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View Full Version : Did Commissioner Stern help elevate, Lebron, Kobe and Durant?



fairandbalanced
02-25-2010, 11:34 PM
After a season that saw scoring down in the NBA, and Kobe getting shut-down by T Prince in the finals, David Stern instituted the hand-check rule. Coincidentally or maybe as a result of rule changes, we saw Kobe explode to average more than 32ppg and elevated himself to be the best in the NBA. Couple years later, Lebron was struggling offensively, he was often called for traveling, and thus David Stern got involved again, this time he legalized the crab dribble. This season, we see Lebron practically unstoppable and en-route to a career high field goal percentage. Hand check fouls has helped scorers like Kobe and Durant become prolific scorers in the league. I can't envision Durant dropping 25+ points for 27 straight games if the hand check rule was not instituted. My question is, does David Stern get involved in changing rules targeted to certain players, just to help the NBA become more entertaining?

fairandbalanced
02-25-2010, 11:40 PM
I hope this does not get heated but it seems to me that Kobe and Durrant are good scorers because you can't touch them. If they was in the NBA in the 80's, Kobe will be a good scorer still but Durrant will be average.

bal_ravens
02-25-2010, 11:47 PM
It can be said about that for everybody.

I think the elite players in the league (Lebron, Kobe, Durant and Melo) would still be amazing players and get their stats.

acehole
02-25-2010, 11:50 PM
yes, david stern has constantly made rule changes to help the flow of the offense, no longer do we see grind it out defensive type teams, its all about offense and more offense. It makes the game more entertaining to the casual fans and thats what stern wants.

Raph12
02-25-2010, 11:57 PM
Funny how you forgot to mention Wade... Guess he hasn't had the benefits of star treatment. :rolleyes:

ko8e24
02-26-2010, 12:34 AM
Kobe made and elevated Kobe. Durant has made Durant and soon will elevate Durant.

/thread

still1ballin
02-26-2010, 12:38 AM
no

Kakaroach
02-26-2010, 12:43 AM
Not just the players mentioned, but the hand-check rule has helped all players that take the ball to the rim a lot.

ARMIN12NBA
02-26-2010, 12:51 AM
The hand-check rule was created back in 1995 if I'm not mistaken...and Kobe already exploded for 30+ PPG in 2003 (before 2005) and had that huge streak of 40+ games (2nd to Wilt).

_KB24_
02-26-2010, 12:51 AM
The crab-dribble rule is ridiculous. Why not allow goal tending as well if your going to allow travelling?

philab
02-26-2010, 12:57 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but . . .

First, I'm pretty sure the whole "legalize the crab-dribble" thing was bull-****. The league didn't technically legalize anything (despite what was reported); it just clarified the rule as it regarded the "crab-dribble."

Second, what LeBron did was not the crab-dribble. He called it that, but what he did was just a travel, pure and simple.


And again, anyone is free to correct me here, but I think this is all accurate.

ManRam
02-26-2010, 01:02 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but . . .

First, I'm pretty sure the whole "legalize the crab-dribble" thing was bull-****. The league didn't technically legalize anything (despite what was reported); it just clarified the rule as it regarded the "crab-dribble."

Second, what LeBron did was not the crab-dribble. He called it that, but what he did was just a travel, pure and simple.


And again, anyone is free to correct me here, but I think this is all accurate.

You are positively, 100% correct. Another huge myth overblown because it's LeBron. The crab-dribble rule didn't change because of LeBron...it always existed. LBJ tried to say that's what he did, but it clearly wasn't.

Another fair and balanced thread by fairandbalanced. Wonder why no mention of Wade was made??? :rolleyes:

Hellcrooner
02-26-2010, 01:14 AM
Yes he is been constantly helping players not only with rules but alos forcing the Nba websites, and tv media etc to showcase certain players SHoe companys and sponsors in general play a hughe part in hyping determinante players.

This has happened since his first prototipe for doing it Michael Jordan, worked so well for the league.

Of course when the Showcased ude has it IN HIM no prob, they are good and live to the manipulatd hype, KObe, Wade, Lebron, Jordan when its all hype it eventually shows, like iverson, Francis Marbury.

philab
02-26-2010, 01:27 AM
Yes he is been constantly helping players not only with rules but alos forcing the Nba websites, and tv media etc to showcase certain players SHoe companys and sponsors in general play a hughe part in hyping determinante players.

This has happened since his first prototipe for doing it Michael Jordan, worked so well for the league.

Of course when the Showcased ude has it IN HIM no prob, they are good and live to the manipulatd hype, KObe, Wade, Lebron, Jordan when its all hype it eventually shows, like iverson, Francis Marbury.

Don't even think about lumping Iverson in with Francis and Marbury. That's absolutely ridiculous.

