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DCB/LAL
02-26-2010, 11:55 AM
If Dwight Howard could develope a dominant offensive game with hook shots, post moves etc... How good could this guy be? Would he challenge Lebron in the future as the most dominant/best player in the league? He's only 24 years old and even without a sound offensive game the guy averages 18.7 PPG he's already a proven Defensive force averaging 2.8 Blks per game and even 1 steal per game and grabs an average of 13.5 Rebounds per game so just how good can Dwight be if he developed a dominant post game?

Young and Stupid
02-26-2010, 11:59 AM
If he became an above-average defensive player and continues to develop a low-post game it will be the LeBron vs Howard show for the next 7 years.

Gibby23
02-26-2010, 12:01 PM
If he became an above-average defensive player and continues to develop a low-post game it will be the LeBron vs Howard show for the next 7 years.

He is well above average on D, he sets the curve.

Young and Stupid
02-26-2010, 12:10 PM
He is well above average on D, he sets the curve.

Nope. He was awarded DPOY and sports writers love to praise him for his defense, but he is not an above-average defender. His on-ball defense is below-average and if he is playing an opposing center with some semblance of an offensive game he gets into foul trouble - and quick. He is a good off-ball defender, but more than 50% of his blocks are swatted out of bounds, meaning the team gets another possesion and the block is not utilized as a defensive-stop, just a highlight play. When Howard starts taking winning seriously he will not swatting balls into the 4th row and will start directing his blocks (similar to one of the greatest forwards of all-time - Bill Russell) to teammates in an attempt to start a fastbreak.

Believe me I want Howard to fufill his potential, he is one of my favorite players. It's sad that he doesn't have the same mind-set as Wade, Kobe and LeBron because he would the second best player in the league. I'm rooting for Howard because I think he can be one of the greatest centers ever, but I still contend that his defense is severely overrated.

Gibby23
02-26-2010, 12:19 PM
Nope. He was awarded DPOY and sports writers love to praise him for his defense, but he is not an above-average defender. His on-ball defense is below-average and if he is playing an opposing center with some semblance of an offensive game he gets into foul trouble - and quick. He is a good off-ball defender, but more than 50% of his blocks are swatted out of bounds, meaning the team gets another possesion and the block is not utilized as a defensive-stop, just a highlight play. When Howard starts taking winning seriously he will not swatting balls into the 4th row and will start directing his blocks (similar to one of the greatest forwards of all-time - Bill Russell) to teammates in an attempt to start a fastbreak.

Believe me I want Howard to fufill his potential, he is one of my favorite players. It's sad that he doesn't have the same mind-set as Wade, Kobe and LeBron because he would the second best player in the league. I'm rooting for Howard because I think he can be one of the greatest centers ever, but I still contend that his defense is severely overrated.

He has the best D rating in the NBA at 95. That is 3.5 better than the 2nd place guy and 4.2 better than the next center. He is not just a good defender, he is great. At center you need to be a good off ball defender to deter other players from driving to the basket.

Wcuracer29
02-26-2010, 12:21 PM
Nope. He was awarded DPOY and sports writers love to praise him for his defense, but he is not an above-average defender. His on-ball defense is below-average and if he is playing an opposing center with some semblance of an offensive game he gets into foul trouble - and quick. He is a good off-ball defender, but more than 50% of his blocks are swatted out of bounds, meaning the team gets another possesion and the block is not utilized as a defensive-stop, just a highlight play. When Howard starts taking winning seriously he will not swatting balls into the 4th row and will start directing his blocks (similar to one of the greatest forwards of all-time - Bill Russell) to teammates in an attempt to start a fastbreak.

Believe me I want Howard to fufill his potential, he is one of my favorite players. It's sad that he doesn't have the same mind-set as Wade, Kobe and LeBron because he would the second best player in the league. I'm rooting for Howard because I think he can be one of the greatest centers ever, but I still contend that his defense is severely overrated.

Ummm, Cleveland the other night? Against Shaq? Even at 37 Shaq still has a great offensive game and Dwight did an ABOVE AVERAGE defensive job against him, didn't get into foul trouble and even got Shaq into foul trouble. You can't look at points in that game either because Shaq took Marcin Gortat to school and scored the majority of his points against him.

rapjuicer06
02-26-2010, 12:46 PM
if howard can develop that bank shot of his a lot more then he'll go down as one of the best centers to ever play. if anyone plays him face up and he has that bank shot, that defender has no shot what-so-ever. if he plays to close howard blows right past him, if he plays off, then that jumper will kill them. howard is showing a lot of promise, especially in the second half of the season so far. and his defense is well above average...and to whoever said 50% of his blocks go out of bounds, well that means 50% of his blocks don't...and since he has more blocks than a good chunck of the league, he probably leads the league in blocks that stay in bounds as well

Raph12
02-26-2010, 01:03 PM
Nope. He was awarded DPOY and sports writers love to praise him for his defense, but he is not an above-average defender. His on-ball defense is below-average and if he is playing an opposing center with some semblance of an offensive game he gets into foul trouble - and quick. He is a good off-ball defender, but more than 50% of his blocks are swatted out of bounds, meaning the team gets another possesion and the block is not utilized as a defensive-stop, just a highlight play. When Howard starts taking winning seriously he will not swatting balls into the 4th row and will start directing his blocks (similar to one of the greatest forwards of all-time - Bill Russell) to teammates in an attempt to start a fastbreak.

