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View Full Version : NBA Mock Deadline FINALS - Orlando Magic vs Denver Nuggets



BlondeBomber41
03-08-2010, 07:38 PM
This season we did a mock trade deadline in which users on this site took over as GM's of every team in the NBA. The goal was to improve your team the most before the real life trade deadline. The users then voted on playoff seedings of the other conference, and now its up to you to vote for who wins each matchup.

Please remember that this is just a game and there is no reason to vote for a team just because thats actually your favorite team in real life. Everybody worked really hard on their teams and it's only fair that you judge each team based on that teams talent, not that teams name.

At the bottom each team has sent in a write up explaining why they feel they would win the series. Please read each writeup before you make your decision, to be fair to the GM's who wrote it.

Orlando has the homecourt advantage due to being the higher seed with the most 1st place votes.


Orlando Magic Lineup:

PG: Rajon Rondo - T.J Ford - Jason Williams - Anthony Johnson
SG: Michael Pietrus - Tony Allen
SF: Paul Pierce - Kyle Korver
PF: Dirk Nowitzki - Ryan Anderson - Etan Thomas
C: Marcus Camby - Etan Thomas - Adonal Foyle


Denver Nuggets Lineup:

PG: Chauncey Billups / Antonio Daniels
SG: Raja Bell / Joey Graham
SF: Carmelo Anthony / Lamar Odom
PF: Antawn Jamison / Anderson Varejao
C: Shaquille O'Neal / Johan Petro




Orlando Magic Writeup:
I want to start this off by talking about a key
matchup off the bench:

Lamar Odom vs. Ryan Anderson

We all know that Odom has the bigger name in this matchup, but I feel that Anderson matches up quite well with him. Anderson is known to be able to spread the defense out with his three point range (35%) and his ability to shoot outside of the box. While Odom is a player who can do many different things, but Anderson should be able to keep up with him. Odom wonít have the luxury of having slower defenders have to guard him outside of the paint because Dirk and Anderson can move around so well.

Now Iíd like to address the starting lineup matchups:

Point Guard Ė Rajon Rondo vs. Chauncey Billups

Both are considered to be in the upper half of the point guard rankings. Rondo doesnít have the many years on his track record, but he has experience in the playoffs. Heís one of the best defensive point guards in the NBA, if not the best. Billups normally likes to post up smaller defenders, but Rondo can also slow him down with his speed. As Billups gets tired his shot has less of a chance falling because his legs are such a part of his jump shot. I feel as if Rondo would be able to wear him down by the end of this series, which would be a huge favor in my advantage.

Shooting Guard Ė Mickael Pietrus vs. Raja Bell

Raja Bell has been injured over the last two seasons, which has been a huge problem. He also lost a step defensively before the injury, which then resulted in him being traded by the Suns. While Pietrus hasnít had the best of his years he still fits pretty perfectly with Pierce on the wings. Heís able to do many different things with his size and length. At this point in both respective careers I would personally take Pietrus every single time out of time, unless Bell was able to come back from that injury and play his outstanding defense, but at this point itís unlikely.

Small Forward Ė Paul Pierce vs. Carmelo Anthony

Both are two of the best small forwards in the entire NBA. Carmelo brings so much scoring to the table; however Pierce has shot quite well from all over the floor this season. Pierce is known to be a very experienced player all around, which is something that Anthony, is still learning even at his age. This is a tough matchup for both players as it involves two of the best players in the NBA.

Power Forward Ė Dirk Nowitzki vs. Antawn Jamison

Dirk is one of the best power forwards in the NBA and has played remarkably well this season. Jamison should be able to stick with him, but even then Dirk will rise above him to do his famous jumper. Dirk also is a very clutch player that can hit any given shot in crunch time. He also has a ton of experience under his belt and should be able to have his way with Jamison who isnít known to play the greatest defense in the world. I love this matchup defensively as Dirk will be able to move around with Jamison and can bang down low, beyond some people thinking he canít. Just the fact that Dirk is the better player is the reason that he will be a key factor in this series. Dirk wonít allow losing another championship with the type of team he has around him this time.

Center Ė Marcus Camby vs. Shaquille O'Neal

Marcus Camby is known to play great defense down in the post, which will help when playing a vet like Shaq. Shaq really hasnít been the same player this season that we have seen in the past, which is proven in his stats this season. At this point I canít see him playing more then 25 MPG, which will throw Anderson Varejao or Johan Petro in at center. If Petro has to play any type of large minutes in this matchup then I canít see the Nuggets having an awesome day down in the post. Ethan Thomas on the other hand at least has proven he can play hustle defense down in the post as he proved with his time with the Wizards when he was putting up 7/5 Ė 5/4 numbers in a larger role.

Iíd like to take a look in depth with every single key bench member:

T.J Ford - He's put up very good numbers in a splitting time type role with the Pacers. He's one of the better backup point guards in the league at this point and someone who can without a doubt run an offense.

Tony Allen - He's a versatile player who brings experience off the bench. He's put up 7/3/2 type numbers this season along with a very solid 50 FG %. He's not the flashy player that fans want, but he gives it 100% for every single minute heís on the court.

Kyle Korver - I understand he's not the greatest defensive player, but he sure can shoot the ball. He will be able to spread the floor and he brings shooting off a normal bench. Korver has lost time with the Jazz this season, but he will be able to perform up to his normal standards with more minutes.

Ryan Anderson - He's super underrated and can spread the defense around. He's able to shoot the three and has a very solid mid range jumper. He was a small part of the Carter trade, but ended up as one of the main bench parts for the Magic. He's put up 9/4 type numbers with good shooting percentages.

Etan Thomas - I understand he doesn't have a huge name, but he brings that high energy off the bench. He brings defense and solid numbers with 4/3 numbers. When he had a larger role with the Wizards when Brendan Haywood went down with an injury he produced 6/6 type numbers. Thomas reminds me of Reggie Evans a few seasons ago with the 76ers, someone who is willing to do all the hard work down in the post.

Jason Williams Ė I realize that heís the third string point guard, but he has played well this season for the Magic. He can come in during any given night and bring shooting off the bench. He also can manage an offense if someone gets in foul trouble during parts of the game. He brings more experience off the bench, which you canít get enough of in the playoffs.

I also have Foyle and Anthony Johnson off the bench to bring leadership and experience.

The Final Result:

I think this will be an awesome matchup in the end, however I think the Magic take this one in a close matchup. I think the the long defense and team ball that is brought to the table will end up to be too much.



Denver Nuggets Writeup:
Nuggets meet Magic in the NBA finals, this is our biggest challenge yet, and we wish them best of luck. If you have been following this year's mock deadlines, I'm pretty sure you've read enough about the long write ups about these Nuggets, so I'll try to keep this short.
The Magic presents a great mixture of offense and defense, featuring a star at PF in Dirk, and at SF in Paul Pierce, along with decent depth in the backcourt. But we feel that we match up pretty well against their strengths.

Billups vs Rondo - This is an interesting matchup. One of the best upcoming PG against one of the best established PG, and arguably the best playoff PG in the league. Both are great defenders, both are great playmakers, but we feel in the finals, Billups have the advantage over Rondo. Billups is a great leader on the court, a former finals MVP, he's experienced and clutch. But more importantly, he's having the best season of his career, showing no signs of slowing down, and even stepping up his game. He knows how to take advantage of Rondo, and that's using his smarts, size, and shot. Because Billups is a great shooter, Rondo must stay close, and that helps Billups get an easier lane to the basket. Using his size, Billups is a great post up PG against guys like Rondo, if Magic double teams, we got great shooters in Melo, Bell, Jamsion to make shots. Billups is also great at going to the line, and making this freethrows, something Rondo still has to work on. Rondo's advantage on Billups is speed, but since he's not known to be a good shooter, Billups will be able to give him some room and take away that advantage.

