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View Full Version : Are the Denver Nuggets the Darkhorse to win it???



shep33
02-27-2010, 07:33 PM
This team is heavily underrated. They play up and down to opponents but man i think they're averaging 126 a game over their past 6. They can score at all positions, super athletic, and if they hold a team to under 100 they're pretty much unstoppable. The only knock on them is that I still don't think they can beat the Lakers in a 7 game series. Really the only team standing between them and the title IMO is LA, who plays them tough in the playoffs. But other than them, the Nuggets IMO match up very well against Cleveland, Orlando, Boston etc. I just think they can outscore anyone they play. Can these guys win it all IF they get past the Lakers?

In my opinion Nuggets vs. Mavs, or Nuggets vs. Lakers is gonna be epic this postseason.

acehole
02-27-2010, 08:31 PM
Kobe gets bodied like Melo like hes a little kid.

ko8e24
02-27-2010, 08:47 PM
They're not mentally tough enough I don't think. Tomorrow's game should be interesting on ABC

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 08:51 PM
They are going to have a lot of trouble with the Maverick's improvement at the 5. If you remember, Erica was their starting 5 and is good in the paint on defense, but was so incredibly slow. Haywood is incredibly more agile and mobile, I think Dallas has the defensive players (Kidd/Butler/Marion/Stevenson) to guard Melo and Nowitzki/Haywood is a huge improvement against Martin and Nene.

They haven't played with this new line-up the Mavericks have, but I think the Mavericks will have the edge. Can't wait to see what happens. :)

Assuming they get past the Mavs, I still think they lose to the Lakers. Melo barely got out of the 1st round last season, it's not enough evidence to prove to me that they have what it takes to get to the finals, much less, win it all.

shep33
02-27-2010, 08:52 PM
As a Laker fan I think this is the only team that could knock out LA in the West. That being said, Lakers always play well against them in the playoffs, and i can just about guarantee they'll be a bunch of techs, and skirmishes throughout the series. However, if Denver made the finals do you guys think they could beat Cleveland, cause i think they matchup very well against them.

shep33
02-27-2010, 08:54 PM
They are going to have a lot of trouble with the Maverick's improvement at the 5. If you remember, Erica was their starting 5 and is good in the paint on defense, but was so incredibly slow. Haywood is incredibly more agile and mobile, I think Dallas has the defensive players (Kidd/Butler/Marion/Stevenson) to guard Melo and Nowitzki/Haywood is a huge improvement against Martin and Nene.

They haven't played with this new line-up the Mavericks have, but I think the Mavericks will have the edge. Can't wait to see what happens. :)

Assuming they get past the Mavs, I still think they lose to the Lakers. Melo barely got out of the 1st round last season, it's not enough evidence to prove to me that they have what it takes to get to the finals, much less, win it all.


man I truly believe the Mavs vs Nuggets will be the best series of the playoffs if it happens. Nuggets Lakers would also be great, can't wait till the WC playoffs. In the east i think we all know it'll be between Orlando and cleveland.

td0tsfinest
02-27-2010, 08:56 PM
To me the west consists of 3 teams right now, Lakers, Dallas and Nuggets. The spurs are my dark horse.

fadedmario
02-27-2010, 08:57 PM
I've been saying all year the Nuggets are for real. I guess we'll see come playoff time. I guarantee NO one wants to play them in the playoffs. The Lakers and the Cavs are the favorites, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Nuggets beat the Cavs. It's the Lakers who will be the biggest challenge. I predict a Western team will win the Championship this year. Lakers, Nuggets, and the Mavericks I feel would all beat Cleveland. Also don't be surprised if the Hawks give Cleveland some trouble in the east. I think the Nuggets have a better shot than people think. I'm a Detroit fan and I'm telling the truth. Chauncey Billups is a winner and very underrated. While LA and Cleveland are the clear favorites, don't be surprised if the Nuggets upset both of them.

dtmagnet
02-27-2010, 09:00 PM
I like the Mavericks over the Nuggets.

jimbobjarree
02-27-2010, 09:00 PM
for sure, nobody expects them too but they can roll with the Lakers and are a top team, fits the criteria of being a dark horse.

Sox Appeal
02-27-2010, 09:02 PM
They're not mentally tough enough I don't think. Tomorrow's game should be interesting on ABC

Based off what? Maybe last year that was the case, but this year they're a totally different team. As of right now, Denver is my pick to win the West.

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 09:05 PM
man I truly believe the Mavs vs Nuggets will be the best series of the playoffs if it happens. Nuggets Lakers would also be great, can't wait till the WC playoffs. In the east i think we all know it'll be between Orlando and cleveland.

No doubt. I would love to play the Nuggets. It would be (for me) more epic to beat the Nuggets than the Lakers. I just think the Mavericks match up well against the Lakers and while I believe we will match up well with our new roster to the Nuggets, it has yet been put to the test.

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 09:07 PM
Based off what? Maybe last year that was the case, but this year they're a totally different team. As of right now, Denver is my pick to win the West.

I think R.J. plays a huge role. If he brings it, Nuggets will be tough to beat. But he is so incredibly inconsistent. He's a bit of a basket-case.

cmellofan15
02-27-2010, 09:09 PM
I think us or the Jazz will be a threat come playoff time.

BkOriginalOne
02-27-2010, 09:14 PM
They play really well against better teams. But they need another big, because Kmart cant stay healthy.

shep33
02-27-2010, 09:30 PM
I think us or the Jazz will be a threat come playoff time.

i thought the Jazz made a huge huge mistake by getting rid of Brewer. I thought he played awesome D, and really got easy transition baskets for the Jazz. He also plays great D on Kobe, even though Kobe still hits ridiculous shots that are basically perfectly defended.

jlee3936
02-27-2010, 09:34 PM
oh geez a mavs-nuggets series would be amazing. the matchups..

kidd-billups
butler/terry-afflalo/smith
marion-martin
dirk-melo (i know they wouldnt be guarding each other, more like marion on melo and dirk on k-mart)
haywood/damp-nene/anderson

and beaubois/barea vs ty lawson (beaubois' block on farmar the other night was ridiculous)

god i cant wait for the playoffs

KALI4ORNIA
02-27-2010, 09:52 PM
Dallas will be tough as well as the Lake Show but i think if J.R. can get hot in the playoffs its a wrap this year. Cav's may be a 7 game series but ill take Melo over Lebron in the last min of the game but i know that can go both ways easily if Lebron wants to really take over and not shoot jumpers. And yes they are the dork horse just because everyone thinks since they're basically the same team as last year and didnt make any moves to get a big that they wont beat the lakers or Mav's. It wont be easy but they'll get it done!

Chacarron
02-27-2010, 09:57 PM
Dallas will be tough as well as the Lake Show but i think if J.R. can get hot in the playoffs its a wrap this year. Cav's may be a 7 game series but ill take Melo over Lebron in the last min of the game but i know that can go both ways easily if Lebron wants to really take over and not shoot jumpers. And yes they are the dork horse just because everyone thinks since they're basically the same team as last year and didnt make any moves to get a big that they wont beat the lakers or Mav's. It wont be easy but they'll get it done!

If the Finals is Cleveland versus Nuggets, the Cavs will almost certainly win it. Lebron is as clutch as it gets. I know Melo is too, but Lebron has already carried a worse team to the Finals. I still think the Lakers are favorite but saying the Nuggets are the dark horse to win it is insane. If anything, the Celtics are since nobody is giving them a chance anymore.

fadedmario
02-27-2010, 10:01 PM
If the Finals is Cleveland versus Nuggets, the Cavs will almost certainly win it. Lebron is as clutch as it gets. I know Melo is too, but Lebron has already carried a worse team to the Finals. I still think the Lakers are favorite but saying the Nuggets are the dark horse to win it is insane. If anything, the Celtics are since nobody is giving them a chance anymore.

I disagree.

If there is a darkhorse player it's Chauncey Billups

KALI4ORNIA
02-27-2010, 10:07 PM
If the Finals is Cleveland versus Nuggets, the Cavs will almost certainly win it. Lebron is as clutch as it gets. I know Melo is too, but Lebron has already carried a worse team to the Finals. I still think the Lakers are favorite but saying the Nuggets are the dark horse to win it is insane. If anything, the Celtics are since nobody is giving them a chance anymore.

Doubtful! I think a dark horse is a team that people know could possibly win it but wouldnt bet on it. I doubt anybody is going to bet that the Celtics will win anything this year. Lebron can almost beat them by himself and they are just flat old. Lebron is clutch when he is driving to the basket under control. Not so much shooting jumpers or 3's.....Hence the last Denver and Cavs game. Its not the playoffs but he should have wanted that game more than to jack up like 4 3's in the last minute. Chuch!

KALI4ORNIA
02-27-2010, 10:09 PM
Let Karl be out in a playoff or finals game and see if Chauncey doesnt drop 40 and 10! I'd bet on that one! Regardless the opponent.

fadedmario
02-27-2010, 10:09 PM
The Nuggets and Mavericks in my opinion are both teams that could get the best of the favorites. They are both very good.

fadedmario
02-27-2010, 10:14 PM
I watched Chauncey for 6 years in Detroit. He made our team go. We did not have the team Denver has right now when we won the championship and we beat the so called "favorite". Now that Chauncey has a player like Melo playing next to him, it has even made him better. I'm glad he's had continued success. If Denver stays healthy they are as good as anyone.

Bruno
02-27-2010, 10:17 PM
Based off what? Maybe last year that was the case, but this year they're a totally different team. As of right now, Denver is my pick to win the West.

How are they a totally different team? They have almost the exact same personal.

KALI4ORNIA
02-27-2010, 10:36 PM
Chemistry wise.....Yeah maybe a different team with k-mart playing so well and ty law but still the same team basically. They didnt upgrade anywhere except back-up PG. I just wish i never had to see AC come in games. Lets keep our picks for once and get some of these young horses in here!

xbrackattackx
02-27-2010, 10:37 PM
West is tough...It will come down to Lakers,Mavs or Nuggets IMO.

leftymo
02-27-2010, 11:59 PM
No doubt. I would love to play the Nuggets. It would be (for me) more epic to beat the Nuggets than the Lakers. I just think the Mavericks match up well against the Lakers and while I believe we will match up well with our new roster to the Nuggets, it has yet been put to the test.


There's only one team in the west remotely close to LA and its not Dallas. It's Denver.

Both teams are mentally weak though.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 12:19 AM
How are they a totally different team? They have almost the exact same personal.

NO.....We dont....



TY LAWSON.....Major upgrade over the turnover prone A.C.



AARON AFFLALO......Upgrade over Dahntay Jones.


Aaron can actually shoot the ball and spread the floor, unlike Jones did against the lakers last year...Because Dahntay couldn't shoot....Aaron also plays just as aggresive defense as Dahntay does.


And Ty Lawson??? The most underrated rookie, and one of the fastest players in the league....Lakers were lucky that we had AC backing Chauncey up, because AC sucks, and he always makes Nuggets fans like me nervous when hes on the floor...We dont have that problem with Lawson....Lawson seems to be hell of a lot more reliable then A.C. Trust that.

jimbobjarree
02-28-2010, 12:34 AM
i thought the Jazz made a huge huge mistake by getting rid of Brewer. I thought he played awesome D, and really got easy transition baskets for the Jazz. He also plays great D on Kobe, even though Kobe still hits ridiculous shots that are basically perfectly defended.

brewer's defense is overated, he rarely shut down anyone, he's just athletic and really good at getting steals. You contradict yourself so much with that last sentence lol, I bet Kobe averages mid 30s against him, and Wade has to average high 30s/40s against him. The only thing that will hurt us is the amount of players we have incase of injuries.

Gibby23
02-28-2010, 12:48 AM
NO.....We dont....



TY LAWSON.....Major upgrade over the turnover prone A.C.



AARON AFFLALO......Upgrade over Dahntay Jones.


Aaron can actually shoot the ball and spread the floor, unlike Jones did against the lakers last year...Because Dahntay couldn't shoot....Aaron also plays just as aggresive defense as Dahntay does.


