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View Full Version : Kenyon Martin the last College Senior to be drafted # 1 overall?



Swashcuff
03-09-2010, 02:33 PM
He was drafted 1st partly because of how weak the 2000 draft was. My question is to you guys do you see anyone spending 4 years in college, developing their game, gaining the experience of playing college basketball and being drafted 1st in the future or do you see those top players all coming out for the NBA early. The top talents (Carmelo, Oden, Durant etc) all leave these early and so will Wall, Cousins etc (assuming). Does anyone think it will ever happen again where a guy stays four years in college and becomes the #1 overall pick? Or will this trend of ˝ years and done continue?

Boston-Born
03-09-2010, 02:40 PM
Never again

hoopitup
03-09-2010, 02:43 PM
maybe evan turner if he returns

jetsfan28
03-09-2010, 02:43 PM
It will at least happen one more time. I mean, if Turner's injury had been a season ending one, he could have been the #1 pick next year.

CityofTreez
03-09-2010, 02:54 PM
I believe so. I do get a laugh at how seniors are portrayed nowadays in the NBA draft! Their value is questionable because their age plays a factor in assessing their potential/future in the NBA

If there wasn't this whole worshipping of John Wall, then I think Sherron Collins could've proved he was a worthy #1 pick after this years March Madness results. (huge kansas fan, so being a lil biased).

mikantsass
03-09-2010, 03:03 PM
Only way that happens again is if the NBA raises the age limit

clehmun
03-09-2010, 03:05 PM
If there are enough junior busts, there'll be more seniors taken higher. It all depends on the players too. Most want to start their careers earlier, and you can't blame them. Who wouldn't want 3 Million a year when you're 19 years old?

Swashcuff
03-09-2010, 03:12 PM
I dunno if he is gonna stay true but Cole Aldrich was noted as saying he'd like to finish college before pursuing an NBA career

AI4MVP
03-09-2010, 03:15 PM
i really really doubt it.

CityofTreez
03-09-2010, 03:19 PM
I dunno if he is gonna stay true but Cole Aldrich was noted as saying he'd like to finish college before pursuing an NBA career

Nah. he made a pcat with Sherron Collins this year to win a NCAA National Championship. Since they are :D, he will prolly declare since his stats are off the roof and the tournament will force him to enter the draft!

But, he could come back because kansas can still compete for a Championship next year even without Henry/Collins.

anything can happen, but I believe he wil be wearing an NBA jersey next year.

valpo34
03-09-2010, 03:28 PM
of course there will be. people get injured and stay extra becouse of that and lots of other reasons. Evan Turner could stay for his sr. year still. it would be dumb but he could. Tim Duncan stayed all 4 years even though he would have been a high pick. that could easily happen again. some people want to stay. i dont think its usually the best decision but if they want to they can.

R_O_W_E
03-09-2010, 03:40 PM
I think Greg Monroe has the potential to stay 4 years, the fact he didn't even test the waters last year despite being considered a Top 5 pick says a lot. Usually highly rated guys after their freshman year will atleast test the waters.

Harrison Barnes has mentioned that he would like to graduate from college and leave as one of the most decorated players in UNC history.

What is with this disrespect for Kenyon Martin? If you guys are too ignorant to realize that Martin was a Blake Griffin-like dominant player in college before he broke his leg in the C-USA tournament. Despite the injury he still was viewed as the consensus #1 pick.

shep33
03-09-2010, 03:44 PM
No way. Its sad but think about already, it hasn't happend in a decade already, and basketball has become a game where superstars are discovered before their 18, kinda like Soccer in europe who scout out 13-15 year olds. NBA is the same now, the best players are guys who go for a 1 and done in college, and I don't think its gonna change anytime soon.

Why would it? We aren't gonna get guys like Duncan who stay in college anymore, cause lets face it when your 17-19 years old and some rich fat guy says "hey kid you want tens of millions of dollars?", at that age its almost impossible to turn down, cause there is more risk then reward in staying in school in the minds of these kids. Injuries, teams in college specifically designing defenses which will drop your stats, all sorts of things can happen to decrease the monetary potential that a kid can earn.

