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View Full Version : Is Jason Kidd an elite PG?



fairandbalanced
02-25-2010, 07:05 PM
Do you think Jason Kidd is still an elite pg in the NBA?

Ragun
02-25-2010, 07:07 PM
no.

Vinny642
02-25-2010, 07:07 PM
No, your title looks off with "and"

Raph12
02-25-2010, 07:18 PM
Elite as in Top 5?... No.

Kakaroach
02-25-2010, 07:19 PM
Yeah not top 5 for sure, so that means he isn't elite in my book.

bigsams50
02-25-2010, 07:20 PM
Not elite, but still pretty darn good

Young2Kinsler
02-25-2010, 07:21 PM
Just because he might not be top 5 doesn't mean he isn't elite. He is still one of, if not the best passing PG in the NBA, probably the best rebounder, pretty good on defense, and has really mastered the spot up 3. Kidd has looked like a 27 yr old this season.

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 07:23 PM
Have you seen his resume? And the way he's playing lately looks like the he has jump in his step the way he's shooting the ball and rebounding and distributing he's playing great.

RaptorizedKevin
02-25-2010, 07:37 PM
hes not elite anymore because his age caught up to him, and affected his game. but hes arguably one of the best Point guards to play this game. At the moment, no he isnt an elite.

Steve nash. deron williams. chris paul are like the top 3.

Chronz
02-25-2010, 07:41 PM
Yes, too bad people dont look past scoring averages.

ManRam
02-25-2010, 07:46 PM
Yes, too bad people dont look past scoring averages.

This is true, but still...how many players can be elite? I think Paul, Nash and Williams are absolutely elite. I think Rondo and Rose are better. Maybe even Billups or Tyreke.

He's great. I was very happy when he made the all-star game (not happy he didn't play much)...but my point is that you can't toss the word "elite" around too generously.

Angel2Maverick
02-25-2010, 07:58 PM
he is not top 5, but damm his level of play sure makes it look that way

Mavrix
02-25-2010, 07:59 PM
Just because he might not be top 5 doesn't mean he isn't elite. He is still one of, if not the best passing PG in the NBA, probably the best rebounder, pretty good on defense, and has really mastered the spot up 3. Kidd has looked like a 27 yr old this season.

x29375293857

xxcubs22xx
02-25-2010, 07:59 PM
Elite? No. At least not anymore.

Legendary? possibly

Purple&Gold24
02-25-2010, 08:07 PM
Not Elite anymore...Amazing for his age though.

teckmunny
02-25-2010, 08:25 PM
No he is not elite! Hes good for his age though!

dev0
02-25-2010, 08:29 PM
yes, one of the best of all time and he's still knocking down key three pointers + grabbing rebounds and running the break, + and leading a team over the Lakers (last night)

AI4MVP
02-25-2010, 08:31 PM
you guys dont know what point guard is anymore. just becuz hes not putting up 20 points like chris and deron or isnt flashy like d rose doesnt mean hes not elite. Jason Kidd IS elite, and if i had to start a championship team with a point guard for ONE year not considering the future, J Kidd would be in my top three. Jason Kidd is for sure an elite point guard no question about it

deuces
02-25-2010, 08:31 PM
he's not elite but he is a solid pointguard that still knows how to run a team

Tribe
02-25-2010, 08:45 PM
Not elite anymore but still valuable to any team

JJ_JKidd
02-25-2010, 09:03 PM
Hes not gonna be considered as one here in PSD because most of the posters here are concerned over STATS and because most kids here in PSD have just watched the NBA so PG for them= Rose, Evans, CP3 etc.

td0tsfinest
02-25-2010, 09:07 PM
Wow everyone is saying he's not elite so why who's voting for him then?

Young2Kinsler
02-25-2010, 09:08 PM
Elite? No. At least not anymore.

Legendary? possibly

Possibly? Without a DOUBT he is one of the best 5 PG of all time

jlee3936
02-25-2010, 09:16 PM
i agree with everyone who said you need to look past his ppg. you really have to watch a lot of mavs games to see his effect on both sides of the ball. has made this once half court offense only team into a running team, always looking to fastbreak. when the fastbreak isnt there, he dictates who the ball goes to and runs the offense. not like la or cleveland where the kobe and bron are bringing the ball up court. you can even notice his absence whenever barea or beaubouis come in, they just dont know how to run the team like kidd can. still the best rebounding pg in the game, and an alright defender (except when facing the likes of tony parker, cp3.. but even those guys arent the best defenders). i would say he is elite.

