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GodsSon
02-23-2010, 02:28 PM
I just finished watching SonicsGate for the first time, and must say I was really impressed with how it was all put together...with that said, it just really broadened what I had already taken note of...This is the man who during his tenure as commish has...

1) Overseen the relocation of 4 teams (Kings, Grizzlies, Hornets and Sonics)

2) Been at the centre of numerous draft lottery conspiracy theories beginning in 85 with the Ewing to NYK theory

3) Already has one lockout under his belt in the 98-99 season, alienating numerous fans, and is potentially poised for another to kick off the 2011 season

4) Been faced with the refereeing scandal and Tim Donaghy, who claimed that the NBA openly tells its refs to favour certain teams with marquee players and generally in bigger markets that will increase television ratings

If i'm forgetting anything feel free to add to the list, however, has he ruined the league in his tenure?

BaustinSali08
02-23-2010, 02:31 PM
Didn't equally punish both teams in the Detroit/Pacer brawl, I felt Detroit got off fairly clean, and the Pacers (Yeah it was Artest's fault) are still trying to rebuild from that.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 02:42 PM
Didn't equally punish both teams in the Detroit/Pacer brawl, I felt Detroit got off fairly clean, and the Pacers (Yeah it was Artest's fault) are still trying to rebuild from that.

They pretty much jumped on an opportunity to punish Artest (and the Pacers as a result) due to his reputation...I mean, I realize jumping into the stands to fight with fans is wrong, but do these guys expect athletes to be held at a higher standard than your average person because they make more money? If someone tosses a beer in my face as im walking down the street, they're getting knocked out by any means necessary lol

joshtrem
02-23-2010, 02:44 PM
he turned the game into more of an entertainment event rather than a sport.

Bob_at_york
02-23-2010, 02:45 PM
If i'm forgetting anything feel free to add to the list, however, has he ruined the league in his tenure?
But hasn't the league also grown a lot over his tenure? It might not be what it was 10 years ago but the game has grown globally and I think the sport is better than it was 30 years ago.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 02:48 PM
But hasn't the league also grown a lot over his tenure? It might not be what it was 10 years ago but the game has grown globally and I think the sport is better than it was 30 years ago.

I will give him that, yes...but do you think the good outweighs the bad? I don't think it does...Is it better? that's arguable, especially when you have people like Jerry West and Charles Barkley stating that contraction of teams would actually improve the NBA since talent is watered down; it has definitely increased in popularity though due to efforts to globalize

Bob_at_york
02-23-2010, 02:52 PM
I will give him that, yes...but do you think the good outweighs the bad? I don't think it does...Is it better? that's arguable, especially when you have people like Jerry West and Charles Barkley stating that contraction of teams would actually improve the NBA since talent is watered down; it has definitely increased in popularity though due to efforts to globalize

You can say that about any league? Contraction would improve the talent of any league. I don't know if the bad outweights the good. I honestly don't but the guy has had the position for over 25 years, I am sure he will screw up a number of times over a 25-year career. Hell I could screw up at my job more than once a week. Nobody is perfect and sometimes you have to make hard choices.

Bucsfan
02-23-2010, 02:58 PM
he turned the game into more of an entertainment event rather than a sport.

x2...even though it is supposed to be entertainment, i get what you mean by that


another thing...at least imo that is ruining the league is the media, its always lebron this...wade that....they are awesome and all, but i dont like hearing the same crap all the time, and the "hip hop" influence on the game has ruined it for me...im surprised they dont have rapping contests at halftime

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 03:02 PM
x2...even though it is supposed to be entertainment, i get what you mean by that


another thing...at least imo that is ruining the league is the media, its always lebron this...wade that....they are awesome and all, but i dont like hearing the same crap all the time, and the "hip hop" influence on the game has ruined it for me...im surprised they dont have rapping contests at halftime

LOL I don't think it's that bad

JordanPippen
02-23-2010, 03:03 PM
stern has done a fantastic job thus far. you guys have to realize no one is perfect. When we nitpick at shortcomings of a man who's been working for the game for the past 30 years, of course anybody can come up with a list of faults. I'm surprised the original list of faults from the OP didn't exceed 10. Compare the progress the NBA has made over other major 4 sports in America the past 30 years, and I think we have one of the top commissioners.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 03:05 PM
You can say that about any league? Contraction would improve the talent of any league. I don't know if the bad outweights the good. I honestly don't but the guy has had the position for over 25 years, I am sure he will screw up a number of times over a 25-year career. Hell I could screw up at my job more than once a week. Nobody is perfect and sometimes you have to make hard choices.