Melo vs Pietrus, Bell vs Pierce - Another key matchup. IMHO it comes down to two things. Melo is a better player than Pierce, Bell is a better defender/role player than Pietrus. Pierce is still a dangerous threat at this stage of his career, no question about it. But he has become a little inconsistent this season, disappears on some nights, having more and more off nights on the offensive end, just signs of starting to slow down. Pietrus is also having an off year, no longer getting key minutes in the Magic's rotation. He's a decent bench player to have and can provide some good plays on some nights, but clearly isn't a starter in the NBA anymore. Meanwhile Melo is getting better every game, moving up to the top 5 player consideration. Melo is simply unstoppable on offense. Great post moves, one of the best mid range games, great mixture of power and speed to get to the basket, and also improved his 3 pt shooting. Giving Pietrus no chance of stopping him. Bell missed most of the season to nurse a wrist injury, but is healthy for the playoffs. That is blessing in disguise, he got his much needed rest, and can go with fresh legs the whole post season. Prior to having the injury, Bell was playing like his former self, averaging 12-4-2 along with playing great defense. Wrist injuries are not the kind of injuries that can ruin a player's career. Unlike knees, back, ankle injuries; players usually make 100% comebacks with rest, making me to believe this will still be the Raja Bell you saw last year, and the beginning of this year. And that Raja Bell is one of the best defenders in the league someone who can make 3s. Just a great glue guy to have on championship teams. Bell's defense will make Pierce work for his points, and his scoring/shooting ability will make sure Pierce won't be able to take breaks on the defensive end.

Jamison vs Nowitzki - Can't say anything to make you believe this matchup is in our favor, Dirk is clearly the better player. But this isn't a huge mismatch too. Jamison is a legit 20-10 player (although he'll average more like 17-10 on this team because of our depth). He'll make Dirk work on the defensive end since Jamison's a good shooter with 3 point range, has a good midrange game, and is a very good post player. Being a great offensive rebounder (2.6 for his career), Jamison will challenge Dirk to box out every single possession. Dirk is a great offensive player, and an improving defender, but Jamison will get his points. On the defensive end, Jamison, and Odom are two good options to slow Dirk down. Both have the height, length, strength, and speed to match up with Dirk. That is something no other team had in the east to match up with Dirk. I'm not suggesting that Jamison and Odom are two shut down defenders, but they work hard on that end, and won't take any possessions off. We think Jamison + Odom will be able to limit Magic's advantage at PF to a minimum, because Magic are also weak on their back up bigs. Dirk will be able to score against our team, but he'll also have a tough time defending Jamison's versatility on offense, and chase around Odom with his play making ability.

Shaq vs Camby - Although Camby is a great player, and defender, I think this matchup is actually to our advantage. Everyone knows Shaq steps up in the playoffs. Against a light weight, Camby, Shaq would be able to power his way to easy baskets. No one on the Magic has the size to contain Shaq, and Shaq will be able to have 25 very effective minutes a game this series. Camby has been able to play with very good post defenders, or true centers in his career. Kmart, and Nene's post defense made blocking shots easier for Camby on the weakside. And starting beside Kaman also allowed him to stay away from strong/dominant post players and focus on rebounding, and shot blocking. How would playing beside a perimeter, average defender, PF do to Camby's game? Now, I'm not comparing Dirk to L. Aldridge, but when Camby is paired up with another face up, perimeter PF, with an average defensive game, his numbers went down across the board. Camby is not strong enough to stop strong post players from scoring, much less Shaq who's still one of the best post players in the league. Camby's lack of offensive game, would allow Shaq to focus on defending the paint, which he is still capable of. I question Dirk and Camby's ability to play with each other, as much as they look good on paper, history shows that they're best when they're paired up with a different type of player.
Dirk with Dampier and Haywood both strong true Cs who takes space in the paint. Camby played with KMart, Nene, Kaman, Randolph who are all either post up players or strong post defenders.

Denver bench vs Magic bench - I think the luxury of bringing a player of Lamar Odom's calibre off the bench gives us the advantage on the bench as well. On most team, this guy is a starter, 3rd option, who can easily average 15-10-5. But in order to win a championship team, Odom needs to play as a 6th man, where he is one of the best there is. With the Magic's weak front court depth, Odom would be able to excel against their backup bigs, or take advantage of the Magic's starters coming fresh off the bench when they've already logged heavy minutes. We also have another great energy player, and active defender in Varejao to help defend Dirk, take rebounds away from Camby, and match up with Etan Thomas, Foyle, the Magic's backup Cs. He's also there to give Shaq a legit backup, so he can be very effective with the minutes he gets. But I'll also give credit to the Magic for having a pretty good bench themselves. TJ Ford, J-Will, Korver are all good backups. But with Rondo being their youngest player in the lineup, how much minutes will Ford and Williams play? Neither can be effective SGs, and both would enhance our advantage on PG. We feel their best bench players will be watching most of the game on the bench, while ours can work much better together as a team.

In conclusion, as good as the Magic look on paper, we do question their ability to click as a team. Will Camby and Dirk work together as both are more comfortable facing the basket. Will their bench get enough minutes as they're backing up the player who needs the least amount of rest. In the playoffs, it's important to have a strong 7-8 man rotation, since the stars will log most of the minutes. And we believe we have the better 7-8 man rotation to win the series. Our versatility on offense and defense gives us an edge in the series.

ManRam
03-08-2010, 07:40 PM
Denver...mainly because of their bench. I trust Chauncey and Melo to hit the big shots. They are the better all-around defensive team as well.

Westbrook36
03-08-2010, 07:42 PM
Camby is paired up with another face up, perimeter PF, with an average defensive game, his numbers went down across the board.

That has to do with him losing some time and trying to get use to a different team. The Blazers have been pleased with the defense that Camby has brought to the post though.

Anyway goodluck!

Tblaze
03-08-2010, 07:51 PM
Denver, I like Odom + Varajao better then any player on the Magic bench, also I think Billups is a tough matchup for Rondo. Pierce isn't the same anymore and Melo will take advantage.

Westbrook36
03-08-2010, 07:56 PM
Denver, I like Odom + Varajao better then any player on the Magic bench, also I think Billups is a tough matchup for Rondo. Pierce isn't the same anymore and Melo will take advantage.

Of course you do, but the rest of the bench they have isnt that much. At times I wouldn't be opposed to throwing out T.J Ford and Rondo at the same time considering that Rondo can guard most shooting guards (While they only have Raja Bell). He might be, however at the same time Rondo is a tough matchup for Billups. Pierce is at the same level he's been at with a little bit less scoring (Yet his %'s have all gone up).

Just felt like I needed to explain that a little bit..Just for future voters.

JNA17
03-08-2010, 08:12 PM
Denver

Westbrook36
03-08-2010, 10:01 PM
Could I atleast get some reasoning :shrug:

JermanJaysFan
03-08-2010, 10:17 PM
I had to take Orlando. I had to think long and hard, but I just like the way they match up with Denver :shrug:. I don't see Odom off the bench as a deciding factor.

deuces
03-08-2010, 10:31 PM
I had to take Orlando. I had to think long and hard, but I just like the way they match up with Denver :shrug:. I don't see Odom off the bench as a deciding factor.

that is all

JNA17
03-08-2010, 10:39 PM
that is all

zing! :laugh:

td0tsfinest
03-08-2010, 11:24 PM
A no Kobe and Lebron NBA Final. :speechless

That's my kind of Final.