AI4MVP
02-25-2010, 09:19 PM
Hes not gonna be considered as one here in PSD because most of the posters here are concerned over STATS and because most kids here in PSD have just watched the NBA so PG for them= Rose, Evans, CP3 etc.


exactly what i said. this is exacly correct

jkiddvc20
02-25-2010, 09:29 PM
He makes everyone on that team so much better. He is elite and is going down as a top 5 PG of all time.

MacFitz92
02-25-2010, 09:34 PM
hes not elite anymore because his age caught up to him, and affected his game. but hes arguably one of the best Point guards to play this game. At the moment, no he isnt an elite.

Steve nash. deron williams. chris paul are like the top 3.

First things first. Elite is an adjective, so nobody can be "an elite", unless we are talking about Halo, which we are not.

Second thing, you have obviously not seen Jason Kidd play this year, as well as anyone who has said he is not "elite".

Third thing, let me explain to you why he IS elite. Last week on 2/17/10, he had 18 points, 10 assists, 7 steals, 7 rebounds. That flirts with a quadruple double, and he has had games like that throughout the season.

Oh, and D-Will is an elite PG right? Well, what the hell, statistically they are within .8 apg of eachother. Jason Kidd is the better rebounder, leader in steals, and better blocker. Oh, But D-Will has 8pg more than Kidd right? Who gives a damn? D-Will has to score, D-Will has to be the one to score for the Jazz, but Kidd? He's got more options to go to than D-Will so he doesn't have to be the scorer.

Not to mention J-Kidd shoots 8% better behind the arc.

AI4MVP
02-25-2010, 09:41 PM
Jason Kidds passing, court vision, basketball IQ will keep him an elite point guard til the day he retires

ragee
02-25-2010, 09:49 PM
This is true, but still...how many players can be elite? I think Paul, Nash and Williams are absolutely elite. I think Rondo and Rose are better. Maybe even Billups or Tyreke.

He's great. I was very happy when he made the all-star game (not happy he didn't play much)...but my point is that you can't toss the word "elite" around too generously.

Wait... If you're going to put Nash in, you should put Kidd there as well... I am not saying Kidd is still an elite pg because for me, Paul and D-will are the only elite pg in the league... But if you are going to put Nash in, why not put in Kidd? Both are terrific passers... Sure Nash can still score but he plays zero D... Kidd is not a great scorer but is one hell of acrebounder for a pg and a decent defender (great if we don't include speed issues)...

MacFitz92
02-25-2010, 09:57 PM
Jason Kidds passing, court vision, basketball IQ will keep him an elite point guard til the day he retires

Amen god damnit.

MacFitz92
02-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Wait... If you're going to put Nash in, you should put Kidd there as well... I am not saying Kidd is still an elite pg because for me, Paul and D-will are the only elite pg in the league... But if you are going to put Nash in, why not put in Kidd? Both are terrific passers... Sure Nash can still score but he plays zero D... Kidd is not a great scorer but is one hell of acrebounder for a pg and a decent defender (great if we don't include speed issues)...

Jason Kidd is one of the few true PGs left.

You know nothing if you think that Nash is not great as of now. IMO he's the best in the business, followed by Billups, then D-Will, then Kidd.

Strumpy
02-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Jason Kidds passing, court vision, basketball IQ will keep him an elite point guard til the day he retires

This.

Legitimate
02-25-2010, 10:37 PM
lol jason kidd is not a elite pg in the nba

IU Hoosiers 3
02-25-2010, 10:51 PM
i like how us mavs fans are stickin up for our boy..the guy is a heck of a player and has significantly helped every team he's played on. I say elite.

_KB24_
02-25-2010, 10:54 PM
Not elite.

But he's still a Top 5 PG of all Time.

ragee
02-26-2010, 12:14 AM
Jason Kidd is one of the few true PGs left.

You know nothing if you think that Nash is not great as of now. IMO he's the best in the business, followed by Billups, then D-Will, then Kidd.

I am not saying he isn't great but to say that he is the best is an overstatement... He can't play D... That is all I need to say... I am not hating by the way... Nash and Dirk are the duo that turned me to an NBA fan again...I stopped watching NBA when I realized Miller is not going to win a championship and the league were dominated by silly prima donnas... Then I saw the Nash and Dirk and I started loving the league again...

