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View Full Version : Could Derrick Rose win a ring as the best player on his team?



Ethix11
02-27-2010, 02:03 AM
You read right, Can Derrick Rose ever win a Championship as the best player on his team? If not, what would it take?

I personally dont believe its possible because a franchise player should be the best player on his team and while I think Rose will be an All-Star for a long time, I think ultimately he will need players better than him to get to and win a ring.

1-800-STFU
02-27-2010, 02:05 AM
Maybe in 2 years, right now?

No.

abe_froman
02-27-2010, 02:08 AM
i think he can be,i havent seen anything that suggests he couldnt be...and a few that make me think he can

E.O.21
02-27-2010, 02:09 AM
Right now obviously not... he will certainly be a superstar some day

B.JenningsMVP
02-27-2010, 02:12 AM
maybe in 2 years, right now?

No.

+1

drose231
02-27-2010, 02:12 AM
rose > rondo

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 02:17 AM
If the Bulls won it all this year it would be an absolute shame to basketball. I love the Bulls, but multiple teams would have to ROYALLY **** up to allow that to happen.

mrblisterdundee
02-27-2010, 02:17 AM
I think of Derrick Rose playing the same role on the bulls as Russell Westbrook does on the Thunder, getting in the range of a triple double on an almost nightly basis, while another player does the major scoring. That other player could be Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, or Chris Bosh. Any way you look at it, I see Rose as the facilitating triple double threat.

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 02:19 AM
I think of Derrick Rose playing the same role on the bulls as Russell Westbrook does on the Thunder, getting in the range of a triple double on an almost nightly basis, while another player does the major scoring. That other player could be Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, or Chris Bosh. Any way you look at it, I see Rose as the facilitating triple double threat.

No offense, but Westbrook doesn't come even close to averaging a triple double. So I don't know how he could possibly be getting in the range of them nightly. Granted, I don't get to watch him much. I will say however, Rose will always be a scorer. At best, with a Bosh type he maybe, MAYBE will average 9 assists a game some day. But he's more likely to score 25+ points per game with 7 assists and 6 rebounds or so. He'll never be a really big facilitator I don't think.

I do like Westbrook a lot though. Don't get me wrong. But he and Rose won't really play similar roles on their teams.

jim51990
02-27-2010, 02:29 AM
simply no

Shady66
02-27-2010, 02:31 AM
3 rose threads in a matter or minutes

abe_froman
02-27-2010, 02:49 AM
3 rose threads in a matter or minutes

this one's legit,the other is made my(probably)a retuning troll who likes to mess with you guys,and the third is in response to said troll's thread

Chronz
02-27-2010, 02:49 AM
Stupid question, just about any all-star can win a ring if his supporting cast is good enough. What you should be asking is, can Derrick Rose lead his team to a title, while carrying the responsibility of (insert comparison here).

mrblisterdundee
02-27-2010, 03:06 AM
No offense, but Westbrook doesn't come even close to averaging a triple double. So I don't know how he could possibly be getting in the range of them nightly. Granted, I don't get to watch him much. I will say however, Rose will always be a scorer. At best, with a Bosh type he maybe, MAYBE will average 9 assists a game some day. But he's more likely to score 25+ points per game with 7 assists and 6 rebounds or so. He'll never be a really big facilitator I don't think.

I do like Westbrook a lot though. Don't get me wrong. But he and Rose won't really play similar roles on their teams.

I wrote about Westbrook coming in range of a triple double on a nightly basis. Coming in range means getting six or more rebounds and assists, along with double-digit scoring. In that respect, he comes within range on a nightly basis. Derrick Rose would be lucky to average his stats as a second option.

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 03:15 AM
I wrote about Westbrook coming in range of a triple double on a nightly basis. Coming in range means getting six or more rebounds and assists, along with double-digit scoring. In that respect, he comes within range on a nightly basis. Derrick Rose would be lucky to average his stats as a second option.

:laugh: Rose is a much, much better shooter than Westbrook, don't let his season averages fool you, the last 31 games Rose has been fully healthy and extremely amazing. Westbrook and he are ENTIRELY different players. Rose as a second option would probably be around 20PPG with 8 assists and 5 rebounds as he stands right now.

You can't seriously believe Westbrook is better than Rose can you? If that's what you're suggesting you're being EXTREMELY homertastic. I'm not someone who thinks Rose is a top 20 player in the NBA even. There are probably people that deserved an All-Star nod more than him even. But Westbrook is not as good as Rose.

EDIT: Last thing: Westbrook actually doesn't come in range of that. He doesn't average 6 rebounds per night, which, y'know is kinda your own requirement. He's a good player, but simma down.

LeBroom
02-27-2010, 03:29 AM
Wow, so many Derrick Rose threads LOL. Is he the new GOAT? @_@

No offense to D-Rose, I like his game but, for some reason, people here in PSD seem to over-hype the guy?

Meth
02-27-2010, 03:31 AM
Wow, so many Derrick Rose threads LOL. Is he the new GOAT? @_@

No offense to D-Rose, I like his game but, for some reason, people here in PSD seem to over-hype the guy?

