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JayW_1023
03-08-2010, 05:58 AM
"Kobe is a great player, the best offensive player out there ... but at the same time, we need to find some balance with our interior game, develop it a little more, moving the ball and changing sides,'' Gasol said gingerly, knowing he was treading on sacred territory by questioning Bryant and the offense of coach Phil Jackson. "We need to get focused on that a little more, to find balance, to find some flow.''

From NBA fanhouse.com:

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/03/07/gasol-has-inside-perspective-on-lakers-recent-woes/?ncid=txtlnkusspor00000002

Thoughts?

Zefflin
03-08-2010, 06:03 AM
I wish Gasol would just learn to shut his loud mouth this season and stop being **** on by the other centers in the league. Kobe should shave 5 shot attempts off his average, and that is it.

JayW_1023
03-08-2010, 06:08 AM
Gasol is shooting 51%. You can't deny his efficiency. I for one agree with him. The Lakers have so many offensive weapons...they are much better off spreading the wealth than Kobe just chucking away 30 shots.

They were 4-1...and 4-4 since Kobe returned. Kobe needs to trust his teammates more. It's not like guys like Odom, Gasol, Artest and Bynum are Soumalia Samake, Slava Medvenko, Smush Parker or Samaki Walker-calibre. This team needs a more balanced effort.

montazingmvp
03-08-2010, 06:10 AM
gasol should be getting the ball more often down low...the more he gets its the more successful the lakers will be...

they should really use gasol more often early in the game...get him the ball so he gets in a rhythm forces double teams and opens up more shots for his perimeter players...it will also take more focus off kobe and inevitably help him.

tredigs
03-08-2010, 06:16 AM
Gasol might be a risk adverse, oddly shaped nancy boy at times, but dude's entirely right here. The team is much better off when Kobe defers a bit more and works it through the post.

When did he say this? After the Magic game today? Curious how these comments will go over with them...

bolts4ever
03-08-2010, 06:32 AM
I do agree with Pau BUT insted of talking about it He Needs to be AGGRESSIVE with the basketball and decide to impact the game. To many times PAU differs and passes the ball when he should have a SCORING MENTALITY. When KOBE sees him AGRESSIVE HE WILL BACK OFF!!! and let PAU do his thing.

Just look at how Lamar has been playing this season. Pau knows his role but disapears from it sometimes instead of dominating the way he can.

heathonater
03-08-2010, 06:41 AM
although pau is right in saying the lakers offense should be more balanced, he really should have talked in private to kobe and phil about what he thinks the problem is. this avoids the media thinking that pau and kobe are not on the same page.

Evolution23
03-08-2010, 06:54 AM
gasol is soft on d

TheWatcher34
03-08-2010, 07:00 AM
please save me from another Gasol is crying thread!

magichatnumber9
03-08-2010, 07:28 AM
Why should Pau complain in private. His own coach just threw him under the bus. It is starting to seem that Pau is not happy in L.A and probably wishes he never signed that extension.

Zefflin
03-08-2010, 07:52 AM
haha wow these late night posters are...something. Yea I bet Pau is super pissed about finally getting past the first round of the playoffs and contending for rings for years to come...oh BOS, how I hate you.

NYtilIdie
03-08-2010, 08:25 AM
Gasol has been doing a lot of damn talking this year and just needs to shut up. It seems like he got one huge ego this year after winning the title and needs to ***** and moan whenever he doesn't get his.

Just play the game.

Knowledge
03-08-2010, 08:44 AM
He's right. Kobe takes too many shots at times and can completely dominate the ball even when Bynum and Gasol are playing very well and efficient down low. IMO this seems to happen because they have no PG (or no one who has a true PG mentality) to bring the ball up and get everybody in position and decide who needs the ball and where they need it. They have a lot of playmakers and scorers, but no PG type presence on that team.

juggla53
03-08-2010, 08:45 AM
"Kobe is a great player, the best offensive player out there ... but at the same time, we need to find some balance with our interior game, develop it a little more, moving the ball and changing sides,'' Gasol said gingerly, knowing he was treading on sacred territory by questioning Bryant and the offense of coach Phil Jackson. "We need to get focused on that a little more, to find balance, to find some flow.''

From NBA fanhouse.com:

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/03/07/gasol-has-inside-perspective-on-lakers-recent-woes/?ncid=txtlnkusspor00000002

Thoughts?


I think hes earned the right to speak up a little if hes unsatisfied with his role over the last few weeks and i dont think kobe or phil will have a big problem with that. Gasol transformed this team from a fringe playoff team to top flight contenders and lets face it LA will have a tough time repeating if Gasol isnt on top of his game

magichatnumber9
03-08-2010, 08:53 AM
haha wow these late night posters are...something. Yea I bet Pau is super pissed about finally getting past the first round of the playoffs and contending for rings for years to come...oh BOS, how I hate you.
You missed the point. Completely. Today's players don't respond like the players of old when your coach decides to use the media to throw players under the bus. I guess because he is European Phil thinks he has more wiggle room to give a message. Well it seems to have backfired, and it should. Phil or any other coach needs to grow some balls and do the job himself in private. As far as Kobe taking to many shots, well what's new he has been doing that since he arrived. Difference is, is that he is a scorer and not a ball hog.

JordansBulls
03-08-2010, 08:58 AM
This is what happens when you already have won a title. Everyone wants more shots and wants more of a role. Same situation after LA won the title in 2000. The next year is when all the Shaq and Kobe bickering started.

Stay_Swim
03-08-2010, 09:04 AM
Some of you posters are just so damn ignorant! Ok so what if Kobe makes yet ANOTHER game winner. Then Pau doesn't say ****, this thread isn't made and that is that. The only reason this is even a story is because the Lakers lost. Had Kobe made that shot this wouldn't even be in question.

Hey and to whoever has that sig about Lebrons "swagger," I think it's time to take out the nuts dude.

J-Relo
03-08-2010, 09:09 AM
Gasol is shooting 51%. You can't deny his efficiency. I for one agree with him. The Lakers have so many offensive weapons...they are much better off spreading the wealth than Kobe just chucking away 30 shots.

They were 4-1...and 4-4 since Kobe returned. Kobe needs to trust his teammates more. It's not like guys like Odom, Gasol, Artest and Bynum are Soumalia Samake, Slava Medvenko, Smush Parker or Samaki Walker-calibre. This team needs a more balanced effort.

he is a big man.... otherwise I agree

mikantsass
03-08-2010, 10:07 AM
Good, send him back to Memphis

Melo15
03-08-2010, 10:17 AM
Didn't Pau Gasol just complain about the Nuggets talking too much? LOL that a boy Pau Gasol start calling out arguably the best coach and player in the NBA see where that will get you big guy.

Hellcrooner
03-08-2010, 10:31 AM
1 he is absolutley true

2 he probably has told this to Phil and Kobe in private once an again and again

3 he has not been heard in private

4 both Phil and KObe are trowing him under the bus to justify team struggle and fans are stupid enough to buy into it.

5 im am and will always be a Laker fan so at this point i hope we can Sign and trade Pau and Artest or Pau and Odom for Lebron or Wade or even Bosh since its clear we are reaching a No go point of chemistry with Bryant and him.

6 That would be the second allstar that gets to a no go Point wiht Bryant , he is a selfish greedy
person and will always be until he dies, i cant wait to hear his HOF speach in some years he will make look miachel jordans like a walt disney movie.

Kobe2324
03-08-2010, 10:31 AM
I agree a little bit with Gasol, I think he does need more touches but at the same time he should keep his mouth shut cause you dont hear Kobe saying in the media that Pau is soft down low and plays terrible D against other good bigs.

XJW18
03-08-2010, 10:35 AM
Gasol is shooting 51%. You can't deny his efficiency. I for one agree with him. The Lakers have so many offensive weapons...they are much better off spreading the wealth than Kobe just chucking away 30 shots.

They were 4-1...and 4-4 since Kobe returned. Kobe needs to trust his teammates more. It's not like guys like Odom, Gasol, Artest and Bynum are Soumalia Samake, Slava Medvenko, Smush Parker or Samaki Walker-calibre. This team needs a more balanced effort.

I Completly Agree!

masalex1205
03-08-2010, 10:39 AM
please save me from another gasol is crying thread!

+1

RadiantShot
03-08-2010, 10:52 AM
As whiney as Gasol is, he's right. The Lakers could be a lot more effective working inside out. Let's just hope they make the mistake, and NOT do that in the playoffs. :)

RadiantShot
03-08-2010, 10:54 AM
Some of you posters are just so damn ignorant! Ok so what if Kobe makes yet ANOTHER game winner. Then Pau doesn't say ****, this thread isn't made and that is that. The only reason this is even a story is because the Lakers lost. Had Kobe made that shot this wouldn't even be in question.

Hey and to whoever has that sig about Lebrons "swagger," I think it's time to take out the nuts dude.

I disagree. I think no matter what the outcome was, if they were still making the mistake, Pau was going to say something. That's how players are. That's how coaches are. They say what's needed to be said. Maybe Kobe and Phil will realize it's time to get Gasol more involved. (It's ironic I say this and he scored 20 points last night.)

GCOOKIE7
03-08-2010, 10:57 AM
I was wondering where HellCrooner was

clehmun
03-08-2010, 10:57 AM
this is probably the 5th time gasol has complained about touches on the offensive end, and his role on the team publicly.

I do agree with him, he needs to get involved more. but at the same time, he needs to step up against the best teams in the league. He seems to disappear against the elite teams or whenever a game is on national television.

Dec. 25th vs Cavs - 11 pts, 6 rebs. 40% shooting.
Jan 21st vs Cavs - 13 pts, 10 rebs, 35% shooting. Missed some key FTs (3/6)
Jan 31st vs Celtics - 11 pts, 11 rebs 45% shooting.
Mar 4th vs Heat - 10 pts, 9 rebs, 36% shooting. Missed key FTs (2/4)

Those are some big games that was on national TV, when superstars step their games up. it's not that gasol's not getting shots in those games, he passes up open looks, miss layups, and clunk free throws. Gasol's a great FT shooter for a big man (80%+), and when you're missing FTs in big games, it tells me you're not ready for the big moments.
Shaq makes them when it counts, gasol, not so much.

koreancabbage
03-08-2010, 10:58 AM
hell ya, i would be pissed if I was Gasol.

not getting many shots + losing = frustration, especially one of the better PFs in the league as well.

Kobe needs to stop taking so many shots and defer to teammates. He's not getting any younger and putting 30 shots per night is gonna take a toll on the body.

Hellcrooner
03-08-2010, 11:01 AM
mmmm what was Lakers record when Kobe was sidelined?

What has been Lakers record after kobe came back?

How many MORE shots than before the injury is kobe taking?

How Many LESS shots is Pau getting than before kobes injury?

Answers to this will most probably prove Pau is right.

Hellcrooner
03-08-2010, 11:02 AM
this is probably the 5th time gasol has complained about touches on the offensive end, and his role on the team publicly.

I do agree with him, he needs to get involved more. but at the same time, he needs to step up against the best teams in the league. He seems to disappear against the elite teams or whenever a game is on national television.

Dec. 25th vs Cavs - 11 pts, 6 rebs. 40% shooting.
Jan 21st vs Cavs - 13 pts, 10 rebs, 35% shooting. Missed some key FTs (3/6)
Jan 31st vs Celtics - 11 pts, 11 rebs 45% shooting.
Mar 4th vs Heat - 10 pts, 9 rebs, 36% shooting. Missed key FTs (2/4)

Those are some big games that was on national TV, when superstars step their games up. it's not that gasol's not getting shots in those games, he passes up open looks, miss layups, and clunk free throws. Gasol's a great FT shooter for a big man (80%+), and when you're missing FTs in big games, it tells me you're not ready for the big moments.
Shaq makes them when it counts, gasol, not so much.