I think 2 through 4 on my initial list are really big screw ups though, with the refereeing scandal being really severe...also, anytime you alienate your fan-base (who are responsible for all of these men even having jobs), by having a lockout occur potentially two times in just over a decade does not bode well for your legacy

abe_froman
02-23-2010, 03:07 PM
I just finished watching SonicsGate for the first time, and must say I was really impressed with how it was all put together...with that said, it just really broadened what I had already taken note of...This is the man who during his tenure as commish has...

1) Overseen the relocation of 4 teams (Kings, Grizzlies, Hornets and Sonics)

2) Been at the centre of numerous draft lottery conspiracy theories beginning in 85 with the Ewing to NYK theory

3) Already has one lockout under his belt in the 98-99 season, alienating numerous fans, and is potentially poised for another to kick off the 2011 season

4) Been faced with the refereeing scandal and Tim Donaghy, who claimed that the NBA openly tells its refs to favour certain teams with marquee players and generally in bigger markets that will increase television ratings

If i'm forgetting anything feel free to add to the list, however, has he ruined the league in his tenure?
1.sucks for those fanbases,but doubt the fans/cities they relocated to would agree with you that its a bad thing
2.besides 85 is there even another one?
3 and 4 wont argue,except for 4.i like how your skeptical of everyone else..but he, your good not questioning

ko8e24
02-23-2010, 03:07 PM
I would say that David Stern = Vince McMahon

Vince McMahon turned the WWE/WWF from a (yes 'fake') but good wrestling matches into ******** entertainment that makes no sense whatsoever.


David Stern has turned the NBA from a hard-nosed defensive-oriented star-studded league to a star-studded league with circus acts and throwing powders and phototaking and bowling pinballs, ESPN-like crap.

MaHaRaJaH
02-23-2010, 03:09 PM
You can say that about any league? Contraction would improve the talent of any league. I don't know if the bad outweights the good. I honestly don't but the guy has had the position for over 25 years, I am sure he will screw up a number of times over a 25-year career. Hell I could screw up at my job more than once a week. Nobody is perfect and sometimes you have to make hard choices.

But were the hard choices for the sake of the league or himself? Huge industry in sports gambling.

MaHaRaJaH
02-23-2010, 03:10 PM
I would say that David Stern = Vince McMahon

Vince McMahon turned the WWE/WWF from a (yes 'fake') but good wrestling matches into ******** entertainment that makes no sense whatsoever.


David Stern has turned the NBA from a hard-nosed defensive-oriented star-studded league to a star-studded league with circus acts and throwing powders and phototaking and bowling pinballs, ESPN-like crap.
One thing they both have in common is that they are simply selling Entertainment.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 03:11 PM
1.sucks for those fanbases,but doubt the fans/cities they relocated to would agree with you that its a bad thing
2.besides 85 is there even another one?
3 and 4 wont argue,except for 4.i like how your skeptical of everyone else..but he, your good not questioning

I can think of two in the past decade...03 with LeBron to Cleveland and 08 with Rose to Chicago

Draco
02-23-2010, 03:12 PM
But hasn't the league also grown a lot over his tenure?

Exactly.. another thing to add to this list is allowing Canada to have an NBA team. :pity:












Kidding. :p

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 03:17 PM
Exactly.. another thing to add to this list is allowing Canada to have an NBA team. :pity:


lol and yet they still took one away after what? 6 years? pathetic

Supa
02-23-2010, 03:33 PM
I guess even if you're the best at what you do, people can still find ways to criticize you.

---

29$JerZ
02-23-2010, 03:43 PM
I don't think so, if anything he has helped market Basketball on to a global scale.
As for actually ruining the game I haven't seen him done anything that resembles what Roger is doing in the NFL or all the criticism Selig has over the lack of stopping/finding out about steroid use in the MLB.

Could be worse.