Agree. He's good, but over-prized.

nitric
02-27-2010, 03:36 AM
The OP isn 't even a Bulls fan

JNA17
02-27-2010, 03:46 AM
nah

Sadds The Gr8
02-27-2010, 03:53 AM
wtf? it's his 2nd year....way too early to ask this question...

ManRam
02-27-2010, 08:51 AM
I think it's too early to tell. I don't think it's clear how elite he is, and how much he can carry a team in the playoffs. My guy says eventually yes, but he'd need a great supporting cast.

Cavs_Fan24
02-27-2010, 08:57 AM
I think of rose right now as a good complimentary player to a superstar. Beingb the best player on his team like he is now I can't see it happening.

$ NyC $
02-27-2010, 09:06 AM
How about we wait and actually see what Rose is capable of and THEN ask this question. He's only been in the league for 2 years lets at least give him 2 more before we start asking this question.

downsos
02-27-2010, 09:12 AM
I think he can in the same way Paul Pierce got his. Garnett was arguably the better player than him at that time, but Pierce was the main reason why they got the ring. I can see Rose doing something similar in it could be argued that (insert player here) could arguably be better than him, but Rose would be the reason why his team got the ring.

Kyben36
02-27-2010, 09:36 AM
:facepalm: Another d rose thread

JordansBulls
02-27-2010, 09:43 AM
You read right, Can Derrick Rose ever win a Championship as the best player on his team? If not, what would it take?

I personally dont believe its possible because a franchise player should be the best player on his team and while I think Rose will be an All-Star for a long time, I think ultimately he will need players better than him to get to and win a ring.

Maybe if he became as good as Isiah Thomas.

alencp3
02-27-2010, 09:44 AM
He needs big-man like Bosh who can take care of bussiness

kurivaimu
02-27-2010, 09:46 AM
I think Derrick can't win a ring being the best player.
Firstly, i think the lineup where Derrick is runnign point needs a profilic scorer, all-star caliber player that will open things up also for D-rose.
Secondly, the small foward need to be a tough defender and someone who could stroke it from 3. trevor ariza and shane batteir are good examples.
Power forward should be a stretch foward, so he could open up things in the middle -> rose could penetrate.
And Center..a good rebounder, defensive orientation. Big body, shot bloker - > Noah will do fine.

To conclude, i think a lineup that would be a serious contender with D-rose is something like this:
PG - Rose
SG - Wade
SF - Battier/Ariza
PF - Trop Murphy, Antawn etc
C - Noah
Considering the cap space the bulls have, D-wade is a possibily. Also Murphy is available for the right price..maybe for Deng..

J-Relo
02-27-2010, 10:27 AM
only if his supporting cast is just a bit worse

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-27-2010, 10:31 AM
derrick rose thread number 45 this week!

arkanian215
02-27-2010, 10:36 AM
rose > rondo

lmao dude you're going on the ignored list. jesus christ.

RaptorizedKevin
02-27-2010, 10:43 AM
no way. Russel westbrooks stats are almost the same as rose and hes second best, and they havent won a championship yet. derrick rose wont win a championship as the best player on his team.

Reversed86Curse
02-27-2010, 11:02 AM
I think of Derrick Rose playing the same role on the bulls as Russell Westbrook does on the Thunder, getting in the range of a triple double on an almost nightly basis, while another player does the major scoring. That other player could be Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, or Chris Bosh. Any way you look at it, I see Rose as the facilitating triple double threat.

The range of a triple double? So that means as a PG he'll someday average more than 6 assists and 4 rebounds? If that's the range, there are like a hundred players that could be in 'the range' of a triple double every night

Diggy_2
02-27-2010, 11:48 AM
if the bulls get Bosh they will win a ring that same year because the way Rose is playin right now and to have Bosh by his side they would be unstoppable

td0tsfinest
02-27-2010, 12:21 PM
Can he carry a crappy team into the playoffs and do well? No.

He's going to need a good supporting cast. Maybe a former "#1" option along with a young side kick of his own.

Kakaroach
02-27-2010, 12:23 PM
He is still very young so its hard to say right now. Its a matter of how much he can improve honestly.

Jays Claw
02-27-2010, 12:26 PM
Give them Bosh so they could win it all! :rolleyes:

YoungOne
02-27-2010, 12:33 PM
i think rose will end up as the next allen iverson, big time scorer but not looking to pass.
So if chicago brings in chris bosh or dwyane wade he has to learn how to get a better passer or he won't win a championship...just my opinion

dwadefan03
02-27-2010, 12:43 PM
chris paul aka the best pg in the league cant win a championship as the best player on his team. derrick rose needs someone in the paint along with wut they already have in order to push for a championship

kingkenny01
02-27-2010, 12:48 PM
one ofthe most overated players ever
a team made of five derrick roses could not win the nba title

kswissdaf
02-27-2010, 01:01 PM
Yes rose is a stud

DaBUU
02-27-2010, 01:07 PM
I hope everyone realizes coaches all over the league, including announcers like Kenny Smith and Eric Snow, all say he is really close to being the best PG in the league. And within a year or two he will be. Thats not us homers saying that, its head coaches. But yet everyone outside The Chi on this board is calling him a complimentary player, thats hating just to hate.

