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View Full Version : Kidd runs into Mike Woodson on Purpose because Woodson was too far out on the court.



Gibby23
02-27-2010, 05:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kquAEihYS0M

Smart play. Woodson got a tech in a game the Hawks were winning by 2 with 1:40 left in the game. They ended up losing.

HoopsDrive
02-27-2010, 05:11 PM
Gonna go cliche here...

What a crafty veteran...

Mavrix
02-27-2010, 05:13 PM
Thread was already made yesterday. Mike Woodson didn't need to be that far out on the court in the middle of a fast break play.

SaimoNETS
02-27-2010, 05:13 PM
That was stupid. It looked like Kidd initiated the contact.

td0tsfinest
02-27-2010, 05:15 PM
I don't know why Woodson was out that far with the ball on their side of the court

Gibby23
02-27-2010, 05:20 PM
That was stupid. It looked like Kidd initiated the contact.

How was that stupid? The coaches have a certain area that they are suopposed to stand in and can't be that far out. Very smart play.

$ NyC $
02-27-2010, 05:31 PM
Honestly. I don't think it should have been a technical BUT it was extremely smart of Kidd to initiate that contact and get the call. Woodson shouldn't have even been out that much during a fast break. His team problem wanted to beat him badly after that play. Defensive Lapse my the coach :facepalm: haha

iggypop123
02-27-2010, 05:42 PM
i thought it was cheap of kidd to do but smart.

Raph12
02-27-2010, 06:01 PM
Just an intelligent play by a veteran PG.

ldc62
02-27-2010, 07:40 PM
That was stupid. It looked like Kidd initiated the contact.
:facepalm:
Yea that was the point... Kidd saw he was above the line so he created contact.

Gibby
02-27-2010, 08:01 PM
i thought Woodson got off the court when Kidd made the contact. I think Kidd's arm extended out of bounds where woodson was standing. Did anyone else see it like that?

dtmagnet
02-27-2010, 08:11 PM
Damn smart play by Kidd.

Storch
02-27-2010, 08:15 PM
Kidd = Smart

Woodson = idiot

That pretty much summarizes this thread. Good job Kidd :clap:

bigsams50
02-27-2010, 08:15 PM
Smart play by Kidd

Storch
02-27-2010, 08:16 PM
i thought Woodson got off the court when Kidd made the contact. I think Kidd's arm extended out of bounds where woodson was standing. Did anyone else see it like that?

He was still on the court and its okay for kidd to extend his arm. The coach isn't even supposed to be on the court so its okay for kidd to push him out. :clap:

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 08:38 PM
That was stupid. It looked like Kidd initiated the contact.

Take off your Brook Lopez avatar, you don't deserve to use it....

Anyways, OF COURSE KIDD INITIATED IT... wtf?!! Do you still not get it Mr. Gump?

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 08:39 PM
i thought it was cheap of kidd to do but smart.

Do you consider a player dunking over another player cheap? If not, how the ******* is this any different? It's in the rule book. It's fair and square.

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 08:40 PM
i thought Woodson got off the court when Kidd made the contact. I think Kidd's arm extended out of bounds where woodson was standing. Did anyone else see it like that?

Lets pretend he was 100% off by the time Kidd got there, it's suppose to be an auto technical foul, only refs don't ever call it. It's in the rules.

magichatnumber9
02-27-2010, 08:51 PM
Woodson was ready to go toe to toe with Kidd. Funny as hell

SaimoNETS
02-27-2010, 09:02 PM
Take off your Brook Lopez avatar, you don't deserve to use it....

Anyways, OF COURSE KIDD INITIATED IT... wtf?!! Do you still not get it Mr. Gump?

Why the **** not?
And I wasn't saying that what Kidd did was stupid. I meant the call was stupid because Kidd purposely bumped into him.