MJ-BULLS
03-09-2010, 03:48 PM
never say never.

it could happen, it just hasn't happen in a long time. im pretty sure it will happen again though. i mean there could be players like Brandon Roy later to come out of college, those players that decide to stay and develop their game.

shep33
03-09-2010, 03:53 PM
never say never.

it could happen, it just hasn't happen in a long time. im pretty sure it will happen again though. i mean there could be players like Brandon Roy later to come out of college, those players that decide to stay and develop their game.

Yeah i mean its very slim, but at the same time there is almost 1-2 stud one and done players each year that will get selected before a senior. And like I said before, not many superstars/great college players are gonna stay for that senior year, cause the money and endorsements that go along with being the #1 pick is almost impossible to resist.

td0tsfinest
03-09-2010, 04:15 PM
There could be seniors that are drafted and end up being a good players in the league but I just don't seem them being picked first overall. At the end of the day, all these kids want to be pro's and make money and if they're a top prospect like Rose, Oden and Durant were, they going to enter the draft.

A lot of the guys that stay back are guys that believe their stock could be higher. In some situation it works out and in others it doesn't.

Big Quett
03-09-2010, 04:20 PM
I believe so. I do get a laugh at how seniors are portrayed nowadays in the NBA draft! Their value is questionable because their age plays a factor in assessing their potential/future in the NBA

If there wasn't this whole worshipping of John Wall, then I think Sherron Collins could've proved he was a worthy #1 pick after this years March Madness results. (huge kansas fan, so being a lil biased).

Biased? Really?:facepalm: I like Collins but he was NEVER going to be the #1 pick. I cant even find a any mock draft that has him even in the 1st round.

But again you can never say never about a senior being the #1 pick. But its not at all probable. I mean if i had to bet everything 1 way or another i would bet no. People look at seniors like something is wrong with them. They figure if you stayed that long something must be wrong. And the longer you stay in college the more your flaws show and people second guess you.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2010, 04:38 PM
I think it is unlikely, but sometimes situations arise. Some guys want to stay in college all four years. You get gusy like Grant Hill, Sahne Battier, they sign to teams like Duke, or North Carolina because they respect the history of those programs and want to make a statement about their approach to life and to the game. Sadly these guys are often over shadowed by the young guys who have a good tournament or get a lot fo buzz. Battier was the safe pick the year Kawmbe Brown got drafted number one, and though he make not have been a legit 1st overall pick, there was at least one far less talented player drafted ahead of him (Kwambe and Eddy Curry certainly had the young-big-man buzz going for them).

One trend we will likely see is players going overseas instead of college. And players who have a lot of hype coming out of highschool need only carry their success over for one year in college to keep their status high in the draft, but guys who take a year to earn minutes and face and injury may see much value in staying their senoir year.

It may happen again, but it is highly unlikely. Not only do players leave earlier than ever, but team are more often looking to draft over seas players in hopes of finding the next Dirk or Gasol.

heathonater
03-09-2010, 05:37 PM
not likely until this one and done rule is removed. the top nba prospects wont stay in college for two years to risk injury and sliding down a few picks. this one and done rule should be removed, and they should either allow high school players to go pro or implement a two year minimum for college.

CityofTreez
03-09-2010, 06:05 PM
Biased? Really?:facepalm: I like Collins but he was NEVER going to be the #1 pick. I cant even find a any mock draft that has him even in the 1st round.

That's my argument. kansas & kentucky can go to the Championship game and Sherron Collins will outperform john wall and win the game, but experts will still rank Wall above Collins. Even though, Collins resume is leagues better than wall, it doesn't matter, John wall is the next coming of Christ and is going to be #1 pick no matter what!

I thought Collins could go #1 pick after last season concluded. I didn't know who Wall was and Turner was making a name for himself at the time. I'm just saying, I thought Collins could've pushed this debate that no more seniors would go #1 again, but my argument dates back to 8 months ago.

THE MTL
03-09-2010, 06:36 PM
I dont wanna say it wont ever happen again. But honestly the only reason why players stay in college so long is because they are not good enough in their early yrs to be projected in the first round.

PLayers are drafted on potential and college seniors potential isnt as high as a college freshmen/sophomore. Plus playing two years in the NBA as opposed to completing the two yrs of college is foolish cause u miss out on millions of dollars and the NBA experience in better anyway.

