PDA

View Full Version : Could Chris Paul become expendable if Darren Collison keeps up this play?



Boston Faithful
02-22-2010, 04:43 AM
Please don't move this to the Hornets forum, not many people post there and I want to know what fans of all teams have to think.

The Hornets are 5-5 since Paul went out. Collison is averaging over 20 points and 10 assists in those ten games. He had a triple double one game and they have defeated Boston, Houston, Charlotte and Memphis in four of those games.

They weren't going anywhere with Paul and he would sure net them picks and very good players in return.

Why not build around Collison and trade Paul for major supporting pieces?

Spurred1
02-22-2010, 04:52 AM
No, it doesn't make him expendable. Paul is essentially the face of the Hornets franchise. Hornets are just damned lucky Collison's stepping up-but who knows how long it will last? Hornets would be nuts to get rid of Paul.

DaoudS
02-22-2010, 04:53 AM
Chris Paul is a very special talent, I don't think he gets dealt just because a rookie is playing well. I think once teams adjust and create more scouting reports, Collison's numbers will stabilize lower than what they are at right now. He is likely to be trade bait, but NO is in a great situation. If I were the Hornets front office, I would see what type of talent Collison could net them - a prime SG/SF would do wonders for that team.

tredigs
02-22-2010, 04:57 AM
He'd have to learn how to control the ball better, but I agree the kid has some serious potential. He's explosive, and always looking to penetrate and dish. I'm not sure what either of their contract situations are, other than that CP3 isn't a free agent. And I also can't really imagine what kind of trade that would be. Nobody who would be a fair straight up deal could or would be traded, so it would have to be him for two all star caliber players... I don't know, you never really see a player of Cp3's talent traded in the prime of their career, would be fun to see how that went down.

TheKing23
02-22-2010, 05:00 AM
NO

When Chris Paul is fit he's arguably top 3 after LeBron and Kobe, he's definitely a top 5 player in the league. Just because Collison is playing well in his absence doesn't mean you should trade a future HOF'er.

The Lakers are 4-1 whilst Shannon Brown has averaged 16.6 ppg... Do you trade Kobe? Hell no.

B.JenningsMVP
02-22-2010, 05:04 AM
NO

When Chris Paul is fit he's arguably top 3 after LeBron and Kobe, he's definitely a top 5 player in the league. Just because Collison is playing well in his absence doesn't mean you should trade a future HOF'er.

The Lakers are 4-1 whilst Shannon Brown has averaged 16.6 ppg... Do you trade Kobe? Hell no.

+1
Perfectly Explained and nice comparison to Kobe being out.

Boston Faithful
02-22-2010, 05:06 AM
NO

When Chris Paul is fit he's arguably top 3 after LeBron and Kobe, he's definitely a top 5 player in the league. Just because Collison is playing well in his absence doesn't mean you should trade a future HOF'er.

The Lakers are 4-1 whilst Shannon Brown has averaged 16.6 ppg... Do you trade Kobe? Hell no.

Did you really just compare a five game stretch of beating floosies averaging 16.6 points per game to a ten game stretch of averaging 20 and 10, beating playoff teams and contenders?

The Lakers are a top 3 team in the league. If Kobe's out for five games, it's not going to hurt. The Hornets aren't even going to make the playoffs and it clearly hasn't worked the past two years for them. They fired their coach and traded a center that worked so well with Paul. They obviously have serious personnel issues. They aren't a piece or two from a championship and Paul would net a serious return as opposed to anyone else on their team.

TheKing23
02-22-2010, 05:06 AM
He's also averaging 4.9 turnovers per game in that stretch...

His assist to turnover ratio is 1.9, compared to Chris Paul's godly 4.4... Collison is a talent but Chris Paul is the best PG in the league.

TheKing23
02-22-2010, 05:13 AM
Did you really just compare a five game stretch of beating floosies averaging 16.6 points per game to a ten game stretch of averaging 20 and 10, beating playoff teams and contenders?

The Lakers are a top 3 team in the league. If Kobe's out for five games, it's not going to hurt. The Hornets aren't even going to make the playoffs and it clearly hasn't worked the past two years for them. They fired their coach and traded a center that worked so well with Paul. They obviously have serious personnel issues. They aren't a piece or two from a championship and Paul would net a serious return as opposed to anyone else on their team.

The Hornets are 5-5 with Collison starting... Out of the 5 teams they've beaten only the Celtics are comfortably over .500...

I honestly can't believe you're making an argument for trading the best PG in the league just because a rookie is having a nice stretch of games... and those 4.9 turnovers per game is hideous...

Don Starks
02-22-2010, 05:15 AM
its not that crazy to think paul would become expendable if collison was to keep up this kind of play. first of all the hornets are constantly trying to save money, and in todays NBA in order to be competitive you either have to build through the draft and have a solid core (see thunder) or you have to go completely over the cap (see lakers). most other teams fall somewhere in between and aren't considered to be anything more than middle of the pack contenders (see rockets).

i don't think the hornets have a solid enough core to be considered a team like the thunder and aren't willing to go over the cap enough to be like the lakers, so they are probably going to remain a middle of the pack team with an above average superstar in paul.

the hornets seem like they dont know if they want to save money or win. i think if they were smart they would hold onto collison and trade paul for a ton of draft picks and some young pieces, and do the same with west and okafor. they would be able to build a team like the trailblazers or thunder within a few years and have enough cheap contracts to be able to stay below the cap. its better than holding onto a superstar like paul and just waiting in mediocrity.

personally if i were the owner of the hornets i would just trade paul and take the PR hit and build a cheap team. Paul is going to be a F.A in 2011 and teams wont be willing to trade as many draft picks for him if they are sure he is going to leave, which it seems like he will because he is always clamoring about the need for more talent. just take the hit and build through the draft.