NBA isn't a defensive oriented sport any more unfortunately but it's like what rap is today. Started off good, had its golden years and now appeals to a bigger crowd but the feel of the what Basketball is really about is gone a la rap.

Tony_Starks
02-23-2010, 03:57 PM
No way. Stern deserves alot of credit. He has helped turn the NBA global. He has made some unpopular moves playerwise but I can say from a pure business perspective that he is the best commissioner in all of sports.

Even the dress code that he imposed... From the hiphop generation which Im from and most of the players are from it was viewed as Stern just trying to force the players to do what he wanted them to do and limiting their freedom...

.... From a business perspective it was the right thing to do. The young kids that identify with that culture don't buy the tickets, their parents do. So that was still the right move. At the same time it allows the players to be more marketable. Its a win win, even if we dont like it.

Even in the Arenas situation some people were screaming for lifetime ban while others like me were saying 20 games and get off his back. He got it right with rest of the year suspension.

td0tsfinest
02-23-2010, 04:19 PM
He's done a great job in increasing the popularity of the game. By marketing individual players in the league, nba players are becoming more and more recognizable all over the world.

As for all the negative stuff, a lot of it just controversy but at the end of the day I think David Stern has done a much better job than any of the other GM's of the big 4 american sports.

Bob_at_york
02-23-2010, 04:41 PM
As for all the negative stuff, a lot of it just controversy but at the end of the day I think David Stern has done a much better job than any of the other GM's of the big 4 american sports.
That brings up a good point about the whole labour issue. Baseball lost a world series, the NHL lost a FULL SEASON, basketball lost a couple of months but they came back and had playoffs and everything.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 04:56 PM
That brings up a good point about the whole labour issue. Baseball lost a world series, the NHL lost a FULL SEASON, basketball lost a couple of months but they came back and had playoffs and everything.

Ya but the NHL and MLB have also become complete jokes under the direction of Bettman and Selig

knickerbockerny
02-23-2010, 05:10 PM
I would say that David Stern = Vince McMahon

Vince McMahon turned the WWE/WWF from a (yes 'fake') but good wrestling matches into ******** entertainment that makes no sense whatsoever.


David Stern has turned the NBA from a hard-nosed defensive-oriented star-studded league to a star-studded league with circus acts and throwing powders and phototaking and bowling pinballs, ESPN-like crap.

Lol at everything you stated, but everything you stated is true.

Now Stern has widened the appeal of basketball overseas, but at the same time he has lost a lot of viewers in the USA. It has gotten to the point where there is the NFL, College Football, College Basketball, then coming in 4th is the NBA, with MLB not far behind them. Your average sports fan would watch an NFL game, College Football and Basketball game before an NBA game.

I don't think the NBA is marketing there players well enough. I honestly feel the only teams that get promoted are the Lakers, Magic, Cavs, Nuggets, Celtics and Mavericks. What about the other 20+ teams. Kevin Durrant and Derrick Rose are up coming stars and are barely nationally televised.

The NBA needs to have more games on basic televison, ABC. Stop shying away from viewer competition and place entertaining triple headers on Saturdays and Sundays like the used to do, with NBA on NBC. Have a marquee tuesday night everyweek setting it up like Monday Night Football.

There are enough stars in the league, and just about every major city has a winning team except for NY, so the league should not be suffering.

Another thing is that the NBA has to get rid of guareenteed contracts, that could potentially become an albetross to a team. Having a salary cap and guareenteed contracts don't mix.

GspLAL
02-23-2010, 05:19 PM
They pretty much jumped on an opportunity to punish Artest (and the Pacers as a result) due to his reputation...I mean, I realize jumping into the stands to fight with fans is wrong, but do these guys expect athletes to be held at a higher standard than your average person because they make more money? If someone tosses a beer in my face as im walking down the street, they're getting knocked out by any means necessary lol

Of course, millions of people watch these guys play and expect them to be role models for kids.

wileyisTOFU
02-23-2010, 05:19 PM
I thought he saved the NBA

pebloemer
02-23-2010, 05:22 PM
Ya but the NHL and MLB have also become complete jokes under the direction of Bettman and Selig

I can agree with Selig comments, but how has NHL become a complete joke under Bettman? The lockout was a disaster, but IMO necessary - I think more onus is on the players for that one. And the result of the lockout has been quite encouraging from my perspective.