Swashcuff
03-09-2010, 06:55 PM
The last highly touted potentially number 1 who people thought may have stayed till he graduated was Joakim Noah and it was partly because of his family's wealth. That obviously will have a major factor to play and now basketball is as much a business as a sport. Guys want to make lots of money and the earlier they come out the more they stand to make.

Kakaroach
03-09-2010, 06:55 PM
It could happen if someone jumps up like crazy in their senior year or had a season-ending injury in their jr year.

Still its very very unlikely it will happen again.

Swashcuff
03-09-2010, 06:58 PM
I think Greg Monroe has the potential to stay 4 years, the fact he didn't even test the waters last year despite being considered a Top 5 pick says a lot. Usually highly rated guys after their freshman year will atleast test the waters.

Harrison Barnes has mentioned that he would like to graduate from college and leave as one of the most decorated players in UNC history.

What is with this disrespect for Kenyon Martin? If you guys are too ignorant to realize that Martin was a Blake Griffin-like dominant player in college before he broke his leg in the C-USA tournament. Despite the injury he still was viewed as the consensus #1 pick.

he was a very good defensive centre and that's basically all he had on Blake Griffin. Griffin type not so much. In most other drafts this decade K-Mart would not have been chosen #1 some not even top 5. Nobody is disrespecting the guy it is the truth.

mzgrizz
03-10-2010, 12:21 AM
KMart is very likely the last . One and done is ruling the NCAA now.

arkanian215
03-10-2010, 12:28 AM
maybe a late bloomer or transfer.

willthethrill22
03-10-2010, 12:40 AM
the one and done trend has ruined Collage Basketball

GOON MUSIC
03-10-2010, 12:40 AM
I Doubt It

Hellcrooner
03-10-2010, 12:43 AM
Unlikely it would need to be some kind of player who was absolutely great on the court and that also was absolutely great with his books and loved them and had the brains to think is good finishing his studies because he can be an asbolute succes in life with his career .

Basically if there is someone out there with Jordans skills and Bill Gates mind it may happen

Hellcrooner
03-10-2010, 12:47 AM
Also forget about league raising the age limit.

In any case they will eliminate it.

I dont know if you read an interview with Sonny Vaccaro a while ago in espn.

basically he told that he orchestated all the Jennings to europe thing to show the Nba that it is a viable option that players can get same succes going to europe and then enetering nba than plaing in ncaa and they lso GET PAID for it.


So league cant afford now to raise the limit because tha twould mean a LOT more of the talents woudl preffer to go to europe and count their Euros before playing fo rfree in nccaa and risking to a career ending injury for nothing.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 11:10 AM
Unlikely it would need to be some kind of player who was absolutely great on the court and that also was absolutely great with his books and loved them and had the brains to think is good finishing his studies because he can be an asbolute succes in life with his career .

Basically if there is someone out there with Jordans skills and Bill Gates mind it may happen

We all know that ain't happening.

chitown4eva88
03-10-2010, 11:30 AM
I think that the NBA needs to make these kids go to school all 4 years. The reason being that the NBA is not guaranteed, what happens if you do not get picked what will you do then? You will go back to school and have to pay all that money out of pocket and with tuition prices now a day’s good luck. Or say that you do make it and you’re at the end of the bench, more than likely you blew all your money on nice things instead of saving it. Another reason what if you get hurt and cannot play anymore then what, but if you stay in school and get your degree at least you will have something to fall back on.

Hellcrooner
03-10-2010, 11:45 AM
I think that the NBA needs to make these kids go to school all 4 years.

Yes please.

It wil be fun to see how 9 out of each 10 of the top Usa young players decide to spend those 4 years winning money in europe.

R_O_W_E
03-10-2010, 11:55 AM
Unlikely it would need to be some kind of player who was absolutely great on the court and that also was absolutely great with his books and loved them and had the brains to think is good finishing his studies because he can be an asbolute succes in life with his career .

Basically if there is someone out there with Jordans skills and Bill Gates mind it may happen

You're kinda overexaggerating with what they need.

Thats why I mentioned Harrison Barnes, I wouldn't be surprised if he graduated in 3 years rather than 4.