TheKing23
02-22-2010, 05:24 AM
its not that crazy to think paul would become expendable if collison was to keep up this kind of play. first of all the hornets are constantly trying to save money, and in todays NBA in order to be competitive you either have to build through the draft and have a solid core (see thunder) or you have to go completely over the cap (see lakers). most other teams fall somewhere in between and aren't considered to be anything more than middle of the pack contenders (see rockets).

i don't think the hornets have a solid enough core to be considered a team like the thunder and aren't willing to go over the cap enough to be like the lakers, so they are probably going to remain a middle of the pack team with an above average superstar in paul.

the hornets seem like they dont know if they want to save money or win. i think if they were smart they would hold onto collison and trade paul for a ton of draft picks and some young pieces, and do the same with west and okafor. they would be able to build a team like the trailblazers or thunder within a few years and have enough cheap contracts to be able to stay below the cap. its better than holding onto a superstar like paul and just waiting in mediocrity.

In that case the Hornets can have all of the Cavs' picks for the next decade and all of our players under the age of 24 for Chris Paul!

You do make a good point though...

But Chris Paul is the face of the franchise, trading him would destroy the fanbase the Hornets have. Trading a top 5 guy in the league for draft picks and prospects is the equivalent of handing in your resignation if your the GM... Jeff Bowers *** would be fired so quick!

nolin
02-22-2010, 05:25 AM
Please don't move this to the Hornets forum, not many people post there and I want to know what fans of all teams have to think.

The Hornets are 5-5 since Paul went out. Collison is averaging over 20 points and 10 assists in those ten games. He had a triple double one game and they have defeated Boston, Houston, Charlotte and Memphis in four of those games.

They weren't going anywhere with Paul and he would sure net them picks and very good players in return.

Why not build around Collison and trade Paul for major supporting pieces?

no doubt cp3 is overrated anyways. Its the hornets system

tredigs
02-22-2010, 05:30 AM
its not that crazy to think paul would become expendable if collison was to keep up this kind of play. first of all the hornets are constantly trying to save money, and in todays NBA in order to be competitive you either have to build through the draft and have a solid core (see thunder) or you have to go completely over the cap (see lakers). most other teams fall somewhere in between and aren't considered to be anything more than middle of the pack contenders (see rockets).

i don't think the hornets have a solid enough core to be considered a team like the thunder and aren't willing to go over the cap enough to be like the lakers, so they are probably going to remain a middle of the pack team with an above average superstar in paul.

the hornets seem like they dont know if they want to save money or win. i think if they were smart they would hold onto collison and trade paul for a ton of draft picks and some young pieces, and do the same with west and okafor. they would be able to build a team like the trailblazers or thunder within a few years and have enough cheap contracts to be able to stay below the cap. its better than holding onto a superstar like paul and just waiting in mediocrity.

personally if i were the owner of the hornets i would just trade paul and take the PR hit and build a cheap team. Paul is going to be a F.A in 2011 and teams wont be willing to trade as many draft picks for him if they are sure he is going to leave, which it seems like he will because he is always clamoring about the need for more talent. just take the hit and build through the draft.

Sound argument. Knowing that he's a FA in 2011, I like the idea of trading before the contract year as well. The team truly isn't going to do a damn thing next year besides a possible first round exit, and Paul will definitely be ready to get out of New Orleans at that point.

I don't like the idea of holding onto a superstar just for the sake of holding onto a superstar. If your team can't win with what is in place, then you've got to use what resources you have to try something else. Collison will never be the player that Paul is, but it doesn't mean that he couldn't be good enough to lead a better all around team to more success for the franchise. The next month of games will tell a lot..

Don Starks
02-22-2010, 05:30 AM
In that case the Hornets can have all of the Cavs' picks for the next decade and all of our players under the age of 24 for Chris Paul!

You do make a good point though...

But Chris Paul is the face of the franchise, trading him would destroy the fanbase the Hornets have. Trading a top 5 guy in the league for draft picks and prospects is the equivalent of handing in your resignation if your the GM... Jeff Bowers *** would be fired so quick!

if it were any other franchise i would say keep him, but since the hornets are so intent on saving money i think they should just bite the bullet. and considering jeff bowers would be saving the owners money, i could see them giving him a raise....but the fans would light his *** up.

TheKing23
02-22-2010, 05:32 AM
no doubt cp3 is overrated anyways. Its the hornets system

So the Hornets system makes him the most efficient PG this side of John Stockton?

Hell, you could even argue he's the most efficient PG ever, for his career Stockton's assists to turnover ratio was at 3.7... Paul's is at 3.8.

tredigs
02-22-2010, 05:33 AM
In that case the Hornets can have all of the Cavs' picks for the next decade and all of our players under the age of 24 for Chris Paul!

You do make a good point though...

But Chris Paul is the face of the franchise, trading him would destroy the fanbase the Hornets have. Trading a top 5 guy in the league for draft picks and prospects is the equivalent of handing in your resignation if your the GM... Jeff Bowers *** would be fired so quick!

Haha uhh yeah, I'm pretty sure that this is the sort of thing you'd clear with the owner before he signed any dotted lines.

