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JordansBulls
03-03-2010, 09:25 AM
Thought a thread should be created for this since we are winding down the season.

stawka
03-03-2010, 10:22 AM
Dwight > All

end of thread lol

MacFitz92
03-03-2010, 10:24 AM
It'll be Dwight. Not really any discussion.

bigsams50
03-03-2010, 11:03 AM
Dwight, but Crash will get some votes

LeBroom
03-03-2010, 11:11 AM
Jared Jeffries. XD

ManRam
03-03-2010, 11:59 AM
It's gotta be Dwight.

I mean, the Magic are third in defensive efficiency, starting three below average defenders, and with a bench that basically consists of shooters, and more defensively challenged players. The reason the are #3 in the league in defense is simple: Dwight Howard. We also lead the league in defensive rebound rate, with really only one big time rebounder ever really playing.


I think Ron-Ron, Crash, Smith and Varejao round out the top 5.

MagicDojo
03-03-2010, 12:41 PM
It's gotta be Dwight.

I mean, the Magic are third in defensive efficiency, starting three below average defenders, and with a bench that basically consists of shooters, and more defensively challenged players. The reason the are #3 in the league in defense is simple: Dwight Howard. We also lead the league in defensive rebound rate, with really only one big time rebounder ever really playing.


I think Ron-Ron, Crash, Smith and Varejao round out the top 5.

No need for me to type. See above^^^:) Add Camby.

Wilson
03-03-2010, 01:44 PM
Ron Artest baby :cool:

Lakersfan2483
03-03-2010, 03:24 PM
The DPOY is going to come down to Dwight and Ron Artest. Ron deserves some serious love for the award. The Lakers are the no. 1 ranked defense due in large part to Ron's defense prowess. Check out the numbers of the last 7 opponents that have faced Ron:

A.Iguodala 5-15 ( 13 pts)

S.Marion 5-11 (10 pts)

R.Gay 7-17 (17 pts)

P.Pierce 4-9 (11 pts)

C.Maggete 4-13 (17 pts)

C.Anthony 7-19 (21 pts)

D.Granger 2-9 (9 pts)

Lakersfan2483
03-03-2010, 03:30 PM
Here is a much larger sample size of what Ron has done this year against good talent:

Keep in mind that the bottom numbers are the various players' statistical avgs. for the year.


10/27/09 OPENING NIGHT
Al Thornton
8 points (4/11 [36%], 0/0 from 3), 1 TOV
PTS 11.1 -- FG% .484 -- 3P% .389 -- TOV 1.3


10/30/09
Dirk Nowitzki
21 points (5/14 [35%], 1/4 from 3 [25%]), 1 TOV
PTS 25.0 -- FG% .477 -- 3P% .360 -- TOV 1.83
* Artest guarded him


11/1/09
Marvin Williams
6 points (1/6 [16%], 0/2 from 3, 1 TOV
PTS 10.0 -- FG% 43 -- 3P% .330 -- TOV 0.8


11/3/09
Kevin Durant
28 points (10/24 [41%], 0/8 from 3), 7 TOV
PTS 29.7 -- FG% .478 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 3.63


11/4/09
Trevor Ariza
15 points (5/21 [23%], 2/7 from 3 [28%]), 3 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


11/15/09
Trevor Ariza
9 points (2/12 [16%], 1/7 from 3 [14%]), 6 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


11/17/09
Charlie Villanueva
2 points (1/6 [16%]. 0/2 from 3), 0 TOV, 23 minutes
PTS -- 12.4 -- FG% .435 -- 3P% .330 -- TOV 1.18 -- MPG 25
* Artest guarded him


11/19/09
Luol Deng
6 points (3/11 [27%], 0/2 from 3), 2 TOV
PTS -- 18.2 -- FG% .465 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 1.98


11/22/09
Kevin Durant
19 points (8/20 [40%], 2/5 from 3 [40%]), 3 TOV
PTS 29.7 -- FG% .478 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 3.63


11/24/09
Wilson Chandler
15 points (5/20 [25%], 1/6 from 3 [16%]), 1 TOV
PTS 15.3 -- FG% .477 -- 3P% .283 -- TOV 1.76


11/29/09
Chris Douglas-Roberts
5 points (2/11 [18%], 1/1 from 3), 1 TOV
PTS 11.0 -- FG% .453 -- 3P% .300 -- TOV 1.60


12/9/09
Ronnie Brewer
9 points (3/8 [37%], 0/0 from 3) 1 TOV
PTS 9.5 -- FG% .495 -- 3P% .495 -- TOV 1.0


12/11/09
Ryan Gomes
4 points (2/6 [33%], 0/1 from 3) 2 TOV
PTS 10.4 -- FG% .446 -- 3P% .367 -- TOV 1.24


12/16/09
Carlos Delfino
0 points (0/2, 0/1 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 10.3 -- FG% .407 -- 3P% .356 -- TOV 1.62


12/25/09
LeBron James
26 points (9/19 [47%], 2/7 [28%]) 7 TOV
PTS 30.0 -- FG% .503 -- 3P% .350 -- TOV 3.48


1/5/10
Trevor Ariza
12 points (5/14 [35%], 1/5 from 3 [20%]) 2 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


1/15/10
Rasual Butler
7 points (2/8 [25%], 0/3 from 3) 0 TOV
PTS 11.5 -- FG% .418 -- 3P% .350 -- TOV 0.76


1/24/10
Hedo Turkoglu
9 points (1/6 [16%], 1/2 from 3 [50%]) 0 TOV
PTS 12.7 -- FG% .415 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 1.83


1/29/10
Andre Iguodala
8 points (3/7 [42%], 0/1 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 17.2 -- FG% .432 -- 3P% .309 -- TOV 2.59


1/31/10
Paul Pierce
15 points (4/11 [36%], 3/7 from 3 [42%]) 4 TOV
PTS 17.9 -- FG% .460 -- 3P% .439 -- TOV 2.57


2/6/10
Martell Webster
2 points (1/7 [14%], 0/4 from 3) 2 TOV
PTS 10.4 -- FG% .404 -- 3P% .372 -- TOV 0.84


2/8/10
Richard Jefferson
9 points (2/9 [22%], 0/1 from 3) 0 TOV
PTS 12.2 -- FG% .448 -- 3P% .348 -- TOV 1.34


2/16/10
Corey Maggette
17 points (4/13 [30%], 0/0 from 3) 6 TOV
PTS 20.2 -- FG% .510 -- 3P% .238 -- TOV 2.52


2/18/10
Paul Pierce
11 points (4/9 [44%], 1/4 from 3 [25%]) 1 TOV
PTS 17.9 -- FG% .460 -- 3P% .439 -- TOV 2.57


2/23/10
Rudy Gay
17 points (7/17 [41%], 0/1 from 3) 1 TOV
PTS 20.2 -- FG% .471 -- 3P% .326 -- TOV 1.89


2/24/10
Shawn Marion
10 points (5/11 [45%], 0/0 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 11.4 -- FG% .498 -- 3P% .083 -- TOV 1.35


2/26/10
Andre Iguodala
13 points (5/15 [33%], 1/6 from 3 [16%]) 2 TOV
PTS 17.2 -- FG% .432 -- 3P% .309 -- TOV 2.59


2/28/10
Carmelo Anthony
21 points (7/19 [36%], 0/2 from 3) 8 TOV
PTS 28.8 -- FG% .457 -- 3P% .344 -- TOV 3.26

1/2/10
Danny Granger
9 points (2/9 [22%], 1/2 from 3 [50%]), 4 TOV
PTS 23.0 -- FG% .418 -- 3P% .354 -- TOV 2.49

Niro
03-03-2010, 03:36 PM
any guy from the warriors...

jk i guess it will come down between howard and artest

DaoudS
03-03-2010, 04:14 PM
Jose Calderon....but seriously. Josh Smith has to rank up there along with Dwight Howard.

Raph12
03-03-2010, 04:31 PM
Easily Dwight Howard, Magic are 3rd in Defensive Efficiency, while Dwight leads the league in DRPG, BPG, D Rating and D Win shares.

Artest and Crash should get some love though.

still1ballin
03-03-2010, 04:43 PM
Artest def. should get some consideration

ARMIN12NBA
03-03-2010, 06:37 PM
Ron Artest has been playing the best man defense this year and is on the #1 defensive rated team in the NBA.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-03-2010, 06:46 PM
Mr defense himself, David Lee

RaptorizedKevin
03-03-2010, 07:19 PM
ron artest is amazing. hes probably the most consistant defender. i mean ,locking down superstars? thats insane. Although he limited durant to 29 points, which is his scorinjg average. Ron made durant take alot of shots, because his defense was so amazing. He also forced durant to make alot of turnovers. hes amazing. although artest isnt that great SCOORINg why because hes the the 4th best option on the lakers roaster, he plays arguable the best defense. Yu see the lakers are built on stronge d. kobe is one of the best defenders in teh game, same with artest. Bynum and gasol, are very good post defenders, and lamar is a versatile defender.

Teeboy1487
03-03-2010, 07:40 PM
I know everyone is saying Dwight but Ron-Ron deserves to be up there with Dwight. His defense has been spectacular.

MrFastBreak
03-03-2010, 08:23 PM
I think Varajao has a pretty strong case. Cleveland plays like the best D in the league while he's on the floor, and they play roughly like the Knicks' defense when he's on the bench. Naturally, not all of Cleveland's great on-court D can be attributed to Andy, but since no one else on the Cavs with more than 820 minutes has a positive defensive on/off +/-, it's safe to say that Varejao has been one of the most integral parts of their 5th-ranked D. Not saying his defensive impact is anywhere close to Howard's, but hes an underrated player and an excellent defender. Hes better than most people will give him credit for because of his reputation as a goofy flopper.

EL HEAT
03-03-2010, 09:06 PM
I think Howard will win it again, but I think Thabo Sefolosha should also get some consideration imo.

Baller1
03-03-2010, 10:01 PM
Just curious from fans that face him...

What do you guys think of Sefolosha as a defender? He really doesn't get talked about much (at all), so is he not good enough in the eyes of the rest of the league, is it the team he's on, or just the simple fact that his name isn't "out there"?

ko8e24
03-03-2010, 10:06 PM
Dwight Howard will probably get it because blocks looks nice when you see that 2-3 BPG next to a center's name.

But Ron Artest is the superior defensive basketball player with better defensive techniques and better defensive instincts.

ko8e24
03-03-2010, 10:07 PM
Just curious from fans that face him...

What do you guys think of Sefolosha as a defender? He really doesn't get talked about much (at all), so is he not good enough in the eyes of the rest of the league, is it the team he's on, or just the simple fact that his name isn't "out there"?

Thabo is a very good, underrated defender in this league. In his days with the Bulls, and now OKC, he's given Kobe a bit of trouble at times.

Bashna
03-03-2010, 10:18 PM
Ron Artest has been playing the best man defense this year and is on the #1 defensive rated team in the NBA.

I believe the cavs are #1 in Defensive rating.

I'd go with :

Dwight
Crash
Ron
Varejao
?

kozelkid
03-03-2010, 10:27 PM
Just curious from fans that face him...

