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View Full Version : Does Westbrook have a higher ceiling than Rose?



Bishnoff
03-04-2010, 06:22 PM
I know that Bulls fans are going to hate me for saying this, but I honestly believe that Russell Westbrook could end up being the best PG in the 2008 draft, even better than Rose.

Statistically in their 2nd seasons, Westbrook averages more APG (7.9 compared to Rose's 5.7), RPG (5.1 compared to Rose's 3.7), and SPG (1.3 compared to Rose's 0.8). Rose does average more PPG (20.4 compared to Westbrook’s 16.6) however as well as shoot a better FG% (0.483 compared to Westbrook’s 0.416).

What do people generally think? Are Westbrook’s stats elevated because of who he plays with (Durant)? Would Rose average more assists than Westbrook if he was the 2nd option or had a better supporting cast? No homer posts please.

Cool007
03-04-2010, 06:26 PM
It depends what do you think Westbrook's ceiling is???

I think we need to give them couple of offseasons to work on their game and work on their weaknesses and see who gets better every year.

They both are buddies and work out together in the summer.

I am hoping Bulls sign 1 of Bosh/Boozer/Amare this summer and sign a couple of shooters like Allen/Morrow or something and see Rose's assists rise. Not to mention better coach. Vinny's offensive system STINKS. Not a PG (assists) friendly.

ChiSox219
03-04-2010, 06:27 PM
I like Westbrook's game and I think at this point he's comparable to Rose and there's an argument for him being better. It's difficult to say who has a higher ceiling, I think Rose has played very well without an extremely efficient scorer like Westbrook has.To me, Rose is more athletically gifted, he's a bit quicker, stronger, and has better leaping ability so I'll guess his ceiling is higher.

coloradobuff
03-04-2010, 06:29 PM
i think rose has more potential

DCB/LAL
03-04-2010, 06:32 PM
Simply yes I believe Westbrook will be the better player. I wont have this argument again.

thescore53
03-04-2010, 06:33 PM
their both strong guards but you know rose will allways be overated by the media

Bishnoff
03-04-2010, 06:34 PM
It depends what do you think Westbrook's ceiling is???

I think we need to give them couple of offseasons to work on their game and work on their weaknesses and see who gets better every year.

They both are buddies and work out together in the summer.

I didn't know this. Interesting point.


I am hoping Bulls sign 1 of Bosh/Boozer/Amare this summer and sign a couple of shooters like Allen/Morrow or something and see Rose's assists rise. Not to mention better coach. Vinny's offensive system STINKS. Not a PG (assists) friendly.

Strange. You'd think he would have learnt a thing or two from D'Antoni when he was in Phoenix.

ChiSox219
03-04-2010, 06:34 PM
I wish we could be watching a Westbrook-Wade back court tonight.

Hawkeye15
03-04-2010, 06:35 PM
Their seasons are remarkably similar. They are both very good athletes, and big and strong. It would be a coin flip at the moment to tell who will be better. I guess whichever one learns how to hit an outside shot.

Bishnoff
03-04-2010, 06:37 PM
Simply yes I believe Westbrook will be the better player. I wont have this argument again.

Sorry, didn't know it'd been debated recently.

TheKing23
03-04-2010, 06:37 PM
I think they both have extremely high ceilings... Westbrook is more raw offensively relying on his speed and strength to score but his assists per game show he has a great offensive awareness and passing mentality early in his career.

I think Rose will develop a better offensive game than Westbrook, but Westbrook could turn out to be the better PURE point.

The way I see it:

Better offensively - Rose
Better PG - Westbrook
Overall better player - Rose

DCB/LAL
03-04-2010, 06:38 PM
Sorry, didn't know it'd been debated recently.

No it wasn't recently it was a while back.

Cool007
03-04-2010, 06:41 PM
I didn't know this. Interesting point.



Strange. You'd think he would have learnt a thing or two from D'Antoni when he was in Phoenix.

Yes, both are buddies. This is why when Rose couldn't go to All-star Skills challenge, he helped Westbrook get in instead.

There was their workout video and pix back in the summer - working out together laughing and enjoying.

Regarding Vinny, that's what we thought. We thought he would be fastbreak/uptempo type of coach but boy we were surprised.