Stern has done quite well with the challenges that have confronted him.

Chronz
02-23-2010, 05:22 PM
Best commish in all of sports, I dont buy into conspiracy theories. Well except for Ewing but that was great for the league. The Lockouts werent his fault, players and owners share the blame. I cant wait for the lockout, I hope the owners dont budge until the players get off their high horse.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 05:25 PM
I can agree with Selig comments, but how has NHL become a complete joke under Bettman? The lockout was a disaster, but IMO necessary - I think more onus is on the players for that one. And the result of the lockout has been quite encouraging from my perspective.

Stern has done quite well with the challenges that have confronted him.

Force-feeding hockey into sun-belt markets that have no desire to want to watch it, and after they fail, him refusing to admit his mistake and remedy it by giving teams with fanbases who would support them...implementing stricter penalties to increase scoring in order to appeal to the broader American audience; as well as including shootouts, adding the trapezoid behind the net, and removing any semblance of potential ties to apparently make the game more "exciting"...not to mention they still might increase the size of nets, even after reducing the size of goalie equipment...the NHL is a shell of its former self, and not for the better

pebloemer
02-23-2010, 05:25 PM
Best commish in all of sports, I dont buy into conspiracy theories. Well except for Ewing but that was great for the league. The Lockouts werent his fault, players and owners share the blame. I cant wait for the lockout, I hope the owners dont budge until the players get off their high horse.

I'll miss the basketball, but it will be worth it if the owners remain steadfast.

Chronz
02-23-2010, 05:31 PM
Yea they better not budge this time, I like what Cuban had to say, owners lose some money from a lockout, players lose ALL their money.

valade16
02-23-2010, 05:32 PM
Best commish in all of sports, I dont buy into conspiracy theories. Well except for Ewing but that was great for the league.

So it's all good to cheat so long as the league benefits right? :rolleyes:

It makes me start to wonder why the ref gave my home team Blazers (specifically Wallace) a Technical for looking at him in the 1999-2000 WCF game 7, which we somehow lost up 13 in the 4th...

It also makes me start to not want to be a fan of the NBA because my Blazers aren't a "big market" and therefore probably won't get any favors from the league, where as the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics, etc. will.

If he did that, he's the worst Commish in sports. I'd rather have a league that doesn't make any money than a multi-billion dollar enterprise that destroys the integrity of the game.

pebloemer
02-23-2010, 05:33 PM
Force-feeding hockey into sun-belt markets that have no desire to want to watch it, and after they fail, him refusing to admit his mistake and remedy it by giving teams with fanbases who would support them...implementing stricter penalties to increase scoring in order to appeal to the broader American audience; as well as including shootouts, adding the trapezoid behind the net, and removing any semblance of potential ties...the NHL is a shell of its former self, and not for the better

That is subjective. Definitely a matter of perspective.

The NHL has enacted the goal to sell the game of hockey across the United States. It is a lofty goal and will not succeed everywhere, but the only way to know for sure is to continue to try. You can't sell a sport in a short time period, I admire Bettman for remaining consistent with his goals. Even if places like Phoenix don't pan out in the long-run, the league is bound to have misses. But selling the game across the United States would be huge for the popularity and wealth of the game.

Stricter penalties to increase scoring has been a positive change from me watching. I think the league is right to reward the fast, more skilled players by allowed them room to skate. Just because the players haven't all adjusted to that yet, causing more penalties doesn't mean it is a bad decision.

How are no more ties, the shootout and the trapezoid inherently "bad" changes? I don't like the trapezoid myself, but others I like.

Some positives all throw at you are the hard cap and the ability of smaller markets to compete to the teams with money.

Chronz
02-23-2010, 05:36 PM
So it's all good to cheat so long as the league benefits right? :rolleyes:

It makes me start to wonder why the ref gave my home team Blazers (specifically Wallace) a Technical for looking at him in the 1999-2000 WCF game 7, which we somehow lost up 13 in the 4th...

It also makes me start to not want to be a fan of the NBA because my Blazers aren't a "big market" and therefore probably won't get any favors from the league, where as the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics, etc. will.

