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View Full Version : Rebounding as a stat is overrated



kswissdaf
02-27-2010, 11:54 PM
Rebounding for a team is very important, and I believe that you cant allow offense rebounds,but when I hear wow this guy just had 20 rebounds, well duh if he is just camping down in the lane of course he is going to get bounds. I respect a player when i see him boxing out but if you watch a game Lets say Dwight Howard (not calling him out) gets 10 rebs 7 or 8 will just be a missed shot that goes his way and nobody is trying to get the rebound besides him. I just hate when i hear someone say "he averages 10 rebounds a game he must be a great rebounder." Point that im making is that the rebounding stat doesnt mean **** because Boxing out> Actual player who gets the rebound

JNA17
02-27-2010, 11:56 PM
ummmmm...noo....

Statik1
02-27-2010, 11:57 PM
Your thought process is overrated

kswissdaf
02-27-2010, 11:58 PM
ummmmm...noo....

Can you explain cause i honestly want to know why

unwantedplayer
02-28-2010, 12:04 AM
i rarely use the facepalm and so far i have used it twice today

:facepalm:

now three times

leftymo
02-28-2010, 12:14 AM
I don't think the stat is over-rated, but I do think the stat is used to over-rate some players. I mean bigs on every team are going to grab rebounds by default. For example, Biedrins grabbed 11 boards/game... which means he's a good player... but he's probably not as good as his rebounding numbers indicate. He's on a relatively small team.

MaHaRaJaH
02-28-2010, 12:42 AM
I think understand where he's coming from. Players like David Lee whose averaging 2.7 Offensive rebounds will getting 8.9 Defensive ones. Now, you can kind of say majority of the 8.9 are there by default form missed shots.

jrice9
02-28-2010, 12:52 AM
Well I think over the long run the great rebounders show up in statistics. Its not like Dwight is calling off his teammates so he ups his rebounding.


However, great dfensive teams and higher pace teams both lead to more inflated rebounding totals than other teams

29$JerZ
02-28-2010, 12:52 AM
Every stat is important and overrated.

lovingTO
02-28-2010, 12:54 AM
While I kind of agree with what you're saying, the same arguement can be made about any stat. Just because you get an assist on a play doesn't mean you're a good facilitator. High Point Avg's dont mean you're a great scorer, blocks don't mean you a good defender. Stats can be deceiving and shouldn't be used alone to make a case for a players worth.

nuggetsyankees
02-28-2010, 01:00 AM
i think TEAM rebounds are more important but individual rebounds still matter somewhat

Sadds The Gr8
02-28-2010, 01:03 AM
While I kind of agree with what you're saying, the same arguement can be made about any stat. Just because you get an assist on a play doesn't mean you're a good facilitator. High Point Avg's dont mean you're a great scorer, blocks don't mean you a good defender. Stats can be deceiving and shouldn't be used alone to make a case for a players worth.

This.

Raph12
02-28-2010, 01:07 AM
I wouldn't say it's overrated, because you hardly have people pay attention to it, but yeah it's flawed... As is every other stat in one way or another.

GOON MUSIC
02-28-2010, 01:08 AM
of course when zbo gets 25 boards

rebounding becomes an overrated statistic

rapjuicer06
02-28-2010, 01:15 AM
I think understand where he's coming from. Players like David Lee whose averaging 2.7 Offensive rebounds will getting 8.9 Defensive ones. Now, you can kind of say majority of the 8.9 are there by default form missed shots.

arent all rebounds from missed shots? wtf are you talking about?

Paulliwali
02-28-2010, 01:24 AM
stats are like bikini, they show a lot but don't show everything


forgot where is that from..

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 01:35 AM
I like your thinking. I agree. But what stat isn't overrated in the league nowadays?

kozelkid
02-28-2010, 01:48 AM
As a raw stat, it's overrated. Reb% isn't though.

Meth
02-28-2010, 04:49 AM
Stats can be overrated.

Ex: OMG LEBRON SCORED 27 POINTS, DISHED 2 ASSISTS, AND GRABBED 3 BOARDS YESTERDAY IN A WIN

..so?

ldc62
02-28-2010, 04:57 AM
The stat (guess its more metric) that is most overrated for me is the per 48 minute thing. Like do people really care how well this player can play in 48 minutes, even if hes playing limited minutes? But most stats are overrated compared to Ws and Ls.

Sly Guy
02-28-2010, 04:59 AM
Rebounding for a team is very important, and I believe that you cant allow offense rebounds,but when I hear wow this guy just had 20 rebounds, well duh if he is just camping down in the lane of course he is going to get bounds. I respect a player when i see him boxing out but if you watch a game Lets say Dwight Howard (not calling him out) gets 10 rebs 7 or 8 will just be a missed shot that goes his way and nobody is trying to get the rebound besides him. I just hate when i hear someone say "he averages 10 rebounds a game he must be a great rebounder." Point that im making is that the rebounding stat doesnt mean **** because Boxing out> Actual player who gets the rebound

Think of it as possessions. You get yourself 20 rebounds, barring turnovers, that's 20 extra shots. 20 extra shots can offset some bad FG%'s and win you games. Rebounds are the second most important stat next to points.