Vinny642
02-27-2010, 09:17 PM
Smart

Rahul333
02-27-2010, 09:41 PM
Honestly. I don't think it should have been a technical BUT it was extremely smart of Kidd to initiate that contact and get the call. Woodson shouldn't have even been out that much during a fast break. His team problem wanted to beat him badly after that play. Defensive Lapse my the coach :facepalm: haha

On NBA.com it says that "This is an example of a Delay of Game Violation committed by the Head Coach. Any bench personnel who enter the court and interfere with play will be assessed an unsportsmanlike technical foul. On this play, the coach contacts the player catching the ball just prior to his field goal attempt. Please note if the offensive player is in the act of shooting the basket, and the basket it successful, it would be scored as well."

The referee had to give a technical because the coach interrupted.

Watch this video: http://www.nba.com/videorulebook/category.html?cid=119

ombada
02-27-2010, 10:12 PM
Why the **** not?
And I wasn't saying that what Kidd did was stupid. I meant the call was stupid because Kidd purposely bumped into him.

but what hes saying is he bumped into him on purpose to get the call... thats the point.

Rahul333
02-27-2010, 10:22 PM
but what hes saying is he bumped into him on purpose to get the call... thats the point.

Also you can see Johnson playing Defense on Kidd (Full Court).

So Kidd took advantage of it.



Smart play by Kidd. Nice call by Ref.

JNA17
02-27-2010, 10:28 PM
genius!

Draco
02-27-2010, 11:11 PM
Why the **** not?
And I wasn't saying that what Kidd did was stupid. I meant the call was stupid because Kidd purposely bumped into him.

yeah, I thought it was cheap.. if the ref's are going to call a technical then sure, it's a smart move.. but it's cheap, along the same line as shooters that jump into defenders, or flop artists, etc.

Kakaroach
02-27-2010, 11:15 PM
It was a pretty smart play, Woodson shouldn't have been out there. But if I'm a player I'm standing up for my coach telling Kidd to sit his *** down or something.

Still, smart play and it helped em win the game.

xbrackattackx
02-27-2010, 11:31 PM
yeah, I thought it was cheap.. if the ref's are going to call a technical then sure, it's a smart move.. but it's cheap, along the same line as shooters that jump into defenders, or Anderson Varejao, etc.


Fixed.

DenButsu
02-27-2010, 11:55 PM
i thought Woodson got off the court when Kidd made the contact. I think Kidd's arm extended out of bounds where woodson was standing. Did anyone else see it like that?

Nice sig. That's gotta be one of the best ones I've seen. (In my non-pro opinion as someone who's not an artist or a "real" sigmaker).

------------------

On the topic - crafty move by Kidd. That was pretty heady.

DLeeicious
02-27-2010, 11:58 PM
I think that's so awesome, I like Kidd way more for seeing that! Coaches should get their *** off the court...

Statik1
02-28-2010, 12:23 AM
Heads up play. No doubt about it.

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 01:20 AM
Not a big fan of the play. The technical was harsh. If the contact wasn't initiated by Kidd, than Woodson should get the T. But Kidd clearly put his elbow out and Woodson did his bets to go back and he made it somewhat. What really puzzled me, out of all the calls in the world, the refs decide to blow the whistle on this one.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:27 AM
Not a big fan of the play. The technical was harsh. If the contact wasn't initiated by Kidd, than Woodson should get the T. But Kidd clearly put his elbow out and Woodson did his bets to go back and he made it somewhat. What really puzzled me, out of all the calls in the world, the refs decide to blow the whistle on this one.

I can guarantee if Kobe did it, you would be exalting him even more as a God. It's part of the rules, it's not harsh. Even your own coach disagrees with you. I liked what Phil had to say about coaches that don't sit down.

marlinsfan24
02-28-2010, 01:29 AM
It was a smart play. He knew the rules and used them to his advantage. And this only further proves my point that the Hawks are much better off without Woodson.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:33 AM
It was a smart play. He knew the rules and used them to his advantage. And this only further proves my point that the Hawks are much better off without Woodson.