He played well yesterday against Dwight.

Left Dwight in just 15 points.

BkOriginalOne
03-08-2010, 11:07 AM
He's just mad because Kobe missed.

clehmun
03-08-2010, 11:18 AM
He played well yesterday against Dwight.

Left Dwight in just 15 points.

Yup, Gasol played well yesterday. Kobe took 30 shots, and probably 4-5 of them were bad shots. But it's not like Kobe wasn't distributing the ball (7 assists), more if artest and farmar can make their open shots.

the lakers play through kobe. that's a fact. they have the best chance with kobe in the lineup, as the 1st option. he might force some shots at times, but it's silly to question our record without kobe, and suggest we're a better team without him.

And please, can you stop with the gasol stopping dwight statements? every time i see someone talk about gasol's defense or softness, you'll pull out some bad games dwight had against the lakers.

dwight's bad games are because of the length of the lakers with bynum, gasol AND odom. bynum played 20 minutes, dwight was limited to 30 due to foul trouble meaning gasol AT MOST guarded dwight for 10 minutes. i'm not saying gasol's defense is horrible or anything, but he's just no match for dwight's strength (flagrant foul dunk). Our best chance to stop dwight is with bynum.

Tribe
03-08-2010, 11:28 AM
Damn all i see on here is about this dude crying...You got a ring man and could possibly get a few more...shut ur mouth already

jim51990
03-08-2010, 11:29 AM
hes right
kobe this season is not the layer he was and yet he is trying to do more then he did the last two years

ChiSox219
03-08-2010, 11:36 AM
I agree with Gasol, the Lakers suck when Kobe takes 30 or more shots.

LA had a bunch of possessions yesterday where no one else saw the ball once Kobe got his hands on it.

Lakerfan In NY
03-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Pau needs to play w/ some aggression for christ sakes...The last time I saw him actually, fight for position & DEMAND the ball was a couple of games ago when Phil benched him in the final few minutes of the game. When he checked in he FINALLY did a strong, big man move. I think it was against denver.

fairandbalanced
03-08-2010, 11:53 AM
The most shots i've seen D Wade take in a row is 2, Kobe on the other hand would never pass after making a shot, he'll keep shooting till he miss atleast 3. I think it's bad for team chemistry, a team has 5 players for a reason. During the Lakers/Heat game, Kobe kept shooting one after the other, then after about 5 shots in a row he did a no-look pass to Bynum, guess what, Bynum lost the ball because he was surprised the ball would come to him....things like that happen when you've a player that other players are not expecting any pass from.

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 12:00 PM
well...it's clear LA doesn't appreciate Gasol. Gasol should come to Houston :)

Hellcrooner
03-08-2010, 12:07 PM
^ L.A "fans" dont apreciate anybody not caled Kobe.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
03-08-2010, 12:12 PM
niiice! Lake show is gettin frustrated! :D

ballpd05
03-08-2010, 12:29 PM
Pau is right. Kobe doesn't need to chuck 30 shots a game unless he is on one of his immaculate nights.

They have way too much offensive talent to have anyone who has to feel a need to force to much of an issue.

The Lakers are better off when Kobe is a playmaker rather than a ballhog.

fairandbalanced
03-08-2010, 12:31 PM
Pau is right. Kobe doesn't need to chuck 30 shots a game unless he is on one of his immaculate nights.

They have way too much offensive talent to have anyone who has to feel a need to force to much of an issue.

The Lakers are better off when Kobe is a playmaker rather than a ballhog.

I'll amend that.....unless he is playing for the Nets!!!

MJ-BULLS
03-08-2010, 12:33 PM
well, gasol definitely need more touches down low.

But I do sense a little bit of panic in them, since they haven't lost three games in a long time. No big problem there still the champs. they have a stacked roster with a lot of talent, they will get it going later.

bigsams50
03-08-2010, 12:34 PM
He kinda has a point. LA could be alot more effective if they gave Pau a few more touches

GodsSon
03-08-2010, 12:53 PM
I only watched a little of the game yesterday, but Kobe shooting 12-30 for 34 points is pretty bad...lol

Raph12
03-08-2010, 01:08 PM
Right because watching him and Bynum both score 0pts combined on Dwight in an iso play would really have helped over Kobe single-handedly shooting them back into the game.

iggypop123
03-08-2010, 01:10 PM
the pussification of pau gasoft has been a sad sight to see. if he wants the ball then do something about it when you get the ball not just fall down

WITZ
03-08-2010, 01:14 PM
Pau complaining yet again about touches what is this like the 3rd or 4th time already complaining this season.

ko8e24
03-08-2010, 01:16 PM
the pussification of pau gasoft has been a sad sight to see. if he wants the ball then do something about it when you get the ball not just fall down

:laugh:


George Bush is back baby!

D1JM
03-08-2010, 01:35 PM
didnt gasol just ***** not that long ago that some players just need to shut up and play like he does?

D1JM
03-08-2010, 01:38 PM
The most shots i've seen D Wade take in a row is 2, Kobe on the other hand would never pass after making a shot, he'll keep shooting till he miss atleast 3. I think it's bad for team chemistry, a team has 5 players for a reason. During the Lakers/Heat game, Kobe kept shooting one after the other, then after about 5 shots in a row he did a no-look pass to Bynum, guess what, Bynum lost the ball because he was surprised the ball would come to him....things like that happen when you've a player that other players are not expecting any pass from.

tell that to lebron too

jackdawson
03-08-2010, 01:42 PM
:laugh:


George Bush is back baby!

It's funny how laker fans throw everyone else on their team in the hell to make kobe the best. They pray lakers to lose when kobe is out/not playing.

D1JM
03-08-2010, 01:45 PM
one factor that gasol is leaving out is the fact that the lakers bench only scored 15 points. 15 points against elite teams wont cut it

Hellcrooner
03-08-2010, 01:45 PM
It's funny how laker fans throw everyone else on their team in the hell to make kobe the best. They pray lakers to lose when kobe is out/not playing.

No laker fan wants that.

But of course there are lots of FAKErs wich are simply Kobe Fans.

I cant wait for kobe to retire to cleanse our fanbase a bit.

Hope we can get some rings while we are at it.

Raph12
03-08-2010, 01:47 PM
The most shots i've seen D Wade take in a row is 2, Kobe on the other hand would never pass after making a shot, he'll keep shooting till he miss atleast 3. I think it's bad for team chemistry, a team has 5 players for a reason. During the Lakers/Heat game, Kobe kept shooting one after the other, then after about 5 shots in a row he did a no-look pass to Bynum, guess what, Bynum lost the ball because he was surprised the ball would come to him....things like that happen when you've a player that other players are not expecting any pass from.

Dude you need help;

Per 36mins:
Kobe: 20.6FGA 6.8FTA 4.5apg 2.7tpg 32.6USG%
Wade: 19.9FGA 9.0FTA 6.7apg 3.2tpg 35.2USG%

This doesn't take into account how much longer Wade handles the ball. Kobe plays in the triangle offense, he doesn't just take the ball up the floor and do w/e he wants... Kobe single-handedly brought LA back into yesterday's game, yeah the refs helped, but if Kobe didn't hit all of those clutch shots or make the right pass to Gasoft at the right time, this would've been a double-digit victory.

D1JM
03-08-2010, 01:48 PM
No laker fan wants that.

But of course there are lots of FAKErs wich are simply Kobe Fans.

I cant wait for kobe to retire to cleanse our fanbase a bit.

Hope we can get some rings while we are at it.

Dont tell me gasol is going to lead the lakers to a championship? He couldnt even lead memphis for a .500 winning percentage

Hellcrooner
03-08-2010, 01:54 PM
Dont tell me gasol is going to lead the lakers to a championship? He couldnt even lead memphis for a .500 winning percentage

Funny i think 50 victories TWICE is more than -500 :rolleyes:

D1JM
03-08-2010, 02:02 PM
Funny i think 50 victories TWICE is more than -500 :rolleyes:

so u in the gasol bandwagon and the anti-kobe bandwagon huh

Hellcrooner
03-08-2010, 02:21 PM
so u in the gasol bandwagon and the anti-kobe bandwagon huh

Nope im in the Lakers win rings bandwaggon and the Lakers are more important than players bandwaggon.

I have no problem in dealing Pau much as i like him if we get a better or younger player in return.


Nad i hav eno problem to call on Kobe when he is ballhoging and wouldnt have any problem trading him at the right price too.

BBALLGOD4
03-08-2010, 02:32 PM
^ L.A "fans" dont apreciate anybody not caled Kobe.

I wouldn't say "LA Fans" but more like "Kobe" fans. There is a site called Lakersground but if you read it, all they do is put blame on everyone not named Kobe. At first it was Odom and then Byum and not it's all Gasol. He gets called "Gasoft" all day on that board lol

G-Funk
03-08-2010, 02:40 PM
Gasol is shooting 51%. You can't deny his efficiency. I for one agree with him. The Lakers have so many offensive weapons...they are much better off spreading the wealth than Kobe just chucking away 30 shots.

They were 4-1...and 4-4 since Kobe returned. Kobe needs to trust his teammates more. It's not like guys like Odom, Gasol, Artest and Bynum are Soumalia Samake, Slava Medvenko, Smush Parker or Samaki Walker-calibre. This team needs a more balanced effort.

Gasol Gallego is not as consistent only shows up when his playing weak centers. And if whe wasn't so soft we would probably have 2 championships. he needs to critisize his defense as well cause that **** is just awfull

Cool007
03-08-2010, 02:42 PM
Bulls would be happy to trade for Gasol.

Kobe loves Deng. So Bulls send Deng and/or Hinrich for Gasol and Vujacic?

Come on Gasol, Whine with us. We will be happy to listen to you.

PHX2daDEATH
03-08-2010, 03:02 PM
i saw these problems with this team a few months when I said they would get bounced if they played memphis or OKC.. Injuries , team chemistry and hunger. They aren't going to be able to drag their rears in any round of the playoffs and I'm not saying they can't win it all with a switch of a button because YES they have not been playing to their full potential all season long and are still the best in the west. I think not playing together all season long is finally catching up to them and at the wrong time of the season. This is a potential dynasty that is going have big changes at the end of the year if they dont make it out of the west..bet on it.

iggypop123
03-08-2010, 03:20 PM
in the 3 game losnig streak he shot 44%. for his standards adn a big guy thats pathetic. he is used to shooting around 60. he let dallas rape them on the boards, he couldnt do crap against diaw. seriously wtf! and scrubs like JO, joel anthony, handled his offense. of course that doesnt even cover his screen roll defense

Chronz
03-08-2010, 03:31 PM
I wish Gasol would just learn to shut his loud mouth this season and stop being **** on by the other centers in the league. Kobe should shave 5 shot attempts off his average, and that is it.

5 and thats it? Thats ALOT, and basically what Gasol is asking for

D1JM
03-08-2010, 03:55 PM
i guess kobe and jackson are packing their bags by now

mikantsass
03-08-2010, 04:57 PM
Just gonna throw this out there....

Gasol is 53rd in PPG over the last 30 days...

0nekhmer
03-08-2010, 05:05 PM
I would be happy having so many offensive scorers on my team. I personally have not watched much Laker games this year so I wouldn't know how their offensive scheme usually goes but I'm guessing Kobe dominates it most of the time or is giving other guys open looks from the double.

lakersdude
03-08-2010, 05:16 PM
this is probably the 5th time gasol has complained about touches on the offensive end, and his role on the team publicly.