What do you guys think of Sefolosha as a defender? He really doesn't get talked about much (at all), so is he not good enough in the eyes of the rest of the league, is it the team he's on, or just the simple fact that his name isn't "out there"?

Very good defender. Underrated and in the perfect team where his AWFUL offense won't hurt them much seeing as a guy like Kevin Durant gives him much openings in the defense.

Raph12
03-03-2010, 10:33 PM
I believe the cavs are #1 in Defensive rating.

I'd go with :

Dwight
Crash
Ron
Varejao
?

You believe wrong, the Lakers are 1st, with Boston, Orlando, Oklahoma and Charlotte rounding out the top 5.


Dwight Howard will probably get it because blocks looks nice when you see that 2-3 BPG next to a center's name.

But Ron Artest is the superior defensive basketball player with better defensive techniques and better defensive instincts.

Not even close, Dwight's footwork, positioning, discipline, quick hands, great instincts and tremendous athleticism should make this a unanimous victory. Not to mention, Ron's permitted to be much more physical with the guys he's guarding while Dwight's often called for tick-tacky fouls.

Plus Dwight leads the league in defensive rating, win shares, shot blocking, rebounding... Shall I go on?

ko8e24
03-03-2010, 10:36 PM
You believe wrong, the Lakers are 1st, with Boston, Orlando, Oklahoma and Charlotte rounding out the top 5.



Not even close, Dwight's footwork, positioning, discipline, quick hands, great instincts and tremendous athleticism should make this a unanimous victory. Not to mention, Ron's permitted to be much more physical with the guys he's guarding while Dwight's often called for tick-tacky fouls.

Plus Dwight leads the league in defensive rating, win shares, shot blocking, rebounding... Shall I go on?

Ron's permitted sometimes, but you're right in the regard that Dwight is called for those damn ticky-tack fouls

ManRam
03-03-2010, 10:42 PM
Ron-Ron is a shut down defender. Dwight Howard is the ultimate team/help defender. He cleans up everyone else's mistakes. His overall impact on a team is significantly larger, especially throughout a season. In a playoff series, having a shutdown wing defender is almost a necessity verse some teams...but Dwight has the ability to make a top 3 defense out of a group of starters consisting of 3 average at best defenders. If Jameer or Vince (both weak defenders) get beat, he's there to clean up their mistakes. His impact is felt almost every single possession.

I think there is a reason why 80-90% of the winners are big men- they just have the ability to impact the game defensively in so many more ways.

masalex1205
03-03-2010, 11:02 PM
Im going to go w/

1.) Dwight
2.) Crash
3.) Artest
4.) Smith

masalex1205
03-03-2010, 11:03 PM
I can't believe Wade hasn't been mentioned. I think Dwight should get it over him but Wade is a hell of a defender.

_KB24_
03-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Dwight obviously is going to take it. Ron should get some love though.

CAVS21
03-04-2010, 02:40 AM
Obviously I'd love to see varejao win it but I know that it's Dwight. Andy should get some votes though.

ko8e24
03-04-2010, 03:10 AM
Obviously I'd love to see varejao win it but I know that it's Dwight. Andy should get some votes though.

:laugh:

:laugh:

:laugh:

YankeeFan89
03-04-2010, 03:12 AM
Jared Jeffries

RadiantShot
03-04-2010, 10:42 AM
Dwight Howard. Artest is valuable, but honestly, without Dwight, our team would fall apart, no doubt. Without Artest's defense, the Lakers would still be contenders regardless. That's the difference. Dwight is basically the Magic defense, anyone who says otherwise doesn't watch the Magic. I'll throw MP in there for our Magic defense, but without Dwight, we'll absolutely fall apart on the defensive end. End of story.

dwadefan03
03-04-2010, 11:07 AM
I can't believe Wade hasn't been mentioned. I think Dwight should get it over him but Wade is a hell of a defender.

nice to hear that from a cats fan. but anyways i think he had a better chance at winning it last year than he dies this year.

id go with ron artest

TheKing23
03-04-2010, 11:14 AM
:laugh:

:laugh:

:laugh:

Why is that funny?

The guys is one of the best post defenders in the league and anybody would LOVE him on their team. People just don't like him because of his hustle, he never gives up on plays and that annoys the hell out of opposing players and fans.

People bash the guy for "flopping" but he's using a legitimate method of stopping his opponent. When he "flops" and doesn't get the call, it's pretty much the same as Dwight going for a block and fouling someone. When he draws that charge he's getting a stop, the same as someone getting a block or steal, but for some reason people don't value it as highly and it's considered "dirty" or "cheating"...

The guy definitely deserves some love, and i'm not being a homer. He deserves 2nd team AT LEAST, and I wouldn't be surprised if he sneaks onto the 1st team.

Double_R
03-04-2010, 12:09 PM
Here is a much larger sample size of what Ron has done this year against good talent:

Keep in mind that the bottom numbers are the various players' statistical avgs. for the year.


10/27/09 OPENING NIGHT
Al Thornton
8 points (4/11 [36%], 0/0 from 3), 1 TOV
PTS 11.1 -- FG% .484 -- 3P% .389 -- TOV 1.3


10/30/09
Dirk Nowitzki
21 points (5/14 [35%], 1/4 from 3 [25%]), 1 TOV
PTS 25.0 -- FG% .477 -- 3P% .360 -- TOV 1.83
* Artest guarded him


11/1/09
Marvin Williams
6 points (1/6 [16%], 0/2 from 3, 1 TOV
PTS 10.0 -- FG% 43 -- 3P% .330 -- TOV 0.8


11/3/09
Kevin Durant
28 points (10/24 [41%], 0/8 from 3), 7 TOV
PTS 29.7 -- FG% .478 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 3.63


11/4/09
Trevor Ariza
15 points (5/21 [23%], 2/7 from 3 [28%]), 3 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


11/15/09
Trevor Ariza
9 points (2/12 [16%], 1/7 from 3 [14%]), 6 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


11/17/09
Charlie Villanueva
2 points (1/6 [16%]. 0/2 from 3), 0 TOV, 23 minutes
PTS -- 12.4 -- FG% .435 -- 3P% .330 -- TOV 1.18 -- MPG 25
* Artest guarded him


11/19/09
Luol Deng
6 points (3/11 [27%], 0/2 from 3), 2 TOV
PTS -- 18.2 -- FG% .465 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 1.98


11/22/09
Kevin Durant
19 points (8/20 [40%], 2/5 from 3 [40%]), 3 TOV
PTS 29.7 -- FG% .478 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 3.63


11/24/09
Wilson Chandler
15 points (5/20 [25%], 1/6 from 3 [16%]), 1 TOV
PTS 15.3 -- FG% .477 -- 3P% .283 -- TOV 1.76


11/29/09
Chris Douglas-Roberts
5 points (2/11 [18%], 1/1 from 3), 1 TOV
PTS 11.0 -- FG% .453 -- 3P% .300 -- TOV 1.60


12/9/09
Ronnie Brewer
9 points (3/8 [37%], 0/0 from 3) 1 TOV
PTS 9.5 -- FG% .495 -- 3P% .495 -- TOV 1.0


12/11/09
Ryan Gomes
4 points (2/6 [33%], 0/1 from 3) 2 TOV
PTS 10.4 -- FG% .446 -- 3P% .367 -- TOV 1.24


12/16/09
Carlos Delfino
0 points (0/2, 0/1 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 10.3 -- FG% .407 -- 3P% .356 -- TOV 1.62


12/25/09
LeBron James
26 points (9/19 [47%], 2/7 [28%]) 7 TOV
PTS 30.0 -- FG% .503 -- 3P% .350 -- TOV 3.48


1/5/10
Trevor Ariza
12 points (5/14 [35%], 1/5 from 3 [20%]) 2 TOV
PTS 15.4 -- FG% .383 -- 3P% .318 -- TOV 2.3


1/15/10
Rasual Butler
7 points (2/8 [25%], 0/3 from 3) 0 TOV
PTS 11.5 -- FG% .418 -- 3P% .350 -- TOV 0.76


1/24/10
Hedo Turkoglu
9 points (1/6 [16%], 1/2 from 3 [50%]) 0 TOV
PTS 12.7 -- FG% .415 -- 3P% .381 -- TOV 1.83


1/29/10
Andre Iguodala
8 points (3/7 [42%], 0/1 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 17.2 -- FG% .432 -- 3P% .309 -- TOV 2.59


1/31/10
Paul Pierce
15 points (4/11 [36%], 3/7 from 3 [42%]) 4 TOV
PTS 17.9 -- FG% .460 -- 3P% .439 -- TOV 2.57


2/6/10
Martell Webster
2 points (1/7 [14%], 0/4 from 3) 2 TOV
PTS 10.4 -- FG% .404 -- 3P% .372 -- TOV 0.84


2/8/10
Richard Jefferson
9 points (2/9 [22%], 0/1 from 3) 0 TOV
PTS 12.2 -- FG% .448 -- 3P% .348 -- TOV 1.34


2/16/10
Corey Maggette
17 points (4/13 [30%], 0/0 from 3) 6 TOV
PTS 20.2 -- FG% .510 -- 3P% .238 -- TOV 2.52


2/18/10
Paul Pierce
11 points (4/9 [44%], 1/4 from 3 [25%]) 1 TOV
PTS 17.9 -- FG% .460 -- 3P% .439 -- TOV 2.57


2/23/10
Rudy Gay
17 points (7/17 [41%], 0/1 from 3) 1 TOV
PTS 20.2 -- FG% .471 -- 3P% .326 -- TOV 1.89


2/24/10
Shawn Marion
10 points (5/11 [45%], 0/0 from 3) 5 TOV
PTS 11.4 -- FG% .498 -- 3P% .083 -- TOV 1.35


2/26/10
Andre Iguodala
13 points (5/15 [33%], 1/6 from 3 [16%]) 2 TOV
PTS 17.2 -- FG% .432 -- 3P% .309 -- TOV 2.59


2/28/10
Carmelo Anthony
21 points (7/19 [36%], 0/2 from 3) 8 TOV
PTS 28.8 -- FG% .457 -- 3P% .344 -- TOV 3.26

1/2/10
Danny Granger
9 points (2/9 [22%], 1/2 from 3 [50%]), 4 TOV
PTS 23.0 -- FG% .418 -- 3P% .354 -- TOV 2.49


Dude come on with that, Ron has played so so defense for much of the season, he will tell you that himself... He has Plantar fasciitis and has been losing weight to make himself more mobile, that is why he has come on so strong as of late... Don't get me wrong, Ron Ron is an animal on the D, but most of these guys you put up here(there names are in bold) are quite limited offensively to be nice... not to mention that Ron doesn't guard those dudes the whole time, he has great teammates (Kobe, Odom, Fisher) that help... So what are you saying by this, is JR Smith and Affalo the best defenders in the NBA since Kobe went 3-17 the other day.