:laugh:
I'm not sure if it's that Woodson is a moron or it's that Kidd is a genius. Perhaps both? lol

Anyways, I wouldn't be too hard the guy. Atlanta is an amazing team. I absolutely love Josh Smith's game and I wonder how much of that is a direct result of Woodson. I wouldn't know to be honest.

BlueJayFanDan
02-28-2010, 01:37 AM
Kidd is so smart. I dunno why Woodson was on the court in the first place. But Kidd won us that game and he is amazing and a future Hall of Famer. Love it!

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 01:43 AM
I can guarantee if Kobe did it, you would be exalting him even more as a God. It's part of the rules, it's not harsh. Even your own coach disagrees with you. I liked what Phil had to say about coaches that don't sit down.

:eyebrow:

Are you butthurt or something? Why are you bringing in Kobe into this? :confused:

The only issue I had was with Kidd extending his elbow to initiate the contact.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:48 AM
:eyebrow:

Are you butthurt or something? Why are you bringing in Kobe into this? :confused:

The only issue I had was with Kidd extending his elbow to initiate the contact.

Well at least you don't deny that you would glorify Kobe even more as a God if he did it. :clap:

And if you don't see my obvious point, I will clarify for you. My point is that because it was Jason Kidd (a Maverick) and NOT someone on your team (lets say Kobe, whom your user name is named after) you have a problem with it, whereas if it was Kobe who did it and was receiving praise, you wouldn't think it was "harsh."

When Kobe is being defended (or any other player), players often stick their hands in front of Kobe and Kobe will then initiate contact by hitting his arm into their arm and going up for a shot. It's an instant 2 shot foul. What Kidd did was just as legal and ethical as what Kobe does.

Clearer now?

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 01:50 AM
Kidd is so smart. I dunno why Woodson was on the court in the first place. But Kidd won us that game and he is amazing and a future Hall of Famer. Love it!

He's the smartest player in the NBA today brother! :)

Draco
02-28-2010, 01:56 AM
Not a big fan of the play. The technical was harsh. If the contact wasn't initiated by Kidd, than Woodson should get the T. But Kidd clearly put his elbow out and Woodson did his bets to go back and he made it somewhat. What really puzzled me, out of all the calls in the world, the refs decide to blow the whistle on this one.

That's what I was thinking... when I read the thread title, I thought.. wow, that's probably a pretty good heads up play.. saw the vid clip, and.. not so much.

Daze9900
02-28-2010, 01:58 AM
i thought it was cheap of kidd to do but smart.

+1

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:03 AM
+1

Can you, or anyone who thinks it is cheap, elaborate and articulate how it is "cheap?" I really want to know how it is cheap...

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 02:07 AM
Well at least you don't deny that you would glorify Kobe even more as a God if he did it. :clap:

And if you don't see my obvious point, I will clarify for you. My point is that because it was Jason Kidd (a Maverick) and NOT someone on your team (lets say Kobe, whom your user name is named after) you have a problem with it, whereas if it was Kobe who did it and was receiving praise, you wouldn't think it was "harsh."

When Kobe is being defended (or any other player), players often stick their hands in front of Kobe and Kobe will then initiate contact by hitting his arm into their arm and going up for a shot. It's an instant 2 shot foul. What Kidd did was just as legal and ethical as what Kobe does.

Clearer now?

Wow, I must be arguing with a 12 year old. Just read at your first sentence. You honestly are excited because I "deny that you would glorify Kobe even more as a God if he did it" :facepalm:

And you don't even know me. I don't care if freaking Magic Johnson did it. My issue is that I think it's harsh because Kidd was the one who initiated the contact by leaning his elbow out.

I never said what Kidd did was illegal. Coaches are ALWAYS on the floor( D'antoni, Rivers, Van Gundy, Mike Brown). Once again, like I said before, out of all the calls in the world, the refs decide to blow their whistle at this. Goes to show how great our refs are. :rolleyes:

RCarlson85
02-28-2010, 02:08 AM
That was a ***** move by kidd. He didn't just bump him to get the call, he pushed him as well. The mavs are just a bunch of *****es though, so I guess I'm not surprised.

