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View Full Version : Kobe Bryant on the Comparisons Between Himself and LeBron James (REAL INTERVIEW)



ko8e24
02-25-2010, 02:49 AM
Before the Lakers visited the Dallas Mavericks, this was a short interview between Mavericks TV analyst Derek Harper (former Laker with Kobe in 98-99) sitting down with Kobe.


Short Clip Interview

Derek Harper: You know, everywhere I go, people are talking about "the torch is being passed" between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. And, knowing you the way I know you, I know you don't feel like you're ever going to be passing the torch to anybody but..who's better? Who's the best player in the league? Kobe Bryant or LeBron James?


Kobe Bryant: (laughing really really hard) I don't know (pause).....HE IS....


Derek Harper: (Pause) I'm gonna ask you again, and I'm not gonna crack a smile with you. Who's the best player in the NBA right now?


Kobe Bryant: You know, honestly, it's tough for me to answer that, from the simple standpoint that we're asked to do 2 different things. So I think a lot of people look at it from the outside, they can look at numbers, they can look at this, they can look at that. But the systems that we're in are different, our responsibilities are different, and ultimately to me, it's who has more rings at the end of the day. So when his career is all said and done, when my career is all said and done...


Derek Harper: No, no, no, obviously you have more rings.


Kobe Bryant: But that's the only thing that concerns me.



http://cbs2.com/lakers

stawka
02-25-2010, 02:52 AM
Bill Russell>Robert Horry>All

CowboysKB24
02-25-2010, 02:54 AM
It really doesn't matter who is the best in the NBA. It matters who wins the championships. No one is going to be saying "Oh well in 2010 LeBron was better than Kobe". They are going to remember the team that won the ring and how they did it.

Raph12
02-25-2010, 03:05 AM
I still think Kobe's better as of now, maybe in a season or two if Kobe declines and Lebron gets better.

The jumpshot and the clutch moments really ends the convo for me.

1. Kobe
1A. Lebron
.
.
.
3. Dwight
3A. Melo
5. Wade
6. Durant

Storch
02-25-2010, 03:09 AM
Bill Russell>Robert Horry>All

Comparing bill russel vs robert horry does not fully pertain to this specific situation. lebron vs kobe is a completely different situation, these two (to state the obvious) are franchise players that carry their teams to championships. So you're comment has little to no weight.


Anyway, I like how Kobe answered the question by choosing to opt out of making a statement. I also like how he expressed his opinion regarding what HIS definition of "being a better player" is. He obviously believes that Lebron is great, and understands that he is still in the early stages of his great career. I agree with kobe, let time tell the tale and let's see who's had a greater impact on the league.

KeithLBC
02-25-2010, 03:09 AM
Ibtl :)

Gibby
02-25-2010, 03:12 AM
i think finals MVP is a better indication then just titles. some role player can have alot of rings but that doesnt mean they are better

NPH
02-25-2010, 03:14 AM
IDK...I am still taking Wade over Lebron...

Gibby
02-25-2010, 03:19 AM
is there any stat on Potential game winning shots taken and Made? i seen arguements kobe , melo are more clutch then lebron. i dont buy it.

Purple&Gold24
02-25-2010, 03:28 AM
Kobe answered the question just perfect...whoever has more rings at the end is the better player... I wanna see what Lebron would answer to that same question..

_KB24_
02-25-2010, 03:29 AM
Until Lebron leads his team to a ring, Kobe will remain the superior player. Both can get their stats, but only one is the proven winner...

_KB24_
02-25-2010, 03:29 AM
Kobe answered the question just perfect...whoever has more rings at the end is the better player... I wanna see what Lebron would answer to that same question..

"Check My $tats".... :facepalm:

Gibby
02-25-2010, 03:33 AM
lets say Lebron leads the cavs to a title this year. will that be enough to say he is better.

stawka
02-25-2010, 03:47 AM
Kobe's a better scorer, LeBron's a better all-round player. What so you expect someone with an ego as big as Kobe's to say?

"I'm good but LeBron's better!"?

Obviously not! Even Jordan didn't have the ego Kobe does (And don't start with the "your favorite player (Shaq) has a massive ego too because I already know it and admit unlike you nutriders)

Zefflin
02-25-2010, 03:59 AM
Of coarse Kobe is still better. Doesn't take a Kobe interview for me to see that. Although he did say that Lebron is better... So I agree with Kobe.

Purple&Gold24
02-25-2010, 03:59 AM
who will have more rings at the end?

Zefflin
02-25-2010, 04:03 AM
Kobe has and will continue to prevent the great players of this era to win theirs...just like MJ did.

stawka
02-25-2010, 04:07 AM
Of coarse Kobe is still better. Doesn't take a Kobe interview for me to see that. Although he did say that Lebron is better... So I agree with Kobe.

WTF?! :facepalm:

Zefflin
02-25-2010, 04:17 AM
Cmon that was funny.

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 04:24 AM
Kobe's a better scorer, LeBron's a better all-round player. What so you expect someone with an ego as big as Kobe's to say?

"I'm good but LeBron's better!"?

Obviously not! Even Jordan didn't have the ego Kobe does (And don't start with the "your favorite player (Shaq) has a massive ego too because I already know it and admit unlike you nutriders)

Yup, he was a humble humble non-bitter guy at the Hall of Fame :rolleyes:

Stawka, you should do like Lebron, and "Check the Posts", lmao!



.....jk

_KB24_
02-25-2010, 04:28 AM
Kobe's a better scorer, LeBron's a better all-round player. What so you expect someone with an ego as big as Kobe's to say?

"I'm good but LeBron's better!"?

Obviously not! Even Jordan didn't have the ego Kobe does (And don't start with the "your favorite player (Shaq) has a massive ego too because I already know it and admit unlike you nutriders)

You really do belong in the Hall of Shame.

stawka
02-25-2010, 04:31 AM
Did I say Jordan didn't have an ego? Of course he had one, but not as large as your boys. I don't remember Jordan getting rid of his best teammate
along with compromising his teams success for the sake
of his own legacy.

Whatever though. I've been on PSD long enough to know not to start on Kobe because it's blasphemy whereas Laker fans can bash on LeBron, Wade, Shaq
etc etc etc allllllllll day long :)

sp1derm00
02-25-2010, 04:31 AM
I like what Kobe said, you can look at the stats, and you can look at everything, but they're asked to do different things in the systems they're in.

What makes Kobe the better player in my eyes is his determination to win. You can say what you want about Lebron being better, but at the end of the day, Kobe gets W's for you through his will and determination.

You could see the pain in his eyes, the tears coming from him when he lost in the Finals against Detroit. Those tears come from wanting to win so badly and putting everything you had into the game.

When Lebron lost, he stormed off the court like he was angry at something or someone, like he was denied something he was entitled to.

That's my take on Kobe vs. Lebron. Lebron might have more god-given abilities, might be the more dominant basketball player with the combination of all his talents and attributes. I view Kobe as a player that wasn't as gifted athletically (he was SCRAWNYYYY in High School), he just put in all the hard work necessary for him to get to being the best. He has the determination to go out and win.

Zefflin
02-25-2010, 04:36 AM
You could see the pain in his eyes, the tears coming from him when he lost in the Finals against Detroit. Those tears come from wanting to win so badly and putting everything you had into the game.

When Lebron lost, he stormed off the court like he was angry at something or someone, like he was denied something he was entitled to.

That's my take on Kobe vs. Lebron.

:clap:

jmtapia
02-25-2010, 04:45 AM
When Lebron lost, he stormed off the court like he was angry at something or someone, like he was denied something he was entitled to.

...were you right behind him as he stormed off?? How do you know he didnt storm off bc his emotions got the best of him and he didnt feel like letting the world see that? I see where your coming from on Kobe's will to win...but to say that LBJ wasnt hurting after losing that playoff series is just ridiculous. Look up his stats for those or therefore any playoffs. The guy has delivered and then some... its not his fault that players around him choked.

Im neither a Cavs nor a Laker fan but i know for a fact that winning a championship is #1 on LBJ agenda and he wants it very bad.

I also think its pointless to compare Kobe and LBJ in terms of careers bc they are in different stages and their ages are totally different. Moreover, who knows if next year LeBron is paired with Bosh or Amare and they go on to win bunch of titles... thats exactly what happened to Kobe.

LOL at the body comparison. I guess LeBron just popped out of the womb with a fully developed body.

Purple&Gold24
02-25-2010, 04:50 AM
I like what Kobe said, you can look at the stats, and you can look at everything, but they're asked to do different things in the systems they're in.

What makes Kobe the better player in my eyes is his determination to win. You can say what you want about Lebron being better, but at the end of the day, Kobe gets W's for you through his will and determination.

You could see the pain in his eyes, the tears coming from him when he lost in the Finals against Detroit. Those tears come from wanting to win so badly and putting everything you had into the game.

When Lebron lost, he stormed off the court like he was angry at something or someone, like he was denied something he was entitled to.

That's my take on Kobe vs. Lebron. Lebron might have more god-given abilities, might be the more dominant basketball player with the combination of all his talents and attributes. I view Kobe as a player that wasn't as gifted athletically (he was SCRAWNYYYY in High School), he just put in all the hard work necessary for him to get to being the best. He has the determination to go out and win.
:clap:

JJ_JKidd
02-25-2010, 04:54 AM
Kobe's correct. Not until LBJ's career is done (so is Kobe's) can we determine who the better player is. So the term GREATEST OF ALL-TIME to me is also absurd.

After all, the world hasnt ended yet. Who knows, there may be a 7 foot 7 Lebron+MJ+Kobe like player in the future. Thats goodbye to the NBA IMHO. He'd dominate no doubt!!!

jmtapia
02-25-2010, 04:57 AM
Kobe's correct. Not until LBJ's career is done (so is Kobe's) can we determine who the better player is. So the term GREATEST OF ALL-TIME to me is also absurd.

After all, the world hasnt ended yet. Who knows, there may be a 7 foot 7 Lebron+MJ+Kobe like player in the future. Thats goodbye to the NBA IMHO. He'd dominate no doubt!!!

MJ is the Greatest of all time. And till someone else dethrones him he will be.... IMHO at this stage of their careers neither Kobe nor LBJ come even close.

drose231
02-25-2010, 04:58 AM
I like what Kobe said, you can look at the stats, and you can look at everything, but they're asked to do different things in the systems they're in.

What makes Kobe the better player in my eyes is his determination to win. You can say what you want about Lebron being better, but at the end of the day, Kobe gets W's for you through his will and determination.

You could see the pain in his eyes, the tears coming from him when he lost in the Finals against Detroit. Those tears come from wanting to win so badly and putting everything you had into the game.

When Lebron lost, he stormed off the court like he was angry at something or someone, like he was denied something he was entitled to.

That's my take on Kobe vs. Lebron. Lebron might have more god-given abilities, might be the more dominant basketball player with the combination of all his talents and attributes. I view Kobe as a player that wasn't as gifted athletically (he was SCRAWNYYYY in High School), he just put in all the hard work necessary for him to get to being the best. He has the determination to go out and win.

Or he just hates losing.... You don't know that Kobe has more determination than LeBron does. You don't know that he puts in more work than LeBron. That is BS. LeBron absolutely hates losing, and he showed it after losing to the Mavs. He took a terrible cavs team to the finals in 2007. That isn't determination?

Kobe is better all time so far, LeBron is better currently. Simple as that. Look at the supporting casts. Kobe's is clearly much better, yet LeBron is leading his team to a better record. He also beat the Lakers twice this year.

Lakers fans need to look at the ring debate objectively. I've seen far too many who just say "more rings, Kobe is obviously better" just so they can believe Kobe is better than LeBron.

Look at the starting casts Kobe had when he won his rings. The first three, he had Shaq, arguably the most dominant player ever. Kobe wasn't even a first option when he won his first 3 rings. The last one, he had Pau Gasol, one of the best players in the league. Who has LeBron had? LeBron led an awful Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Who was the 2nd best player on that team? Larry Hughes? Lol, the team was terrible. LeBron made the whole team better. What did Kobe do with those teams from 2004-2007? The farthest he went was the first round.

That just shows that LeBron can do more with less. Give him a better supporting cast, and I'm sure he would do as well as Kobe.

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 05:29 AM
Or he just hates losing.... You don't know that Kobe has more determination than LeBron does. You don't know that he puts in more work than LeBron. That is BS. LeBron absolutely hates losing, and he showed it after losing to the Mavs. He took a terrible cavs team to the finals in 2007. That isn't determination?

Kobe is better all time so far, LeBron is better currently. Simple as that. Look at the supporting casts. Kobe's is clearly much better, yet LeBron is leading his team to a better record. He also beat the Lakers twice this year.

Lakers fans need to look at the ring debate objectively. I've seen far too many who just say "more rings, Kobe is obviously better" just so they can believe Kobe is better than LeBron.

Look at the starting casts Kobe had when he won his rings. The first three, he had Shaq, arguably the most dominant player ever. Kobe wasn't even a first option when he won his first 3 rings. The last one, he had Pau Gasol, one of the best players in the league. Who has LeBron had? LeBron led an awful Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Who was the 2nd best player on that team? Larry Hughes? Lol, the team was terrible. LeBron made the whole team better. What did Kobe do with those teams from 2004-2007? The farthest he went was the first round.

That just shows that LeBron can do more with less. Give him a better supporting cast, and I'm sure he would do as well as Kobe.


This post = :puke:


VERSUS


I like what Kobe said, you can look at the stats, and you can look at everything, but they're asked to do different things in the systems they're in.

What makes Kobe the better player in my eyes is his determination to win. You can say what you want about Lebron being better, but at the end of the day, Kobe gets W's for you through his will and determination.

You could see the pain in his eyes, the tears coming from him when he lost in the Finals against Detroit. Those tears come from wanting to win so badly and putting everything you had into the game.