Both team's have a solid starting five but Bench is lacking. Outside of LO and Anderson, Nuggets bench is very unreliable and you can definitely say the same about. I'm going with the Magic. I don't think Nuggets will able to contain the scoring prowess of Dirk and Pierce combined.

clehmun
03-08-2010, 11:46 PM
Of course you do, but the rest of the bench they have isnt that much. At times I wouldn't be opposed to throwing out T.J Ford and Rondo at the same time considering that Rondo can guard most shooting guards (While they only have Raja Bell). He might be, however at the same time Rondo is a tough matchup for Billups. Pierce is at the same level he's been at with a little bit less scoring (Yet his %'s have all gone up).

Just felt like I needed to explain that a little bit..Just for future voters.

If you put Rondo on Bell, you put your best defensive guard on our least offensive player, who happens to be a shooter, and with his height advantage, can still shoot over Rondo.

BUT that would create an absolute mismatch for us Billups vs Ford. Even Rondo himself would have trouble guarding Billups because of Billup's strength and post moves. I can't imagine Ford trying to play post defense on Billups. Foul, or layup every time.

ALSO you're forced to put Pierce on Melo, forcing him to guard the best offensive player on the floor. That would limit Pierce's ability to play offense as playing defense against a strong player like Melo requires a lot of energy.

By having Rondo and TJ on the floor at the same time, you've created 3 problems for your team.
That's why i think TJ won't get much minutes to be a factor this series. While Odom has the ability to play PF/SF and sometimes even on the floor at the same time with Jamison, which would create a huge mismatch for you. Camby would have to guard one of Odom or Jamison.

We can afford to have them both on the floor because:

1. we have enough depth, if they get tired, we have Shaq and Varejao.
2. we create mismatch in our favour since camby can't guard jamison nor odom.
3. odom and jamison can both switch on Dirk, and with camby not being a great offensive option who score on jumpers or put backs, either of odom and jamison would be able to handle him.
4. both jamison and odom are great rebounders, so going a little bit smaller won't hurt our rebounding at all.

and that would be the difference in the series. we are extremely versatile.

Ebbs
03-08-2010, 11:50 PM
I went Orlando I think Dirk is to much for Jamison and also I think Rondo does a great job on Billups same with Pierce on Melo.

clehmun
03-08-2010, 11:58 PM
I went Orlando I think Dirk is to much for Jamison and also I think Rondo does a great job on Billups same with Pierce on Melo.

Did you read the write ups? just wondering.
but thanks for voting anyway.

We got Jamison and Odom on Dirk, no team in the east have TWO guys who can match up with Dirk with height, length, quickness, and strength.

Rondo will have more trouble with Billups than Billups would have trouble with Rondo. Rondo doesn't have a trustworthy jumpshot, that'll let Billups give Rondo room to take away his speed advantage. Billups is too strong for Rondo, and also taller. Billup's established post game will give Rondo troubles in the post.

At this point in their careers, Melo is a much better offensive player than Pierce. We have Bell (great defender), and Graham (decent defender with strength to play Pierce) to guard Pierce, while Magic has Pietrus (decent defender), Korver (horrible defender), Tony Allen (undersized for Melo) to handle Melo.

DenButsu
03-09-2010, 08:00 AM
Sticking this for a couple days to make sure the mock folks can get lots of votes.

J-Relo
03-09-2010, 09:19 AM
Denver...

KnicksorBust
03-09-2010, 10:15 AM
This is an awesome awesome final. I went Nuggets and I'll explain why later but this is about as close as it can get. Great job by both GMs! :clap:

Westbrook36
03-09-2010, 10:24 AM
If you put Rondo on Bell, you put your best defensive guard on our least offensive player, who happens to be a shooter, and with his height advantage, can still shoot over Rondo.

BUT that would create an absolute mismatch for us Billups vs Ford. Even Rondo himself would have trouble guarding Billups because of Billup's strength and post moves. I can't imagine Ford trying to play post defense on Billups. Foul, or layup every time.

ALSO you're forced to put Pierce on Melo, forcing him to guard the best offensive player on the floor. That would limit Pierce's ability to play offense as playing defense against a strong player like Melo requires a lot of energy.

By having Rondo and TJ on the floor at the same time, you've created 3 problems for your team.
That's why i think TJ won't get much minutes to be a factor this series. While Odom has the ability to play PF/SF and sometimes even on the floor at the same time with Jamison, which would create a huge mismatch for you. Camby would have to guard one of Odom or Jamison.

We can afford to have them both on the floor because:

1. we have enough depth, if they get tired, we have Shaq and Varejao.
2. we create mismatch in our favour since camby can't guard jamison nor odom.
3. odom and jamison can both switch on Dirk, and with camby not being a great offensive option who score on jumpers or put backs, either of odom and jamison would be able to handle him.
4. both jamison and odom are great rebounders, so going a little bit smaller won't hurt our rebounding at all.

and that would be the difference in the series. we are extremely versatile.

Raja Bell has a few inches on Rondo, which really wonít help him much. Itís not like heís stronger or anything to drive past him (Which he wonít be able to do). Then Rondo will be able to run past him on the offensive end as Bell isnt the same defensive player he once was. Rondo has long arms which will make it hard for Raja Bell to simply shoot over him, not to mention with Rondo glued onto him. Billups canít be on the floor at all times, which means that Ford can easily come in during parts of the game.
Iím actually perfectly fine with Pierce on Melo considering that Pierce is a hell of a deffender. I highly doubt it will effect a world class athlete like Pierce to be honest with you. Melo is a very strong player, but if that tries out Pierce then it will tire out Melo considering that Pierce is quite strong too.

That hasnít really created any matchup problems at all to be honest with you. When Billups is out of the game I can easily throw in T.J Ford at point guard, which will give Rondo a rest. Then at the same time T.J has that speed which will keep Billups tired even if Billups is in the game. Jason Williams also has the size to play with Billups which should help as a lethal triple combo.

Actually Camby is a very very very very mobile player down in the post and I have no problem with him guarding Jamison or Odom. He has the size and speed to keep up with them most of the time and his long arms will be able to help if they get past him.

Camby doesnít need to score, but itís going to be hard to grab some rebounds over him. Jamison and Odom are good rebounder, however they are not great rebounders.

At school..can't respond to rest

clehmun
03-09-2010, 11:17 AM
Sticking this for a couple days to make sure the mock folks can get lots of votes.

good call :clap:

clehmun
03-09-2010, 11:34 AM
Raja Bell has a few inches on Rondo, which really wonít help him much. Itís not like heís stronger or anything to drive past him (Which he wonít be able to do). Then Rondo will be able to run past him on the offensive end as Bell isnt the same defensive player he once was. Rondo has long arms which will make it hard for Raja Bell to simply shoot over him, not to mention with Rondo glued onto him. Billups canít be on the floor at all times, which means that Ford can easily come in during parts of the game.
Iím actually perfectly fine with Pierce on Melo considering that Pierce is a hell of a deffender. I highly doubt it will effect a world class athlete like Pierce to be honest with you. Melo is a very strong player, but if that tries out Pierce then it will tire out Melo considering that Pierce is quite strong too.

That hasnít really created any matchup problems at all to be honest with you. When Billups is out of the game I can easily throw in T.J Ford at point guard, which will give Rondo a rest. Then at the same time T.J has that speed which will keep Billups tired even if Billups is in the game. Jason Williams also has the size to play with Billups which should help as a lethal triple combo.