And Ty Lawson??? The most underrated rookie, and one of the fastest players in the league....Lakers were lucky that we had AC backing Chauncey up, because AC sucks, and he always makes Nuggets fans like me nervous when hes on the floor...We dont have that problem with Lawson....Lawson seems to be hell of a lot more reliable then A.C. Trust that.
Kiss the ring.

bahama0811
02-28-2010, 12:53 AM
They are going to have a lot of trouble with the Maverick's improvement at the 5. If you remember, Erica was their starting 5 and is good in the paint on defense, but was so incredibly slow. Haywood is incredibly more agile and mobile, I think Dallas has the defensive players (Kidd/Butler/Marion/Stevenson) to guard Melo and Nowitzki/Haywood is a huge improvement against Martin and Nene.

They haven't played with this new line-up the Mavericks have, but I think the Mavericks will have the edge. Can't wait to see what happens. :)

Assuming they get past the Mavs, I still think they lose to the Lakers. Melo barely got out of the 1st round last season, it's not enough evidence to prove to me that they have what it takes to get to the finals, much less, win it all.

Did you actually watch the playoffs last year? The Nuggets completely decimated the Hornets (including a game in which the Nuggets won by 58) and the Mavericks. They pushed the Lakers harder than anyone else.

nuggetsyankees
02-28-2010, 12:58 AM
Did you actually watch the playoffs last year? The Nuggets completely decimated the Hornets (including a game in which the Nuggets won by 58) and the Mavericks. They pushed the Lakers harder than anyone else.

couldn't agree more

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 01:12 AM
Their the darkhouse out of the contenders indeed. Do I think that Denver would push us to the brink? Not really. I say the Lakers would win a series in 5/6.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:18 AM
Did you actually watch the playoffs last year? The Nuggets completely decimated the Hornets (including a game in which the Nuggets won by 58) and the Mavericks. They pushed the Lakers harder than anyone else.

You misunderstood my "Melo barely got out out of the 1st round" part. I meant that he has been in the league for several years and hasn't gotten out of the first round until (barely) last season (thanks to Billups) like pretty much every other top player in their draft class.

And I disagree with the Nuggets pushing the Lakers the hardest. I would say the Rockets did, and it's not even close. If you ask the Lakers who they would rather play, of course they would say the Rockets, but I think that's why they went to 7 games... they under-estimated them and the match-up problems the Rockets created.

st3voness
02-28-2010, 01:28 AM
Mavericks - Nuggets:
Kidd = Billups
Butler > Afflalo
Marion <<< Anthony
Dirk >>> Martin
Haywood = Nene

Jet = JR

Chauncey is obviously the better scorer, but Kidd is the better facilitator, playmaker, and defender. I give the edge to the Mavericks because Dallas can throw Stevenson, Butler, Marion, and Kidd at Melo while Denver's only option is their primary defender to go one-on-one with Dirk or double team and leave another potent Dallas scorer wide open.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:31 AM
Mavericks - Nuggets:
Kidd = Billups
Butler > Afflalo
Marion <<< Anthony
Dirk >>> Martin
Haywood = Nene

Jet = JR

Chauncey is obviously the better scorer, but Kidd is the better facilitator, playmaker, and defender. I give the edge to the Mavericks because Dallas can throw Stevenson, Butler, Marion, and Kidd at Melo while Denver's only option is their primary defender to go one-on-one with Dirk or double team and leave another potent Dallas scorer wide open.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :clap:

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 01:34 AM
Mavericks - Nuggets:
Kidd = Billups
Butler > Afflalo
Marion <<< Anthony
Dirk >>> Martin
Haywood = Nene

Jet = JR

Chauncey is obviously the better scorer, but Kidd is the better facilitator, playmaker, and defender. I give the edge to the Mavericks because Dallas can throw Stevenson, Butler, Marion, and Kidd at Melo while Denver's only option is their primary defender to go one-on-one with Dirk or double team and leave another potent Dallas scorer wide open.

Chauncey is heads over heels better than Kidd now. Not even close.

And LOL @ your defensive schemes. So if Melo has all those guys at him, aren't their going to open options for the Nuggets? The Nuggets have the tougher team, better bench, and more explosive offensive team.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:39 AM
Chauncey is heads over heels better than Kidd now. Not even close.

And LOL @ your defensive schemes. So if Melo has all those guys at him, aren't their going to open options for the Nuggets? The Nuggets have the tougher team, better bench, and more explosive offensive team.

A better scorer? No doubt about it.
A better 3-pt threat? About the same, but I'll give the slight edge to Billups.
A better leader? I'd say they are about even. It's unfortunate Dirk and Melo suck as leaders.
A better facilitator? Definitely not.
A better defender? Definitely not.
More active hands? Definitely not.
A better rebounder? Definitely not.

Leaps and bounds/head over heels is a stretch don't you think?

And I think Steve was saying Dallas has incredible one-on-one lock down defenders. He's not saying they are going to quadruple team Melo.... As far as having a better bench, I definitely believe the edge goes to the Mavericks (when everyone is healthy).

Jason Terry, Rodrigue Beaubois, Jose Barea, Tim Thomas, Eduardo Najera, Eric Dampier, Deshawn Stevenson...

MacFitz92
02-28-2010, 01:52 AM
Chauncey is heads over heels better than Kidd now. Not even close.

And LOL @ your defensive schemes. So if Melo has all those guys at him, aren't their going to open options for the Nuggets? The Nuggets have the tougher team, better bench, and more explosive offensive team.

Hmm, its funny cause I thought we beat you guys without Caron Butler with our new team.

And Chauncey is not "head and heels" better than Kidd. Saying things like that make you sound like you were born yesterday. Who was it that on Friday night in Atlanta had +15 pts +15 assists +15 rebounds. Kidd is the bigger, smarter, better defender, and better overall guard.

Gibby23
02-28-2010, 01:57 AM
Hmm, its funny cause I thought we beat you guys without Caron Butler with our new team.

And Chauncey is not "head and heels" better than Kidd. Saying things like that make you sound like you were born yesterday. Who was it that on Friday night in Atlanta had +15 pts +15 assists +15 rebounds. Kidd is the bigger, smarter, better defender, and better overall guard.

Hmm, its funny cause we have a ring and you guys choked in the finals at home.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:57 AM
Hmm, its funny cause I thought we beat you guys without Caron Butler with our new team.

And Chauncey is not "head and heels" better than Kidd. Saying things like that make you sound like you were born yesterday. Who was it that on Friday night in Atlanta had +15 pts +15 assists +15 rebounds. Kidd is the bigger, smarter, better defender, and better overall guard.

:laugh:
Now now brother... I agree Kidd is definitely the veteran PG I would want on my team over Billups, but it appears the majority of PSD fans think he is better. It would be pointless to argue that. Kidd could average a triple-double for the remainder of the season, and people would just call him an old dog who lost his step and consider Billups "head over heels" better than Kidd.

I can't wait to find out this playoff season. :)

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:59 AM
Hmm, its funny cause we have a ring and you guys choked in the finals at home.

At least respond to that guy's post with something relevant. Your response basically means "you're right so I'm just going for the copout comeback response."

You guys choked to the Celtics as well. Sure, the following year you won. But that's just it... there can only be one championship team. Just try and be a little more original please.

KALI4ORNIA
02-28-2010, 02:02 AM
A better scorer? No doubt about it.
A better 3-pt threat? About the same, but I'll give the slight edge to Billups.
A better leader? I'd say they are about even. It's unfortunate Dirk and Melo suck as leaders.
A better facilitator? Definitely not.
A better defender? Definitely not.
More active hands? Definitely not.
A better rebounder? Definitely not.

Leaps and bounds/head over heels is a stretch don't you think?

And I think Steve was saying Dallas has incredible one-on-one lock down defenders. He's not saying they are going to quadruple team Melo.... As far as having a better bench, I definitely believe the edge goes to the Mavericks (when everyone is healthy).

Jason Terry, Rodrigue Beaubois, Jose Barea, Tim Thomas, Eduardo Najera, Eric Dampier, Deshawn Stevenson...

I'd have to disagree.....better bench 4 sure! I love Jason kidd. I grew up in the bay...loved his game since CAL...Seen Billups since when i was born in colorado....followed them both....kidd is the better player when they were in their prime.....but CB is A LEADER! AND A WINNER! I love kidd but he hasnt won JACK! That is far above all the stat on stat BS! CB Wins the big games. Lakers are tough. I am a lakers fan also so it is hard but this year i see the NUGS takin it all!

Gibby23
02-28-2010, 02:02 AM
At least respond with something relevant. Your response basically means "you're right so I'm just going for the copout comeback response."

You guys choked to the Celtics as well. Sure, the following year you won. But that's just it... there can only be one championship team. Just try and be a little more original please.

Relevant is that there is no way the Mavs beat the Lakers in the playoffs and Denver is better than the Mavs. The Mavs are the 3rd or 4th best team in the west. Marion sucks, Kidd is ok, Dirk is good, Butler is shooting a career low, and Haywood is a glorified Dampier.

AirCanada15ORL
02-28-2010, 02:07 AM
Idk but my gut tells me that the Nuggets are going to easily get to the WCF and JR Smith is gonna go off one game in the WCF, and get extra cocky and totally screw over the Nugs with bad shot after bad shot.
If not I just feel like the Nuggets can do it, they seem determined. I'm not a fan but they have such a complete team. I think Melo will show up this year and of course Billups will be Billups. The team is really identical to last year, but a year of experience and a better backup PG in Lawson. Afflalo is like the same as Dahntay Jones but a better quality player. Better role player.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:07 AM
Relevant is that there is no way the Mavs beat the Lakers in the playoffs and Denver is better than the Mavs. The Mavs are the 3rd or 4th best team in the west. Marion sucks, Kidd is ok, Dirk is good, Butler is shooting a career low, and Haywood is a glorified Dampier.

While your opinion is definitely going against the general consensus at least it is more productive than using the gay @$$ copout, "oh we have more rings than you tee hee hee..."

If all these people suck and Dirk is just good, you should be incredibly pissed off that the Lakers split the season to such a mediocre-to-bad team, right?

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 02:08 AM
Kidd had a better prime then Billups.....But Billups is better now, definately.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:11 AM
Idk but my gut tells me that the Nuggets are going to easily get to the WCF and JR Smith is gonna go off one game in the WCF, and get extra cocky and totally screw over the Nugs with bad shot after bad shot.
If not I just feel like the Nuggets can do it, they seem determined. I'm not a fan but they have such a complete team. I think Melo will show up this year and of course Billups will be Billups. The team is really identical to last year, but a year of experience and a better backup PG in Lawson. Afflalo is like the same as Dahntay Jones but a better quality player. Better role player.

Putting the Mavericks aside, I just don't see the Nuggets beating the Lakers in the finals. I KNOW the Nuggets are "undefeated" (as Nuggets fan like to say) against the Lakers right now, but there is not enough evidence that they have what it takes to do it in 7 games with the Lakers having home court advantage.

Their new acquisitions is a slight, if at all, upgrade over their last year's team. I say this and I would actually want the Nuggets to win if the Mavericks were eliminated.

Raph12
02-28-2010, 02:13 AM
I think they can... the Lakers and Cavs are heavy favs this season, I think the Nuggets and Magic can make it pretty damn interesting though.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 02:15 AM
Their new acquisitions is a slight, if at all, upgrade over their last year's team. I say this and I would actually want the Nuggets to win if the Mavericks were eliminated.

Explain slight???

And we was only a couple of failed inbound passes last year from winning key games against the Lakers in the playoffs. So it doesnt seem farfetched to realize the potential.

shep33
02-28-2010, 02:20 AM
brewer's defense is overated, he rarely shut down anyone, he's just athletic and really good at getting steals. You contradict yourself so much with that last sentence lol, I bet Kobe averages mid 30s against him, and Wade has to average high 30s/40s against him. The only thing that will hurt us is the amount of players we have incase of injuries.

C'mon man he made Kobe work for those points last post season. The guy brings energy and was one if not the most athletic player for them, often getting the crowd going. I'm not saying they'd win the championship with him, but the guy is pretty decent. Close to 10ppg, 1.6 steals, 3apg, and shot a high percentage at nearly 50%. Great role player, and guy who can at least get steals, make a couple athletic plays and shoot a high percentage is pretty good IMO. So are you saying that Brewer was just a starter who sucked completely and had no purpose on that team other than to take up a roster spot?