He has nothing but iso system - not many cuts, not many wrinkles, not much movement - plus his system is to get open 18-23 foot shots - where we don't have good shooters to being with. :facepalm:

bbcmillionaire
03-04-2010, 06:43 PM
i love westbrooks game

nitric
03-04-2010, 06:44 PM
Their seasons are remarkably similar. They are both very good athletes, and big and strong. It would be a coin flip at the moment to tell who will be better. I guess whichever one learns how to hit an outside shot.

Outside shot as in 18-20 foot jumpers or 3 point shots? Rose has one of the better midrange games this season fyi

Stunner
03-04-2010, 06:46 PM
Its close but not being a homer i would still give the edge to Rose. We really wont knw until Rose gets help next year.

sep11ie
03-04-2010, 06:52 PM
Attack by Bulls fans in 3 2 1...

wallerstud06
03-04-2010, 06:54 PM
THESCORE53??? If you really think that Rose is overrated...think again lol....if anybody is overrated IT is CHRIS BOSH.. Westbrook gets LESS attention and MORE freedom thhan Rose because of DURANT

Hawkeye15
03-04-2010, 06:54 PM
Outside shot as in 18-20 foot jumpers or 3 point shots? Rose has one of the better midrange games this season fyi

long distance. And I do think Rose will be a better shooter, he has more control on his release.
Also, looking at their numbers, Westbrook is killing Rose on assist rates, due to having Durant most likely. Rose, with help, would probably benefit big time

RaptorizedKevin
03-04-2010, 07:10 PM
theyre both good point guards. but west brook is way better in terms of playmaking, rebounding, defense,quickness. his ppg isnt as high as rose only cuss hes playing behind a superstar named Kevin durant. so he is probably the better scorer between himself and rose. Westbrook will be better.

RaptorizedKevin
03-04-2010, 07:11 PM
THESCORE53??? If you really think that Rose is overrated...think again lol....if anybody is overrated IT is CHRIS BOSH.. Westbrook gets LESS attention and MORE freedom thhan Rose because of DURANT

overated? people critize bosh to the max, hes not even rated. derrick rose is overated b y bulls fans.

abe_froman
03-04-2010, 07:11 PM
no,westbrook is good and going to be very good,but rose's ceiling is unbelievably high(highest of that draft class)

Sixerlover
03-04-2010, 07:17 PM
Westbrook and Rose both have unbelievably high ceilings. But im going with Rose simply because he runs his team and can grow as a star, whereas westbrook is behind Durant on the offensive end.

ChiSox219
03-04-2010, 07:18 PM
Westbrook's ceiling=Chase Tower

Rose's ceiling=Willis Tower

Cool007
03-04-2010, 07:19 PM
theyre both good point guards. but west brook is way better..

ummm. NO.

They are both close to each other.

If anything Westbrook should be better with Durant next to him. His efficiency is really bad - especially when he has a top 5 player next to him.

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 07:20 PM
theyre both good point guards. but west brook is way better. in terms of playmaking, rebounding, defense, quickness. his ppg isnt as high as rose only cuss hes playing behind a superstar named Kevin durant. so he is probably the better scorer between himself and rose. Westbrook will be better.

And yet Westbrook his MUCH less efficient than Rose while getting less attention.
And quickness? Really? Did you time them or something? :rolleyes:

RaptorizedKevin
03-04-2010, 07:22 PM
And yet Westbrook his MUCH less efficient than Rose while getting less attention.
And quickness? Really? Did you time them or something? :rolleyes:

chill out bulls fan. IM baseing this on proven statistics and draft reports for both players. Did yu get raged ,because i said westbrook has more potentiall? yu shouldnt be biased, and be mad because i didnt choose rose.

RaptorizedKevin
03-04-2010, 07:23 PM
ummm. NO.

They are both close to each other.

If anything Westbrook should be better with Durant next to him. His efficiency is really bad - especially when he has a top 5 player next to him.

yu didnt qoute the whole sentence bro. why yu doing that? i said westbrook is way beetter in terms of PLAYMAKING, AND REBOUNDINg. if ur gonna qoute, qoute properly.

sep11ie
03-04-2010, 07:25 PM
I knew it!

nitric
03-04-2010, 07:28 PM
russ needs to up his fg%. pretty dismal for a pg

TheKing23
03-04-2010, 07:30 PM
Westbrook's ceiling=Chase Tower

Rose's ceiling=Willis Tower

I'd give Westbrook the John Hancock center.

