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View Full Version : According to Hollinger Nash is the best shooter in the Modern 3 Point Era



Swashcuff
03-09-2010, 08:46 PM
I really am not a huge fan of Hollinger but I really have to agree with him on this list. Nice one :clap:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/ ... iem-100309


I simply added a player's 2-point, 3-point and free throw percentages. We'll call this "Combined Shooting Rating," or CSR for short.

CSR works for a few reasons. First, the free throw is a pretty fair arbiter of shooting ability. It's the only true apples-to-apples measurement we have, because it's always 15 feet from the hoop and unguarded, regardless of what system the team runs or how the player is used. It's only one shot among many that need to be in a player's arsenal, but it's an important one.

Second, the yin and yang of 2-point and 3-point ability balance each other out. Some players are more effective midrange shooters than long-range marksmen, while others are more comfortable bombing away. And using this method makes the system more fair to players from the 1980s and early '90s, when teams didn't utilize the 3 as often or as effectively.


Top All-Time Shooters By CSR
Player 2-Pt% 3-Pt% FT% CSR
Steve Nash .515 .431 .903 1.849
Steve Kerr .494 .454 .864 1.812
Reggie Miller .525 .395 .888 1.807
Mark Price .501 .402 .904 1.807
Jeff Hornacek .515 .403 .877 1.795
Chris Mullin .533 .384 .865 1.783
Peja Stojakovic .485 .400 .895 1.779
Larry Bird .509 .376 .886 1.770
Ray Allen .482 .396 .893 1.770
Dana Barros .488 .411 .858 1.757

Min. 10,000 career minutes

That's right: Steve Nash. By a mile.

I've always written that his shooting is his most underappreciated skill, but even so, this blows me away.


Finally, two young players on the Golden State Warriors have established a great chance of finishing their careers near the top of this list. Rookie Stephen Curry is at 1.770 thus far in his brief career, and should that number hold up, he'll finish his career in the top 10. Since players' shooting often improves dramatically in their second through fifth seasons, he could finish as one of the top-ranked players of all time.

Then again, he also might finish second among current Warriors. Curry's teammate, Anthony Morrow, has played two NBA seasons as a part-time starter, and posted career marks of 48.8 percent on 2s, 45.9 percent on 3s and 87.6 percent from the line. That's good for a CSR of 1.822, which is better than every other player in history except Nash.

I certainly see a player like Anthony Morrow becoming one of the better shooters in NBA history.

How else do you guys think currently in the league can get up there?

Duncan = Donkey
03-09-2010, 08:48 PM
even without looking at the stats, ive always considered nash the best shooter in the league

Ollie Tabooger
03-09-2010, 08:54 PM
Yeah I think nash is the best three point shooter in the league. Dirk is the best overall shooter imo.

HoopsDrive
03-09-2010, 08:54 PM
Yeah, Nash is maybe the best overall shooter. He's so efficient it's scary.

asandhu23
03-09-2010, 08:55 PM
somewhere Anthony Morrow is :facepalm: ing

Duncan = Donkey
03-09-2010, 09:00 PM
Why would Morrow be facepalming????

TheKing23
03-09-2010, 09:02 PM
I love me some Steve Nash.

His incredible shooting i'd say is partly due to his form. It's so smooth and textbook, it's the same every time . He doesn't need to exert a huge amount of energy as well.

Swashcuff
03-09-2010, 09:03 PM
Why would Morrow be facepalming????

x2

tredigs
03-09-2010, 09:09 PM
Nash has been doing it for so long, he has to be considered the best.

But, the best shooter in the league is Anthony Morrow, and I don't see that ever changing while he's still in it. He'll average somewhere around 48-50% FG, 45% 3p, 90%+ line. Barring something unforeseen, it will be hard to argue him not being the best pure shooter of all time. He just has it.

The runner up for best shooter in the coming generation has to be Durant. He'll probably average somewhere around 48-50% FG, 88-90% line, 40-44% from three. I think he's still in the upper 30's percentage wise from three this year, but a lot of that is because of his ridiculous poor first few weeks from three. But he averaged 42% from three last year, and since the first few weeks this year, he's been in the 40's (47% last 2+ months).