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 02:20 AM
A better scorer? No doubt about it.
A better 3-pt threat? About the same, but I'll give the slight edge to Billups.
A better leader? I'd say they are about even. It's unfortunate Dirk and Melo suck as leaders.
A better facilitator? Definitely not.
A better defender? Definitely not.
More active hands? Definitely not.
A better rebounder? Definitely not.

Leaps and bounds/head over heels is a stretch don't you think?

And I think Steve was saying Dallas has incredible one-on-one lock down defenders. He's not saying they are going to quadruple team Melo.... As far as having a better bench, I definitely believe the edge goes to the Mavericks (when everyone is healthy).

Jason Terry, Rodrigue Beaubois, Jose Barea, Tim Thomas, Eduardo Najera, Eric Dampier, Deshawn Stevenson...

Billups is HANDS DOWN the better player now. The only advantage Kidd would hold on him is passing and rebounding. Chauncey is the more reliable defender as well. Chauncey is also CLUTCH, can't say the same about Kidd. So Chauncey over Kidd by a STRETCH, sorry.

And the previous poster talked about throwing people at Dirk would leave room for "Dallas's potent scorers"? So I reiterated why wouldn't the other Denver players be able to score when Melo is doubled?

And the bench, please. Smith, Anderson, and Lawson are much more explosive than the Mavs bench as a whole.

st3voness
02-28-2010, 02:24 AM
Chauncey is heads over heels better than Kidd now. Not even close.

And LOL @ your defensive schemes. So if Melo has all those guys at him, aren't their going to open options for the Nuggets? The Nuggets have the tougher team, better bench, and more explosive offensive team.

:facepalm:

You're right. I listed all four of those guys because we will be quadruple teaming Melo. Get a clue, moron. I meant one-on-one perimeter defense.

I'm not even going to even get into Kidd and his intangibles debate with you, but yes, Chauncey is the superior offensive player.

Tougher team? Pre-trade, I'd agree with you, but it's a moot point because it's not something you can measure.

More explosive offensive team? Yes, they are .. but Dallas is the better defensive team stat wise, which you conveniently forgot to include.

Better bench? I'd have to do some number averaging, but both teams have stellar benches so I don't think that will be a defining factor in the overall play of things. But speaking of benches, almost every team has a better one than LA. :D

Marques24kobe
02-28-2010, 02:26 AM
I dont know is Cleveland a darkhorse to win it all? They got swept in the Eastern Conference Finals by Orlando. The Nuggets took the Lakers to game 7 of the Western Conference Finals. So technically the Nuggets where the third best team in basketball and faired better then the Cavs.

So I would say no they arent a darkhorse to win it all. Not when your a top five team your not.

The only thing about Denver is they win by the three and they die by the three. When they play their best JR Smith is on. But if that guy cant hit them they are an good team but not great.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if they won it all. I dont think they will but they have the pieces. And if a team gets hot watch out.

Marques24kobe
02-28-2010, 02:34 AM
no

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:46 AM
Billups is HANDS DOWN the better player now. The only advantage Kidd would hold on him is passing and rebounding. Chauncey is the more reliable defender as well. Chauncey is also CLUTCH, can't say the same about Kidd. So Chauncey over Kidd by a STRETCH, sorry.

And the previous poster talked about throwing people at Dirk would leave room for "Dallas's potent scorers"? So I reiterated why wouldn't the other Denver players be able to score when Melo is doubled?

And the bench, please. Smith, Anderson, and Lawson are much more explosive than the Mavs bench as a whole.

:facepalm:
If you think Billups is a better defender than Kidd (1st team all defense team) and a better rebounder (forgetting the other things I listed for a moment) you seriously don't know anything about either player. You would stand all alone in your Laker's forum if you tried to make that argument.

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 02:52 AM
I think it depends how hard Denver has it in the second round. If we assume that the standings stay about the same and Denver meets Dallas in the second round and Dallas gives Denver a hard 7 games, it'll be a battle for them to contend with tired legs against the lakers in WCF (well, as long as LA doesn't see Houston in the second round again...)

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:53 AM
Explain slight???

And we was only a couple of failed inbound passes last year from winning key games against the Lakers in the playoffs. So it doesnt seem farfetched to realize the potential.

Reason why I think it's slight:
AC - Veteran with playoff experience/tough PG
Ty - Quick PG, better player than AC but lacks experience and the defensiveness AC has
Overall, Ty gets the edge in the regular season, AC gets the edge come playoff time

Jones - great defender, has experience, not as efficient as Arron
Arron - not as great of a defender as Jones was, much more efficient offensively, able to hit the 3 ball.
Overall, an increase in talent.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 02:53 AM
Relevant is that there is no way the Mavs beat the Lakers in the playoffs and Denver is better than the Mavs. The Mavs are the 3rd or 4th best team in the west. Marion sucks, Kidd is ok, Dirk is good, Butler is shooting a career low, and Haywood is a glorified Dampier.

And that team with a bunch of okay-to sucky players is beating teams like the Lakers, Magic, and Hawks and has only lost once since the all star game.

Mavs definately have the experience and veteran leadership to beat the Lakers in a 7 game series.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 02:55 AM
Billups is HANDS DOWN the better player now. The only advantage Kidd would hold on him is passing and rebounding. Chauncey is the more reliable defender as well. Chauncey is also CLUTCH, can't say the same about Kidd. So Chauncey over Kidd by a STRETCH, sorry.

And the previous poster talked about throwing people at Dirk would leave room for "Dallas's potent scorers"? So I reiterated why wouldn't the other Denver players be able to score when Melo is doubled?

And the bench, please. Smith, Anderson, and Lawson are much more explosive than the Mavs bench as a whole.

You sir have not been watching Jason Kidd play as of late. He is arguably playing like the best PG in the league right now, especially after last night. If we're talking about RIGHT NOW, Jason Kidd is HANDS DOWN the better player, sorry for making you feel ********.

By the way, change your ****ing sig it's slowing down my computer.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 02:57 AM
The nerve of some of these ****ing homers on this site is unbelievable. ****ing give credit where it's due. Once the Lakers or Nuggets actually BEAT this current team, then talk.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:57 AM
You sir have not been watching Jason Kidd play as of late. He is arguably playing like the best PG in the league right now, especially after last night. If we're talking about RIGHT NOW, Jason Kidd is HANDS DOWN the better player, sorry for making you feel ********.

By the way, change your ****ing sig it's slowing down my computer.

100% agree with you.

Espn statisticians even ranks him as the 2nd most productive PG to date for this season (Nash is number 1).
I get it, Billups is clutch and won a championship... I think there should be more to it than just that though.

shep33
02-28-2010, 02:58 AM
I think it depends how hard Denver has it in the second round. If we assume that the standings stay about the same and Denver meets Dallas in the second round and Dallas gives Denver a hard 7 games, it'll be a battle for them to contend with tired legs against the lakers in WCF (well, as long as LA doesn't see Houston in the second round again...)

Yeah that Dallas vs Denver series is gonna be sweet, if LA stays at #1 in the west they'll play a beat up Blazers team then Utah or Phoenix, which I think they could handle farely easily. Really their first challenge would be the WCF in Denver/Dallas. Denver right now would play the Spurs who you know aren't gonna get swept, and could extend the series to 6 games or so, while Dallas would play OKC in the first round... OKC is awesome to watch and really has a bright future, but they remind me of the Blazers of last year, I don't think they'll get it done come playoff time just cause the lack of experience.

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 03:09 AM
The nerve of some of these ****ing homers on this site is unbelievable. ****ing give credit where it's due. Once the Lakers or Nuggets actually BEAT this current team, then talk.

Its one game that you beat the lakers, and the series has ended. I really feel like you and many other mav fans are jumping the gun. You are using one game to extrapolate over a 7 game series.



Also you say that until the Nuggets beat this current, we can' talk about it, but shouldn't that apply to Mav fans too? This current Dallas team has not even defeated the nuggets, how can you say that they deserve credit for it? You are exemplifying the same homer behavior you accuse others of having.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 03:17 AM
Reason why I think it's slight:
AC - Veteran with playoff experience/tough PG
Ty - Quick PG, better player than AC but lacks experience and the defensiveness AC has
Overall, Ty gets the edge in the regular season, AC gets the edge come playoff time

Jones - great defender, has experience, not as efficient as Arron
Arron - not as great of a defender as Jones was, much more efficient offensively, able to hit the 3 ball.
Overall, an increase in talent.


A.C.s playoff experience isn not good experience....All of boneheaded turnovers cost us greatly in some games, and he likes throwing the ball into the crowd, instead of a player half of the time....Only people who arent fans of the Nuggets, thinks hes ok, while most Nuggets fans that I know cant stand seein him on the floor.

Afflalo...Just as hard nosed and aggresive as Dahntay on defense...If you watched enough, you would know this...Afflalo knows he has to fill that void, becuase it was emphasized in the beginning of the season when Dahntay left....And yes, he is a major upgrade in the offensive end, because Dahntay barely played any offense....Sure he would do some things, but Afflalo spreads the floor more...And will make it harder on teams in the playoffs this season.

I'd say it's more then slight.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 03:20 AM
Its one game that you beat the lakers, and the series has ended. I really feel like you and many other mav fans are jumping the gun. You are using one game to extrapolate over a 7 game series.



Also you say that until the Nuggets beat this current, we can' talk about it, but shouldn't that apply to Mav fans too? This current Dallas team has not even defeated the nuggets, how can you say that they deserve credit for it? You are exemplifying the same homer behavior you accuse others of having.

Let me own you really quick once again. Sunday, December 27. Dallas wins 104-96 in Denver. :facepalm:

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 03:23 AM
Let me own you really quick once again. Sunday, December 27. Dallas wins 104-96 in Denver. :facepalm:

Yup...The game without Billups...Great....


But how about the game with Melo and Billups???

Denver wins 127-91....February 9th.

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 03:25 AM
Let me own you really quick once again. Sunday, December 27. Dallas wins 104-96 in Denver. :facepalm:

Wait, oh my gosh, was that the team with Josh Howard, or was that the current you are so excited about? I forget. I'm pretty sure that was the game Josh Howard had 14 points in.

If you are going to negate what others teams have done against you with the previous team (pre-Butler/Haywood/Stevenson) don't tout their wins. Again, nice job exhibiting the homer behaviors you accuse others of having.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 03:25 AM
Yup...The game without Billups...Great....


But how about the game with Melo and Billups???

Denver wins 127-91....February 9th.

Excuse? Dallas has beat the Lakers and Hawks without Butler, I wouldn't be sitting here making excuses had we lost.

What about the upcoming game with Haywood and Butler??? Get ready to get raped.

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 03:26 AM
Yup...The game without Billups...Great....


But how about the game with Melo and Billups???

Denver wins 127-91....February 9th.

Seriously, this guy thinks he wins arguments by distorting facts and only using information that makes his case. Does he really think the rest of us can't fact-check him? Marvrix = the PSD equivalent of Fox News.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 03:27 AM
Wait, oh my gosh, was that the team with Josh Howard, or was that the current you are so excited about? I forget. I'm pretty sure that was the game Josh Howard had 14 points in.

If you are going to negate what others teams have done against you with the previous team (pre-Butler/Haywood/Stevenson) don't tout their wins. Again, nice job exhibiting the homer behaviors you accuse others of having.

That's even better. That old team is nothing compared to this vastly improved team so it makes that win look that much better.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 03:28 AM
Excuse? Dallas has beat the Lakers and Hawks without Butler, I wouldn't be sitting here making excuses had we lost.

What about the upcoming game with Haywood and Butler??? Get ready to get raped.

I'm not making excuses homeboy...I'm merely stating the differentiating factor between both games, and stating as fact, not excuses...Fx it up.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 03:29 AM
Seriously, this guy thinks he wins arguments by distorting facts and only using information that makes his case. Does he really think the rest of us can't fact-check him? Marvrix = the PSD equivalent of Fox News.

^^Thats what it seems like....He seems mad. LoL.

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 03:33 AM
You sir have not been watching Jason Kidd play as of late. He is arguably playing like the best PG in the league right now, especially after last night. If we're talking about RIGHT NOW, Jason Kidd is HANDS DOWN the better player, sorry for making you feel ********.

By the way, change your ****ing sig it's slowing down my computer.