If he did that, he's the worst Commish in sports. I'd rather have a league that doesn't make any money than a multi-billion dollar enterprise that destroys the integrity of the game.
You cant rig the actual games bro, and you dont erase a 14 PT deficit because of a technical. I never worry about the outcome being decided by refs. Even in the most extreme examples (The Kings series/Bucks vs Philly) the underdog had a chance to take the series.

Also didnt the Blazers win the lottery despite already being a team on the rise, sounds like a fair shake to me. If I were a Blazers fan Id love the NBA right now.

abe_froman
02-23-2010, 05:41 PM
It also makes me start to not want to be a fan of the NBA because my Blazers aren't a "big market" and therefore probably won't get any favors from the league, where as the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics, etc. will.


yes exactly because the blazer were shafted over the odds on favorites,the celtics, for the number 1 pick in 07:rolleyes:
yup your right,stern sure showed his bias towards boston and against potland there

my favorite conspiracy is how he rigs the draft for ny,by them getting the number 1 pick only once during his entire tenure...i mean you'd think if he wanted to rig it to favor ny,they'd end up with alot more number 1 selections(or at least near top of the order)

Bucsfan
02-23-2010, 05:42 PM
So it's all good to cheat so long as the league benefits right? :rolleyes:

It makes me start to wonder why the ref gave my home team Blazers (specifically Wallace) a Technical for looking at him in the 1999-2000 WCF game 7, which we somehow lost up 13 in the 4th...

It also makes me start to not want to be a fan of the NBA because my Blazers aren't a "big market" and therefore probably won't get any favors from the league, where as the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics, etc. will.

If he did that, he's the worst Commish in sports. I'd rather have a league that doesn't make any money than a multi-billion dollar enterprise that destroys the integrity of the game.

yeah i agree, Utah is the same way, actually the entire NW division (one of if not the best in the league) never get much attention, denver is getting more obviously, but still not what it should be for a division that has deron williams, carmelo, brandon roy, big al and kevin durant in it

I dont really blame that fully on stern, he could help fix it, but i mostly just blame that on bandwagon fans (like all the lakers fans in utah) and simply just the media

ill still watch teh nba for some reason, but sometimes i wonder why, utah can only get good players thorugh the draft (dwill,malone,stockton) unless they are white and have families with they come to utah lol

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 05:49 PM
That is subjective. Definitely a matter of perspective.

The NHL has enacted the goal to sell the game of hockey across the United States. It is a lofty goal and will not succeed everywhere, but the only way to know for sure is to continue to try. You can't sell a sport in a short time period, I admire Bettman for remaining consistent with his goals. Even if places like Phoenix don't pan out in the long-run, the league is bound to have misses. But selling the game across the United States would be huge for the popularity and wealth of the game.

Stricter penalties to increase scoring has been a positive change from me watching. I think the league is right to reward the fast, more skilled players by allowed them room to skate. Just because the players haven't all adjusted to that yet, causing more penalties doesn't mean it is a bad decision.

How are no more ties, the shootout and the trapezoid inherently "bad" changes? I don't like the trapezoid myself, but others I like.

Some positives all throw at you are the hard cap and the ability of smaller markets to compete to the teams with money.

Fair enough, without further delving into the NHL example though I'll say that I don't think Stern has done as good a job as many posters in this thread are claiming

valade16
02-23-2010, 05:49 PM
You cant rig the actual games bro, and you dont erase a 14 PT deficit because of a technical. I never worry about the outcome being decided by refs. Even in the most extreme examples (The Kings series/Bucks vs Philly) the underdog had a chance to take the series.

Also didnt the Blazers win the lottery despite already being a team on the rise, sounds like a fair shake to me. If I were a Blazers fan Id love the NBA right now.

Can't rig the actual games? Tell that to Donaghy... You can too rig a basketball as a referee, it might be the easiest sport to do it in actually, because the gameplay is so fast it's hard to scrutinize every call...

They won the lottery yes, but don't forget 2005-2006 when we had the worst record in the league and ended up 4th...

That's a good example of how random the NBA is, the Blazers should get the 1st pick, end up 4th and thanks to Pritchard manage to get the best 2 players at the top of the draft, Aldridge and Roy. Where as 2 years ago they magically got the 1st pick and struckout choosing Oden over Durant...