Cool007
03-04-2010, 07:30 PM
yu didnt qoute the whole sentence bro. why yu doing that? i said westbrook is way beetter in terms of PLAYMAKING, AND REBOUNDINg. if ur gonna qoute, qoute properly.

Do you not understand or something.

Westbrook is NOT WAY Better than Rose at anything. Case closed.

Then you went on to say that if Durant wasn't there then he would be scoring more than Rose? WTF is that???

First of all, Westbrook is really bad efficiency wise meaning if he scores more that means he becomes a chucker and nothing else. Also, if Durant is not there, then don't you think his assists would decrease???

Your post was so much flawed and I didn't want to embarrass you so I only picked 1 thing from your post.

Southsideheat
03-04-2010, 07:31 PM
Rose will reach a Scottie Pippen type ceiling.

Westbrook will reach a Gary Payton type ceiling.

nitric
03-04-2010, 07:33 PM
I wish Rose had Durant as a teammate. Wow the lanes would be wide open :lol:

abe_froman
03-04-2010, 07:34 PM
chill out bulls fan. IM baseing this on proven statistics and draft reports for both players. Did yu get raged ,because i said westbrook has more potentiall? yu shouldnt be biased, and be mad because i didnt choose rose.

but your not.ever draft report had rose's ceiling higher with the only one that was in contention with beasley

also,i dont know what you deem to be proven stat every statistic that measures efficiency favors rose(look it up if you done believe me)

...now i get you hate rose or hate bulls blah blah whatever but at least have respect for facts

RaptorizedKevin
03-04-2010, 07:38 PM
Do you not understand or something.

Westbrook is NOT WAY Better than Rose at anything. Case closed.

Then you went on to say that if Durant wasn't there then he would be scoring more than Rose? WTF is that???

First of all, Westbrook is really bad efficiency wise meaning if he scores more that means he becomes a chucker and nothing else. Also, if Durant is not there, then don't you think his assists would decrease???

Your post was so much flawed and I didn't want to embarrass you so I only picked 1 thing from your post.

west brook is a better defender and playmaker though. calm down, everyone has their opinion

Draco
03-04-2010, 07:39 PM
chill out bulls fan. IM baseing this on proven statistics and draft reports for both players. Did yu get raged ,because i said westbrook has more potentiall? yu shouldnt be biased, and be mad because i didnt choose rose.

I think the post you're replying to suggested you're misinterpreting those statistics. Westbrook's offensive inefficiency doesn't suggest that Durant is holding him back.. it suggests that Durant has to make up for Westbrook's shortcoming.

arkanian215
03-04-2010, 07:39 PM
Outside shot as in 18-20 foot jumpers or 3 point shots? Rose has one of the better midrange games this season fyi

http://i49.tinypic.com/2qwon09.jpg

Stunner
03-04-2010, 07:43 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/2qwon09.jpg

lol

mikantsass
03-04-2010, 07:47 PM
Westbrook is an all around player where Rose is just a scorer

Sadds The Gr8
03-04-2010, 07:50 PM
Westbrook is an all around player where Rose is just a scorer

This.

Red222
03-04-2010, 07:50 PM
Westbrook is an all around player where Rose is just a scorer

I disagree

Cool007
03-04-2010, 07:56 PM
Westbrook is an all around player where Rose is just a scorer

Since when 20/4/6 is not an all-around player???

RaptorizedKevin
03-04-2010, 08:04 PM
Since when 20/4/6 is not an all-around player???

i agree. that is all rounded. not gonna be biased

Sadds The Gr8
03-04-2010, 08:12 PM
I disagree


Since when 20/4/6 is not an all-around player???


i agree. that is all rounded. not gonna be biased

lol U guys do know that 6 assists isn't that impressive for a PG right?

Chacarron
03-04-2010, 08:12 PM
Goran Dragic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jim51990
03-04-2010, 08:18 PM
yes if he was in chicago and rose in okc then westbrook would be the big star

nitric
03-04-2010, 08:34 PM
lol U guys do know that 6 assists isn't that impressive for a PG right?

how many times must this be discussed? Bulls have no inside presence and have the worst 3 point shooting team in the league. westbrook has a top 3 player in the league..