When Lebron lost, he stormed off the court like he was angry at something or someone, like he was denied something he was entitled to.

That's my take on Kobe vs. Lebron. Lebron might have more god-given abilities, might be the more dominant basketball player with the combination of all his talents and attributes. I view Kobe as a player that wasn't as gifted athletically (he was SCRAWNYYYY in High School), he just put in all the hard work necessary for him to get to being the best. He has the determination to go out and win.


This Post = :clap:

Zefflin
02-25-2010, 05:43 AM
Look up his stats for those or therefore any playoffs. The guy has delivered and then some... its not his fault that players around him choked.

That first bit sounds so familer...

Is that you Lebron?

As for the second bit, Lebron played quite horribly against Orlando last year. Dude was like 20 something % through the first 4 games.

Some of his team should set up more true, but it's kinda hard when Lebron is trying to do EVERYTHING and showing no trust. Trying to make the playoffs a one man show is all that matters to him. Until then, good luck getting your ring King.

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 05:53 AM
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/video/clip?id=4940942&categoryid=4686950

This analysis makes so much sense. Take a look guys.

Zefflin
02-25-2010, 06:00 AM
But you saw the New Espn Kobe/Lebron Stat Thread ko8e24...no arguing with the facts..

lakerboy
02-25-2010, 06:25 AM
Did I say Jordan didn't have an ego? Of course he had one, but not as large as your boys. I don't remember Jordan getting rid of his best teammate
along with compromising his teams success for the sake
of his own legacy.

Whatever though. I've been on PSD long enough to know not to start on Kobe because it's blasphemy whereas Laker fans can bash on LeBron, Wade, Shaq
etc etc etc allllllllll day long :)

Kobe getting rid of a teammate? It was Shaq who demanded a trade.

Jordan punched Steve Kerr. How about that?

Imagine Kobe punchign Smush Parker.

Zefflin
02-25-2010, 06:29 AM
Imagine Kobe punchign Smush Parker.

Quite frankly I love that thought.

Chronz
02-25-2010, 07:22 AM
Kobes funny

Apophis
02-25-2010, 08:10 AM
Thats cool what Kobe said.. and he is right.. When its all said and done.. its all about the championships...

Honsetly.. I think Melo is better than Lebron... I like Lebron but he is hyped up too much...

Cavs_Fan24
02-25-2010, 08:27 AM
IDK...I am still taking Wade over Lebron...

YEP!! And I'm taking mike James over d-wade:)

TheKing23
02-25-2010, 09:12 AM
I tell you what we needed... Another LeBron/Kobe thread.

I'm glad someone obliged... :rolleyes:

TheKing23
02-25-2010, 09:18 AM
Until Lebron leads his team to a ring, Kobe will remain the superior player. Both can get their stats, but only one is the proven winner...


"Check My $tats".... :facepalm:

I literally can't stand your method of thinking... Do you actually know nothing about basketball??

Is Shaq now currently a better player than Dwight because he has four rings and Dwight has none? NO...

So why is that a legit argument to use when comparing LeBron and Kobe? According to your flawed method of thinking you must also think that Garnett is better than Bosh? Tony Parker is better than Chris Paul and Deron Williams? Ray Allen is better than Brandon Roy?

I am sick of people using the PAST when deciding who is the best player in the PRESENT... It's totally illogical and really exposes the flaws in your basketball knowledge.

Jaji
02-25-2010, 09:22 AM
Kobe only missed that 3 last night because it was a potential game tying shot. Kobe only hits game winners.

29$JerZ
02-25-2010, 09:36 AM
I don't see why it matters to be considered Best player in the league when its nothing more then a short lived achievement.

Tracy was at one time Best player in the league. Look at him now.

All that should matter is playoff success since that's the purpose of being an athlete in the NBA other then money. Is popularity > success?

LE-SHAQ
02-25-2010, 10:09 AM
To me Bill Russell is the Goat!!! 11 rings one as player coach NO ONE EVEN IN HIS AREA CODE.
Jordan was great but Russell 11 rings.

Lebron is the better player check the stats. Kobe answered right we will see who gets more rings. Lebron like Jordan is MAKING A FRANCHISE. Kobe went to an established iconic franchise where its MUCH EASIER TO WIN. Phil Jackson, Shaq at his best.
Jordan took a loser and made the Bulls a franchise with an unknown/unproven Phil Jackson, Just like Lebron with the Cavs and Mike Brown lets see how it plays out.

JNA17
02-25-2010, 10:33 AM
Kobe only missed that 3 last night because it was a potential game tying shot. Kobe only hits game winners.

you realize kobe hit the game tying 3 before his game winning shot in memphis right?

JNA17
02-25-2010, 10:34 AM
Is popularity > success?

In the all star game this is the case :facepalm:

Jaji
02-25-2010, 10:42 AM
To me Bill Russell is the Goat!!! 11 rings one as player coach NO ONE EVEN IN HIS AREA CODE.
Jordan was great but Russell 11 rings.

Lebron is the better player check the stats. Kobe answered right we will see who gets more rings. Lebron like Jordan is MAKING A FRANCHISE. Kobe went to an established iconic franchise where its MUCH EASIER TO WIN. Phil Jackson, Shaq at his best.
Jordan took a loser and made the Bulls a franchise with an unknown/unproven Phil Jackson, Just like Lebron with the Cavs and Mike Brown lets see how it plays out.

:clap: Excellent post LE-SHAQ.

I like to think Kobe has 2.5 rings when comparing his rings to LeBron's. Yes Kobe owns 4 rings but 3 of them came when he was Shaq's sidekick. Not saying Kobe was some slouch, but Shaq was the best player in the world at the time. There was no 'Kobe & Shaq' it was 'Shaq & Kobe.' Let's be honest, the main reason the Lakers even acquired Kobe was to save cap space to sign Shaq. Sure, they figured they'd pick up a nice prospect too, but NO ONE was thinking Kobe could turn into the player he has turned into. If they did, he would have went higher than 13th overall.

People seem to forget that LeBron is only 25 years old. Who leads their team to multiple titles by age 25? Duncan had Robinson his 1st title. Kobe had Shaq for his 1st 3. LeBron has had no one. Even Jordan's Bulls added Pippen and Grant. The truth is, LeBron James is the best 25 year old ever. He is beyond Jordan was at this age and Kobe. Jordan never took a talent deprived team on his back and dragged them to the finals whether they wanted to go or not. Now he's working on his 2nd MVP. At the same age Jordan was getting off as a frosh at Chapel Hill, Bron was dropping 20 a game on grown men. The fact that he's even in the discussion for best in the league is incredible itself because he's still a kid, just entering his prime and still improving.

And anyone who says Wade, Melo, or anyone else belongs in the discussion is just being ridiculous. There are only 2 "the best player in the world" and they are Lebron James and Kobe Bryant.

Jaji
02-25-2010, 10:45 AM
you realize kobe hit the game tying 3 before his game winning shot in memphis right?

He had to, to set up the game winner ;).

RadiantShot
02-25-2010, 10:46 AM
I literally can't stand your method of thinking... Do you actually know nothing about basketball??

Is Shaq now currently a better player than Dwight because he has four rings and Dwight has none? NO...

So why is that a legit argument to use when comparing LeBron and Kobe? According to your flawed method of thinking you must also think that Garnett is better than Bosh? Tony Parker is better than Chris Paul and Deron Williams? Ray Allen is better than Brandon Roy?

I am sick of people using the PAST when deciding who is the best player in the PRESENT... It's totally illogical and really exposes the flaws in your basketball knowledge.


This guy.
Thread over.

wallerstud06
02-25-2010, 10:52 AM
ummm Stawka you obviously have not been watching Michael Jordan play or listen to any of his interviews. He has one of the biggest egos this game has ever seen. And we are not going to even bring Shaq into this situation. Lebron is a great player and if he retired today he would PROBABLY enter the Hall of Fame. But his Stats are padded, sorry to say this but its true. He is in possesion of the ball 98% percent of the game. Lebron is a better Passer, rebounder and dunker than Kobe..Thats about it. I think Wade is better

JNA17
02-25-2010, 10:55 AM
He had to, to set up the game winner ;).

lol which is great. Because if he missed it, there would be no game winner :laugh2:

But you replied that Kobe can't hit game tying shots (Does that honestly matter if he hits games winners instead?), but i said that he does and he did which was that one example i just told you. Which yes, lead to the game winner.

Jaji
02-25-2010, 10:59 AM
lol which is great. Because if he missed it, there would be no game winner :laugh2:

But you replied that Kobe can't hit game tying shots (Does that honestly matter if he hits games winners instead?), but i said that he does and he did which was that one example i just told you. Which yes, lead to the game winner.

He can hit game tying shots. He may hit 10 game tying shots during the course of a game. He can hit 3 in the 1st quarter, 2 more in the 2nd, etc. My point is, at the end of the game, Kobe is a winner, he's not a tyer. Had the Mavs been up 1 or 2, he hits that shot blind folded with a hand tied behind his back. But game tying shots aren't his expertise. If you ain't first, you're last.

Jaji
02-25-2010, 11:01 AM
lol which is great. Because if he missed it, there would be no game winner :laugh2:

But you replied that Kobe can't hit game tying shots (Does that honestly matter if he hits games winners instead?), but i said that he does and he did which was that one example i just told you. Which yes, lead to the game winner.

I don't know why you see that as a knock on the guy. Would you rather be a game winner or a game tyer?

mshan5
02-25-2010, 11:03 AM
I still think Kobe's better as of now, maybe in a season or two if Kobe declines and Lebron gets better.

The jumpshot and the clutch moments really ends the convo for me.

1. Kobe
1A. Lebron
.
.
.
3. Dwight
3A. Melo
5. Wade
6. Durant




YEAHRIGHT! Dwight Howard doesn't belong on any list that involves the top 6 players in the NBA right now!

RaysFan
02-25-2010, 11:10 AM
I don't care about Cleveland or LA but using rings in the past as a measuring stick for who is better in the present is insane. It means nothing.

-Tim Duncan is not better than Dwight Howard
-Tony Parker is not better than Chris Paul
-Paul Pierce is not better than Kevin Durant
-Kevin Garnett is not better than LeBron James

Kobe is an amazing player but right now LeBron James is the best. Kobe has the better support-system around him. He has the better team and the better coaching staff. LeBron has a good team and an underrated coach as well, which is why they have the NBA's best record, but they aren't as good as what Kobe has in LA.

I think the person who mentioned the franchise that each player went to was dead on accurate. Kobe went to the high-profile team with a firmly established star in place. He got the greatest coach of all-time to guide him through his entire career. He was also benefited with one of the more lopsided deals in recent NBA history when Pau Gasol, a 27 year old 7-foot all-star, was dealt for scraps. LeBron, otoh, went to a **** organization with a no-name coach and no talent around him. The only talented player he had at the start, Carlos Boozer, screwed the franchise over by leaving them high and dry. Now the Cavs have done a good job with new management but you can obviously tell the difference between the 2 situations.

I would be more impressed if LeBron takes Cleveland to 3+ titles than I would be if Kobe takes the Lakers to 5+ titles considering the 2 franchises that each player went to.

Gibby
02-25-2010, 12:18 PM
i hate all the vague cliche statements. that moron in espn video, when did he say lebron was crap in clutch? I the espn stat shows that lebron not being clutch is BS. kobe has will and determination. can u see will and determination oozing out kobe? how do you know lebron is not determined.

was the guy saying kobe is better because he had to work hard? he is an idiot for saying lebron had things handed to him. sure he is athletic but we ve seen alot of athletic not have good careers. is it lebrons fault for being the better player out HS.

I think TheKing23 made a great point. Kobe has had a better career so far, no doubt. but the argument is who is a better player now.

mser58
02-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Durantula > alll

this argument is so overdone

JNA17
02-25-2010, 12:32 PM
I don't know why you see that as a knock on the guy. Would you rather be a game winner or a game tyer?

Why do you think i said does it honestly matter in () in my other post?

Your the one making it sound like if the lakers were down by 2 and kobe goes for the 2, he would miss or if they were down by 3 he would miss. That's exactly how you said it.

JNA17
02-25-2010, 12:34 PM
He can hit game tying shots. He may hit 10 game tying shots during the course of a game. He can hit 3 in the 1st quarter, 2 more in the 2nd, etc. My point is, at the end of the game, Kobe is a winner, he's not a tyer. Had the Mavs been up 1 or 2, he hits that shot blind folded with a hand tied behind his back. But game tying shots aren't his expertise. If you ain't first, you're last.

I'm sure you have some proof to back up that statement where he can't hit game tying shots am i right? Or are you gonna use one game as an example.

RaiderLakersA's
02-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Did I say Jordan didn't have an ego? Of course he had one, but not as large as your boys.

With what gauge are you measuring each man's ego that you can make this statement? By most accounts of everyone that played with Jordan -- and from the statements of Bulls officials who worked with Jordan -- his ego was easily as great as any other alpha male in the sport. It's pointless to compare it to other alpha males like Kobe or Shaq or even Bird or Chamberlain for that matter.

Raph12
02-25-2010, 12:52 PM
YEAHRIGHT! Dwight Howard doesn't belong on any list that involves the top 6 players in the NBA right now!

Yeah I guess leading a team in every way possible to the 3rd best record in the league only behind the Cavs and Lakers has nothing to do with how good of a player he is.

Dwight>Melo>>>Wade=Durant... End of story.

Dude you're a tool, hasn't your mother ever taught you to think before you talk?

RaiderLakersA's
02-25-2010, 12:53 PM
He got the greatest coach of all-time to guide him through his entire career.