KnicksorBust
02-27-2010, 01:09 PM
I'll keep this simple. I do not think there is a chance the Bulls win a title with Rose as their best player. I don't think scoring PGs should be your teams best player and I don't think Rose is even a top 3 PG. Nor do I see him ever passing Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

Reversed86Curse
02-27-2010, 01:15 PM
I hope everyone realizes coaches all over the league, including announcers like Kenny Smith and Eric Snow, all say he is really close to being the best PG in the league. And within a year or two he will be. Thats not us homers saying that, its head coaches. But yet everyone outside The Chi on this board is calling him a complimentary player, thats hating just to hate.

Just because he plays the point position and is a better scorer than most at the position does not mean he is better than most point guards. A true point guard isn't just a scoring guard playing the point position, which is what Rose is. If you look at all of the things that a point guard should be, Rose isn't even close to the top

Ollie Tabooger
02-27-2010, 01:19 PM
i'll keep this simple. I do not think there is a chance the bulls win a title with rose as their best player. I don't think scoring pgs should be your teams best player and i don't think rose is even a top 3 pg. Nor do i see him ever passing chris paul or deron williams.

+1

DaBUU
02-27-2010, 01:22 PM
Just because he plays the point position and is a better scorer than most at the position does not mean he is better than most point guards. A true point guard isn't just a scoring guard playing the point position, which is what Rose is. If you look at all of the things that a point guard should be, Rose isn't even close to the top

i realize not everyone watches him play every night like we do and only sees his point total most of the games, but hes able to do a lot more and scores like that only cuz he has to on this particular team. From the point position he moves the offense and is able to break down defenses so easily with his speed and handles. He has very good court vision and would be averaging less points and more assists if he had a big time scorer. My point is hes a very good PG that can do what the best PG's need to do, hes just scoring right now cuz thats what the team is asking of him.

iggypop123
02-27-2010, 01:31 PM
he still doesnt even play defense. they can go nowhere with him as top dog

Daze9900
02-27-2010, 01:32 PM
I would have to say no until he show's that killer instict. I think he realizes now he has to be way more aggressive. The start of the season even though he was injured you had legends and players around the league wondering why he wasn't just going out there and attacking. He has all the skills necessary to be that #1 guy that leads to a championship the question is will he get better players around him and continue to dominate. Imagine if he had the ego that Rondo has? This guy should killing the league he is Dwyane Wade in a point guards body with playmaking ability.

Skaterdude
02-27-2010, 01:32 PM
As a Bulls fan, I realize that Rose is a very good player right now, nothing great (yet), and cannot win a championship by himself.

Any Bulls fans that think he can do it by himself are delusional because you need to have better players than the average core the Bulls have outside of Rose.

The Bulls do have nice role players but they need at least 1 player who is already regarded as a 'superstar' to compliment Rose before the Bulls can think about having a shot at the championship.

So, to answer your question, no.

JasonJohnHorn
02-27-2010, 01:34 PM
Chauncey Billups did. I don't see why Rose couldn't. Which isn't to say he will, just that he could.

DaBUU
02-27-2010, 02:00 PM
and to be clear, I do not think he can win championship this year by himself. I think eventually he can be a #1 option on a championship team, but he'd have to have a real good #1a option.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 02:07 PM
no way. Russel westbrooks stats are almost the same as rose and hes second best, and they havent won a championship yet. derrick rose wont win a championship as the best player on his team.

Except Rose has a better... PER, ts%, efg%, ppg.
Of course Westbrook has the luxury of better rpg playing on a fairly poor rebounding team and more assists playing with a top 3 scorer. AND should have better ts% and efg%, but doesn't. In fact they are terrible considering that while Rose's is pretty good for a second year player that is the main focus for every team. And even better since the injury.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 02:08 PM
he still doesnt even play defense. they can go nowhere with him as top dog

He's improved, but I agree, he's still pretty bad. However, he's only a 2nd year player, he has a good work ethic and has the length and athleticism to eventually be pretty good. We'll see. Most young players, unless they are defensive specialists, aren't good at that end.

drobe86
02-27-2010, 02:10 PM
I don't think so. Rose is an All star but will certainly never be a superstar.....

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 02:12 PM
I'll keep this simple. I do not think there is a chance the Bulls win a title with Rose as their best player. I don't think scoring PGs should be your teams best player and I don't think Rose is even a top 3 PG. Nor do I see him ever passing Chris Paul or Deron Williams.


Just because he plays the point position and is a better scorer than most at the position does not mean he is better than most point guards. A true point guard isn't just a scoring guard playing the point position, which is what Rose is. If you look at all of the things that a point guard should be, Rose isn't even close to the top

You know what's funny, the obsession over a pass first pg.
When was the last time a pass first pg led or helped lead a team to a championship? I'll tell you, Isiah in the late 80s and Magic before that who was essentially a top 5 player of all time anyway. Parker and Billups are 2 score first pgs who helped lead their teams to championships in this decade alone. In the end of the day, Rose is a guard. He will pass, but he is better at scoring. He should hopefully fit similar role to guys like Kobe, Wade, Parker, Billups etc. Main ballhandler who will pass, but also score a ton when necessary. Not to mention Rose's apg are also low due to a system Bulls employed that isn't assist friendly at all.