Honorable mention to Dirk.

Sadds The Gr8
03-09-2010, 09:13 PM
I always thought he was the best shooter in the league. Capt Canada!

bigsams50
03-09-2010, 09:18 PM
why would morrow be facepalming????

x3

Shady66
03-09-2010, 09:20 PM
somewhere Anthony Morrow is :facepalm: ing

Its a list over 10 000 minutes

Ollie Tabooger
03-09-2010, 09:24 PM
Why would Morrow be facepalming????

x4

td0tsfinest
03-09-2010, 09:25 PM
I agree. He's got a beautiful stroke and deadly from beyond the arc. He always have to keep an eye on him when he's bringing up the ball because he'll just drop a 3 ball right there.

Nirvanaskurdt
03-09-2010, 09:25 PM
Nash is the best :)

Swashcuff
03-09-2010, 09:51 PM
I think the only knock I will have on Nash's shot (its really not knock on his shot but) is that he's never had that play off career defining game winning jumper (preferably a 3) like Reggie , Ray and some of the other greats.

Duncan = Donkey
03-09-2010, 10:46 PM
Nash is going for his 4th year straight of 50% FG, 40% 3p, 90% FT.
Thats just ridiclious, i dont see anyone right now who will break that.
Maybe Durrant, but very very unlikely.

Bashna
03-09-2010, 10:51 PM
I think the only knock I will have on Nash's shot (its really not knock on his shot but) is that he's never had that play off career defining game winning jumper (preferably a 3) like Reggie , Ray and some of the other greats.

According to this Logic, Robert horry is the G.O.A.T.... Which angers me greatly. Think before you post <3

ManRam
03-09-2010, 10:55 PM
I certainly wouldn't argue against him. His percentages for a PG have been through the roof. Simply amazing. He's one of the 3 best offensive PGs ever IMO.

RadiantShot
03-09-2010, 10:57 PM
Lol. People love Morrow's nuts as of late. Someone tell me what flavor they are. :rolleyes:

I agree. Nash is probably the most consistent 3 point shooter, as well as the best that shoot's 3's.

It's scary to see him shoot a 3. It's always going in.

Swashcuff
03-09-2010, 11:00 PM
According to this Logic, Robert horry is the G.O.A.T.... Which angers me greatly. Think before you post <3

what the hell are you talking about. I am just saying that Nash doesn't have one. Nothing about logic. I agree 100% with Nash being the best.

Hawkeye15
03-09-2010, 11:02 PM
well, there was a minimum criteria of 10,000 minutes played, which sets apart the spot up shooters who come and go from the real shooters.
Steve Nash hits an incredible amount of his shots off pull ups too, which is incredible. If he could defend anyone, he would be a top 20 player ever by the time he is done.
Unreal shooter. I knew Mark Price would be on that list before I even opened it. And Dana Barros, wow. For those of you who are too young to have watched him, great shooter. I thought Del Curry would be on there too, but nope

FlakeyFool
03-09-2010, 11:02 PM
I certainly wouldn't argue against him. His percentages for a PG have been through the roof. Simply amazing. He's one of the 3 best offensive PGs ever IMO.

this

_KB24_
03-09-2010, 11:12 PM
I can't help not picking Reggie. He's still the best.

RadiantShot
03-09-2010, 11:14 PM
I can't help not picking Reggie. He's still the best.

:facepalm:

tredigs
03-09-2010, 11:16 PM
Lol. People love Morrow's nuts as of late. Someone tell me what flavor they are. :rolleyes:

I agree. Nash is probably the most consistent 3 point shooter, as well as the best that shoot's 3's.

It's scary to see him shoot a 3. It's always going in.

Hey, I've been on his nuts since day 1. Wait... what?