Have you ever wondered why everyone hates on you? Because your the biggest homer on this site. If I were to start a thread, I can guarntee for the first time in PSD history, Cavs/Lakers/Celtics/Magic/Kobe/Bron/Wade fans would agree that you overrate your team and players so ****ing much. A recent stretch of games doesn't make you the better player. Andre Miller dropped 50, was he the best PG in the league at the time?

By the way, no thank you. Hopefully slowing down your computer will prevent your sorry mind of yours to post on here.

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 03:35 AM
That's even better. That old team is nothing compared to this vastly improved team so it makes that win look that much better.

Seriously? Do you really not see my point? If you use that argument (Dallas beating Denver with Josh Howard), then don't say arguments about previous losses (before this current team) are invalid. All I'm pointing out is how you twist the rules of the argument to allow your points, but invalidate similar points made against you by others.

If you want to debate about this current team then don't say you can beat Denver cause you haven't yet. If you want to talk about the whole season, then all the other arguments brought upon the Mavs are now valid. You can't have both, understand?

That said, Denver is not the dark horse. They are a contender, and have consistently shown to give LA problems. They play tough D, and if Kmart and JR don't make boneheaded plays in a 7 game series, as a lakers fan I fear them more than any other contender, including the Cavs.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 03:35 AM
I'm not making excuses homeboy...I'm merely stating the differentiating factor between both games, and stating as fact, not excuses...Fx it up.

No, it was an excuse. That's the first thing a fan will say when they lose a game. "But so and so didn't play...yada yada yada". The NBA is a game of injuries and staying healthy. It's all a part of the game. Teams have won championships based off of health of other teams. Obviously had Billups played it would have made a difference, but you and I don't have the power to predict what may have happened had Billups played. A loss is a loss.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 03:39 AM
No, it was an excuse. That's the first thing a fan will say when they lose a game. "But so and so didn't play...yada yada yada". The NBA is a game of injuries and staying healthy. It's all a part of the game. Teams have won championships based off of health of other teams. Obviously had Billups played it would have made a difference, but you and I don't have the power to predict what may have happened had Billups played. A loss is a loss.


Look what happened when Billups did play the 2nd game against yall...What you gotta say about that???? What you got to say about the 2nd game????.....You need to learn how distinguish FACTS from EXCUSES...I dont need the power to predict, I use indicators by measuring what happened between both games, that Billups did and didnt play against yall. Easy.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 03:39 AM
Seriously? Do you really not see my point? If you use that argument (Dallas beating Denver with Josh Howard), then don't say arguments about previous losses (before this current team) are invalid. All I'm pointing out is how you twist the rules of the argument to allow your points, but invalidate similar points made against you by others.

If you want to debate about this current team then don't say you can beat Denver cause you haven't yet. If you want to talk about the whole season, then all the other arguments brought upon the Mavs are now valid. You can't have both, understand?

That said, Denver is not the dark horse. They are a contender, and have consistently shown to give LA problems. They play tough D, and if Kmart and JR don't make boneheaded plays in a 7 game series, as a lakers fan I fear them more than any other contender, including the Cavs.You can obviously base a teams success off of other teams to judge wheather or not that team is better than a team it hasn't played yet.

Say Dallas goes something like 26-2 the rest of the way (making up a random number) and Denver ends up going 16-12. Without playing eachother, it would be anyones guess that the Mavericks are the better team.

This vastly improved team looks very hard to beat right now, anyone could make a strong case that the team is better than Denver just from watching how they've been playing.

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 03:39 AM
:facepalm:

You're right. I listed all four of those guys because we will be quadruple teaming Melo. Get a clue, moron. I meant one-on-one perimeter defense.

I'm not even going to even get into Kidd and his intangibles debate with you, but yes, Chauncey is the superior offensive player.

Tougher team? Pre-trade, I'd agree with you, but it's a moot point because it's not something you can measure.

More explosive offensive team? Yes, they are .. but Dallas is the better defensive team stat wise, which you conveniently forgot to include.

Better bench? I'd have to do some number averaging, but both teams have stellar benches so I don't think that will be a defining factor in the overall play of things. But speaking of benches, almost every team has a better one than LA. :D

Genius, I never said anything about quadruple teaming. I was saying that you listed the options that you would throw out on Melo but did not mention that their would be open "potent scorers" but you said it for Dirk. Funny, because Denver is the team with the better offensive arsenal.

Speaking of teams, we are currently the defending World Champions. :cool:

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 03:41 AM
Look what happened when Billups did play the 2nd game against yall...What you gotta say about that???? What you got to say about the 2nd game????.....You need to learn how distinguish FACTS from EXCUSES...I dont need the power to predict, I use indicators by measuring what happened between both games, that Billups did and didnt play against yall. Easy.

Have you heard of off nights? You can't expect Dallas to shoot 38% and Denver to be shooting 60%. 127 points? I'd like to see them do that again, no team has scored more than 97 since the trade.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 03:44 AM
Have you heard of off nights? You can't expect Dallas to shoot 38% and Denver to be shooting 60%. 127 points? I'd like to see them do that again, no team has scored more than 97 since the trade.


Off nights??? Oh you using excuses now??? LOL....How do you accuse people of being homers, when you're the prime epitome of one???

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 03:47 AM
Off nights??? Oh you using excuses now??? LOL....How do you accuse people of being homers, when you're the prime epitome of one???

...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is shooting 38% not an off night? That's factual evidence, not an excuse.

Saying a player didn't play in a game is an excuse.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 03:51 AM
...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is shooting 38% not an off night? That's factual evidence, not an excuse.

Saying a player didn't play in a game is an excuse.


It might've been great defense...What do you know???


C what I mean???

Saying a player didnt play in one game, and pointing out the affect he had in playing in the other game is not excuses either. It's FACT...Once again, learn how to distinguish between FACTS and EXCUSES.

Mavrix
02-28-2010, 04:02 AM
It might've been great defense...What do you know???


C what I mean???

Saying a player didnt play in one game, and pointing out the affect he had in playing in the other game is not excuses either. It's FACT...Once again, learn how to distinguish between FACTS and EXCUSES.

Shooting 38% is an off night for pretty much every team in the NBA. That's a given fact.

Saying a player didn't play in a game after someone brings up a loss is an excuse because regardless if that player played or not no one knows if it would have truely mattered.

drobe86
02-28-2010, 04:33 AM
Denver isn't any more of a contender than the Mavs are. The nuggets are as inconsistent as they come. And let's be real if we beat this team with Josh Howard and Erica, I'm quite sure we handle business with Butler/Haywood/Stevenson.... Just sayin

ko8e24
02-28-2010, 04:33 AM
Lakers VS Mavs

2010 WCF


Book IT!

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 04:50 AM
Shooting 38% is an off night for pretty much every team in the NBA. That's a given fact.

Saying a player didn't play in a game after someone brings up a loss is an excuse because regardless if that player played or not no one knows if it would have truely mattered.


You made an excuse....You accuse people of your own flaws, and we will see if your team is 31 pts better then the last time we played. LoL.

Meth
02-28-2010, 04:54 AM
Interwebs drama!

ragee
02-28-2010, 05:00 AM
I think the key for the Nuggets to Win itthis year is for them to stay at the 2 spot and hope for the Mavericks to beat the Lakers... Although I am a Maverick fan, I have got to admit that the only way the Nuggets can go through the west is through them... There is no way Denver can beat LA in a 7 game series...

With that being said, my Mavs is no walk in the park and we may be the dark horse to winning it all!

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:06 AM
A.C.s playoff experience isn not good experience....All of boneheaded turnovers cost us greatly in some games, and he likes throwing the ball into the crowd, instead of a player half of the time....Only people who arent fans of the Nuggets, thinks hes ok, while most Nuggets fans that I know cant stand seein him on the floor.

Afflalo...Just as hard nosed and aggresive as Dahntay on defense...If you watched enough, you would know this...Afflalo knows he has to fill that void, becuase it was emphasized in the beginning of the season when Dahntay left....And yes, he is a major upgrade in the offensive end, because Dahntay barely played any offense....Sure he would do some things, but Afflalo spreads the floor more...And will make it harder on teams in the playoffs this season.

I'd say it's more then slight.

They are pretty insignificant but an upgrade nonetheless. We can agree to disagree. They would barely get any playing time on the Mav's bench.

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 06:51 AM
You can obviously base a teams success off of other teams to judge wheather or not that team is better than a team it hasn't played yet.

Say Dallas goes something like 26-2 the rest of the way (making up a random number) and Denver ends up going 16-12. Without playing eachother, it would be anyones guess that the Mavericks are the better team.

This vastly improved team looks very hard to beat right now, anyone could make a strong case that the team is better than Denver just from watching how they've been playing.

I agree with the scenario you presented. But that's over a long period of time. That's exactly the point I'm making, over six games, its not indicative of anything. Teams have highs and lows. Yes Dallas has beat contenders, but so have other teams. I just think given what we seen over the whole season of the nuggets (tough defensive minded team with a lights out scorer in melo, and the veteran clutchness of Billups) versus the brief 6 games we have seen of the Dallas Mavericks, at this point, its difficult to tip the hat to the Mavs in a 7 games series.

Of course, like you said, if the Mavs go close out the season with two losses, and the Nuggets and Lakers do not, I will gladly concede to you, at that point, the Mavs are the better team. As of right now, over only 6 games, its really difficult to do that. Is that fair?

jlee3936
02-28-2010, 07:01 AM
Did you actually watch the playoffs last year? The Nuggets completely decimated the Hornets (including a game in which the Nuggets won by 58) and the Mavericks. They pushed the Lakers harder than anyone else.

i think the rockets pushed the lakers harder than denver did

DenButsu
02-28-2010, 10:24 AM
I just skimmed through some of this thread (sorry I don't have enough time to read the whole thing right now.

Just a few things:

First, everyone CALM THE **** DOWN who's making this crap personal. If you've got something critical to say, criticize the post, not the poster.

That's the most important onel.

-------------------

Second, though, too many people here (on all sides of the debate) are putting too much stock into single games - a win here, a loss there, on any given night, it really doesn't mean that much. So, speaking only about the Nuggets, I would look at their entire season (and not one or two scattered wins against LAL/DAL/UTA/etc.), and just say that they've proven by way of their stellar record against winning teams (and the higher you cut off the opposing teams' win %, the better the record) that they can hang with all of the best teams in the league. How far they can hang with them in the postseason is just something they'll have to prove once they get to it.

Finally, a lot of people are very badly underestimating how significant the Afflalo/Lawson upgrades over Jones/AC really are. Not only that, but I think practically nobody has talked about the upgrade of 2009-10 Kenyon Martin over 2008-09 Kenyon Martin. He has carried a much larger share of the team's load this season, with very successful results.


So I won't say that the Nuggets WILL beat any team in particular. I'll just say that they're fully capable of beating any team in the league - even in a 7 game series, imo - provided they're in good health. Teams don't always live up to their capabilities, and we all know the Nuggets have been guilty of that before (2008 first round exit at the broom of the Lakers comes to mind), but a Nuggets team playing up to its full capabilities is just as legit a contender as any of the ones that usually get talked about.

DenButsu
02-28-2010, 10:26 AM
They are pretty insignificant but an upgrade nonetheless.

Please explain in detail why you think so. And then later (because I have to go now), I will explain to you in detail exactly why you're wrong.

drobe86
02-28-2010, 12:06 PM
[QUOTE=DenButsu;12451894]Please explain in detail why you think so. And then later (because I have to go now), I will explain to you in detail exactly why you're wrong.[/QUOT

I'll tell you why those upgrades won't matter at all. Because in the playoffs it's about the top 8 players in the rotation.

Billups Kidd
Afflalo Butler
Melo Marion
Martin Dirk
Nene Haywood


In the starting 5 alone things are eerily similiar. But the thing is Butler and Dirk are 10x better than the man at their same position on the other side of the floor. Billups and Kidd is a wash. Melo is significantly better than Marion and Haywood and Nene is a wash. So you go to the bench

Jr Jet
Birdman Dampier
Lawson Barea/Stevenson


Jr and Jet is a wash as is Lawson and Barea. Birdman is better than Damp but it's not all that significant because he doesn't score anyway. Though JJ can give you alot more off the pick and roll. Stevenson is listed for 1 reason only. DEFENSE. You saw what he did to Kobe...... Add this to the fact that the Mavs are the best road team in the league, and Denver struggles with the weakest NBA teams on the road. Mavs win this 7 game series in 6 games......

st3voness
02-28-2010, 01:27 PM
Genius, I never said anything about quadruple teaming. I was saying that you listed the options that you would throw out on Melo but did not mention that their would be open "potent scorers" but you said it for Dirk. Funny, because Denver is the team with the better offensive arsenal.