I don't think so. Rose is an All star but will certainly never be a superstar.....

That's a bold statement. He was number one pick BECAUSE he has the potential to be a superstar. Will he? who knows, and frankly I was a little skeptical in the beginning of the season. But with his play of late, who knows.

NYtilIdie
02-27-2010, 02:18 PM
I'll keep this simple. I do not think there is a chance the Bulls win a title with Rose as their best player. I don't think scoring PGs should be your teams best player and I don't think Rose is even a top 3 PG. Nor do I see him ever passing Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

This

drobe86
02-27-2010, 02:22 PM
You know what's funny, the obsession over a pass first pg.
When was the last time a pass first pg led or helped lead a team to a championship? I'll tell you, Isiah in the late 80s and Magic before that who was essentially a top 5 player of all time anyway. Parker and Billups are 2 score first pgs who helped lead their teams to championships in this decade alone. In the end of the day, Rose is a guard. He will pass, but he is better at scoring. He should hopefully fit similar role to guys like Kobe, Wade, Parker, Billups etc. Main ballhandler who will pass, but also score a ton when necessary. Not to mention Rose's apg are also low due to a system Bulls employed that isn't assist friendly at all.



That's a bold statement. He was number one pick BECAUSE he has the potential to be a superstar. Will he? who knows, and frankly I was a little skeptical in the beginning of the season. But with his play of late, who knows.

That's not a bold statement at all.... In fact to think that Rose will be tons better than he is now in the future is just plain naive. What you see is what you get from him. He'll top out at around 20 ppg and 7 assists. Which isn't superstar at all. In fact he doesn't play defense at all so steals, blocks, and rebounds will never be apart of his reportoire. Russell Westbrook has more upside than Rose.

mikantsass
02-27-2010, 02:29 PM
Yes he can, give him a few years and a better surrounding cast

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 02:29 PM
That's not a bold statement at all.... In fact to think that Rose will be tons better than he is now in the future is just plain naive. What you see is what you get from him. He'll top out at around 20 ppg and 7 assists. Which isn't superstar at all.

:laugh:
This is terrific.
A player who is still raw as hell and was considered that coming out of college already reach his peak at his second year.
Funny thing is Rose has been averaging 22ppg+ the past 2+ months. Good try though.


In fact he doesn't play defense at all so steals, blocks, and rebounds will never be apart of his reportoire.

So apparently a 2nd year player peaked. That's news to me.


Russell Westbrook has more upside than Rose.

Baseless statement.

KnicksorBust
02-27-2010, 02:47 PM
You know what's funny, the obsession over a pass first pg.
When was the last time a pass first pg led or helped lead a team to a championship? I'll tell you, Isiah in the late 80s and Magic before that who was essentially a top 5 player of all time anyway. Parker and Billups are 2 score first pgs who helped lead their teams to championships in this decade alone. In the end of the day, Rose is a guard. He will pass, but he is better at scoring. He should hopefully fit similar role to guys like Kobe, Wade, Parker, Billups etc. Main ballhandler who will pass, but also score a ton when necessary. Not to mention Rose's apg are also low due to a system Bulls employed that isn't assist friendly at all.


The 2004 Detroit Pistons are the anamoly of NBA History and if you think Parker lead his team to the title then you are either kidding yourself or being ignorant. The Pistons had 4 all-stars on that squad and on the Spurs Parker was either the 2nd or 3rd most important player for them that season. How do either of them demonstrate that Rose could LEAD the Bulls to a title?

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 02:50 PM
The 2004 Detroit Pistons are the anamoly of NBA History and if you think Parker lead his team to the title then you are either kidding yourself or being ignorant. The Pistons had 4 all-stars on that squad and on the Spurs Parker was either the 2nd or 3rd most important player for them that season. How do either of them demonstrate that Rose could LEAD the Bulls to a title?

Parker was an MVP for Spurs when they played the cavs and I said HELPED lead.
And Billups was still the top player on Pistons. Note, I'm not saying Rose can single-handedly lead a team. But as a 1a, 1b option with a guy like Bosh, why not?
The pass first pg argument is complete crap though.
And I do believe he can be the top perimeter player on a championship team along with a very good big man.

KnicksorBust
02-27-2010, 02:57 PM
Parker was an MVP for Spurs when they played the cavs and I said HELPED lead.
And Billups was still the top player on Pistons. Note, I'm not saying Rose can single-handedly lead a team. But as a 1a, 1b option with a guy like Bosh, why not?
The pass first pg argument is complete crap though.
And I do believe he can be the top perimeter player on a championship team along with a very good big man.

I'm aware he won MVP. I watched the series. Thank you though. Maybe if Rose got to play with a much better player like Tim Duncan and another great perimeter player like Manu (who had a better season than Parker that year if you care to know) and THEN got to matchup with Eric Snow and Damon Jones in the Finals... then yes you are right. Derrick Rose could win a BS Finals MVP. Is that what you want me to admit?

Sure I'll also admit if you surround Rose with 3 other all-stars like Rip, Sheed, Big Ben, and an amazing 5th starter like Tayshaun Prince then he'd have a chance to beat be an imploding injured team in the finals as well.