R_O_W_E
03-10-2010, 12:01 PM
he was a very good defensive centre and that's basically all he had on Blake Griffin. Griffin type not so much. In most other drafts this decade K-Mart would not have been chosen #1 some not even top 5. Nobody is disrespecting the guy it is the truth.

Great analysis Sherlock.

Im pretty sure in most other Drafts this decade Derrick Rose wouldn't have gone #1.:rolleyes:

Kenyon Martin was just a very good defensive center? He was good on both offense and defense, experienced with 4 years under Huggins' coaching, a leader on both offense and defense, and was once a great athlete aswell. Theres a clear difference also, Martin was held back for the simple fact he played with 5 "NBA Drafted" players in Satterfield, Johnson, Mickael, Logan, and Levett. Name me more than 2 players from Oklahoma's team with Griffin that will ever be drafted?

mrblisterdundee
03-10-2010, 12:41 PM
Athletes usually don't value their education enough to go for the Bachelor's degree, but the first pick is all dependent on who's the best. If the best player by far happens to be a senior, then it could definitely happen again.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 02:19 PM
Great analysis Sherlock.

Im pretty sure in most other Drafts this decade Derrick Rose wouldn't have gone #1.:rolleyes:

Kenyon Martin was just a very good defensive center? He was good on both offense and defense, experienced with 4 years under Huggins' coaching, a leader on both offense and defense, and was once a great athlete aswell. Theres a clear difference also, Martin was held back for the simple fact he played with 5 "NBA Drafted" players in Satterfield, Johnson, Mickael, Logan, and Levett. Name me more than 2 players from Oklahoma's team with Griffin that will ever be drafted?

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: i was saying that he was a better defender that blake was. Not on offense. You are being a K-Mart tool. What has transpired with his NBA career. 1 All-Star game. The guy is a very very good player but you are acting as if he was Tim Duncan or something.

C_Mund
03-10-2010, 03:20 PM
he was a very good defensive centre and that's basically all he had on Blake Griffin. Griffin type not so much. In most other drafts this decade K-Mart would not have been chosen #1 some not even top 5. Nobody is disrespecting the guy it is the truth.

I have to disagree with you. If it wasn't for the microfracture, Martin could have been one of the best pf's of the last decade. He's still a defensive wall and he's a huge part of Denver's recent resurgence.
Check out his old dunks on youtube from his Nets days...I still have a K-Mart new jersey...uh...jersey.

Swashcuff
03-10-2010, 05:10 PM
I have to disagree with you. If it wasn't for the microfracture, Martin could have been one of the best pf's of the last decade. He's still a defensive wall and he's a huge part of Denver's recent resurgence.
Check out his old dunks on youtube from his Nets days...I still have a K-Mart new jersey...uh...jersey.

I am in no way saying K-Mart wasn't a good player. He is one of the better defensive PF in the NBA. He was also a legitimate offensive threat. There is no denying that. But coming out of college he was not as good as Blake Griffin was. That's the point I am trying to make. Kenyon's stellar offensive numbers in NJ was partly a result of Jason Kidd and the system that the Nets ran. Not taking anything away from him, he is a fantastic player but coming out of college he wasn't seen to have the upside that Blake Griffin did. That's just the point I was trying to relay to the other poster but apparently he thought I was calling K-Mart a scrub or something. He was a much better defender but was not seen to have the upside otherwise that Blake had/has.

C_Mund
03-10-2010, 05:21 PM
I am in no way saying K-Mart wasn't a good player. He is one of the better defensive PF in the NBA. He was also a legitimate offensive threat. There is no denying that. But coming out of college he was not as good as Blake Griffin was. That's the point I am trying to make. Kenyon's stellar offensive numbers in NJ was partly a result of Jason Kidd and the system that the Nets ran. Not taking anything away from him, he is a fantastic player but coming out of college he wasn't seen to have the upside that Blake Griffin did. That's just the point I was trying to relay to the other poster but apparently he thought I was calling K-Mart a scrub or something. He was a much better defender but was not seen to have the upside otherwise that Blake had/has.

I see what you're sayin, and I can kinda agree on that!

masalex1205
03-10-2010, 05:26 PM
Ever? Sure, there could be a player whose family doesn't need the money, like his dad is a doctor or something. Regardless you can't blame these kids for coming out early, I would too