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 08:36 PM
chill out bulls fan. IM baseing this on proven statistics and draft reports for both players. Did yu get raged ,because i said westbrook has more potentiall? yu shouldnt be biased, and be mad because i didnt choose rose.

What proven statistics and draft reports? Enlighten me.
Here's a proven statistic, Westbrook's ts%, fg% and efg% sucks while playing alongside a top 5 scorer in this league.
However, based on your previous posts, I really doubt you use statistics or reports. It could be your horrendous grammar or possibly the poor quality of your posts that leads me to believe this.

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 08:39 PM
lol U guys do know that 6 assists isn't that impressive for a PG right?

No, not really. I'd consider Parker and Billups impressive pgs.
Like I said, I never understood the emphasis on assists. Especially, given the fact that we don't run an assist friendly system, nor have good players who make shots efficiently around Rose.
With that said, his court vision is nothing special. I think it's good, but never will be in the same level as Deron, Paul, Nash etc. However, it's really not a big deal to me cause I believe he can be as good of a scorer or better than those players. As a player overall, I believe he can be as good, and that's all that matters.

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 08:39 PM
yes if he was in chicago and rose in okc then westbrook would be the big star

Nope, too inefficient and isn't able to carry the offensive load of a team. If he's shooting terribly as a second/third option behind a top 5 scorer, there's no way he'd be good as a number one option.

JordansBulls
03-04-2010, 08:49 PM
I know that Bulls fans are going to hate me for saying this, but I honestly believe that Russell Westbrook could end up being the best PG in the 2008 draft, even better than Rose.

Statistically in their 2nd seasons, Westbrook averages more APG (7.9 compared to Rose's 5.7), RPG (5.1 compared to Rose's 3.7), and SPG (1.3 compared to Rose's 0.8). Rose does average more PPG (20.4 compared to Westbrook’s 16.6) however as well as shoot a better FG% (0.483 compared to Westbrook’s 0.416).

What do people generally think? Are Westbrook’s stats elevated because of who he plays with (Durant)? Would Rose average more assists than Westbrook if he was the 2nd option or had a better supporting cast? No homer posts please.

If he was the best player on his team then he may have higher potential but with Durant on the team, I would venture to say no.

JordansBulls
03-04-2010, 08:51 PM
yes if he was in chicago and rose in okc then westbrook would be the big star

Westbrook shoots like 41-42% while Rose shoots 48%.

HoopsDrive
03-04-2010, 08:55 PM
I'll give the edge to Rose for now, seeing what he's doing with a rather mediocre cast while Wesbrook has a top 5 player in the league and a reasonable cast, better than the Bulls current one.

Both need to work on shooting more efficiently but that will come along in time.

SteveNash
03-04-2010, 08:56 PM
Rose has a higher ceiling though it's pretty close.

Wall has a higher one than both.

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 09:04 PM
I'll give the edge to Rose for now, seeing what he's doing with a rather mediocre cast while Wesbrook has a top 5 player in the league and a reasonable cast, better than the Bulls current one.

Both need to work on shooting more efficiently but that will come along in time.

More than anything Rose has to learn how to draw fouls at a higher rate and develop a good enough 3 ball where he is shooting at least 35% and making 1 3pt a game. If he can do that, then I'd consider him an elite or near elite scorer.

Draco
03-04-2010, 09:04 PM
I'll give the edge to Rose for now, seeing what he's doing with a rather mediocre cast while Wesbrook has a top 5 player in the league and a reasonable cast, better than the Bulls current one.

Both need to work on shooting more efficiently but that will come along in time.

Another Thunder/Bulls comparison that doesn't make sense to me. Take away Rose, Durant and Westbrook and you think the remaining Thunder team are a "reasonable cast" while the remaining Bulls team are a "mediocre cast"? How so?

Hawkeye15
03-04-2010, 09:15 PM
lol U guys do know that 6 assists isn't that impressive for a PG right?

you do know that if Rose had Durant to get him 3-5 a night, he would average more than 6, right?