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:09 AM
Can you, or anyone who thinks it is cheap, elaborate and articulate how it is "cheap?" I really want to know how it is cheap...

by way of analogy.. if a shooter got a defender to bite on a pump fake and the shooter jumps straight up and into the defender on the defender's way down that's a good play.. imo. If a shooter got a defender to bite on a pump fake and kicks his leg out or lunges into the defender who otherwise would not have hit the shooter on his way down.. that's a cheap play imo..

Woodson was already out of the way and Kidd went out of his way to bump into him...

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:18 AM
Wow, I must be arguing with a 12 year old. Just read at your first sentence. You honestly are excited because I "deny that you would glorify Kobe even more as a God if he did it" :facepalm:

And you don't even know me. I don't care if freaking Magic Johnson did it. My issue is that I think it's harsh because Kidd was the one who initiated the contact by leaning his elbow out.

I never said what Kidd did was illegal. Coaches are ALWAYS on the floor( D'antoni, Rivers, Van Gundy, Mike Brown). Once again, like I said before, out of all the calls in the world, the refs decide to blow their whistle at this. Goes to show how great our refs are. :rolleyes:

:laugh:
When you quote put it in context. I said you, "don't deny..." You don't have to comment, everyone, especially yourself, knows you would praise Kobe for doing it. Phil Jackson himself practically praised it in an interview.

I never said YOU said Kidd did something illegal. Yes, you think it's harsh and your only response as to why it's harsh is because refs never call it. Well, they don't call it because players aren't smart enough to do what Kidd did and run into the coach that is on the floor.

It's funny, you knock the refs BECAUSE they enforced the rules. Wtf were they suppose to do, there was a lot of contact?! :facepalm:

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:20 AM
by way of analogy.. if a shooter got a defender to bite on a pump fake and the shooter jumps straight up and into the defender on the defender's way down that's a good play.. imo. If a shooter got a defender to bite on a pump fake and kicks his leg out or lunges into the defender who otherwise would not have hit the shooter on his way down.. that's a cheap play imo..

Woodson was already out of the way and Kidd went out of his way to bump into him...

Okay, the difference between KICKING out in the air at a defender and jumping into a defender in the air is that one is an offensive foul and one is a defensive foul.

So, naturally if kicking out is seen as contact initiated by the defender, then the refs messed up. That would be cheap. But the refs didn't mess up... they made the CORRECT call. Chauncey Billups is a master at that.

Try again...

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:23 AM
Okay, the difference between KICKING out and jumping into is that one is an offensive foul and one is a defensive foul.

Try again...

And there's difference between intentionally running into a coach who shouldn't be on the floor obstructing a players path and what Kidd did.. which was clip Woodson when Woodson was already on the sideline. You asked for an explanation and you got one.

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:23 AM
So, naturally if kicking out is seen as contact initiated by the defender, then the refs messed up. That would be cheap. But the refs didn't mess up... they made the CORRECT call. Chauncey Billups is a master at that.

Try again...

So is Ben Gordon.. and I still think it's a cheap move. I didn't directly write or imply that the ref's made an incorrect call. My personal opinion is that it's bush league.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:26 AM
And there's difference between intentionally running into a coach who shouldn't be on the floor obstructing a players path and what Kidd did.. which was clip Woodson when Woodson was already on the sideline. You asked for an explanation and you got one.

Kidd running into Woodson is what MADE the refs take action. The fact that Woodson was ON the court is suppose to result in an automatic technical foul, as the rules state, couches are NOT allowed to be on the court at any time. Meaning, Kidd didn't HAVE to run into him for the refs to call the foul but he did it because it was the only way the refs WOULD call the technical foul.