Speaking of teams, we are currently the defending World Champions. :cool:

You're an idiot.

Those four perimeter players are capable of guarding Melo one-on-one while doing a good job WITHOUT the help of other teammates (a la Kobe's **** game, 9-23).

Denver, on the other hand, can not guard Dirk one-on-one so they will be forced to double team.

Do you understand yet or do I need to draw you a picture?

masalex1205
02-28-2010, 01:40 PM
I don't think this is anything new. Denver can beat LA, without a doubt imo.

masalex1205
02-28-2010, 01:42 PM
The underrating of Billups continues

fadedmario
02-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Mavericks - Nuggets:
Kidd = Billups
Butler > Afflalo
Marion <<< Anthony
Dirk >>> Martin
Haywood = Nene

Jet = JR

Chauncey is obviously the better scorer, but Kidd is the better facilitator, playmaker, and defender. I give the edge to the Mavericks because Dallas can throw Stevenson, Butler, Marion, and Kidd at Melo while Denver's only option is their primary defender to go one-on-one with Dirk or double team and leave another potent Dallas scorer wide open.

Kidd has not won anything. Chauncey is twice the basketball player as Kidd.

bigmac8675
02-28-2010, 03:00 PM
No... my darkhorse team is OKC.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 03:08 PM
They are pretty insignificant but an upgrade nonetheless. We can agree to disagree. They would barely get any playing time on the Mav's bench.

How are they insignicant now???? First its slight, now insignificant????


They make us better then the WCF team that played the Lakers a season ago....You can't explain what you mean by insignificant or slight, and make it convincing???...And yes, we can agree to disagree, except what I base my reasoning on in agreein, is actually knowing what UPGRADE those players bring to my own team that I cheer for.


And the thought that Ty Lawson [Ranked one of the top elite players in college last year], and Aaron barely gettin any playing time on the Mavs bench, is quite meaningless...Same thing was said about Dahntay last year, and then in the offseason, many teams were trying to acquire him....It dont matter if they wouldnt get playing time on your team, they add certain elements on our team that makes us more dangerous the team you seen in the playoffs last year.

tp13baby
02-28-2010, 03:15 PM
They are going to have a lot of trouble with the Maverick's improvement at the 5. If you remember, Erica was their starting 5 and is good in the paint on defense, but was so incredibly slow. Haywood is incredibly more agile and mobile, I think Dallas has the defensive players (Kidd/Butler/Marion/Stevenson) to guard Melo and Nowitzki/Haywood is a huge improvement against Martin and Nene.

They haven't played with this new line-up the Mavericks have, but I think the Mavericks will have the edge. Can't wait to see what happens. :)

Assuming they get past the Mavs, I still think they lose to the Lakers. Melo barely got out of the 1st round last season, it's not enough evidence to prove to me that they have what it takes to get to the finals, much less, win it all.

he easily got out of the first round.

and Denver is better than last year. Lawson is better than Carter and Affalo is better than Jones. Denver lost in 5 to LA but remember they threw 2 of those games away with inbounds plays.
i agree they are not mentally tough considering they are 14-10 to below .500 teams but they are 24-11 i believe against teams over 5 hundred. Against the top 6 teams in the league they are 7-2. It will be interesting what happens in the playoffs

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 04:04 PM
-------------------
Finally, a lot of people are very badly underestimating how significant the Afflalo/Lawson upgrades over Jones/AC really are. Not only that, but I think practically nobody has talked about the upgrade of 2009-10 Kenyon Martin over 2008-09 Kenyon Martin. He has carried a much larger share of the team's load this season, with very successful results.




This is completely on point. Afflalo is a complete upgrade offensively over Jones, he spreads the floor for Melo, Billups and Nene. Also Ty Lawson is a beast. If he was on a lottery team, he'll be in ROY talks with Curry, Jennings, and Evans.

KMart is playing great defense this year. He has been injured, so I'll watch out for that. As a laker fan I can appreciate how tough Denver is, and think it will be hard for the lakers to get into the Finals.

politiczombie
02-28-2010, 04:18 PM
You're about as dumb as the picture looks in your sig. Billups was playing on teams with all star players. Richard Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio Mcdyess, Tayshawn Prince. Kidd was playing with the likes of Kerry Kittles, Kenyon Martin, Jayson Williams (whos now serving a prison sentence might i add) Are you serious? Are you really that dumb and can't comprehend the fact that you actually need a decent supporting cast?


The year Billups won they didn't have Antonio and Tayshaun didn't even start till about the playoffs Chauncey carried his team that year Chauncey is the reason why Rip is highly thought of Rip can only play off the pass he has no dribble skills he just runs and shoots and how many times did they have to fill the void for Sheed cause he was in foul trouble and I like how when you name the players Kidd played with you named them peole why not name Carter and Jefferson 2 rlly good players right there I'm not trying to take anything away from Kidd though I love Kidd I think he is best rebound/defender pg in the game but Billups offense is better and I like his decision making skills a lot more and both are great at leadership they are both great players thats all people need to say about them who cares which one is better they are both amazing players and both deserve the hof

drobe86
02-28-2010, 04:34 PM
The year Billups won they didn't have Antonio and Tayshaun didn't even start till about the playoffs Chauncey carried his team that year Chauncey is the reason why Rip is highly thought of Rip can only play off the pass he has no dribble skills he just runs and shoots and how many times did they have to fill the void for Sheed cause he was in foul trouble and I like how when you name the players Kidd played with you named them peole why not name Carter and Jefferson 2 rlly good players right there I'm not trying to take anything away from Kidd though I love Kidd I think he is best rebound/defender pg in the game but Billups offense is better and I like his decision making skills a lot more and both are great at leadership they are both great players thats all people need to say about them who cares which one is better they are both amazing players and both deserve the hof

Well I didn't name Jefferson because he wasn't on the team when the Nets went to the finals the first time vs. LA. Vince Carter was ok, but honestly he's the most overrated "superstar" in NBA history. but there's no way you can tell me that Nets team was as good as those Piston teams. Are you kidding me? Last but not least, Billups career is nowhere near what Kidds is. Billups was a journeyman for most of the first 5-6 years. Yea he won a championship and came on late, but look at the teams he was on. Detroit was had a great coach and a great team from the starters all the way to the bench. And the Nuggets have a good team as well....... Put Kidd on those same teams and they do the same....

drobe86
02-28-2010, 04:37 PM
The year Billups won they didn't have Antonio and Tayshaun didn't even start till about the playoffs Chauncey carried his team that year Chauncey is the reason why Rip is highly thought of Rip can only play off the pass he has no dribble skills he just runs and shoots and how many times did they have to fill the void for Sheed cause he was in foul trouble and I like how when you name the players Kidd played with you named them peole why not name Carter and Jefferson 2 rlly good players right there I'm not trying to take anything away from Kidd though I love Kidd I think he is best rebound/defender pg in the game but Billups offense is better and I like his decision making skills a lot more and both are great at leadership they are both great players thats all people need to say about them who cares which one is better they are both amazing players and both deserve the hof


And how can you like billups decision making skills more when he averages a full 3+ assists less for his career than Kidd? Rebounding? Steals? Defense? Billups is better than kidd in one area and that's scoring. And you are calling Billups a HOF? When he spent 6 years being a bum? OK if you say so....

AI4MVP
02-28-2010, 04:51 PM
denver nuggets>la lakers

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:17 PM
Please explain in detail why you think so. And then later (because I have to go now), I will explain to you in detail exactly why you're wrong.

Umm... your Nugget buddy already asked me and I already answered it. Don't be lazy... go back and look if you're interested.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:19 PM
Kidd has not won anything. Chauncey is twice the basketball player as Kidd.

Twice the offensive player than Kidd, without a doubt. But Kidd is still the better PG.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:22 PM
How are they insignicant now???? First its slight, now insignificant????




Um... do you really not get it or are you just trying to act stupid? To say something is a slight upgrade COULD very well mean it's insignificant. If you gain .0005 lbs in the course of 5 years, you DO weigh more but it is pretty insignificant.

Way to try and make it sound like I'm being inconsistent. :laugh:

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:25 PM
he easily got out of the first round.

and Denver is better than last year. Lawson is better than Carter and Affalo is better than Jones. Denver lost in 5 to LA but remember they threw 2 of those games away with inbounds plays.
i agree they are not mentally tough considering they are 14-10 to below .500 teams but they are 24-11 i believe against teams over 5 hundred. Against the top 6 teams in the league they are 7-2. It will be interesting what happens in the playoffs

Once again, your fellow Nuggets fan already responded and misunderstood what I was saying. What I meant by "barely got out of the 1st round" is that it took him several season to get out, whereas all the other top players in the same draft class got out of the 1st round before Melo. Billups being the team's true leader is what allowed it to happen in my opinion.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:26 PM
i think the rockets pushed the lakers harder than denver did

Without a doubt brother.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 05:26 PM
Um... do you really not get it or are you just trying to act stupid? To say something is a slight upgrade COULD very well mean it's insignificant. If you gain .0005 lbs in the course of 5 years, you DO weigh more but it is pretty insignificant.

Way to try and make it sound like I'm being inconsistent. :laugh:

You're the one who is being STUPID...I can tell you dont know what you are talkin about, probably havent even watched a Nuggets game this season, and really dont know **** about the team in the first place.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:29 PM
The year Billups won they didn't have Antonio and Tayshaun didn't even start till about the playoffs Chauncey carried his team that year Chauncey is the reason why Rip is highly thought of Rip can only play off the pass he has no dribble skills he just runs and shoots and how many times did they have to fill the void for Sheed cause he was in foul trouble and I like how when you name the players Kidd played with you named them peole why not name Carter and Jefferson 2 rlly good players right there I'm not trying to take anything away from Kidd though I love Kidd I think he is best rebound/defender pg in the game but Billups offense is better and I like his decision making skills a lot more and both are great at leadership they are both great players thats all people need to say about them who cares which one is better they are both amazing players and both deserve the hof

More like Carter, 1 really good player. Jefferson's stats as a Net is a direct result of Kidd's amazing PG abilities. In no way shape or form does Chauncey make his teammates better than Kidd does.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:30 PM
And how can you like billups decision making skills more when he averages a full 3+ assists less for his career than Kidd? Rebounding? Steals? Defense? Billups is better than kidd in one area and that's scoring. And you are calling Billups a HOF? When he spent 6 years being a bum? OK if you say so....

:laugh:
If Billups makes the HOF, the HOF will lose so much prestige.

AI4MVP
02-28-2010, 05:30 PM
THIS is ****ing basketball. anyone watching lakers nuggs?? i love it

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:31 PM
denver nuggets>la lakers

In the regular season so far? True statement
Come playoff time? I highly doubt it (and I don't like the Lakers).

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:34 PM
You're the one who is being STUPID...I can tell you dont know what you are talkin about, probably havent even watched a Nuggets game this season, and really dont know **** about the team in the first place.

You resort to the "I'm rubber your glue" comeback while completely avoiding a productive response to my post.

I assume you get it now that I made it clear and you just wanted to rant? Do you understand something may be a slight upgrade all while being insignificant? Please respond for clarity so we can move on...

AI4MVP
02-28-2010, 05:39 PM
In the regular season so far? True statement
Come playoff time? I highly doubt it (and I don't like the Lakers).

idk dude. denver just looks physically tougher. there deeper. better bench. they match up and every position very well with them. if i had to make a prediction right now for the finals itd be cavs vs nuggs

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 05:43 PM
You resort to the "I'm rubber your glue" comeback while completely avoiding a productive response to my post.

I assume you get it now that I made it clear and you just wanted to rant? Do you understand something may be a slight upgrade all while being insignificant? Please respond for clarity so we can move on...

What was so productive about your response?? Saying i'm "acting stupid"....I've already explained to you why it isn't slight and insignificant, from first hand perspective, and you did nothing to convince me otherwise, yet you ignored and "ACT EVEN MORE STUPID" then anybody can.

