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View Full Version : Is Dirk the greatest european player to ever play in the NBA?



Famous6
02-20-2010, 02:34 PM
IMO he is, what do you guys think

( this is my first thread, go easy on me)

GOON MUSIC
02-20-2010, 02:37 PM
heck yeah

GoNY
02-20-2010, 02:40 PM
Yeah, it's not even close.

I do think if Sabonis came over earlier he would be right up there. Petrovic too if he didn't pass away so soon. But neither happened so Dirk is the man.

wadecounty305
02-20-2010, 02:42 PM
ginobili

BigEric
02-20-2010, 02:49 PM
Ginobili isn't European or better than Dirk, lol.

LeBroom
02-20-2010, 02:50 PM
1.) Dirk Nowitzki
2.) Peja Stojakovic
3.) Drazen Petrovic

Bucsfan
02-20-2010, 02:51 PM
lol manu is from argentina.....unless you think thats in europe

in all seriousness though darko is way better than dirk, he just hasnt gotten to showcase his skills yet...........

OrderOfCook
02-20-2010, 02:54 PM
Dirk has had the best NBA career of any Euro player, but Sabonis was the best player from Europe to ever play in the NBA (sadly those NBA days weren't his best). Sabonis may very well be one of the best big men in the history of the game, in the conversation with all the usual suspects. Great hands, amazing passer, great outside shot and all of that is secondary to his crazy, crazy good post-play.

IversonIsKrazy
02-20-2010, 02:58 PM
for sure. He might be the best international player of all-time.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-20-2010, 03:00 PM
for sure. He might be the best international player of all-time.

What about Hakeem?

Or Nash?

ugafan
02-20-2010, 03:04 PM
What about Hakeem?

Or Nash?

I think Dirk is better than Nash, though you have a case with Hakeem.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-20-2010, 03:04 PM
ginobili

FAIL of the Year!:facepalm:

Raps18-19 Champ
02-20-2010, 03:11 PM
I think Dirk is better than Nash, though you have a case with Hakeem.

Hakeem is considered to be a top 15 player of all time.

And if you consider Duncan international, you can make a case for him too.

TheKing23
02-20-2010, 03:15 PM
Hellcrooner to argue for Pau Gasol in 5...4...3...2...

Boston Fanatic
02-20-2010, 03:15 PM
FAIL of the Year!:facepalm:

tsk who cares obviously ginobili looks european obviously he is not but also its not a big deal i challenge anyone to name every european country and every south american country without help from the internet or an encyclopedia or any other sort



and yes dirk is the best european player if he one a title it wouldnt be a discussion i feel like

goose15
02-20-2010, 03:16 PM
Yes Dirk is the best euro ever.

Drazen Petrovic (???) Could have been better.

bahama0811
02-20-2010, 03:20 PM
I think it's easily Dirk.

momoneyyyy
02-20-2010, 03:21 PM
yes he is but a ring would make him even greater

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 03:27 PM
NO.

But i wont care to discuss about it since everybody seems to be blinded by the scoring and ignoring everything bout defense, rebounding, passing, court vision, team play etc etc etc etc etc etc.

He is nor even top 3 in realtion to players that did play in Nba and not even top 10 in european players ever.

Finley, allstar, Nash two times Mvp, Kidd allstar and HOF lock, Stackhouse Allster, Jamsion, Allstar, Walker Allstar , Devin Harris Allstar

Rings? 0

upset by eight seed? YES

He should be Ashamed.

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 03:28 PM
1 PETROVIC
2 GASOL
3SABONIS

if you were wodnering.

Mavrix
02-20-2010, 03:31 PM
This forum is filled with idiotic threads asking idiotic quesions.

cheezinmypocket
02-20-2010, 03:35 PM
tsk who cares obviously ginobili looks european obviously he is not but also its not a big deal i challenge anyone to name every european country and every south american country without help from the internet or an encyclopedia or any other sort



and yes dirk is the best european player if he one a title it wouldnt be a discussion i feel like

Argentina is obviously not in Europe so dude called him out on it.

I'm not surprised that you are defending the guy though since you don't know the difference between won and one.