Hardwood Paroxysm's take on it:
http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/03/09/lion-facelemon-face-03-09-2010-the-knicks-played-defense-edition/


Lion Face: Anthony Morrow
This guy is the best outside shooter in the NBA. Itís not Ray Allen. Itís not Steve Nash. Itís not Paul Pierce much to his chagrin. Itís not even Dirk Nowitzki who Iíd bet my life on making the next jumper. Itís Anthony Morrow. We all remember the tale of his existence. Heís pure like snow. Heís pure like virgin snow. I canít believe his jumper is not butter. He had 28 points in an OK Corral-level shootout with the Hornets Monday night. It came on 11/13 shooting with 6/6 from deep. 16 of his points and four of his threes came in the fourth quarter. He was a perfect 7/7 from the field in the second half and helped lead the Warriors in a second half shooting display of making 28 of their 40 attempts. Anthony Morrow made everything look effortless and if the defense hadnít clung to his jersey on the final possessions, he probably would have won the game.

And that's one of the smartest basketball sites on the planet right now. I'm glad they agree with me.

ElMarroAfamado
03-09-2010, 11:24 PM
i have seen Nash play since he plays in the same division as the CLippers and the Lakers
and boy im not gonna lie the guy is great....
its like he shoots 90% all game and honestly im surprised when he does miss
if you watch him consistently enough you will say to yourself "damn does this guy ever miss?"

SteveNash
03-10-2010, 12:08 AM
Poor effort by Hollinger 2p%+3p%+FT% is really weak...

Meth
03-10-2010, 12:30 AM
Almost everybody who agrees Morrow is the best 3pt shooter are Warrior fans.
But since I've been watching Warrior's games a lot lately (Business) , Anthony Morrow is the best shooter in the league, no joke.

Hawkeye15
03-10-2010, 12:39 AM
Almost everybody who agrees Morrow is the best 3pt shooter are Warrior fans.
But since I've been watching Warrior's games a lot lately (Business) , Anthony Morrow is the best shooter in the league, no joke.

no, he is not.

Bashna
03-10-2010, 12:47 AM
what the hell are you talking about. I am just saying that Nash doesn't have one. Nothing about logic. I agree 100% with Nash being the best.


LOL, nothing about logic aye?

So you're saying the comment you made previously was illogical? well, anyways, what i was trying to say was based off what you previously said. Which was "he's never had that play off career defining game winning jumper" and this is what great shooters/players have (I.E reggie, ray allen) but what i was trying to deduce from this, is if you take EXACTLY what you said, and apply it elsewhere around the league, than we conclude that Robert horry, who had multiple if not the most Big-time shots in the league, is the best shooter in the modern era, which is VERY VERY VERY wrong. All i was saying was, you're "logic" or as you pointed out, lack thereof is flawed.

Miltown34
03-10-2010, 01:02 AM
You guys would think Nash is the Greatest shooter of all time....naw naw Nash is the greatest shooter of all time :)

Shady66
03-10-2010, 01:43 AM
Almost everybody who agrees Morrow is the best 3pt shooter are Warrior fans.
But since I've been watching Warrior's games a lot lately (Business) , Anthony Morrow is the best shooter in the league, no joke.

Hes the best knockdown shooter, or at worst top 5, but all the great shooters of today hit shots fading to the right, to the left shots that look impossible but go in. Something Nash, Allen and other great shooters do regularly, from what iv seen from Morrow, hes just a knockdown shooter, but a great one.

montazingmvp
03-10-2010, 01:54 AM
no, he is not.

great retort...

but seriously atleast explain yourself...
and when you make the claim it almost seems as if the notion or thought that he might be is ridiculous...which it is not...

if he's not the best, he's top 5

PLAYERS FAN
03-10-2010, 02:12 AM
He is the best shooter I ever seen in the NBA.

nyballa1991
03-10-2010, 02:19 AM
i dont watch the suns much, but when i do it seems like nash picks his spots. If he chucked up the shots reggie miller and ray allen do while contested i think he'd be much lower on the list imo

tredigs
03-10-2010, 02:28 AM
Almost everybody who agrees Morrow is the best 3pt shooter are Warrior fans.
But since I've been watching Warrior's games a lot lately (Business) , Anthony Morrow is the best shooter in the league, no joke.

That's a fair statement. I mean I'm an unabashed Warriors fan, and I couldn't be any higher on Morrow's shooting abilities. But, you have to realize that most people probably just don't know much about the kid yet unless they're a Dubs fan. We don't get National TV coverage, and when they're on SportsCenter, it's all about Monta and Curry.