You'd also have to get more than just picks and prospects, at least one piece of the trade would have to be a proven talent. But the more I think about it, for this situation in particular I actually like the idea of a trade a lot. I can't say that about any other superstar.

Boston Faithful
02-22-2010, 05:47 AM
In that case the Hornets can have all of the Cavs' picks for the next decade and all of our players under the age of 24 for Chris Paul!

You do make a good point though...

But Chris Paul is the face of the franchise, trading him would destroy the fanbase the Hornets have. Trading a top 5 guy in the league for draft picks and prospects is the equivalent of handing in your resignation if your the GM... Jeff Bowers *** would be fired so quick!

I think you don't know what opinion you even have.

After telling me in two previous posts that my opinion was stupid, you tell another poster that he makes a good point - which is the same point I made in the first post. Trade Paul for picks and prospects because the Hornets aren't willing to spend and they are stuck in the middle of the pack.

TheKing23
02-22-2010, 06:15 AM
I think you don't know what opinion you even have.

After telling me in two previous posts that my opinion was stupid, you tell another poster that he makes a good point - which is the same point I made in the first post. Trade Paul for picks and prospects because the Hornets aren't willing to spend and they are stuck in the middle of the pack.

No I know what opinion I have... In your original post you asked if Collison's stellar play make CP3 expendable. No, it doesn't because of how good he is.

When Don Starks bought up the whole idea about the Hornets being a financially strict team, the crazy option of trading Paul becomes a bit more sane. If you were alluding to this in your original post, then my mistake. But from what you said it (or maybe from the way I read it) it seemed as if you were asking if Collison's 20/10 play makes Paul expendable. I still stand by my opinion that this is not the case.

Boston Faithful
02-22-2010, 06:40 AM
No I know what opinion I have... In your original post you asked if Collison's stellar play make CP3 expendable. No, it doesn't because of how good he is.

When Don Starks bought up the whole idea about the Hornets being a financially strict team, the crazy option of trading Paul becomes a bit more sane. If you were alluding to this in your original post, then my mistake. But from what you said it (or maybe from the way I read it) it seemed as if you were asking if Collison's 20/10 play makes Paul expendable. I still stand by my opinion that this is not the case.

I was alluding to it. It's cool. I was trying to say would the Hornets be better off (in the financial situation they are in) trading Paul for cheaper All-Star caliber players and picks and building around younger guys like Collison and Thornton to become something like the Thunder or do they keep Paul?

They have proved they don't want to spend and Paul is clearly going to be unhappy being there if they don't want to shoot for the sky.

TheKing23
02-22-2010, 07:06 AM
I was alluding to it. It's cool. I was trying to say would the Hornets be better off (in the financial situation they are in) trading Paul for cheaper All-Star caliber players and picks and building around younger guys like Collison and Thornton to become something like the Thunder or do they keep Paul?

They have proved they don't want to spend and Paul is clearly going to be unhappy being there if they don't want to shoot for the sky.

Well with the way he's been playing and the fact that the Hornets don't want to sign players to max contracts, I think it's a more than reasonable possibility...

Jeff Bowers would be crucified by the fans though...

TheKing23
02-22-2010, 07:28 AM
.

alencp3
02-22-2010, 08:04 AM
WTF??? Collison is averaging like 5 TO per game! Are u serious with this thread? OMG!

The_Pharouh
02-22-2010, 08:22 AM
If Hornets wants to save money then they CP3 isn't gonna be traded because he is the one that helps them getting more money
I think they will use Collison for a good trade to help CP3

The_Pharouh
02-22-2010, 08:50 AM
its not that crazy to think paul would become expendable if collison was to keep up this kind of play. first of all the hornets are constantly trying to save money, and in todays NBA in order to be competitive you either have to build through the draft and have a solid core (see thunder) or you have to go completely over the cap (see lakers). most other teams fall somewhere in between and aren't considered to be anything more than middle of the pack contenders (see rockets).

i don't think the hornets have a solid enough core to be considered a team like the thunder and aren't willing to go over the cap enough to be like the lakers, so they are probably going to remain a middle of the pack team with an above average superstar in paul.

the hornets seem like they dont know if they want to save money or win. i think if they were smart they would hold onto collison and trade paul for a ton of draft picks and some young pieces, and do the same with west and okafor. they would be able to build a team like the trailblazers or thunder within a few years and have enough cheap contracts to be able to stay below the cap. its better than holding onto a superstar like paul and just waiting in mediocrity.

personally if i were the owner of the hornets i would just trade paul and take the PR hit and build a cheap team. Paul is going to be a F.A in 2011 and teams wont be willing to trade as many draft picks for him if they are sure he is going to leave, which it seems like he will because he is always clamoring about the need for more talent. just take the hit and build through the draft.
They want to be the best team they can be with the money they have ,You can't just trade the best PG in the game because of a good Rookie who is just 2 years younger
They will never get the same Value so simply it will stupid to trade him at least till his contract year(he will be a FA in 2012)

magichatnumber9
02-22-2010, 09:18 AM
His play as to date is really good for this franchise. Next year they can probably trade this guy and get really good value and make a push next season. Good stuff Hornets. Glad this thread didn't get moved.

kobebabe
02-22-2010, 10:17 AM
The Hornets are 5-5 with Collison starting... Out of the 5 teams they've beaten only the Celtics are comfortably over .500...

I honestly can't believe you're making an argument for trading the best PG in the league just because a rookie is having a nice stretch of games... and those 4.9 turnovers per game is hideous...