I do agree with him, he needs to get involved more. but at the same time, he needs to step up against the best teams in the league. He seems to disappear against the elite teams or whenever a game is on national television.

Dec. 25th vs Cavs - 11 pts, 6 rebs. 40% shooting.
Jan 21st vs Cavs - 13 pts, 10 rebs, 35% shooting. Missed some key FTs (3/6)
Jan 31st vs Celtics - 11 pts, 11 rebs 45% shooting.
Mar 4th vs Heat - 10 pts, 9 rebs, 36% shooting. Missed key FTs (2/4)

Those are some big games that was on national TV, when superstars step their games up. it's not that gasol's not getting shots in those games, he passes up open looks, miss layups, and clunk free throws. Gasol's a great FT shooter for a big man (80%+), and when you're missing FTs in big games, it tells me you're not ready for the big moments.
Shaq makes them when it counts, gasol, not so much.
completely agree with you. Pau needs shut the hell up. Kobe never say anything against him in public.

lakersdude
03-08-2010, 05:18 PM
He played well yesterday against Dwight.

Left Dwight in just 15 points.

it was not him . it was Andrew. against Dwight.

PHX2daDEATH
03-08-2010, 05:35 PM
and who here still thinks that Pau is better than Amare?

clehmun
03-08-2010, 05:48 PM
and who here still thinks that Pau is better than Amare?

Actually I do. Gasol is a better rebounder, passer, defender, and post player. Amare is a great finisher, but he makes some really stupid passes, doesn't go for the rebound, nor defend, and has very limited handles. I know because I have him on my fantasy team so I try to watch every game he plays. He's a great scorer, but I'm sure Gasol can score if he had Steve Nash and was a first option on offense.

L@ker4Life
03-08-2010, 05:49 PM
and who here still thinks that Pau is better than Amare?

I do....By a long shot!

Gasol = better rebounder
Gasol = better fundamentals
Gasol = better scoring (If gasol was on the Suns his PPG would skyrocket)
Gasol = Better Passer
Gasol and Amare = subpar D.

Hellcrooner
03-08-2010, 05:51 PM
and who here still thinks that Pau is better than Amare?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

leftymo
03-08-2010, 06:14 PM
Aside from the obvious Fisher regression, Pau Gasol has been the single worst laker out there.

Especially in big games he's been absent. Constantly fumbling the ball away in critical situations, getting blocked, pushed around, and missing chippies inside.

His FG% is down, and he hasn't played well at all.


He's been so bad, I'm actually advocating that the team consider trading him in the off-season b/c he's prone to a quicker breakdown b/c of his olympic and world championship play...

AI4MVP
03-08-2010, 06:52 PM
the lakers play better without kobe. :)


naw dont flip out im kidding.

but he DOES need to start deferring a little bit. he has bynum and pau who are both more efficent then him. there both possibly two of the most dangerous low post players in the league.

THATSALL
03-08-2010, 07:08 PM
trade his f'n butt

chitownbears89
03-08-2010, 07:12 PM
please save me from another Gasol is crying thread!

would you like a d rose thread instead. lol.

_KB24_
03-08-2010, 08:28 PM
How about he decides to show up once in a blue moon down the stretch? The guy goes completely "Kwame in the 4th". He needs to shut up and show he can handle the pressure down in the 4th. Stupid fouls, horrible defense, missed FT's, turnovers,..... the guy needs to step it up.

dodie53
03-08-2010, 08:40 PM
just rrade gasol for cap space and picks.
:lol:

kblo247
03-08-2010, 08:40 PM
Real Talk,

Pau averages the same number of shots that he always has (13) in LA as opposed to the 15 he took in Memphis. He had never gotten off more than 15 shots in his career.

Pau on the 8 game road trip shot 44% while Kobe shot 46% even with the bad Cleveland game.

On the 3 game road trip Pau shot 44% due in large part to last night as he was in the 30s before it.

Pau never scored off any post up in yesterdays game. He got stripped and blocked during that time. He scored off Kobe dishes, a Fisher fast break, and put backs from Kobe shots in the 4th. He simply couldn't take Dwight one on one and in all honsety the Lakers best quarter was with Kobe ball as they were down 10 heading into the 4th with Kobe taking 14 shots and having 6 assists.

Pau's FG percentage has dropped month by month.

He has missed crucial free throws.

He has not performed well in big games.

He has been called soft, weak, and sickly while being benched by his coach in 3 fourth quarters, and Phil brought in Oakley in hopes of toughening him up.

He hasn't played PF well at all in LA; he has been much better at center.

Fact is Pau has never said the words "I haven't played well". He blamed Shannon for the loss in Boston without Kobe. He went to the media and said he didn't like Phil calling him out with verbal jabs. He has taken jabs at Kobe, and he has said the other guys need to play the right way to win (inside-out thru him), never him.

He just won't man up and say I haven't played well. I have declined efficiency wise. I messed up by admittedly not training my body to play this summer for Spain or this season. I ****ed my team over by admittedly sitting out a quarter of the year "to be safe with my hamstrings and not because they hurt".

Fact is Pau's play really has dipped hard this year especially after signing that Tim Duncan and KG like contract extension.

He can blame Kobe, Phil, and everyone down to Jeanie. He can *****, moan, and cry all he wants but it is up to him to step his play up. You earn touches, you earn respect, and you earn trust. Him going media whore gets him none of that and honestly helps him and the team in no way.

Yeah you can say but you don't win without Pau; that is true.

You can say without Kobe LA went 4-1; I can also point out Pau shot 45% without Kobe in the lineup and even with Pau missing a quarter of the season Kobe still had LA with the number 1 record by using Bynum as the 2nd option.

Ask yourself if this team would be better if Pau could play high-low instead of setting up on the right block across from Bynum on the right block much like Horace Grant. Has Pau tried to play that role? No. He tries to play like a center and mucks the offense and defense up right with Bynum till Lamar enters for one of them.

Pau needs to look in the mirror is all I'm saying as the overwhelming majority of LA's problems fall squarely on his shoulders since they would have chemistry if he played when he was admittedly healthy enough to play, and they would also be healthier had Kobe, Lamar, Drew, and Ron all not logged heavy minutes early because he wanted "to be safe".

Farmar could pay attention to details sure. Brown could reel in on his chucking. Lamar could actually come into the season in shape instead of playing his way into shape and flipping a switch in January. Drew could focus on defense and rebounding. Fisher could go in search of a fountain of youth or ask for his minutes to be reduced. Phil could not call his players out in the public or call timeouts. Kobe could try to quell his competitive instincts of taking over by himself when down. Artest could get rid of those cheap shoes. Luke could find a way to fight Bill's genes. Sasha could find his inner pest. They all have something that they can do better and at one part or another everyone of them has owned up to that and accepted criticism throughout this year except Pau.

He doesn't like to be called soft, he doesn't like to be reminded that he didn't win the gold medal since he didn't play, he doesn't like the fact he never one a playoff game in his life without Kobe, and now he simply doesn't like how he is playing this year.

My advice to him is grow a set, knock someone on their ***, confront a teammate, and make someone your ***** 1 on 1 in a game. You do that and you get more touches, respect, and another label that isn't soft plain and simple

Lakersfan2483
03-08-2010, 09:04 PM
Real Talk,

Pau averages the same number of shots that he always has (13) in LA as opposed to the 15 he took in Memphis. He had never gotten off more than 15 shots in his career.

Pau on the 8 game road trip shot 44% while Kobe shot 46% even with the bad Cleveland game.

On the 3 game road trip Pau shot 44% due in large part to last night as he was in the 30s before it.

Pau never scored off any post up in yesterdays game. He got stripped and blocked during that time. He scored off Kobe dishes, a Fisher fast break, and put backs from Kobe shots in the 4th. He simply couldn't take Dwight one on one and in all honsety the Lakers best quarter was with Kobe ball as they were down 10 heading into the 4th with Kobe taking 14 shots and having 6 assists.

Pau's FG percentage has dropped month by month.

He has missed crucial free throws.

He has not performed well in big games.

He has been called soft, weak, and sickly while being benched by his coach in 3 fourth quarters, and Phil brought in Oakley in hopes of toughening him up.

He hasn't played PF well at all in LA; he has been much better at center.

Fact is Pau has never said the words "I haven't played well". He blamed Shannon for the loss in Boston without Kobe. He went to the media and said he didn't like Phil calling him out with verbal jabs. He has taken jabs at Kobe, and he has said the other guys need to play the right way to win (inside-out thru him), never him.

He just won't man up and say I haven't played well. I have declined efficiency wise. I messed up by admittedly not training my body to play this summer for Spain or this season. I ****ed my team over by admittedly sitting out a quarter of the year "to be safe with my hamstrings and not because they hurt".

Fact is Pau's play really has dipped hard this year especially after signing that Tim Duncan and KG like contract extension.

He can blame Kobe, Phil, and everyone down to Jeanie. He can *****, moan, and cry all he wants but it is up to him to step his play up. You earn touches, you earn respect, and you earn trust. Him going media whore gets him none of that and honestly helps him and the team in no way.

Yeah you can say but you don't win without Pau; that is true.

You can say without Kobe LA went 4-1; I can also point out Pau shot 45% without Kobe in the lineup and even with Pau missing a quarter of the season Kobe still had LA with the number 1 record by using Bynum as the 2nd option.

Ask yourself if this team would be better if Pau could play high-low instead of setting up on the right block across from Bynum on the right block much like Horace Grant. Has Pau tried to play that role? No. He tries to play like a center and mucks the offense and defense up right with Bynum till Lamar enters for one of them.

Pau needs to look in the mirror is all I'm saying as the overwhelming majority of LA's problems fall squarely on his shoulders since they would have chemistry if he played when he was admittedly healthy enough to play, and they would also be healthier had Kobe, Lamar, Drew, and Ron all not logged heavy minutes early because he wanted "to be safe".

Farmar could pay attention to details sure. Brown could reel in on his chucking. Lamar could actually come into the season in shape instead of playing his way into shape and flipping a switch in January. Drew could focus on defense and rebounding. Fisher could go in search of a fountain of youth or ask for his minutes to be reduced. Phil could not call his players out in the public or call timeouts. Kobe could try to quell his competitive instincts of taking over by himself when down. Artest could get rid of those cheap shoes. Luke could find a way to fight Bill's genes. Sasha could find his inner pest. They all have something that they can do better and at one part or another everyone of them has owned up to that and accepted criticism throughout this year except Pau.

He doesn't like to be called soft, he doesn't like to be reminded that he didn't win the gold medal since he didn't play, he doesn't like the fact he never one a playoff game in his life without Kobe, and now he simply doesn't like how he is playing this year.

My advice to him is grow a set, knock someone on their ***, confront a teammate, and make someone your ***** 1 on 1 in a game. You do that and you get more touches, respect, and another label that isn't soft plain and simple

:clap: Pretty much sums up the entire thread.

PLAYERS FAN
03-08-2010, 09:47 PM
the pussification of pau gasoft has been a sad sight to see. if he wants the ball then do something about it when you get the ball not just fall down

Gasol is the softest all-star of all-time!

HoopsDrive
03-08-2010, 09:51 PM
:clap: Pretty much sums up the entire thread.

Ouch at your quoted post.