Actually Camby is a very very very very mobile player down in the post and I have no problem with him guarding Jamison or Odom. He has the size and speed to keep up with them most of the time and his long arms will be able to help if they get past him.

Camby doesnít need to score, but itís going to be hard to grab some rebounds over him. Jamison and Odom are good rebounder, however they are not great rebounders.

At school..can't respond to rest

haha i'm at work so i gotta keep this short as well.

- rondo vs bell, i'm not saying rondo can't guard bell, he definitely can. i'm saying why would you use your best defensive guard on our spot up shooter who's on the court basically to spread the floor and play great defense? Bell won't take shots unless they're open 3s (billups penetration, double team from melo/shaq/billups, etc). and his height advantage on rondo would allow him to get off some shots a little easier. this is if you play rondo and ford at the same time of course.

- if TJ only comes in the game when Billups or Rondo's out, that wouldn't be more than 12-15 minutes a game. he's your best bench player, and 15 minutes isn't gona be a huge factor. while odom my best bench player can play anywhere from 25-35 minutes a game because of his versatility.

- Pierce is a good defender, not hell of a defender. playing in boston with their defensive schemes help cover pierce and rayray's mistakes. He can guard Melo, probably better than pietrus too. But at this stage of his career, pierce often has off nights on the offensive end even without the responsibility to guard a top 5 offensive player. He won't be as efficient if he has to guard a 30pt scorer, while being relied to put up 20 points a night. Melo's in great shape this year, shedding 20 lbs. So we're confident about his conditioning.

- camby is mobile. but you're telling me he can chase odom around the whole court? can you see camby checking odom on top of the 3 pt line or as he bring the ball up? odom is a point forward at times, if you're going to use camby to guard him, there goes your defensive boards/interior shot blocking. If camby guards jamison, jamison is still faster than him, with 3 pt range. it's a mismatch no matter how you put it ;)

if we play both jamison and odom, one of them will drag camby out to the perimeter leaving you with little defensive rebounding help or shot blocking. Odom and Jamison are better rebounders than dirk IMHO.

Jetsguy
03-09-2010, 12:05 PM
Rondo/Ford v Billups/Daniels - I will take Billups here just to touch a matchup for an PG

1 vote for Denver

Pietrus/Allen v. Bell/Graham - Wash

Pierce/Korver v. Anthony/Odom - I am taking Melo over PP right now and Odom over KK just seals it

1 vote for Denver

Dirk/Anderson v. Jamison/Varejao - I am taking Dirk Jamison I dont think can hang (not many people can) and Varajao doesnt do much for me.

1 vote Orlando

Camby/Thomas/Foyle v Shaq/Petro - Shaq is a force and we all know the defender that Camby can be. With a lot of depth at the C position for Orlando I think they can rotate bodies on Shaq and maybe employ a little hack-a-shaq. I will take Orlando by a slight margin.

1 vote for Orlando

Damnit tie...I think I need to revisit this. I think slight advantage to Raja Bell and Denver

Anon
03-09-2010, 12:26 PM
I went with Orlando. I think Carmelo and Billups would have to average huge numbers for Denver to pull it out. Nuggets frontcourt (O'Neal and Varajeao) is built to deal with power players and Nowitzki, Camby and Anderson are all floor spacers. O'Neal would be a matchup problem on the other end but how many minutes could you get out of him in a seven game series? Overall I think Orlando is more athletic, better shooters, and deeper bench. Would be a close series though.

pebloemer
03-09-2010, 12:41 PM
I went with Orlando. I think Carmelo and Billups would have to average huge numbers for Denver to pull it out. Nuggets frontcourt (O'Neal and Varajeao) is built to deal with power players and Nowitzki, Camby and Anderson are all floor spacers. O'Neal would be a matchup problem on the other end but how many minutes could you get out of him in a seven game series? Overall I think Orlando is more athletic, better shooters, and deeper bench. Would be a close series though.

That's about what I think too. Orlando for me.

DenButsu
03-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Man, I don't see how Orlando defends on the interior without their frontcourt fouling out. Melo, Shaq, Varejao, Odom - dunk city.

Hate to make it geeky, but I almost have to vote for Denver purely on the fact that (with the exception of their point guard) Orlando is basically a jump shooting team (lower %), while the Nuggs would go nuts in the paint (high %).

Swap Camby w/ a legit low post presence and I might be reconsidering my take.

As is... Nuggs would definitely survive this 7-game series, imo.

Silent
03-09-2010, 01:10 PM
Denver

Super.
03-09-2010, 01:11 PM
Did you read the write ups? just wondering.
but thanks for voting anyway.

We got Jamison and Odom on Dirk, no team in the east have TWO guys who can match up with Dirk with height, length, quickness, and strength.

Rondo will have more trouble with Billups than Billups would have trouble with Rondo. Rondo doesn't have a trustworthy jumpshot, that'll let Billups give Rondo room to take away his speed advantage. Billups is too strong for Rondo, and also taller. Billup's established post game will give Rondo troubles in the post.

At this point in their careers, Melo is a much better offensive player than Pierce. We have Bell (great defender), and Graham (decent defender with strength to play Pierce) to guard Pierce, while Magic has Pietrus (decent defender), Korver (horrible defender), Tony Allen (undersized for Melo) to handle Melo.

Ive seen Rondo tool on Chauncy and Chauncy tool on Rondo.

You severely underrated pierce though.

clehmun
03-09-2010, 01:28 PM
Ive seen Rondo tool on Chauncy and Chauncy tool on Rondo.

You severely underrated pierce though.

no man, don't get me wrong, pierce is still a great player, a top 5 SF for sure. i just think Melo's better at this point, and i don't think that's underrating pierce at all.

Pierce just doesn't look as dominant this year. I'm sure he'll get it together in the playoffs, but that's still an IF.
This year, Pierce have been putting up some 20 point games, but also disappears sometimes with 8, 9, 13 point games.
He only scored 30 or more points 2 times this season, and scored 10 or less points 8 times (with a handful of 11 or 12 point games).
Once again, i think pierce will be a much better player come playoff time, but i have some doubts of him returning the to finals MVP player he was 2 years ago.

Melo on the other hand has been consistently dominanting the whole season. I don't think i'm alone if i rank melo ahead of pierce right now.

KnicksorBust
03-09-2010, 04:03 PM
I have these flashbacks of Chauncey Billups just dominating Chris Paul in last year's playoffs and I have a funny feeling we'd see a lot of that here as well. Melo taking the step forward (on both ends of the floor!) and the Nuggets depth win this one.

Westbrook36
03-09-2010, 04:17 PM
no man, don't get me wrong, pierce is still a great player, a top 5 SF for sure. i just think Melo's better at this point, and i don't think that's underrating pierce at all.

Pierce just doesn't look as dominant this year. I'm sure he'll get it together in the playoffs, but that's still an IF.
This year, Pierce have been putting up some 20 point games, but also disappears sometimes with 8, 9, 13 point games.
He only scored 30 or more points 2 times this season, and scored 10 or less points 8 times (with a handful of 11 or 12 point games).
Once again, i think pierce will be a much better player come playoff time, but i have some doubts of him returning the to finals MVP player he was 2 years ago.

Melo on the other hand has been consistently dominanting the whole season. I don't think i'm alone if i rank melo ahead of pierce right now.

Pierce has learned that he doesn't need to force himself at his max during the regular season. It's like what the Spurs use to do as they got older, not to mention that he hasn't lost a step at all. Many players have off and on nights while he probally played well in other areas other then scoring. His FG%/3%/FT% have all gone up this season compared to last season, which shows that he is taking good shots.