As for the "Stern hyped . . ." part: first, there's never been an indication that STERN and not just the NBA's marketing crew devised this; and second, this "hype phenomenon" is far from unique in today's culture. It's the en vogue marketing strategy, and it does get results.

Jaji
02-26-2010, 01:33 AM
What are you talking about? They stopped hand checking back in the Derrick Harper days.

JNA17
02-26-2010, 01:34 AM
failanduncoordinated does it again. :facepalm:

Jaji
02-26-2010, 01:41 AM
The crab-dribble rule is ridiculous. Why not allow goal tending as well if your going to allow travelling?

If Lebron travels what's the big deal? They've ALWAYS allowed traveling in the NBA. Everyone knows 2 steps means 4 or 5 (if necessary) or even 6 (if you're Patrick Ewing). Ironically I did see LBJ get called for steps in tonight's game against Boston. Couldn't believe it. I forgot what the signal was they call it so rarely. I was like "False start? WTF?"

_KB24_
02-26-2010, 02:06 AM
If Lebron travels what's the big deal? They've ALWAYS allowed traveling in the NBA. Everyone knows 2 steps means 4 or 5 (if necessary) or even 6 (if you're Patrick Ewing). Ironically I did see LBJ get called for steps in tonight's game against Boston. Couldn't believe it. I forgot what the signal was they call it so rarely. I was like "False start? WTF?"

I'm not nitpicking on Lebron, I mentioned it because I hate how players use the "hesitate dribble" and drive it in. It's ridiculous. It's silly how one of the simplest plays to call in basketball is not enforced properly.

HeatBBall
02-26-2010, 09:09 AM
The crab-dribble rule is ridiculous. Why not allow goal tending as well if your going to allow travelling?

I couldn't agree more. Its a basic rule and they have now modified it for Lebron.

Jaji
02-26-2010, 10:07 AM
I couldn't agree more. Its a basic rule and they have now modified it for Lebron.

If you look closely, and I mean really, really close... you can see LeBron actually does slip another dribble in there between his 2nd and 3rd steps. It's just so quick and efficient, the naked eye can't detect it in real time. And don't bother youtubing it either because there's no way you can resolution fine enough to see what I'm talking about.

It's like Iverson's crossover. Everyone used to complain he was carrying but what was happening is he was moving so fast that time itself actually slowed down making it look like he was holding the ball out there longer than he really was.

Come on folks, this isn't rocket science.

G-Funk
02-26-2010, 11:32 AM
1st of all the handcheck rule was created before Kobe came into the league, secondly Kobe did not get shut down by 1 player(Prince), All 5 players shut him down. That's just a straight up FAIL

BTW Durant and Kobe would still be great scores in the 80's.

Ezekial
02-26-2010, 11:59 AM
If you look closely, and I mean really, really close... you can see LeBron actually does slip another dribble in there between his 2nd and 3rd steps. It's just so quick and efficient, the naked eye can't detect it in real time. And don't bother youtubing it either because there's no way you can resolution fine enough to see what I'm talking about.

It's like Iverson's crossover. Everyone used to complain he was carrying but what was happening is he was moving so fast that time itself actually slowed down making it look like he was holding the ball out there longer than he really was.

Come on folks, this isn't rocket science.

And we have a winner....!!!!!.....!!!!!!

td0tsfinest
02-26-2010, 12:06 PM
I could believe that. The nba lives on individual marketing more than any other team sport and as much as people say see defence matters, defence doesn't sell. NBA enthusiasts like myself and some of the fellow PSD posters, I'm sure, would love to watch a great defensive game but it's the scoring, the dunking, the three-point shooting that attracks the new fans.

KBfrom8to24
02-26-2010, 12:09 PM
After a season that saw scoring down in the NBA, and Kobe getting shut-down by T Prince in the finals, David Stern instituted the hand-check rule. Coincidentally or maybe as a result of rule changes, we saw Kobe explode to average more than 32ppg and elevated himself to be the best in the NBA. Couple years later, Lebron was struggling offensively, he was often called for traveling, and thus David Stern got involved again, this time he legalized the crab dribble. This season, we see Lebron practically unstoppable and en-route to a career high field goal percentage. Hand check fouls has helped scorers like Kobe and Durant become prolific scorers in the league. I can't envision Durant dropping 25+ points for 27 straight games if the hand check rule was not instituted. My question is, does David Stern get involved in changing rules targeted to certain players, just to help the NBA become more entertaining?