It is an explanation but it's a fail one. You don't understand the rules.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:27 AM
So is Ben Gordon.. and I still think it's a cheap move. I didn't directly write or imply that the ref's made an incorrect call. My personal opinion is that it's bush league.

:laugh:
Yes, I know you and several other non-Maverick fans believe it is cheap yet no one can articulate why it is.

To me, "cheap" would imply something was illegally done with full intention and knowledge that the refs would botch the call. What Kidd did was not illegal, therefore it disqualifies it from being "cheap."

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:28 AM
Kidd running into Woodson is what MADE the refs take action. The fact that Woodson was ON the court is suppose to result in an automatic technical foul, as the rules state, couches are NOT allowed to be on the court at any time. Meaning, Kidd didn't HAVE to run into him for the refs to call the foul but he did it because it was the only way the refs WOULD call the technical foul.

It is an explanation but it's a fail one. You don't understand the rules.

I don't care what the rule is because it's rarely enforced.. just as when Billups or Gordon commit an offensive foul when they kick their leg out into a defender yet it's ruled as a defensive foul.. still bush league, imo.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:30 AM
I don't care what the rule is because it's rarely enforced.. just as when Billups or Gordon commit an offensive foul when they kick their leg out into a defender yet it's ruled as a defensive foul.. still bush league, imo.

THAT'S JUST IT BROTHER... Yes, I agree THAT is cheap. But you cannot compare what Billups and Gordon do to what Kidd did BECAUSE of the rules of the game. Do you understand now?

Knowing you consistently get away with doing illegal things = cheap. Agree or disagree?

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:30 AM
:laugh:
Yes, I know you and several other non-Maverick fans believe it is cheap yet no one can articulate why it is.

w/e dude, you've been given an explanation and you should probably try coping with the fact that not everyone has to agree with you.

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:32 AM
THAT'S JUST IT BROTHER... Yes, I agree THAT is cheap. But you cannot compare what Billups and Gordon do to what Kidd did BECAUSE of the rules of the game. Do you understand now?

Again, I don't care how the ref's enforce the rules in these situations. As a fan, I'm just calling a duck, a duck.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:33 AM
w/e dude, you've been given an explanation and you should probably try coping with the fact that not everyone has to agree with you.

The explanation was flawed in that it compared something illegal and something legal.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:34 AM
Again, I don't care how the ref's enforce the rules in these situations. As a fan, I'm just calling a duck, a duck.

If everyone agrees to call a duck a duck, then it is a duck. But when you disagree with the general consensus and want to call a duck a dog, then you're in the wrong. It sounds like garbage, but think about it for a few. lol

Kicking leg = illegal
Jumping into defender = legal
What Kidd did = legal

You aren't call a duck a duck, you're calling a duck a dog because your feelings are that it SHOULD be a dog.

BlondeBomber41
02-28-2010, 02:34 AM
Whats the arguement?

There is a coaches box, which technically no coach is suppose to get out of. I know coaches do it all the time, but they aren't suppose to.

NBA refs generally let it slide even though technically they can give a tech to any coach who leaves the box.

This time Kidd saw Woodson outside of the box, a couple steps onto the floor and decided he was gonna do something about it, and get his team a point in the process. It was a very smart play by Kidd, whether he ignitiated the contact or not. It will teach Woodson to keep his *** off the court and to pay attention to what was going on.

No matter how cheap you think it was, it was a very smart play and you would be happy as a pig in **** if your PG was the person who did it.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 02:39 AM
Whats the arguement?

There is a coaches box, which technically no coach is suppose to get out of. I know coaches do it all the time, but they aren't suppose to.

NBA refs generally let it slide even though technically they can give a tech to any coach who leaves the box.

This time Kidd saw Woodson outside of the box, a couple steps onto the floor and decided he was gonna do something about it, and get his team a point in the process. It was a very smart play by Kidd, whether he ignitiated the contact or not. It will teach Woodson to keep his *** off the court and to pay attention to what was going on.

No matter how cheap you think it was, it was a very smart play and you would be happy as a pig in **** if your PG was the person who did it.