Hawkeye15
03-04-2010, 09:17 PM
No, not really. I'd consider Parker and Billups impressive pgs.
Like I said, I never understood the emphasis on assists. Especially, given the fact that we don't run an assist friendly system, nor have good players who make shots efficiently around Rose.
With that said, his court vision is nothing special. I think it's good, but never will be in the same level as Deron, Paul, Nash etc. However, it's really not a big deal to me cause I believe he can be as good of a scorer or better than those players. As a player overall, I believe he can be as good, and that's all that matters.

he reminds me of what Marbury could have been. Rose that is. Westbrook reminds me of Rondo.

magichatnumber9
03-04-2010, 09:29 PM
Westbrook is more explosive, better defender, and has that killer instinct. Oh and he won't back down to anyone. Rose is good but less aggressive. I'll take Westbrook

Baller1
03-04-2010, 09:32 PM
Westbrook's ceiling is a less efficient, less smart, more athletic, stronger Jason Kidd.

Rose's ceiling is Dwayne Wade.

ldc62
03-04-2010, 09:33 PM
Rose is better.

clehmun
03-04-2010, 09:43 PM
don't know if anyone mentioned this, but westbrook is actually a very good defender while rose is a bad defender at this point of his career.

Hawkeye15
03-04-2010, 09:47 PM
don't know if anyone mentioned this, but westbrook is actually a very good defender while rose is a bad defender at this point of his career.

he is a slightly better defender, only because he can guard both guard positions. But their defensive efficiency ratings show Rose was better as a rookie, Westbrook now. Rose's opponents have a 15 PER, Westbrooks 15.3
So its about even really. Westbrook has gorilla arms, and deflects passes more often, but Rose is a better on the ball defender.
Really, its apples and oranges here. Both look to be stellar PG's, and both are early in their careers. I predict Rose will be better, he just seems to have star poise. But Westbrook is awesome, and will be a very good lead guard regardless of my opinion

D Roses Bulls
03-04-2010, 09:49 PM
their both strong guards but you know rose will allways be overated by the media

ive seen some posts by you and you by far one of the biggest haters on this site. overrated by the media? please..... you obviously have never seen rose play and if you have and think he is overrated then you need to stop watching basketball. you always hate on the bulls. is it because bosh will most likely be a bull next year? or are you just mad in general bosh doesnt wanna stay in canada?

anyways.... if rose had a shooter like durrant on his team, hell if rose had a shooter on his team, he would average more assists. rose reads the floor very well for a 21 YEAR OLD who spent only one year in college. he was picked to the all star game, not by the fans or the media but by the coaches who coach against him every night. he is a scorer right now because he has to be a scorer, who else on that team can really score? i seriously cant believe there is another thread comparing someone else to rose who isnt obviously isnt better then rose and wont be better then rose.

clehmun
03-04-2010, 09:54 PM
he is a slightly better defender, only because he can guard both guard positions. But their defensive efficiency ratings show Rose was better as a rookie, Westbrook now. Rose's opponents have a 15 PER, Westbrooks 15.3
So its about even really. Westbrook has gorilla arms, and deflects passes more often, but Rose is a better on the ball defender.
Really, its apples and oranges here. Both look to be stellar PG's, and both are early in their careers. I predict Rose will be better, he just seems to have star poise. But Westbrook is awesome, and will be a very good lead guard regardless of my opinion

stats again? ;)
well then my counter would be, westbrook plays in the west where he plays against the likes of billups, nash, cp3, deron, TP, kidd day in day out, while rose goes against devin harris, rondo, mo will, nelson......................... most of the time.

if westbrook has better defensive stats, then it actually means more than the stats suggests, IMO.

Baller1
03-04-2010, 09:56 PM
Westbrook and Rose are both some of NBA.com's "Kevin Durant" candidates for next year (Breakout Player).



Derrick Rose, Chicago
Chicago rookie Taj Gibson is biased toward another University of Memphis product. But then, he's a daily eyewitness to what Rose can do. "He's just so unselfish," Gibson said. "That's rare in a player that great. I get to work out with him every day and I see so much potential."

Rose has banged up his right knee twice this week, and he began the season hobbled by an ankle injury. In between, though, he earned an All-Star spot, has averaged 20.4 points, 3.7 rebounds and 5.7 assists and led the Bulls to a 13-6 mark from Jan. 22 through February.