Here's the games you left out from the actual good players on your list, seems you missed a few... Look down and then erase Artest from the conversation. You blew it with this sample of players

If your gonna put Durant's name, then show the game where he went 11-19 for 30pts

or Rudy Gay's 10-19, 25pts or his 8-16 22pts

or Corey Maggette Where is his 5-10, 17pts game or his 7-11, 25pts

or Lebron's 13-25, 37pts 9ast

or Dirk's 10-19, 31pts on 2/24

or Melo's 11-20, 25pts also you should have put up his replacement JR Smith when Melo was out and he went 11-17, 27pts

This is just a list of the players you included... There are others, I just don't have the time...

Raph12
03-04-2010, 12:18 PM
Why is that funny?

The guys is one of the best post defenders in the league and anybody would LOVE him on their team. People just don't like him because of his hustle, he never gives up on plays and that annoys the hell out of opposing players and fans.

People bash the guy for "flopping" but he's using a legitimate method of stopping his opponent. When he "flops" and doesn't get the call, it's pretty much the same as Dwight going for a block and fouling someone. When he draws that charge he's getting a stop, the same as someone getting a block or steal, but for some reason people don't value it as highly and it's considered "dirty" or "cheating"...

The guy definitely deserves some love, and i'm not being a homer. He deserves 2nd team AT LEAST, and I wouldn't be surprised if he sneaks onto the 1st team.

I agree he's underrated, but he's still not DPOY quality, this is my rankings for post defense:

1. Dwight
2. Perk
3. Sheed
4. Bogut
5. Haywood
6. Duncan
7. Garnett
8. Camby
9. Varejao
10. Nene

I think he's a more valuable player on both ends than people give him credit for, but on defense, all he does is flop and the refs have recognized that, so he doesn't even get the benefit of the call most of the time.

TheKing23
03-04-2010, 12:47 PM
I agree he's underrated, but he's still not DPOY quality, this is my rankings for post defense:

1. Dwight
2. Perk
3. Sheed
4. Bogut
5. Haywood
6. Duncan
7. Garnett
8. Camby
9. Varejao
10. Nene

I think he's a more valuable player on both ends than people give him credit for, but on defense, all he does is flop and the refs have recognized that, so he doesn't even get the benefit of the call most of the time.

You prove my point with your last paragraph... You have obviously not watched him play enough this year, or focussed on his defense. He doesn't just "flop", this season he has "flopped" less than ever for the exact point you used, he doesn't get the benefit of the call anymore.

His energy allows him to get into the passing lanes and he gives his men hell down in the post. he's always jostling for position and has developed a great awareness for when to front his man and when not too. You can tell he studies game tape because he always shades players to their weaker side and he has great defensive footwork and agility. All of this has developed partially due to his experiences in the FIBA Americas this summer and his defensive game consists of a lot more than just "flopping".

As for the guys you mentioned, only Dwight, Perk and Duncan are playing better defense than him this season. Bogut is playing great defense but his team isn't benefitting from it.

He's not gonna win DPOY, i'm just saying he deserves to be on the 1st or 2nd team and I reckon he could finish in the top 5 in voting at the end of the year.

I see it panning out something like this:

1. Dwight Howard
2. Ron Artest (even though this is probably his worst defensive season in years)
3. LeBron James
4. Gerald Wallace
5. Anderson Varejao

Avenged
03-04-2010, 12:55 PM
Why is that funny?

The guys is one of the best post defenders in the league and anybody would LOVE him on their team. People just don't like him because of his hustle, he never gives up on plays and that annoys the hell out of opposing players and fans.

People bash the guy for "flopping" but he's using a legitimate method of stopping his opponent. When he "flops" and doesn't get the call, it's pretty much the same as Dwight going for a block and fouling someone. When he draws that charge he's getting a stop, the same as someone getting a block or steal, but for some reason people don't value it as highly and it's considered "dirty" or "cheating"...

The guy definitely deserves some love, and i'm not being a homer. He deserves 2nd team AT LEAST, and I wouldn't be surprised if he sneaks onto the 1st team.

Varejao is good but their are better defenders than him, you have to agree.

By the way, nice sig! :laugh2:

TheKing23
03-04-2010, 01:14 PM
Varejao is good but their are better defenders than him, you have to agree.

By the way, nice sig! :laugh2:

Yes of course, but that's not many guys that have played better defense than him this season.

Haha, thanks. Can't wait to get him back!

Raph12
03-04-2010, 01:31 PM
You prove my point with your last paragraph... You have obviously not watched him play enough this year, or focussed on his defense. He doesn't just "flop", this season he has "flopped" less than ever for the exact point you used, he doesn't get the benefit of the call anymore.

His energy allows him to get into the passing lanes and he gives his men hell down in the post. he's always jostling for position and has developed a great awareness for when to front his man and when not too. You can tell he studies game tape because he always shades players to their weaker side and he has great defensive footwork and agility. All of this has developed partially due to his experiences in the FIBA Americas this summer and his defensive game consists of a lot more than just "flopping".

As for the guys you mentioned, only Dwight, Perk and Duncan are playing better defense than him this season. Bogut is playing great defense but his team isn't benefitting from it.

He's not gonna win DPOY, i'm just saying he deserves to be on the 1st or 2nd team and I reckon he could finish in the top 5 in voting at the end of the year.

I see it panning out something like this:

1. Dwight Howard
2. Ron Artest (even though this is probably his worst defensive season in years)
3. LeBron James
4. Gerald Wallace
5. Anderson Varejao

I see where you're coming from and you're right, I haven't seen as many Cavs games as I used to. But from what I have seen, I don't think his man defense is better than Bogut or even Sheed's for that matter and Camby is a great help defender and his presence on that end is larger than Andy's.

KG has been subpar, so I'll give you that one, but I'd take Dwight, Perk, Duncan, Bogut, Sheed and Camby before I take Andy on defense. He's a great guy to have and maybe the best "hustle-guy" in the NBA, but those guys are just better IMO.

jim51990
03-04-2010, 01:38 PM
dwight should win but both artest and lebron should get some votes

MagicDojo
03-04-2010, 02:10 PM
Why is that funny?

The guys is one of the best post defenders in the league and anybody would LOVE him on their team. People just don't like him because of his hustle, he never gives up on plays and that annoys the hell out of opposing players and fans.

People bash the guy for "flopping" but he's using a legitimate method of stopping his opponent. When he "flops" and doesn't get the call, it's pretty much the same as Dwight going for a block and fouling someone. When he draws that charge he's getting a stop, the same as someone getting a block or steal, but for some reason people don't value it as highly and it's considered "dirty" or "cheating"...

The guy definitely deserves some love, and i'm not being a homer. He deserves 2nd team AT LEAST, and I wouldn't be surprised if he sneaks onto the 1st team.

Its funny because: If Andy is such a good defender why did the Cavs Bring in Shaq to defend Howard.
And FLOPPING: Is a last resort wussy ***** lame lazy homerific style of defense when you are so overmatched that all you can do is fall down and pray that the officails blow the whistle on your sorry skirt wearing ladybusiness!:cry:
Not to be confused with taking a charge. It takes a man to stand in there and get leveled, we all know the Andy FLop where the slightest bump sends her flying and she flails her arms and snaps her neck back like her neck is a noodle like she got kicked by a Trex. I cannot stand flopping babies. If you get knocked to the ground thats fine, be a man, don't take me to drama camp, this is the NBA.

20R8ersfaN08
03-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Ron Artest = The Nnmadi Asomugha of the NBA

masalex1205
03-04-2010, 02:37 PM
nice to hear that from a cats fan. but anyways i think he had a better chance at winning it last year than he dies this year.

id go with ron artest

I give credit where credit is due. I think Wade should at least be in the discussion. I appreciate everybody who's keeping Crash's name in this. Even with my homerism I still know that he isn't a more valuable defender than Dwight, I mean a big time defensive force in the middle like that is a rarity while defensive small forwards aren't as rare- Crash, Artest, Lebron, Prince (at least previously), Josh Smith

Anyway I don't think you could go wrong w/ any of these guys:

Dwight
Crash
Artest
Wade
Josh Smith

Double_R
03-04-2010, 03:13 PM
One thing that I haven't seen brought up is that Dwight is about to lead the NBA in blocks and rebounds for the second straight year... No one has ever lead the NBA in blocks and rebounds twice let alone back to back... I think it something like 4 or 5(including Dwight) have ever done it... that is some pretty impressive stuff

tredigs
03-04-2010, 04:07 PM
Dwight is unquestionably the defensive player of the year, he changes entire offenses, nobody in the league comes close.

But that said, Bogut should be the #2 on this list. He's a HUGE force down low for them -- guy blocks the second most shots in the league, is a top ten rebounder... and to boot? He takes the 2nd most charges in the league. The Boogy Man does it all.

TheKing23
03-04-2010, 04:13 PM
Its funny because: If Andy is such a good defender why did the Cavs Bring in Shaq to defend Howard.
And FLOPPING: Is a last resort wussy ***** lame lazy homerific style of defense when you are so overmatched that all you can do is fall down and pray that the officails blow the whistle on your sorry skirt wearing ladybusiness!:cry:
Not to be confused with taking a charge. It takes a man to stand in there and get leveled, we all know the Andy FLop where the slightest bump sends her flying and she flails her arms and snaps her neck back like her neck is a noodle like she got kicked by a Trex. I cannot stand flopping babies. If you get knocked to the ground thats fine, be a man, don't take me to drama camp, this is the NBA.

Sounds like Andy's doing his job and getting under people's skin...

MagicDojo
03-04-2010, 04:41 PM
Sounds like Andy's doing his job and getting under people's skin...


Really? come on it must make you a little embarrassed. You will never see Howard do it. Bron doesn't flop. Maybe they just have to much pride and skill...:eyebrow:

MrFastBreak
03-04-2010, 08:44 PM
Like I said, Andy's an underrated player and a great defender. Hes better than most people will give him credit for because of his reputation as a goofy flopper.

ManRam
03-04-2010, 08:58 PM
I put Andy in my top 5. He doesn't change games like Dwight, but he is peskier than any other player in the league...and nobody has a ticker like his. He does all the dirty work better than anyone else. EVERY team in the league would love to have him on their team.

ARMIN12NBA
03-04-2010, 08:59 PM
Is man defense and competition ignored? Dwight's man defense is solid, but his competition is downright awful. Ron Artest has had to face the most stacked position(s) in the game this year (basically perimeter players).

ILLN355
03-04-2010, 09:04 PM
If Artest wasnt on the Lakers would you guys still say hes the best defender and deserves DPOY? lol

ILLN355
03-04-2010, 09:04 PM
Cause i'm pretty sure last year you guys weren't saying that when a thread like this opened up

TheKing23
03-04-2010, 09:06 PM
I put Andy in my top 5. He doesn't change games like Dwight, but he is peskier than any other player in the league...and nobody has a ticker like his. He does all the dirty work better than anyone else. EVERY team in the league would love to have him on their team.

Once again, ManRam comes through with the unbiased truth.