I still don't think either example proves anything. They are both "pure crap" examples.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 03:00 PM
I'm aware he won MVP. I watched the series. Thank you though. Maybe if Rose got to play with a much better player like Tim Duncan and another great perimeter player like Manu (who had a better season than Parker that year if you care to know) and THEN got to matchup with Eric Snow and Damon Jones in the Finals... then yes you are right. Derrick Rose could win a BS Finals MVP. Is that what you want me to admit?

Sure I'll also admit if you surround Rose with 3 other all-stars like Rip, Sheed, Big Ben, and an amazing 5th starter like Tayshaun Prince then he'd have a chance to beat be an imploding injured team in the finals as well.

I still don't think either example proves anything. They are both "pure crap" examples.

So if Bulls added Bosh and were able to get a capable scoring 2, then what?
Rose would share number one option along with Bosh.
You act as if Rose won't continue to improve. Point is, Rose fits the mold of a combo guard like Wade more than a pure pg and he is certainly capable of being a number one perimeter option on a championship team.
Once again, the pass first pg argument is weak. However, Rose has shown he can be a very good scorer in this league and as such, can maybe be a 1st option on a championship team or at least share the role.

KnicksorBust
02-27-2010, 03:18 PM
So if Bulls added Bosh and were able to get a capable scoring 2, then what?
Rose would share number one option along with Bosh.
You act as if Rose won't continue to improve. Point is, Rose fits the mold of a combo guard like Wade more than a pure pg and he is certainly capable of being a number one perimeter option on a championship team.
Once again, the pass first pg argument is weak. However, Rose has shown he can be a very good scorer in this league and as such, can maybe be a 1st option on a championship team or at least share the role.

If Rose had hit those FTs and beat Kansas I might agree with you. ;)

Meth
02-27-2010, 03:19 PM
if rose had hit those fts and beat kansas i might agree with you. ;)

exactly.

Chicagofaithful
02-27-2010, 03:30 PM
y all these rose threads? its making me sick! He's 21 what does anyone know about him and winning rings? No one can do it by themselves... wade needed shaq in case you forgot there mr. miami heat! Just stop with all these what ifs and look at him for what he is... an awesome 21 year old basketball player

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 03:37 PM
If Rose had hit those FTs and beat Kansas I might agree with you. ;)

:laugh2:
touche

Ethix11
02-27-2010, 05:39 PM
Wade won the ring as the best player on his team. He grew up alot during the Dallas series coming from a 2-0 deficeit to become Finals MVP in his third year. My question states, can Rose ever win a ring as top dog on his team? Does he have that killer instinct to LEAD a supporting cast to the finals? Or will he have to be a complimentary player on someone elses team? Hes awsome no one is denying that regardless.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 05:42 PM
Wade won the ring as the best player on his team. He grew up alot during the Dallas series coming from a 2-0 deficeit to become Finals MVP in his third year. My question states, can Rose ever win a ring as top dog on his team? Does he have that killer instinct to LEAD a supporting cast to the finals? Or will he have to be a complimentary player on someone elses team?

It's a tough question. I think I already said it in this thead, alot of us, Bulls fans, questioned Rose's mental toughness in the beginning of the season. But since then, he has shown he has the it factor. Before that, we've seen glimpses last season in Boston game 1, a game against Houston where we put a major comeback, same with a Pistons game and few others.
So I do think he has the "it" factor. However, I'm not sure if he can truly lead a team like a Wade, Kobe or Lebron. However, I'd like to hope so. :D

Gibby23
02-27-2010, 05:50 PM
Yes. A team with Rose, Ray Allen, Ron Artest, Rashard Lewis, and Andrew Bynum would have a very good chance at a ring. Rose would be the beat player out of those guys.

Reversed86Curse
02-27-2010, 07:00 PM
So if Bulls added Bosh and were able to get a capable scoring 2, then what?
Rose would share number one option along with Bosh.
You act as if Rose won't continue to improve. Point is, Rose fits the mold of a combo guard like Wade more than a pure pg and he is certainly capable of being a number one perimeter option on a championship team.
Once again, the pass first pg argument is weak. However, Rose has shown he can be a very good scorer in this league and as such, can maybe be a 1st option on a championship team or at least share the role.

IF the Bulls added Bosh, Rose wouldn't be the 1a or 1b, such as that 1a/b insinuates that a and b are of equal ability. Bosh would be the number 1 option. If that was the situation, I think Rose could get a championship with the addition of a better 1st option player.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 07:09 PM
IF the Bulls added Bosh, Rose wouldn't be the 1a or 1b, such as that 1a/b insinuates that a and b are of equal ability. Bosh would be the number 1 option. If that was the situation, I think Rose could get a championship with the addition of a better 1st option player.

Says who?
What makes you think Rose won't be every bit as good if not better than Bosh offensively?
You think Raptors wouldn't ship Bosh for Rose in a second?

Gibby23
02-27-2010, 07:10 PM
Says who?
What makes you think Rose won't be every bit as good if not better than Bosh offensively?
You think Raptors wouldn't ship Bosh for Rose in a second?