Good point here. although his averages have gone up, so has his turnovers. Once the rest of the league figure him out, his numbers will definitely drop. I would not trade my franchise player for a rookie who happens to be having a good stretch of games. I would actually start thinking what a tradable asset i have and start thinking how i would get some really good pieces from him. He is a talented kid and am sure he will be such a talent in the future but not as good as CP3.

kobebabe
02-22-2010, 10:19 AM
How about the lakers pursue him as a future replacement for Fish! He would be a great talent for us. What do you lakers fans think?

Sly Guy
02-22-2010, 10:37 AM
once teams adjust and create more scouting reports, Collison's numbers will stabilize lower than what they are at right now.

this.

It's always too early to make a call on a player without seeing what they can do over a season, or at least a good, long stretch of it.

td0tsfinest
02-22-2010, 10:38 AM
He's putting up numbers but the team is 5-6 since Pauls injury. Not to mention the number of TOs.

If anything, you could probably get good value for Darren Collision.

JayW_1023
02-22-2010, 10:54 AM
Collison is probably 3rd in the ROY race behind Evans and Curry.

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 10:58 AM
Collison needs to cut down his TOs. He is often careless with the ball. That being said, he is putting up some great numbers and looks like the real deal. It does make sense from a business standpoint to deal CP3. Im sure his trade value is high.

I just don't see NO trading CP3... he resurrected the franchise and the people of NO love him. With Paul gone, how can they market? David West as the face of the franchise?

Big Quett
02-22-2010, 10:58 AM
He's also averaging 4.9 turnovers per game in that stretch...

His assist to turnover ratio is 1.9, compared to Chris Paul's godly 4.4... Collison is a talent but Chris Paul is the best PG in the league.

Yeah this. That is horrible. And yeah he is averaging 20 points but he is also taking 17 shots to get there. Where as Paul takes 15

Big Quett
02-22-2010, 11:11 AM
I was alluding to it. It's cool. I was trying to say would the Hornets be better off (in the financial situation they are in) trading Paul for cheaper All-Star caliber players and picks and building around younger guys like Collison and Thornton to become something like the Thunder or do they keep Paul?

They have proved they don't want to spend and Paul is clearly going to be unhappy being there if they don't want to shoot for the sky.

They have spent money they have just proved they dont know how to spend it.

Stojakovic 5 years 64 mil at the age of 29
Mo Pete 5 years 29 mil at the age of 29
Posey 4 years 25 mil at the age of 31
And taking on Emaka contract with 52 mil and 4 years left


That is why they have no financial flexibility. The FO should be gone imo. They caused this mess so do you really think they can get their selves of out of it?

twoearl
02-22-2010, 11:22 AM
I am really shocked sometimes by the outlandish comments and thoughts on these Forums. CP3 is a Future Hall of Fame player who is still young and in the prime of his career. You do NOT trade those type players PERIOD. End of discussion. How about trading collison for some players.

D1JM
02-22-2010, 11:42 AM
He isn't a free agent till 2012. Plus he has a player option of 17 mill which I think he will excercise

mavwar53
02-22-2010, 11:43 AM
I believe the question was if he could keep up this kinda of play right?

If so then yes he becomes expendable.

Collison is putting up paul like numbers and he is just a rookie, which means rookie contract for this year and 3 after that then RFA. The hornets seem to not have money, they gave away rasul butler and Hilton Armstrong, so if they could get a star SG or SF I see no reason why they wouldn't deal him. Cut cap and get a player they need sounds like a no brainer (depending on who that player they would get would be).

mavwar53
02-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Numbers as starter in rookie year

CP3
16.1 PPG 7.8 Ast 2.4 TO 5.1 REB 43% FG% 2.2 stl

Collison
17.9 PPG 8.1 Ast 4.1 TO 3.9 REB 46% FG% 1.6 stl

Pretty damn close, collison will learn to keep TO's down, Paul won't learn how to take less money the next 3 years while collison is on his rookie contract. The hornets will not be a title contending team if they do not make a trade by next deadline, cause collison and paul both need the ball to be effective and paul plays 38+ min/G so collison can handle the ball less than 10 min a game, not really gonna help him.

MikefromMars
02-22-2010, 12:07 PM
Why dont the trade Collison and keep Paul?

I would never trade CP3.

mavwar53
02-22-2010, 12:16 PM
Why dont the trade Collison and keep Paul?

I would never trade CP3.

Collison makes somewhere in the range of 1.5 mil, it is a lot harder to find value at this price than with higher paid players, so unless there is someone who is gonna take on one of their bad contracts you will get a low paid guy that likely isn't as good. And because collison hasn't played enough to prove himself comlpletly value for what he could be isn't going to be coming the Hornets way.

Rookie numbers are just as good if not better than CP3's rookie year, so why take a chance and trade him if you cant get real value for him.

BkOriginalOne
02-22-2010, 12:17 PM
Collison is playing well, but Chris Paul is great.

mavwar53
02-22-2010, 12:24 PM
Collison is playing well, but Chris Paul is great.

Is that what you would have said when paul was a rookie?

Don't get me wrong Paul is great, and I havn't watched Collison play yet, but his numbers are just as good as CP3's rookie year. Higher TO's higher PPG and higher %'s

icon1914
02-22-2010, 12:27 PM
Depends on the direction the team wants to go in... if they call it in and say that this Hornets team will not win and they want to start fresh Collison gives them that option.