Love melo, however I also love Pierce.

clehmun
03-09-2010, 04:20 PM
4 straight votes for magic to make this series close again. this is a great matchup!

Westbrook36
03-09-2010, 04:26 PM
haha i'm at work so i gotta keep this short as well.

- rondo vs bell, i'm not saying rondo can't guard bell, he definitely can. i'm saying why would you use your best defensive guard on our spot up shooter who's on the court basically to spread the floor and play great defense? Bell won't take shots unless they're open 3s (billups penetration, double team from melo/shaq/billups, etc). and his height advantage on rondo would allow him to get off some shots a little easier. this is if you play rondo and ford at the same time of course.

- if TJ only comes in the game when Billups or Rondo's out, that wouldn't be more than 12-15 minutes a game. he's your best bench player, and 15 minutes isn't gona be a huge factor. while odom my best bench player can play anywhere from 25-35 minutes a game because of his versatility.

- Pierce is a good defender, not hell of a defender. playing in boston with their defensive schemes help cover pierce and rayray's mistakes. He can guard Melo, probably better than pietrus too. But at this stage of his career, pierce often has off nights on the offensive end even without the responsibility to guard a top 5 offensive player. He won't be as efficient if he has to guard a 30pt scorer, while being relied to put up 20 points a night. Melo's in great shape this year, shedding 20 lbs. So we're confident about his conditioning.

- camby is mobile. but you're telling me he can chase odom around the whole court? can you see camby checking odom on top of the 3 pt line or as he bring the ball up? odom is a point forward at times, if you're going to use camby to guard him, there goes your defensive boards/interior shot blocking. If camby guards jamison, jamison is still faster than him, with 3 pt range. it's a mismatch no matter how you put it ;)

if we play both jamison and odom, one of them will drag camby out to the perimeter leaving you with little defensive rebounding help or shot blocking. Odom and Jamison are better rebounders than dirk IMHO.

1. I really don't see the height advantage helping Raja Bell with Rondo's length and the glue defense he will put on him. I said when Billups is out of the game this will happen more often, and when Billups is in the game(Which would put Ford on Daniels).

2. Actually I love Ryan Anderson as much as I love T.J Ford and I think he's one of the most underrated players in the league. Anderson can play both PF/C(During parts of the game). He's someone who can also stay with Odom with his size and length (Also his ability to move around so fluidly)

3. Pierce is known to be a hell of a defender actually. Ray Allen is the one who doesn't have a great defensive game. Pierce isnt trying to force up 20-25PPG this season and has taken better shots from all around (Highest % in every spot this season compared to last). You are acting like Pierce isnt in shape and I strongly disagree with that, however he simply isnt trying to force himself in the regular season.

4. Camby won't have to glue right on Odom, but he can stick near him. With Camby's size and ability to move around he should be able to stay in the area Odom is in. Help defense is also something that can occur on the wings when Odom is at the three point line (Averages 2 three pointers a game). Jamison shoots some three balls, but help defense can always work. Most high engery bigmen are always moving around in the post, which is what Camby will do.

clehmun
03-09-2010, 05:11 PM
1. I really don't see the height advantage helping Raja Bell with Rondo's length and the glue defense he will put on him. I said when Billups is out of the game this will happen more often, and when Billups is in the game(Which would put Ford on Daniels).

2. Actually I love Ryan Anderson as much as I love T.J Ford and I think he's one of the most underrated players in the league. Anderson can play both PF/C(During parts of the game). He's someone who can also stay with Odom with his size and length (Also his ability to move around so fluidly)

3. Pierce is known to be a hell of a defender actually. Ray Allen is the one who doesn't have a great defensive game. Pierce isnt trying to force up 20-25PPG this season and has taken better shots from all around (Highest % in every spot this season compared to last). You are acting like Pierce isnt in shape and I strongly disagree with that, however he simply isnt trying to force himself in the regular season.

4. Camby won't have to glue right on Odom, but he can stick near him. With Camby's size and ability to move around he should be able to stay in the area Odom is in. Help defense is also something that can occur on the wings when Odom is at the three point line (Averages 2 three pointers a game). Jamison shoots some three balls, but help defense can always work. Most high engery bigmen are always moving around in the post, which is what Camby will do.

1. once again, you're missing the point. rondo can guard raja bell, i'm not disputing that. my point is, why would you use rondo to guard my spot up shooter? when i have a guy like Billups that would be much more dangerous. It's like using Battier to guard Q-Rich, and let Wade kill Kevin Martin.
I'm not saying rondo's length wouldn't help challenge Raja's shots, but we're talking about WIDE OPEN 3s created by double teams/penetration from other players. What happens if you want to double Shaq/Melo/Billups or even Jamison/Odom when he gets hot? that would create open looks for Bell. Open looks = without rondo's "glue defense" or challenge shots. Unless you plan on sticking with 1 on 1 D the whole series for the whole game OR you plan on having Rondo stick with Bell no matter what, and use other guys to double team. But why would you do that and leave my best offensive players open?

2. Sure Ryan Anderson is decent. But please don't think for a second that he's someone who can match up with odom. Odom is a border-line all star calibre player, a legit 6th man of the year candidate. Anderson gets 10-15 minutes a game, with random DNP-coach decisions.

3. I don't mean to say Pierce is an average defender, but he's no shane battier either. If Melo's just starting to enter his prime, then pierce is starting to past it. How can you tell me he's still exactly the same player he was 2 years ago when he's having more and more off nights in this regular season? You mention Pierce is just trying to pace himself in the regular season, as he get ready for playoffs. I agree with that, and that's exactly what "older" players do, like tim duncan. I know it doesn't mean that they're not in shape or won't step up in the playoffs, but it also means that they're not what they once were. And that is why i'm suggesting that putting Pierce on Melo would affect Pierce's game on the offensive end because he'll waste more energy trying to slow down carmelo.

4. i'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. camby won't be glued to odom, but will be around the area he's in? How is that good defense just to be around the area of the player you're trying to guard? You're also suggesting that with odom or jamison dragging camby out in the perimeter or 3 point line, camby can still somehow manage to play help defense around the basket, challenge layups/dunks and/or grab defensive boards?

basically i'm saying a few things that i don't think anyone can deny.

1. putting rondo on bell is wasting rondo's defensive ability.
2. odom is a MUCH better player than ryan anderson.
3. making pierce play defense on melo will hurt pierce's ability to play offense.
4. camby cannot guard odom/jamison. it's a mismatch, and even if he manages to stay with them in the perimeter, your best shotblocker and rebounder will be out of the paint.

JayW_1023
03-09-2010, 05:45 PM
I like Denver mainly because they have the bodies to throw at Dwight.

roshan3ai
03-09-2010, 06:01 PM
I like Denver mainly because they have the bodies to throw at Dwight.

:laugh2: Dwight's not on Orlando

kEviN21
03-09-2010, 06:06 PM
Can't get any closer than this. I will have to go Denver because of Shaq and bench. It really can go either way though...

Westbrook36
03-09-2010, 07:48 PM
I like Denver mainly because they have the bodies to throw at Dwight.

If this vote counts..:o

Westbrook36
03-09-2010, 08:00 PM
1. once again, you're missing the point. rondo can guard raja bell, i'm not disputing that. my point is, why would you use rondo to guard my spot up shooter? when i have a guy like Billups that would be much more dangerous. It's like using Battier to guard Q-Rich, and let Wade kill Kevin Martin.
I'm not saying rondo's length wouldn't help challenge Raja's shots, but we're talking about WIDE OPEN 3s created by double teams/penetration from other players. What happens if you want to double Shaq/Melo/Billups or even Jamison/Odom when he gets hot? that would create open looks for Bell. Open looks = without rondo's "glue defense" or challenge shots. Unless you plan on sticking with 1 on 1 D the whole series for the whole game OR you plan on having Rondo stick with Bell no matter what, and use other guys to double team. But why would you do that and leave my best offensive players open?