You havent made anything clear...And after the nuggets game, i'll shoot your opinion down with statistics. Fix it up.

AI4MVP
02-28-2010, 05:45 PM
the denver nuggets are the toughest "bad boy" team in the league. they have the perfect combiniation of players, with chauncey billups as the brain at the top.

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 05:54 PM
You're an idiot.

Those four perimeter players are capable of guarding Melo one-on-one while doing a good job WITHOUT the help of other teammates (a la Kobe's **** game, 9-23).

Denver, on the other hand, can not guard Dirk one-on-one so they will be forced to double team.

Do you understand yet or do I need to draw you a picture?

Your the idiot you damn homer. All hell as broken loose on PSD. I swear all you Mavs fans are jumping up and down the past couple of days. It's been less than 10 god damn games and your already proclaiming them champions.

And no their not. Melo can score on will on any of those defeners. If you think that Melo will not require doubles, but Dirk will, you are ********. Denver can throw both Martin and Anderson on the block and Melo is capable of guarding him on the high post.

Be as happy as you want, the Mavs did nothing but choke the whole decade, with a PRIME Dirik. What the hell do you expect them to do now with an old Kidd, Terry, Marion, Haywood, and Dirk? Nothing.

Unrequited
02-28-2010, 06:06 PM
Suns!

tp13baby
02-28-2010, 06:10 PM
yeah Mavs fans come on.....

st3voness
02-28-2010, 06:36 PM
Your the idiot you damn homer. All hell as broken loose on PSD. I swear all you Mavs fans are jumping up and down the past couple of days. It's been less than 10 god damn games and your already proclaiming them champions.

And no their not. Melo can score on will on any of those defeners. If you think that Melo will not require doubles, but Dirk will, you are ********. Denver can throw both Martin and Anderson on the block and Melo is capable of guarding him on the high post.

Be as happy as you want, the Mavs did nothing but choke the whole decade, with a PRIME Dirik. What the hell do you expect them to do now with an old Kidd, Terry, Marion, Haywood, and Dirk? Nothing.

Melo will score on those defenders, but Kobe can't?

Okay. I guess you're ready to admit Melo is better than Kobe.

ElMarroAfamado
02-28-2010, 06:37 PM
no

ldc62
02-28-2010, 06:38 PM
In the east it will be Cavs or Hawks.
West it is Mavs or Nuggets.

Of course I don't wanna count out the Lakers, but they don't look unstoppable this year.

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 07:20 PM
Melo will score on those defenders, but Kobe can't?

Okay. I guess you're ready to admit Melo is better than Kobe.

You guys haven't even played the nuggets with your current team, stop making unsubstantiated claims. The nuggets proved consistently over the season that they are challengers to the laker's throne. Dallas, in my opinion, has not shown that.

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 07:32 PM
Melo will score on those defenders, but Kobe can't?

Okay. I guess you're ready to admit Melo is better than Kobe.

Ever heard of an off night? I can guarantee that both Kobe and Melo would torch the Dallas perimeter defenders in a series.

You ready to admit that Dallas is done?

drobe86
02-28-2010, 07:51 PM
You guys haven't even played the nuggets with your current team, stop making unsubstantiated claims. The nuggets proved consistently over the season that they are challengers to the laker's throne. Dallas, in my opinion, has not shown that.

Right so what else do we have to do? I mean we did whoop them without our 2nd best player and played 4 on 5 the whole night. Add that to the fact that we only had 8 healthy bodies. Are you serious or are you just kidding?

drobe86
02-28-2010, 07:55 PM
Your the idiot you damn homer. All hell as broken loose on PSD. I swear all you Mavs fans are jumping up and down the past couple of days. It's been less than 10 god damn games and your already proclaiming them champions.

And no their not. Melo can score on will on any of those defeners. If you think that Melo will not require doubles, but Dirk will, you are ********. Denver can throw both Martin and Anderson on the block and Melo is capable of guarding him on the high post.

Be as happy as you want, the Mavs did nothing but choke the whole decade, with a PRIME Dirik. What the hell do you expect them to do now with an old Kidd, Terry, Marion, Haywood, and Dirk? Nothing.

And your whole paragraph you wrote made any sense or means anything? No.... Kidd's old yet he's having his best statistical season of his career in every category except points? Jet just torched LA for 31. Marion is a solid perimeter defender and he'll give you 12-14. Haywood just dominated Bynum for 4 qtrs. And Dirk is killing people softly night in and night out. And you didn't even bother to mention the Holy Caron. You're an idiot and LA's best days are behind them. We showed you that less than a week ago.

Daze9900
02-28-2010, 07:57 PM
As a Laker fan I think this is the only team that could knock out LA in the West. That being said, Lakers always play well against them in the playoffs, and i can just about guarantee they'll be a bunch of techs, and skirmishes throughout the series. However, if Denver made the finals do you guys think they could beat Cleveland, cause i think they matchup very well against them.

You'd better be taking the Mavs seriously as well.

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 08:04 PM
And your whole paragraph you wrote made any sense or means anything? No.... Kidd's old yet he's having his best statistical season of his career in every category except points? Jet just torched LA for 31. Marion is a solid perimeter defender and he'll give you 12-14. Haywood just dominated Bynum for 4 qtrs. And Dirk is killing people softly night in and night out. And you didn't even bother to mention the Holy Caron. You're an idiot and LA's best days are behind them. We showed you that less than a week ago.

Do you want to make a sig bet? Because thats the stupidest thing I've heard this whole season. Lets see if you can man up and do the bet. If Mavs go the Finals, I will never post on this site again. Because the only way the Mavs go farther is if they beat the Lakers in the WCF, which is reserved for the Nuggets and Lakers. If you lose, you have to rock a line in your sig by me. Deal?

ragee
02-28-2010, 08:10 PM
Kidd has not won anything. Chauncey is twice the basketball player as Kidd.

So are you saying Fisher is so much better than Kidd because he has won championships and Kidd has not? I actually think Billups is being underrated by a lot of people but to say that he is twice the basketball player Kidd is is way out of line... Where did that come from anyway? Because he scores more points?!!! It is not ust about scoring you know...

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 08:19 PM
Your the idiot you damn homer. All hell as broken loose on PSD. I swear all you Mavs fans are jumping up and down the past couple of days. It's been less than 10 god damn games and your already proclaiming them champions.

And no their not. Melo can score on will on any of those defeners. If you think that Melo will not require doubles, but Dirk will, you are ********. Denver can throw both Martin and Anderson on the block and Melo is capable of guarding him on the high post.

Be as happy as you want, the Mavs did nothing but choke the whole decade, with a PRIME Dirik. What the hell do you expect them to do now with an old Kidd, Terry, Marion, Haywood, and Dirk? Nothing.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSFRABA.... :laugh:

ragee
02-28-2010, 08:21 PM
The year Billups won they didn't have Antonio and Tayshaun didn't even start till about the playoffs Chauncey carried his team that year Chauncey is the reason why Rip is highly thought of Rip can only play off the pass he has no dribble skills he just runs and shoots and how many times did they have to fill the void for Sheed cause he was in foul trouble and I like how when you name the players Kidd played with you named them peole why not name Carter and Jefferson 2 rlly good players right there I'm not trying to take anything away from Kidd though I love Kidd I think he is best rebound/defender pg in the game but Billups offense is better and I like his decision making skills a lot more and both are great at leadership they are both great players thats all people need to say about them who cares which one is better they are both amazing players and both deserve the hof

The Pistons are the one that really introduced teamwork in the NBA in my opinion... They were the one that won the championship by teamwork and not by relying on one or two people... That being said, everyone on the roster played an important part... Big Bum (Big Ben back then) was the heart and soul of the defense and the one that controlled the glass... Sheed was the one that provides the holes in the defense beacuse he can do a little bit of everything and shoot anywhere in the court that his defender has to cover him everytime... Prince was the one responsible for Kobe... Rip was a great off the ball player.. Please don't make it sound like that what he is doing is not a good thing because he is one of the best in this... It is not as easy as it looks... Finally, Billups was the facilitator and the one making the big shots... With all that being said, people should stop saying Billups was the one responsible for the championship because it was a collective effort and I do believe if you take one player off that team, the result would be much different...

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 08:21 PM
You guys haven't even played the nuggets with your current team, stop making unsubstantiated claims. The nuggets proved consistently over the season that they are challengers to the laker's throne. Dallas, in my opinion, has not shown that.

I think a MUCH stronger case can be made for the Rockets (who are not even a playoff team at that) is a team that can give the Lakers more trouble than the Lakers. The Mavericks, since the trade, has a small case as it was only 1 game.

Last post-season:
Lakers 4, Nuggets 2
Lakers 4, Rockets 3 (No Yao/TMac)

2 post-seasons ago:
Lakers 4, Nuggets 0

See... my using the Nuggets post-season record against the Lakers is pretty stupid because they have a different roster... JUST LIKE THE MAVERICKS AFTER THE TRADE DEADLINE!! :laugh:

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 08:26 PM
So are you saying Fisher is so much better than Kidd because he has won championships and Kidd has not? I actually think Billups is being underrated by a lot of people but to say that he is twice the basketball player Kidd is is way out of line... Where did that come from anyway? Because he scores more points?!!! It is not ust about scoring you know...

x9999999999999999999999
I just creamed my pants that someone else understands that.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 08:27 PM
The Pistons are the one that really introduced teamwork in the NBA in my opinion... They were the one that won the championship by teamwork and not by relying on one or two people... That being said, everyone on the roster played an important part... Big Bum (Big Ben back then) was the heart and sole of the defense and the one that controlled the glass... Sheed was the one that provides the holes in the defense beacuse he can do a little bit of everything and shoot anywhere in the court that his defender has to cover him everytime... Prince was the one responsible for Kobe... Rip was a great off the ball player.. Please don't make it sound like that what he is doing is not a good thing because he is one of the best in this... It is not as easy as it looks... Finally, Billups was the facilitator and the one making the big shots... With all that being said, people should stop saying Billups was the one responsible for the championship because it was a collective effort and I do believe if you take one player off that team, the result would be much different...

Sums it up pretty much.

Fireworld
02-28-2010, 08:28 PM
I think Denver has the biggest chance at beating the Lakers. And it won't be an upset if they do. They are contenders. HCA probably won't even make a difference in this series.

iggypop123
02-28-2010, 08:32 PM
The Pistons are the one that really introduced teamwork in the NBA in my opinion... They were the one that won the championship by teamwork and not by relying on one or two people... That being said, everyone on the roster played an important part... Big Bum (Big Ben back then) was the heart and sole of the defense and the one that controlled the glass... Sheed was the one that provides the holes in the defense beacuse he can do a little bit of everything and shoot anywhere in the court that his defender has to cover him everytime... Prince was the one responsible for Kobe... Rip was a great off the ball player.. Please don't make it sound like that what he is doing is not a good thing because he is one of the best in this... It is not as easy as it looks... Finally, Billups was the facilitator and the one making the big shots... With all that being said, people should stop saying Billups was the one responsible for the championship because it was a collective effort and I do believe if you take one player off that team, the result would be much different...

it kind of helped that wade was playing hurt and malone was so crippled that they had to use mevdevenko and walton at PF

ragee
02-28-2010, 08:53 PM
You guys haven't even played the nuggets with your current team, stop making unsubstantiated claims. The nuggets proved consistently over the season that they are challengers to the laker's throne. Dallas, in my opinion, has not shown that.

How is that again? By having the 2nd best record? Did you know the Mavs are just one game behind you? Or maybe you are talking about you guys beating the Lakers? Well, the Lakers beat you guys twice already... You only beat them once... The Mavs have evened it up by beating them the last time... So how in the world would you say that the Nuggets have proved consistently that they are challengers in the Lakers' throne and the Mavs have not?

Meth
02-28-2010, 08:55 PM
Interwebs drama!

HoopsDrive
02-28-2010, 09:04 PM
I think a MUCH stronger case can be made for the Rockets (who are not even a playoff team at that) is a team that can give the Lakers more trouble than the Lakers. The Mavericks, since the trade, has a small case as it was only 1 game.