"He's so strong and he's athletic and he can score," Milwaukee guard Brandon Jennings said. "He can get to the rim and he can get guys involved. I feel like what he did his rookie year was awesome. He didn't lead rookies in scoring or nothing like that. He just led his team to the playoffs. To me, I think he's a superstar in the league just because of what he did last year and also he has a chance this year to make the playoffs again."


Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City
Durant made a statement and gave us all a sign of things to come last year at All-Star weekend, when he dominated the Rookie Challenge game. "You could just tell that Durant was like, 'I deserve to be in the Sunday game,' " Minnesota's Kevin Love said. Going by that criterion, Durant's teammate on the Thunder is a possible blow-up selection.

Westbrook scored 40 points to help the rookies beat the sophomores, 140-128, on All-Star Friday. And in the what-have-you-done-for-us-lately department, he had 30 points and 13 assists -- keeping pace with Durant's 39 points and 10 boards -- in OKC's victory this week over Sacramento. It's the first time in NBA history two teammates age 21 or younger had 30-10 games. He had double-doubles in six of seven games before the Thunder lost at Denver Wednesday, is considered to be one of the top pure athletes (if not pure point guards) in the league and is averaging 16.6 points, 5.1 rebounds and 7.9 assists.

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/steve_aschburner/03/04/durant/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

KnicksorBust
03-04-2010, 09:58 PM
he is a slightly better defender, only because he can guard both guard positions. But their defensive efficiency ratings show Rose was better as a rookie, Westbrook now. Rose's opponents have a 15 PER, Westbrooks 15.3
So its about even really. Westbrook has gorilla arms, and deflects passes more often, but Rose is a better on the ball defender.
Really, its apples and oranges here. Both look to be stellar PG's, and both are early in their careers. I predict Rose will be better, he just seems to have star poise. But Westbrook is awesome, and will be a very good lead guard regardless of my opinion

Good post. In my opinion, Rose has a higher ceiling. He has another jump left to make in his career and it involves him getting to the FT line more. Also, am I the only one who thinks the Dwyane Wade comparison is a little off? I see Wade as SG who handles the ball a lot and I see Rose as a PG. Defensively the comparison is even worse.

Baller1
03-04-2010, 10:01 PM
Good post. In my opinion, Rose has a higher ceiling. He has another jump left to make in his career and it involves him getting to the FT line more. Also, am I the only one who thinks the Dwyane Wade comparison is a little off? I see Wade as SG who handles the ball a lot and I see Rose as a PG. Defensively the comparison is even worse.

Rose is a SG playing PG. That's why I feel the Wade comparison is actually pretty accurate.

Mr.WhiteSox
03-04-2010, 10:05 PM
haha good joke. westbrook is peaking now. rose hasen't even started

Baller1
03-04-2010, 10:06 PM
haha good joke. westbrook is peaking now. rose hasen't even started

Your posts are so insightful.

clehmun
03-04-2010, 10:06 PM
Good post. In my opinion, Rose has a higher ceiling. He has another jump left to make in his career and it involves him getting to the FT line more. Also, am I the only one who thinks the Dwyane Wade comparison is a little off? I see Wade as SG who handles the ball a lot and I see Rose as a PG. Defensively the comparison is even worse.

i agree, i think their games are totally different. just because they're both around the same size, athletic, flashy dunks, not great shooters, doesn't mean they're the same player. i don't see rose ever averaging 30 points, not because he can't, but because thats not his mentality.

and what's with the westbrook/kidd comparison? just because westbrook can rebound and get assists?

Mr.WhiteSox
03-04-2010, 10:12 PM
THESCORE53??? If you really think that Rose is overrated...think again lol....if anybody is overrated IT is CHRIS BOSH.. Westbrook gets LESS attention and MORE freedom thhan Rose because of DURANT

i disagree with bosh being overrated. but i do agree that it's soo much easier for westbrook with durant on the floor. just wait till next year.. rose will show all u haters up.

ROSE>WESTBROOK.....and......RONDO

Mr.WhiteSox
03-04-2010, 10:13 PM
Your posts are so insightful.

what u got to say to it.