:clap:

astrosmaniac
03-04-2010, 09:32 PM
i know hes had a down year and one game doesnt make the DPOY, but shane battier had 7 blocks last night. 7! from a SF who isnt lebron and his freakish body (has lebron even had 7 in a game?)

iluvsports2much
03-04-2010, 10:14 PM
hey i love ron artest,i think hes a GREAT defender,top 5 in the NBA no doubt, but this year hes been real inconsistent..the last 3-4 weeks hes been lights out on defense tho,thats why a lot of laker fans are sayin he should get it...if it was defensive player of month, then it would go to ron ron, but for the whole year dwight is more deserving..also, most players that win this award have inflated defensive stats, as of 3/4/10 ron is averaging 1.2 steals .27 blocks and 3.1 defensive rebounds, dwight is averaging 2.77 blocks, 1.0 steals, 9.7 defensive rebounds... stats arent everything, but its a big part of winning this award

_KB24_
03-05-2010, 12:24 AM
If Anderson is getting consideration, there's no way you can look over Turiaf than. It doesn't matter if his team is ****, Ronny is by FAR the superior defender than Varejo.

Raph12
03-05-2010, 01:18 AM
If Artest wasnt on the Lakers would you guys still say hes the best defender and deserves DPOY? lol

Nope, Dwight easily eats Artest on the defensive end, a lot of Artest's physical play is permitted by the refs, whereas Dwight's is often called for tick-tacky fouls and yet his presence is still stronger on that end than any player in the league.

Raph12
03-05-2010, 01:20 AM
Is man defense and competition ignored? Dwight's man defense is solid, but his competition is downright awful. Ron Artest has had to face the most stacked position(s) in the game this year (basically perimeter players).

True the competition isn't as strong in the post as it is on the perimeter. But Artest doesn't change offenses, he bothers the superstars and tries to get into their head, which sometime works and sometimes doesn't... With Dwight in the middle on defense, even the great Lebron James is scared to take it to the basket.

Raph12
03-05-2010, 01:25 AM
Here is an article measuring the impact Dwight's presence has on Lebron's game:


There may not be a more intriguing matchup in the league today than the Cavaliers and Magic.

As they were last year, the Cavaliers have been the best regular-season team in the East. But though their roster is better equipped to deal with Orlando this season, the result of last Sunday's meeting -- a 101-95 Orlando win -- was a reminder that the Magic have what it takes to beat the Cavs come May.

One critical difference between Sunday and the Cavs' earlier two victories against Orlando this season was Dwight Howard's playing time. In the first two games, Howard dealt with foul trouble and played 32 and 31 minutes. But on Sunday, he was on the floor for more than 43 minutes, including the entire second half. Howard led the Magic with 22 points, hurting the Cavs (who are smaller after last week's swap of Zydrunas Ilgauskas for Antawn Jamison) in the low post. But his defensive presence seemed particularly critical in the fourth quarter, when LeBron James scored just three points and the Cavs shot 8-for-23.

Common sense says that Howard's presence has an effect on James' production against the Magic. But just how much? That's a perfect query for StatsCube, which took data from the 16 games the Cavs and Magic have played against each other (including last year's conference finals) over the last three seasons.

The King and Superman
LeBron James vs. Magic, per 36 minutes, since 2007-08
On/Off MIN FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3PT% FTM FTA FT% AST TO PTS TS% +/-
Howard On Floor 565 9.4 19.9 0.473 1.5 4.3 0.338 7.0 9.7 0.724 6.9 3.6 27.3 0.565 -4.4
Howard Off Floor 112 10.9 22.5 0.486 1.3 4.2 0.308 12.2 14.1 0.864 7.4 2.6 35.4 0.615 11.6
Totals 677 9.7 20.4 0.475 1.4 4.3 0.333 7.9 10.4 0.755 7.0 3.4 28.7 0.574 -1.8

TS% = Points/(2*(FGA+(0.44*FTA)))

When Howard is on the bench, James simply destroys the Magic. Note that the numbers above are per-36 minutes, but James has averaged 42.3 minutes in the 16 games. So his no-Howard numbers translate to 41.6 points, 7.2 rebounds and 8.7 assists per contest.

When Howard's on the floor, James' numbers are still strong, but there is a clear drop-off, especially in the scoring department. James' shooting percentage isn't down much, but he's getting fewer shots and making much fewer trips to the line.

And when we look at the distance of the shots James is taking, we see that he's just not getting into the paint.

The King vs. Superman (on floor)
LeBron James vs. Magic w/ Howard on floor, shot distance, since 2007-08
Distance FGM FGA FG% %FGA
Less Than 8 ft. 78 117 0.667 0.374
8-16 ft. 12 35 0.343 0.112
16-24 ft. 35 93 0.376 0.297
24-plus ft. 23 68 0.338 0.217
Totals 148 313 0.473 1

The King vs. Superman (off floor)
LeBron James vs. Magic w/ Howard off floor, shot distance, since 2007-08
Distance FGM FGA FG% %FGA
Less Than 8 ft. 22 34 0.647 0.486
8-16 ft. 3 7 0.429 0.100
16-24 ft. 5 16 0.313 0.229
24-plus ft. 4 13 0.308 0.186
Totals 34 70 0.486 1.000


The off-court numbers aren't a big sample size, but we see that James is clearly getting closer to the basket when Howard isn't in his way.

And it's no secret that James isn't as efficient when he's shooting from a distance.

The Cavs' overall team numbers against the Magic reflect those of their star. With Howard on the floor, Cleveland scores just 102.3 points per 100 possessions and takes 49 percent of its shots within 16 feet of the basket.

With Howard on the bench, the Cavs score 110.5 points per 100 possessions and take 54 percent of their shots within 16 feet of the basket.

For the last few years, it's been clear how important Howard is to Orlando's defense, and his importance goes well beyond blocks and rebounds. Howard's presence in the paint allows the Magic's other defenders to be more aggressive on the perimeter.

Cavs vs. Magic
Cavs vs. Magic, per 48 minutes, since 2007-08
On/Off 2PM 2PA 2P% 3PM 3PA 3PT% FTM FTA FT% TO PTS
Howard On 30.0 63.0 0.476 6.6 17.9 0.370 16.9 23.3 0.725 13.0 96.7
Howard Off 28.3 62.0 0.457 8.5 20.4 0.417 24.1 31.1 0.773 9.6 106.1
Totals 29.6 62.7 0.472 7.0 18.4 0.381 18.4 25.0 0.738 12.3 98.8


The Cavs have actually shot better from 2-point range with Howard on the floor than with him on the bench. But they're less efficient because they shoot worse from 3-point range, get to the line less often and turn the ball more often, evidence that Howard's teammates are more effective defenders when he's behind them.

In the second meeting of the Cavs and Magic this season, Howard picked up his fifth foul with 8:56 left in the game. Stan Van Gundy has subbed for his center immediately after fouls two, three and four, but this time he left Howard on the floor, knowing how important it was to have his center in the game. It immediately paid off, as Orlando went on a 7-0 run, but they went scoreless on the eight possessions after that and lost.

Interestingly, the Magic have been a better offensive team against the Cavs with Howard on the bench (scoring 113.2 points per 100 possessions) than they have been with him on the floor (110.2). But he has more than made up for that difference on the defensive end.

Of course, Howard's presence on the floor isn't as critical as James' presence when these two teams meet. When James is on the bench, the Magic outscore the Cavs by 15.6 points per 100 possessions, as opposed to 5.5 when James is on the floor.

But James, as the numbers show, is not as effective when he's got Howard standing in front of the basket.

ManRam
03-05-2010, 01:27 AM
Den posted this article. Read the part on Dwight...and look at the chart.

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/03/04/nba-hd-a-new-way-to-look-at-basket-protection/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Orlando has an incredible post presence in Dwight Howard and at 4.1 fouls per 40 minutes, he fouls less often than the average center. Perhaps the reason Dwight Howard isn’t getting the MVP recognition many believe he deserves is because he impacts the game in ways that the media can’t articulate. Well here’s the evidence they’re missing. The Magic protect the basket better than any other team in the NBA and they own the third best defense in the land. He’s why.

Artest can shut down one player. Howard impacts the entire opposing offense. Yes, there are better wing players than centers...but Howard deals with every single position in terms of help defense. His impact is without a doubt far more significant than anyone else's in the league.

footballer2369
03-05-2010, 01:46 AM
dwight
artest
etc are decent choices BUT

bogut should get more of a look...

99 d rating at last check, a ton of charges drawn, a ton of blocks, good rebounding...

Chronz
03-05-2010, 03:21 AM
Pretty much what you guys have said, team defense is far more important than man defense.

_KB24_
03-05-2010, 03:42 AM
Pretty much what you guys have said, team defense is far more important than man defense.

Should it play a role when determining who's the DPOY?

RadiantShot
03-05-2010, 10:33 AM
Ron Artest only held Wade to 25 points and 14 assists last night. Obvious winner. :facepalm:.

BigEric
03-05-2010, 10:51 AM
Artest is a Laker, so now he deserves it...

Double_R
03-05-2010, 11:54 AM
Ron Artest only held Wade to 25 points and 14 assists last night. Obvious winner. :facepalm:.


He also guarded Q-Rich who had his best night of the season... 8-14(7-11, 3pts) 25pts

ManRam
03-05-2010, 12:30 PM
Should it play a role when determining who's the DPOY?

Uhh...yes. Dwight has a far more significant on the entire defense. I think that matters.

There's a reason 16 of the last 18 winners have been big men.

Now, if Dwight wasn't as dominant as he is, and Artest did what he does better than what Dwight does, regardless of impact on the game, he'd have a much better chance to win it. Thing is, even irregardless of impact, Dwight does what he does better than Artest.

masalex1205
03-05-2010, 12:38 PM
Hey ManRam and The King,

Not being hostile, just curious. You both say that you'd put Varejao in the top 5 defensively. Which of these players would you say he's better than defensively? Thx.

Wade
Crash
Dwight
Josh Smith
Artest

magicdouglas
03-05-2010, 12:44 PM
Ron Artest only held Wade to 25 points and 14 assists last night. Obvious winner. :facepalm:.

lol!

Like the second post said: It's Dwight, close the thread. Not even close.

ManRam
03-05-2010, 12:48 PM
Hey ManRam and The King,

Not being hostile, just curious. You both say that you'd put Varejao in the top 5 defensively. Which of these players would you say he's better than defensively? Thx.

Wade
Crash
Dwight
Josh Smith
Artest

I don't think Wade has really been in the top 5 discussion all year. He had a huge block last night, but still. It goes back to the big men having a more significant impact on the entire defense argument. I'd put him over Wade. I'm also not a huge Josh Smith fan. He's great, but I think people severely overrate his defense. They seem to get caught up in the blocks. I wont say he's not top 5, but he definitely shouldn't be in consideration to win.

He's the guy who does everything you want him to do. No player in the league has a ticker like his.

Wallace definitely is #3 IMO. His defense rating is significantly better than Ron and Wade's. 1. Dwight 2. Ron 3. Crash. 4. Smith 5. Andy

FairWeatherFan?
03-05-2010, 02:32 PM
1. D12
2. Anderson Varejao
3. Ron Artest

Anyone who doesn't have Howard as the DPOY really needs to watch more of the Magic's games. Although I have to say the same to anyone who doesn't have Andy in the conversation.

masalex1205
03-05-2010, 02:47 PM
I put Andy in my top 5. He doesn't change games like Dwight, but he is peskier than any other player in the league...and nobody has a ticker like his. He does all the dirty work better than anyone else. EVERY team in the league would love to have him on their team.