I like to think of myself as a pretty objective fan though. For example, I think that the combination of Nellies coaching style and Monta's unwillingness to move within the flow of an offense are a cancer to the team, and both need to be chemo'd the fawk outta dodge. But, the fact remains, if you watch the Warriors play more than 4 or 5 games, you will leave realizing Morrow is the best pure shooter in basketball. And with the way his pump-fake pull ups, pump fake slashes to the hoop, and fadeaways are starting to develop, he's going to be a huge piece on a lucky team in the near future. I hope it's ours...

Chronz
03-10-2010, 02:51 AM
hollinger predicts both morrow and curry to make the list down the road.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 06:26 AM
LOL, nothing about logic aye?

So you're saying the comment you made previously was illogical? well, anyways, what i was trying to say was based off what you previously said. Which was "he's never had that play off career defining game winning jumper" and this is what great shooters/players have (I.E reggie, ray allen) but what i was trying to deduce from this, is if you take EXACTLY what you said, and apply it elsewhere around the league, than we conclude that Robert horry, who had multiple if not the most Big-time shots in the league, is the best shooter in the modern era, which is VERY VERY VERY wrong. All i was saying was, you're "logic" or as you pointed out, lack thereof is flawed.

debating this with you makes no sense. I AM NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM NASH. I am just saying that he doesn't have one. Where you get Horry Being the G.O.A.T. frm that statement is beyond me. Sigh!

ajj22
03-10-2010, 07:47 AM
So, because Swashcuff said Nash didn't have a big shot in the playoffs, suddenly you twist that into him saying Horry is the G.O.A.T? And you're accusing him of poor logic?

My one knock on Shaq as a basketball player is that he's a poor free throw shooter. I don't think that statement should "logically" nominate Mark Price as the greatest player to ever step foot on the hardwood.

ps - Steve Nash is awesome.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 11:09 AM
So, because Swashcuff said Nash didn't have a big shot in the playoffs, suddenly you twist that into him saying Horry is the G.O.A.T? And you're accusing him of poor logic?

My one knock on Shaq as a basketball player is that he's a poor free throw shooter. I don't think that statement should "logically" nominate Mark Price as the greatest player to ever step foot on the hardwood.

ps - Steve Nash is awesome.

Thank You!

Blackjack24
03-10-2010, 11:53 AM
Just from watching Nash casually, I'd have guessed he was high on this list-- but it still surprised me a little to see him #1. The season where he cracks 50/40/90-- that'll be when he gets the credit he deserves.

Unless he already has, and I'm clueless. Always a possibility.

Hawkeye15
03-10-2010, 01:11 PM
great retort...

but seriously atleast explain yourself...
and when you make the claim it almost seems as if the notion or thought that he might be is ridiculous...which it is not...

if he's not the best, he's top 5

the statement needs no explanation. But players like Nash, or Ray Allen, shoot contested shots nightly, take shots late in the shotclock when their teams breaks down, shoot off the dribble, etc.
Morrow is a spot up shooter, who lets the shots come to him. He doesnt drive and pullup with frequency. He is a typical spot up shooter. They don't get the nod over guys who can still hit at that clip while playing big minutes, shooting off the dribble, and having to force up attempts. No way
basically put, if Nash ONLY sat on the three point line and chucked when the ball came to him off a rotation pass, he would be a 70% shooter or something ridiculous.

Hawkeye15
03-10-2010, 01:12 PM
hollinger predicts both morrow and curry to make the list down the road.

there you go Morrow fans. But he isn't shooting at Nash's clip, who is still currently playing.

Niro
03-10-2010, 01:58 PM
hmm i think morrow is the best right now

nash and curry top 5

cantstopthee
03-10-2010, 02:09 PM
I agree.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 02:16 PM
Just from watching Nash casually, I'd have guessed he was high on this list-- but it still surprised me a little to see him #1. The season where he cracks 50/40/90-- that'll be when he gets the credit he deserves.

Unless he already has, and I'm clueless. Always a possibility.