Last post-season:
Lakers 4, Nuggets 2
Lakers 4, Rockets 3 (No Yao/TMac)

2 post-seasons ago:
Lakers 4, Nuggets 0

See... my using the Nuggets post-season record against the Lakers is pretty stupid because they have a different roster... JUST LIKE THE MAVERICKS AFTER THE TRADE DEADLINE!! :laugh:

:facepalm:

airraptor8
02-28-2010, 09:18 PM
How is that again? By having the 2nd best record? Did you know the Mavs are just one game behind you? Or maybe you are talking about you guys beating the Lakers? Well, the Lakers beat you guys twice already... You only beat them once... The Mavs have evened it up by beating them the last time... So how in the world would you say that the Nuggets have proved consistently that they are challengers in the Lakers' throne and the Mavs have not?


What is with this "you"? Have I even said I was a nuggets fan? The Mavs are third in the west, fine, but they haven't shown the consistency that the nuggets have. The nuggets have shown again and again this season that they can beat good teams, consistently. Cavs, Boston, Lakers, etc. The Mavs have not done a good as job as the Nuggets in showing that.

Also, assuming you believe I am a nuggets fan, then get your facts straight. The nuggets have beaten the lakers twice, not the other way around. Its not just about them beating the lakers. Its about them being undefeated against the cavs, and having one of the best records against playoff bound teams.

As a lakers fan, the Nuggets have been our primary threat this whole season, a stretch of 6 games is not going to change my mind so quickly.

skratcher
02-28-2010, 09:24 PM
What is with this "you"? Have I even said I was a nuggets fan? The Mavs are third in the west, fine, but they haven't shown the consistency that the nuggets have. The nuggets have shown again and again this season that they can beat good teams, consistently. Cavs, Boston, Lakers, etc. The Mavs have not done a good as job as the Nuggets in showing that.

Also, assuming you believe I am a nuggets fan, then get your facts straight. The nuggets have beaten the lakers twice, not the other way around. Its not just about them beating the lakers. Its about them being undefeated against the cavs, and having one of the best records against playoff bound teams.

As a lakers fan, the Nuggets have been our primary threat this whole season, a stretch of 6 games is not going to change my mind so quickly.

I thought you were a Raptors fan.:D

Sorry.

DenButsu
02-28-2010, 09:46 PM
Please explain in detail why you think so. And then later (because I have to go now), I will explain to you in detail exactly why you're wrong.Umm... your Nugget buddy already asked me and I already answered it. Don't be lazy... go back and look if you're interested.

Okay, here are, inasmuch as I can tell, all of your posts in this thread on the subject:


Their new acquisitions is a slight, if at all, upgrade over their last year's team.


They are pretty insignificant but an upgrade nonetheless.


To say something is a slight upgrade COULD very well mean it's insignificant. If you gain .0005 lbs in the course of 5 years, you DO weigh more but it is pretty insignificant.


Do you understand something may be a slight upgrade all while being insignificant?


If you actually consider that to be a detailed argument why the upgrades of Afflalo and Lawson over Jones and Carter are "insignificant", then allow me to show you my detailed topographical map of the earth:


.



Come on, man. You did not give one basketball example supporting your case. You did not point to a single stat, or a single piece of real evidence.

So until you prove otherwise, I'm just going to dismiss your point and assume you are either unwilling or unable to back it up. I'm guessing it's more likely the latter, but I'd be happy to see you actually present a solid case and prove me wrong.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 09:54 PM
:facepalm:

Indeed, but you know what I meant! :P

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 09:58 PM
The nuggets have shown again and again this season that they can beat good teams, consistently. Cavs, Boston, Lakers, etc. The Mavs have not done a good as job as the Nuggets in showing that.



:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Mavs v Lakers: 2-2
Mavs v Cavs : 1-1
Mavs v Boston: 1-0
Mavs v Nuggets: 1-1
Mavs v Magic: 2-0
Mavs v Atlanta: 1-1

Since the trade they are 3-0 with the teams mentioned above.

What the f--- do they have to do to show it?!
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

ragee
02-28-2010, 09:59 PM
What is with this "you"? Have I even said I was a nuggets fan? The Mavs are third in the west, fine, but they haven't shown the consistency that the nuggets have. The nuggets have shown again and again this season that they can beat good teams, consistently. Cavs, Boston, Lakers, etc. The Mavs have not done a good as job as the Nuggets in showing that.

Also, assuming you believe I am a nuggets fan, then get your facts straight. The nuggets have beaten the lakers twice, not the other way around. Its not just about them beating the lakers. Its about them being undefeated against the cavs, and having one of the best records against playoff bound teams.

As a lakers fan, the Nuggets have been our primary threat this whole season, a stretch of 6 games is not going to change my mind so quickly.

Oh yeah... I got it the other way around... My bad... So my argument on beating "your" Lakers is out already... Hahaha...

A stretch of 6 games on good teams doesn't say anything but beating the Cavs twice is something?! Come on! The Mavs have beaten the teams the Nuggets have beaten... I don't know what you are saying about the consistency thing... The Nuggets have beaten good teams like the Lakers, the Celts, and the Cavs? Guess what? So did the Mavs... The only thing you have is the unbeaten record against the Cavs...

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 10:01 PM
Okay, here are, inasmuch as I can tell, all of your posts in this thread on the subject:










If you actually consider that to be a detailed argument why the upgrades of Afflalo and Lawson over Jones and Carter are "insignificant", then allow me to show you my detailed topographical map of the earth:


.



Come on, man. You did not give one basketball example supporting your case. You did not point to a single stat, or a single piece of real evidence.

So until you prove otherwise, I'm just going to dismiss your point and assume you are either unwilling or unable to back it up. I'm guessing it's more likely the latter, but I'd be happy to see you actually present a solid case and prove me wrong.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Keep looking ... lazy man :P! I detailed each player (Arron/Jones and Carter/Lawson)

So until you stop being lazy and keep searching for the post where I detailed each individual player and gave the overall upgrade significance, you are not allowed to continue in this discussion of overall upgrade significance (at least not with me).

bahama0811
02-28-2010, 10:02 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Keep looking ... lazy man :P! I detailed each player (Arron/Jones and Carter/Lawson)

Noob, haha, that's funny. Are you looking for a ban?

*damn, he edited the post*

ko8e24
02-28-2010, 10:03 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Keep looking ... noob :P! I detailed each player (Arron/Jones and Carter/Lawson)

lol, a noob (who joined PSD this month) calling one of the greatest MODS here on PSD, who's been a PSD member for a while now a noob.

Irony at it's finest

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 10:06 PM
lol, a noob (who joined PSD this month) calling one of the greatest MODS here on PSD, who's been a PSD member for a while now a noob.

Irony at it's finest

You guys are fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hit "submit" pretty damn fast then "edit." I realize you guys take things so seriously here. I'm a gamer, i say n00b all the time. :D It's a term of endearment ;).

skratcher
02-28-2010, 10:06 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Mavs v Lakers: 2-2
Mavs v Cavs : 1-1
Mavs v Boston: 1-0
Mavs v Nuggets: 1-1
Mavs v Magic: 2-0
Mavs v Atlanta: 1-1

Since the trade they are 3-0 with the teams mentioned above.

What the f--- do they have to do to show it?!
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Hey man, this will just respond to this post. I don't want to argue about this because we are not yet in the postseason.

Nuggets v Lakers: 2-1
Nuggets v Cavs : 2-0
Nuggets v Boston: 1-0
Nuggets v Mavs: 1-1
Nuggets v Magic: 1-0
Nuggets v Atlanta: 1-1

We can't really see the significance oh these games, though, until the postseason. So the Mavs and Nuggets are pretty much both in the running to win it all.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 10:11 PM
Hey man, this will just respond to this post. I don't want to argue about this because we are not yet in the postseason.

Nuggets v Lakers: 2-1
Nuggets v Cavs : 2-0
Nuggets v Boston: 1-0
Nuggets v Mavs: 1-1
Nuggets v Magic: 1-0
Nuggets v Atlanta: 1-1

Indeed, the Mavs have had a more challenging schedule thus far. Regardless, the Nuggets have a pretty sick record against these elite teams, but the person said the Mavericks haven't done anything and are have not shown consistency against the elite teams in the west as good as the Nuggets. Which is obviously a bogus statement. Not saying either record is better than the other, I'm just saying his argument was weaksauce.

ragee
02-28-2010, 10:14 PM
Hey man, this will just respond to this post. I don't want to argue about this because we are not yet in the postseason.

Nuggets v Lakers: 2-1
Nuggets v Cavs : 2-0
Nuggets v Boston: 1-0
Nuggets v Mavs: 1-1
Nuggets v Magic: 1-0
Nuggets v Atlanta: 1-1

We can't really see the significance oh these games, though, until the postseason. So the Mavs and Nuggets are pretty much both in the running to win it all.

Exactly! We were just defending the Mavs because some guy here keeps saying that the Nuggets have proven all season long that they are contenders and the Mavs have not!

MacFitz92
02-28-2010, 10:24 PM
I dont see how the Nuggets are a darkhorse...

But yea they "could" win it. I truly think the champions this year are going to be the Lakers or the Mavs. The East is just too damn weak.

tredigs
02-28-2010, 10:42 PM
I dont see how the Nuggets are a darkhorse...

But yea they "could" win it. I truly think the champions this year are going to be the Lakers or the Mavs. The East is just too damn weak.

The Cavs and Magic are far from weak. And that is all that matters. If the Magic can find a way to truly gel going into the postseason, and Vince Carter plays like he has been in February then they will be tough as hell to beat.

And you can't exactly count out the team who has one of the best players the NBA has ever seen playing in his prime. Especially when they have the best record in the NBA and have handled the Lakers in both their contests.

And to the focus, yeah the Nuggets have a legit shot. I would've liked to see how that Lakers/Nuggets game went down today if the ref didn't knock out Melo the most ridiculous 6th foul I have seen in a while. That ref should be fined.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 10:54 PM
The Cavs and Magic are far from weak. And that is all that matters. If the Magic can find a way to truly gel going into the postseason, and Vince Carter plays like he has been in February then they will be tough as hell to beat.

And you can't exactly count out the team who has one of the best players the NBA has ever seen playing in his prime. Especially when they have the best record in the NBA and have handled the Lakers in both their contests.

And to the focus, yeah the Nuggets have a legit shot. I would've liked to see how that Lakers/Nuggets game went down today if the ref didn't knock out Melo the most ridiculous 6th foul I have seen in a while. That ref should be fined.

Only teams that scare me are the Lakers and Cavs. I feel pretty comfortable with any other team in a 7 game series.

HoopsDrive
02-28-2010, 10:59 PM
Indeed, but you know what I meant! :P

Yea, it was just funny how it sounded :D

st3voness
02-28-2010, 11:43 PM
Ever heard of an off night? I can guarantee that both Kobe and Melo would torch the Dallas perimeter defenders in a series.

You ready to admit that Dallas is done?

Kobe hasn't played well against Dallas all season.

They posted his averages in the 2-2 season series and it was like 3-11 3P%, 40% FG, and only like 16 points. Awful.

iggypop123
02-28-2010, 11:50 PM
Kobe hasn't played well against Dallas all season.

They posted his averages in the 2-2 season series and it was like 3-11 3P%, 40% FG, and only like 16 points. Awful.

it woudl be fair to post the circumstances of those numbers. the first 2 games are the first place to look at. game 1 he flat out sucked, game 2 the lakers raped the mavs so bad he didnt do anything at all, third game his back was done, he passed the ball to bynum all the time , game 4 was a back to back which made his ankle feel it.

Go_NUGGETS
02-28-2010, 11:50 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Keep looking ... lazy man :P! I detailed each player (Arron/Jones and Carter/Lawson)

So until you stop being lazy and keep searching for the post where I detailed each individual player and gave the overall upgrade significance, you are not allowed to continue in this discussion of overall upgrade significance (at least not with me).

You didnt detail nothing as far as i'm concerned...Just half assed opinion pretty much. No factual statements to prove otherwise.

st3voness
02-28-2010, 11:52 PM
it woudl be fair to post the circumstances of those numbers. the first 2 games are the first place to look at. game 1 he flat out sucked, game 2 the lakers raped the mavs so bad he didnt do anything at all, third game his back was done, he passed the ball to bynum all the time , game 4 was a back to back which made his ankle feel it.