D1JM
03-04-2010, 10:20 PM
why are we making another thread about westbrook and rose?

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 10:29 PM
Westbrook's ceiling is a less efficient, less smart, more athletic, stronger Jason Kidd.

Rose's ceiling is Dwayne Wade.

I thinks that's fairly accurate. I'm not sure if "stronger or more athletic" than Kidd even that Kidd was UNBELIEVABLY athletic in his prime. I'd say roughly even.

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 10:31 PM
haha good joke. westbrook is peaking now. rose hasen't even started

Huh? Westbrook just had his best month and yet he's peaking...?

he is a slightly better defender, only because he can guard both guard positions. But their defensive efficiency ratings show Rose was better as a rookie, Westbrook now. Rose's opponents have a 15 PER, Westbrooks 15.3
So its about even really. Westbrook has gorilla arms, and deflects passes more often, but Rose is a better on the ball defender.
Really, its apples and oranges here. Both look to be stellar PG's, and both are early in their careers. I predict Rose will be better, he just seems to have star poise. But Westbrook is awesome, and will be a very good lead guard regardless of my opinion

eh... I think Westbrook is a lot better defender. Granted Rose has improved a bit, but he's still pretty bad at that end imo, though has the potential and work ethic to become good. Westbrook, on the other hand, is already pretty damn good and probably top 5 at that end.

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 10:32 PM
he reminds me of what Marbury could have been. Rose that is. Westbrook reminds me of Rondo.

Yup. Very good comparison.

Melo15
03-04-2010, 11:03 PM
I think that Rose is going to be very very good but I think that Westbrook a better all around player.

Hawkeye15
03-04-2010, 11:29 PM
Huh? Westbrook just had his best month and yet he's peaking...?


eh... I think Westbrook is a lot better defender. Granted Rose has improved a bit, but he's still pretty bad at that end imo, though has the potential and work ethic to become good. Westbrook, on the other hand, is already pretty damn good and probably top 5 at that end.

But Westbrook isn't that much better of a defender. Rose was better as a rookie, Westbrook is better now. Westbrook gets a higher defensive rating due to his rebounding gain. Westbrook then gets a nod with assist ratings due to a point guard friendly offense, with the best pure scorer as his small forward.
Rose has become a good midrange shooter, Westbrook is terrible, and both are terrible behind the line. Rose is a better athlete in close quarters, which playoffs are played in, and I think Rose has potential to be better, but only because Westbrook just seems to live of freakish athletic ablity, which isn't a bad thing.
I simply think Rose will be the better player. But I won't be surprised if Westbrook is, if that makes sense

Swashcuff
03-04-2010, 11:44 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that Westbrook is going to be the better all round player but I think Derek Rose just has that it factor to take him to superstar status. If we go by just filling the stats sheet I'd have to say Westbrook but who in the long term is going to be the better player gotta go Rose.

kozelkid
03-04-2010, 11:52 PM
But Westbrook isn't that much better of a defender. Rose was better as a rookie, Westbrook is better now. Westbrook gets a higher defensive rating due to his rebounding gain. Westbrook then gets a nod with assist ratings due to a point guard friendly offense, with the best pure scorer as his small forward.
Rose has become a good midrange shooter, Westbrook is terrible, and both are terrible behind the line. Rose is a better athlete in close quarters, which playoffs are played in, and I think Rose has potential to be better, but only because Westbrook just seems to live of freakish athletic ablity, which isn't a bad thing.
I simply think Rose will be the better player. But I won't be surprised if Westbrook is, if that makes sense

Well I'm talking specifically about defense. I strongly agree with everything else you said. Rose as a rookie was as bad of a defender as anyone though.

chitownbears89
03-05-2010, 12:02 AM
overated? people critize bosh to the max, hes not even rated. derrick rose is overated b y bulls fans.

Can you blame us. He is our best player. So yeah he is overrated by bulls fans. He is the closest thing we got to a superstar. And he is sick and you know it. Your just pissed because we are gonna get bosh.

RaptorizedKevin
03-05-2010, 12:11 AM
Can you blame us. He is our best player. So yeah he is overrated by bulls fans. He is the closest thing we got to a superstar. And he is sick and you know it. Your just pissed because we are gonna get bosh.