I don't think the NBA is rigged, but if it is Rigged I hope people don't shrug it off and say "as long as it's good for the league". That's BS

valade16
02-23-2010, 05:51 PM
yes exactly because the blazer were shafted over the odds on favorites,the celtics, for the number 1 pick in 07:rolleyes:

yup your right,stern sure showed his bias towards boston and against potland there

As I said in post just above, the blazers lost out in a draft in 06, so that would negate the Blazers being thrust in the spotlight as you claim.

I never said he cheats or rigs it, I'm just saying it makes me suspicious when everyone says "it's ok if he rigs it so long as it's good for the league"...

HoopsDrive
02-23-2010, 05:53 PM
He's done an incredible job of globalizing the game and I applaud him for that. NBA awareness in the international scene is huge because of his actions. I've got relatives that live abroad and out of all the pro sports league in America they only know about the NBA and sporadic knowledge about the NFL (aka: Superbowl).

abe_froman
02-23-2010, 05:56 PM
As I said in post just above, the blazers lost out in a draft in 06, so that would negate the Blazers being thrust in the spotlight as you claim.

I never said he cheats or rigs it, I'm just saying it makes me suspicious when everyone says "it's ok if he rigs it so long as it's good for the league"...

lost out,yes getting the 4th pick and ending up with the 2 best players in the draft so convinces me that you guys "lost out" that year

tr4shb0t
02-23-2010, 05:56 PM
I think he ruined it, but to the casual fans it's more entertaining. Unfortunately, that's the majority of viewers. He has only succeeded in making it marketable and profitable, but the sport disappeared.

If you've watched college ball or European ball you can see that skill dominates whereas the NBA if you have a personality and are entertaining then you get the calls even if you have no skills or fundamentals. Not to mention the whole keeping games close so viewers don't drop off and keeping records close to keep things interesting.

For the most part it's a joke and not real, and playoffs are only slightly better.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 05:58 PM
He's done an incredible job of globalizing the game and I applaud him for that. NBA awareness in the international scene is huge because of his actions. I've got relatives that live abroad and out of all the pro sports league in America they only know about the NBA and sporadic knowledge about the NFL (aka: Superbowl).

Which is perhaps the best thing that will remain entrenched in his legacy...aside from that though, I think his tenure has been stained with a lot of negatives as well; probably outweighing the good

OrderOfCook
02-23-2010, 06:00 PM
I don't understand how anybody could say that David Stern has done poorly. What is the job of the commissioner? To preside over the league in such a way that builds the business. There are many different facets to that, absolutely, but the over-arching goal is to make the NBA more valuable as a league over the passage of time.

He's been commissioner for 26 years now, and during that time--with the help of Michael Jordan--the game has gone global. Entire leagues popping up in Europe while the world national teams have come up to parity with the US in several of the last few major competitions. Make no mistake, the NBA will eventually move into Europe--it's the natural next move for the league as the worthwhile North American markets have all been tapped.

I'm not sure how many people understand how complicated being commissioner is, either. He's CEO of a company that has 30 of the world's more powerful businessmen/families involved, a marketing network in the billions to contend with, and over 450 players, some of whom have reached obscene heights of celebridom and TV contracts that keep reeling in the money.

That's like being the arbiter between 30 major corporations while having executive operational authority over all of them to some degree.

And the OP came up with what, 4 possible problems in 25 years (I don't buy the conspiracies)? How many of you are even 25 years old?

Let's take our heads out of our *****, shall we everyone?

valade16
02-23-2010, 06:01 PM
lost out,yes getting the 4th pick and ending up with the 2 best players in the draft so convinces me that you guys "lost out"

I'll break this down so you understand better.

Going from should be 1st to 4th is losing out. Do you think the Cavs would've complained had they gotten the 4th spot instead of the 1st spot that year?

The only reason we didn't "lose out" as you claim is because we have a good GM. You probably don't remember judging by your post, but the Blazers originally drafted Tyrus Thomas and Randy Foye and were able to trade them for Aldridge and Roy.

That's because of the GM, not because of the league, or anything else...