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 09:52 PM
Pau is shooting 51% from the floor and declining. He is shooting a crummy mid-range percentage, which has destroyed our spacing and the P&R game. Every time Kobe/Odom feed him the ball, he gets pushed out of position and has to take up valuable time on the clock just to get scared of being the man and ends up passing the ball out.

Pau's actions and words are on the two complete opposite ends of the spectrum. He gets the ball, plays scared, and defers, but then *****es and complains. Is he trying to create a media driven scape-goat? Probably, but that is a low blow, Pau. The Zen Master has even been solely calling you out the past couple weeks for the poor brand of basketball being displayed.

E.O.21
03-08-2010, 09:55 PM
Bottom line: KB needs to trust his teammates at crunch time

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 09:57 PM
I wouldn't say "LA Fans" but more like "Kobe" fans. There is a site called Lakersground but if you read it, all they do is put blame on everyone not named Kobe. At first it was Odom and then Byum and not it's all Gasol. He gets called "Gasoft" all day on that board lol

That is false.

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 09:59 PM
Bottom line: KB needs to trust his teammates at crunch time

Bottom line: They need to do something to gain his trust (ie not miss dunks, open perimeter shots, and defer to him when they have solid looks/position).

E.O.21
03-08-2010, 10:05 PM
Bottom line: They need to do something to gain his trust (ie not miss dunks, open perimeter shots, and defer to him when they have solid looks/position).

how bout fish... leave em open and he will knock it down

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 10:06 PM
how bout fish... leave em open and he will knock it down

No. Not at all. Fisher has transgressed as a shooter. He is shooting 36% from three this season. Very bad for a dude who is just out there to space the floor.

Zefflin
03-08-2010, 10:15 PM
Yeah ^^^, I just hope Fish is saving himself come playoff time, like usual.

E.O.21
03-08-2010, 10:15 PM
Ill give u that. KB dosent have good shooters around him

GspLAL
03-08-2010, 10:39 PM
What annoys me the most is every time Pau gets slightly bumped HE ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR, damn man the **** up already.

iggypop123
03-08-2010, 10:49 PM
No. Not at all. Fisher has transgressed as a shooter. He is shooting 36% from three this season. Very bad for a dude who is just out there to space the floor.

he has actually shot well the past few games. his only crime was his feet are too big, he stepped on that line

Avenged
03-08-2010, 10:51 PM
Gasol should know his role and shut his mouth! :laugh2:

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 10:53 PM
Dont tell me gasol is going to lead the lakers to a championship? He couldnt even lead memphis for a .500 winning percentage

what are you talking about? he led Memphis into the playoffs THREE times. THREE TIMES. and i like to note Kobe couldn't get pass the 1st round until Pau Gasol came around.

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 10:55 PM
the pussification of pau gasoft has been a sad sight to see. if he wants the ball then do something about it when you get the ball not just fall down

it's kinda hard to "demand" the ball when the coach, who calls the play, call plays for Kobe all the time

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 10:57 PM
I wouldn't say "LA Fans" but more like "Kobe" fans. There is a site called Lakersground but if you read it, all they do is put blame on everyone not named Kobe. At first it was Odom and then Byum and not it's all Gasol. He gets called "Gasoft" all day on that board lol

the Rockets forum had the same problem with "tmac fan boys." good thing there's enough real Rockets fan to counter them. and good thing we don't have that problem anymore now that Tmac is traded.

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 10:57 PM
Gasol Gallego is not as consistent only shows up when his playing weak centers. And if whe wasn't so soft we would probably have 2 championships. he needs to critisize his defense as well cause that **** is just awfull

if it wasn't for him coming to the team, the Lakers probably would've never made it out of the 1st round.

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 10:59 PM
trade his f'n butt

yes. please. trade him to Houston.

_KB24_
03-08-2010, 11:03 PM
if it wasn't for him coming to the team, the Lakers probably would've never made it out of the 1st round.

Your telling me the 08 team before Gasol came was not good enough to win it all? How about last year with Odom instead of Gasol? :facepalm:

_KB24_
03-08-2010, 11:04 PM
what are you talking about? he led Memphis into the playoffs THREE times. THREE TIMES. and i like to note Kobe couldn't get pass the 1st round until Pau Gasol came around.

Do you remember how many games Gasol won before joining the Lakers in the playoffs? Do you?

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 11:06 PM
what are you talking about? he led Memphis into the playoffs THREE times. THREE TIMES. and i like to note Kobe couldn't get pass the 1st round until Pau Gasol came around.

Not true.


it's kinda hard to "demand" the ball when the coach, who calls the play, call plays for Kobe all the time

Phil Jackson doesn't call plays. In fact, the Triangle doesn't really have "plays." It is a read and react offense that is based on instinct, cutting, and moving the ball. The Lakers do that quite nicely. Pau gets the ball a ton, he simply is ineffective with the ball and wastes many possessions by using up too much clock then trying to defer to another player. He is indecisive and downright soft in the post. Not to mention his knack for choosing to lay the ball in instead of dunking which all too often leads to a missed layup. It is becoming a disturbing trend.

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 11:06 PM
Your telling me the 08 team before Gasol came was not good enough to win it all? How about last year with Odom instead of Gasol? :facepalm:

all i know is that the Lakers didn't get out of the first round until Pau Gasol came around. that is a FACT. everything else is pure speculation. you LA fans should appreciate him more...basketball is a TEAM sport and Gasol contributes a lot to the team.

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 11:09 PM
Your telling me the 08 team before Gasol came was not good enough to win it all? How about last year with Odom instead of Gasol? :facepalm:

Just to clarify: Before Pau got traded to the Lakers and before the injury to Bynum, the Lakers had the #1 seed in the West. Kobe, Bynum, and Odom formed a pretty good triumvirate.

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 11:11 PM
all i know is that the Lakers didn't get out of the first round until Pau Gasol came around. that is a FACT. everything else is pure speculation. you LA fans should appreciate him more...basketball is a TEAM sport and Gasol contributes a lot to the team.

They won 14 championships before Gasol came around. . .

Avenged
03-08-2010, 11:11 PM
all i know is that the Lakers didn't get out of the first round until Pau Gasol came around. that is a FACT. everything else is pure speculation. you LA fans should appreciate him more...basketball is a TEAM sport and Gasol contributes a lot to the team.

The guy is very well appreciated. All he needs to do is shut up and play some damn ball. That's what irritates everyone the most. All he does is talk and complain when he's the one getting punked night in and night out.

xxseven72ducexx
03-08-2010, 11:13 PM
my boy knows a girl that he goes to school with who had sex with pau wen she went on a trip to spain...crazy

_KB24_
03-08-2010, 11:18 PM
all i know is that the Lakers didn't get out of the first round until Pau Gasol came around. that is a FACT. everything else is pure speculation. you LA fans should appreciate him more...basketball is a TEAM sport and Gasol contributes a lot to the team.

The FACT is that Gasol had 0 success in this league before joining Kobe and the Lakers. We do appreciate him, there's nothing wrong with criticizing a player, specially one who goes out to the media to discuss his issue.

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 11:19 PM
They won 14 championships before Gasol came around. . .

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

i like it to be known that this is the first time i've EVER use to facepalm smiley. EVER.

FOBolous
03-08-2010, 11:20 PM
The FACT is that Gasol had 0 success in this league before joining Kobe and the Lakers. We do appreciate him, there's nothing wrong with criticizing a player, specially one who goes out to the media to discuss his issue.

he does have a point though. when a player shot as bad as Kobe did in that game, he should defer to his teammates a little...especially when he has a player that's capable scoring 20 ppg on 50% shooting in the paint. i would be frustrated if i was him too.

_KB24_
03-08-2010, 11:29 PM
he does have a point though. when a player shot as bad as Kobe did in that game, he should defer to his teammates a little...especially when he has a player that's capable scoring 20 ppg on 50% shooting in the paint. i would be frustrated if i was him too.

You need to start watching games before you speak. Kobe got them involved in the first Bynum and Gasol, but they go completely cold the rest of the game! The third quarter was dangerously close in being a turning point in the game and the Magic were going for the kill. They were up double digits and the Lakers were struggling big time. Kobe had to shoot the Lakers back into the game. He tried to get everyone going, but missed dunks, open 3s and layups were being missed. I think Kobe should be even more aggressive early on so we don't have to dig ourselves out of a hole. And the way Gasol has been playing lately, I can't even remember the last time he had 20+ points. He should only be frustrated in himself.

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 11:29 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

i like it to be known that this is the first time i've EVER use to facepalm smiley. EVER.

You make the Lakers sound like some lowly franchise without Gasol. The Lakers have had tons of success throughout the years and are quick to rebuild. Before he was traded, the Lakers had the #1 record in the West. They were already back on top so lets not forget the Lakers have a knack for making smart decisions and being successful.

robdog_5
03-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Gasol turned the Lakers into a title contender without Gasol the Lakers would have flamed out of the playoffs again.

ARMIN12NBA
03-08-2010, 11:39 PM
he does have a point though. when a player shot as bad as Kobe did in that game, he should defer to his teammates a little...especially when he has a player that's capable scoring 20 ppg on 50% shooting in the paint. i would be frustrated if i was him too.

That is horribly inefficient for paint play...

Raph12
03-08-2010, 11:40 PM
You make the Lakers sound like some lowly franchise without Gasol. The Lakers have had tons of success throughout the years and are quick to rebuild. Before he was traded, the Lakers had the #1 record in the West. They were already back on top so lets not forget the Lakers have a knack for making smart decisions and being successful.

Plus they were 7-3 without him to start the season while Kobe led the league in scoring. 70% winning is about 57-25 (a bit higher actually), which going by last year's numbers, would still top the West.

Kobe keeps the team elite, with or without Pau.

ink
03-08-2010, 11:46 PM
Gasol is shooting 51%. You can't deny his efficiency. I for one agree with him. The Lakers have so many offensive weapons...they are much better off spreading the wealth than Kobe just chucking away 30 shots.

They were 4-1...and 4-4 since Kobe returned. Kobe needs to trust his teammates more. It's not like guys like Odom, Gasol, Artest and Bynum are Soumalia Samake, Slava Medvenko, Smush Parker or Samaki Walker-calibre. This team needs a more balanced effort.

Good post. Totally agree.

All Gasol really seems to be saying is that they should be more balanced. What's controversial about that?

Teeboy1487
03-08-2010, 11:52 PM
Good post. Totally agree.

All Gasol really seems to be saying is that they should be more balanced. What's controversial about that? Your sig is hilarious Ink :laugh:. To the thread, I'm a huge Kobe fan but there's no way he should be shooting 30 times a game. The lakers are too deep for one player to shoot 30 times. Kobe really should spread the wealth. I hate when he shoots this much especially when he misses alot of shots. However, Pau can make it better by not playing like such a weakling all the time. He needs to increase his intensity level.

Raph12
03-09-2010, 12:23 AM
Gasol is shooting 51%. You can't deny his efficiency. I for one agree with him. The Lakers have so many offensive weapons...they are much better off spreading the wealth than Kobe just chucking away 30 shots.

They were 4-1...and 4-4 since Kobe returned. Kobe needs to trust his teammates more. It's not like guys like Odom, Gasol, Artest and Bynum are Soumalia Samake, Slava Medvenko, Smush Parker or Samaki Walker-calibre. This team needs a more balanced effort.

I agree, but of the players you just listed, only Odom was able to create his own shot yesterday. Bynum and Pau combined for 0pts against Dwight in iso plays in the post, while Artest, well 2-10 speaks for itself. They are mostly just finishers, they need a facilitator to put it all together.