Phil Jackson was NOT with Kobe through Kobe's ENTIRE NBA career. Kobe joined the Lakers in 1996. Jackson didn't come on board until 1999. By that time Kobe was already the starter, showing enough promise that the Lakers felt comfortable letting Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones go.

jim51990
02-25-2010, 01:15 PM
Honestly I don't get it I dont think kobe is close to bron any more
Lebron is just more of a complete player And if Kobe only cares about winning he wouldnt have forced the shaq trade. He's still a self absorbed primadona

Jaji
02-25-2010, 01:50 PM
Why do you think i said does it honestly matter in () in my other post?

Your the one making it sound like if the lakers were down by 2 and kobe goes for the 2, he would miss or if they were down by 3 he would miss. That's exactly how you said it.

I only say things like that because its fun to see your reaction. You entertain me :clap:.

Tom2634
02-25-2010, 02:09 PM
I like what Kobe said, you can look at the stats, and you can look at everything, but they're asked to do different things in the systems they're in.

What makes Kobe the better player in my eyes is his determination to win. You can say what you want about Lebron being better, but at the end of the day, Kobe gets W's for you through his will and determination.

You could see the pain in his eyes, the tears coming from him when he lost in the Finals against Detroit. Those tears come from wanting to win so badly and putting everything you had into the game.

When Lebron lost, he stormed off the court like he was angry at something or someone, like he was denied something he was entitled to.

That's my take on Kobe vs. Lebron. Lebron might have more god-given abilities, might be the more dominant basketball player with the combination of all his talents and attributes. I view Kobe as a player that wasn't as gifted athletically (he was SCRAWNYYYY in High School), he just put in all the hard work necessary for him to get to being the best. He has the determination to go out and win.

Lebron doesn't have the determination to win? He sure as hell did in Detroit a few years back when he turned in the final 25 points in one of the better playoff performances of all time. But to Lakers fans this was probably "ball hogging." The pain in his eyes, how about the Nuggets game this year when Melo put one in over him and he missed the game winner and all the Lakers fans were laughing at him because he looked like he was about to cry? He was probably crying because he didn't score 50, right Laker fans? Kobe put in all the hard work, but Lebron didn't? The big concerns about Lebron coming out were his defense and his jumper. Being named to the all-defense first team and obvious improvement on his mid range and 3 point game just came to him because he is "more athletically gifted?"

the unknown
02-25-2010, 02:13 PM
Lebron always says Kobe
Kobe always says Lebron

I think Wade skill set could put him up thier but i dont know..

Put Wade on the Lakers and minus Kobe there will be just as good..
Put Brandon Roy on the Lakers and minues Kobe there will still be almost just as good

i dont think anyother team is so 1 man depended on maybe besides the Hornets with Chris Paul..

How did the Hornets win 55-60 games with that roster.. thats amazing

Cavs are built well.. every guard can shoot the lights out..
they have atheltic players who can finish around the hoop
Energy players
Post Players...

Kobe is the best right now to me

PC
02-25-2010, 02:16 PM
Kobe has the rings but let's be fair, LeBron's never had a team close to as good as what Kobe has had

Tom2634
02-25-2010, 02:24 PM
edit: Double Post

JNA17
02-25-2010, 02:26 PM
I only say things like that because its fun to see your reaction. You entertain me :clap:.

no comment....lol

Bring The Heat
02-25-2010, 02:40 PM
D-wade all day baby!

Seriously though more often than not people who are laker fans will say Kobe is the best, Cavs fans will say Lebron is the best.... Just the way it is

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 02:59 PM
Kobe has the rings but let's be fair, LeBron's never had a team close to as good as what Kobe has had

Well, your right, Antawn Jamison is a scrub. He's done nothing in his career. Shaq was good maybe 1 yr in his entire 18 yrs career, but he's has been anything special. Mo Williams did absolutely nothing in Milwaukee before coming to the Cavs. Jamario Moon was the waterboy in his days with Toronto and Miami. And everyone thought Anthony Parker was just a nobody trying to emulate his sister Candace Parker.

G-Funk
02-25-2010, 03:00 PM
Kobe has the rings but let's be fair, LeBron's never had a team close to as good as what Kobe has had

Kobe did what any great would do when given the chance by putting a team around him.

J-Relo
02-25-2010, 04:02 PM
Kobe said it right...

if both players go side by side it's only rings that can decide...

Raoul Duke_91
02-25-2010, 04:22 PM
Kobes right rings talk. Im not a lebron hater but IMO lebron isnt clutch like kobe. Kobe almost always makes the big shots and If I had to win a championship hes still the guy id want

bigsams50
02-25-2010, 04:28 PM
Well, your right, Antawn Jamison is a scrub. He's done nothing in his career. Shaq was good maybe 1 yr in his entire 18 yrs career, but he's has been anything special. Mo Williams did absolutely nothing in Milwaukee before coming to the Cavs. Jamario Moon was the waterboy in his days with Toronto and Miami. And everyone thought Anthony Parker was just a nobody trying to emulate his sister Candace Parker.

I think he was referring to Lebrons teams in past tense, meaning before this year

Raoul Duke_91
02-25-2010, 04:29 PM
Well, your right, Antawn Jamison is a scrub. He's done nothing in his career. Shaq was good maybe 1 yr in his entire 18 yrs career, but he's has been anything special. Mo Williams did absolutely nothing in Milwaukee before coming to the Cavs. Jamario Moon was the waterboy in his days with Toronto and Miami. And everyone thought Anthony Parker was just a nobody trying to emulate his sister Candace Parker.

lol cmon bro.... I agree kobe is better but that is a way unfair argument. Jamisons been on the team what.....all of about a week now. and this is shaqs first year. well see what happens this post season. I will say this though Id LOVE to see a Lakers/Cavs final and id LOVE to see kobe just take it to him and remind everyone who is still the king of the league :cool:

AI4MVP
02-25-2010, 04:29 PM
can we jsut make an officailly kobe vs lebron thread and sticky it?

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 04:30 PM
Here's a question to you Cavs fans....


ONE GAME, GAME 7, NBA FINALS. FOR THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP. WHO DO YOU WANT???


KOBE BRYANT


OR



LEBRON JAMES



????

jim51990
02-25-2010, 04:39 PM
Here's a question to you Cavs fans....


ONE GAME, GAME 7, NBA FINALS. FOR THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP. WHO DO YOU WANT???


KOBE BRYANT


OR



LEBRON JAMES



????

im not a cavs fan but i say from this year on i want lebron

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 04:46 PM
Kobe is right at the end of their career they wont be compared by who had better numbers and stats but who had more championships right now they play against each other few years down the road they wont and all that'll be remembered is who has the Rings.


Theres a reason MJ, Magic, Kareem, Bird etc.. are legends above other legends and thats because of the Rings if Lebron wants to be with those guys in history he needs to win Rings.

drose231
02-25-2010, 05:09 PM
Well, your right, Antawn Jamison is a scrub. He's done nothing in his career. Shaq was good maybe 1 yr in his entire 18 yrs career, but he's has been anything special. Mo Williams did absolutely nothing in Milwaukee before coming to the Cavs. Jamario Moon was the waterboy in his days with Toronto and Miami. And everyone thought Anthony Parker was just a nobody trying to emulate his sister Candace Parker.

How freaking ignorant are you? How many games has he had with Jamison? 3? Exactly. Shaq isn't in his prime. Kobe had Shaq when he was arguably the great player ever. Pau Gasol is MUCH better than both Shaq and Jamison currently. I'm pretty sure you know how stupid what you said is, but you are just trying to believe that it is legitamite so you can still believe Kobe is better than LeBron. Seriously, some of you will say anything just so you can keep tricking yourself into believing Kobe is better than LeBron.

quiksilver2491
02-25-2010, 05:12 PM
Well, your right, Antawn Jamison is a scrub. He's done nothing in his career. Shaq was good maybe 1 yr in his entire 18 yrs career, but he's has been anything special. Mo Williams did absolutely nothing in Milwaukee before coming to the Cavs. Jamario Moon was the waterboy in his days with Toronto and Miami. And everyone thought Anthony Parker was just a nobody trying to emulate his sister Candace Parker.

Honestly, this is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on PSD, I've been on the site about 3+ years and you can use the search function to see that I don't say that too often, so congratulations for your truly remarkable post of stupidity :clap:

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 05:14 PM
How freaking ignorant are you? How many games has he had with Jamison? 3? Exactly. Shaq isn't in his prime. Kobe had Shaq when he was arguably the great player ever. Pau Gasol is MUCH better than both Shaq and Jamison currently. I'm pretty sure you know how stupid what you said is, but you are just trying to believe that it is legitamite so you can still believe Kobe is better than LeBron. Seriously, some of you will say anything just so you can keep tricking yourself into believing Kobe is better than LeBron.

What you talking about Lebron is Better than MJ already.

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 05:15 PM
How freaking ignorant are you? How many games has he had with Jamison? 3? Exactly. Shaq isn't in his prime. Kobe had Shaq when he was arguably the great player ever. Pau Gasol is MUCH better than both Shaq and Jamison currently. I'm pretty sure you know how stupid what you said is, but you are just trying to believe that it is legitamite so you can still believe Kobe is better than LeBron. Seriously, some of you will say anything just so you can keep tricking yourself into believing Kobe is better than LeBron.


Honestly, this is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on PSD, I've been on the site about 3+ years and you can use the search function to see that I don't say that too often, so congratulations for your truly remarkable post of stupidity :clap:

You guys ever heard of sarcasm? Guess not. :eyebrow:

twoearl
02-25-2010, 05:16 PM
Kobe is a Top 15 player of ALL TIME. Lebron right now is 89th.

JNA17
02-25-2010, 05:17 PM
Kobe is a Top 10 player of ALL TIME. Lebron right now is 89th.

fixed

drose231
02-25-2010, 05:19 PM
You guys ever heard of sarcasm? Guess not. :eyebrow:

You ever learn how to read sarcasm? Obviously not. He responding sarcastically to the guy who said LeBron never had teammates around him... The point of his sarcasm was to say that LeBron has had good teammates around him, which is utterly and extremely stupid.

drose231
02-25-2010, 05:21 PM
What you talking about Lebron is Better than MJ already.

Typical. Can't think of a logical argument, so you think of some sarcastic, dim witted response to imply that what I said was ridiculous. Some of you Lakers fans never fail to leave me in awe.

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 05:24 PM
You ever learn how to read sarcasm? Obviously not. He responding sarcastically to the guy who said LeBron never had teammates around him... The point of his sarcasm was to say that LeBron has had good teammates around him, which is utterly and extremely stupid.

He does have good teammates around him now.


You know there is a reason many people believed they could win a title this year when they got Shaq and many believed they got even better when getting Jamison. Mo has mad an All-Star so he must not be too bad himself and Big Z is a pretty solid back up if you ask me and they'll be getting him. I dont you would have to be pretty Ignorant to say he doesn't have good teammates around him.

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 05:25 PM
Typical. Can't think of a logical argument, so you think of some sarcastic, dim witted response to imply that what I said was ridiculous. Some of you Lakers fans never fail to leave me in awe.

IDK man the couple of threads you made left PSD in Awe so you have no room to talk. :D

drose231
02-25-2010, 05:29 PM
He does have good teammates around him now.


You know there is a reason many people believed they could win a title this year when they got Shaq and many believed they got even better when getting Jamison. Mo has mad an All-Star so he must not be too bad himself and Big Z is a pretty solid back up if you ask me and they'll be getting him. I dont you would have to be pretty Ignorant to say he doesn't have good teammates around him.

Again, read the context of his freaking post. He was talking about the past. He has had Jamison for 3 games? Nice. Shaq is WAY past his prime. Kobe still has a MUCH better team. Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Artest? That alone is easily better than who LeBron has. Look at Kobe's teams in the past. A prime Shaq. Kobe has been surrounded with much better talent during his whole career. When both players had no talent around them, LeBron did better. He lead his team to the finals. It is scary to think what LeBron would do with the teams Kobe had.

drose231
02-25-2010, 05:30 PM
IDK man the couple of threads you made left PSD in Awe so you have no room to talk. :D

The sad part is that I was clearly joking, and you still couldn't detect it. The other sad part is that your are serious with the ridiculous posts you make.

DodgerBulls
02-25-2010, 05:36 PM
Comparing bill russel vs robert horry does not fully pertain to this specific situation. lebron vs kobe is a completely different situation, these two (to state the obvious) are franchise players that carry their teams to championships. So you're comment has little to no weight.


Anyway, I like how Kobe answered the question by choosing to opt out of making a statement. I also like how he expressed his opinion regarding what HIS definition of "being a better player" is. He obviously believes that Lebron is great, and understands that he is still in the early stages of his great career. I agree with kobe, let time tell the tale and let's see who's had a greater impact on the league.

So this means that if Lebron wins a championship, he is better than Kobe statistically and also based on the rings they got as the franchise player of the team? When Kobe won the first three, Shaq was clearly the face of the Lakers.

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 05:39 PM
The sad part is that I was clearly joking, and you still couldn't detect it. The other sad part is that your are serious with the ridiculous posts you make.

Oh ok so you can be sarcastic but nobody else can got ya.



Oh I was clearly serious with my post that Lebron is better than the GOAT MJ. :rolleyes:

bchissie
02-25-2010, 05:44 PM
So this means that if Lebron wins a championship, he is better than Kobe statistically and also based on the rings they got as the franchise player of the team? When Kobe won the first three, Shaq was clearly the face of the Lakers.

:facepalm:

Purple&Gold24
02-25-2010, 05:46 PM
So this means that if Lebron wins a championship, he is better than Kobe statistically and also based on the rings they got as the franchise player of the team? When Kobe won the first three, Shaq was clearly the face of the Lakers.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 05:53 PM
So this means that if Lebron wins a championship, he is better than Kobe statistically and also based on the rings they got as the franchise player of the team? When Kobe won the first three, Shaq was clearly the face of the Lakers.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 05:54 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Purple&Gold24 = BEST SIG ON PSD! :clap::clap::clap::clap:

bchissie
02-25-2010, 05:59 PM
You guys didnt know? Only the best player gets a ring for winning a championship, because he obviously was the only reason the team won the championship, and the rest of the players on the team suck and had nothing to do with winning. Scottie Pippin has no rings. If the Cavs win this year Jamison and Mo Williams dont get rings. I wonder who got the ring when the Pistions wont their last championship. Billups? Rip? Sheed? There can only be one who deserves it.