2. Sure Ryan Anderson is decent. But please don't think for a second that he's someone who can match up with odom. Odom is a border-line all star calibre player, a legit 6th man of the year candidate. Anderson gets 10-15 minutes a game, with random DNP-coach decisions.

3. I don't mean to say Pierce is an average defender, but he's no shane battier either. If Melo's just starting to enter his prime, then pierce is starting to past it. How can you tell me he's still exactly the same player he was 2 years ago when he's having more and more off nights in this regular season? You mention Pierce is just trying to pace himself in the regular season, as he get ready for playoffs. I agree with that, and that's exactly what "older" players do, like tim duncan. I know it doesn't mean that they're not in shape or won't step up in the playoffs, but it also means that they're not what they once were. And that is why i'm suggesting that putting Pierce on Melo would affect Pierce's game on the offensive end because he'll waste more energy trying to slow down carmelo.

4. i'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. camby won't be glued to odom, but will be around the area he's in? How is that good defense just to be around the area of the player you're trying to guard? You're also suggesting that with odom or jamison dragging camby out in the perimeter or 3 point line, camby can still somehow manage to play help defense around the basket, challenge layups/dunks and/or grab defensive boards?

basically i'm saying a few things that i don't think anyone can deny.

1. putting rondo on bell is wasting rondo's defensive ability.
2. odom is a MUCH better player than ryan anderson.
3. making pierce play defense on melo will hurt pierce's ability to play offense.
4. camby cannot guard odom/jamison. it's a mismatch, and even if he manages to stay with them in the perimeter, your best shotblocker and rebounder will be out of the paint.

1. You are missing the point that this would be when Billups would be out of the game. You think Raja Bell is going to be open every single shot he takes? You are acting like my defense couldn't guard a highschool rec league team. Why would I double Billups when I have Rondo who is one of the best defensive point guards in the NBA and Shaq with the way he has played this season? I most likely wouldn't even double Melo with the defense that Pierce brings to the table. You haven't understood the point I have been trying to make, which nelects those last statements.

2. The Magic have the best bench in the NBA, which has to do with the amount of time he gets. If you actually watch Ryan Anderson you can see that he is a little dirk in his own way and very productive.

3. Never said that he was Shane Battier either. I wouldn't consider the type of season Pierce is having as past his prime. He's not exactly the same player, however he has taken smarter shots. He's saving himself for the playoffs, which is the best thing he could do for the Celtics (As I see KG/Allen doing at points in the game). He has a little bit less points and a higher % in every single catergory, I wouldn't call that not himself. Pierce has to cover different all stars all the time to be honest with you, so I'm not sure why it would affect his game so much guarding Melo.

4. Camby doesn't have to come to the three point line if hes in the area of defending him. He doesn't have to come all the way out, however he can come out. Camby gets a lot of rebounds outside of the post too as he crashes the boars (If he's outside the paint thats exactly what can get you boards). It's not even like he's going to be guarding them considering I have Dirk.

1. I said when T.J and Rondo are in the game while Billups is out. If not then T.J will guard Raja Bell at points in the game (He's not the same player he once was).
2. Never said he wasn't
3. Pierce has to guard players like Melo/Granger/Etc being a small forward, so I'm not sure why that would hurt him so much.
4. Crashing the boards will have if it comes to that and weak side defense is something that Camby is awesome at.

KnicksorBust
03-09-2010, 08:25 PM
Either Westbrook is secretly Ryan Anderson's agent or an Orlando fan has incriminating photos of him sucking another dude's dick. This is just getting out of hand.

Westbrook36
03-09-2010, 08:30 PM
Either Westbrook is secretly Ryan Anderson's agent or an Orlando fan has incriminating photos of him sucking another dude's dick. This is just getting out of hand.

I've always liked Ryan Anderson since the draft and I think he could be very productive in the right system. He can shoot the three and has that very solid 15 ft jumper. He could work on banging downlow a little more and his rebounding, however I like the rest of his game. I think he could be a future 15 PPG type guy and could be even higher depending on where he lands as a starter.

DenButsu
03-09-2010, 09:29 PM
If this vote counts..:o

Actually, his point is only strengthened by the fact that Dwight actually is not on the Magic roster. Rather than having the bodies to throw at Dwight, Denver has the bodies to throw straight at the rim and slam it down again and again and again. The interior D of that Magic roster would be virtually helpless against a constant onslaught in the paint by the Nuggets frontcourt.

clehmun
03-09-2010, 10:40 PM
1. You are missing the point that this would be when Billups would be out of the game. You think Raja Bell is going to be open every single shot he takes? You are acting like my defense couldn't guard a highschool rec league team. Why would I double Billups when I have Rondo who is one of the best defensive point guards in the NBA and Shaq with the way he has played this season? I most likely wouldn't even double Melo with the defense that Pierce brings to the table. You haven't understood the point I have been trying to make, which nelects those last statements.

2. The Magic have the best bench in the NBA, which has to do with the amount of time he gets. If you actually watch Ryan Anderson you can see that he is a little dirk in his own way and very productive.

3. Never said that he was Shane Battier either. I wouldn't consider the type of season Pierce is having as past his prime. He's not exactly the same player, however he has taken smarter shots. He's saving himself for the playoffs, which is the best thing he could do for the Celtics (As I see KG/Allen doing at points in the game). He has a little bit less points and a higher % in every single catergory, I wouldn't call that not himself. Pierce has to cover different all stars all the time to be honest with you, so I'm not sure why it would affect his game so much guarding Melo.

4. Camby doesn't have to come to the three point line if hes in the area of defending him. He doesn't have to come all the way out, however he can come out. Camby gets a lot of rebounds outside of the post too as he crashes the boars (If he's outside the paint thats exactly what can get you boards). It's not even like he's going to be guarding them considering I have Dirk.

1. I said when T.J and Rondo are in the game while Billups is out. If not then T.J will guard Raja Bell at points in the game (He's not the same player he once was).
2. Never said he wasn't
3. Pierce has to guard players like Melo/Granger/Etc being a small forward, so I'm not sure why that would hurt him so much.
4. Crashing the boards will have if it comes to that and weak side defense is something that Camby is awesome at.

It's fun going back and forth, so here we go.

1. Yes, I do think Raja Bell would be open 90% of the shot he takes, or else, why would he take it? We got 5 potential 20 point scorer, Raja is our 6th or 7th option on offense.

You won't have to double team Billups, I agree with that, I like rondo's defense. Although Billups has a big advantage on Rondo in the post.

You do realize Shaq has literally 100lbs on Camby right? If you think Camby can guard Shaq one on one, I don't know what to say. Shaq averaged 16 points and 7 rebounds in February when Mo Williams was out with injury. Shaq can still score when his team needs him to. He's our 4th option, very much capable. I don't care if Shaq's 45, against a 230lb Camby, it's bully ball.

Pierce checking Melo one on one? Sure. Just realize Carmelo is a 30 POINT SCORER. and pierce is an above average defender at best. NO ONE in the league can stop Melo from scoring 25 points all by himself.