I don't think Wade has really been in the top 5 discussion all year. He had a huge block last night, but still. It goes back to the big men having a more significant impact on the entire defense argument. I'd put him over Wade. I'm also not a huge Josh Smith fan. He's great, but I think people severely overrate his defense. They seem to get caught up in the blocks. I wont say he's not top 5, but he definitely shouldn't be in consideration to win.

He's the guy who does everything you want him to do. No player in the league has a ticker like his.

Wallace definitely is #3 IMO. His defense rating is significantly better than Ron and Wade's. 1. Dwight 2. Ron 3. Crash. 4. Smith 5. Andy

fair enough, I agree w/ you that big men have a bigger impact defensively on defense, I mean just look at Dwight.

tredigs
03-05-2010, 09:27 PM
In case anyone out there had any doubt that Dwight is the Defensive POY, this article/chart from Hollywood Paroxyism that the other thread featured should solidify it.

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/03/04/nba-hd-a-new-way-to-look-at-basket-protection/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Orlando has an incredible post presence in Dwight Howard and at 4.1 fouls per 40 minutes, he fouls less often than the average center. Perhaps the reason Dwight Howard isn’t getting the MVP recognition many believe he deserves is because he impacts the game in ways that the media can’t articulate. Well here’s the evidence they’re missing. The Magic protect the basket better than any other team in the NBA and they own the third best defense in the land. He’s why.

MrFastBreak
03-05-2010, 09:48 PM
I'm also not a huge Josh Smith fan. He's great, but I think people severely overrate his defense. They seem to get caught up in the blocks. I wont say he's not top 5, but he definitely shouldn't be in consideration to win.



So your saying hes only a good defender because he blocks shots?

MagicDojo
03-06-2010, 02:12 PM
In case anyone out there had any doubt that Dwight is the Defensive POY, this article/chart from Hollywood Paroxyism that the other thread featured should solidify it.

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/03/04/nba-hd-a-new-way-to-look-at-basket-protection/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

nice find on the article! very interesting.

MagicDojo
03-06-2010, 02:19 PM
So your saying hes only a good defender because he blocks shots?

Did you even read the article?
Howards defensive threat makes teams take lower percentage shots, away from the rim...

Raph12
03-06-2010, 02:25 PM
Did you even read the article?
Howards defensive threat makes teams take lower percentage shots, away from the rim...

That guy was talking about Josh Smith lol, not Dwight.

defender4m
03-06-2010, 04:12 PM
Varejao or bobby simmons

Kakaroach
03-09-2010, 10:56 PM
Dwight Howard no doubt.

kobe24>lebron23
03-10-2010, 10:43 PM
artest will win it if he keeps playing like he has the last couple of weeks

Chronz
03-10-2010, 11:20 PM
I'd put him over Wade. I'm also not a huge Josh Smith fan. He's great, but I think people severely overrate his defense. They seem to get caught up in the blocks. I wont say he's not top 5, but he definitely shouldn't be in consideration to win.
Ive been a Smith supporter for years now, when he first came into the league he was kind of like how Gerald Wallace was in that he went for the highlight play at the expense of fundamental defense. Gerald changed his style, Smith mastered his. He still gos for them but hes not as aggressive as he used to be. His impact on Atlantas defense is undeniable at this point.

RAW Defensive +/-
2010: -8.6PTS
2009: -0.2PTS
2008: -7.0PTS

Add to the fact that his Defensive Multiplier and DQual #'s were also impressive. Maybe not DPOY worthy but hes a great defender, I dont know how hes fared this year though, but I dont think much has changed.

HawksFan
03-12-2010, 04:44 PM
J-Smoove for DPOY:
http://www.nba.com/hawks/What_I_Do.html

J-Relo
03-13-2010, 05:02 AM
Josh Smith
Gerald Wallace
Dwight Howard??

JayW_1023
03-13-2010, 12:56 PM
I would pick Josh Smith for DPOY. I'm glad he finally stopped chucking threes this season. What a great season for him...it was a sham he didn't make the All-star game.

jmtapia
03-13-2010, 04:37 PM
Dwight or Lebron

CB4AB7VC15
03-14-2010, 02:30 AM
The Raps as a team...........

whitekimbo
03-14-2010, 02:52 AM
there are 2 answers like there seems to be in every NBA thread.

the lakers fans-Artest

the rest of the population-Dwight

the biased answers are so old...

J-Relo
03-14-2010, 04:59 AM
Dwight is overrated. Still one of the best if not the best.

RadiantShot
03-14-2010, 12:25 PM
Dwight is overrated. Still one of the best if not the best.

:facepalm:
Okay, chief.

Raph12
03-14-2010, 01:50 PM
Dwight is overrated. Still one of the best if not the best.

Contradict youself much?

Chronz
03-15-2010, 02:27 AM
You can be the best but still be overrated guys, its his opinion to facepalm it is going too far.

LA_Raiders
03-15-2010, 02:58 AM
Artest, he is playing great D and he improved the teams D thats what a MVP is all about.

GAWDtv
03-15-2010, 04:23 AM
Dwight > All

end of thread lol

No question, and I'm out before the Kobefiles chime in ;)

RadiantShot
03-15-2010, 09:44 AM
I wonder how many Laker fans are going to say Artest. ;)
"Artest should be taken into consideration."

mavwar53
03-15-2010, 10:50 AM
I think it is up in the air, no one really stands out with great numbers so it might be artest if they look at game by game stats of players he guarded.

RadiantShot
03-15-2010, 12:56 PM
I think it is up in the air, no one really stands out with great numbers so it might be artest if they look at game by game stats of players he guarded.

:facepalm:

Iodine
03-15-2010, 01:03 PM
Raekwon / Denzel Washington / Carlos, aka the baby from the hangover/ Tom Brady / Will Lietch

All D team right thurrrrrrr

if you want reasoning Ill tell you after the laker fans do

Raph12
03-15-2010, 01:48 PM
Artest, he is playing great D and he improved the teams D thats what a MVP is all about.

Too bad this thread is for "DPOY" :p

Go to the "2009-2010 MVP Discussion" thread and make your arguement for Artest.

RadiantShot
03-15-2010, 08:27 PM
too bad this thread is for "dpoy" :p

go to the "2009-2010 mvp discussion" thread and make your arguement for artest.

lmao. Fail.

Bausman
03-15-2010, 08:54 PM
Im going to go w/

1.) Dwight
2.) Crash
3.) Artest
4.) Smith

Lol you didnt even mention D Wade yourself... how can you not believe no one has mentioned him?

RadiantShot
03-15-2010, 09:08 PM
Lol you didnt even mention D Wade yourself... how can you not believe no one has mentioned him?

Love that girl in your avatar.
UGHHHH!!!

Chronz
03-16-2010, 05:41 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/fantasy/01/28/midseason.awards2/josh-smith.jpg
Clash of the titans

RadiantShot
03-16-2010, 08:02 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/fantasy/01/28/midseason.awards2/josh-smith.jpg
Clash of the titans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nsgd9ayJ6E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNHfXKK8L4g


http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Orlando+Magic+v+Charlotte+Bobcats+-I_iPNJbEsDl.jpg

http://hansgutknecht.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ds17-lakers-magic13hg.jpg

http://strotty.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dwight.jpg

http://www.theconcretejournal.com/2/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dwightblock1.jpg

http://ui15.gamespot.com/2382/v021340a_2.jpg

Raph12
03-16-2010, 10:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nsgd9ayJ6E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNHfXKK8L4g


http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Orlando+Magic+v+Charlotte+Bobcats+-I_iPNJbEsDl.jpg

http://hansgutknecht.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ds17-lakers-magic13hg.jpg

http://strotty.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dwight.jpg

http://www.theconcretejournal.com/2/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dwightblock1.jpg

http://ui15.gamespot.com/2382/v021340a_2.jpg

I was just about to do this lol.

iggypop123
03-17-2010, 02:06 AM
dhoward has the stats, but almost like a center default. i still gotta go with an outside chance with gerald wallace. to do what he is doing as a SF. wow its amazing

Raph12
03-17-2010, 09:45 AM
dhoward has the stats, but almost like a center default. i still gotta go with an outside chance with gerald wallace. to do what he is doing as a SF. wow its amazing

Yes, but when you lead the league in rpg, bpg, drpg, drat and dws, plus avg 1+spg as a center while anchoring the 3rd best defense in the league (0.4 away from #1) it's hard to argue against him... And he still has time to anchor the offense with his 19ppg on 61.1FG% (#1 in the league) and lead his team to the third best record in the NBA.

KnicksorBust
03-17-2010, 11:06 AM
Yes, but when you lead the league in rpg, bpg, drpg, drat and dws, plus avg 1+spg as a center while anchoring the 3rd best defense in the league (0.4 away from #1) it's hard to argue against him... And he still has time to anchor the offense with his 19ppg on 61.1FG% (#1 in the league) and lead his team to the third best record in the NBA.

Not really much to say after this. I think DPOY is locked up.

What about the whole All-Defensive 1st team?

Raph12
03-17-2010, 01:02 PM
Not really much to say after this. I think DPOY is locked up.

What about the whole All-Defensive 1st team?

G - Rondo
G - Westbrook
F - Artest
F - G-Force
C - Dwight

Law25
03-17-2010, 01:44 PM
Its funny because: If Andy is such a good defender why did the Cavs Bring in Shaq to defend Howard.
And FLOPPING: Is a last resort wussy ***** lame lazy homerific style of defense when you are so overmatched that all you can do is fall down and pray that the officails blow the whistle on your sorry skirt wearing ladybusiness!:cry:
Not to be confused with taking a charge. It takes a man to stand in there and get leveled, we all know the Andy FLop where the slightest bump sends her flying and she flails her arms and snaps her neck back like her neck is a noodle like she got kicked by a Trex. I cannot stand flopping babies. If you get knocked to the ground thats fine, be a man, don't take me to drama camp, this is the NBA.

:clap::clap:
I hate Andy' s floppin game. It makes him look like an wussey b@#$%. I would take Sasha Vujacic playes pesty D over him anyday. Sasha just be wearing cats:D

TheKing23
03-17-2010, 01:53 PM
:clap::clap:
I hate Andy' s floppin game. It makes him look like an wussey b@#$%. I would take Sasha Vujacic playes pesty D over him anyday. Sasha just be wearing cats:D

Another person who doesn't watch the Cavs and just assumes all he does is flop...

JordansBulls
03-17-2010, 02:39 PM
I wish Noah didn't miss that many games otherwise he would have to be considered as well.

tredigs
03-17-2010, 02:44 PM
G - Rondo
G - Westbrook
F - Artest
F - G-Force
C - Dwight

Westbrook's a nice defender for sure, and deserves a spot on one of the teams, but I'd still put Kobe ahead of him on 1st team, even if Artest is the one guarding the other teams best perimeter player for a good chunk of the game.