Well put. I was just wanting someone to describe what is "cheap." I was given some failed explanation, comparing something legal (jumping into a defender in the air to draw a foul) to something illegal (kicking out a leg at a defender). This explanation wouldn't be a failure had what Kidd did have been illegal, but it is obviously legal.

BlondeBomber41
02-28-2010, 02:49 AM
Well put. I was just wanting someone to describe what is "cheap." I was given some failed explanation, comparing something legal (jumping into a defender in the air to draw a foul) to something illegal (kicking out a leg at a defender). This explanation wouldn't be a failure had what Kidd did have been illegal, but it is obviously legal.

There is nothing cheap about it. You can't blame anything about the incident on anyone but Mike Woodson.

The difference between this time and all the other times in which a coach comes onto the floor and Woodson wasn't smart enough to get the hell off of the floor before it became an issue. He put himself in that position, to call Kidd cheap for doing what was best for his team is ridiculous.

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:52 AM
If everyone agrees to call a duck a duck, then it is a duck. But when you disagree with the general consensus and want to call a duck a dog, then you're in the wrong. It sounds like garbage, but think about it for a few. lol

Kicking leg = illegal
Jumping into defender = legal
What Kidd did = legal

You aren't call a duck a duck, you're calling a duck a dog because your feelings are that it SHOULD be a dog.

You're right, it's an imperfect analogy... but getting hung up over legality or illegality is missing the point I tried to get across. The rule is in place so that coaches don't get in the way of game action. If coaches are allowed on the floor (illegally or not) because they aren't obstructing play.. then that's the way the ref's are calling the game. If Woodson didn't see Kidd, and Kidd intentionally ran into him.. then imo, that's a good play. But clipping Woodson, who isn't in the way but happened to be on the floor a second earlier and in violation of a rule that's rarely enforced (and who knows, maybe Woodson's been doing that the whole game and the ref's were aware) isn't something I can get behind. IMO, it's bush league... Are you really arguing with me because I'm not giving Kidd full credit for being such a smart PG?

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:54 AM
There is nothing cheap about it. You can't blame anything about the incident on anyone but Mike Woodson.

The difference between this time and all the other times in which a coach comes onto the floor and Woodson wasn't smart enough to get the hell off of the floor before it became an issue. He put himself in that position, to call Kidd cheap for doing what was best for his team is ridiculous.

I'm fine with that.. or you can also place some of the blame on the ref's for inconsistency, I can think of several examples of that happening.

Draco
02-28-2010, 02:58 AM
Well put. I was just wanting someone to describe what is "cheap." I was given some failed explanation, comparing something legal (jumping into a defender in the air to draw a foul) to something illegal (kicking out a leg at a defender). This explanation wouldn't be a failure had what Kidd did have been illegal, but it is obviously legal.

The point wasn't whether or not Kidd was within the rules.. the point was that it's a cheap play... imo.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 03:05 AM
You're right, it's an imperfect analogy... but getting hung up over legality or illegality is missing the point I tried to get across. The rule is in place so that coaches don't get in the way of game action. If coaches are allowed on the floor (illegally or not) because they aren't obstructing play.. then that's the way the ref's are calling the game. If Woodson didn't see Kidd, and Kidd intentionally ran into him.. then imo, that's a good play. But clipping Woodson, who isn't in the way but happened to be on the floor a second earlier and in violation of a rule that's rarely enforced (and who knows, maybe Woodson's been doing that the whole game and the ref's were aware) isn't something I can get behind. IMO, it's bush league... Are you really arguing with me because I'm not giving Kidd full credit for being such a smart PG?

It's not an argument, at least not with you brother. You are attempting to explain, I give you credit for that at least.

However, if refs ALWAYS called it as it's suppose to and Kidd still would have clipped Woodson, then you can make a case for it being "cheap." I still would disagree, but you at least have some merit now.