No.

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 07:14 PM
No.

:laugh: Are you serious? They sure as **** would. Not because Bosh isn't the better player right now, he most definitely is. But Rose has the potential to become as high quality a player, he's cheaper AND guaranteed to be around the next couple years. You are INSANE to think they wouldn't trade Bosh for Rose.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 07:15 PM
:laugh: Are you serious? They sure as **** would. Not because Bosh isn't the better player right now, he most definitely is. But Rose has the potential to become as high quality a player, he's cheaper AND guaranteed to be around the next couple years. You are INSANE to think they wouldn't trade Bosh for Rose.

Eh I added him to the ignore list awhile ago. Saves brain cells.

Gibby23
02-27-2010, 07:18 PM
:laugh: Are you serious? They sure as **** would. Not because Bosh isn't the better player right now, he most definitely is. But Rose has the potential to become as high quality a player, he's cheaper AND guaranteed to be around the next couple years. You are INSANE to think they wouldn't trade Bosh for Rose.

They wouldn't trade 26 year old PF for a PG unless Bosh forced them to, but if it was a trade talent for talent, no GM would trade Bosh for Rose.

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 07:23 PM
They wouldn't trade 26 year old PF for a PG unless Bosh forced them to, but if it was a trade talent for talent, no GM would trade Bosh for Rose.

I guarantee you if the Bulls offered Rose in a S+T for Bosh this offseason they'd do it. Any GM would. They could then use that money to try to get another piece because, y'know, Rose doesn't have a massive contract.

Samz
02-27-2010, 07:25 PM
I guarantee you if the Bulls offered Rose in a S+T for Bosh this offseason they'd do it. Any GM would. They could then use that money to try to get another piece because, y'know, Rose doesn't have a massive contract.

You guarentee this because? Truth is you dont know what a GM would do because ur not a GM. Just because YOU would do the deal doesn't mean a NBA GM would.

And no a GM would not do a Bosh for Rose in a S&T unless some other major pieces are involved. It doesn't fit what the raptors are trying to do atm.

D1JM
02-27-2010, 07:28 PM
yes another rose thread

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 07:30 PM
You guarentee this because? Truth is you dont know what a GM would do because ur not a GM. Just because YOU would do the deal doesn't mean a NBA GM would.

And no a GM would not do a Bosh for Rose in a S&T unless some other major pieces are involved. It doesn't fit what the raptors are trying to do atm.

So what exactly are they doing now?
The worst defensive and rebounding frontcourt?
Rose and Bargs would be a VERY good duo.

Bruno
02-27-2010, 07:31 PM
Too early for this.

Draco
02-27-2010, 07:33 PM
I guarantee you if the Bulls offered Rose in a S+T for Bosh this offseason they'd do it. Any GM would. They could then use that money to try to get another piece because, y'know, Rose doesn't have a massive contract.

Bosh is entering his prime, he's having a career year and BC spent a lot of money getting Hedo.. it'd be hard for me to believe that BC would then trade Bosh for Rose because of Rose's potential and contract value. Personally, I think if they traded Bosh for Rose and somehow/somewhere found a skilled defensive Center then that Raptor team would be a lot better than it currently is...

showtime5
02-27-2010, 07:33 PM
I don't know about this one; it's hard to tell if he could do it because of the lack of talent that is in Chicago right now. I think that might be inhibiting his true potential to take his team deep into the playoffs. He surely has the talent to be a great player in the league, but he needs a really solid supporting cast. However, if you think about all the up-and-coming teams that could threaten for the championship in a couple of years such as the Thunder, Hawks, Trailblazers, etc, it's hard to imagine that Rose could do it as the best player on his team.

Samz
02-27-2010, 07:39 PM
So what exactly are they doing now?
The worst defensive and rebounding frontcourt?
Rose and Bargs would be a VERY good duo.

Thats funny because even w/ the "worst" defense in the league the raptors still have a better record than the Bulls. And they haven't had Bosh in the lineup for the last 4 games lawl.

Bulls aren't landing up w/ the 5th seed in the East.
Better hope Rose doesnt get hurt like Bosh. At least the raptors have the depth to survive games w/o him. The bulls would not win a single game w/o Rose in the lineup.

footballer2369
02-27-2010, 07:41 PM
Could Derick Rose stop getting threads about him??

He's good. He's not even great yet.

Draco
02-27-2010, 07:42 PM
Thats funny because even w/ the "worst" defense in the league the raptors still have a better record than the Bulls. And they haven't had Bosh in the lineup for the last 4 games lawl.

Bulls aren't landing up w/ the 5th seed in the East.
Better hope Rose doesnt get hurt like Bosh. At least the raptors have the depth to survive games w/o him. The bulls would not win a single game w/o Rose in the lineup.

They won 49 games with a roster that included Kirk and Deng playing major roles.. if you're comparing the Raptors and the Bulls then know that they've had similar win totals over the last 3 or 4 years. IMO, the difference between the two teams is that the Bulls have a lot more room to grow.

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 07:43 PM
Thats funny because even w/ the "worst" defense in the league the raptors still have a better record than the Bulls. And they haven't had Bosh in the lineup for the last 4 games lawl.