The thunder player who should be getting a look at a 1st or 2nd team nod is Durant. He is tied for 5th in the league in defensive win shares along with:
Josh Smith and Andrew Bogut, and behind Lebron, Gerald Wallace and Dwight. If that's not damning enough evidence, then you can look at his opponents production against him, http://www.82games.com/0910/0910OKC.HTM, 11.9 avg. That is the best rating in the league, bar none. Slightly better than Kobe's, Lebron's, and even D-Howards.
His stigma will make it tough as hell for him to crack the list, which is a shame. Because the kid has been an unbelievably good defender.

As for who's the DPOY? That's still Dwight. Followed closely by Bogut and then Artest imo.


I wish Noah didn't miss that many games otherwise he would have to be considered as well.

Definitely agree here.

Raph12
03-17-2010, 02:55 PM
Westbrook's a nice defender for sure, and deserves a spot on one of the teams, but I'd still put Kobe ahead of him on 1st team, even if Artest is the one guarding the other teams best perimeter player for a good chunk of the game.

The thunder player who should be getting a look at a 1st or 2nd team nod is Durant. He is tied for 5th in the league in defensive win shares along with:
Josh Smith and Andrew Bogut, and behind Lebron, Gerald Wallace and Dwight. If that's not damning enough evidence, then you can look at his opponents production against him, http://www.82games.com/0910/0910OKC.HTM, 11.9 avg. That is the best rating in the league, bar none. Slightly better than Kobe's, Lebron's, and even D-Howards.
His stigma will make it tough as hell for him to crack the list, which is a shame. Because the kid has been an unbelievably good defender.

As for who's the DPOY? That's still Dwight. Followed closely by Bogut and then Artest imo.



Definitely agree here.

But Durant doesn't guard the oppenents best player either, that's why I didn't include Kobe, Lebron or Durant in this; Artest, Parker and Sefolosha tend to guard the opposing team's best player. I hardly consider guarding Artest, or Afflalo, or Barnes, or w/e to be a difficult task.

I watched a couple of OKC games since we last talked and I'll say this, I'm very impressed with Durant, but I'm even more distressed with how overlooked Westbrook is. His on-ball defense is outstanding and from what I've seen, I'd go ahead and put him right up there with Rondo as best defender playing the point.

Durant gets serious consideration for one of the teams, the hardest decision was to take Kobe off the first team, but from what I've seen, Westbrook deserves some more respect for his play on both ends of the floor.

macc
03-17-2010, 03:13 PM
Another person who doesn't watch the Cavs and just assumes all he does is flop...



Come on man. You know he flops, and when he doesn't flop and just gets bumped he overexaggerates everything. Plus the long hair flinging around everywhere just makes it look that much worse.

You one of my favorite Cavs fans because you're normally not to bias in your comments but you have to agree that V is our modern day Divac, if not worse.

tredigs
03-17-2010, 03:18 PM
But Durant doesn't guard the oppenents best player either, that's why I didn't include Kobe, Lebron or Durant in this; Artest, Parker and Sefolosha tend to guard the opposing team's best player. I hardly consider guarding Artest, or Afflalo, or Barnes, or w/e to be a difficult task.

I watched a couple of OKC games since we last talked and I'll say this, I'm very impressed with Durant, but I'm even more distressed with how overlooked Westbrook is. His on-ball defense is outstanding and from what I've seen, I'd go ahead and put him right up there with Rondo as best defender playing the point.

Durant gets serious consideration for one of the teams, the hardest decision was to take Kobe off the first team, but from what I've seen, Westbrook deserves some more respect for his play on both ends of the floor.

Agree with pretty much all of this, though all of them do guard the opposing teams best perimeter player for periods, like in Durant's case because Sefolosha only plays about 28 mins a game, so Durant and sometimes Westbrook take the top guard for the other 15 or so that he's in. Kobe does the same with Ron out, and even sometimes while he's in. I'm not saying Durant has to be 1st team, but both he, Westbrook and Sefolosha should be talked about for making at least one of them. That teams defense is what's carrying them to the top of the West standings.

Raph12
03-17-2010, 03:42 PM
Agree with pretty much all of this, though all of them do guard the opposing teams best perimeter player for periods, like in Durant's case because Sefolosha only plays about 28 mins a game, so Durant and sometimes Westbrook take the top guard for the other 15 or so that he's in. Kobe does the same with Ron out, and even sometimes while he's in. I'm not saying Durant has to be 1st team, but both he, Westbrook and Sefolosha should be talked about for making at least one of them. That teams defense is what's carrying them to the top of the West standings.

I totally agree, I do apologize for some of my earlier comments on Durant, he is a much improved defender, but he's still the lesser of the three IMO. He needs to work on his ballhandling/slashing ability, maybe gain some weight and take guys into the post a bit. His ability to hit contested jumpers is really a beauty to see, sort of a mix between Ray and Kobe, where he can come off the screen and hit the jumper/3 or he can create for himself off the dribble.

Westbrook is terribly underrated, while Green and Harden are solid... They maybe one big man away from elite status.

TheKing23
03-17-2010, 03:54 PM
Come on man. You know he flops, and when he doesn't flop and just gets bumped he overexaggerates everything. Plus the long hair flinging around everywhere just makes it look that much worse.

You one of my favorite Cavs fans because you're normally not to bias in your comments but you have to agree that V is our modern day Divac, if not worse.

No I agree the guys does flop, but a few seasons ago that was pretty much the whole of his defense. I have watched every Cavs game this season and he "flops" less than once a game.

I just hate the fact people label him a flopper as if it's a bad thing... I've compared his flopping to Dwight's shot blocking. Both completely legitimate and legal methods of stopping your opponent. Andy "flopping" and giving away a foul is the same as Dwight going for a block and fouling someone. When Dwight blocks a shot he's stopping a FG, when Andy draws a charge, he's forcing a turnover. People seem to think that flopping is cheating or unsportmanslike. If it was, it wouldn't be legal. It actually involves a lot of skill to predict where the player is gonna go and getting there before him.

I understand why so many people hate him, but if he was on your team or anyone's team for that matter, you have an undying love for him because of his effort and hustle. I just hate it when people label him a flopper and say that's all he does on defense, because it clearly shows they don't watch the Cavs. He's about 60% hustle, 35% defensive ability and 5% attempting to draw a charge.

ko8e24
03-17-2010, 04:14 PM
Dwight Howard, Ron Artest, Josh Smith, in that order.

tredigs
03-17-2010, 04:32 PM
I totally agree, I do apologize for some of my earlier comments on Durant, he is a much improved defender, but he's still the lesser of the three IMO. He needs to work on his ballhandling/slashing ability, maybe gain some weight and take guys into the post a bit. His ability to hit contested jumpers is really a beauty to see, sort of a mix between Ray and Kobe, where he can come off the screen and hit the jumper/3 or he can create for himself off the dribble.

Westbrook is terribly underrated, while Green and Harden are solid... They maybe one big man away from elite status.

Spot on, agreed.

Double_R
03-17-2010, 04:38 PM
No I agree the guys does flop, but a few seasons ago that was pretty much the whole of his defense. I have watched every Cavs game this season and he "flops" less than once a game.

I just hate the fact people label him a flopper as if it's a bad thing... I've compared his flopping to Dwight's shot blocking. Both completely legitimate and legal methods of stopping your opponent. Andy "flopping" and giving away a foul is the same as Dwight going for a block and fouling someone. When Dwight blocks a shot he's stopping a FG, when Andy draws a charge, he's forcing a turnover. People seem to think that flopping is cheating or unsportmanslike. If it was, it wouldn't be legal. It actually involves a lot of skill to predict where the player is gonna go and getting there before him.

I understand why so many people hate him, but if he was on your team or anyone's team for that matter, you have an undying love for him because of his effort and hustle. I just hate it when people label him a flopper and say that's all he does on defense, because it clearly shows they don't watch the Cavs. He's about 60% hustle, 35% defensive ability and 5% attempting to draw a charge.

Just cause he draws less than one charge a game doesn't mean he flops less than one a game. Most legit bigs don't flop period. He's always gonna be a flopper.


HAHAHAHHAHA, It actually involves a lot of skill to predict where the player is gonna go and getting there before him"... that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Your right it involves so much skill to stand in front of someone, the only skill it involves is acting.

TheKing23
03-17-2010, 05:01 PM
Just cause he draws less than one charge a game doesn't mean he flops less than one a game. Most legit bigs don't flop period. He's always gonna be a flopper.


HAHAHAHHAHA, It actually involves a lot of skill to predict where the player is gonna go and getting there before him"... that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Your right it involves so much skill to stand in front of someone, the only skill it involves is acting.

No he "flops" less than once a game... Obviously there is no stat for this but it's something you can clearly see if you watch him play.

If drawing a charge doesn't involve any skill why doesn't everyone do it? It's a legit method of forcing a turnover... So are you discrediting Steve Nash, Derek Fisher and Shane Battier who are among the best in the league at drawing charges as "actors"... Great display of basketball knowledge.

Raph12
03-17-2010, 05:07 PM
No he "flops" less than once a game... Obviously there is no stat for this but it's something you can clearly see if you watch him play.

If drawing a charge doesn't involve any skill why doesn't everyone do it? It's a legit method of forcing a turnover... So are you discrediting Steve Nash, Derek Fisher and Shane Battier who are among the best in the league at drawing charges as "actors"... Great display of basketball knowledge.

You do know faking a hit is also considered flopping, Varejao's head bobs more than a bobblehead doll in the post (trying to get a call for an elbow).

He's an underrated defender no doubt, but not DPOY worthy.

Chronz
03-17-2010, 06:40 PM
Just cause he draws less than one charge a game doesn't mean he flops less than one a game. Most legit bigs don't flop period. He's always gonna be a flopper.


HAHAHAHHAHA, It actually involves a lot of skill to predict where the player is gonna go and getting there before him"... that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Your right it involves so much skill to stand in front of someone, the only skill it involves is acting.
I wasnt going to say anything but after reading both of your posts, its clear as day, you lack any sort of basketball IQ.

Chronz
03-17-2010, 06:41 PM
You do know faking a hit is also considered flopping, Varejao's head bobs more than a bobblehead doll in the post (trying to get a call for an elbow).

He's an underrated defender no doubt, but not DPOY worthy.

Hes more DPOY worthy than people think

Raph12
03-17-2010, 07:41 PM
Hes more DPOY worthy than people think

Agreed, but putting him in the talks with Dwight is just wrong.

Defensively: Dwight > Everyone else on the planet

Chronz
03-17-2010, 09:31 PM
Dwight is pretty good, but you take it overboard with stuff like no one else aside from Dwight can guard Shaq, even though the Magic constantly double teamed him. Jason Collins can guard Shaq better than Dwight, but his team D isnt as strong.

jmtapia
03-17-2010, 11:43 PM
1. Dwight
2. LeBron
3. Josh Smith

MZN7
03-18-2010, 02:08 AM
i think josh smith deserves alot more credit than he is getting.
im hoping he gets it.

IRUAM #21
03-18-2010, 06:11 PM
Gtfo !!!

tredigs
03-18-2010, 06:14 PM
It must be Dwight Howard] (http://onlinebrandseller.com)

Can someone ban this idiot already??