Believe me I want Howard to fufill his potential, he is one of my favorite players. It's sad that he doesn't have the same mind-set as Wade, Kobe and LeBron because he would the second best player in the league. I'm rooting for Howard because I think he can be one of the greatest centers ever, but I still contend that his defense is severely overrated.

Dude you're way off the mark, Dwight is the Magic's roamer on defense, so he often leaves his man to help out his teammates, but his actual one-on-one defense, when he plays it, is the best in the NBA, with Perk as a close runner-up. Btw last I checked, Lebron blasts the ball into the 10th row and no one makes a big deal about it and Dwight's tried to tip the ball to himself a lot more nowadays and is even starting to catch the ball in mid-air to guarantee his team gets it.

To answer the thread question, Dwight can be as good as he's been in my sig (after the AS break):
28ppg-15rpg-2.5apg-1spg-4bpg

He just needs to really want it, which I don't know if he does, he's one of those guys who says if we get the W, the rest doesn't matter.

OrderOfCook
02-26-2010, 01:17 PM
He could become almost as good as Shaq used to be, but that's a lot to ask. He'll own the paint for the next 7 years and that's probably good enough to keep the Magic (or whatever his career team becomes) as contenders forever. The rest will be up to his team-mates.

Tribe
02-26-2010, 01:23 PM
He would be Olajuwon on steroids...would definately challenge as most dominant player in league

Young and Stupid
02-26-2010, 01:27 PM
Dude you're way off the mark, Dwight is the Magic's roamer on defense, so he often leaves his man to help out his teammates, but his actual one-on-one defense, when he plays it, is the best in the NBA, with Perk as a close runner-up. Btw last I checked, Lebron blasts the ball into the 10th row and no one makes a big deal about it and Dwight's tried to tip the ball to himself a lot more nowadays and is even starting to catch the ball in mid-air to guarantee his team gets it.

To answer the thread question, Dwight can be as good as he's been in my sig (after the AS break):
28ppg-15rpg-2.5apg-1spg-4bpg

He just needs to really want it, which I don't know if he does, he's one of those guys who says if we get the W, the rest doesn't matter.

Yeah, I agree I was mini-baiting to see how Magic fans felt about Howard. I agree that he is a great defender, but I still contend that he should stop swatting balls into the crowd because it would be a lot more beneficial to eliminate opposing teams possessions. Like I said, Howard is a great defender, but I do think he could get a lot better.

Bucsfan
02-26-2010, 01:29 PM
im soooo glad there is finally a thread about this! cause this hasnt been discussed over and over again in other threads

what a original idea, nobody ever talks about howard in the nba forum, great new idea!

Gibby23
02-26-2010, 01:31 PM
im soooo glad there is finally a thread about this! cause this hasnt been discussed over and over again in other threads

what a original idea, nobody ever talks about howard in the nba forum, great new idea!

Then you shouldn't post in it.

madiaz3
02-26-2010, 01:32 PM
Dwight with Olajuwon's technical skill and talent vs. Lebron with a legit 3 point shot

Raph12
02-26-2010, 01:40 PM
Dwight with Olajuwon's technical skill and talent vs. Lebron with a legit 3 point shot

If Dwight learned the dream shake... :drool:

Raph12
02-26-2010, 01:44 PM
Yeah, I agree I was mini-baiting to see how Magic fans felt about Howard. I agree that he is a great defender, but I still contend that he should stop swatting balls into the crowd because it would be a lot more beneficial to eliminate opposing teams possessions. Like I said, Howard is a great defender, but I do think he could get a lot better.

But you don't know how much of an impact slamming balls into the crowd has. Dwight literally scares guys from coming inside because they don't want to get embarassed.

It's actually quite funny, watch the next time Dwight plays a dominant slasher (Lebron, Kobe, Melo, Wade) and then watch after he blocks even one shot badly. They literally see him in their path to the basket and they either change directions or pass the ball immediately.

Btw he's catching balls in mid-air when he get's high enough and tipping it when he knows he can get to it, he only slams it when they're too close to the baseline and he knows it's hard to recover.