Bulls aren't landing up w/ the 5th seed in the East.
Better hope Rose doesnt get hurt like Bosh. At least the raptors have the depth to survive games w/o him. The bulls would not win a single game w/o Rose in the lineup.

You say better record like the Bulls are so far back. .5 games isn't much. It's not even worth saying they have a better record.

And they'd be INSANE not to do Rose for Bosh in a S&T because of contract, they could get get someone else like Amare and be an absolute monster of a team.

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 07:46 PM
Thats funny because even w/ the "worst" defense in the league the raptors still have a better record than the Bulls. And they haven't had Bosh in the lineup for the last 4 games lawl.

Bulls aren't landing up w/ the 5th seed in the East.
Better hope Rose doesnt get hurt like Bosh. At least the raptors have the depth to survive games w/o him. The bulls would not win a single game w/o Rose in the lineup.

:laugh: The Bulls could beat the Grizzlies and Nets without Rose. They lost the other two games without him. Toronto would suck without Bosh, scratch that, they suck until he comes back.

Samz
02-27-2010, 07:47 PM
They won 49 games with a roster that included Kirk and Deng playing major roles.. if you're comparing the Raptors and the Bulls then know that they've had similar win totals over the last 3 or 4 years. IMO, the difference between the two teams is that the Bulls have a lot more room to grow.

lol the last couple years are done with. Lets talk about this season.

The bulls have more room to grow is something i do agree with. But its really a gamble who they will get this offseason... if anybody (unlikely but still is a possibility).

I don't think the bulls are better than the raptors this season. The defensive numbers from the raptors are really really deceptive. For the most part they have been playing better ball since mid december w/ a few slip up bad defensive games inbetween.

Last night for example; they pushed the Cavs into overtime w/o Bosh in the lineup which is a testiment to their depth.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 07:49 PM
Thats funny because even w/ the "worst" defense in the league the raptors still have a better record than the Bulls.

What's funny about it? They have a good offense, while Bulls is really bad because there are no 3pt shooters to accomodate Rose.


And they haven't had Bosh in the lineup for the last 4 games lawl.

And Rose was injured for a month and they are likely to have identical records by the end of tonight.


Bulls aren't landing up w/ the 5th seed in the East.

Last I checked, there is over a month and a half left.


etter hope Rose doesnt get hurt like Bosh. At least the raptors have the depth to survive games w/o him. The bulls would not win a single game w/o Rose in the lineup.

And...?
So are you saing Rose is better cause he's carrying a worse team to a similar record.
Thank you.

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 07:49 PM
lol the last couple years are done with. Lets talk about this season.

The bulls have more room to grow is something i do agree with. But its really a gamble who they will get this offseason... if anybody (unlikely but still is a possibility).

I don't think the bulls are better than the raptors this season. The defensive numbers from the raptors are really really deceptive. For the most part they have been playing better ball since mid december w/ a few slip up bad defensive games inbetween.

Last night for example; they pushed the Cavs into overtime w/o Bosh in the lineup which is a testiment to their depth.

Yeah, the Bulls have been the 3rd best team in the Eastern Conference since Christmas, so that's not a valid point at all. We're 21-10 since December 26th. The Raptors are 17-9.

Samz
02-27-2010, 07:49 PM
:laugh: The Bulls could beat the Grizzlies and Nets without Rose. They lost the other two games without him. Toronto would suck without Bosh, scratch that, they suck until he comes back.

Nice! was that when the Griz were 2-2 or something and really struggling? yeah thats what i thought. The Nets (do i even have to say anything?). The Raps are 2-2 w/o Bosh. We beat the nets (lol) and the wizards (whose beat the Bulls recently if i remember right lol). But ya, we all knows whats gonna happen if Rose gets "hurt" or injured a la the first couple "months" of the season.

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 07:52 PM
Nice! was that when the Griz were 2-8 or something and really struggling? yeah thats what i thought. The Nets (do i even have to say anything?). The Raps are 2-2 w/o Bosh. We beat the nets (lol) and the wizards (whose beat the Bulls recently if i remember right lol). But ya, we all knows whats gonna happen if Rose gets "hurt" or injured a la the first couple "months" of the season.

Yeah, the Wizards did beat us, but they had no business beating us. We're a WAY better team than them. Rose was hurt to start the year and played like absolute **** for the first 15 games and we survived that. We've also been one of the best teams in basketball since December 26th. Better than the Raptors for that matter. If ANY team loses their best player they're going to be in trouble, of COURSE Bulls fans are hoping Rose doesn't get hurt. And that's even sadder, the Wizards suck more than Memphis.

Draco
02-27-2010, 07:52 PM
lol the last couple years are done with. Lets talk about this season.

The bulls have more room to grow is something i do agree with. But its really a gamble who they will get this offseason... if anybody (unlikely but still is a possibility).

I don't think the bulls are better than the raptors this season. The defensive numbers from the raptors are really really deceptive. For the most part they have been playing better ball since mid december w/ a few slip up bad defensive games inbetween.

Last night for example; they pushed the Cavs into overtime w/o Bosh in the lineup which is a testiment to their depth.