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 06:12 PM
I don't understand how anybody could say that David Stern has done poorly. What is the job of the commissioner? To preside over the league in such a way that builds the business. There are many different facets to that, absolutely, but the over-arching goal is to make the NBA more valuable as a league over the passage of time.

He's been commissioner for 26 years now, and during that time--with the help of Michael Jordan--the game has gone global. Entire leagues popping up in Europe while the world national teams have come up to parity with the US in several of the last few major competitions. Make no mistake, the NBA will eventually move into Europe--it's the natural next move for the league as the worthwhile North American markets have all been tapped.

I'm not sure how many people understand how complicated being commissioner is, either. He's CEO of a company that has 30 of the world's more powerful businessmen/families involved, a marketing network in the billions to contend with, and over 450 players, some of whom have reached obscene heights of celebridom and TV contracts that keep reeling in the money.

That's like being the arbiter between 30 major corporations while having executive operational authority over all of them to some degree.

And the OP came up with what, 4 possible problems in 25 years (I don't buy the conspiracies)? How many of you are even 25 years old?

Let's take our heads out of our *****, shall we everyone?

Obviously the primary goal of the NBA and Stern it to increase profit margins for each of it's owners but at what cost? Are you saying that as long as profits grow exponentially than it doesn't matter how they are attained?...You can say all I came up with are 4 "possible" problems, but some of them are pretty damn big

Giantwarrior
02-23-2010, 06:14 PM
at least he's not Bud Selig. NBA has its fair share of problems, but its better then the other professional leagues out there. i think the next step for Stern is to figure out The whole debacle about the NBA Draft and One and done players.

I say if you're good enough declare for the Draft after after High School or go to college for 3 years to be eligible. players who are not drafted have to go play professionally in D-league or Euro League until they are good enough to get drafted.

Stern also has to figure out the disparity between the Eastern and Western Confrences. He should figure out the scheduling of the regular season and let the top 16 teams from both leagues play in the playoffs.

OrderOfCook
02-23-2010, 06:18 PM
Absolutely not, I have no idea how you got that idea from my post. My post states that in the role of commissioner, defined by what it is, that David Stern has done an exceptional job.

You want a personal opinion on the business?

I think professional sports is a colossal waste of money, where often-times the losses are socialized into the tax-paying pocket (see, for example, the $314 million Toronto lost on the Skydome's build while private companies took the later profits).

I think players are paid far, far too much considering they merely--when you get right down to it--play a game at a high level and if we really, actually enjoyed the virtues of the sport that we claim to (except maybe teamwork) we'd be much more impressed with individual sport achievements but they don't come with the storylines, drama and money that team sports come with. And so in that regard, again, Stern does a good job selling what makes team sports a cash cow.

I don't think anyone should ever make profits off things that disadvantage anyone else--a good reason for all you kiddies to buy some of the New Balance line shoes that are made in North America with much higher quality than kids younger than you spend 18 hour days making for the LeBron ones--and it's why I choose to consume ethically.

Why do I watch sports, you might ask? Because they're there, and I feel as though perhaps some of my money has gone to them anyway so why not reap the entertainment I may have already paid for.

HoopsDrive
02-23-2010, 06:21 PM
Which is perhaps the best thing that will remain entrenched in his legacy...aside from that though, I think his tenure has been stained with a lot of negatives as well; probably outweighing the good

The lockout issue and gambling sindicate were pretty bad but both were handled pretty well if you ask me. Compare that to the steroid scandals in the MLB and the lack of global awareness from other leagues such as the NHL and I'd say the NBA has improved dramatically over the span of his tenure.

Just increasing the global awareness of the league and consequently, of basketball, is enough to not only outweigh the lows in his tenure but assures his place as one of the best commissioners any pro sport league in America has ever seen.

FlakeyFool
02-23-2010, 06:44 PM
compared to the likes of bettman and selig, Stern is head and toes a better commish then them.

Incublime24
02-23-2010, 07:00 PM
I just finished watching SonicsGate for the first time, and must say I was really impressed with how it was all put together...with that said, it just really broadened what I had already taken note of...This is the man who during his tenure as commish has...