I'll give him the third game, but please stop with the excuses about back-to-backs in game four.

iggypop123
02-28-2010, 11:56 PM
I'll give him the third game, but please stop with the excuses about back-to-backs in game four.

given his it was his first game in 18 days and it was a back to back i just pointed it out. i only refernce it because when i watched the game it looked like he went from nate robinson hops to adam morrison hops. it was strange

Mavrix
03-01-2010, 12:03 AM
After tonight's game Dallas will be just half a game behind the Nuggets for the 2nd seed. Dallas has an EXTREMELY favorable sched coming up so I expect them to easily slide up and stay put at 2nd with the way they're playing.

Jason5Kidd5
03-01-2010, 02:23 AM
You didnt detail nothing as far as i'm concerned...Just half assed opinion pretty much. No factual statements to prove otherwise.

:facepalm:
So DenButtsu has you fighting his battles now? wtf?

I actually stated my opinions AS WELL as facts... hence, I articulated why the upgrade was slight and insignificant.

Try again. I'm surprised you guys still can't find the post. :laugh:

airraptor8
03-01-2010, 04:18 AM
Indeed, the Mavs have had a more challenging schedule thus far. Regardless, the Nuggets have a pretty sick record against these elite teams, but the person said the Mavericks haven't done anything and are have not shown consistency against the elite teams in the west as good as the Nuggets. Which is obviously a bogus statement. Not saying either record is better than the other, I'm just saying his argument was weaksauce.

The only thing that is weaksauce is your reading ability. I never said the Mavs were not impressive. I said they were not as impressive as the Nuggets. Judging from their respective records, Denver has a better record against the elite teams. Don't be blinded by your inability to read and your homerism.

airraptor8
03-01-2010, 04:23 AM
Oh yeah... I got it the other way around... My bad... So my argument on beating "your" Lakers is out already... Hahaha...

A stretch of 6 games on good teams doesn't say anything but beating the Cavs twice is something?! Come on! The Mavs have beaten the teams the Nuggets have beaten... I don't know what you are saying about the consistency thing... The Nuggets have beaten good teams like the Lakers, the Celts, and the Cavs? Guess what? So did the Mavs... The only thing you have is the unbeaten record against the Cavs...

Before the Caron/Stevenson/Haywood trade, most people placed Dallas behind Denver and LA. I give you that they beat some great teams in the last 6 games. However, this current Mavs team's performance is not as indicative of what will happen in the playoffs when compared with the whole season of the Nuggets. Why can't you see the logic in that argument. I am no way bashing the Mavs. Nor am I saying that they have no chance. But Mav fans are simply asking other observers and fans to say that Dallas is now better than the Nuggets over a six game sample and then calling us stupid when we point out its only been six games.

Mavrix
03-01-2010, 04:26 AM
Before the Caron/Stevenson/Haywood trade, most people place Dallas behind Denver and LA. I give you that they beat some great teams in the last 6 games. However, this current Mavs team's performance is not as indicative of what will happen in the playoffs as the whole season as a sample of how the Nuggets will do. Why can't you see the logic in that argument. I am no one way bashing the Mavs. Nor am I saying that they have no chance. But Mav fans are simply asking other observers and fans to say that Dallas is now better than Nuggets over a six game sample and then calling us stupid when we point out its only been six games.

Seven.

airraptor8
03-01-2010, 04:28 AM
Seven.

Was that really necessary 6, 7, still too small of a sample compared to the whole season for the Nuggets. Please contribute something new next time you post please.

Mavrix
03-01-2010, 04:30 AM
Was that really necessary 6, 7, still too small of a sample compared to the whole season for the Nuggets. Please contribute something new next time you post please.

Yes it was. Stop trying to act all intelectual on a sporting forum. Those so called Nuggets are only half a game ahead of Dallas as of now.

airraptor8
03-01-2010, 04:31 AM
Yes it was. Stop trying to act all intelectual on a sporting forum. Those so called Nuggets are only half a game ahead of Dallas as of now.

What's wrong with acting intellectual. I call out things that I think are wrong. Would you rather I act like a homer?

If that's the case, Dallas is still worse than Denver cause MELO>DIRK

Mavrix
03-01-2010, 04:33 AM
What's wrong with acting intellectual. I call out things that I think are wrong. Would you rather I act like a homer?

If that's the case, Dallas is still worse than Denver cause MELO>DIRK

You're acting like one, you're definately not posting like one.

So you're a Nuggets fan now? That makes sense.

airraptor8
03-01-2010, 04:36 AM
You're acting like one, you're definately not posting like one.

So you're a Nuggets fan now? That makes sense.

I'm a lakers fan at heart, but that doens't mean I don't call out what I perceive as untrue. What's so wrong with that?

Mavrix
03-01-2010, 04:39 AM
I'm a lakers fan at heart, but that doens't mean I don't call out what I perceive as untrue. What's so wrong with that?

Ha.

airraptor8
03-01-2010, 04:48 AM
Ha.

...i'm glad people think you are a homer

Chronz
03-01-2010, 04:51 AM
Only way the Nuggs get past LA is if Ty Lawson plays great. Hes their biggest mismatch against them

Mavrix
03-01-2010, 05:03 AM
...i'm glad people think you are a homer

I'm glad you care. :eyebrow:

Aust
03-01-2010, 06:56 AM
Nuggets haven't been able to beat LA in a series, and I doubt they will this or next season. We'll repeat, and snag some goodies during the off-season to ensure a three-peat. If the Thuggets were a little more humble and a little less cocky, karma might not hit them as hard(of course signing a well-known big man wouldn't hurt either)

ko8e24
03-01-2010, 06:58 AM
I honestly truly feel that the Mavs and Nuggets (I dunno who's gonna end up 2nd or 3rd) are gonna face each other in the 2nd rd, and I pick the Dallas Mavs in 6 or 7. Then it'll be Lakers vs Mavs WCF, as I predicted when they made that offseason trade in acquiring Marion. Now, I'm more convincned with the acquisitions of Butler and Haywood (and yes, Stevenson, lol)

ragee
03-01-2010, 10:12 AM
Before the Caron/Stevenson/Haywood trade, most people placed Dallas behind Denver and LA. I give you that they beat some great teams in the last 6 games. However, this current Mavs team's performance is not as indicative of what will happen in the playoffs when compared with the whole season of the Nuggets. Why can't you see the logic in that argument. I am no way bashing the Mavs. Nor am I saying that they have no chance. But Mav fans are simply asking other observers and fans to say that Dallas is now better than the Nuggets over a six game sample and then calling us stupid when we point out its only been six games.

Why are you stereotyping? Sure, some of us are really confident... I can't blame them... The Mavs are pretty good... However, as a Mavs fan, have I ever said that we are certainly better than the Nuggets?!!! I don't recall saying that... I am just defending my team from all your accusations... You are the one degrading them... If 6 games is too early to tell how strong our team is... Isn't it more inappropriate to degrade our team based on that? It is not like we were losing a lot of games before the Butler and Haywood trade...

You are not bashing them and not saying we don't have a chance?


The nuggets proved consistently over the season that they are challengers to the laker's throne. Dallas, in my opinion, has not shown that


The Mavs are third in the west, fine, but they haven't shown the consistency that the nuggets have

Who said those statements then? Without Butler and Haywood, we were already winning a lot of games against good teams and proving to the league that just like the Nuggets, we are a contending team... Again, what consistency are you talking about? The perfect record against the Cavs?! LMAO

airraptor8
03-01-2010, 11:56 AM
Why are you stereotyping? Sure, some of us are really confident... I can't blame them... The Mavs are pretty good... However, as a Mavs fan, have I ever said that we are certainly better than the Nuggets?!!! I don't recall saying that... I am just defending my team from all your accusations... You are the one degrading them... If 6 games is too early to tell how strong our team is... Isn't it more inappropriate to degrade our team based on that? It is not like we were losing a lot of games before the Butler and Haywood trade...

You are not bashing them and not saying we don't have a chance?





Who said those statements then? Without Butler and Haywood, we were already winning a lot of games against good teams and proving to the league that just like the Nuggets, we are a contending team... Again, what consistency are you talking about? The perfect record against the Cavs?! LMAO

I really don't see how its so hard to see what I'm saying. You keep saying the mavs are a good team. Yes, I agree with you, but lets break it down a little bit more.

Before the trade, most people ranked Dallas behind the Nuggets and Lakers (and Spurs before they fell off). After the trade, the Mavs have looked great, fine, but all I'm saying is after 7 games, it is not enough for me, as well as the many others in this thread (and the other one) to rank them above the nuggets just yet. I conceded to Marvix that if Dallas goes on to finish the season with a better record than the Nuggets or even the Lakers, I will gladly concede that they are the favorites to come out of the West. However, after 7 games, its hard to make that jump.

Having said that, yes, I can see how my statements can be interpreted as bashing. However, what I was meaning to say was that I feel the nuggets are more consistent than from what we have seen throughout the season. They have fewer losses against the best contending teams. Others have made the argument that they have had more time together, and have upgraded several key spots in their rotation. I think both points are extremely valid.

ragee
03-02-2010, 07:20 AM
I really don't see how its so hard to see what I'm saying. You keep saying the mavs are a good team. Yes, I agree with you, but lets break it down a little bit more.

Before the trade, most people ranked Dallas behind the Nuggets and Lakers (and Spurs before they fell off). After the trade, the Mavs have looked great, fine, but all I'm saying is after 7 games, it is not enough for me, as well as the many others in this thread (and the other one) to rank them above the nuggets just yet. I conceded to Marvix that if Dallas goes on to finish the season with a better record than the Nuggets or even the Lakers, I will gladly concede that they are the favorites to come out of the West. However, after 7 games, its hard to make that jump.

Having said that, yes, I can see how my statements can be interpreted as bashing. However, what I was meaning to say was that I feel the nuggets are more consistent than from what we have seen throughout the season. They have fewer losses against the best contending teams. Others have made the argument that they have had more time together, and have upgraded several key spots in their rotation. I think both points are extremely valid.

I really don't see how its so hard to see what I'm saying either! Have I ever said that the Mavericks are better than the Lakers or the Nuggets? All I am saying is stop dissing them and act like your team or the Nuggets are way superior than the Mavs because there is no fact to support that... We are legit and I am sure that we can give either the Lakers and the Nuggets a hard time in the playoffs! Again, I am not saying we are the best because the Mavs have yet to prove that... Let us just see what happens in the playoffs...

Having said that, I still don't get where you get your defense from... You keep saying the nuggets are more CONSISTENT than the Mavs and the Mavs have yet to prove they are legit contenders... Again, what do you mean by consistent? the Nuggets sweeping the Cavs? PPPPPLEEEEASE! Now you are saying they have fewer losses on contending teams? How many games exactly? 2? 3? WOW... Is that it? You say a 6 then 7, now 8 straight wins does not count but a two game difference separates the Nuggets from the Mavs? :facepalm: And please don't just look at our winning streak... Before that and before the trade, we are already doing well...

You are a Laker fan right? What were you saying when Gasol came to the Lakers? I bet it is the same thing my fellow Mavs fans are saying now.... So cut them some slack... They know our team better than you and we all know that Haywood and Butler really filled the holes that we have been trying to fill for a couple of years now...

I am outta here! I believe there is nothing more that I can say that can change your biased opinion! See you in the playoffs!:cool:

fadedmario
03-03-2010, 02:36 PM
You're about as dumb as the picture looks in your sig. Billups was playing on teams with all star players. Richard Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio Mcdyess, Tayshawn Prince. Kidd was playing with the likes of Kerry Kittles, Kenyon Martin, Jayson Williams (whos now serving a prison sentence might i add) Are you serious? Are you really that dumb and can't comprehend the fact that you actually need a decent supporting cast?

My two year old son has a better jumpshot than Jason Kidd. And yeah i'm that dumb ********. get a life dork.

fadedmario
03-03-2010, 02:39 PM
And how can you like billups decision making skills more when he averages a full 3+ assists less for his career than Kidd? Rebounding? Steals? Defense? Billups is better than kidd in one area and that's scoring. And you are calling Billups a HOF? When he spent 6 years being a bum? OK if you say so....

Sounds like you think Kidd's kinda cute. Right?

DenButsu
03-03-2010, 08:59 PM
Kids in this thread don't know how to play, so I'm taking the toys ang going home.