What about your boy DWade?:confused::confused::confused:

DCB/LAL
02-26-2010, 12:13 PM
After a season that saw scoring down in the NBA, and Kobe getting shut-down by T Prince in the finals, David Stern instituted the hand-check rule. Coincidentally or maybe as a result of rule changes, we saw Kobe explode to average more than 32ppg and elevated himself to be the best in the NBA. Couple years later, Lebron was struggling offensively, he was often called for traveling, and thus David Stern got involved again, this time he legalized the crab dribble. This season, we see Lebron practically unstoppable and en-route to a career high field goal percentage. Hand check fouls has helped scorers like Kobe and Durant become prolific scorers in the league. I can't envision Durant dropping 25+ points for 27 straight games if the hand check rule was not instituted. My question is, does David Stern get involved in changing rules targeted to certain players, just to help the NBA become more entertaining?

Yeah im sure Shaq leaving and Kobe having to take on more of the work load had nothing to do with Kobe leading "Kobe to explode and average 32ppg" right? :rolleyes:

fairandbalanced
02-26-2010, 02:25 PM
1st of all the handcheck rule was created before Kobe came into the league, secondly Kobe did not get shut down by 1 player(Prince), All 5 players shut him down. That's just a straight up FAIL

BTW Durant and Kobe would still be great scores in the 80's.

Some of y'all need some NBA history lesson, the hand-check rule was enforced after the Lakers fall to Detroit in the finals. A brief history for y'all...

2000-01: • Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to Point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player.
• No contact with either hands or forearms by defenders except in the frontcourt below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may use his forearm only.

2001-02: • A new defensive three-second rule will prohibit a defensive player from remaining in the lane for more than three consecutive seconds without closely guarding an offensive player.
2004-05
• New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game.
2008-09: Crab dribble legalized.



All these rules in my opinion was put in place to limit the big man's effectiveness on defense and to help guards gain an upper hand on offense.....the rules were made when Kobe was in the league.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

philab
02-26-2010, 03:19 PM
Some of y'all need some NBA history lesson, the hand-check rule was enforced after the Lakers fall to Detroit in the finals. A brief history for y'all...

2000-01: Defender may not use his forearm, shoulder, hip or hand to reroute or hold-up an offensive player going from point A to Point B or one who is attempting to come around a legal screen set by another offensive player.
No contact with either hands or forearms by defenders except in the frontcourt below the free throw line extended in which case the defender may use his forearm only.

2001-02: A new defensive three-second rule will prohibit a defensive player from remaining in the lane for more than three consecutive seconds without closely guarding an offensive player.
2004-05
New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game.
2008-09: Crab dribble legalized.



All these rules in my opinion was put in place to limit the big man's effectiveness on defense and to help guards gain an upper hand on offense.....the rules were made when Kobe was in the league.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

Nice try.

What you posted only runs through 2007-08. So your "2008-09: Crab dribble legalized" assertion is bull-****.

Also, nothing in there mentions a "crab dribble."

Again, the league clarified the rule. It did NOT legalize some form of traveling. Quit making **** up.

PHX2daDEATH
02-26-2010, 04:44 PM
I remember teams like Cleveland in the mid nineties were scoring 60-70 points a game, I think thats where they got the 8 second rule.. not sure when the handcheck rule came into play but it was after Jordan had retired; Jordan in todays NBA easily gets 40-45 points a game. Remember the Knicks in the Nineties? the hand check was something they had perfected.. Mason, Oakley and Ewing.. I think the NBA needs to institute more toughness..it'll make the games more competitive and more interesting to watch.. I mean is there really a team this year that is known for hard-nosed defense? I didnt think so.. everything on D nowadays is about length and lateral quickness..the Physical aspect has gone out the window. Thats why i don't get a team like Memphis if they could be more Physical on defense they'd be a lock for the Playoffs..Charlotte, they are quick and fly around the ball but they aren't that physical.

Niro
02-26-2010, 04:53 PM
no not really..kobe and lebron are the best in the game and durant is just great they dont need help from stern

king4day
02-26-2010, 05:00 PM
Good question.
It's possible, however, Kobe didn't have Shaq since the rule was in place. So for him it might be coincidence as the scoring burden was now placed on him (and the almighty, smush parker).
I didn't know the crab dribble was allowed.

Bruno
02-26-2010, 05:13 PM
After a season that saw scoring down in the NBA, and Kobe getting shut-down by T Prince in the finals, David Stern instituted the hand-check rule. Coincidentally or maybe as a result of rule changes, we saw Kobe explode to average more than 32ppg and elevated himself to be the best in the NBA. Couple years later, Lebron was struggling offensively, he was often called for traveling, and thus David Stern got involved again, this time he legalized the crab dribble. This season, we see Lebron practically unstoppable and en-route to a career high field goal percentage. Hand check fouls has helped scorers like Kobe and Durant become prolific scorers in the league. I can't envision Durant dropping 25+ points for 27 straight games if the hand check rule was not instituted. My question is, does David Stern get involved in changing rules targeted to certain players, just to help the NBA become more entertaining?