MR.TRIPDUB
02-26-2010, 12:40 AM
Elite? No. At least not anymore.

Legendary? possibly

:mad:

elite? debatable but i say yes, coz he is still one of the most rounded players offensively and defensively, point guard or not. his impact on his team is immeasurable.

legendary? most definitely and i would be freakin furious if anybody says otherwise

MR.TRIPDUB
02-26-2010, 12:46 AM
Jason Kidds passing, court vision, basketball IQ will keep him an elite point guard til the day he retires

:clap:

sargon21
02-26-2010, 01:44 AM
pg rebounding is overrated, jkidd is not elite, he's playing great for his age, but he does not belong in the top 5, idc wat the mavs fans say

BlondeBomber41
02-26-2010, 02:19 AM
Better than Devin Harris.

MR.TRIPDUB
02-26-2010, 02:41 AM
pg rebounding is overrated, jkidd is not elite, he's playing great for his age, but he does not belong in the top 5, idc wat the mavs fans say

how is it overrated? whenever a point guard, in this case jkidd, gets a rebound it opens an opportunity to run and score easily on transition.

he may not be an elite scorer, but his bbiq and leadership (imo are the qualities a great point guard should have) definitely elite.

King P
02-26-2010, 03:36 AM
Is this a serious question? of course he is

Chronz
02-26-2010, 04:16 AM
This is true, but still...how many players can be elite? I think Paul, Nash and Williams are absolutely elite. I think Rondo and Rose are better. Maybe even Billups or Tyreke.

He's great. I was very happy when he made the all-star game (not happy he didn't play much)...but my point is that you can't toss the word "elite" around too generously.
Yea I guess it depends on where you think the cutoff lies. Ive never been a fan of Kidd, I dont like players who start cliches like (its not his job to score) but even I appreciate his game especially at this stage in his career.

Raoul Duke_91
02-26-2010, 04:22 AM
Yea I guess it depends on where you think the cutoff lies. Ive never been a fan of Kidd, I dont like players who start cliches like (its not his job to score) but even I appreciate his game especially at this stage in his career.

yea but thats why hes been such a great fit in dallas. Dallas doesnt need kidd to score and him taking really anymore than easy buckets and spot up threes would detract from the other great scorers on that team. Thats why haywood is gonna be a beast on that team too.

thedfactor
02-26-2010, 04:33 AM
You can fairly say there are guys you would take over him now, but give credit where it's due. At 36 years old and almost 37, Kidd mans the PG position like few his age, Nash is another. Kidd's presence and BBIQ makes him elite. He's played with new energy lately, he's amazing.

Chronz
02-26-2010, 04:49 AM
yea but thats why hes been such a great fit in dallas. Dallas doesnt need kidd to score and him taking really anymore than easy buckets and spot up threes would detract from the other great scorers on that team. Thats why haywood is gonna be a beast on that team too.Every team needs their players to score, if you cant score you put more strain on others to pick up the slack.

Let me get this straight you think a team that ranks 12th in Offensive efficiency, a team that now has forced Dirk to carry a bigger load (something hes complained about by the way) is loaded with great scorers? Perhaps if Butler gets acclimated but if Kidd had been a better scorer the team would be better off. Hes taking such a low% of his teams shots that he better be efficient, just imagine how much better the team would be if Kidd could actually chip in with the scoring load.

Look at it this way, just ask yourself, would the Mavs really suffer offensively if Kidd was say 4 years younger and able to create for himself as well as others? Same basic principle, lets stop making excuses for a players weakness.

i.got.the.nutz
02-26-2010, 05:56 AM
Elite point guards - Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Chauncy Billups, Steve Nash, and Jason Kidd. In that order.

Vinny642
02-26-2010, 09:47 PM
Jason Kidd is one of the few true PGs left.

You know nothing if you think that Nash is not great as of now. IMO he's the best in the business, followed by Billups, then D-Will, then Kidd.

Chris Paul is better than all of them

PHX2daDEATH
02-26-2010, 11:05 PM
I don't know many 37 year old point guards who grab 16 rebounds.. I don't know of any point guards that grab 16 rebounds..if we're talking about this season? I'd say he's top 5 still and yes he's still elite..