If Kobe can get his teammates more involved, spend more time handling and passing, rather than just scoring, the Lakers would be that much better. He needed to take over late yesterday, but in general, 20.6 shots per 36 minutes isn't too bad IMO, but 6+apg would be nicer than 4.8apg.

MacFitz92
03-09-2010, 12:24 AM
I agree with him, but...

Gasol has sure looked like a pussypants these last couple of games.

samxeyeam
03-09-2010, 12:30 AM
He didnt look pretty soft when he hacked dwight howard... LOL...
I agree with Pau though, he needs more touches... I've been saying this since last season...

FOBolous
03-09-2010, 12:44 AM
That is horribly inefficient for paint play...

still more efficient than Kobe in that game :shrug: a lot more efficient

FOBolous
03-09-2010, 12:45 AM
You make the Lakers sound like some lowly franchise without Gasol. The Lakers have had tons of success throughout the years and are quick to rebuild. Before he was traded, the Lakers had the #1 record in the West. They were already back on top so lets not forget the Lakers have a knack for making smart decisions and being successful.

they were...i mean...what do you call a team that lost in the first round of the playoffs three years in a row? than Gasol came around than BOOM! LA won a championship. i mean...he doesn't deserve ALL the credit but he deserves a large part of it.

PHX2daDEATH
03-09-2010, 12:59 AM
I do....By a long shot!

Gasol = better rebounder
Gasol = better fundamentals
Gasol = better scoring (If gasol was on the Suns his PPG would skyrocket)
Gasol = Better Passer
Gasol and Amare = subpar D.

i agree with the rest but...

Gasol is 7'0..Amare is 6'10
Gasol never averaged double digit rebounds until this season, attribute that to playing with Artest and Bynum for almost a full season..

Gasol is supposedly the number 2 option on his team,
Amare plays in an unselfish system.. Gasol should be getting more then 18 a game if he's a better scorer, right?
Amare's %'s are better than Gasol's and he's playing smaller at the Same position,

Slumberking
03-09-2010, 01:02 AM
Pau is right. The last 4 minutes of the game, the other 4 Lakers may as well just stay back on defense. Kobe pulls some really selfish shots end game. He makes a lot of them, but i think the Lakers would have a better record right now if he would consider making a pass in the last 3-4 min of a close game.

ARMIN12NBA
03-09-2010, 01:15 AM
they were...i mean...what do you call a team that lost in the first round of the playoffs three years in a row? than Gasol came around than BOOM! LA won a championship. i mean...he doesn't deserve ALL the credit but he deserves a large part of it.

Eh, the Lakers had the #1 record in the West before he came and 41 games into the season too. They were ballin as a squad and there was no doubt they would make it to at least the 2nd round.

Gasol deserves credit, but what is the argument here? Are you saying he is more important than Kobe? I don't really know what you are arguing here.

ARMIN12NBA
03-09-2010, 01:18 AM
still more efficient than Kobe in that game :shrug: a lot more efficient

It is one game. In the past two months, Pau has shot 46% and 48%. For his responsibility as an interior player, he is shooting below average. As a guard, Kobe is shooting above average. Thus, although Kobe's percentage is lower, Kobe is actually shooting better. Pau's position should be providing a higher percentage of scoring.

ARMIN12NBA
03-09-2010, 01:20 AM
Pau is right. The last 4 minutes of the game, the other 4 Lakers may as well just stay back on defense. Kobe pulls some really selfish shots end game. He makes a lot of them, but i think the Lakers would have a better record right now if he would consider making a pass in the last 3-4 min of a close game.

He does and they fail so he stops passing to them.

kblo247
03-09-2010, 01:49 AM
Pau is right. The last 4 minutes of the game, the other 4 Lakers may as well just stay back on defense. Kobe pulls some really selfish shots end game. He makes a lot of them, but i think the Lakers would have a better record right now if he would consider making a pass in the last 3-4 min of a close game.

Kobe goes to Fisher and Odom without hesitation in the final stretch of a game as well as Sasha/Luke/Ron when their 3 ball drops.

He spoon feeds Pau less this year with the game on the line but can you blame him with the way he drops the ball and misses free throws? He wouldn't give the ball to Shaq in those situations so what makes Pau different since he doesn't have nearly the same power?

Bynum doesn't play enough in the crucial moments to get it and neither does Shannon or Jordan except on rare occasions where they are hot and Phil rides them out.

Raph12
03-09-2010, 02:41 AM
He didnt look pretty soft when he hacked dwight howard... LOL...
I agree with Pau though, he needs more touches... I've been saying this since last season...

Considering Dwight finished strong and was unaffected by it, yeah he did look pretty soft.

Now if Dwight put that much force into hacking him on that end, bye bye Gasoft (concussion out 2-3 weeks) and bye bye Dwight (suspension out 1-3 games).

CAVS21
03-09-2010, 04:18 AM
Gasol has been doing a lot of damn talking this year and just needs to shut up. It seems like he got one huge ego this year after winning the title and needs to ***** and moan whenever he doesn't get his.

Just play the game.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I totally agree!!! He's too soft to be talking so much.....better be careful, Kobe might run him out of town too!! lol......btw LOVE your sig haha

JayW_1023
03-09-2010, 05:22 AM
Gasol Gallego is not as consistent only shows up when his playing weak centers. And if whe wasn't so soft we would probably have 2 championships. he needs to critisize his defense as well cause that **** is just awfull

Kobe himself was pretty passive on defense. Failing to box out Matt Marnes on a dunk. Got himself embarrassed. If Kobe took ten shots less and gave them to a Gasol, Odom, Bynum or Ron Ron... the Lakers would have alot more threats on offense. There will be more flow on offense.

Instead he let Matt Barnes get into his head, made this a mano-a-mano thing. This is what cost LA the game. Not this so-called softness you are talking about. Gasol was playing well and simply didn't get the touches he needs.

Call him whatever you want...but he is skilled enough to carry a bigger load on offense than he has in recent games. Not just in terms of scoring, but his passing is what makes the triangle dangerous.

The proof that a large chunk of the responding Laker fans failed to actually read the original post is that Gasol never asked for him to just get more touches. He called out Kobe and Jackson to find more offensive flow and have a more balanced effort. And here I agree with him most.

kblo247
03-09-2010, 05:57 AM
Kobe himself was pretty passive on defense. Failing to box out Matt Marnes on a dunk. Got himself embarrassed. If Kobe took ten shots less and gave them to a Gasol, Odom, Bynum or Ron Ron... the Lakers would have alot more threats on offense. There will be more flow on offense.

Instead he let Matt Barnes get into his head, made this a mano-a-mano thing. This is what cost LA the game. Not this so-called softness you are talking about. Gasol was playing well and simply didn't get the touches he needs.

Call him whatever you want...but he is skilled enough to carry a bigger load on offense than he has in recent games. Not just in terms of scoring, but his passing is what makes the triangle dangerous.

The proof that a large chunk of the responding Laker fans failed to actually read the original post is that Gasol never asked for him to just get more touches. He called out Kobe and Jackson to find more offensive flow and have a more balanced effort. And here I agree with him most.

You missed the point that LA was down by 10 heading into the 4th with Kobe taking 14 shots and having 6 assists at that time.

He went into gun slinger mode in the 4th. That is fact that I'm not denying. He put up 16 shots in that quarter and here's the funny thing about that selfish Kobe.

The 4th quarter, Kobe Ball to LA LA outscoring Orlando by 8 points. It also freed up Gasol to get those putbacks he got since Pau and Andrew did not score a point off of their post ups.

And you are very wrong when you harp on his skill. He is a skilled triangle center. He is not a skilled triangle PF. He has struggled all year long in that position and basically gave up on playing high-low all together. His skills and even Bynum's passing skills (which he has if you saw him without Pau) are useless at PF.

He and Bynum set up on opposite blocks and play like 2 centers with their back to the basket and clog up the paint and all driving lanes and poor spacing in general since a guy can stay at home on a shooter if they don't have to contest his jumper. Pau-Drew is simply worse on both ends and every aspect of team play their is that Lamar-Drew or Lamar-Pau. Them starting and Pau not being able to fill his role as the PF with the necessary skills makes the game more difficult for everyone on that team.

Kobe can't drive with that lineup or post up without being swarmed. Fisher keeps a defender in his lap because you simply don't have to help against them in the paint together without the floor being spread with the threat of a PF who can hit a 15 footer regularly or put the ball on the floor. Artest can't post up which he has shown to be quite effective at doing when Drew or Pau was out and he can't really cut without getting swatted because 5 guys clog the middle with Pau, Drew, their defenders, and his defender.

So yes, I'm going to ***** about him *****ing about balance when he hasn't helped create himself by not playing the PF position properly and deflecting blame in general through the media after saying he thinks Phil shouldn't go to the media about him or the team and they should handle things behind closed doors.

All that above is Pau contradicting himself and not being prepared to fulfill his role in a nut shell, and it also is why Pau isn't a captain on this team. I mean he can't have his cake and eat to by telling everyone else change your game and basically say Kobe be the facilitator/scorer/closer/leader while I not do what is supposed to be half of my job, which is to play PF to go with my time at Center.

The quick and easy fix would be starting Lamar or subbing him in early but that is just letting him off the hook for not doing his job and ultimately would only hurt the team more if Lamar was to get injured and they had to rely on Pau to be the sole PF for a whole game, which is why Phil won't bail his *** out to make him look better.

Now let me ask you, what was your point again pretending like you knew what was up since you obviously don't watch the Lakers besides on national TV?

I shall wait for your counter response ;)

Chronz
03-09-2010, 02:26 PM
I agree, but of the players you just listed, only Odom was able to create his own shot yesterday. Bynum and Pau combined for 0pts against Dwight in iso plays in the post, while Artest, well 2-10 speaks for itself. They are mostly just finishers, they need a facilitator to put it all together.

If Kobe can get his teammates more involved, spend more time handling and passing, rather than just scoring, the Lakers would be that much better. He needed to take over late yesterday, but in general, 20.6 shots per 36 minutes isn't too bad IMO, but 6+apg would be nicer than 4.8apg.
They didnt run enough ISO sets for Gasol is the point. LOL at them not being creators. Paus track record speaks for itself, he was an All-Star BEFORE Kobe.

MagicDojo
03-09-2010, 03:34 PM
I have enjoyed all 9 pages of this thread. It makes me feel happy and full of joy.

Raph12
03-09-2010, 04:05 PM
They didnt run enough ISO sets for Gasol is the point. LOL at them not being creators. Paus track record speaks for itself, he was an All-Star BEFORE Kobe.

I said yesterday (against the Magic), Dwight locks them down in iso plays, maybe they could go to him more when Lewis is matched up with him.

But in general, I don't think 20.6FGA and 6.8FTA per 36mins is that bad.

Chronz
03-09-2010, 04:25 PM
I said yesterday (against the Magic), Dwight locks them down in iso plays, maybe they could go to him more when Lewis is matched up with him.

But in general, I don't think 20.6FGA and 6.8FTA per 36mins is that bad.
Whether its Dwight or Rashard, though especially when its Shard, they should go to the bigs. Even Bynum, I dont think Pau is talking about just this game. The offense hasnt looked fluid all year.

It wouldnt be if he got to the line more, but Kobe shouldnt be leading the league in FG/A with the lineup he has.

JayW_1023
03-09-2010, 04:27 PM
You missed the point that LA was down by 10 heading into the 4th with Kobe taking 14 shots and having 6 assists at that time.

He went into gun slinger mode in the 4th. That is fact that I'm not denying. He put up 16 shots in that quarter and here's the funny thing about that selfish Kobe.