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 06:00 PM
This drose231 is one very funny character :laugh2:

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 06:01 PM
So this means that if Lebron wins a championship, he is better than Kobe statistically and also based on the rings they got as the franchise player of the team? When Kobe won the first three, Shaq was clearly the face of the Lakers.

That maybe true but averaging 25.7 PPG 5.8 Reb per gam and 5 assists per game in those championship runs was not needed to win those :rolleyes: .....

Kobe-PPG:25.7 Reb:5.8 Ast:5

Shaq-PPG:29.8 Reb:14.4 Ast:3

Obviously Shaq got the MVP but without Kobe they dont win those championships.

drose231
02-25-2010, 06:03 PM
This drose231 is one very funny character :laugh2:

Thanks bra. It would be nice if you or one of the other laker fans would make a legitimite arguement on why Kobe is better than LeBron, rather than just stating it, agreeing with each other, and laughing at those who disagree. It really makes you guys look bad when you do that.

But I would be happy if we could have a well thought out debate, but it doesn't seem like you are capable of that.

bchissie
02-25-2010, 06:05 PM
Lebron is better than Kobe. I never said he wasn't. Right now, this season, Lebron is the best player in the world.

EYDI819
02-25-2010, 06:16 PM
Kobe said it right...

if both players go side by side it's only rings that can decide...

Does that mean Horry is better than Kobe? better yet, does that mean Horry is better than MJ? Horry has 7 MJ has 6 Kobe has 4. No sense in that arguement

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 06:19 PM
Does that mean Horry is better than Kobe? better yet, does that mean Horry is better than MJ? Horry has 7 MJ has 6 Kobe has 4. No sense in that arguement

Dont be stupid now Horry was a role player Kobe and MJ were NOT ROLE Players for those championships.

ChiSox219
02-25-2010, 06:21 PM
Thanks bra. It would be nice if you or one of the other laker fans would make a legitimite arguement on why Kobe is better than LeBron, rather than just stating it, agreeing with each other, and laughing at those who disagree. It really makes you guys look bad when you do that.

But I would be happy if we could have a well thought out debate, but it doesn't seem like you are capable of that.

Don't hold your breath.

tredigs
02-25-2010, 06:21 PM
I literally can't stand your method of thinking... Do you actually know nothing about basketball??

Is Shaq now currently a better player than Dwight because he has four rings and Dwight has none? NO...

So why is that a legit argument to use when comparing LeBron and Kobe? According to your flawed method of thinking you must also think that Garnett is better than Bosh? Tony Parker is better than Chris Paul and Deron Williams? Ray Allen is better than Brandon Roy?

I am sick of people using the PAST when deciding who is the best player in the PRESENT... It's totally illogical and really exposes the flaws in your basketball knowledge.


THIS ^ is the bottom line in the argument. I can't even stand to have this debate on this forum. The Laker fans are so desperate to say that Kobe is the better player that they will willingly ignore the fact that Lebron was brought onto the WORST team in the league, and within a few years they were competing for a title, without ANY significant transactions or draft picks.

To compare rings of a player who came into the league with the most dominant player of all time on their team, along with a top 5 coach of all time to a player who was drafted to a team out of high school, handed the reigns and told "Lead US!" is just amazing to me. Not to mention the EIGHT or so years he has on the guy in the league.

"Oh, but Kobe's better in the playoffs!" -- No, he isn't. http://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/playoffs.htm

"Oh, but Kobe is more CLUTCH!" -- No, he isn't. http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

He is an inferior player. Put Kobe on last years or the year priors Cavaliers team, do you think Kobe wins the title? HELL no. The fact that Lebron can lead these teams to be championship caliber is ********.

So, eight years after Kobe retires, if you would like to compare rings, THEN that will be fair (although regardless of what you want to say, Kobe was the Robin to Shaq's Batman, and Lebron's always gonna be the Dark Knight). But until that happens? It just shows a complete lack of understanding of the game to even contemplate bringing that up in the discussion.

Basically, it's a clear white flag that you concede Lebron as the better player to even think about bringing up rings at this point, considering their situations [again, YEARS + CAST. For the Corky's from Life Goes On out there].

bchissie
02-25-2010, 06:21 PM
Does that mean Horry is better than Kobe? better yet, does that mean Horry is better than MJ? Horry has 7 MJ has 6 Kobe has 4. No sense in that arguement

Smart alec

bchissie
02-25-2010, 06:24 PM
Once again....Lebron James is better than Kobe Bryant. Right now, this season, Lebron James is the best basketball player on Earth.

EYDI819
02-25-2010, 06:25 PM
Dont be stupid now Horry was a role player Kobe and MJ were NOT ROLE Players for those championships.

Stupid? You are the one who is stupid. You guys are the ones talking about rings after the career is over. Stats vs Rings is the argument. It is either stats or rings. That has been the argument for this post.

If stats then Lebron owns Kobe. If it is rings, then Kobe owns Lebron. But if you are making an argument that Kobe is better than Lebron because of rings then it is a stupid argument.

Do you get it now? Do I have to spell it out to you?

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 06:26 PM
THIS ^ is the bottom line in the argument. I can't even stand to have this debate on this forum. The Laker fans are so desperate to say that Kobe is the better player that they will willingly ignore the fact that Lebron was brought onto the WORST team in the league, and within a few years they were competing for a title, without ANY significant transactions or draft picks.

To compare rings of a player who came into the league with the most dominant player of all time on their team, along with a top 5 coach of all time to a player who was drafted to a team out of high school, handed the reigns and told "Lead US!" is just amazing to me. Not to mention the EIGHT or so years he has on the guy in the league.

"Oh, but Kobe's better in the playoffs!" -- No, he isn't. http://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/playoffs.htm

"Oh, but Kobe is more CLUTCH!" -- No, he isn't. http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

He is an inferior player. Put Kobe on last years or the year priors Cavaliers team, do you think Kobe wins the title? HELL no. The fact that Lebron can lead these teams to be championship caliber is ********.

So, eight years after Kobe retires, if you would like to compare rings, THEN that will be fair (although regardless of what you want to say, Kobe was the Robin to Shaq's Batman, and Lebron's always gonna be the Dark Knight). But until that happens? It just shows a complete lack of understanding of the game to even contemplate bringing that up in the discussion.

Basically, it's a clear white flag that you concede Lebron as the better player to even think about bringing up rings at this point, considering their situations [again, YEARS + CAST. For the Corky's from Life Goes On out there].

Yeah ok use a reference that only uses 6 years of their career yeah thats acurate those stats dont include the previous Lakers championship runs that Kobe has been in or clutch stats for before 03 and after 08. :rolleyes:

bchissie
02-25-2010, 06:27 PM
Stupid? You are the one who is stupid. You guys are the ones talking about rings after the career is over. Stats vs Rings is the argument. It is either stats or rings. That has been the argument for this post.

If stats then Lebron owns Kobe. If it is rings, then Kobe owns Lebron. But if you are making an argument that Kobe is better than Lebron because of rings then it is a stupid argument.

Do you get it now? Do I have to spell it out to you?

Try using stats and rings buddy. Thats what they've been saying all along.

Purple&Gold24
02-25-2010, 06:27 PM
Purple&Gold24 = BEST SIG ON PSD! :clap::clap::clap::clap:


:bow: thanks!

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 06:28 PM
Stupid? You are the one who is stupid. You guys are the ones talking about rings after the career is over. Stats vs Rings is the argument. It is either stats or rings. That has been the argument for this post.

If stats then Lebron owns Kobe. If it is rings, then Kobe owns Lebron. But if you are making an argument that Kobe is better than Lebron because of rings then it is a stupid argument.

Do you get it now? Do I have to spell it out to you?

How about a combination of STATS AND RINGS you ever thought of that? :rolleyes:

You dont think that if Bill Russell had the stats he would be considered the best of all-time or have a stronger case for it?

Or if Wilt has as many Rings he'd be considered the GOAT?

EYDI819
02-25-2010, 06:30 PM
Try using stats and rings buddy. Thats what they've been saying all along.

Didn't you just read what i wrote? Lebron owns Kobe when its about the stats now and Kobe owns Lebron when its about Rings. What is the argument then?

FWIW I don't even think Kobe was the one who carried the Lakers last year......... it was MBENGA... LOL

this thread is not going to die

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 06:30 PM
Thanks bra. It would be nice if you or one of the other laker fans would make a legitimite arguement on why Kobe is better than LeBron, rather than just stating it, agreeing with each other, and laughing at those who disagree. It really makes you guys look bad when you do that.

But I would be happy if we could have a well thought out debate, but it doesn't seem like you are capable of that.


Aite man, here it goes:


We've witnessed the speed, agility, size, and force of the physical specimen that is LeBron James. There is no one, in the history of the National Basketball Association who has had the combination of skills, attributes, and the physicality that this guy has. He is a one of a kind player. There has been no one like him. He is perhaps the best finisher around the basket in the game today. He is like a freight train in transition that is almost unstoppable. He has an improving jumpshot and a very very good 3 pt FG%. He is a rebounding force at 6.5-8 a game, he's a willing passer at 7-8 assists a game, he is the best in catching up to someone on the fast break and blocking their shot. He has hit a few clutch shots the last 2 seasons in the regular season and playoffs. He's a threat to be an almost triple-double each and every night. He's had legendary playoff performances (aka, Game 5 07 ECF @ Detroit). He's an improved one-on-one defender because he knows how to use his body and size to rough up opponents (this is a good thing). He has a league mvp, and is most likely going to repeat as league mvp. He has 2 all-star game MVPs, a trip to the NBA Finals, a ROY, an Olympic Gold, an Olympic Bronze, a scoring title (could very well win his 2nd scoring title this season).

I ADMIRE THE MAN's BASKETBALL ABILITIES...

BUT...



This does not make him "absolutely" the best player in the game today. Although he has a much improved jumpshot, it is still wildly inconsistent. If he has a guy who is really going to put a hand in his face, HE WILL NOT MAKE IT 90% OF THE TIME. He misses the intangibles like getting after the ball aggressively on defense (Kobe does this), he lacks the necessary footwork, he still has not developed the great sense of understanding the angles of basketball such as where he can shoot, where he can post up, picking his spots on the floor, effectively using the glass as an aid in making baskets etc. He HAS NOT LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE DEFEAT.

And what differentiates the two between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James is that the vets in today's game give props to Kobe moreso. The young players, even if they are not on the Lakers, will look to Kobe Bryant for advice. They will work with him over the summer, guys like D-wade have tried to learn some defensive tactics with Kobe, someone always gets something outta work with Kobe Bryant, whether it's an improved individual game the next season, or coming to that new season with a different mindset and mental aggressiveness. The 2007 and 2008 Summers were valuable for most of those young guys.



There will be guys, who used to be on the Lakers, that after leaving, will say "that guy made me a better player". Kobe's experience, work ethic, and his one attribute that he has that NOBODY has in the league today......HIS OBSESSION WITH THE GAME OF BASKETBALL. The fact that he is totally fixated upon the game of basketball. It makes his peers go in awe, and they too wish they had the dedication, the mental strain, and concentration to concentrate on basketball 24/7.


Kobe Bryant can beat your entire team all by himself. He's done it SEVERAL SEVERAL SEVERAL times. And the shots that he can make at the end of games or in the 4th qtr are "heartbreaks". Those types of made baskets that can change the momentum of the game in favor of his team, and those types of made baskets that are "taking your heart out of your chest and stomping on it".



Kobe is mentally tougher than LeBron, he's way more fundamentally sound than Lebron (HANDS DOWN!), he understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents, so he is very methodical in how he attacks his opponents offensively, and sees what he can get away with defensively (either playing as a free safety, or going right in the offensive guy's face, depending on the player).


There is so much more I can say, but I'm just damn tired of typing, lol.

EYDI819
02-25-2010, 06:32 PM
you guys can't argue about who is better in their career because they did not even start in the same decade.

EYDI819
02-25-2010, 06:35 PM
how do you guys define the best player? is it by carrying the team? is it the most wins? is it the most points? is it the most rings?

there are a lot of definitions of the best player in everybody's minds...... you guys have to have a ground where you can have a basis on who is the best..... otherwise this is going round and round

ChiSox219
02-25-2010, 06:37 PM
Yeah ok use a reference that only uses 6 years of their career yeah thats acurate those stats dont include the previous Lakers championship runs that Kobe has been in or clutch stats for before 03 and after 08. :rolleyes:

Twist it how you want, for a five year period of time Kobe failed at an incredible rate when it came to making clutch shots. That a large sample size and over that time their have others who performed much better and those guys don't labeled as "Mr. Clutch".

bchissie
02-25-2010, 06:39 PM
how do you guys define the best player? is it by carrying the team? is it the most wins? is it the most points? is it the most rings?

there are a lot of definitions of the best player in everybody's minds...... you guys have to have a ground where you can have a basis on who is the best..... otherwise this is going round and round

Exactly, its a combination of sooo many things. It's really an opinion. There's no one stat that shows who is best. Kobe Bryant is my favorite player all-time. With that said, right now Lebron James is better. Lebron is the best in the world. I'm not going to say Kobe has passed the torch yet though. When Kobe stops winning championships, then the torch will have been passed.

bchissie
02-25-2010, 06:41 PM
Aite man, here it goes:


We've witnessed the speed, agility, size, and force of the physical specimen that is LeBron James. There is no one, in the history of the National Basketball Association who has had the combination of skills, attributes, and the physicality that this guy has. He is a one of a kind player. There has been no one like him. He is perhaps the best finisher around the basket in the game today. He is like a freight train in transition that is almost unstoppable. He has an improving jumpshot and a very very good 3 pt FG%. He is a rebounding force at 6.5-8 a game, he's a willing passer at 7-8 assists a game, he is the best in catching up to someone on the fast break and blocking their shot. He has hit a few clutch shots the last 2 seasons in the regular season and playoffs. He's a threat to be an almost triple-double each and every night. He's had legendary playoff performances (aka, Game 5 07 ECF @ Detroit). He's an improved one-on-one defender because he knows how to use his body and size to rough up opponents (this is a good thing). He has a league mvp, and is most likely going to repeat as league mvp. He has 2 all-star game MVPs, a trip to the NBA Finals, a ROY, an Olympic Gold, an Olympic Bronze, a scoring title (could very well win his 2nd scoring title this season).