He's done it 4 times and came very very close two other times. Credit deserved? Sigh!

J-Relo
03-10-2010, 03:06 PM
Nash is doing it...

montazingmvp
03-10-2010, 03:25 PM
That's a fair statement. I mean I'm an unabashed Warriors fan, and I couldn't be any higher on Morrow's shooting abilities. But, you have to realize that most people probably just don't know much about the kid yet unless they're a Dubs fan. We don't get National TV coverage, and when they're on SportsCenter, it's all about Monta and Curry.

I like to think of myself as a pretty objective fan though. For example, I think that the combination of Nellies coaching style and Monta's unwillingness to move within the flow of an offense are a cancer to the team, and both need to be chemo'd the fawk outta dodge. But, the fact remains, if you watch the Warriors play more than 4 or 5 games, you will leave realizing Morrow is the best pure shooter in basketball. And with the way his pump-fake pull ups, pump fake slashes to the hoop, and fadeaways are starting to develop, he's going to be a huge piece on a lucky team in the near future. I hope it's ours...

disagree here.

monta has proven in his career that he is fully willing to play within the flow of the offense...

all blame to monta's overshooting goes the nelly imo...

nelly's offense this year is even more unorganized than ever. there is no offensive discipline whatsoever...if you want to take a shot, then you will and there will be no consequences no matter how poor of a shot it is...

monta has nobody to defer to, which is really when he's at his best. and when he's playing winning basketball.

this is the first year in his career in which monta has been a ball hog. and i entirely blame nelly for it.

the offense this entire year has been get the first shot you can...thats not winning bball

montazingmvp
03-10-2010, 03:28 PM
the statement needs no explanation. But players like Nash, or Ray Allen, shoot contested shots nightly, take shots late in the shotclock when their teams breaks down, shoot off the dribble, etc.
Morrow is a spot up shooter, who lets the shots come to him. He doesnt drive and pullup with frequency. He is a typical spot up shooter. They don't get the nod over guys who can still hit at that clip while playing big minutes, shooting off the dribble, and having to force up attempts. No way
basically put, if Nash ONLY sat on the three point line and chucked when the ball came to him off a rotation pass, he would be a 70% shooter or something ridiculous.

ray allen at this point in his career is basically a spot up shooter...

he runs around screens to his spot and then shoots...little dribbling involved the majority of the time much like morrow

MJ-BULLS
03-10-2010, 03:39 PM
I can agree with that Nash has some great shooting mechanics and form.

but Anthony morrow is also real good too.

tredigs
03-10-2010, 03:47 PM
disagree here.

monta has proven in his career that he is fully willing to play within the flow of the offense...

all blame to monta's overshooting goes the nelly imo...

nelly's offense this year is even more unorganized than ever. there is no offensive discipline whatsoever...if you want to take a shot, then you will and there will be no consequences no matter how poor of a shot it is...

monta has nobody to defer to, which is really when he's at his best. and when he's playing winning basketball.

this is the first year in his career in which monta has been a ball hog. and i entirely blame nelly for it.

the offense this entire year has been get the first shot you can...thats not winning bball

I agree with you to an extent; that Monta IS capable and willing to play within the flow of the offense, and when he does so he's a much, much more valuable player (he's actually a negative impact player this year, only need to go as far as to check his +- or efficiency ratings to see that. Or better yet watch them play). But this is only the case when he feels like the second fiddle on the team, and that is completely ridiculously unacceptable.

But, I also agree that most of the blame has to fall on Nellie, just not ALL of it. Monta needs to be the leader that he is capable of (even though he came right out and said he doesn't want that role, which tells you a lot about him) and actually distribute the ball on his own accord. To say he has "nobody to defer to" is ridiculous, especially in a thread that is talking about Morrow being one of the best pure shooters in the NBA, and also being that we have a top 2 rookie/best shooting rookie/playmaker in the league on our team.

The injuries have made everything a complete mess, and Nellie has helped less than none, but Monta can't just be left off the hook entirely. Dude needs to trust his teammates more and actually move the ball around to create open looks and something that actually resembles a real offense (like it does when he's gone).