Blackjack24
02-20-2010, 03:38 PM
Interesting thought. He's the first in recent memory to be able to carry a team by himself, but not good enough for the ring. Probably the best right now, though the bar is low enough that if nothing changes, he'll be passed in the future, several times.

cmellofan15
02-20-2010, 03:49 PM
those posts by 'crooner were soooo predictable. Dirk is obviously the best, he's won the highest achievement as an individual, the MVP. And to say were blind-sighted by scoring is being hypocrite since all Petrovic had was his scoring. Dirk is a better defender than credited for and Petrovic's D wasn't better than Dirk's. To say Gasol is number 2 is hilarious. Dirk has been better than Pau every year that Pau has been in the league! To bring up one of the oldest arguments, rings aren't a measure of individual greatness. If this was true Robert Horry would be one of the greatest players of all time. In all honesty I'd take Tony Parker of Pau on this list.

Jack of Blades
02-20-2010, 03:50 PM
1 PETROVIC
2 GASOL
3SABONIS

if you were wodnering.

This is a joke right?

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 03:50 PM
Interesting thought. He's the first in recent memory to be able to carry a team by himself, but not good enough for the ring. Probably the best right now, though the bar is low enough that if nothing changes, he'll be passed in the future, several times.

o yeah is so hard to carry a bunch of Allstars to some second rounds and one finals where you choked :rolleyes:


Now tell me?

Nash or Jason Williams?

Old Kidd or Old Damon Stoudamire?

Prime Stackhouse or Mike MIller?

Prime FInley or Shane BAttier?

Prime Antnie Walker or James Posey?


Antawn Jamison or Stromilw Swift?


Josh Howard or Bonzi Wells?

Brendan Haywood or Lorenzen Wright?

Eric Dampier or TOny Massenburg?


So what is more Carrying a team? taking the first group to some second rounders and one final AND LOSING TO AN 8th seeed

or carryng group b of SHEER TRASH to 50 wins seasons?

The_Pharouh
02-20-2010, 03:54 PM
FAIL of the Year!:facepalm:

well Manu also have an Italian passport+many from Argentina is from Italian origin he can make his case :D
forget about it he was stupid to post that LOL

Hakeem is considered to be a top 15 player of all time.
And if you consider Duncan international, you can make a case for him too.

Well he has played in College and played for USA right?you can make a case for Hakeem not being an international player


Hellcrooner to argue for Pau Gasol in 5...4...3...2...
LMFAO
I thought he will be more clever and wouldn't say that

Meth
02-20-2010, 03:57 PM
Dirk is the greatest Euro player.. for now.

Verbal Christ
02-20-2010, 03:59 PM
petrovic

sep11ie
02-20-2010, 04:02 PM
Are y'all forgetting Vlade Divac???

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 04:05 PM
Btw Pau SHows his hands with a ring a world cup an euro championship an spanish league an olympic silver, an european silver and some mvps on fiba level to the 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS at any level Dirk.


and better dont get in Petrovics and Sabonis international resumes.

Jack of Blades
02-20-2010, 04:06 PM
Btw Pau SHows his hands with a ring a world cup an euro championship an spanish league an olympic silver, an european silver and some mvps on fiba level to the 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS at any level Dirk.


and better dont get in Petrovics and Sabonis international resumes.

I'll use the age old analogy here: according to your logic, you're saying that Trent Dilfer is better then Dan Marino :laugh:

ChaseMe
02-20-2010, 04:07 PM
Two words, The Rasho. In Yugoslavia, it means the ****.

willie84
02-20-2010, 04:08 PM
Gheorghe Muresan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9uaDiRlLBQ

Young2Kinsler
02-20-2010, 04:08 PM
NO.

But i wont care to discuss about it since everybody seems to be blinded by the scoring and ignoring everything bout defense, rebounding, passing, court vision, team play etc etc etc etc etc etc.

He is nor even top 3 in realtion to players that did play in Nba and not even top 10 in european players ever.

Finley, allstar, Nash two times Mvp, Kidd allstar and HOF lock, Stackhouse Allster, Jamsion, Allstar, Walker Allstar , Devin Harris Allstar

Rings? 0

upset by eight seed? YES

He should be Ashamed.

Dude you are not only being ignorant and completely biased, but also showing your general lack of knowledge when it comes to basketball. Yes Dirk has never been the greatest defender, I'll give you that, but to knock him on things such as passing, court vision, rebounding and such is just stupid. You can make arguments for other guys, I'm not talking about that, but the general lack of respect or appreciation for some one so great as Dirk is being blindly biased.

The simple fact is Gasol can't sniff Dirks jock on his greatest day EVER

Famous6
02-20-2010, 04:09 PM
you cant compare the spanish national team to germany's

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 04:09 PM
oh and yeah do you know who EUROPEAN people has voted back to back the last twoyears as best EUropean player?


Heh.


No americans should be allowed in this topic.
Your mindset is completley differente about what to value in a player.