I ADMIRE THE MAN's BASKETBALL ABILITIES...

BUT...



This does not make him "absolutely" the best player in the game today. Although he has a much improved jumpshot, it is still wildly inconsistent. If he has a guy who is really going to put a hand in his face, HE WILL NOT MAKE IT 90% OF THE TIME. He misses the intangibles like getting after the ball aggressively on defense (Kobe does this), he lacks the necessary footwork, he still has not developed the great sense of understanding the angles of basketball such as where he can shoot, where he can post up, picking his spots on the floor, effectively using the glass as an aid in making baskets etc. He HAS NOT LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE DEFEAT.

And what differentiates the two between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James is that the vets in today's game give props to Kobe moreso. The young players, even if they are not on the Lakers, will look to Kobe Bryant for advice. They will work with him over the summer, guys like D-wade have tried to learn some defensive tactics with Kobe, someone always gets something outta work with Kobe Bryant, whether it's an improved individual game the next season, or coming to that new season with a different mindset and mental aggressiveness. The 2007 and 2008 Summers were valuable for most of those young guys.



There will be guys, who used to be on the Lakers, that after leaving, will say "that guy made me a better player". Kobe's experience, work ethic, and his one attribute that he has that NOBODY has in the league today......HIS OBSESSION WITH THE GAME OF BASKETBALL. The fact that he is totally fixated upon the game of basketball. It makes his peers go in awe, and they too wish they had the dedication, the mental strain, and concentration to concentrate on basketball 24/7.


Kobe Bryant can beat your entire team all by himself. He's done it SEVERAL SEVERAL SEVERAL times. And the shots that he can make at the end of games or in the 4th qtr are "heartbreaks". Those types of made baskets that can change the momentum of the game in favor of his team, and those types of made baskets that are "taking your heart out of your chest and stomping on it".



Kobe is mentally tougher than LeBron, he's way more fundamentally sound than Lebron (HANDS DOWN!), he understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents, so he is very methodical in how he attacks his opponents offensively, and sees what he can get away with defensively (either playing as a free safety, or going right in the offensive guy's face, depending on the player).


There is so much more I can say, but I'm just damn tired of typing, lol.

Great post by the way.

TYoung21
02-25-2010, 06:45 PM
Kobe's lucky he has gasol, odom and artest as opposed to Brons peice of **** supporting cast

EYDI819
02-25-2010, 06:47 PM
Aite man, here it goes:


We've witnessed the speed, agility, size, and force of the physical specimen that is LeBron James. There is no one, in the history of the National Basketball Association who has had the combination of skills, attributes, and the physicality that this guy has. He is a one of a kind player. There has been no one like him. He is perhaps the best finisher around the basket in the game today. He is like a freight train in transition that is almost unstoppable. He has an improving jumpshot and a very very good 3 pt FG%. He is a rebounding force at 6.5-8 a game, he's a willing passer at 7-8 assists a game, he is the best in catching up to someone on the fast break and blocking their shot. He has hit a few clutch shots the last 2 seasons in the regular season and playoffs. He's a threat to be an almost triple-double each and every night. He's had legendary playoff performances (aka, Game 5 07 ECF @ Detroit). He's an improved one-on-one defender because he knows how to use his body and size to rough up opponents (this is a good thing). He has a league mvp, and is most likely going to repeat as league mvp. He has 2 all-star game MVPs, a trip to the NBA Finals, a ROY, an Olympic Gold, an Olympic Bronze, a scoring title (could very well win his 2nd scoring title this season).

I ADMIRE THE MAN's BASKETBALL ABILITIES...

BUT...



This does not make him "absolutely" the best player in the game today. Although he has a much improved jumpshot, it is still wildly inconsistent. If he has a guy who is really going to put a hand in his face, HE WILL NOT MAKE IT 90% OF THE TIME. He misses the intangibles like getting after the ball aggressively on defense (Kobe does this), he lacks the necessary footwork, he still has not developed the great sense of understanding the angles of basketball such as where he can shoot, where he can post up, picking his spots on the floor, effectively using the glass as an aid in making baskets etc. He HAS NOT LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE DEFEAT.

And what differentiates the two between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James is that the vets in today's game give props to Kobe moreso. The young players, even if they are not on the Lakers, will look to Kobe Bryant for advice. They will work with him over the summer, guys like D-wade have tried to learn some defensive tactics with Kobe, someone always gets something outta work with Kobe Bryant, whether it's an improved individual game the next season, or coming to that new season with a different mindset and mental aggressiveness. The 2007 and 2008 Summers were valuable for most of those young guys.



There will be guys, who used to be on the Lakers, that after leaving, will say "that guy made me a better player". Kobe's experience, work ethic, and his one attribute that he has that NOBODY has in the league today......HIS OBSESSION WITH THE GAME OF BASKETBALL. The fact that he is totally fixated upon the game of basketball. It makes his peers go in awe, and they too wish they had the dedication, the mental strain, and concentration to concentrate on basketball 24/7.


Kobe Bryant can beat your entire team all by himself. He's done it SEVERAL SEVERAL SEVERAL times. And the shots that he can make at the end of games or in the 4th qtr are "heartbreaks". Those types of made baskets that can change the momentum of the game in favor of his team, and those types of made baskets that are "taking your heart out of your chest and stomping on it".



Kobe is mentally tougher than LeBron, he's way more fundamentally sound than Lebron (HANDS DOWN!), he understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents, so he is very methodical in how he attacks his opponents offensively, and sees what he can get away with defensively (either playing as a free safety, or going right in the offensive guy's face, depending on the player).


There is so much more I can say, but I'm just damn tired of typing, lol.

to sum it all up

LEBRON is the better athlete and a freak

KOBE has the best bastketball IQ and Killer Instinct

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 06:48 PM
Kobe's lucky he has gasol, odom and artest as opposed to Brons peice of **** supporting cast

FAIL :facepalm:

Bruno
02-25-2010, 06:48 PM
THIS ^ is the bottom line in the argument. I can't even stand to have this debate on this forum. The Laker fans are so desperate to say that Kobe is the better player that they will willingly ignore the fact that Lebron was brought onto the WORST team in the league, and within a few years they were competing for a title, without ANY significant transactions or draft picks.

To compare rings of a player who came into the league with the most dominant player of all time on their team, along with a top 5 coach of all time to a player who was drafted to a team out of high school, handed the reigns and told "Lead US!" is just amazing to me. Not to mention the EIGHT or so years he has on the guy in the league.

"Oh, but Kobe's better in the playoffs!" -- No, he isn't. http://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/playoffs.htm

"Oh, but Kobe is more CLUTCH!" -- No, he isn't. http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

He is an inferior player. Put Kobe on last years or the year priors Cavaliers team, do you think Kobe wins the title? HELL no. The fact that Lebron can lead these teams to be championship caliber is ********.

So, eight years after Kobe retires, if you would like to compare rings, THEN that will be fair (although regardless of what you want to say, Kobe was the Robin to Shaq's Batman, and Lebron's always gonna be the Dark Knight). But until that happens? It just shows a complete lack of understanding of the game to even contemplate bringing that up in the discussion.

Basically, it's a clear white flag that you concede Lebron as the better player to even think about bringing up rings at this point, considering their situations [again, YEARS + CAST. For the Corky's from Life Goes On out there].

Totally a fair argument. Rather than mentioning the three-peat, lets just compare what they've done since LeBron took the Cavs to the Finals in 2006-2007.

Since the 2006-2007 season:

LeBron has 1 regular season MVP, one scoring title, and one NBA finals appearance.
Bryant has 1 regular season MVP, one scoring title, two NBA finals appearances, one NBA championship, one Finals MVP.

The argument comparing Bryants entire career against LeBrons to justify him as the better player, here and now in 2010 isn't well rounded. But I do think we can compare what they've done in the past three years here (ever since LeBron was good enough to take a team to the finals).

LeBron is playing out of his head, and has had a BETTER regular season thus far than Bryant has. But don't forget that Bryant has been playing with a broken index finger on his shooting hand, and has had other nagging injuries- we can't just completely ignore that fact. Before he broke his finger, Bryant was shooting a career high FG% of 49%- Lebronesque efficiency, and he also led the Lakers to an 8-3 start without Gasol, and with a new to the triangle starting SF.

I think the LeBron people have a fine argument here. But LeBron isn't the 100%, indisputable best player yet- especially when his main competition for the top spot is the reigning finals MVP and champion. Losing with home court advantage in the ECF last year in six games, to a team that the Lakers smashed in five games weeks later doesn't help his argument here either.

What Bryant is trying to say here is this. I don't care if LeBron is better here and now...maybe he is- I'm 31 years old- he's 25, the laws of nature would dictate that hes better RIGHT NOW. Bryants looking at it in the terms of legacy, and he knows that if he gets another ring this year, than LeBron will never catch him.

Also, I think you need to go back and look at the final 4 mintues of the Spain USA gold medal game. LeBron may have been chosen to lead the team, but it was clear who took that game over in the finals minutes.

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 06:55 PM
Kobe's lucky he has gasol, odom and artest as opposed to Brons peice of **** supporting cast

Oh ok so if Lebron wins this year we can say he's lucky he got Shaq and Jamison because he NEVER won one without them right? Yeah thought so.

JIMMY CONWAY
02-25-2010, 07:00 PM
Kobe

ChiSox219
02-25-2010, 07:03 PM
Oh ok so if Lebron wins this year we can say he's lucky he got Shaq and Jamison because he NEVER won one without them right? Yeah thought so.

Some Laker fans...

Kobe is playing with three other top 40 players. Jamison and Shaq are not better than Gasol, Odom, or Bynum. Jamison and Shaq are on par with Artest.

Don't even reply, I won't be able to see your post.

Avenged
02-25-2010, 07:11 PM
Who cares! let Lebron be the best regular season player. I'd much rather have Kobe dominate the playoffs and winning championships.

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 07:15 PM
What Bryant is trying to say here is this. I don't care if LeBron is better here and now...maybe he is- I'm 31 years old- he's 25, the laws of nature would dictate that hes better RIGHT NOW. Bryants looking at it in the terms of legacy, and he knows that if he gets another ring this year, than LeBron will never catch him.

Also, I think you need to go back and look at the final 4 mintues of the Spain USA gold medal game. LeBron may have been chosen to lead the team, but it was clear who took that game over in the finals minutes.


THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

:nod:

Bruno
02-25-2010, 07:17 PM
Some Laker fans...

Kobe is playing with three other top 40 players. Jamison and Shaq are not better than Gasol, Odom, or Bynum. Jamison and Shaq are on par with Artest.

Don't even reply, I won't be able to see your post.

Bryant playing with "three other top 40 players" has nothing to do with what he posted.

If LeBron wins the title this year, he's playing with Mo, Shaq, Jamison and Z. Four former all-stars. And if he wins, people will bring up the same BS argument that Bryant had to face- that he couldn't win it with out All-stars, that were brought to the team through "lopsided" trades.

It's a crap argument because no one can do it alone, he's just stating the obvious- that LeBron detractors will bring it up to discredit his championship, just like how people did the same thing to Bryant when he finally won.

DCB/LAL
02-25-2010, 07:20 PM
Some Laker fans...

Kobe is playing with three other top 40 players. Jamison and Shaq are not better than Gasol, Odom, or Bynum. Jamison and Shaq are on par with Artest.

Don't even reply, I won't be able to see your post.

HAHA Ignorance at its best. Nobody cared when Kobe had Smush and Kwame no all they said was "he cant win without Shaq" and now Lebron cant win without good players and its "oh he has nobody" now thats funny! :laugh: :laugh2:

Purple&Gold24
02-25-2010, 07:45 PM
Kobe's lucky he has gasol, odom and artest as opposed to Brons peice of **** supporting cast

:facepalm: Just go home.

Jaji
02-25-2010, 07:58 PM
to sum it all up

LEBRON is the better athlete and a freak

KOBE has the best bastketball IQ and Killer Instinct

But does that answer the question of who is better? I believe LeBron's pure talent is so great that it overcompensates for what he lacks in experience and puts him over the top. And just imagine what he'll be capable of when he finally learns how to play the game instead of just relying on simply being better than everyone.

HoopsDrive
02-25-2010, 08:08 PM
i literally can't stand your method of thinking... Do you actually know nothing about basketball??

Is shaq now currently a better player than dwight because he has four rings and dwight has none? No...

So why is that a legit argument to use when comparing lebron and kobe? According to your flawed method of thinking you must also think that garnett is better than bosh? Tony parker is better than chris paul and deron williams? Ray allen is better than brandon roy?

I am sick of people using the past when deciding who is the best player in the present... It's totally illogical and really exposes the flaws in your basketball knowledge.

+1

ChiSox219
02-25-2010, 08:32 PM
Bryant playing with "three other top 40 players" has nothing to do with what he posted.

If LeBron wins the title this year, he's playing with Mo, Shaq, Jamison and Z. Four former all-stars. And if he wins, people will bring up the same BS argument that Bryant had to face- that he couldn't win it with out All-stars, that were brought to the team through "lopsided" trades.