The fact of the matter is this... if Kidd would not have clipped Woodson, the refs would have not called the technical foul... we know this because REFS NEVER CALL IT. :laugh:

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 03:06 AM
The point wasn't whether or not Kidd was within the rules.. the point was that it's a cheap play... imo.

But what is "cheap" should be, at least for me it is, as doing something illegally with the intent and knowledge of getting away with it. Something cannot be cheap if it is legal in other words.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 03:07 AM
I'm fine with that.. or you can also place some of the blame on the ref's for inconsistency, I can think of several examples of that happening.

Yes, you can 100% make a case that the refs are "cheap" for not being consistent, but NOT about Kidd. :P

Perhaps they will start doing it more often now without the player needing to clip the coach.

Draco
02-28-2010, 03:15 AM
But what is "cheap" should be, at least for me it is, as doing something illegally with the intent and knowledge of getting away with it. Something cannot be cheap if it is legal in other words.

I agree with that.. and my definition of "cheap" also includes any instance of a rule being enforced when the 'spirit of the rule' doesn't apply to the situation.

Draco
02-28-2010, 03:19 AM
Yes, you can 100% make a case that the refs are "cheap" for not being consistent, but NOT about Kidd. :P

I didn't write that Kidd was cheap, I wrote that it was a cheap play. Several posts back, I acknowledged it was a smart play, if the ref's are going to allow it. I just think it's a cheap way to affect the game.

_KB24_
02-28-2010, 03:27 AM
I didn't write that Kidd was cheap, I wrote that it was a cheap play. Several posts back, I acknowledged it was a smart play, if the ref's are going to allow it. I just think it's a cheap way to affect the game.

Thank you.

It was a SMART play, but the the turnout and execution of it was cheap IMO. The coaches are always on the court whether we like it or not. If your going to call a tech on that play, it should be an automatic T every time a coach is on the court. Be consistent or make up your mind.

The only issue I raised was the lasting effect of the call. Woodson was clearly away from Kidd and somewhat in the sideline, but Kidd deliberately pulled his elbow out, which I don't agree with.

ChicagoBulls23
02-28-2010, 03:46 AM
^^^^^^

+1

Meth
02-28-2010, 05:09 AM
That's why if you sell it good enough, you get a call.
You can pretty much sell the littlest contact, and make it look big.
Exactly what I hate about the NBA.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:12 AM
I agree with that.. and my definition of "cheap" also includes any instance of a rule being enforced when the 'spirit of the rule' doesn't apply to the situation.

Because "spirit of the rule" is pretty vague, I would say I disagree with that. We need to go with the letter of the law to ensure fairness.

Jason5Kidd5
02-28-2010, 05:14 AM
That's why if you sell it good enough, you get a call.
You can pretty much sell the littlest contact, and make it look big.
Exactly what I hate about the NBA.

Even if it there was no contact it is STILL a violation.

People keep saying the "act" was cheap (not Kidd himself) and then justify their answer by saying "because the refs never call it consistently." Well then, wouldn't that make the refs cheap and not the act (because the act is within the letter of the law).

stawka
02-28-2010, 06:48 AM
Cheap or not cheap, Kidd owned the Hawks by himself throughout the whole game, and that play right there destroyed him. That's the difference between a good PG and a veteran that knows the game. Kidd FTW!

JJ_JKidd
02-28-2010, 10:52 AM
Ref called a T right? End of convo. Yall 7th-graders better do ya homework instead of spending time on the Net :rolleyes:

JJ_JKidd
02-28-2010, 11:10 AM
Kids kids let me put this in a way that grade-schoolers like yall here would understand.

1. Kidd was in a mini-fastbreak.

2. Woodson was in his way.

3. Before they collide, Woodson surprisingly gets out of Kidd's path.

4. Kidd extends his arm, and nudges Woodson and W gets a T out of that.

5. Kidd is ONE OF THE SMARTEST players today, if he didnt have that reputation would the Refs give it? H E LL NO! So basically, they favored Kidd instead of Woodson because it was the right play.