As in Alllen iverson is/was better tan Jason Kidd (typical american).

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 04:11 PM
you cant compare the spanish national team to germany's

Oh but you can compare last ten years MAVS with last team Yearss Memphis Pooh Poohs?

Isnt it? :mad:

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 04:14 PM
Anyway this Discussion will be nothing in 4 or 5 years once Damir MIrotic and Ricky Rubio are in teh league,

DC Dynasty
02-20-2010, 04:15 PM
I'd say Dirk, but Sabonis should be in this conversation. We'll never know how truly special he could've been considering he was a rookie at the age of 31 and was still great on both sides of the ball. Only if the former Soviet Union didn't hold him back from joining the NBA when he was drafted more than 10 years before his NBA debut.

cmellofan15
02-20-2010, 04:17 PM
Btw Pau SHows his hands with a ring a world cup an euro championship an spanish league an olympic silver, an european silver and some mvps on fiba level to the 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS at any level Dirk.


and better dont get in Petrovics and Sabonis international resumes.

woah! he won in a world cup and euro championship?! and a ring?!

Look at Robert Horry's resume

HS Player of the Year in Alabama
3x SEC Title in College
7x NBA Champion on 3 different teams!

He must be the one of the best players ever! He's been a winner on every level. He even won a writing competition in Middle School..

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 04:18 PM
I'd say Dirk, but Sabonis should be in this conversation. We'll never know how truly special he could've been considering he was a rookie at the age of 31 and was still great on both sides of the ball. Only if the former Soviet Union didn't hold him back from joining the NBA when he was drafted more than 10 years before his NBA debut.

if he had joined in 1988 and he never twisted his legs he would have been the second best center(skillwise) in the 90s after Hakeem and the third most dominant behind Hakeem and Shaq
And given Drexler was in Blazers i would even say Jordan would have only 3 or 4 rings.

DC Dynasty
02-20-2010, 04:22 PM
if he had joined in 1988 and he never twisted his legs he would have been the second best center(skillwise) in the 90s after Hakeem and the third most dominant behind Hakeem and Shaq
And given Drexler was in Blazers i would even say Jordan would have only 3 or 4 rings.

I would have to agree with you 100%

cmellofan15
02-20-2010, 04:23 PM
Anyway this Discussion will be nothing in 4 or 5 years once Damir MIrotic and Ricky Rubio are in teh league,

So in 4 years when Rubio is a second year player he'll be the best Euro of all time? You seriously need to shut the **** up.

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 04:23 PM
Another person im missing a lot in this conversation is TONI KUKOC:

He was a beast but he joined a team with Jordan and Pippen so he obviulsy never had the change to take that many shots or to lead anithyng.
When they left he was already too old to be a leader.

But ha he joine a lottery team when he arrived he coudl ahve been a 20+ ppg scorer and lead a franchsie to the playoffs.

cmellofan15
02-20-2010, 04:24 PM
Another person im missing a lot in this conversation is TONI KUKOC:

He was a beast but he joined a team with Jordan and Pippen so he obviulsy never had the change to take that many shots or to lead anithyng.
When they left he was already too old to be a leader.

But ha he joine a lottery team when he arrived he coudl ahve been a 20+ ppg scorer and lead a franchsie to the playoffs.

Another "coulda been" story...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-20-2010, 04:30 PM
This forum is filled with idiotic threads asking idiotic quesions.

Like Josh howard is better than Gasol?


Are y'all forgetting Vlade Divac???

Nope, he's the greatest flopper ever lived!

Young2Kinsler
02-20-2010, 04:30 PM
Oh but you can compare last ten years MAVS with last team Yearss Memphis Pooh Poohs?

Isnt it? :mad:

Dallas was trash when Dirk showed up, and he was the big piece that has made this franchise what it is today. Gasol couldn't carry anyone in Memphis and had to be traded to ride coat tails to his "ring"

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 04:32 PM
Dallas was trash when Dirk showed up, and he was the big piece that has made this franchise what it is today. Gasol couldn't carry anyone in Memphis and had to be traded to ride coat tails to his "ring"

you dont even deserve a response.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-20-2010, 04:32 PM
Dallas was trash when Dirk showed up, and he was the big piece that has made this franchise what it is today. Gasol couldn't carry anyone in Memphis and had to be traded to ride coat tails to his "ring"

Rings
Gasol 1
Dirk 0

AI4MVP
02-20-2010, 04:33 PM
the discussion will be over once RIcky Rubio comes over

Young2Kinsler
02-20-2010, 04:34 PM
Rings
Gasol 1
Dirk 0

I guess in flawed ignorant eyes this makes some sort of sense as an argument.