It's a crap argument because no one can do it alone, he's just stating the obvious- that LeBron detractors will bring it up to discredit his championship, just like how people did the same thing to Bryant when he finally won.

You are missing my point, Shaq, Z and Jamison aren't all-stars. Mo is a fringe all-star talent and he made it last year because of injuries and no depth at PG. Now that Rose and Rondo have improved, to go with young PGs like Devin Harris and Jameer Nelson, I would be surprised to see Mo make another all-star team barring multiple injures to the aforementioned.

Shaq is turning 38 years old next month and the Suns dumped him for absolutely nothing.

Z is 34 and having the worst season of his career whether you go by totals, per minute, or efficiency. He hasn't made an all-star team in five years.


If the Cavs win, it's on Lebron, his cast is inferior to multiple teams including but not limited to the Nuggets, Lakers, Mavs, Magic, and Celtics. Every single guy you named is past his prime and no longer all-star quality so it's just dumb for Kobe backers to claim Lebron couldn't win without an all-star supporting cast.

DCLAFAN
02-25-2010, 09:02 PM
Aite man, here it goes:


We've witnessed the speed, agility, size, and force of the physical specimen that is LeBron James. There is no one, in the history of the National Basketball Association who has had the combination of skills, attributes, and the physicality that this guy has. He is a one of a kind player. There has been no one like him. He is perhaps the best finisher around the basket in the game today. He is like a freight train in transition that is almost unstoppable. He has an improving jumpshot and a very very good 3 pt FG%. He is a rebounding force at 6.5-8 a game, he's a willing passer at 7-8 assists a game, he is the best in catching up to someone on the fast break and blocking their shot. He has hit a few clutch shots the last 2 seasons in the regular season and playoffs. He's a threat to be an almost triple-double each and every night. He's had legendary playoff performances (aka, Game 5 07 ECF @ Detroit). He's an improved one-on-one defender because he knows how to use his body and size to rough up opponents (this is a good thing). He has a league mvp, and is most likely going to repeat as league mvp. He has 2 all-star game MVPs, a trip to the NBA Finals, a ROY, an Olympic Gold, an Olympic Bronze, a scoring title (could very well win his 2nd scoring title this season).

I ADMIRE THE MAN's BASKETBALL ABILITIES...

BUT...



This does not make him "absolutely" the best player in the game today. Although he has a much improved jumpshot, it is still wildly inconsistent. If he has a guy who is really going to put a hand in his face, HE WILL NOT MAKE IT 90% OF THE TIME. He misses the intangibles like getting after the ball aggressively on defense (Kobe does this), he lacks the necessary footwork, he still has not developed the great sense of understanding the angles of basketball such as where he can shoot, where he can post up, picking his spots on the floor, effectively using the glass as an aid in making baskets etc. He HAS NOT LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE DEFEAT.

And what differentiates the two between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James is that the vets in today's game give props to Kobe moreso. The young players, even if they are not on the Lakers, will look to Kobe Bryant for advice. They will work with him over the summer, guys like D-wade have tried to learn some defensive tactics with Kobe, someone always gets something outta work with Kobe Bryant, whether it's an improved individual game the next season, or coming to that new season with a different mindset and mental aggressiveness. The 2007 and 2008 Summers were valuable for most of those young guys.



There will be guys, who used to be on the Lakers, that after leaving, will say "that guy made me a better player". Kobe's experience, work ethic, and his one attribute that he has that NOBODY has in the league today......HIS OBSESSION WITH THE GAME OF BASKETBALL. The fact that he is totally fixated upon the game of basketball. It makes his peers go in awe, and they too wish they had the dedication, the mental strain, and concentration to concentrate on basketball 24/7.


Kobe Bryant can beat your entire team all by himself. He's done it SEVERAL SEVERAL SEVERAL times. And the shots that he can make at the end of games or in the 4th qtr are "heartbreaks". Those types of made baskets that can change the momentum of the game in favor of his team, and those types of made baskets that are "taking your heart out of your chest and stomping on it".



Kobe is mentally tougher than LeBron, he's way more fundamentally sound than Lebron (HANDS DOWN!), he understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents, so he is very methodical in how he attacks his opponents offensively, and sees what he can get away with defensively (either playing as a free safety, or going right in the offensive guy's face, depending on the player).


There is so much more I can say, but I'm just damn tired of typing, lol.

Thats exactly it!:clap: I just never wanted to sit there and type all that.

DodgerBulls
02-25-2010, 09:21 PM
Of coarse Kobe is still better. Doesn't take a Kobe interview for me to see that. Although he did say that Lebron is better... So I agree with Kobe.

Well he said Lebron is better, but then take it back by saying it is based on the rings the player gets.. soo he did not really conceded the idea of Lebron is over him.

JNA17
02-25-2010, 09:24 PM
Kobe's lucky he has gasol, odom and artest as opposed to Brons peice of **** supporting cast

This is how humanity is going to self-destruct over stupidity

drose231
02-25-2010, 09:39 PM
Aite man, here it goes:


We've witnessed the speed, agility, size, and force of the physical specimen that is LeBron James. There is no one, in the history of the National Basketball Association who has had the combination of skills, attributes, and the physicality that this guy has. He is a one of a kind player. There has been no one like him. He is perhaps the best finisher around the basket in the game today. He is like a freight train in transition that is almost unstoppable. He has an improving jumpshot and a very very good 3 pt FG%. He is a rebounding force at 6.5-8 a game, he's a willing passer at 7-8 assists a game, he is the best in catching up to someone on the fast break and blocking their shot. He has hit a few clutch shots the last 2 seasons in the regular season and playoffs. He's a threat to be an almost triple-double each and every night. He's had legendary playoff performances (aka, Game 5 07 ECF @ Detroit). He's an improved one-on-one defender because he knows how to use his body and size to rough up opponents (this is a good thing). He has a league mvp, and is most likely going to repeat as league mvp. He has 2 all-star game MVPs, a trip to the NBA Finals, a ROY, an Olympic Gold, an Olympic Bronze, a scoring title (could very well win his 2nd scoring title this season).

I ADMIRE THE MAN's BASKETBALL ABILITIES...

BUT...




This does not make him "absolutely" the best player in the game today. Although he has a much improved jumpshot, it is still wildly inconsistent. If he has a guy who is really going to put a hand in his face, HE WILL NOT MAKE IT 90% OF THE TIME.

Okay, but he still has a FG% that is 40% higher than Kobe's. His FG% is 50.2%. That is GREAT. Kobe has never had a FG% over 47%... And he is also shooting 3's at 20% better than Kobe.



He misses the intangibles like getting after the ball aggressively on defense (Kobe does this), he lacks the necessary footwork, he still has not developed the great sense of understanding the angles of basketball such as where he can shoot, where he can post up, picking his spots on the floor, effectively using the glass as an aid in making baskets etc.

Really? He does most of those things fine when I watch him. If he did all those things poorly, don't you think his FG% would be lower? 50.2% is VERY good, better than Kobe has ever done. Seems like he is picking where he can shoot and all that pretty damn well... He is also great defensively. It really sounds like you were just saying some of those things in defense of Kobe, but w/e.


He HAS NOT LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE DEFEAT.

Christ... Yeah, we get it, he is a poor sport when he loses. This is because he HATES losing. You don't think he practices even harder when he loses? His stats show that he is trying harder and getting better each season, and you can see it just by watching him.



And what differentiates the two between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James is that the vets in today's game give props to Kobe moreso. The young players, even if they are not on the Lakers, will look to Kobe Bryant for advice. They will work with him over the summer, guys like D-wade have tried to learn some defensive tactics with Kobe, someone always gets something outta work with Kobe Bryant, whether it's an improved individual game the next season, or coming to that new season with a different mindset and mental aggressiveness. The 2007 and 2008 Summers were valuable for most of those young guys.




There will be guys, who used to be on the Lakers, that after leaving, will say "that guy made me a better player".


How do you know LeBron doesn't help his teammates out? Regardless, this doesn't mean anything when you argue who the better player is... LeBron clearly makes his teammates better. 8.5 assists per game? Those are numbers from a great point guard. He is clearly making his teammates better when it matters, in game.



Kobe's experience, work ethic, and his one attribute that he has that NOBODY has in the league today......HIS OBSESSION WITH THE GAME OF BASKETBALL. The fact that he is totally fixated upon the game of basketball. It makes his peers go in awe, and they too wish they had the dedication, the mental strain, and concentration to concentrate on basketball 24/7.

Again, how do you know LeBron isn't like this too. He HATES losing. His stats are improving each year, and they are absolutely disgusting this year. You can't tell me that he isn't absolutely OBSESSED with basketball.



Kobe Bryant can beat your entire team all by himself. He's done it SEVERAL SEVERAL SEVERAL times. And the shots that he can make at the end of games or in the 4th qtr are "heartbreaks". Those types of made baskets that can change the momentum of the game in favor of his team, and those types of made baskets that are "taking your heart out of your chest and stomping on it".


Dude.... LeBron can do the exact same thing. He has been doing it the whole team he has been in the league. Look at the 2006-2007 season. He had a terrible team, and he STILL took them to the playoffs and averaged disgusting stats. Look at Kobe when he had no team around him. He went to the playoffs one of those 3 seasons, and lost in the first round.



Kobe is mentally tougher than LeBron, he's way more fundamentally sound than Lebron (HANDS DOWN!), he understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents, so he is very methodical in how he attacks his opponents offensively, and sees what he can get away with defensively (either playing as a free safety, or going right in the offensive guy's face, depending on the player).


There is so much more I can say, but I'm just damn tired of typing, lol.
And LeBron has much better court vision, does a better job getting his teammates involved, rebounds better, shoots at better percentages....

Basically everything you came up with is arguing that Kobe has better "intangibles", ie, there is no way to measure them. I've noticed a lot of those "unmeasurable" qualities that you seem to believe make Kobe the better player are shared by LeBron too... In the things that CAN be measured, LeBron is clearly the better player...

tredigs
02-25-2010, 09:47 PM
Totally a fair argument. Rather than mentioning the three-peat, lets just compare what they've done since LeBron took the Cavs to the Finals in 2006-2007.

Since the 2006-2007 season:

LeBron has 1 regular season MVP, one scoring title, and one NBA finals appearance.
Bryant has 1 regular season MVP, one scoring title, two NBA finals appearances, one NBA championship, one Finals MVP.

The argument comparing Bryants entire career against LeBrons to justify him as the better player, here and now in 2010 isn't well rounded. But I do think we can compare what they've done in the past three years here (ever since LeBron was good enough to take a team to the finals).

LeBron is playing out of his head, and has had a BETTER regular season thus far than Bryant has. But don't forget that Bryant has been playing with a broken index finger on his shooting hand, and has had other nagging injuries- we can't just completely ignore that fact. Before he broke his finger, Bryant was shooting a career high FG% of 49%- Lebronesque efficiency, and he also led the Lakers to an 8-3 start without Gasol, and with a new to the triangle starting SF.

I think the LeBron people have a fine argument here. But LeBron isn't the 100%, indisputable best player yet- especially when his main competition for the top spot is the reigning finals MVP and champion. Losing with home court advantage in the ECF last year in six games, to a team that the Lakers smashed in five games weeks later doesn't help his argument here either.

What Bryant is trying to say here is this. I don't care if LeBron is better here and now...maybe he is- I'm 31 years old- he's 25, the laws of nature would dictate that hes better RIGHT NOW. Bryants looking at it in the terms of legacy, and he knows that if he gets another ring this year, than LeBron will never catch him.

Also, I think you need to go back and look at the final 4 mintues of the Spain USA gold medal game. LeBron may have been chosen to lead the team, but it was clear who took that game over in the finals minutes.


I'm going to go along with this [with the caveat that while I'd concede that Bryant was playing great basketball before the injuries, you also have to concede that his team that smashed Orlando in 5 was a far better TEAM than Lebron's who lost in 7. Fair?] only for the fact that it's a sound argument (although I don't entirely agree with it) and you are not being openly biased.

I truly couldn't care less who is considered the best, I respect both of their games but am a fan of neither, I just want the argument to be made sans blatant homerism.

My final comment on it is that Lebron IS the better player, but still has a lot of work to do to have the better career. Let's revisit this in a decade? What do you say, PSD? (HAH!)

ko8e24
02-25-2010, 10:32 PM
drose231, I tried to reason with you, but it was of no use :pity:

You just lost an argument.

The TABOO aspect of an argument:


NEVER.....AND I MEAN EVER try to refute EVERY SINGLE POINT of the argument that someone else makes. You just failed in this discussion. You're never supposed to go out of your way to try to refute someone's points/arguments because in that way, you lose credibility. Did you notice that you basically took my entire post, and segmented it in ways you saw fit where you would have the advantage of refuting each point of my argument?


Drose231, you have failed in this discussion :facepalm:

Bruno
02-25-2010, 10:41 PM
You are missing my point, Shaq, Z and Jamison aren't all-stars. Mo is a fringe all-star talent and he made it last year because of injuries and no depth at PG. Now that Rose and Rondo have improved, to go with young PGs like Devin Harris and Jameer Nelson, I would be surprised to see Mo make another all-star team barring multiple injures to the aforementioned.

Shaq is turning 38 years old next month and the Suns dumped him for absolutely nothing.

Z is 34 and having the worst season of his career whether you go by totals, per minute, or efficiency. He hasn't made an all-star team in five years.


If the Cavs win, it's on Lebron, his cast is inferior to multiple teams including but not limited to the Nuggets, Lakers, Mavs, Magic, and Celtics. Every single guy you named is past his prime and no longer all-star quality so it's just dumb for Kobe backers to claim Lebron couldn't win without an all-star supporting cast.