1) Overseen the relocation of 4 teams (Kings, Grizzlies, Hornets and Sonics)

2) Been at the centre of numerous draft lottery conspiracy theories beginning in 85 with the Ewing to NYK theory

3) Already has one lockout under his belt in the 98-99 season, alienating numerous fans, and is potentially poised for another to kick off the 2011 season

4) Been faced with the refereeing scandal and Tim Donaghy, who claimed that the NBA openly tells its refs to favour certain teams with marquee players and generally in bigger markets that will increase television ratings

If i'm forgetting anything feel free to add to the list, however, has he ruined the league in his tenure?


how can i watch this?

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 07:11 PM
how can i watch this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Dp20ydm1E

here you go man...enjoy

Kingz4L
02-23-2010, 07:13 PM
I will never forget what that corrupt low life sob did to us in 2002...so hard to let that go btw...but the thing that kills me is how I paid my hard earned dollars to attend some of those season games...only to have my hopes up taken away from me beacuse of $.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 07:26 PM
I will never forget what that corrupt low life sob did to us in 2002...so hard to let that go btw...but the thing that kills me is how I paid my hard earned dollars to attend some of those season games...only to have my hopes up taken away from me beacuse of $.

The one thing I really remember from that series was that shot that Horry hit when Vlade smacked the ball right to him with like a second left...I mean seriously, how lucky can you get??

Kingz4L
02-23-2010, 07:32 PM
The one thing I really remember from that series was that shot that Horry hit when Vlade smacked the ball right to him with like a second left...I mean seriously, how lucky can you get??

Please dont remind me of that...Horry is very clutch but he is lucky for getting a wide open shot like that...anybody that says any different is lying to himself.

Baller1
02-23-2010, 07:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Dp20ydm1E

here you go man...enjoy

There's nothing to enjoy about that video; as an ex-Sonics fan, that was probably the most depressing piece I've ever seen.

Baller1
02-23-2010, 07:34 PM
And to answer the question.

**** David Stern, yes he has ruined the NBA.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 07:37 PM
There's nothing to enjoy about that video; as an ex-Sonics fan, that was probably the most depressing piece I've ever seen.

Well I didn't mean to enjoy the fact that Seattle lost their team...but I enjoyed watching it because it's very informative and put together very well...I don't think anyone outside of OKC wanted the Sonics to leave, including me, but I wasn't sure of the exact details of their departure...quick question, it says that OKC also has the historical rights of the Sonics, but i could have sworn that one of the conditions upon leaving was the Sonics name, colours and history stayed in Seattle??

ElMarroAfamado
02-23-2010, 07:48 PM
nah...
people are always going to complain about everything ALWAYS...people are never content...people will alwaaaaaays find something to complain about one way or another ...

Baller1
02-23-2010, 07:49 PM
Well I didn't mean to enjoy the fact that Seattle lost their team...but I enjoyed watching it because it's very informative and put together very well...I don't think anyone outside of OKC wanted the Sonics to leave, including me, but I wasn't sure of the exact details of their departure...quick question, it says that OKC also has the historical rights of the Sonics, but i could have sworn that one of the conditions upon leaving was the Sonics name, colours and history stayed in Seattle??

The name, colors, trophies, retired jerseys, etc. remain in Seattle, so WHEN a team gets back to the Pacific Northwest in Seattle, they will be green and gold as the Seattle Supersonics.

However, everything else (literally everything) is in possesion of the Oklahoma City Thunder. For example, franchise records and past win-loss records and such, are a part of the OKC franchise; Durant's string of 7 consecutive 30 points games earlier this season was a franchise record, and that includes the entire Seattle franchise dating back to the first year they were in the league.

GodsSon
02-23-2010, 07:56 PM
The name, colors, trophies, retired jerseys, etc. remain in Seattle, so WHEN a team gets back to the Pacific Northwest in Seattle, they will be green and gold as the Seattle Supersonics.

However, everything else (literally everything) is in possesion of the Oklahoma City Thunder. For example, franchise records and past win-loss records and such, are a part of the OKC franchise; Durant's string of 7 consecutive 30 points games earlier this season was a franchise record, and that includes the entire Seattle franchise dating back to the first year they were in the league.

Thanks for the clarification...I remember reading/hearing somewhere last year that OKC actually had the nerve to ask Payton if they could retire his jersey and he rightfully rejected them lol