The 4th quarter, Kobe Ball to LA LA outscoring Orlando by 8 points. It also freed up Gasol to get those putbacks he got since Pau and Andrew did not score a point off of their post ups.

And you are very wrong when you harp on his skill. He is a skilled triangle center. He is not a skilled triangle PF. He has struggled all year long in that position and basically gave up on playing high-low all together. His skills and even Bynum's passing skills (which he has if you saw him without Pau) are useless at PF.

He and Bynum set up on opposite blocks and play like 2 centers with their back to the basket and clog up the paint and all driving lanes and poor spacing in general since a guy can stay at home on a shooter if they don't have to contest his jumper. Pau-Drew is simply worse on both ends and every aspect of team play their is that Lamar-Drew or Lamar-Pau. Them starting and Pau not being able to fill his role as the PF with the necessary skills makes the game more difficult for everyone on that team.

Kobe can't drive with that lineup or post up without being swarmed. Fisher keeps a defender in his lap because you simply don't have to help against them in the paint together without the floor being spread with the threat of a PF who can hit a 15 footer regularly or put the ball on the floor. Artest can't post up which he has shown to be quite effective at doing when Drew or Pau was out and he can't really cut without getting swatted because 5 guys clog the middle with Pau, Drew, their defenders, and his defender.

So yes, I'm going to ***** about him *****ing about balance when he hasn't helped create himself by not playing the PF position properly and deflecting blame in general through the media after saying he thinks Phil shouldn't go to the media about him or the team and they should handle things behind closed doors.

All that above is Pau contradicting himself and not being prepared to fulfill his role in a nut shell, and it also is why Pau isn't a captain on this team. I mean he can't have his cake and eat to by telling everyone else change your game and basically say Kobe be the facilitator/scorer/closer/leader while I not do what is supposed to be half of my job, which is to play PF to go with my time at Center.

The quick and easy fix would be starting Lamar or subbing him in early but that is just letting him off the hook for not doing his job and ultimately would only hurt the team more if Lamar was to get injured and they had to rely on Pau to be the sole PF for a whole game, which is why Phil won't bail his *** out to make him look better.

Now let me ask you, what was your point again pretending like you knew what was up since you obviously don't watch the Lakers besides on national TV?

I shall wait for your counter response ;)

Nonetheless, some of the shots Kobe took were ridiculous. Of course, you could argue that because Kobe is the best offensive player, he is entitled to be a lone gunman. That's where I disagree. I believe that with all the talent on that team spreading the wealth will not only make the offense more tricky, but will also give better results.

Sure it is impressive Kobe shot the team back in it, but no matter how good you are individually, you can't rely on one guy when you have four or five other guys who can carry some of the offensive load with you. I just don't see what you saw in crunch time. Kobe in defacto bailed the Orlando D out by going at it alone. The ball stopped and the Lakers offense became a one man show. Kobe looked like he only trusted himself to bring in the W. Surely, he is good enough that he can win a game by himself. But if The Lakers live and die by this Kobe-centric philsophy they won't beat Dallas or Denver in a seven game series.

The only reason Gasol and Bynum doesn't work is because Bynum doesn't play well consistently on offense. Alot of times his eyes are fixated on the basket. He loses defensive focus and gets himself in foul trouble because of it. The reason why Odom and Gasol work well together has nothing to do with their position, but because they both have an unselfish mentality...they try to make the right play at the right time. Both are willing passers. It has absolutely nothing to do with Gasol sucking at playing PF or anything like that.

The triange is about moving the ball and creating space for teammates. The Lakers' best facilitator here is Kobe Bryant. Fisher is nothing but a stationary shooter most of the time. It is Kobe's responsibility to find his teammates...look for them, since he brings up the ball alot. But In the fourth he abandoned the triangle to look for his own shot a little more than i would like. He wasn't shooting well, so he should've recognized it was a good time to get his teammates involved.

So again, I agree with Gasol. If there was more ball movement and more flow, the Lakers would be a much more dangerous team. This is what won them a title last season. Against the Nuggets a week and a half ago, Kobe has a sub-par scoring night...but he kept facilitating and involving his teammates. Along with Artests D on Carmelo (fouling him out) this mentality won The Lakers the game. Kobe needs to pick his spots more like last year and allow the offense to flow more. Since he is back from injury he has been forcing it, and it has impacted the teams momentum in a negative way.

It starts with Kobe and it ends with Kobe...that's why his mentality is so integral to his teams succes. But the way he played against Orlando resembles the Kobe of old more than the unselfish Kobe we have seen the past two years.

magichatnumber9
03-09-2010, 04:39 PM
Why does it have to be so controversial to talk about Kobe?

Chronz
03-09-2010, 04:40 PM
Why does it have to be so controversial to talk about Kobe?

Because he can do no wrong and every shot he chucks is justified.

JayW_1023
03-09-2010, 04:43 PM
Probably because Kobe is one of the most enigmatic superstars in league history. That makes him intriguing to watch. Sometimes I grow really frustrated and :facepalm:-ed with the way he plays...but other times I just marvel in awe watching him take over games.

Avenged
03-09-2010, 04:49 PM
Because he can do no wrong and every shot he chucks is justified.

:laugh2:

That is certainly how the laker homers feel.

JayW_1023
03-09-2010, 04:51 PM
I like LeBrons game a bit more because he just plays more in a flow. When he needs to pass he passes. When he needs to score he scores. It's consistent and he makes it look easy. Of course his flaw is his tendency to shoot too many outside shots. But his focus more on reading the game instead of 'taking over no matter what', what Kobe often does with moderate success.

With Kobe it's more complicated. There are games where he plays great simply with his presence on the floor. He looks to control all aspects of the game and many times with success. But other times he seems to force the issue...he will take over...but he doesn't pick his spots accordingly. In these situations his game can become disruptive at the expense of his team.

Stay_Swim
03-09-2010, 05:01 PM
Real Talk,

Pau averages the same number of shots that he always has (13) in LA as opposed to the 15 he took in Memphis. He had never gotten off more than 15 shots in his career.

Pau on the 8 game road trip shot 44% while Kobe shot 46% even with the bad Cleveland game.

On the 3 game road trip Pau shot 44% due in large part to last night as he was in the 30s before it.

Pau never scored off any post up in yesterdays game. He got stripped and blocked during that time. He scored off Kobe dishes, a Fisher fast break, and put backs from Kobe shots in the 4th. He simply couldn't take Dwight one on one and in all honsety the Lakers best quarter was with Kobe ball as they were down 10 heading into the 4th with Kobe taking 14 shots and having 6 assists.

Pau's FG percentage has dropped month by month.

He has missed crucial free throws.

He has not performed well in big games.

He has been called soft, weak, and sickly while being benched by his coach in 3 fourth quarters, and Phil brought in Oakley in hopes of toughening him up.

He hasn't played PF well at all in LA; he has been much better at center.

Fact is Pau has never said the words "I haven't played well". He blamed Shannon for the loss in Boston without Kobe. He went to the media and said he didn't like Phil calling him out with verbal jabs. He has taken jabs at Kobe, and he has said the other guys need to play the right way to win (inside-out thru him), never him.

He just won't man up and say I haven't played well. I have declined efficiency wise. I messed up by admittedly not training my body to play this summer for Spain or this season. I ****ed my team over by admittedly sitting out a quarter of the year "to be safe with my hamstrings and not because they hurt".

Fact is Pau's play really has dipped hard this year especially after signing that Tim Duncan and KG like contract extension.

He can blame Kobe, Phil, and everyone down to Jeanie. He can *****, moan, and cry all he wants but it is up to him to step his play up. You earn touches, you earn respect, and you earn trust. Him going media whore gets him none of that and honestly helps him and the team in no way.

Yeah you can say but you don't win without Pau; that is true.

You can say without Kobe LA went 4-1; I can also point out Pau shot 45% without Kobe in the lineup and even with Pau missing a quarter of the season Kobe still had LA with the number 1 record by using Bynum as the 2nd option.

Ask yourself if this team would be better if Pau could play high-low instead of setting up on the right block across from Bynum on the right block much like Horace Grant. Has Pau tried to play that role? No. He tries to play like a center and mucks the offense and defense up right with Bynum till Lamar enters for one of them.

Pau needs to look in the mirror is all I'm saying as the overwhelming majority of LA's problems fall squarely on his shoulders since they would have chemistry if he played when he was admittedly healthy enough to play, and they would also be healthier had Kobe, Lamar, Drew, and Ron all not logged heavy minutes early because he wanted "to be safe".

Farmar could pay attention to details sure. Brown could reel in on his chucking. Lamar could actually come into the season in shape instead of playing his way into shape and flipping a switch in January. Drew could focus on defense and rebounding. Fisher could go in search of a fountain of youth or ask for his minutes to be reduced. Phil could not call his players out in the public or call timeouts. Kobe could try to quell his competitive instincts of taking over by himself when down. Artest could get rid of those cheap shoes. Luke could find a way to fight Bill's genes. Sasha could find his inner pest. They all have something that they can do better and at one part or another everyone of them has owned up to that and accepted criticism throughout this year except Pau.

He doesn't like to be called soft, he doesn't like to be reminded that he didn't win the gold medal since he didn't play, he doesn't like the fact he never one a playoff game in his life without Kobe, and now he simply doesn't like how he is playing this year.

My advice to him is grow a set, knock someone on their ***, confront a teammate, and make someone your ***** 1 on 1 in a game. You do that and you get more touches, respect, and another label that isn't soft plain and simple

x2

ko8e24
03-09-2010, 05:05 PM
I say the Lakers trade Kobe for a box of pop tarts so that Mr. Gasol gets all the touches he wants and gets to eat his pre-game meal.

D1JM
03-09-2010, 05:12 PM
I say the Lakers trade Kobe for a box of pop tarts so that Mr. Gasol gets all the touches he wants and gets to eat his pre-game meal.

to the bulls?

kblo247
03-09-2010, 06:16 PM
Nonetheless, some of the shots Kobe took were ridiculous. Of course, you could argue that because Kobe is the best offensive player, he is entitled to be a lone gunman. That's where I disagree. I believe that with all the talent on that team spreading the wealth will not only make the offense more tricky, but will also give better results.

Sure it is impressive Kobe shot the team back in it, but no matter how good you are individually, you can't rely on one guy when you have four or five other guys who can carry some of the offensive load with you. I just don't see what you saw in crunch time. Kobe in defacto bailed the Orlando D out by going at it alone. The ball stopped and the Lakers offense became a one man show. Kobe looked like he only trusted himself to bring in the W. Surely, he is good enough that he can win a game by himself. But if The Lakers live and die by this Kobe-centric philsophy they won't beat Dallas or Denver in a seven game series.

The only reason Gasol and Bynum doesn't work is because Bynum doesn't play well consistently on offense. Alot of times his eyes are fixated on the basket. He loses defensive focus and gets himself in foul trouble because of it. The reason why Odom and Gasol work well together has nothing to do with their position, but because they both have an unselfish mentality...they try to make the right play at the right time. Both are willing passers. It has absolutely nothing to do with Gasol sucking at playing PF or anything like that.

The triange is about moving the ball and creating space for teammates. The Lakers' best facilitator here is Kobe Bryant. Fisher is nothing but a stationary shooter most of the time. It is Kobe's responsibility to find his teammates...look for them, since he brings up the ball alot. But In the fourth he abandoned the triangle to look for his own shot a little more than i would like. He wasn't shooting well, so he should've recognized it was a good time to get his teammates involved.