Could this thread be any more factually inaccurate? The hand check rule was not instituted after the 2004 finals. Hand-checking was eliminated for the 1994-1995 NBA season. For the 1997-1998 season, players were no longer permitted to use forearms to impeded the progress of an offensive players facing the basket. For the 2001-2002 season, illegal defenses were eliminated in their entirety.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/04/22/aldridge.defenses/

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

Even if what you said about when the rule was put into place was true- Bryant didn't average 32 points per game the following season after Detroit, he averaged 27.6 the following year in 2004-2005. Plus, he averaged 30 ppg in 2002-2003, the year before we played the Pistons. Even if your garbage facts were true, your point would be completely irrelevant.

For the 2004-2005 NBA season, "New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game." Do you know what the word curtail means??? It means to reduce in extent or quality.


You fail to even mention the legality of zone defenses. Zones weren't allowed before 2001-2002 season, surely players who played before then benefited from never having to play against one. See the 2008 NBA finals.

The facts you use to argue your point are completely and utterly false; you only state the obvious, that the game is faster and that more points are being scored. But that is not because of Bryant, LeBron, or Durant, the formation of these rule chances happened before these guys even entered the league. Threads like this are an embarrassment to the forum. Mods should close this garbage, or leave it open to expose how ridiculous of a poster fairandbalanced is. Get your facts straight.

fairandbalanced
02-26-2010, 05:31 PM
Could this thread be any more factually inaccurate? The hand check rule was not instituted after the 2004 finals. Hand-checking was eliminated for the 1994-1995 NBA season. For the 1997-1998 season, players were no longer permitted to use forearms to impeded the progress of an offensive players facing the basket. For the 2001-2002 season, illegal defenses were eliminated in their entirety.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/04/22/aldridge.defenses/

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

Even if what you said about when the rule was put into place was true- Bryant didn't average 32 points per game the following season after Detroit, he averaged 27.6 the following year in 2004-2005. Plus, he averaged 30 ppg in 2002-2003, the year before we played the Pistons. Even if your garbage facts were true, your point would be completely irrelevant.

For the 2004-2005 NBA season, "New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game." Do you know what the word curtail means??? It means to reduce in extent or quality.


You fail to even mention the legality of zone defenses. Zones weren't allowed before 2001-2002 season, surely players who played before then benefited from never having to play against one. See the 2008 NBA finals.

The facts you use to argue your point are completely and utterly false; you only state the obvious, that the game is faster and that more points are being scored. But that is not because of Bryant, LeBron, or Durant, the formation of these rule chances happened before these guys even entered the league. Threads like this are an embarrassment to the forum. Mods should close this garbage, or leave it open to expose how ridiculous of a poster fairandbalanced is. Get your facts straight.

"You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts" Harry Reid

Bruno
02-26-2010, 05:35 PM
"You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts" Harry Reid

Brilliant.

Twinsfan24
02-26-2010, 05:52 PM
Dvid Stern is as crooked as they come... Its no longer about the integrity of the game its all about money. So how can you tell me that Tim donaguhey is wrong now. Of course He told the refs which teams are going to win that night. I dont watch the NBA anymore. Just because you are a superstar doesnt mean you should get the calls and vice versa if your not well known not get the calls. Its just pathetic and the more stern does the worse the league gets. Sports are supposed to be about the love of the game not the love of money, yet very few athletes actually care about the game and instead are worried about their next big contract. Same with stern worrying about ratings, Alot of people are sick of how "fake" it is becoming. Ya the NBA is losing 400 million maybe they should look at themselves and how the league is being run and less of Why is no one coming to the games?? it all starts with Stern and continues down the line of big market owners.

fairandbalanced
02-26-2010, 05:55 PM
Dvid Stern is as crooked as they come... Its no longer about the integrity of the game its all about money. So how can you tell me that Tim donaguhey is wrong now. Of course He told the refs which teams are going to win that night. I dont watch the NBA anymore. Just because you are a superstar doesnt mean you should get the calls and vice versa if your not well known not get the calls. Its just pathetic and the more stern does the worse the league gets. Sports are supposed to be about the love of the game not the love of money, yet very few athletes actually care about the game and instead are worried about their next big contract. Same with stern worrying about ratings, Alot of people are sick of how "fake" it is becoming. Ya the NBA is losing 400 million maybe they should look at themselves and how the league is being run and less of Why is no one coming to the games?? it all starts with Stern and continues down the line of big market owners.

You my friend, is a genius :clap::clap::clap:

Tony_Starks
02-26-2010, 06:21 PM
Wow this thread is a HUGE reach. So many errors its hard to point them all out but I'll just start with: When did David Stern legalize the "crab dribble?" Please tell me the rule that allows this and when it was instituted.