You're not giving Shaq a fair spin. As you mentioned, he's 38 next month, and 82 games plus playoffs is a lot of minutes for the big guy. The Cavs have be letting him coast all season long. He's playing a career low 23.6 minutes per game- two quarters per game! When the Cavs get to the playoffs, his minutes and statistics will increase. He wasn't voted in this year, but he won the all-star game MVP LAST YEAR, and can still play when its important and he gets the minutes. As he will come playoffs.

If you look at Shaqs numbers this year, per 36 minutes it looks like this:
18.5 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.8 bpg, on 57% FG shooting.
I don't know about you, but those are all-star numbers, IMO. You have to consider Shaq with some perspective here, considering his age, his MPG and his regular season role with the Cavs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

I'm not saying Shaq will average 36 minutes per game during the playoffs this year, but he should see about 32 a night, if not in the first round, by the semis and ECF/Finals (when it matters).


Regarding Mo Williams- Yes, Rose and Rondo have passed him. But I think Mo is a better player than Nelson, and is having an equal season to Devin Harris. Statistically he's dominating Nelson this year, and is pretty equal to Harris. Spin it however you'd like- Mo was an all-star last year, and all his teammates were upset that he missed it this year for a reason.

Regarding Jamison- Before you pass him off as old and done for lets recognize that he was averaging 20 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 1 spg, on 45% FG shooting THIS YEAR, for the Wizards- before the trade. Jamison has averaged over 19.6 ppg for six straight seasons, and is a 20-8 guy for his entire career. As much as you want to portray him has being irrelevant, he's not. He has been putting up all-star numbers for years, was an all-star LAST YEAR. The only reason why he wasn't even consider this year was because of how much the Wizards suck. Last season he had a PER of 20.6- for comparisons sake Pau Gasol has a PER of 22.1 THIS YEAR.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamisan01.html

This year, Lamar Odom is averaging 10 ppg, 10 rpg, 3.5 apg, on 45% FG shooting
Artest is averaging 11.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.1 apg, on 42% shooting.

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/o/odomla01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/artesro01.html

Are those really the statistics of "top 40 players"? You try to discredit the Cavs and their "former all-stars", yet you seem to build up the Lakers supporting cast, I don't get that. Lamar Odom has ZERO all-star appearances for his entire career. Ron Artest made the all-star team ONCE, and it was six years ago. Andrew Bynum has never made the all-star team, ever. Pau Gasol is 29 years old, has three all star appearances, only one of which was he able to accomplish before playing along side Bryant for the Lakers.

As much as you downplay it's relevance, the Cavs now have FOUR players on their roster who were all-stars as recently as last year, for the 2008-2009 season. If Jamisons, Mos, and Shaqs all-star appearances last year are irrelevant, fine- but don't try to portray Odom, Artest or Bynum as top 40 players in the process, it's just hypocritical.

drose231
02-25-2010, 10:42 PM
drose231, I tried to reason with you, but it was of no use :pity:

You just lost an argument.

The TABOO aspect of an argument:


NEVER.....AND I MEAN EVER try to refute EVERY SINGLE POINT of the argument that someone else makes. You just failed in this discussion. You're never supposed to go out of your way to try to refute someone's points/arguments because in that way, you lose credibility. Did you notice that you basically took my entire post, and segmented it in ways you saw fit where you would have the advantage of refuting each point of my argument?


Drose231, you have failed in this discussion :facepalm:

You had multiple arguments in your post, so i broke them each up so I could refute each point. Notice how I broke them up in order and didn't leave anything out...

Maybe I'm new to this "debating" thing, but I could have sworn that refuting the other persons points and providing evidencing towards your own is a big part of it, but I guess not. Apparently I refuted "too many" of your points.

ChiSox219
02-25-2010, 10:52 PM
You're not giving Shaq a fair spin. As you mentioned, he's 38 next month, and 82 games plus playoffs is a lot of minutes for the big guy. The Cavs have be letting him coast all season long. He's playing a career low 23.6 minutes per game- two quarters per game! When the Cavs get to the playoffs, his minutes and statistics will increase. He wasn't voted in this year, but he won the all-star game MVP LAST YEAR, and can still play when its important and he gets the minutes. As he will come playoffs.

If you look at Shaqs numbers this year, per 36 minutes it looks like this:
18.5 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.8 bpg, on 57% FG shooting.
I don't know about you, but those are all-star numbers, IMO. You have to consider Shaq with some perspective here, considering his age, his MPG and his regular season role with the Cavs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

I'm not saying Shaq will average 36 minutes per game during the playoffs this year, but he should see about 32 a night, if not in the first round, by the semis and ECF/Finals (when it matters).


Regarding Mo Williams- Yes, Rose and Rondo have passed him. But I think Mo is a better player than Nelson, and is having an equal season to Devin Harris. Statistically he's dominating Nelson this year, and is pretty equal to Harris. Spin it however you'd like- Mo was an all-star last year, and all his teammates were upset that he missed it this year for a reason.

Regarding Jamison- Before you pass him off as old and done for lets recognize that he was averaging 20 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 1 spg, on 45% FG shooting THIS YEAR, for the Wizards- before the trade. Jamison has averaged over 19.6 ppg for six straight seasons, and is a 20-8 guy for his entire career. As much as you want to portray him has being irrelevant, he's not. He has been putting up all-star numbers for years, was an all-star LAST YEAR. The only reason why he wasn't even consider this year was because of how much the Wizards suck. Last season he had a PER of 20.6- for comparisons sake Pau Gasol has a PER of 22.1 THIS YEAR.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamisan01.html

This year, Lamar Odom is averaging 10 ppg, 10 rpg, 3.5 apg, on 45% FG shooting
Artest is averaging 11.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.1 apg, on 42% shooting.

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/o/odomla01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/artesro01.html

Are those really the statistics of "top 40 players"? You try to discredit the Cavs and their "former all-stars", yet you seem to build up the Lakers supporting cast, I don't get that. Lamar Odom has ZERO all-star appearances for his entire career. Ron Artest made the all-star team ONCE, and it was six years ago. Andrew Bynum has never made the all-star team, ever. Pau Gasol is 29 years old, has three all star appearances, only one of which was he able to accomplish before playing along side Bryant for the Lakers.

As much as you downplay it's relevance, the Cavs now have FOUR players on their roster who were all-stars as recently as last year, for the 2008-2009 season. If Jamisons, Mos, and Shaqs all-star appearances last year are irrelevant, fine- but don't try to portray Odom, Artest or Bynum as top 40 players in the process, it's just hypocritical.

What is the point of judging players based on their all-star appearances? You pointed out Odom hasn't been an all-star, yet he plays his role as good as anyone in the league and he's in my top 40 with Gasol and Bynum. Artest isn't quite there, but he's still a very talented player.

I don't think Shaq, Z, Mo, or Jamison suck, but that cast doesn't compare to multiple teams that all have worse records than the Cavs. If you take Kobe off the Lakers they are still a playoff team, the Cavs aren't, even with Jamison.

AI4MVP
02-25-2010, 11:07 PM
can we stop the arguement. lebron james is the best player in the nba. its not even close.

Bruno
02-25-2010, 11:34 PM
What is the point of judging players based on their all-star appearances? You pointed out Odom hasn't been an all-star, yet he plays his role as good as anyone in the league and he's in my top 40 with Gasol and Bynum. Artest isn't quite there, but he's still a very talented player.

I don't think Shaq, Z, Mo, or Jamison suck, but that cast doesn't compare to multiple teams that all have worse records than the Cavs. If you take Kobe off the Lakers they are still a playoff team, the Cavs aren't, even with Jamison.

Seriously? You don't judge a player based on an all-star appearance. The judgement is that they're all stars- thats the judgement, they've been judged as the best at their given position, for their given conference. I'm not arguing total all star appearances matter here, but I'm saying the ones from 2008-2009, from last year absolutely do. Do you not value that? Do you not value the fact that Mo, Jamison and Shaq were voted in by the leagues coaches- not the fans- but by the coaches as being amongst the best, as recently as one year ago?

Odom is not top 40.

The Cavs would make the playoffs with out LeBron. They have one of the better benches in the NBA, one of the top defenses, a former coach of the year and you only have to be .500 to make the playoffs in the East. The Cavs are 45-15 after tonight's game against Boston. LeBron has a win share % of 14.6 for the season. If you do the math, they're sitting in 6th place in front of Chicago, the Bucks and the Heat. Obviously this is really a matter of opinion but the math says they're still in the playoffs in a weak sauce eastern conference.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

JNA17
02-25-2010, 11:37 PM
can we stop the arguement. lebron james is the best player in the nba. its not even close.

how do you expect to end an argument with a statement like that?

still1ballin
02-25-2010, 11:40 PM
There is too much to read here.

That is all

Stay_Swim
02-25-2010, 11:42 PM
This is not a question. Kobe Bryant is the best player. He's got four rings on his hands. He showed it last year. He's should it this year with his countless game winners.(one which I was at vs Milwaukee). Even in the Olympics he showed his superiority over Lebron. Kobe is now. A couple of years from now... Possibly Lebron. Right now though I would take D-Wade. But that's just because I watched him at Marquette. And he has a ring.

1.)Kobe Bryant
2.)Dwayne Wade
Very Close 3.) Lebron James
.
.
.
.
4.) Andrew Bogut...lol JK.

Bruno
02-25-2010, 11:51 PM
This is not a question. Kobe Bryant is the best player. He's got four rings on his hands. He showed it last year. He's should it this year with his countless game winners.(one which I was at vs Milwaukee). Even in the Olympics he showed his superiority over Lebron. Kobe is now. A couple of years from now... Possibly Lebron. Right now though I would take D-Wade. But that's just because I watched him at Marquette. And he has a ring.

1.)Kobe Bryant
2.)Dwayne Wade
Very Close 3.) Lebron James
.
.
.
.
4.) Andrew Bogut...lol JK.

No, it is a question, probably the biggest question of the year, outside of who will win the title. It is very close, and both sides have totally legitimate arguments. You must have not been watching much Wade this season, he isn't even top three for the year IMO. It is without question between Bryant and James- Wade has dropped off. It might be for mental reasons with the upcoming free agency, but the reason for the drop off jsut doesn't matter.

ChiSox219
02-25-2010, 11:52 PM
Seriously? You don't judge a player based on an all-star appearance. The judgement is that they're all stars- thats the judgement, they've been judged as the best at their given position, for their given conference. I'm not arguing total all star appearances matter here, but I'm saying the ones from 2008-2009, from last year absolutely do. Do you not value that? Do you not value the fact that Mo, Jamison and Shaq were voted in by the leagues coaches- not the fans- but by the coaches as being amongst the best, as recently as one year ago?

Odom is not top 40.

The Cavs would make the playoffs with out LeBron. They have one of the better benches in the NBA, one of the top defenses, a former coach of the year and you only have to be .500 to make the playoffs in the East. The Cavs are 45-15 after tonight's game against Boston. LeBron has a win share % of 14.6 for the season. If you do the math, they're sitting in 6th place in front of Chicago, the Bucks and the Heat. Obviously this is really a matter of opinion but the math says they're still in the playoffs in a weak sauce eastern conference.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

No, I don't put much value in all-star appearances, they mean something but not much. David Lee was an all-star this year, while Josh Smith was not. Kaman got in over Nene.

I'm not gonna sweat Win Shares, it's an estimate based only on box score stats. But I will concede that the Cavs could make the playoffs with Jamison, considering how week the second tier of the East is.

You might not consider Odom top 40, and if you are a Lakers fan I guess I won't be able to convince you otherwise. Given how he played once Kobe went down, I'm left with even less doubt that Odom is a great player.

natelpete
02-26-2010, 12:01 AM
Lebron is the better player.. The only thing rings determine is who has the better team.

RaysFan
02-26-2010, 12:13 AM
Aite man, here it goes:


We've witnessed the speed, agility, size, and force of the physical specimen that is LeBron James. There is no one, in the history of the National Basketball Association who has had the combination of skills, attributes, and the physicality that this guy has. He is a one of a kind player. There has been no one like him. He is perhaps the best finisher around the basket in the game today. He is like a freight train in transition that is almost unstoppable. He has an improving jumpshot and a very very good 3 pt FG%. He is a rebounding force at 6.5-8 a game, he's a willing passer at 7-8 assists a game, he is the best in catching up to someone on the fast break and blocking their shot. He has hit a few clutch shots the last 2 seasons in the regular season and playoffs. He's a threat to be an almost triple-double each and every night. He's had legendary playoff performances (aka, Game 5 07 ECF @ Detroit). He's an improved one-on-one defender because he knows how to use his body and size to rough up opponents (this is a good thing). He has a league mvp, and is most likely going to repeat as league mvp. He has 2 all-star game MVPs, a trip to the NBA Finals, a ROY, an Olympic Gold, an Olympic Bronze, a scoring title (could very well win his 2nd scoring title this season).

I ADMIRE THE MAN's BASKETBALL ABILITIES...

BUT...



This does not make him "absolutely" the best player in the game today. Although he has a much improved jumpshot, it is still wildly inconsistent. If he has a guy who is really going to put a hand in his face, HE WILL NOT MAKE IT 90% OF THE TIME. He misses the intangibles like getting after the ball aggressively on defense (Kobe does this), he lacks the necessary footwork, he still has not developed the great sense of understanding the angles of basketball such as where he can shoot, where he can post up, picking his spots on the floor, effectively using the glass as an aid in making baskets etc. He HAS NOT LEARNED HOW TO HANDLE DEFEAT.

And what differentiates the two between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James is that the vets in today's game give props to Kobe moreso. The young players, even if they are not on the Lakers, will look to Kobe Bryant for advice. They will work with him over the summer, guys like D-wade have tried to learn some defensive tactics with Kobe, someone always gets something outta work with Kobe Bryant, whether it's an improved individual game the next season, or coming to that new season with a different mindset and mental aggressiveness. The 2007 and 2008 Summers were valuable for most of those young guys.