Raidaz4Life
03-18-2010, 06:15 PM
Dwight

Lakersfan2483
03-19-2010, 12:39 PM
Howard should be a lock for the award as his defense has been impressive. Dwight's overall impact on defense is tops in the NBA.

ragee
03-19-2010, 02:15 PM
1. Dwight
2. LeBron
3. Josh Smith

I think Lebron is a good defender... Not great... People just tend to think that he's great because of his blind side blocks... Can people comment on this? Am I t he only one who thinks Lebron's defense is overrated or do you guys agree with me?

Chronz
03-19-2010, 02:25 PM
I think Lebron is a good defender... Not great... People just tend to think that he's great because of his blind side blocks... Can people comment on this? Am I t he only one who thinks Lebron's defense is overrated or do you guys agree with me?
Ive yet to hear a good argument other than people trying to discredit his chase downs. Its as if the presence of highlight plays is a bad thing. Its like the cliche high steals dont make a good defender, while true its not as if you cant be a great defender who happens to get alot of steals.

Zefflin
03-19-2010, 02:25 PM
Lebron's D is vastly overrated. He was an average at best defender through his first 6 years then he saw first hand Kobe's D at the Olympics, suddenly the next year he's 2nd place DPOY because of his chase down blocks??

1. D12
2. Josh Smith
3. Artest

Chronz
03-19-2010, 02:59 PM
See what I mean about his chase downs, its all anyone ever says to degrade his D..... then of course a hint of Kobe bias adds to the cred


Lebron's D is vastly overrated. He was an average at best defender through his first 6 years then he saw first hand Kobe's D at the Olympics, suddenly the next year he's 2nd place DPOY because of his chase down blocks??

1. D12
2. Josh Smith
3. Artest
He was a poor defender up until year 3, a few years under Brown and he became decent to above average. By year 6 he was great.

ragee
03-19-2010, 03:12 PM
Ive yet to hear a good argument other than people trying to discredit his chase downs. Its as if the presence of highlight plays is a bad thing. Its like the cliche high steals dont make a good defender, while true its not as if you cant be a great defender who happens to get alot of steals.

I am not saying he has no d... He is a GOOD defender... Just not as good as many are saying in my opinion... Since you brought up the steals, I want to ask you this... Do you think AI was a great defender?

Atticus Finch
03-19-2010, 03:17 PM
HAHAHAHHAHA, It actually involves a lot of skill to predict where the player is gonna go and getting there before him"... that is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Your right it involves so much skill to stand in front of someone, the only skill it involves is acting.

You've obviously never taken a charge.

tredigs
03-19-2010, 04:22 PM
See what I mean about his chase downs, its all anyone ever says to degrade his D..... then of course a hint of Kobe bias adds to the cred


He was a poor defender up until year 3, a few years under Brown and he became decent to above average. By year 6 he was great.

I'd agree with that ^ -- as far as pure numbers go, the guy has the third highest defensive win shares in the league, sandwiched between Dwight Howard, Gerald Wallace, Andrew Bogut, and Josh Smith/Kevin Durant. It's by no means the be all end all of what it means to be a great defender, but you also rarely get that stat by being less than a very high level defender.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html (Scroll to the bottom to see it).

lakerssssssss
03-19-2010, 07:07 PM
I hope artest wins dpoy but I highly doubt it.

Hawkeye15
03-19-2010, 09:16 PM
I hope artest wins dpoy but I highly doubt it.

there is no way he should
D12 leads the league in defensive rating, and he is a star. Its his award to lose

Raph12
03-19-2010, 10:36 PM
there is no way he should
D12 leads the league in defensive rating, defensive win shares, defensive rpg, bpg and his team is ranked 2nd (0.4 behind Boston) for team defense, and he is a star. Its his award to lose

Ftfy.

Slimsim
03-19-2010, 10:39 PM
Td

Raph12
03-19-2010, 10:53 PM
Td

Td = Tim Duncan?

You mean the guy who was held to 5 pts on 1-10 shooting (career worst performance) by Dwight?

1-800-STFU
03-19-2010, 10:54 PM
Derrick Rose

Reyes6
03-19-2010, 10:58 PM
Dwight Howard


... 10 pages? Is this really a debate?

_KB24_
03-23-2010, 03:46 PM
Dwight Howard


... 10 pages? Is this really a debate?

This
/thread

MagicDojo
03-23-2010, 05:43 PM
This
/thread

No debate. Lebron wins MVP. Howard wins DPOY. for the next 5 years.

jackdawson
03-23-2010, 05:50 PM
Dwight Howard! There shouldn't be any debate about DPOY ala LeBron for MVP.

_KB24_
03-23-2010, 07:34 PM
No debate. Lebron wins MVP. Howard wins DPOY. for the next 5 years.

Don't forget to book the Lakers as Champions for the next 5 years :rolleyes:

RadiantShot
03-24-2010, 09:11 AM
Don't forget to book the Lakers as Champions for the next 5 years :rolleyes:

There's always got to be something extra about Kobe or the Lakers winning a championship in every thread. :sigh:

LTS
03-24-2010, 11:24 PM
Howard

MTar786
03-25-2010, 10:37 AM
dwight will get it because of his status. bt i honestly feel ron deserves it. i guess it would be more clear if ron was a little more consistent and the lakers were a hard house in your face defensive team.. but they arent structured that way even tho they're ranked as a top defensive team. see ron against san antonio last night for example

Raph12
03-25-2010, 01:24 PM
dwight will get it because of his status. bt i honestly feel ron deserves it. i guess it would be more clear if ron was a little more consistent and the lakers were a hard house in your face defensive team.. but they arent structured that way even tho they're ranked as a top defensive team. see ron against san antonio last night for example

Right that's why Dwight would win;

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that he's leading the league in rebounds, blocks, drating, dwinshares and his team is #1 for basket protection and #3 for defensive rating as a team (0.3 behind Charlotte for #1). :rolleyes:

If you watch Orlando play, you'd know that they beat most teams with their defense, hell they almost beat Atlanta last night, while they were only 37% from the floor, they were fighting with their defense and probably would've won it in OT, but J-Smooves putback dunk won it for the Hawks. Orlando has been the best defensive team since December, Dwight turned around a poor early effort (16ppg-11rpg-1.5bpg), when everyone was laughing at my notion for Dwight repeating as DPOY and all thought he wouldn't lead in rebounds and blocks again.

Factor in the fact that Ron's permitted to be physical with guys and Dwight gets called on tick-tacky fouls and Dwight's easily DPOY, while Ron's not that close.

Tim96
03-25-2010, 01:38 PM
yes, dwight howard will become the DPOTY-Award because he has unbelievable stats. without him orlando were not on the third place in the eastern conference!!!

Raph12
03-25-2010, 02:01 PM
^They're in 2nd in the East, 3rd in the league.

Tim96
03-25-2010, 05:23 PM
Oh thanks!

iggypop123
03-25-2010, 06:24 PM
seriously is it howard running away? maybe a mention of gerald wallace? he is doing something that SF never ever do

runforrestrunx9
03-25-2010, 06:29 PM
is this even a discussion? Jose Calderon

NotAnotherYear
03-26-2010, 02:45 PM
Either D Lee or Chris Duhon

_KB24_
03-26-2010, 07:00 PM
There's always got to be something extra about Kobe or the Lakers winning a championship in every thread. :sigh:

No need to feel depressed, I just played along with the guy said. Too bad, it can really happen.

GaSoft16
03-27-2010, 04:07 AM
There's always got to be something extra about Kobe or the Lakers winning a championship in every thread. :sigh:

Don't hate, appreciate.

MagicDojo
03-29-2010, 01:11 PM
This thread still open.....? Dwight wins DYOP and Lebron wins MVP. Rinse repeat for next 5 years.

CowboysKB24
03-29-2010, 04:46 PM
It is Dwight Howard no doubt. He has it all on the court with great physicality and body control but he has also has the stats to go with it...

Leads the league in defensive rebounding and shot blocks.

I see a lot of Ron Artests out there. He is a great defender, but he doesn't have the numbers and isn't as good as Dwight defensively. Dwight controls the paint and affects every player and the entire opposing offense.

Ezekial
03-29-2010, 05:14 PM
Its funny because: If Andy is such a good defender why did the Cavs Bring in Shaq to defend Howard.
And FLOPPING: Is a last resort wussy ***** lame lazy homerific style of defense when you are so overmatched that all you can do is fall down and pray that the officails blow the whistle on your sorry skirt wearing ladybusiness!:cry:
Not to be confused with taking a charge. It takes a man to stand in there and get leveled, we all know the Andy FLop where the slightest bump sends her flying and she flails her arms and snaps her neck back like her neck is a noodle like she got kicked by a Trex. I cannot stand flopping babies. If you get knocked to the ground thats fine, be a man, don't take me to drama camp, this is the NBA.

^^^^ This.

I thought it was funny that the dude defended flopping say it is just like getting a defensive stop.

Dude, flopping is faking that the other player did a charge... That's clean? Let's see, it wasn't really a foul, the other player gets a foul on him, and you get the ball.
To me that seems dirty and shows a little bit of cheating nature by trying to get no calls to calls.

THISISDAYEAR
03-29-2010, 05:37 PM
Super Man

MagicDojo
03-29-2010, 06:21 PM
^^^^ This.

I thought it was funny that the dude defended flopping say it is just like getting a defensive stop.

Dude, flopping is faking that the other player did a charge... That's clean? Let's see, it wasn't really a foul, the other player gets a foul on him, and you get the ball.
To me that seems dirty and shows a little bit of cheating nature by trying to get no calls to calls.

That is the truth man, I cannot stand a guy who flops. It is faking a charge just like you said. I suppose it will be the new defensive stat....rebounds, steals, blocks, and flops. Andy wins Defensive flopper of the year for sure. DFOY Varejao!

Baller1
04-01-2010, 11:12 PM
On Thabo Sefolosha:


It's easy to look at the box score from OKC's win over the Lakers last Friday and see Russell Westbrook had 23 points, Kevin Durant scored 26 and Kobe Bryant just had an off night (11 points, 4-for-11 shooting). What's lost in simple stats, though, is the masterful defensive job Sefolosha did on Bryant to spark the Thunder's blowout. Keep in mind that in the previous three OKC-Laker matchups, Bryant had burned Sefolosha and Co. for 32.3 ppg and put up 40 points on them earlier this season -- and L.A. was 3-0 in those games. It was a nice redemption game for Sefolosha (and his reputation as a defensive stopper) as he kept after the Lakers' star the entire game, staying on the ground as Bryant threw every head fake and batch of footwork he could at Sefolosha. In the end, Bryant had nine turnovers (two shy of his career high) and even he had to admit that Sefolosha was a big reason in his struggles that night. "Thabo [Sefolosha] did a great job on one of the best players in the game," said coach Scott Brooks. "I couldn't ask for a better defensive game. Thabo has changed the culture of our team with his defense. He sets the tone, he's an inspirational player. Not too many people can do what he does."

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/04/01/fiveontherise_week22/index.html

:clap:

Raph12
04-01-2010, 11:27 PM
On Thabo Sefolosha:



http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/04/01/fiveontherise_week22/index.html

:clap:

He's solid no doubt and deserves some recognition, but Dwight is literally untouchable... Should be a unanimous winner IMO.