MaHaRaJaH
02-28-2010, 07:48 AM
arent all rebounds from missed shots? wtf are you talking about?

From the Defensive end yes, but from the offensive end I classed that different since you have a Less chance of actually getting it as the opposition. But on the Defensive side, you get rebounds by default from really crappy shots anyway.

dominater6192
02-28-2010, 08:29 AM
You must be an Andrea Bargnani fan if you think rebounds are overrated

SlaterRaps
02-28-2010, 09:33 AM
While I kind of agree with what you're saying, the same arguement can be made about any stat. Just because you get an assist on a play doesn't mean you're a good facilitator. High Point Avg's dont mean you're a great scorer, blocks don't mean you a good defender. Stats can be deceiving and shouldn't be used alone to make a case for a players worth.

agreed

$ NyC $
02-28-2010, 10:09 AM
Although i agree that it could be said for all stats, i definitely understand what you mean and where your coming from. A great rebounder will get you 11 rpg while making sure he boxes out so the opposing teams don't get rebounds. Some players will just stand or try to get a weakside rebound without boxing out. If you grab 12 rpg and your opponent gets 15 it kinda shows that your not really doing your job correctly. A good rebounder will get 12 and make sure his opponent doesn't get as much.

BALLER71
02-28-2010, 10:09 AM
Rebounds and assists aren't good ways to measure if someone is a good rebounder or passer.

KnicksorBust
02-28-2010, 10:22 AM
stats are like bikini, they show a lot but don't show everything


forgot where is that from..

Close. It used to be one of my favorites. "Stats are like bikinis, they are nice to look at, but don't tell you the whole story." -Brent Barry.

Ray_R
02-28-2010, 10:44 AM
Rebounds and assists aren't good ways to measure if someone is a good rebounder or passer.

You Hit it right in the Nail.:clap:

skyhibballpj87
02-28-2010, 10:52 AM
Rebounding for a team is very important, and I believe that you cant allow offense rebounds,but when I hear wow this guy just had 20 rebounds, well duh if he is just camping down in the lane of course he is going to get bounds. I respect a player when i see him boxing out but if you watch a game Lets say Dwight Howard (not calling him out) gets 10 rebs 7 or 8 will just be a missed shot that goes his way and nobody is trying to get the rebound besides him. I just hate when i hear someone say "he averages 10 rebounds a game he must be a great rebounder." Point that im making is that the rebounding stat doesnt mean **** because Boxing out> Actual player who gets the rebound

I can see where your coming from to a point but i have o disagree that the guys just camp in the lane. There are many great rebounder's now that are undersized. David lee, Carlos boozer, rondo, lebron,kidd, jaminson all these guys can grab boards and their not the biggest guys on the court. And howards the only guy that rebounds for his team so thats what makes him amazing he grabs the boards even when theirs 3 or 4 of the other teams players under the hoop. And not to mention the fact that dwight also averages 3.5 offensive rebounds a game proves that hes a good rebounder because anyone can get defensive rebounds offensive rebounds shows a great rebounder.
Rebounding maybe overrated to some people like Yao,Biedrins, or someone whos over 7 feet automatcally they should grab 7 or 8 just based on height. Other then that its not Rebounding itself thats overrated it depends on the player getting the boards. 10 bounds from rondo or kidd is much more impressive then 10 boards from Yao.

drobe86
02-28-2010, 12:10 PM
This is a dumb thread because the team that wins the rebounding battle usually wins the game. So how exactly is rebounding overrated again?

bagwell368
02-28-2010, 12:50 PM
Rebounding for a team is very important, and I believe that you cant allow offense rebounds,but when I hear wow this guy just had 20 rebounds, well duh if he is just camping down in the lane of course he is going to get bounds. I respect a player when i see him boxing out but if you watch a game Lets say Dwight Howard (not calling him out) gets 10 rebs 7 or 8 will just be a missed shot that goes his way and nobody is trying to get the rebound besides him. I just hate when i hear someone say "he averages 10 rebounds a game he must be a great rebounder." Point that im making is that the rebounding stat doesnt mean **** because Boxing out> Actual player who gets the rebound

That's just defensive rebounds, and you can block out perfectly and have a deep bounce go right to the guy you just boxed out.

Offensive and Defensive rebound percentage does however tell a great deal.