CBCable
02-26-2010, 11:08 PM
this question was answered tonight

Jason5Kidd5
02-26-2010, 11:55 PM
No doubt. I put him above Chauncey Billups even. Of course, I am biased, but I could always use stats to make my case. One does not need to score 948594 ppg as a PG to be considered elite. Almost all his shots are from 3 point land, that's why he has a low 43% FG average for the season, when he's averaging 42%+ on 3's.

I think he is without a doubt an elite PG.

Jason5Kidd5
02-26-2010, 11:55 PM
this question was answered tonight

Amen brother...

Chronz
02-27-2010, 03:12 AM
No doubt. I put him above Chauncey Billups even. Of course, I am biased, but I could always use stats to make my case. One does not need to score 948594 ppg as a PG to be considered elite. Almost all his shots are from 3 point land, that's why he has a low 43% FG average for the season, when he's averaging 42%+ on 3's.

I think he is without a doubt an elite PG.

Dont get out of hand now

Doogolas
02-27-2010, 03:23 AM
First things first. Elite is an adjective, so nobody can be "an elite", unless we are talking about Halo, which we are not.

Second thing, you have obviously not seen Jason Kidd play this year, as well as anyone who has said he is not "elite".

Third thing, let me explain to you why he IS elite. Last week on 2/17/10, he had 18 points, 10 assists, 7 steals, 7 rebounds. That flirts with a quadruple double, and he has had games like that throughout the season.

Oh, and D-Will is an elite PG right? Well, what the hell, statistically they are within .8 apg of eachother. Jason Kidd is the better rebounder, leader in steals, and better blocker. Oh, But D-Will has 8pg more than Kidd right? Who gives a damn? D-Will has to score, D-Will has to be the one to score for the Jazz, but Kidd? He's got more options to go to than D-Will so he doesn't have to be the scorer.

Not to mention J-Kidd shoots 8% better behind the arc.

:laugh: You need to never speak again. One can be an elite point guard. The word AN goes with point guard, but it has to be an because it comes before an adjective that is ATTACHED to point guard, ergo, "elite point guard" essentially becomes the noun. Please don't correct people that have done nothing wrong. Jesus Christ is that obnoxious.

To answer the question, no, not anymore. Has nothing to do with PPG averages and such, he's just not.

Chronz
02-27-2010, 03:43 AM
Im **** when it comes to grammar but that was an awesome comeback

JJ_JKidd
02-27-2010, 03:57 AM
19 pts, 16 rebs, 17 assists. Shove that stat up your @$$es!!!

thedfactor
02-27-2010, 04:22 AM
Kidd read this thread before the game in ATL

Jason5Kidd5
02-27-2010, 05:18 AM
Kidd read this thread before the game in ATL

He probably read Chronz's post and was thinking how much of a moron he is. lol

Chronz
02-27-2010, 05:21 AM
He probably read Chronz's post and was thinking how much of a moron he is. lol
Your too kind

DenButsu
02-27-2010, 05:30 AM
First things first. Elite is an adjective, so nobody can be "an elite", unless we are talking about Halo, which we are not.


Main Entry: elite
Pronunciation: \ā-ˈlēt, i-, ē-\
Function: noun
Etymology: French Úlite, from Old French eslite, from feminine of eslit, past participle of eslire to choose, from Latin eligere
Date: 1823

1 a singular or plural in construction : the choice part : cream <the elite of the entertainment world> b singular or plural in construction : the best of a class <superachievers who dominate the computer elite — Marilyn Chase> c singular or plural in construction : the socially superior part of society <how the elite live — A P World> <how the French-speaking elite…was changing — Economist> d : a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence <members of the ruling elite> <the intellectual elites of the country> e : a member of such an elite —usually used in plural <the elites …, pursuing their studies in Europe — Robert Wernick>
2 : a typewriter type providing 12 characters to the linear inch

— elite adjective webster's (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elite)

magichatnumber9
02-27-2010, 08:30 AM
Jason Kidd is one of the best point guards to play this game.

drobe86
02-27-2010, 10:37 AM
You damn right he is. He's still the only pg in the game that can control a game without scoring....

Young2Kinsler
02-27-2010, 11:17 AM
Elite point guards - Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Chauncy Billups, Steve Nash, and Jason Kidd. In that order.