There will be guys, who used to be on the Lakers, that after leaving, will say "that guy made me a better player". Kobe's experience, work ethic, and his one attribute that he has that NOBODY has in the league today......HIS OBSESSION WITH THE GAME OF BASKETBALL. The fact that he is totally fixated upon the game of basketball. It makes his peers go in awe, and they too wish they had the dedication, the mental strain, and concentration to concentrate on basketball 24/7.


Kobe Bryant can beat your entire team all by himself. He's done it SEVERAL SEVERAL SEVERAL times. And the shots that he can make at the end of games or in the 4th qtr are "heartbreaks". Those types of made baskets that can change the momentum of the game in favor of his team, and those types of made baskets that are "taking your heart out of your chest and stomping on it".



Kobe is mentally tougher than LeBron, he's way more fundamentally sound than Lebron (HANDS DOWN!), he understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents, so he is very methodical in how he attacks his opponents offensively, and sees what he can get away with defensively (either playing as a free safety, or going right in the offensive guy's face, depending on the player).


There is so much more I can say, but I'm just damn tired of typing, lol.

There are many things that Kobe does better than LeBron. There is no question about it. Kobe is an amazing player and at 31 he is still in his prime..even if it is at the tail-end of it.

The problem I have with your explanation of why Kobe is better is that it really isn't based on anything tangible. It is almost like you concede that by every way you can evaluate a player right now, LeBron is better...but you still say Kobe is better based on just random statements that you can't really prove or dis-prove. I will sum up your arguments like this, and correct me if I'm wrong....

Kobe is the better player because...

-He handles defeat better
-If a guy is guarding LeBron, he is just a 10% jump-shooter (wildly in-accurate, btw..but whatever)
-LeBron doesn't understand angles
-Vets give Kobe props
-Young guys ask for his advice
-He is obsessed with basketball
-Kobe makes more "rip your heart out" shots
-Kobe understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents better

I understand what you are trying to do, but almost your entire argument is based on stuff you really can't evaluate. I do believe that Kobe is a more fundamentally sound player. He has better foot-work, a better pure jumper, and his 1 on 1 defense might still be better. It is hard to judge because Kobe isn't asked to guard the other team's best player and neither is LeBron.

Here could be the case for LeBron James...

-Averages more points
-Averages more assists
-Averages more rebounds
-Shoots a higher percentage from the field
-Shoots a higher percentage from 3
-Has a better +/-
-Has the highest PER in the HISTORY of basketball (trumping Jordan's best year)
-He is among the Top-5 in most Defensive Player of the Year voting
-His "PG stretch" when Mo went down was amazing....where he averaged something like 12 assists per game for a full month
-He kept his team humming with the best record in the league regardless of who went down with an injury
-Cleveland is so heavily reliant on LeBron compared to LA with Kobe

I just think LeBron has taken over as the best player in the game.

AI4MVP
02-26-2010, 12:22 AM
guys lebron is a better player. you keep bringing up his rings. please tell me that if u put lebron right now in kobes shoes during the lakers three peat that the lakers still would not have won those champiosnhips, and prolly more?? ill give kobe all the credit for last years. thats full credit for one year doing something that lebron couldnt if he was placed in his shoes, but i guarantee you that lebron will have more finals mvps then kobes when its all said and done

you lakers fans arguements dont make any snse becuz kobe has played more years and has had a chance to do more becuz of the fact that hes played since 1996. lebrons played since 2003. lebron is the better player. lebron james is the best basketball player in the world, and quite possibly can deveolp into the best of all time. it has nothing to do with kobe, and i know its not as fun saying that u have the second best player in the world rather then saying u have the best player in the world, but its a fact.. lebron james is a bette basketball player then kobe bryant

Squad13
02-26-2010, 12:26 AM
Here's how I feel

1. LeBron is better than Kobe right now and it's not even an argument, Kobe has the one of the best supporting casts in the league (which started 4-0 without him) and they still have a worse record than Cleveland.

2. Being a Lakers fan is a gay cult, hopefully someone spikes the Kool-Aid.

Denver fans, as intelligent as they get :rolleyes: .

Squad13
02-26-2010, 12:29 AM
Odom is not a top 40 player, he is wildly inconsistent. Lebron clearly has better stats, but you have to take into account the Cavs system, Lebron touches the ball and initiates the offense every play. When you touch the ball that much of course you will have higher assist numbers(not taking anything away from his passing ability, he is a very good passer) More rebounds with his size and position its to be expected. If I wasn't leaving I'd write up why I give the edge to Kobe , I will later

cmellofan15
02-26-2010, 12:31 AM
There are many things that Kobe does better than LeBron. There is no question about it. Kobe is an amazing player and at 31 he is still in his prime..even if it is at the tail-end of it.

The problem I have with your explanation of why Kobe is better is that it really isn't based on anything tangible. It is almost like you concede that by every way you can evaluate a player right now, LeBron is better...but you still say Kobe is better based on just random statements that you can't really prove or dis-prove. I will sum up your arguments like this, and correct me if I'm wrong....

Kobe is the better player because...

-He handles defeat better
-If a guy is guarding LeBron, he is just a 10% jump-shooter (wildly in-accurate, btw..but whatever)
-LeBron doesn't understand angles
-Vets give Kobe props
-Young guys ask for his advice
-He is obsessed with basketball
-Kobe makes more "rip your heart out" shots
-Kobe understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents better

I understand what you are trying to do, but almost your entire argument is based on stuff you really can't evaluate. I do believe that Kobe is a more fundamentally sound player. He has better foot-work, a better pure jumper, and his 1 on 1 defense might still be better. It is hard to judge because Kobe isn't asked to guard the other team's best player and neither is LeBron.

Here could be the case for LeBron James...

-Averages more points
-Averages more assists
-Averages more rebounds
-Shoots a higher percentage from the field
-Shoots a higher percentage from 3
-Has a better +/-
-Has the highest PER in the HISTORY of basketball (trumping Jordan's best year)
-He is among the Top-5 in most Defensive Player of the Year voting
-His "PG stretch" when Mo went down was amazing....where he averaged something like 12 assists per game for a full month
-He kept his team humming with the best record in the league regardless of who went down with an injury
-Cleveland is so heavily reliant on LeBron compared to LA with Kobe

I just think LeBron has taken over as the best player in the game.

the stuff I bolded made no sense at all. that could make you a nicer or kinder person but not a better player

Squad13
02-26-2010, 12:32 AM
can we stop the arguement. lebron james is the best player in the nba. its not even close.

:rolleyes: I can see someone saying he is better, although I don't agree , but to say its not close? child please

cmellofan15
02-26-2010, 12:37 AM
Denver fans, as intelligent as they get :rolleyes: .

speaking of Denver...“they beat the hell out of us” - Kobe Bryant speaking on the Nov. 13 loss to the Nuggets.

sick sig though.

ko8e24
02-26-2010, 12:41 AM
There are many things that Kobe does better than LeBron. There is no question about it. Kobe is an amazing player and at 31 he is still in his prime..even if it is at the tail-end of it.

The problem I have with your explanation of why Kobe is better is that it really isn't based on anything tangible. It is almost like you concede that by every way you can evaluate a player right now, LeBron is better...but you still say Kobe is better based on just random statements that you can't really prove or dis-prove. I will sum up your arguments like this, and correct me if I'm wrong....

Kobe is the better player because...

-He handles defeat better
-If a guy is guarding LeBron, he is just a 10% jump-shooter (wildly in-accurate, btw..but whatever)
-LeBron doesn't understand angles
-Vets give Kobe props
-Young guys ask for his advice
-He is obsessed with basketball
-Kobe makes more "rip your heart out" shots
-Kobe understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents better

I understand what you are trying to do, but almost your entire argument is based on stuff you really can't evaluate. I do believe that Kobe is a more fundamentally sound player. He has better foot-work, a better pure jumper, and his 1 on 1 defense might still be better. It is hard to judge because Kobe isn't asked to guard the other team's best player and neither is LeBron.

Here could be the case for LeBron James...

-Averages more points
-Averages more assists
-Averages more rebounds
-Shoots a higher percentage from the field
-Shoots a higher percentage from 3
-Has a better +/-
-Has the highest PER in the HISTORY of basketball (trumping Jordan's best year)
-He is among the Top-5 in most Defensive Player of the Year voting
-His "PG stretch" when Mo went down was amazing....where he averaged something like 12 assists per game for a full month
-He kept his team humming with the best record in the league regardless of who went down with an injury
-Cleveland is so heavily reliant on LeBron compared to LA with Kobe

I just think LeBron has taken over as the best player in the game.



Now that is something to revel about. yes, he was excellent in mo's absence. I give him 100% props for that :clap:

And I respect your opinions. As I've actually said here on PSD, it is cool if LeBron is regarded as the best playa, but Kobe is the ultimate warrior and winner, and he's the guy I want on my team. HE IS THE GUY....the champion, and there is only one thing on Mamba's mind...

THE DRIVE FOR FIVE!

TheKing23
02-26-2010, 12:42 AM
There are many things that Kobe does better than LeBron. There is no question about it. Kobe is an amazing player and at 31 he is still in his prime..even if it is at the tail-end of it.

The problem I have with your explanation of why Kobe is better is that it really isn't based on anything tangible. It is almost like you concede that by every way you can evaluate a player right now, LeBron is better...but you still say Kobe is better based on just random statements that you can't really prove or dis-prove. I will sum up your arguments like this, and correct me if I'm wrong....

Kobe is the better player because...

-He handles defeat better
-If a guy is guarding LeBron, he is just a 10% jump-shooter (wildly in-accurate, btw..but whatever)
-LeBron doesn't understand angles
-Vets give Kobe props
-Young guys ask for his advice
-He is obsessed with basketball
-Kobe makes more "rip your heart out" shots
-Kobe understands the strengths and weaknesses of his opponents better

I understand what you are trying to do, but almost your entire argument is based on stuff you really can't evaluate. I do believe that Kobe is a more fundamentally sound player. He has better foot-work, a better pure jumper, and his 1 on 1 defense might still be better. It is hard to judge because Kobe isn't asked to guard the other team's best player and neither is LeBron.

Here could be the case for LeBron James...

-Averages more points
-Averages more assists
-Averages more rebounds
-Shoots a higher percentage from the field
-Shoots a higher percentage from 3
-Has a better +/-
-Has the highest PER in the HISTORY of basketball (trumping Jordan's best year)
-He is among the Top-5 in most Defensive Player of the Year voting
-His "PG stretch" when Mo went down was amazing....where he averaged something like 12 assists per game for a full month
-He kept his team humming with the best record in the league regardless of who went down with an injury
-Cleveland is so heavily reliant on LeBron compared to LA with Kobe

I just think LeBron has taken over as the best player in the game.

:clap::clap::clap:

Great post.

drose231
02-26-2010, 12:44 AM
Now that is something to revel about. yes, he was excellent in mo's absence. I give him 100% props for that :clap:

And I respect your opinions. As I've actually said here on PSD, it is cool if LeBron is regarded as the best playa, but Kobe is the ultimate warrior and winner, and he's the guy I want on my team. HE IS THE GUY....the champion, and there is only one thing on Mamba's mind...

THE DRIVE FOR FIVE!

Funny, i said that EXACT same thing as him. All you brought up was intangibles, things that can't be measured. LeBron is better in all tangible things, yet you just replied with a facepalm. You are a freaking moron kid.

ARMIN12NBA
02-26-2010, 12:47 AM
Kobe Bryant: You know, honestly, it's tough for me to answer that, from the simple standpoint that we're asked to do 2 different things. So I think a lot of people look at it from the outside, they can look at numbers, they can look at this, they can look at that. But the systems that we're in are different, our responsibilities are different, and ultimately to me, it's who has more rings at the end of the day. So when his career is all said and done, when my career is all said and done...

^ This. It is very difficult to compare players who play different positions in different systems. If they were in the same system, then it is possible, but the variables are staggering.

_KB24_
02-26-2010, 12:49 AM
Here's how I feel

1. LeBron is better than Kobe right now and it's not even an argument, Kobe has the one of the best supporting casts in the league (which started 4-0 without him) and they still have a worse record than Cleveland.

2. Being a Lakers fan is a gay cult, hopefully someone spikes the Kool-Aid.

No need to be bitter.

ko8e24
02-26-2010, 12:54 AM
Funny, i said that EXACT same thing as him. All you brought up was intangibles, things that can't be measured. LeBron is better in all tangible things, yet you just replied with a facepalm. You are a freaking moron kid.

Maybe it's just that you're not a likeable poster :rolleyes:


You did kinda create a crappy reputation for yourself from the get go with those ridiculous threads.

drose231
02-26-2010, 12:58 AM
Maybe it's just that you're not a likeable poster :rolleyes:


You did kinda create a crappy reputation for yourself from the get go with those ridiculous threads.

That's all you have? So you stopped debating because of my "internet rep~"? That's a pretty obvious sign that I won the debate. I am clearly more knowledgeable than you when it comes to basketball.

ko8e24
02-26-2010, 01:03 AM
That's all you have? So you stopped debating because of my "internet rep~"? That's a pretty obvious sign that I won the debate. I am clearly more knowledgeable than you when it comes to basketball.

:laugh2:

Just joking bro. Don't take my comments like that too seriously. Enjoy your time here on PSD. We're all here to contribute to good basketball talk.

And btw, I looked at your post again, and I am going to admit that I agree with some of your points.

And you may be more knowledgeable them, or you may not. I dunno, but I'm gonna act cool with you man. It's all good talk from here on out.

RapOZo
02-26-2010, 02:14 AM
right now statically lebron is better player, kobe is a dominant scorer specially down the stretch, but overall you have to go for lebrons stats right now, screw those rings, we are talking about best player, not most wins player nor best player in best team.
best player, lebron
my favorite player Kobe, just love that swag!