So again, I agree with Gasol. If there was more ball movement and more flow, the Lakers would be a much more dangerous team. This is what won them a title last season. Against the Nuggets a week and a half ago, Kobe has a sub-par scoring night...but he kept facilitating and involving his teammates. Along with Artests D on Carmelo (fouling him out) this mentality won The Lakers the game. Kobe needs to pick his spots more like last year and allow the offense to flow more. Since he is back from injury he has been forcing it, and it has impacted the teams momentum in a negative way.

It starts with Kobe and it ends with Kobe...that's why his mentality is so integral to his teams succes. But the way he played against Orlando resembles the Kobe of old more than the unselfish Kobe we have seen the past two years.

I'm not disputing about the shot quality because the fact is he makes, takes, and misses the most difficult shots in the league and has been that way ever since he was a rook.

Kobe-Centric won't beat Denver no doubt and Kobe knows that which is why he attacks them how he does, perfectly blended scoring and facilitating.

Fisher and Artest both had double digit attempts in that game. In fact Fisher shot the 2nd most shots and Ron was 2-10 and hasn't shot well since hurting his thumb which he has heavily wrapped up. Pau and Bynum went 0-fer on attempts and points against Dwight one on one that is a fact as all their point were putbacks or spoon feeds by Kobe/Fish. You can say Kobe needed to get Lamar the ball more often and I won't disagree since he played well outside that missed dunk.

Kobe led spurts or chucking as you put it is what beat Orlando. In game 1 of the finals last year he went Kobe ball and beat them. In game 2 he did it again as well as reverted to it in game 4 to give his team and Fish the chance to win it. LA couldn't win a game versus Orlando last year running team ball so Phil went Kobe Ball in the Finals first and the team second, just check his attempts in that series and see how team ball got them beat in Game 3 as well.

Dallas is a whole different beast as he has historically beat them by scoring first for well over 10 years, yet the Butler deal changes that since he has historically had success against Caron by facilitating first so that is a wait and see.

The thing is that different approaches beat different teams. Kobe attacking is what is best to beat the Spurs, Jazz, and Magic. Kobe facilitating beats the Cavs. Kobe blending the two facets beats Denver and Boston. That is just how things historically are, and like I said we will wait and see about Dallas.

No, you are wrong about Pau and Drew. Pau doesn't have a jumper this year and plays in the opposite post with his back to the basket like Kobe did without him at the beginning of the year. The difference is he isn't quick enough with his decisions to do that. Both play well when Lamar enters to spread the floor, cut, and pass. They simply don't click and Bynum isn't the only one to blame for that since Pau didn't practice that jumper and come ready to play the game in the high post from a face up position.

No dispute about Kobe being necessary to facilitate the O, but the fact is Kobe doesn't handle the ball nearly as mush as he did 2 years ago or last year till they get in the half court. Farmar and Brown handle it when he plays SF and Lamar has played guard to keep him more involved a lot of the year which is why he has so many 3s attempted this season. He and Fish handle it exclusively in the fourth and for the first part of a game though without a doubt but he really doesn't handle the ball for more than about 18 minutes a night unlike in his 3 peat days.

The buck goes 2 ways. If Kobe is too aggressive, then Pau is too passive and needs to make moves happen when he has the ball and not settle for layups that he blows or gets blocked as well as holding the ball to be stripped. He is the second best player on that team yet he is never held or holds himself accountable for their struggles. You can't get second star status and the like for only winning. You have to also be able to lead and be counted on in crucial moments and by Phil's own accounts Pau isn't and that is why he still hasn't been given the role of a leader or captain.

The team has room to improve without a doubt by everyone, not just Kobe yet like you say he is an enigma and tends to get all the blame when they lose and discredited because of who he plays with they win and always has been.

JayW_1023
03-09-2010, 07:19 PM
I'm not disputing about the shot quality because the fact is he makes, takes, and misses the most difficult shots in the league and has been that way ever since he was a rook.

Kobe-Centric won't beat Denver no doubt and Kobe knows that which is why he attacks them how he does, perfectly blended scoring and facilitating.

Fisher and Artest both had double digit attempts in that game. In fact Fisher shot the 2nd most shots and Ron was 2-10 and hasn't shot well since hurting his thumb which he has heavily wrapped up. Pau and Bynum went 0-fer on attempts and points against Dwight one on one that is a fact as all their point were putbacks or spoon feeds by Kobe/Fish. You can say Kobe needed to get Lamar the ball more often and I won't disagree since he played well outside that missed dunk.

Kobe led spurts or chucking as you put it is what beat Orlando. In game 1 of the finals last year he went Kobe ball and beat them. In game 2 he did it again as well as reverted to it in game 4 to give his team and Fish the chance to win it. LA couldn't win a game versus Orlando last year running team ball so Phil went Kobe Ball in the Finals first and the team second, just check his attempts in that series and see how team ball got them beat in Game 3 as well.

Dallas is a whole different beast as he has historically beat them by scoring first for well over 10 years, yet the Butler deal changes that since he has historically had success against Caron by facilitating first so that is a wait and see.

The thing is that different approaches beat different teams. Kobe attacking is what is best to beat the Spurs, Jazz, and Magic. Kobe facilitating beats the Cavs. Kobe blending the two facets beats Denver and Boston. That is just how things historically are, and like I said we will wait and see about Dallas.

No, you are wrong about Pau and Drew. Pau doesn't have a jumper this year and plays in the opposite post with his back to the basket like Kobe did without him at the beginning of the year. The difference is he isn't quick enough with his decisions to do that. Both play well when Lamar enters to spread the floor, cut, and pass. They simply don't click and Bynum isn't the only one to blame for that since Pau didn't practice that jumper and come ready to play the game in the high post from a face up position.

No dispute about Kobe being necessary to facilitate the O, but the fact is Kobe doesn't handle the ball nearly as mush as he did 2 years ago or last year till they get in the half court. Farmar and Brown handle it when he plays SF and Lamar has played guard to keep him more involved a lot of the year which is why he has so many 3s attempted this season. He and Fish handle it exclusively in the fourth and for the first part of a game though without a doubt but he really doesn't handle the ball for more than about 18 minutes a night unlike in his 3 peat days.

The buck goes 2 ways. If Kobe is too aggressive, then Pau is too passive and needs to make moves happen when he has the ball and not settle for layups that he blows or gets blocked as well as holding the ball to be stripped. He is the second best player on that team yet he is never held or holds himself accountable for their struggles. You can't get second star status and the like for only winning. You have to also be able to lead and be counted on in crucial moments and by Phil's own accounts Pau isn't and that is why he still hasn't been given the role of a leader or captain.

The team has room to improve without a doubt by everyone, not just Kobe yet like you say he is an enigma and tends to get all the blame when they lose and discredited because of who he plays with they win and always has been.

Still there is no reason for Kobe to average over 20 plus shots a game on a team loaded like that. Whomever plays best with whom is up for Phil Jackson to decide. Although I do agree that Gasol and Lamar work better in the scheme of the triange because of their mobility and court vision.

But Kobe's shooting percentage is down. It's a fact that they are not as efficient on offense as last year. And you can't deny forever that Kobe has to take some of the blame. I know he is tough and competitive, but he needs to make better decisions and not always chuck away like that. He has two skilled seven footers with soft hands around the basket to get a high percentage look almost anytime down the floor. Not many superstars can say they have that on their team.

The reason why Dirk has been successful with the Mavs now is because he is picking his spots. He is their fail safe scorer. But he isn't forcing anything. If Kobe would do the same, like last year he would be much more consistent, dominant and efficient. Right now he is kind of playing out of control...and since he isn't completely healthy yet, it's hurting the team. I'm suprised really because he is smarter than that. Especially at a point of his career where he has to rely more on his skills than his athleticism.


It just annoys me that Gasol always gets the blame for not being aggressive. I'd be frustrated too if I got 15 shot attempts one game and 7 shot attempts the next. This clearly means you're not getting involved in a consistent basis. Kobe is not the only one to blame, but he is part of it. Artest and Fisher too have been shooting erraticly lately. Too many ISO and screen&rolls and not enough ball movement and team basketball.

The Lakers need to find the way to make the game easier for one another...because right now they are their own worst enemy.

E.O.21
03-09-2010, 08:15 PM
I like LeBrons game a bit more because he just plays more in a flow. When he needs to pass he passes. When he needs to score he scores. It's consistent and he makes it look easy. Of course his flaw is his tendency to shoot too many outside shots. But his focus more on reading the game instead of 'taking over no matter what', what Kobe often does with moderate success.

With Kobe it's more complicated. There are games where he plays great simply with his presence on the floor. He looks to control all aspects of the game and many times with success. But other times he seems to force the issue...he will take over...but he doesn't pick his spots accordingly. In these situations his game can become disruptive at the expense of his team.

:clap: And thats what separates him from kobe

Storch
03-09-2010, 08:51 PM
:clap: And thats what separates him from kobe

hmmmmmm

kblo247
03-09-2010, 09:41 PM
Still there is no reason for Kobe to average over 20 plus shots a game on a team loaded like that. Whomever plays best with whom is up for Phil Jackson to decide. Although I do agree that Gasol and Lamar work better in the scheme of the triange because of their mobility and court vision.

But Kobe's shooting percentage is down. It's a fact that they are not as efficient on offense as last year. And you can't deny forever that Kobe has to take some of the blame. I know he is tough and competitive, but he needs to make better decisions and not always chuck away like that. He has two skilled seven footers with soft hands around the basket to get a high percentage look almost anytime down the floor. Not many superstars can say they have that on their team.

The reason why Dirk has been successful with the Mavs now is because he is picking his spots. He is their fail safe scorer. But he isn't forcing anything. If Kobe would do the same, like last year he would be much more consistent, dominant and efficient. Right now he is kind of playing out of control...and since he isn't completely healthy yet, it's hurting the team. I'm suprised really because he is smarter than that. Especially at a point of his career where he has to rely more on his skills than his athleticism.


It just annoys me that Gasol always gets the blame for not being aggressive. I'd be frustrated too if I got 15 shot attempts one game and 7 shot attempts the next. This clearly means you're not getting involved in a consistent basis. Kobe is not the only one to blame, but he is part of it. Artest and Fisher too have been shooting erraticly lately. Too many ISO and screen&rolls and not enough ball movement and team basketball.

The Lakers need to find the way to make the game easier for one another...because right now they are their own worst enemy.

Kobe has blame to shoulder as does everyone else, but it is bull **** that you can talk like Kobe chooses when Pau shoot the ball or not. For the guards and Odom you can make the argument since he delivers it to them for jumpers or cuts, but you can't speak about Pau or Drew since they get post touches. Pau especially gets touches, holds the ball, and then either flips a shot or throw it to Kobe/Fish if the clock runs down to bail him out.

You keep ducking Pau not being a good triangle PF, perhaps because you have no counter argument right?

Does Kobe really shoot more than other top scorers? I mean yes he averages 2 more shots than Lebron and Durant, 1 more than Melo while playing 39 minutes and he takes bail out shots. Anyone who watches LA knows that they, particularly Farmar throw him the ball with clock at 5 seconds or less. In fact, Kobe's shots per minute ratio are still the same this year as last year; he just plays more time with Walton out as backup SF.

You really can't compare Dirk to him either since Dirk plays with Kidd to set him up and is a PF which means he isn't asked to do anything close to a point forward for that matter.