I haven't been able to watch as many games as I'd like so I'm a little out of touch with my own team let alone the Raptors.. offhand, I'd agree the Bulls probably aren't a better team than the Raptors this year.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 07:54 PM
I haven't been able to watch as many games as I'd like so I'm a little out of touch with my own team let alone the Raptors.. offhand, I'd agree the Bulls probably aren't a better team than the Raptors this year.

I don't know, I'd say they are more or less even. I'll say one thing though, Bulls always seem to play like **** against the raptors. They just always seem to have the Bull's number.

Samz
02-27-2010, 07:59 PM
Yeah, the Wizards did beat us, but they had no business beating us. We're a WAY better team than them. Rose was hurt to start the year and played like absolute **** for the first 15 games and we survived that. We've also been one of the best teams in basketball since December 26th. Better than the Raptors for that matter. If ANY team loses their best player they're going to be in trouble, of COURSE Bulls fans are hoping Rose doesn't get hurt. And that's even sadder, the Wizards suck more than Memphis.

A loss is a loss. Theres a lot of teams that have no business winning but still win odd games a la NJ and Boston today. Oh and if you count since earlier in december the raptors have one of the best winning records. Just the fact that Bosh has been out of the lineup the past 2 games that we dropped mght have changed that iunno.

Anywayz, do you believe the Bulls are better than the Raptors this season?

Oh and back on topic, i dont thik rose can win a title as the main player on his team. He needs a dominant big man imo.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 08:01 PM
A loss is a loss. Theres a lot of teams that have no business winning but still win odd games a la NJ and Boston today. Oh and if you count since earlier in december the raptors have one of the best winning records. Just the fact that Bosh has been out of the lineup the past 2 games that we dropped mght have changed that iunno.

Ok... Good for Raptors. Both teams has had to face adversary this season. Hell our most consistent big has been out for more than 10 games now.


Anywayz, do you believe the Bulls are better than the Raptors this season?

Personally I think they are fairly even.


Oh and back on topic, i dont thik rose can win a title as the main player on his team. He needs a dominant big man imo.

If by main you mean Wade, Lebron or Kobe like then I completely agree. However I certainly believe he can share the role as 1st option with a guy like Amare or Bosh as he continues to improve.

Samz
02-27-2010, 08:03 PM
Ok... Good for Raptors. Both teams has had to face adversary this season. Hell our most consistent big has been out for more than 10 games now.



Personally I think they are fairly even.



If by main you mean Wade, Lebron or Kobe like then I completely agree. However I certainly believe he can share the role as 1st option with a guy like Amare or Bosh as he continues to improve.

There is no "share the role" kinda thing lol. Either he is a first option or he is a second option. For example, if Bosh were to come to the Bulls this offseason which i dont think he will, Bosh would be the main option hands down. Period.

There would be no sharing of the number 1 option.

kozelkid
02-27-2010, 08:08 PM
There is no "share the role" kinda thing lol. Either he is a first option or he is a second option. For example, if Bosh were to come to the Bulls this offseason which i dont think he will, Bosh would be the main option hands down. Period.

There would be no sharing of the number 1 option.

90s Utah Jazz and Seattle Sonics disagree. Period.

PHX2daDEATH
02-27-2010, 08:09 PM
He'll have to have a really really really good team... When was the last time a Point Guard carried his team to a championship or was the best player on the Team? (excluding Chauncey) Not since Magic.. I dont think Rose is Magic-esque..no, Rose will never win a title unless he teams with a dominant big man or Lebron or Durant or somebody

Gibby23
02-27-2010, 08:46 PM
I guarantee you if the Bulls offered Rose in a S+T for Bosh this offseason they'd do it. Any GM would. They could then use that money to try to get another piece because, y'know, Rose doesn't have a massive contract.

They might do it if Bosh said he wasn't coming back, but they still might be able to find a better S&T deal. If Bosh was happy there, they wouldn't even think about trading him for Rose.

dtmagnet
02-27-2010, 08:59 PM
I don't know if Rose is done developing, he could get better or he could stay where he is at. If he stays where he is at, then you'd need some darn good role players around him to win a championship with him as the "best" player on the team.

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 09:14 PM
I think of Derrick Rose playing the same role on the bulls as Russell Westbrook does on the Thunder, getting in the range of a triple double on an almost nightly basis, while another player does the major scoring. That other player could be Dwayne Wade, LeBron James, or Chris Bosh. Any way you look at it, I see Rose as the facilitating triple double threat.

The Bulls don't have rebound machine centers yet Rose still sucks at rebounding. No idea how you think he can get 10 rebounds frequently. And I sure as hell know you're not talking about him getting a triple-double with his STLS.

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 09:22 PM
I don't think so. Rose is an All star but will certainly never be a superstar.....

x10

Replace Rose with D. Harris and you have a similar if not worse record than the Nets currently.

Rose is a super solid PG, in the same respect as Tony Parker is for the Spurs.

WATCH ROSE PLAY AND LOOK AT HIS STATS, THEY ARE BASICALLY THE SAME AS TONY PARKER'S!!! Tony Parker CANNOT win a ring without Tim Duncan. Lets not be foolish.