2. Glad you like Ryan Anderson so much. But you're alone there buddy.

3. You said it yourself, he's saving himself from the playoffs. Do you see a prime player like Lebron, Wade, Kobe, MELO, BILLUPS, bosh, deron, dwight, etc "save" themselves for the playoffs? Only aged players have to, and that's all i'm suggesting. All the other stars i mentioned above play like MVPs in the regular season, and step up even more in the playoffs.

4. Camby's not gona guard Odom/Jamison on the 3 point line? so he's gona let them shoot open 3s? and then run back 15 ft to get a good rebound position, and get a board?
The reason we're talking about Camby on Odom/Jamison is because I'll use them both on the floor at the same time - (Billups-Bell-Melo-Jamison-Odom). I think this matchup can work in our favour because BOTH Jamison and Odom have the foot speed, length, size, strength to guard Dirk. Camby is a mere jump shooter so the other one can guard him with no trouble. And the key here is that Odom and Jamison are both excellent rebounders, so I don't lose in that area as well.
Now, i'm not suggesting Odom/Jamison can stop dirk. But they're atleast a good match up. While Camby on Odom or Jamison is a horrible match up for you as they're both good shooters with ball handling skills with size.

Westbrook36
03-09-2010, 10:58 PM
It's fun going back and forth, so here we go.

1. Yes, I do think Raja Bell would be open 90% of the shot he takes, or else, why would he take it? We got 5 potential 20 point scorer, Raja is our 6th or 7th option on offense.

You won't have to double team Billups, I agree with that, I like rondo's defense. Although Billups has a big advantage on Rondo in the post.

You do realize Shaq has literally 100lbs on Camby right? If you think Camby can guard Shaq one on one, I don't know what to say. Shaq averaged 16 points and 7 rebounds in February when Mo Williams was out with injury. Shaq can still score when his team needs him to. He's our 4th option, very much capable. I don't care if Shaq's 45, against a 230lb Camby, it's bully ball.

Pierce checking Melo one on one? Sure. Just realize Carmelo is a 30 POINT SCORER. and pierce is an above average defender at best. NO ONE in the league can stop Melo from scoring 25 points all by himself.

2. Glad you like Ryan Anderson so much. But you're alone there buddy.

3. You said it yourself, he's saving himself from the playoffs. Do you see a prime player like Lebron, Wade, Kobe, MELO, BILLUPS, bosh, deron, dwight, etc "save" themselves for the playoffs? Only aged players have to, and that's all i'm suggesting. All the other stars i mentioned above play like MVPs in the regular season, and step up even more in the playoffs.

4. Camby's not gona guard Odom/Jamison on the 3 point line? so he's gona let them shoot open 3s? and then run back 15 ft to get a good rebound position, and get a board?
The reason we're talking about Camby on Odom/Jamison is because I'll use them both on the floor at the same time - (Billups-Bell-Melo-Jamison-Odom). I think this matchup can work in our favour because BOTH Jamison and Odom have the foot speed, length, size, strength to guard Dirk. Camby is a mere jump shooter so the other one can guard him with no trouble. And the key here is that Odom and Jamison are both excellent rebounders, so I don't lose in that area as well.
Now, i'm not suggesting Odom/Jamison can stop dirk. But they're atleast a good match up. While Camby on Odom or Jamison is a horrible match up for you as they're both good shooters with ball handling skills with size.

5 potential 20 point scorers? Odom doesn't do that and neither does shaq.

I'm well aware of the size of Shaq, however one problem he has is that he doesn't have the seam feet/knees anymore. You realize that with the right position size doesn't matter? Ben Wallace had 5 more pounds then Marcus Camby and he seemed to do a hell of a job on the defensive end of the floor. I'd take the foundations of football rather then some extra pounds 10 times out of 10.

Melo is a hell of a scorer, however let's not make him out to be superman vs a normal human.

Then you need to watch more of Ryan Anderson as you seem to have missed over him.

You do realize that msot of them are 24-26 years old. How the hell is Billups in his prime if Pierce is out of his prime? Also Billups has seen less time this year as I'm guessing they want to keep those legs fresh.

I'm actually fine with Jamison shooting a bunch of threes and many players crash the boards like that. If Odom/Jamison have such an easy time defending Dirk then I don't see how he would be that MVP star player. You make it sound easy trying to guard someone like Dirk just because they are quick. Dirk can shoot over ANYONE in the league, which is his signature move. Camby shoots some jumpers, but normally most points come on putbacks. Odom and Jamison are good rebounders, however they are not excellent.

Westbrook36
03-09-2010, 11:03 PM
Actually, his point is only strengthened by the fact that Dwight actually is not on the Magic roster. Rather than having the bodies to throw at Dwight, Denver has the bodies to throw straight at the rim and slam it down again and again and again. The interior D of that Magic roster would be virtually helpless against a constant onslaught in the paint by the Nuggets frontcourt.

Thats irrelevant considering he placed his vote thinking that the only reason they would win is because they have the bodies to throw at Dwight Howard, however I don't have Dwight Howard. Which means that the voter was under the impression that these were the normal teams (That or he thought he saw Dwight Howard instead of Marcus Camby).

Who are they going to throw at the rim?

Shaq - I'm not sure you can throw him at the rim anymore, he's more of a huge worn down body in the middle that has fallen in production.
Jamison/Odom - Both of them aren't real, "bangers."
Anderson Varejao - isnt known to be the offensive beast type player and I'll be able to throw Ethan Thomas at him, who is a pretty solid body and a high energy big.

clehmun
03-09-2010, 11:23 PM
5 potential 20 point scorers? Odom doesn't do that and neither does shaq.

I'm well aware of the size of Shaq, however one problem he has is that he doesn't have the seam feet/knees anymore. You realize that with the right position size doesn't matter? Ben Wallace had 5 more pounds then Marcus Camby and he seemed to do a hell of a job on the defensive end of the floor.
I'd take the foundations of football rather then some extra pounds 10 times out of 10.

Melo is a hell of a scorer, however let's not make him out to be superman vs a normal human.

Then you need to watch more of Ryan Anderson as you seem to have missed over him.

You do realize that msot of them are 24-26 years old. How the hell is Billups in his prime if Pierce is out of his prime? Also Billups has seen less time this year as I'm guessing they want to keep those legs fresh.

I'm actually fine with Jamison shooting a bunch of threes and many players crash the boards like that. If Odom/Jamison have such an easy time defending Dirk then I don't see how he would be that MVP star player. You make it sound easy trying to guard someone like Dirk just because they are quick. Dirk can shoot over ANYONE in the league, which is his signature move. Camby shoots some jumpers, but normally most points come on putbacks. Odom and Jamison are good rebounders, however they are not excellent.

noticed i said potential, not average. Shaq and Odom can both score 20 points depending on matchups any given night. they have the potential. Camby is not a potential 20 point scorer, neither are pietrus or anyone else on your bench. rondo is a potential 20 point scorer even though he only averages 14.

do you realize how strong ben wallace is in his prime years? he's 4-5 inches shorter than camby and weights more. what does that tell you? Camby and strong just doesn't go together. size does matter in this league. size = height/weight/strength and shaq has all of those on camby.

melo is a top 3 scorer in the league. if he's not a superman on offense, i don't know who is. LBJ? Durant? kobe? well, melo averages within +/- 2 points of those players.

I actually seen anderson play a lot. and i do like his game. but theres a reason why he's not getting more minutes. he's inconsistent. i like him, but you're trying to say him and odom are a wash. and that he's a dirk-lite. I didnt even mention my 4th best bigman much in varejao, and he's much better than ryan anderson.