Raph12
02-26-2010, 01:45 PM
im soooo glad there is finally a thread about this! cause this hasnt been discussed over and over again in other threads

what a original idea, nobody ever talks about howard in the nba forum, great new idea!

Lol yeah, I know it isn't good publicity he gets, but it's publicity none-the-less.

You'd think he's the third most popular player in the league... Besides Lebron and Rose of course. ;)

Wcuracer29
02-26-2010, 01:55 PM
But you don't know how much of an impact slamming balls into the crowd has. Dwight literally scares guys from coming inside because they don't want to get embarassed.

It's actually quite funny, watch the next time Dwight plays a dominant slasher (Lebron, Kobe, Melo, Wade) and then watch after he blocks even one shot badly. They literally see him in their path to the basket and they either change directions or pass the ball immediately.

Btw he's catching balls in mid-air when he get's high enough and tipping it when he knows he can get to it, he only slams it when they're too close to the baseline and he knows it's hard to recover.

Part of Dwight's "Killer instinct" as eluded to in another thread created to bash Howard that's on the top forum list. He may not be Shaq, but maybe he doesn't want to be a loud mouth- I agree you have to be confident and think you're the best, to keep pushing yourself, but Shaq is just a down-right a-hole sometimes.

Carey
02-26-2010, 01:58 PM
Nope. He was awarded DPOY and sports writers love to praise him for his defense, but he is not an above-average defender. His on-ball defense is below-average and if he is playing an opposing center with some semblance of an offensive game he gets into foul trouble - and quick. He is a good off-ball defender, but more than 50% of his blocks are swatted out of bounds, meaning the team gets another possesion and the block is not utilized as a defensive-stop, just a highlight play. When Howard starts taking winning seriously he will not swatting balls into the 4th row and will start directing his blocks (similar to one of the greatest forwards of all-time - Bill Russell) to teammates in an attempt to start a fastbreak.

Believe me I want Howard to fufill his potential, he is one of my favorite players. It's sad that he doesn't have the same mind-set as Wade, Kobe and LeBron because he would the second best player in the league. I'm rooting for Howard because I think he can be one of the greatest centers ever, but I still contend that his defense is severely overrated.

He can be scary good, i think part of it is his teammates have to feed him more. Regardless how hard he works in the offseason he's only gonna become a better post player and decision maker through reps, his teammates have kinda stunted his growth in these areas. Defensively i think he is a little overrated because of the weak side blocks and defensive rebounds but i dont think he's below average. He's a pretty decent post defender, he does get into foul trouble some but even the premier post defenders like a Perkins get into foul trouble.

Bucsfan
02-26-2010, 01:59 PM
Lol yeah, I know it isn't good publicity he gets, but it's publicity none-the-less.

You'd think he's the third most popular player in the league... Besides Lebron and Rose of course. ;)

i was actually about to make a thread on rose, because i feel that subject is lacking too

Blackjack24
02-26-2010, 02:16 PM
I've always wondered what in the hell Patrick Ewing is doing down there. He was hired explicitly to be Howard's offensive mentor / coach. And years later, Howard doesn't have any semblance of improvement in his offensive game. And his defense, while improved, was already there.

What is Ewing's job? Who insists on retaining him? [And for that matter, why does he think he should be a coach, when he can't improve the one player to whom he is assigned?]

Raph12
02-26-2010, 02:23 PM
Part of Dwight's "Killer instinct" as eluded to in another thread created to bash Howard that's on the top forum list. He may not be Shaq, but maybe he doesn't want to be a loud mouth- I agree you have to be confident and think you're the best, to keep pushing yourself, but Shaq is just a down-right a-hole sometimes.

Dwight's not as much of a talker as Shaq, but he's shown that he can get mean too. In the game against the Cavs, Varejao kept locking Dwight's arm so he couldn't get the off rebound so after the second time in a row, Dwight just pulled him to the ground, there was a no-call and he grilled Varejao down. He is getting more confident with his game, which in turn is making him a better player, he just won't ever be that talker that Shaq is.


He can be scary good, i think part of it is his teammates have to feed him more. Regardless how hard he works in the offseason he's only gonna become a better post player and decision maker through reps, his teammates have kinda stunted his growth in these areas. Defensively i think he is a little overrated because of the weak side blocks and defensive rebounds but i dont think he's below average. He's a pretty decent post defender, he does get into foul trouble some but even the premier post defenders like a Perkins get into foul trouble.