Billups is not ahead of Nash or Kidd

Tribe
02-27-2010, 11:23 AM
He was last night

ragee
02-27-2010, 11:54 AM
Chris Paul is better than all of them

I think D-Will has already passed Paul...

JayW_1023
02-27-2010, 02:12 PM
What he has lost in quickness and coast to coast speed...he gains with experience and better shooting later in his career.

drobe86
02-27-2010, 02:16 PM
Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chancey Billups.

JasonJohnHorn
02-27-2010, 02:33 PM
I'm not a big fan of J. Kidd personally, in part because of his personal past, but as for skills on the court he gets it done. He fifth in hte league in assists and just under 10 a game and he causes fewer turnovers than all four of the guys above him (Nash, Paul, Williams and Rondo- though Paul does have a better a-2-t ration). As for his shooting, Kidd has traditionally been a veyr poor shooter and a liability in fact, but he, even at his age, has improved that part of his game. He has only once shot a higher FG% than the one he is currently putting up, and his 3P% is at career high .420 (which cna really help a team spread the floor, and his TS% is the highest of his career (he's taking a lot fo threes this year and it drags down his FG%). So Kidd is in fact shooting the ball better than ever this season (I'm scratching my head as I'm typing this). He picks his spots and doesn't force shots and is focusing (as a point guard should ideally do) on setting up his teammates. As always he is one of the best rebounding poitn guards, and his assist average this season is above his career average. And his turnovers are at the lowest average of his career. So looking at the numebrs it seems as though Kidd has still got game. I can't speak with much authority because I haven't gotten to actually WATCH any Maverick games yet this season, but looking at their record, and looking at Kidds numbers, it seems like he has actually improved his game and is posting his best season since he got to the finals with the Nets. And he is of course always working his @$$ off on defence (even if he has lost a step- which I can't say that he has or hasn't, but just in having watching him in the past I know he puts out 110% on D every night, so I'm sure he is at least holding his own this year).

That said Rose and Rondo are the glue for their respective teams this year, and I don't say that just because they have higher scoring averages. The Bulls are in 6th place and have had a huge turnaround, in part due to Rose's play, and this after many fans thought the season was a wash and were calling for Delnegro's head on a stick. Rondo has been the healthiest and most consistent Celtic and though I would still say Kidd is smarter than those guys, they are having better years. Paul is playing great when he's on the floor, but he's been battling injuries which has diluted his impact for his team this year, and Nash, like Rondo and Rose, has been the glue that has been keeping his team competetive. And of course there is Derron Williams who, like the others mentioned, has been the heart and soul of his team. Each of those teams obviously have other players who play huge roles, but I think it is fair to say that Kidd, of all those players, is the one who is clearly not the most important player on his team. Dirk is the Mavs, and Kidd is almost as important to their play right now, but I think Dirk is clearly the most important piece to the Mavs puzzle, where as the other point guards are each (arguably) the most important players on their teams right now (accept Paul because of his injury).

So is Kidd still elite? I'm going to go with yes since he is posting his best shooting season, his lowest turnovers and a assist average that is higher than his career average. He still has what has made him great in the past, and even though the PG position is deeper that is was in years past, Kidd is still one of the best in the game and would make just about any team better, and I am in awe at how he has, even while on the wrogn side of 35, improved his game.

And for those who scoff at his 9 points per game: he is playing into his team and doing the things that serve his team best. If they needed 15 points from him, he'd give it to them, but he serves the team's best interest by facilitating.

Meth
02-27-2010, 02:48 PM
Was he? Yeah.

Is he now? Probably and arguably.

Is he important for any team? Yeah.

Does he show leadership? Yeah.

Is he a top aspect for any team? Sure, but arguable.

Nikeman
02-27-2010, 03:01 PM
How can you guys say he is NOT elite?

Just because other PG's score more than him, doesn't mean that they mean more to their team.

Kidd is

A) Clutch
B) A true leader people can look up tp
C) An experienced Veteran

Not many PGs, aside Nash and maybe CP3 mean more to their team than Kidd does. So it all depends on how elite is defined.

All I know is J-Kidd is a winner

Bruno
02-27-2010, 05:00 PM
Yes.

bigmac8675
02-27-2010, 05:23 PM
Still very good... but I wouldn't say elite.

Bashna
02-27-2010, 05:32 PM
Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chancey Billups.

Are you saying that is in order, In your opinion? Because you're sorely mistaken if you think Kidd is currently better then Nash...