It would not be the first time a franchise dumped an older star for a younger, more affordable, option ( Ray Allen and Mike Redd)... The Hornets have a lot of bad contracts, and very little to show for it. I would not be surprised if they accepted the right offer for Chris Paul to free up some money and rebuild though the lottery.

None of this would happen anytime soon, but things could be very different come next trade deadline.

Big Quett
02-22-2010, 12:52 PM
Is that what you would have said when paul was a rookie?

Don't get me wrong Paul is great, and I havn't watched Collison play yet, but his numbers are just as good as CP3's rookie year. Higher TO's higher PPG and higher %'s

Dude you cant compare a whole season to 18 or so games.

masalex1205
02-22-2010, 01:08 PM
If you want to trade Chris Paul back home, the Bobcats will be glad to take him. Gerald Wallace + Augustine + picks for Paul, bad contract

j/k the Hornets would be crazy to trade a All-NBA player, they wouldn't get his actual value

what54!?
02-22-2010, 01:14 PM
You don't trade a top player in the leauge (the best PG in the leauge) just because his back-up is playing well. They only trade CP3 if CP3 wants to leave

JasonJohnHorn
02-22-2010, 05:45 PM
Does it make him expendable? Yes. It does. The Hornets are a team who are losing money right now and the bottom line is they are paying big bucks for a star point guard on a team that is playing well, but is a mid-level team at best and may even miss the playoffs.

This situation is not unlike the situation Memphis had with Pao Gasol. They were paying him all-star wages and had a lottery team, and paying big bucks for a non-playoff roster just does not make sense.

If Collison (like Milsap last year) proves to be a quality starter that can keep the team afloat, and the Hornets are only a win a few game less than they would have with Paul in the rotation, then, strictly through a business stand point, it does not make sense to pay the big bucks to Paul.

West, Okafor, Peja and Paul are all making pretty decent coin, while Posey and Mo Pete are getting decent salaries as well. If this team can't make a move to make this core a legit contender, then it doesn't make sense to keep paying the salaries and moves need to be made.

Now maybe this means packaging up Collison with West or Okafor for a deal in the offseason and keeping Paul (since he is arguably the best point guard in the game today), or maybe this means trading in on Paul's high market value, getting some young talent and some picks, but either way the current salary structure for the Hornets does not translate the way it should. For a team paying as much as it is, they should be putting a legit contender on the floor and they are not, and they are losing money in the process so they seriously have to consider all options.

If money weren't an issue then I'd say keep Collison and Paul and be happy to have one of the best back-up point guards in the league while also having one of the best starting point guards in the league, but the bottom line is the Hornets are a business as much as they are a basketball team and since they are losing money they have to explore all options.

Moving Paul, and/or West, and/or Okafor, and/or Peja are moves the Hornets have to consdiser if they want to stay afloat as a business, and if the core they have isn't contending, they they have to look at rebuilding, and since they have a lot of talent they should be able to get a lot of draft picks and younger (and in turn cheaper) players to restructure their team and wouldn't have to go through an all-out rebuilding process, but rather a restructuring process.

That said, Paul is a special player and is the type of person you would ideally want to keep on your team because you know wherever else he goes he is going to be great and you will always kick yourself for moving him, but if you aren't in a winning situation you have to consider all options.

Wilson
02-22-2010, 06:11 PM
NO

When Chris Paul is fit he's arguably top 3 after LeBron and Kobe, he's definitely a top 5 player in the league. Just because Collison is playing well in his absence doesn't mean you should trade a future HOF'er.

The Lakers are 4-1 whilst Shannon Brown has averaged 16.6 ppg... Do you trade Kobe? Hell no.

The difference is, the Lakers are contending for the championship whereas the Hornets are stuck in a rut, and don't appear to have a ceiling higher than the first round.

As for whether they should trade Chris Paul or not, I think it just depends on what is out there. Whatever they do, they need to surround their starting PG with some talent. I do believe the Hornets should have looked into trading one of them before the deadline.

Collison at the very least should be a very good role player, and could possibly fetch some good talent. Over the next five years he's scheduled to make a total of $9'744'638, and is on the books for just $1'361'040 in 2010-'11. Teams looking to make an impact in would have lined up to try to acquire this guy, perhaps the Hornets could have gotten a speedy forward to play in Chris Paul's fast break.

They also could have looked for a collection of good role players with a top forward in a trade for Paul, which would set them up with a solid team.

PLAYERS FAN
02-22-2010, 06:14 PM
The hornets owner is George Shinn. Yes he can be expendable.

heathonater
02-22-2010, 06:37 PM
i think the hornets would trade collison actually. with a healthy paul, they could use collison to trade for a player they need.

Kakaroach
02-22-2010, 06:45 PM
i think the hornets would trade collison actually. with a healthy paul, they could use collison to trade for a player they need. x2 Just what I was thinking. Why trade a star PG when you can trade back-up for some quality players.

THE MTL
02-22-2010, 06:48 PM
Please don't move this to the Hornets forum, not many people post there and I want to know what fans of all teams have to think.

The Hornets are 5-5 since Paul went out. Collison is averaging over 20 points and 10 assists in those ten games. He had a triple double one game and they have defeated Boston, Houston, Charlotte and Memphis in four of those games.

They weren't going anywhere with Paul and he would sure net them picks and very good players in return.

Why not build around Collison and trade Paul for major supporting pieces?