Well i guess i really cant, thats ture. he is sick. And no im not pissed, keep dreaming LOL . if theres any team that will get bosh beside the raptors its the heat, so chill dawg. :facepalm:

kozelkid
03-05-2010, 12:48 AM
Well i guess i really cant, thats ture. he is sick. And no im not pissed, keep dreaming LOL . if theres any team that will get bosh beside the raptors its the heat, so chill dawg. :facepalm:

I would have believed it too before they started sinking fast lately. Granted they just beat LA, but after Wade that team is in shambles. Even a great player like Bosh can't fix that and I think he knows it. Whatever, we'll see. ;)

Jason5Kidd5
03-05-2010, 01:29 AM
I know that Bulls fans are going to hate me for saying this, but I honestly believe that Russell Westbrook could end up being the best PG in the 2008 draft, even better than Rose.

Statistically in their 2nd seasons, Westbrook averages more APG (7.9 compared to Rose's 5.7), RPG (5.1 compared to Rose's 3.7), and SPG (1.3 compared to Rose's 0.8). Rose does average more PPG (20.4 compared to Westbrook’s 16.6) however as well as shoot a better FG% (0.483 compared to Westbrook’s 0.416).

What do people generally think? Are Westbrook’s stats elevated because of who he plays with (Durant)? Would Rose average more assists than Westbrook if he was the 2nd option or had a better supporting cast? No homer posts please.

If one argues that the only reason why Westbrook's stats are better than Rose is because he plays with Durant, then couldn't one argue that the only reason why Durant is such an amazing scorer be because of Westbrook?

The truth is a mixture of the two. Durant is a naturally gifted offensive player and he is utilized most efficiently with an AMAZING pass first PG in Westbrook. Westbrook has an excellent all around game. He dishes the ball insanely well, he's one of the best PG rebounders (which I don't know how Kevin Durant helps Westbrook rebound???), has the ability to lock down a defender, and is an explosive scorer.

As it stands, give me Westbrook any day of the week. Rose WOULD NOT put up Westbrook's stats if they were switched.... Rose is a shoot first, shoot second, player and would actually hinder Durant's superstar potential.

kozelkid
03-05-2010, 02:11 AM
If one argues that the only reason why Westbrook's stats are better than Rose is because he plays with Durant, then couldn't one argue that the only reason why Durant is such an amazing scorer be because of Westbrook?

The truth is a mixture of the two. Durant is a naturally gifted offensive player and he is utilized most efficiently with an AMAZING pass first PG in Westbrook. Westbrook has an excellent all around game. He dishes the ball insanely well, he's one of the best PG rebounders (which I don't know how Kevin Durant helps Westbrook rebound???), has the ability to lock down a defender, and is an explosive scorer.

As it stands, give me Westbrook any day of the week. Rose WOULD NOT put up Westbrook's stats if they were switched.... Rose is a shoot first, shoot second, player and would actually hinder Durant's superstar potential.

The lack of knowledge behind this post is absolutely laughable.
(A) Durant has been scoring like crazy LONG before Westbrook. Good try though. As for how Durant helps Westbrook rebound? No one ever said that. What people say is that given that OKC doesn't have the best rebounding bigs, gives more opportunity for Westbrook to snatch rebounds. Regardless he's still a good rebounder though. But his rpg is a bit inflated. With that said, Westbrook has made strides in his playmaking this season.
(B) "rose is a shoot first, shoot second". This is absolutely hilarious. Like you literally know zero about Derrick Rose. If anything, he was frowned upon for giving it up TOO much. He only started playing like an allstar this season when he stopped deferring to his teammates and realized he needs to carry the team.
Good try though. Maybe you should stick with the mavs. ;)

Raph12
03-05-2010, 02:43 AM
Rose has a lot of upside, he has a higher ceiling, but Westbrook is still playing great ball atm.

Sixerlover
03-05-2010, 02:49 AM
Im not sure who posted it, but Rose is FAR from a shoot first shoot second kind of player. From the games that I've seen from him he is very passive some games.

JiffyMix88
03-05-2010, 03:16 AM
rose sucks azz probably the worst pg in the 2008 draft......This is what i would get if i didnt know anything about him or ever seen him play and just went by the posters on psd