You want a new "boxed out, had good position stat" added? Great, it will help, but no way the traditional rebound numbers go anywhere.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-28-2010, 01:00 PM
Lol @ Camper.

Reminds me of COD:MW2.

MaHaRaJaH
02-28-2010, 03:47 PM
This is a dumb thread because the team that wins the rebounding battle usually wins the game. So how exactly is rebounding overrated again?

Team rebounds yes, but This is for the individual player.

MrFastBreak
02-28-2010, 03:53 PM
Thats why they created the advanced stat Rb%. It lets you know the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Marcus Camby is leading the league in Rb%

Paulliwali
02-28-2010, 04:00 PM
Close. It used to be one of my favorites. "Stats are like bikinis, they are nice to look at, but don't tell you the whole story." -Brent Barry.

lol it makes sense

sargon21
02-28-2010, 04:02 PM
i think PGs rebounding is overrated

Chronz
03-01-2010, 04:46 AM
A stat can only be overrated if you show us how your measuring them. But overall defensive rebounds arent as important as other stats, offensive rebounding is much more valueable for example, because odds are, if your not getting the defensive board, your teammate will.


The stat (guess its more metric) that is most overrated for me is the per 48 minute thing. Like do people really care how well this player can play in 48 minutes, even if hes playing limited minutes? But most stats are overrated compared to Ws and Ls.
Yes, well if those people are GM's. And its not how they apply those stats the stats. Its not like they are literally expecting a player to play the full 48. Think in terms of rates

Aust
03-01-2010, 04:51 AM
I dislike the guys who try to get boards just to beef up their stats. I do, however, respect those like Lamar Odom who work hard and has a knack around the rim. Some of our W's are thanks to him and his 15+, 20+ board games

Jaji
03-01-2010, 07:37 AM
So lemme get this straight, the opposing team misses a shot, and out of 10 guys on the court, only Dwight Howard is trying to get the rebound? :laugh: (I wanted to give you the :facepalm: but I couldn't contain my laughter)

Jaji
03-01-2010, 07:38 AM
Assists are overrated too. I mean after all, it's the other guy who is actually scoring. As a matter of fact, scoring is overrated... it's the ball that's going in the basket. :rolleyes:

MacFitz92
03-01-2010, 09:19 AM
:facepalm:

JasonJohnHorn
03-01-2010, 09:37 AM
I remember the first time I heard Barkely say that "steals" as a stat were overrated in determining a players defensive abilities. I thought about it for a minute and agreed. I know lots of guys who get high steals and weren't great defenders. Some guys who take gambles to get steals (like Iverson as I believe Barkely pointed out), and I think Doug Christie used to do that, and some guys who guard the passing lanes well but aren't solid one-on-one defenders (like Bird and Stockton).

So when i saw this threat pop up i thought: hmm... I wonder. Then I read it and now I'm pretty sure I feel exactly as I did before about rebounds. Yes, some boards fall your way, but guys don't "camp" under the boards, front court players are SUPPOSED to be under the boards on defence, they are defending the offensive low-post scorers and and then boxing them out when the shot goes up. There are guys out there whose rebounder numbers arent amazing who are good rebounders, but I can't think of anybody who has great rebounding numbers who aren't great rebounders. There are guys who aren't athletic, like Bonner, who box out and often times teammates might pick up the board while they are keeping guys off the board, but as for guys who get lucky bounces? A guy might get a few lucky bounces one night, but that will not happen every night for an entire season, let along an entire career. lucky bounces go one way one night, and the other way the next, and it averages out. Like I said, there are some guys who are good "team" rebounders, guys who box out and help keep the board clear while more athletic guys gouble up the rebounds, but guys that get the high averages do so because they bust their @$$e$ off.

Any seriously, they aren't "camping" out, they are just doing what they are supposed to. That is the job of agreat rebounder.

Hawkeye15
03-01-2010, 11:33 AM
rebound rate is far more important, but any way you cut it, rebounding is actually one of the more important stats that win games.

Hawkeye15
03-01-2010, 11:35 AM
assists are dictated by someone. Rebounds are not. Rebounds are clear cut, so they cant be manipulated or changed. I still think rebound rate is the most important. Someone who averages 8 rpg for a slow paced team is the same thing as someone getting 11 rpg for GS for example. But if you grab over 20% of all available rebounds while on the court, you are helping your team, period

Hawkeye15
03-01-2010, 11:38 AM
Rodman has talked about his rebounding. He watched hours of tape on all kinds of shooters to see what arc they shot with, where the heavy percentage of their misses go to, etc, etc. Rebounding is an artform. Its understanding angles, trajectory, and many other factors besides just "blocking out", which most players dont do anyways, EXCEPT the great rebounders. Rebounding is not fun. Yes, there are freaks like Dwight who make it look easy, but there are players like Love, or Gerald Wallace, and more, who do it off effort, and studying their opponents, and putting themselves in the proper position the second the shot goes up. Rebounding is tough work. Not many are capable of being an elite rebounder. It is a skill that every championship team needs