Lol, Detroit said the same thing about Rodney Stuckey.

daleja424
02-22-2010, 07:38 PM
they could get A LOT of talent if they decided to trade him...

ko8e24
02-22-2010, 07:57 PM
In the Summer of 2010, resign Farmar and trade him with Bynum, 1st rd pick + $$$$ for Chris Paul.

Problem Solved.

Paul-Bryant-Artest-Odom-Gasol

Fisher-Brown-Vujacic-Walton-whoever

JermanJaysFan
02-22-2010, 08:04 PM
Expendable isn't the right word. The best PG is basketball is never expendable.

Should they trade CP3? Maybe. Does Collison make CP3's departure easier to handle? certainly. Is CP3 expendable? No

Vinny642
02-22-2010, 08:09 PM
I have to say this, if we had to trade one of those two, why would it be Paul and not Collison?

Hawkeye15
02-22-2010, 08:14 PM
hahahahah, is this for real???? If anything, Collision is increasing HIS trade value. If the Hornets trade Paul because Collison is playing well, I would hope New Orleans fans would riot

Hawkeye15
02-22-2010, 08:15 PM
now, if the Cavs call up and will offer a sign and trade, or Orlando offers Dwight, then fine. But you don't trade the best PG in the world just cause his backup is playing pretty good.

what54!?
02-22-2010, 08:16 PM
I have to say this, if we had to trade one of those two, why would it be Paul and not Collison?cheaper contract ,collison is younger (paul is still young though), and you could get A LOT more value with paul. I still don't think you trade CP3

IversonIsKrazy
02-22-2010, 08:17 PM
honestly, if i were the HOrnets GM, i would hope that CP3 is going to be injured for atleast 2 more weeks, so i can properly evaluate Collison. IMO, if he plays like he has, i would listen to CP3 offers, but i woudlnt trade for an average package, i would want just as much talent coming back

DP06
02-22-2010, 08:23 PM
When CP comes back the Hornets are going to have one hell of a point guard tandem.

Vinny642
02-22-2010, 08:24 PM
IMO we got the 3rd best player of the draft at quite a steal....
He is better than Jennings and he is comparable to Lawson but I think he is better.

Hawkeye15
02-22-2010, 08:32 PM
Collision doesn't have the ceiling of those PG's though. He is tiny, and not the best shooter. The reason he didn't go that high in the draft, is because he is not going to be as good most likely down the line, at least potentially (which the draft loves...), as Flynn, Jennings, Rubio, Curry, etc.
Of course, I am repeating his draft evaluation here. I don't necessarily think he won't improve, I just don't think there is ANY way he becomes an elite level PG.

mavwar53
02-22-2010, 08:59 PM
Collision doesn't have the ceiling of those PG's though. He is tiny, and not the best shooter. The reason he didn't go that high in the draft, is because he is not going to be as good most likely down the line, at least potentially (which the draft loves...), as Flynn, Jennings, Rubio, Curry, etc.
Of course, I am repeating his draft evaluation here. I don't necessarily think he won't improve, I just don't think there is ANY way he becomes an elite level PG.

same can be said for steve nash but look at him, potential is the worst word to use in evaluating players

Hawkeye15
02-22-2010, 09:21 PM
same can be said for steve nash but look at him, potential is the worst word to use in evaluating players

Nash is also 6'3", and can shoot lights out. BIG difference. Hell, Nash played SG at Santa Clara some too.

Hawkeye15
02-22-2010, 09:22 PM
also, I wasn't saying I agree with draft evaluators, even though I do think Collision has a lower upside than many of the PG's drafted above him, as does Lawson.

dodie53
02-22-2010, 11:45 PM
the answer is NO.

BlondeBomber41
02-22-2010, 11:50 PM
No, absolutely not. What this does is give the Hornets more options. They can look for a team that was impressed by Collison and possibly turn him into another piece that they can use to build around Paul.

Trading Chris Paul shouldn't be an option though. If he can get healthy again he has the talent to go down as arguably the greatest PG ever.

Boston Faithful
02-24-2010, 01:35 AM
Yet another great game by Collison. 22 points and 10 assists, in addition to 37 by Thornton.

Besides his atrocious turnover rate, he's virtually replacing Paul in every stat offensively and defensively. He's swiping a ridiculous amount of steals every game.

Collison and Thornton are the future backcourt for sure.

JNA17
02-24-2010, 01:57 AM
If Collinson can make better court decisions to decrease his turnover rate, then he could actually replace paul.

iggypop123
02-24-2010, 02:07 AM
bynum awaits if paul is on the market

JNA17
02-24-2010, 02:14 AM
bynum awaits if paul is on the market

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Kobe Bryant
SF: Ron Artest
PF: Lamar Odom
C: Pau Gasol

:drool:

BuddhaMONK
02-24-2010, 02:31 AM
Chris paul is not the best point guard in the league

1. nash (although hes old he is still the best in the league currently)
2.Derron Williams
3.Chris Paul (the only reason chris Paul was so good last year was because of tyson chandler ally oops)

JNA17
02-24-2010, 02:32 AM
Chris paul is not the best point guard in the league

1. nash (although hes old he is still the best in the league currently)
2.Derron Williams
3.Chris Paul (the only reason chris Paul was so good last year was because of tyson chandler ally oops)

not a good first post, but welcome to psd

rsweene
02-24-2010, 02:41 AM
Half a season of good play will NEVER replace multiple MVP caliber seasons like CP3 has produced.