Look at billups' stats, and you'll realize he's having career highs in points, and right there with assists. his minutes are down because the nuggets are winning a lot of games and he has a capable backup in ty lawson. I wasn't just bluffing when i said Billups is having a career year.

again, no where did i say odom/jamison can guard dirk easily. i said they're good matchups. MUCH MUCH MUCH better than camby trying to chase around my point forward lamar odom. can you imagine dirk or camby guarding odom 90 ft away from the basket as odom brings up the ball to run a play?
Dirk is your biggest advantage. i'm not taking that away from you. all i'm saying, odom AND jamison is about as good as it gets in trying to slow down Dirk. they're my 3rd and 5th odom too, so it's not like i'll need them to consistently put up 20+ points WHILE guarding the other team's best player as you're asking Pierce to do.

clehmun
03-09-2010, 11:31 PM
btw, pierce had another off game in tonight's loss scoring 12 points against the bucks on 3 of 13 shooting, missing the final shot :)

pierce was matched up with salmons and sometimes delfino (i watched the game). salmon's scored 16 points, and delfino had 19 with 5 3s.

if salmons and delfino can outscore pierce, i don't know what melo would do.

actually, i have an idea.

last time pierce and melo faced up, pierce had 5 pts on 2 of 10 shooting, while carmelo had 23 pts and 8 assists. :)

DenButsu
03-09-2010, 11:52 PM
Thats irrelevant considering he placed his vote thinking that the only reason they would win is because they have the bodies to throw at Dwight Howard, however I don't have Dwight Howard. Which means that the voter was under the impression that these were the normal teams (That or he thought he saw Dwight Howard instead of Marcus Camby).

Who are they going to throw at the rim?

Shaq - I'm not sure you can throw him at the rim anymore, he's more of a huge worn down body in the middle that has fallen in production.
Jamison/Odom - Both of them aren't real, "bangers."
Anderson Varejao - isnt known to be the offensive beast type player and I'll be able to throw Ethan Thomas at him, who is a pretty solid body and a high energy big.

Who will Denver throw at the rim? Uh, how about all of these guys?

Shaq - takes 79% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .623

Varejao - takes 73% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .653

AJ - takes 50% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .560

Odom - takes 49% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .578

Melo - takes 36% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .612


Not to mention that if Orlando tries to double Melo while also guarding the perimeter he's gonna make them pay by finding one of the above guys cutting for easy dunks and layups (as he currently does with Nene and K-Mart).

Or, if they try to double Melo while also clogging the paint, he's gonna make them pay by finding Bell (.444 3pt%) or Billups (.423 3pt%) on the perimeter for the wide open 3 (as he currently does with Billups, Smith and Afflalo).


The Nuggets with this roster are going to have great floor spacing and too much artillery coming from too many spots on the floor for Orlando to successfully defend over a 7-game series.

Westbrook36
03-10-2010, 12:08 AM
Who will Denver throw at the rim? Uh, how about all of these guys?

Shaq - takes 79% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .623

Varejao - takes 73% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .653

AJ - takes 50% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .560

Odom - takes 49% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .578

Melo - takes 36% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .612


Not to mention that if Orlando tries to double Melo while also guarding the perimeter he's gonna make them pay by finding one of the above guys cutting for easy dunks and layups (as he currently does with Nene and K-Mart).

Or, if they try to double Melo while also clogging the paint, he's gonna make them pay by finding Bell (.444 3pt%) or Billups (.423 3pt%) on the perimeter for the wide open 3 (as he currently does with Billups, Smith and Afflalo).


The Nuggets with this roster are going to have great floor spacing and too much artillery coming from too many spots on the floor for Orlando to successfully defend over a 7-game series.

Do you think for some odd reason my team will stay at the three point line while these players attack the rim? You don't think Camby will be downlow or Dirk will be downlow? How about Ryan Anderson/Etan Thomas? Those players will be downlow too with Rondo always peaking over the shoulder trying to get a steal.

That wouldn't happen if they try to double Dirk though? It's not always has easy as cake to find the open player in the plane while he has two grown men right up on him as tight as possible.

Where are you getting Bell (.444 3pt%)? Is that by looking at his only 6 games the past two seasons (Average them together or something).

DenButsu
03-10-2010, 12:56 AM
Do you think for some odd reason my team will stay at the three point line while these players attack the rim? You don't think Camby will be downlow or Dirk will be downlow? How about Ryan Anderson/Etan Thomas? Those players will be downlow too with Rondo always peaking over the shoulder trying to get a steal.

That wouldn't happen if they try to double Dirk though? It's not always has easy as cake to find the open player in the plane while he has two grown men right up on him as tight as possible.

Where are you getting Bell (.444 3pt%)? Is that by looking at his only 6 games the past two seasons (Average them together or something).

First off, you're right about the Bell 3pt% - I should have used his career .411 instead of (mistakenly) using this season's (yes, only 6 games) of .444. So sorry about that, but still, the point stands that this Nuggets roster has two very potent 3-point shooters in Bell and Billups.


But my main overall point here is this:

In order to defend the paint against all those frontcourt guys that can really score efficiently near the rim and to also simultaneously defend the perimeter against the 3-point shooting of Billups and Bell, the Magic would not be able to double Carmelo, which opens him up to go hog wild. With Melo being able to score from anywhere on the floor, and with multiple serious threats at long range and near the rim, I think there's just too much floor for the Magic to cover effectively without their defense breaking down in stretches.

It would be like that whack-a-mole game. Melo starts going off, so they start doubling him, but then one of Odom, Shaq, Billups or Bell is open for an easy look. Every time they try to patch up a defensive weakness, another one opens up somewhere else on the floor.

Sorry, but I just think the Nuggets' roster is too well-balanced in this case.

Westbrook36
03-10-2010, 08:53 AM
I'm going to be so pissed if I lose by one-two :laugh2:

ashyzup
03-10-2010, 09:28 AM
Wow this finals is pretty close. I voted for Orlando though.

KnicksorBust
03-10-2010, 09:53 AM
Who will Denver throw at the rim? Uh, how about all of these guys?

Shaq - takes 79% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .623

Varejao - takes 73% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .653

AJ - takes 50% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .560

Odom - takes 49% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .578

Melo - takes 36% of his shots inside at an eFG% of .612


Not to mention that if Orlando tries to double Melo while also guarding the perimeter he's gonna make them pay by finding one of the above guys cutting for easy dunks and layups (as he currently does with Nene and K-Mart).

Or, if they try to double Melo while also clogging the paint, he's gonna make them pay by finding Bell (.444 3pt%) or Billups (.423 3pt%) on the perimeter for the wide open 3 (as he currently does with Billups, Smith and Afflalo).


The Nuggets with this roster are going to have great floor spacing and too much artillery coming from too many spots on the floor for Orlando to successfully defend over a 7-game series.

Great post. Den are you the GM too? If not you are doing a hell of a job for Clem. :laugh:

clehmun
03-10-2010, 10:45 AM
Great post. Den are you the GM too? If not you are doing a hell of a job for Clem. :laugh:

DenButsu is awesome :clap:

Westbrook36
03-10-2010, 07:27 PM
Last few minutes :pray:

Anyway If you want I'll respond to both post, however I stopped because it seemed to be beating a dead topic which wouldn't change in either p.o.v.

Westbrook36
03-10-2010, 08:04 PM
congratz clehmun!

Wish I could have won though :p

clehmun
03-10-2010, 08:49 PM
congratz clehmun!

Wish I could have won though :p

thanks WB, appreciate it. i really like your magic, bb41's spurs, and jim's jazz this year. been a good run.

atleast you didn't lose by 1 or 2, cus you said that'd piss you off :D