I agree that his teammates have kept him down and made a thread on it a while back. He's always been the 2nd/3rd/4th option on his own team which has stunted his offensive growth. He's been playing as the #1 option since the Lakers game and it's paid dividends (see my sig [last 18 games]) and he looks like a man possessed since the AS break. As for the defensive end, he's underrated because people don't understand the impact his presence has just by him being on the floor. Next time you watch a Cavs game vs the Magic, watch Lebron, when Dwight's near the basket, he won't try to attack, the second he's not in view, Lebron's going straight in for a layup/dunk. And that applies to every great slasher in the league, when you know a 275lb animal who can reach the top of the backboard is guarding the basket, you tend not to want to go in there. As for the fouls, Dwight gets 1 or 2 off fouls per game (moving picks/guys flopping), which not only hurts his minutes but it adds to his turnovers. Rarely does he commit fouls guarding guys one-on-one.

Raph12
02-26-2010, 02:23 PM
i was actually about to make a thread on rose, because i feel that subject is lacking too

Yeah, you get started on that one, while I create a Lebron better than every player in league history thread.

Wcuracer29
02-26-2010, 02:28 PM
Dwight's not as much of a talker as Shaq, but he's shown that he can get mean too. In the game against the Cavs, Varejao kept locking Dwight's arm so he couldn't get the off rebound so after the second time in a row, Dwight just pulled him to the ground, there was a no-call and he grilled Varejao down. He is getting more confident with his game, which in turn is making him a better player, he just won't ever be that talker that Shaq is.



Dwight must have flicked Varejao in the arm and he fell down/flopped looking for a foul call. Somebody needs to punch Varejao in the face so he realizes what a real foul is.

I agree, Dwight needs to get pissed when people lock him up like Varejao or play "hack a Dwight" because if he just lets it go, they're going to continue to do it. It's like picking on the big kid on the playground cause you know he doesn't have the hair on his rear end to do anything- pretty sono you're going to piss him off enough that he just takes over.

sNaKeS
02-26-2010, 02:33 PM
He could become almost as good as Shaq used to be, but that's a lot to ask. He'll own the paint for the next 7 years and that's probably good enough to keep the Magic (or whatever his career team becomes) as contenders forever. The rest will be up to his team-mates.

This guy is right on the $$$$$. As far as were concerned, there may not be another dominant big man in the nba for a long time so dwight has this area cornered unless yao comes back healthy. I agree completely that he will be a lesser man's shaq but that's not a bad thing. But he could also become better than shaq also because lets remember he's only 24 and is now developing into an offensive force with his running hook shots and the bank shot from just outside the paint and his free throw percentage has increased a little this year.

Bucsfan
02-26-2010, 02:37 PM
Yeah, you get started on that one, while I create a Lebron better than every player in league history thread.

ok sounds like a plan, im thinking maybe throwing in some threads about the upcoming FA market also, or maybe a thread about the knicks having alot of cap room, im not sure people even realize that the knicks have cap room this offseason, i better post quickly

Raph12
02-26-2010, 02:40 PM
ok sounds like a plan, im thinking maybe throwing in some threads about the upcoming FA market also, or maybe a thread about the knicks having alot of cap room, im not sure people even realize that the knicks have cap room this offseason, i better post quickly

Great! I'll get started on the Stephan Curry for ROY thread and the Kevin Durant for greatest scorer of all time and 2nd best in the NBA thread.

And plus, you can take your time it's not like anyone else will be posting threads like this anytime soon. :p

Bucsfan
02-26-2010, 02:45 PM
Great! I'll get started on the Stephan Curry for ROY thread and the Kevin Durant for greatest scorer of all time and 2nd best in the NBA thread.

And plus, you can take your time it's not like anyone else will be posting threads like this anytime soon. :p

lol...ill take my time

Raph12
02-26-2010, 02:46 PM
lol...ill take my time

Sounds like a plan... Lol.

MagicDojo
02-26-2010, 06:13 PM
I've always wondered what in the hell Patrick Ewing is doing down there. He was hired explicitly to be Howard's offensive mentor / coach. And years later, Howard doesn't have any semblance of improvement in his offensive game. And his defense, while improved, was already there.

What is Ewing's job? Who insists on retaining him? [And for that matter, why does he think he should be a coach, when he can't improve the one player to whom he is assigned?]


There are 3 articles today talking about Howards improved offense on NBA dot com. One of them details how much worse Lebrons numbers are when D12 is on the floor to those of you saying hes not even "above average" defensivly. Sigh.

samxeyeam
02-26-2010, 07:01 PM
To add onto why Dwight swats shots into the crowd... There's a guy coming towards the basket at full speed, the ball has momentum and when the ball is released, doesnt matter how soft he lays it up, the ball still has alot of forward momentum so to counter-act the speed the ball is coming at the defender, the defender has to react that much faster to get his hand between the ball and the rim... So naturally, the ball is gonna go flying in the opposite direction... Would you rather stop a high percentage shot and let them have another possession which in return might let the team take a lower percentage shot in the next possession or just watch the player lay it up right under the basket? And how some people mentioned, dwight usually tries to tap it to another player or even snatch the ball in midair to gain control... He's doing the best he can in different situations...