Raph12
02-24-2010, 01:16 PM
So you'd trade the #1 PG in the league so that a potential Top 15 PG could take his spot?... Yeah that doesn't sound stupid at all. :rolleyes:

bigsams50
02-24-2010, 01:25 PM
Chris paul is not the best point guard in the league

1. nash (although hes old he is still the best in the league currently)
2.Derron Williams
3.Chris Paul (the only reason chris Paul was so good last year was because of tyson chandler ally oops)

Hate to brake it to ya, but Tyson Chandler sucks ***. CP3 made him what he was

JNaqvi23
02-24-2010, 02:09 PM
After a a good 10 minutes of study-time wasted reading this thread, I was compelled to reply.

Personally I love CP3 and am a firm believer that he is the best PG in the league. Although this season might not be going the way the last two went, he still manages to put up numbers and lead his team (as whack as his team is).

That being said, I would hate to see CP3 waste his career because the New Orleans FO can't manage their massive contract situation. And because that is an issue I would totally agree with the idea of trading him (not saying it will happen at all) but for the fact that CP can do so much for a team and NO is pretty much wasting his prime.

If they cant manage to put together a team for him in the next two years, i wouldn't doubt the fact that he tests FA in 2012 because he is the type of competitor who is willing to sacrifice money for championships.

Possible teams that he could go to? I honestly would love to see him in Orlando, especially if Jameer Nelson can't get back to full form. Imagine D12 with CP3! If he moves it will be to a well established squad. Maybe sign with NY if they fail to sign anyone this offseason and make a push for Melo next year? (All these ideas are obviously far-fetched but could be possibilities.)

In conclusion, I think CP3 needs to evaluate the situation he is in, because the management in NO isn't doing much now and if they cant do much later then its not worth wasting a HOF career over. In this day and age, with superstar players uncertain about committing to teams and trying to create super squads, I wouldn't blame the guy for WANTING to leave.

Legitimate
02-24-2010, 02:15 PM
well IF NO can get another superstar in return for CP3 i'd be all overthat. maybe BOSH+ calderon for CP3

3RDASYSTEM
02-24-2010, 02:33 PM
Had this convo other day....do you guys on here understand the NBA/NFL/MLB is a '''BUSINESS''' not for U/ME/BEST FRIEND etc.....CP3 sells JERSEY/TICKETS and is the ''FACE'' of franchise....reason why COLLISON is doin well is he can ''PLAY'' and the OFF. is built around the PG(CP3) so it makes the adjustment easier and plus WEST aint the ALLSTAR he was a couple yrs back....its the same reason KG got those back to back 100mil contracts cuz of JERSEY/TICKET sales for franchise but nobody thought he had the STATS to warrant such a contract and stat wise it wasnt but it was the fact he sold out all they home games and had one of the top sellin jersey,jus imagine the revenue stream the owner is making if they pay 100mil to one player and CP3 falls in that same category for the HORNETS(ALLSTAR/OLYMPIAN and marketable/sells jerseys)..CP3 aint goin nowhere til his contract runs its course and he chooses to bailout

Boston Faithful
02-24-2010, 04:25 PM
So you'd trade the #1 PG in the league so that a potential Top 15 PG could take his spot?... Yeah that doesn't sound stupid at all. :rolleyes:

Let's get this straight. The way Collison has been playing over the past 11 games - 23 PPG and 10 APG is a potential top 15 PG?

How do you conclude that?

To me, that seems like top 3 PG worthy.

Even if defenses start to adjust for him and his stats go down, you're still looking at 19 PPG and 8 APG. If he can handle the turnovers, he'll easily be a top 5 PG.

And Paul isn't the best PG in the league. First off, he isn't leading his team to wins. Nash is. Nash is easily the best PG in the league. Rondo's up Paul's *** now for the second spot. If Rondo improves his shooting to a respectable status, we could be talking about him surpassing Paul.

Raph12
02-24-2010, 05:39 PM
Let's get this straight. The way Collison has been playing over the past 11 games - 23 PPG and 10 APG is a potential top 15 PG?

How do you conclude that?

To me, that seems like top 3 PG worthy.

Even if defenses start to adjust for him and his stats go down, you're still looking at 19 PPG and 8 APG. If he can handle the turnovers, he'll easily be a top 5 PG.

And Paul isn't the best PG in the league. First off, he isn't leading his team to wins. Nash is. Nash is easily the best PG in the league. Rondo's up Paul's *** now for the second spot. If Rondo improves his shooting to a respectable status, we could be talking about him surpassing Paul.

Top 15 PGs in the league:
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Steve Nash
4. Chauncey Billups
5. Jason Kidd
6. Derrick Rose
7. Rajon Rondo
8. Tony Parker
9. Baron Davis
10. Devin Harris
11. Andre Miller
12. Tyreke Evans
13. Aaron Brooks
14. Russell Westbrook
15. Stephan Curry

A couple of them can be flip-flopped, but Darren Collison and his league-leading 5tpg (in that 11-game span) is not good enough to replace anyone on that list.

bigsams50
02-24-2010, 05:42 PM
^ You forgot Felton

IversonIsKrazy
02-24-2010, 11:45 PM
Deron Williams > Chris Paul
Just my opinion...

Collison in 20 games as starter: 29mpg, 19ppg, 8apg, 46% FG 38% 3, 4.5tpg

CP3's contract is going to finish in 2012, though i believe he as an option in 2011.
Maybe CP3 + Okafor for Bosh + Calderon :) :)

Korman12
02-25-2010, 12:36 AM
No, it makes Collison expendable.