Yeah, the percentage is down by 1% (47 to 46) form last year but it is still better than his career average. If you call out his percentages, go to Pau's production as well:

March - 12 shots per, 48.9%, and 14ppg
February - 14 shots per, 48.8%, and 17ppg
January - 13 shots per, 50.2%, and 18ppg
December - 12 shots per, 53.2%, and 17ppg
November - 12 shots per, 59%, and 18ppg

That is declining play and not good for a guy who plays within 10 feet of the goal whether you want to admit it or not, and as for the 2 bigs argument it doesn't matter when both bigs would rather play without the other and change the whole way the team operates on both ends by being on the floor together. Using your own analogy with Dirk, why didn't he make a concerted effort or get the blame when Howard and Marion didn't click? It was a rhetorical question btw as we know he didn't catch the blame because he can't control if two players with similar sweet spots and who normally play the same position clash and can't play together.

Now back to the offense as a whole. They are inefficient because Fish is shooting in the mid 30s. They are also ineffectivecient because they don't have the trio of Radmanovic, Sasha, and Fisher hitting the 3 at a high clip like in the past. They are also largely inefficient because the best guy on the team at running the offense and combating zones in Luke Walton has missed the majority of the year.

You whole misguided belief that they win simply because Kobe's team is talented and lose because Kobe doesn't use that talent is mind boggling since Kobe and the team both need to take accountability not just in wins but in losses.

My main beef even a day later with Pau is that Phil and the players had a meeting to air out all grievances after the loss to the Bobcats. Phil said that Kobe, Fisher, and Powell talked the most, the other guys all chimed in, but Pau said he had no complaints. You don't sit there and say nothing and then ***** the next day conveniently in the media when the guy who Phil has praised all year for being tough and a leader (Kobe) while also calling him soft and saying that he has not played well this year. If you have something to say you tell all the guys to their faces like everyone else and not go to the media after going to the media earlier this year and saying this team and Phil should not air their laundry in the media. My main beef right now is that he doesn't take blame whatsoever (Mem-Kobe can focus on winning) (Boston- Shannon should have sealed his man and caught the pass) and that he doesn't practice what he preaches as he is the only player who passes blame in the media this year whenever they lose. Would that or would that not piss you off too?

Summary of what I'm saying if you don't want to read the whole thing


It's unfortunate that, no matter how much we share the ball, it doesn't change the fact that we've got one too many post players and not enough good shooters. It's just a natural personnel flaw that greatly hampers our ability to execute.

avon_barksdale
03-09-2010, 10:42 PM
Maaaan this spaniard needs to shut his llama lips and play.... Be glad Kobe got you a ring son

JayW_1023
03-10-2010, 07:49 AM
Kobe has blame to shoulder as does everyone else, but it is bull **** that you can talk like Kobe chooses when Pau shoot the ball or not. For the guards and Odom you can make the argument since he delivers it to them for jumpers or cuts, but you can't speak about Pau or Drew since they get post touches. Pau especially gets touches, holds the ball, and then either flips a shot or throw it to Kobe/Fish if the clock runs down to bail him out.

You keep ducking Pau not being a good triangle PF, perhaps because you have no counter argument right?

Does Kobe really shoot more than other top scorers? I mean yes he averages 2 more shots than Lebron and Durant, 1 more than Melo while playing 39 minutes and he takes bail out shots. Anyone who watches LA knows that they, particularly Farmar throw him the ball with clock at 5 seconds or less. In fact, Kobe's shots per minute ratio are still the same this year as last year; he just plays more time with Walton out as backup SF.

You really can't compare Dirk to him either since Dirk plays with Kidd to set him up and is a PF which means he isn't asked to do anything close to a point forward for that matter.

Yeah, the percentage is down by 1% (47 to 46) form last year but it is still better than his career average. If you call out his percentages, go to Pau's production as well:

March - 12 shots per, 48.9%, and 14ppg
February - 14 shots per, 48.8%, and 17ppg
January - 13 shots per, 50.2%, and 18ppg
December - 12 shots per, 53.2%, and 17ppg
November - 12 shots per, 59%, and 18ppg

That is declining play and not good for a guy who plays within 10 feet of the goal whether you want to admit it or not, and as for the 2 bigs argument it doesn't matter when both bigs would rather play without the other and change the whole way the team operates on both ends by being on the floor together. Using your own analogy with Dirk, why didn't he make a concerted effort or get the blame when Howard and Marion didn't click? It was a rhetorical question btw as we know he didn't catch the blame because he can't control if two players with similar sweet spots and who normally play the same position clash and can't play together.

Now back to the offense as a whole. They are inefficient because Fish is shooting in the mid 30s. They are also ineffectivecient because they don't have the trio of Radmanovic, Sasha, and Fisher hitting the 3 at a high clip like in the past. They are also largely inefficient because the best guy on the team at running the offense and combating zones in Luke Walton has missed the majority of the year.

You whole misguided belief that they win simply because Kobe's team is talented and lose because Kobe doesn't use that talent is mind boggling since Kobe and the team both need to take accountability not just in wins but in losses.

My main beef even a day later with Pau is that Phil and the players had a meeting to air out all grievances after the loss to the Bobcats. Phil said that Kobe, Fisher, and Powell talked the most, the other guys all chimed in, but Pau said he had no complaints. You don't sit there and say nothing and then ***** the next day conveniently in the media when the guy who Phil has praised all year for being tough and a leader (Kobe) while also calling him soft and saying that he has not played well this year. If you have something to say you tell all the guys to their faces like everyone else and not go to the media after going to the media earlier this year and saying this team and Phil should not air their laundry in the media. My main beef right now is that he doesn't take blame whatsoever (Mem-Kobe can focus on winning) (Boston- Shannon should have sealed his man and caught the pass) and that he doesn't practice what he preaches as he is the only player who passes blame in the media this year whenever they lose. Would that or would that not piss you off too?

Summary of what I'm saying if you don't want to read the whole thing


It's unfortunate that, no matter how much we share the ball, it doesn't change the fact that we've got one too many post players and not enough good shooters. It's just a natural personnel flaw that greatly hampers our ability to execute.


I disagree. Last night was another great example. Kobe had a great individual game. But with talent the Lakers have, they shouldn't have given the Raps a chance to win in the first place. It's almost as if we're seeing two different identities to the Lakers. One is Kobe taking the majority of the shots, the other is when they are executing as a team. I've seen too much of the first lately. Luckily, yesterdays game was a step in the right direction. All the guys played fairly well, and Kobe took over when he needed.

I'm not 'ducking' the argument that Pau isn't effective as a PF in the triangle. I just think it's an irrelevant point you make. It has nothing to do with the position Gasol plays, it's how he plays well with other players. It's the iffy chemistry he has with Bynum that's to blame. Difference is that Gasol is a willing passer and Bynum has sticky fingers. Odom on the other hand is a great glue guy. It has nothing to do with his inability to run the triangle...especially his effectiveness in the high post. I really don't think we disagree on the fact that Gasol is a more effective player in the triangle than Bynum.

As for Kobe, there is a difference when he is facilitating within the offense and when he is forcing the action. He is alot better when he lets the game come to him. Not when he dribbles the ball up and takes difficult shots early in the shot clock when his teammates are trying to get open or sealing their man. I'd be demotivated too to hustle and be aggressive it this happened several times in a row.

Stay_Swim
03-10-2010, 08:21 AM
^ Hey gamewinner player. Again.

MR.TRIPDUB
03-10-2010, 09:50 AM
shaq and kobe all over again.

“When you feed the big dog, it does whatever you tell him to do.”-shaq

trusting his teammates no matter what could go a long way specially now that the playoffs is nearing coz he's stuck with these guys. it not like these guys are scrubs they did win the championship together last year.

some posters seem to say that kobe giving up on his teammates is ok.

JayW_1023
03-10-2010, 11:49 AM
I think Kobe has played well for the majority of the season...just in a few recent games he has been very erratic. Mainly during that three game losing streak. I am confident they'll work things out eventually. But right now the offense just doesn't flow very well.

kblo247
03-10-2010, 02:34 PM
I disagree. Last night was another great example. Kobe had a great individual game. But with talent the Lakers have, they shouldn't have given the Raps a chance to win in the first place. It's almost as if we're seeing two different identities to the Lakers. One is Kobe taking the majority of the shots, the other is when they are executing as a team. I've seen too much of the first lately. Luckily, yesterdays game was a step in the right direction. All the guys played fairly well, and Kobe took over when he needed.

I'm not 'ducking' the argument that Pau isn't effective as a PF in the triangle. I just think it's an irrelevant point you make. It has nothing to do with the position Gasol plays, it's how he plays well with other players. It's the iffy chemistry he has with Bynum that's to blame. Difference is that Gasol is a willing passer and Bynum has sticky fingers. Odom on the other hand is a great glue guy. It has nothing to do with his inability to run the triangle...especially his effectiveness in the high post. I really don't think we disagree on the fact that Gasol is a more effective player in the triangle than Bynum.

As for Kobe, there is a difference when he is facilitating within the offense and when he is forcing the action. He is alot better when he lets the game come to him. Not when he dribbles the ball up and takes difficult shots early in the shot clock when his teammates are trying to get open or sealing their man. I'd be demotivated too to hustle and be aggressive it this happened several times in a row.

I have no problem with your argument but you can't honestly have watched that game and said LA was better running the ball through Pau last night.

He damn near cost LA the game with that tech to start the 4th and his defense in the last 2 minutes. I get Phil wanting to appease him by putting him in the last 2 minutes so he could say he closed out the game but he gave up every play to Toronto to down the stretch as they attacked him. He gave up the Bosh 3, the Calderon layup, the Bargani shot, a board that could have bit them in the ***, and threw the ball like a hot potato at one point back to Kobe all while shooting 36%.

Pau simply wasn't and hasn't been composed the majority of this year down the stretch of close games. I think it is a mental thing but he can't rightfully justify getting touches in the 4th which is interesting since FSN showed a clip which showed his least amount of touches and shots this year is in the 4th quarter. They simply give Pau the Shaq treatment now with a tight game and rather not depend on him winning it after his performances in Miami, Cleveland, Denver, Boston, Dallas and Sacramento when they tried to let him take over.

I'd much rather see the ball in Odom, Fisher, Artest, Kobe or even Drew's hands than his late because he seems to be inside of his own head now.

I said these 2 things last night/this morning and it basically sums up my and a lot of LA fans beef with him right now:



We all know Pau isn't going anywhere, he's just physically and mentally tired this season and he'll eventually get back to his old self with some rest.

For now though, I'm gonna stay on that *** like I'd do a dancer @ the strip club !


Every Laker fan wants to hear Pau for once say he needs to step up, he needs to play better, or it is his fault for once.

He does that and he honestly would be cut more slack than him going to the media and talking **** and then not playing better.

When Shaq talked **** he could back it up and for all his faults of being lazy and a bad free throw shooter he stepped up in crunch time on both ends when needed.

No one says Pau isn't a damn good #2. They are complaining that he isn't being a good leader or backing up his words. If he could walk the walk and maybe go out there and drop 30 or 40 for once as the number 2 guy on a night Kobe doesn't play well like Kobe did as the number 2 and shoot like a big is supposed to @ over 50% no one could possibly *****.

He is simply hurting his own case is all, and I'd respect him more if he shut up and let his play speak for himself or simply said I ****ed up for once.

Is it that hard to comprehend?

kobelaughsatall
03-10-2010, 02:59 PM
:clap: And thats what separates him from kobe

no its rings that separate him and kobe:p

AI4MVP
03-10-2010, 03:20 PM
well watever it is, somethings wrong with the lakers right now. three loses in a row followed by a "win" against the raptors. the lakers were supposed to come out and dominate an inferior raptors team, especially cuz they were supposed to be hungry after losing three straight