6. Was it CHEAP? No. What was it then? It was called a taking advantage of a stupid play by an opposing team's coach when your team needs it the most!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

The thread title says "...too far out on the court." Its kinda stupid. Too far to me means that Woodson is at least on the opposite side of the court.

Cavs_Fan24
02-28-2010, 11:13 AM
Kidd is pretty smart. Woodson had no business being that far out onto the court.

arkanian215
02-28-2010, 11:31 AM
with dallas down in the game, that's a very opportunistic play by kidd. dallas might've lost the game if it weren't for that.

Draco
02-28-2010, 01:02 PM
Because "spirit of the rule" is pretty vague, I would say I disagree with that. We need to go with the letter of the law to ensure fairness.

It might be vague to you but not to the officials since they haven't been calling technicals in just about any other instance of coaches being on the court. The Woodson thing would have been a non-call as well if Kidd hadn't forced the issue.

BlondeBomber41
02-28-2010, 03:05 PM
I'm fine with that.. or you can also place some of the blame on the ref's for inconsistency, I can think of several examples of that happening.

I disagree. The big difference between this time and the other times coaches were out on the floor was this time Woodson was out there enough to where a player could make contact with him. I have never seen a coach that far out on the floor to where a player even had the chance to make contact with him.

Ebbs
02-28-2010, 03:09 PM
brilliant!

JJ_JKidd
02-28-2010, 11:55 PM
"I went straight. A straight line. If I can't beat him down the court, I got to find another job. They would do the same thing. You have to be thinking. It wasn't a cheap play. It was just a smart play." Jason Kidd

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/022810dnspomavssider.15c7e2dd0.html

ugafan
03-01-2010, 12:21 AM
I'm a Hawks fan, and I thought Kidd did a smart thing. If a Hawks player was in the same situation, I would want him to do the same.

JKiddFan4Life
03-01-2010, 12:23 PM
As far as people talking about "cheap" moves, the fact that Kidd simply made contact with the coach says a lot about the player. Kidd could have done anything, including throw the ball at the coach's head, and the T would have to have been called on Woodson. The rule is what it is, and Kidd HAD TO initiate the contact, because it wouldn't have been called otherwise, and Woodson would have done the same thing the next time down the court. Smart move by a veteran.

Draco
03-01-2010, 12:31 PM
As far as people talking about "cheap" moves, the fact that Kidd simply made contact with the coach says a lot about the player. Kidd could have done anything, including throw the ball at the coach's head, and the T would have to have been called on Woodson. The rule is what it is, and Kidd HAD TO initiate the contact, because it wouldn't have been called otherwise, and Woodson would have done the same thing the next time down the court. Smart move by a veteran.

Right.. he had to clip Woodson who was already on the sideline so as to draw attention to Woodson being on the court a second earlier and perhaps even confuse the ref into thinking Woodson was still on the court.. basically, he made a big deal out of nothing.. which is something I don't congratulate. Yeah, smart move.. the coach got a T and the Mav's benefited. But, in my book.. it's cheap. As far as throwing the ball at Woodson's head.. WTF? Ok, so Kidd is classy as well as smart... it's still a cheap play.

JKiddFan4Life
03-01-2010, 12:36 PM
Woodson obviously jumped back, if Kidd was able to hit him, he was inbounds. And if the ball happens to hit the coach while that coach is on the court, it's interference on the coach's part. I believe that's also a T.

Draco
03-01-2010, 12:39 PM
Woodson obviously jumped back, if Kidd was able to hit him, he was inbounds. And if the ball happens to hit the coach while that coach is on the court, it's interference on the coach's part. I believe that's also a T.

And obviously Kidd's arm can extend past the sideline...

JKiddFan4Life
03-01-2010, 12:46 PM
The coach should be off the court by the time play is active...nuff said.

Draco
03-01-2010, 12:48 PM
It's a cheap play.. nuff said.