20 rebounds, 5 blocks, 1 steal, 0 fouls and umpteen amount of altered shots tonight, holding one of the league's top offenses to 82pts on 38.3FG%... Not to mention 17pts-1ast on 6-11FG and 5-8FT.

*Superman*
04-01-2010, 11:44 PM
Better be Dwight or ill **** bricks.

Iceman778
04-02-2010, 03:12 PM
other man is also doing this...............

blah-blah
04-02-2010, 03:19 PM
Dwight Howard.

RocketsRule
04-02-2010, 03:23 PM
Dwight Howard is the undoubted leader, blocking shots and taking an otherwise sup-par defensive team to an elite defensive status.

Ron Artest, Gerald Wallace, and Shawn Marion are all contenders as well, but come no where close to Dwight's defensive status.

tredigs
04-02-2010, 03:41 PM
Dwight Howard is the undoubted leader, blocking shots and taking an otherwise sup-par defensive team to an elite defensive status.

Ron Artest, Gerald Wallace, and Shawn Marion are all contenders as well, but come no where close to Dwight's defensive status.

haha WHAAAAAAAAAAT? Please explain that one. I don't think Marion's ever even made an all defensive second team in his life, and is probably worse now than he's ever been man. Maybe you meant Bogut? Or Josh Smith? Even a lockdown defender like Sefalosha or Artest? ... Marion, really?

RadiantShot
04-04-2010, 01:14 AM
How about Dwight wins, and we close this thread. Kbai.

spoonhoops
04-04-2010, 01:17 AM
Gerald Wallace has been fantastic this year, but based on how the NBA works, Dwight Howard will get it.

silvTeg98
04-04-2010, 04:43 AM
artest or dwight

jackdawson
04-04-2010, 05:00 AM
haha WHAAAAAAAAAAT? Please explain that one. I don't think Marion's ever even made an all defensive second team in his life, and is probably worse now than he's ever been man. Maybe you meant Bogut? Or Josh Smith? Even a lockdown defender like Sefalosha or Artest? ... Marion, really?

Dude, are you serious??? I haven't watched him much this year. Marion might not be the same now, but he has been an elite lockdown defender for years, one of the bests for sure.

RaptorsDoItBest
04-04-2010, 05:04 AM
haha WHAAAAAAAAAAT? Please explain that one. I don't think Marion's ever even made an all defensive second team in his life, and is probably worse now than he's ever been man. Maybe you meant Bogut? Or Josh Smith? Even a lockdown defender like Sefalosha or Artest? ... Marion, really?

I really don't understand why you had to blow up like that? Shawn Marion is a great defender, rebounder, he can steal from time to time, and can block a shot or two a game. But yeah... Howard hands down, lets go home.

jackdawson
04-04-2010, 05:06 AM
Two things are pretty much locked for years to come:

1. Dwight Howard=DPOY.
2. LeBron James=MVP. ( "I just think probably until he's at least 35, it'll be LeBron winning the award every year," Stan Van Gundy said. "I just do. I just think that's the way it's going to be. He's the guy. He sort of has to go into every season now and lose the award." http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-ira-nba-column-s040410,0,33486.column?page=2)

tredigs
04-04-2010, 06:20 AM
Dude, are you serious??? I haven't watched him much this year. Marion might not be the same now, but he has been an elite lockdown defender for years, one of the bests for sure.

Marion used to be an elite lock down defender. But honestly, he was never the best. And this isn't 2003 friends. He doesn't belong in a Defensive Player of the Year thread. Let's stay on topic..

*Superman*
04-04-2010, 01:26 PM
artest or dwight

Artest has been...not good this whole year. No way he wins.

jackdawson
04-05-2010, 04:07 AM
Marion used to be an elite lock down defender. But honestly, he was never the best. And this isn't 2003 friends. He doesn't belong in a Defensive Player of the Year thread. Let's stay on topic..

That first bolded part made me laugh. I never said he should win it this year because as I said I didn't watch him this year, but untill last year, he was an elite defender. So I don't know what you meant by it's not 2003. He has been highly underrated as a defender but he's been elite for years.
For the second bolded part, someone can say no one should be mentioned in this thread except Dwight Howard...well may be Gerald Wallace as well, but that's about it.

RadiantShot
04-05-2010, 09:41 AM
Jameer Nelson.
;)

MagicDojo
04-06-2010, 04:11 PM
Jameer Nelson.
;)

For SPOM - shortest player on the Magic.

PlasterdBastard
04-06-2010, 04:37 PM
i cant believe there is even a discussion gonna be the first person to lead the league in rebounds and blocks in consecutive seasons, Dwight has got this locked up, and i would gladly take the field that lebron wont win the next five MVPS, and the lakers wont win the next 5 titles

Iceman778
04-08-2010, 03:03 PM
Jared Jeffries. XD


what id that????

MagicDojo
04-08-2010, 03:27 PM
what id that????

It has to be a joke.

Avenged
04-08-2010, 04:23 PM
i cant believe there is even a discussion gonna be the first person to lead the league in rebounds and blocks in consecutive seasons, Dwight has got this locked up, and i would gladly take the field that lebron wont win the next five MVPS, and the lakers wont win the next 5 titles

You're a smart guy. How boring would it be if every year for the next 5 years, the NBA had the same ending? I wouldn't mind a 5 peat though. :D

Avenged
04-08-2010, 05:01 PM
Artest has been...not good this whole year. No way he wins.

Artest has showed up in big games and locked down some players. But yeah, Artest isn't going to win this and doesn't deserve to over Dwight.

d-baller23
04-08-2010, 05:36 PM
Dwight Howard will win DPOY every year if he doesn't get MVP, that's how the NBA is which is not fair. D12 should be talked about when people are talking about MVP. But two time DPOY isn't anything to Dwight if he doesn't win a ring he says. and Ron Ron can't even guard Manu Ginobuli so why does he deserve it?

bigsams50
04-08-2010, 06:40 PM
D12
Crash
Artest

Avenged
04-08-2010, 09:22 PM
Dwight Howard will win DPOY every year if he doesn't get MVP, that's how the NBA is which is not fair. D12 should be talked about when people are talking about MVP. But two time DPOY isn't anything to Dwight if he doesn't win a ring he says. and Ron Ron can't even guard Manu Ginobuli so why does he deserve it?

Im not saying Ron deserves it, but what do you mean "cant even guard Manu"? Manu is a fantastic player and is giving everybody's team defense a hard time.

Iceman778
04-09-2010, 11:42 AM
yes exactly he is the best

mcflash03
04-12-2010, 10:42 PM
Dwight Howard, but Josh Smith is right there, maybe next year

Raph12
04-12-2010, 10:50 PM
This still open?

d-baller23
04-13-2010, 03:09 PM
Im not saying Ron deserves it, but what do you mean "cant even guard Manu"? Manu is a fantastic player and is giving everybody's team defense a hard time.

I'm not sayin Manu is a bad player, but he is quicker than Ron Artest, Artest should be guarding bigger forwards instead of fast guards, in general I think the Lakers should've kept Trevor Ariza, then they would've been a better team. Dwight will be DPOY and he will win his first ring this year.

bigsams50
04-13-2010, 07:12 PM
This still open?

People wanna get their posts up ;)

Raph12
04-14-2010, 11:48 PM
As if this wasn't already a unanimous decision, here's some more about the reigning DPOY for you to chew on: http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/john_schuhmann/04/14/defensive.player/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1


Stats don't tell Howard's true value as NBA's best defender

For the second straight season, Dwight Howard leads the league in rebounds and blocked shots. And that may be all you need to know in determining that Howard should win his second straight Kia Defensive Player of the Year award. But Howard's value on defense goes well beyond boards and blocks.

When he's playing, Howard's blocks account for less than 5 percent of the shots the Magic's opponents take. Of the shots that opponents don't get blocked while Howard is on the floor, he rebounds 29 percent of the misses, a hefty percentage. That means that 71 percent of those rebounds go to someone else. So on a vast majority of defensive possessions, Howard's hands don't even touch the ball.

Still, Howard is NBA.com's choice for Defensive Player of the Year for exactly that reason -- what he provides the Magic when he's not blocking a shot or grabbing a rebound.

Orlando is the best defensive team in the league, allowing 100 points per 100 possessions. They have a defensive-minded coach, but other than Howard, the other four starters don't have great defensive reputations.

Matt Barnes is probably the best defender of the group, but he played his last three seasons with the defensively deficient Suns and Warriors. Rashard Lewis was part of a lot of bad defensive teams in Seattle before he came to Orlando. Vince Carter's Nets were a very good defensive team in 2005-06, but got worse every year after that and ranked 23rd defensively last season. And Jameer Nelson has been burned by plenty of point guards around the league.

Hedo Turkoglu was one of those other four defenders last season, when the Magic were the best defensive team in the league as well. This season, Turkoglu is a starter on the worst defensive team in the league.

Simply put, Howard's presence makes his teammates better defenders. They can be aggressive on the perimeter because they have Howard behind them. It's no surprise that the Magic allow the fewest paint points in the league (just 38.3 per 100 possessions).

Indirectly, Howard also defends the 3-point line. His teammates can run their man off the line, knowing that he's not getting all the way to the rim. Last season, the Magic ranked second by allowing their opponents to shoot 34 percent from 3-point range. This year, their 3-point defense has fallen off and they rank 23rd, but because they run their opponents off the line, they're still in the top half of the league in threes allowed per possession. And they still force their opponents to score just 24 percent of their points from mid-range, the highest rate in the league.

There's a caveat when calling Howard the best defensive player in the league, because his job is much different than the NBA's elite perimeter defenders. Staying in front of Kobe Bryant and getting a hand in his face when he rises for a jumper requires more work than it does to help out and challenge him at the rim.

But no matter how good Shane Battier or Luc Mbah a Moute may be on the perimeter, they can't make the same impact that Howard does in the paint. Battier may be the Rockets' best defender, but Yao Ming is still their most important defender. There's no arguing that Yao's absence is the biggest reason that the Rockets went from being a top-five defense last season to being a below average defense this one.

Size matters and Howard's biggest tools defensively are his natural gifts: his height, width and athleticism. Still, there are plenty of big, athletic guys in the NBA who aren't nearly as good defensively as Howard.

It takes more than natural gifts to become the most important defensive presence in the league. It takes intelligence and experience to be in the right position to help out teammates and to make the most of the 2.9 seconds in the lane. It takes the right balance of aggressiveness and discipline to block and alter shots without getting into foul trouble or losing position on rebounds. And it always takes energy and focus to be the best defensive player over the course of 82 games.

Is Howard all the way there yet? Probably not. At 24, he can still get better defensively.

And that's a scary thought, because right now, he's already the best.

And the 2010 DPOY is...

HoopsDrive
04-15-2010, 12:22 AM
1. Dwight Howard
2. Gerald Wallace
3. Josh Smith
4. Anderson Varejao
5. Ron Artest

JordansBulls
04-15-2010, 01:26 AM
Time to unstick this.