Boston Faithful
02-25-2010, 12:37 AM
Top 15 PGs in the league:
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Steve Nash
4. Chauncey Billups
5. Jason Kidd
6. Derrick Rose
7. Rajon Rondo
8. Tony Parker
9. Baron Davis
10. Devin Harris
11. Andre Miller
12. Tyreke Evans
13. Aaron Brooks
14. Russell Westbrook
15. Stephan Curry

A couple of them can be flip-flopped, but Darren Collison and his league-leading 5tpg (in that 11-game span) is not good enough to replace anyone on that list.

Tack on another game tonight of 22 pts and 9 assists. He's averaging 20.9 pts and 8.9 assists for the month of February. Your kidding if you have Andre Miller on that list.

PatsSoxKnicks
02-25-2010, 01:04 AM
Top 10 PG's for THIS season according to PER:
1. Paul 26.2 PER
2. Nash 22.6 PER
3. Billups 22.03 PER
4. Deron 20.18 PER
5. Rondo 20.07 PER
6. Arenas 19.16 PER
7. Tyreke Evans 18.79 PER
8. Lou Williams 18.7 PER
9. Derek Rose 17.99 PER
10. Andre Miller 17.89 PER

Last year, CP3 had a 30.04 PER which was way way ahead of every other PG. Parker was 2nd in PER last year (23.47). Deron 5th (21.13). Nash 6th- 19.55. Rondo 8th- 18.9

Career PER,
CP3 25.9 (CP3's average PER the last 3 seasons is 28.1)
Nash 20.2 (Nash's average PER the last 3 seasons is 21)
Rondo 17.1 (Rondo's career PER is around the same as his average the last 3 seasons since he's been in the league for 4 years)
Billups 19.1 (Billups average PER the last 3 seasons is 21.5)
Deron 18.3 (Deron's average PER the last 3 seasons is around 20.6)
Tony Parker 18.4 (Parker's for the last 3 seasons is around 20)

Based on PER the last 3 years :
1 CP3
2 Billups
3 Nash
4 Deron
5 Parker
6 Rondo

Billups, Nash and Deron are interchangeable. Based on the talent each has to work with, an adjusted rankings:
1 CP3
2 Nash (Boozer and Amare are pretty similar, Amare's better but its pretty close, I think Utah's team is a little more talented)
3 Deron
4 Billups (has Melo)
5 Parker
6 Rondo

tredigs
02-25-2010, 01:10 AM
Tack on another game tonight of 22 pts and 9 assists. He's averaging 20.9 pts and 8.9 assists for the month of February. Your kidding if you have Andre Miller on that list.

Miller is averaging 15 pts 4.5 reb 7.0 ast in Feb along with only 1.6 turnovers. He's finally getting the minutes he deserves in Portland.

And he is a proven, VERY quality point guard. Collison's a nice talent, but YOU'RE kidding yourself if you think Collison's 11 games (with no true scouting on him) and 4.5 TO's a game puts him above Andre Miller on the point guard ladder.

Vinny642
02-25-2010, 01:12 AM
CP>DWIll> everybody else

PatsSoxKnicks
02-25-2010, 01:19 AM
Tack on another game tonight of 22 pts and 9 assists. He's averaging 20.9 pts and 8.9 assists for the month of February. Your kidding if you have Andre Miller on that list.

Why? Miller's a very underrated PG. His PER this year is 17.89 (10th), career PER of 18.0, last 3 years average PER of about 18.2. His win shares are pretty decent too: not as much this year though.

Do you have any evidence as to why Miller is not on that list?

JNA17
02-25-2010, 01:20 AM
DWILL>CP3>Nash> everybody else

fixed

PatsSoxKnicks
02-25-2010, 01:21 AM
CP>DWIll> everybody else

Correction: CP3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone else

His PER is ridiculous and its way way better than all the other top PGs in the league. It's not his fault his team doesn't have the talent around him.

Vinny642
02-25-2010, 01:26 AM
fixed

lies!!!
:d

PatsSoxKnicks
02-25-2010, 01:27 AM
Collison's PER is 15.39, the turnovers are really hurting him, he's getting way too many. But he should improve as he gets more experience. His PER could be in the 20s in the next couple of seasons.

Tribe
02-25-2010, 01:28 AM
no way...he is face of franchise...why not keep both???

MacFitz92
02-25-2010, 01:50 AM
I can't believe you would even consider trading CP3.

PatsSoxKnicks
02-25-2010, 01:51 AM
To answer this question, Paul shouldn't be expendable but he'll be traded because the Hornets owner is cheap and wants to save money. He'll see Collison's production and think "let me save some money by trading my best player and with Collison we won't lose much". He's wrong though, you don't trade top 5 players like CP3.

Vinny642
02-25-2010, 01:58 AM
To answer this question, Paul shouldn't be expendable but he'll be traded because the Hornets owner is cheap and wants to save money. He'll see Collison's production and think "let me save some money by trading my best player and with Collison we won't lose much". He's wrong though, you don't trade top 5 players like CP3.

As cheap as he is he won trade CP because he knows CP gets people involved and in the seats.

jmtapia
02-25-2010, 04:27 AM
CP3 will never become expendable specially not for Collison....

drobe86
02-25-2010, 12:28 PM
How about Hell no!!! Collison is a walking turnover anyway.....

NANDOKNICK
02-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Why would Knicks want someone with Good Legs,,,,
I see...Trade Walker for Chris Paul.