JKiddFan4Life
03-01-2010, 11:54 AM
i think PGs rebounding is overrated
I don't know if I'd call PG rebounding overrated. PG's are typically smaller than everyone else on the court, which equates to them having to either work twice as hard to outrebound the 9 other guys on the court, or just being smarter and understanding where your missed shots will end up. Either way, I'd much rather see a PG actually grab a rebound rather than see a 7 footer bat the ball around like a tetherball.

nanablvd
03-01-2010, 11:58 AM
I would say stats are deceiving. Stats can become overrated only when pple buy into the numbers too much. That's how we never call Amare a good rebounder even though he averages close to 9 reb/game and even 11 reb/game in his run and gun Phx days. That's how Lebron (being arguably the best player in the league) gets triple double threats all the time because he is the system. That's how Jason Kidd often gets >10 reb cuz half of those come from his big guys boxing out the lane for him. Not everyone is a serious game watcher who tries to understand the playbook or what actually happens on the court, so that's ok.

MagicDojo
03-01-2010, 01:36 PM
I dont think you know much about basketball. Every defensive rebound off a miss eliminates another shot attempt. so if a player gets 14 a game that is 14 missed shots that he guaranteed would not turn into a 2nd chance points. Huge stat. This means you prevented a potential 28 points or more if you factor in 3's. So a player that has 20 points for his team and prevents 28 potential points has a greater impact on the game than a player that scores 30 points and gets 5 rebounds. Stats reflect a players impact on the game in a countable way.
And camping under the rim has absolutly nothing to do with getting the rebound. 90% of the rebounds that Howard gets off a missed shot are in traffic with several other big athletic guys all trying to come up with the ball. If he is the one that comes up with it more often than the others then he is a better (not luckier lol) rebounder than them.:facepalm:.

SteveNash
03-01-2010, 05:39 PM
TC is absolutely right.

CowboysKB24
03-01-2010, 06:08 PM
Rebounding is important. In the NBA players don't try for offensive rebounds unless the ball is comes there way or it is the end of the game. If you haven't noticed... watch a foul shot early in the game, offensive players don't even attempt to get it. Or if your a guy trying to get more time or just a hustle player. It is very important though.

Kakaroach
03-01-2010, 06:38 PM
Rebounds are very important. Usually teams that have the most second chance points win. No to mention keeping another team's second chance points down.

SteveNash
03-01-2010, 07:56 PM
Rebounds are very important. Usually teams that have the most second chance points win. No to mention keeping another team's second chance points down.

Good job reading the first post.

sargon21
03-01-2010, 08:29 PM
I don't know if I'd call PG rebounding overrated. PG's are typically smaller than everyone else on the court, which equates to them having to either work twice as hard to outrebound the 9 other guys on the court, or just being smarter and understanding where your missed shots will end up. Either way, I'd much rather see a PG actually grab a rebound rather than see a 7 footer bat the ball around like a tetherball.

well, i dont think you can equate a PG's rebounding with his actual skill as a rebounder, b/c a lot of it depends on who the PG's big men are, and if they're likely to get rebounds, like just one comparison that comes to mind is rose v westbrook, rose doesnt get many rebounds, which i think mainly stem from the fact that the bulls are a great rebounding team, however with westbrook, his frontcourt sucks at rebounding, and therefore he is somewhat required to get some more rebounds, so I think for PGs especially a lot of it depends on the team, you agree??

JasonJohnHorn
03-01-2010, 10:32 PM
I don't know if I'd call PG rebounding overrated. PG's are typically smaller than everyone else on the court, which equates to them having to either work twice as hard to outrebound the 9 other guys on the court, or just being smarter and understanding where your missed shots will end up. Either way, I'd much rather see a PG actually grab a rebound rather than see a 7 footer bat the ball around like a tetherball.

I think for the most part PG rebounding is a matter of hustle and following the shots. When a point guard (or a shooting guard for that matter) picks up a board, its usually because it bounced out far and its a matter who is willing to chase the loose ball and who is actually paying attention. Shots that bounce back high are usually the best opprotunities for offensive boards, but a lot of shooters don't follow up on their shot. Jason Kidd pays attention when people are shooting and chases down balls, the guy is pure hustle. I don't see him "box out" a lot, I see him chase down balls and out-hustle people and pay attention to what is going on on the court.

PG rebounding is more about hustle and court awareness than it is about "boxing out". But all three aspects are apart of rebounding. Those high arcing bounces are the ones that front court players are unlikely to get because they just go to far out, and that leaves it up to the back court players, the ones who get them usually have more court awareness and hustle.