Young2Kinsler
02-20-2010, 04:35 PM
you dont even deserve a response.

Yet you did, like the rest of your posts... pointless.

td0tsfinest
02-20-2010, 04:36 PM
tsk who cares obviously ginobili looks european obviously he is not but also its not a big deal i challenge anyone to name every european country and every south american country without help from the internet or an encyclopedia or any other sort



and yes dirk is the best european player if he one a title it wouldnt be a discussion i feel like

Argentina is one of the biggest countries in the world. It's even bigger than europe as a whole.

Topic on Hand: Dirk is the greatest international offensive player to play the game. Though he does cater to the European stereotype, doesn't play defense and isn't a great rebounder for a big man.

ldc62
02-20-2010, 04:37 PM
Stats wise... maybe. But Drazen Petrovic is the best Euro to ever play IMO.

Famous6
02-20-2010, 04:39 PM
Argentina is one of the biggest countries in the world. It's even bigger than europe as a whole.


no, italy + france alone are bigger then argentina

magichatnumber9
02-20-2010, 04:39 PM
I go Dirk then Pau Gasol. Pau is a pretty good power forward.

J-Relo
02-20-2010, 04:43 PM
I agree, i go with Dirk

well, now it's an interesting situation... Gasol got the best european award this year, Dirk was second, but if we go who was better over the years - Dirk is the answer... Dirk is a better player even now, you could argue though... but didn't achieve anything really that spectacular on the national level, yes, his national team couldn't do much without him, but still...


and lets not forget historic players, especially those who didn't make a huge mark in the NBA, but carried their teams to some marvelous championships... there are few to remember, one of them is Sabonis... Arvydas Sabonis is definitely one of the best european players ever, maybe even the best... entered the league already past his prime, didn't make something amazing, but definitely made a mark... as my age can't give the knowledge to rate players from the old days, i pick who i am sure about...

SteveNash
02-20-2010, 05:15 PM
Yes Dirk is the best euro ever.

Drazen Petrovic (???) Could have been better.

Nope.


1 PETROVIC
2 GASOL
3SABONIS

if you were wodnering.

So where is Tony Parker?

J-Relo
02-20-2010, 05:17 PM
Nope.



So where is Tony Parker?

Tony Parker???... not top 5 for sure, maybe top 10...

SteveNash
02-20-2010, 05:23 PM
Tony Parker???... not top 5 for sure, maybe top 10...

Well Hellcrooner seems to care about winning and Parker is I believe the only European to ever win Finals MVP, one of two to ever win 3 championships.

FlakeyFool
02-20-2010, 05:26 PM
Hakeem

runforrestrunx9
02-20-2010, 05:31 PM
ginobili

lmao

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 05:32 PM
Is canada in europe? and Nigeria?

What are we talking bout?

Can you make a Lemon tree bring out Oranges?

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 05:34 PM
Nope.



So where is Tony Parker?

What has he led FRANCE to?

and as opposed to Dirk who can make a realistical excuse bout having no real help on national team.

France has.

Beabuois, Diaw, Turiaff, Petro, Now NOah, etc etc i think there are currently 12 French men in the Nba thats eve more players that spain has right now

J-Relo
02-20-2010, 05:43 PM
Well Hellcrooner seems to care about winning and Parker is I believe the only European to ever win Finals MVP, one of two to ever win 3 championships.

as far as title says it says -> Is Dirk the greatest european player to ever play in the NBA?

we are talking about EUROPEAN...
we are talking about EUROPEAN BASKETBALL PLAYER...
we are talking about EUROPEAN BASKETBALL PLAYER who has played in the NBA...

so playing in the NBA is just a thing that player has to have in the history of his career... one game, season, four, ten seasons - don't really matter... of course it counts too, so any accomplishments are good, winning NBA championship is great, but as far as I see Parkers biggest wins I see only SPURS...

also wasn't Ginobili ^ who was that lucky one?... PS: not european, the same with Nash...

jasondrobinson
02-20-2010, 05:48 PM
ginobili

awesome

td0tsfinest
02-20-2010, 05:49 PM
no, italy + france alone are bigger then argentina

Italy = 301, 338 km2
France = 674, 843 km2
total = 976, 181 km2

Argentina = 2, 766, 890 km2

SteveNash
02-20-2010, 05:52 PM
What has he led FRANCE to?

and as opposed to Dirk who can make a realistical excuse bout having no real help on national team.

France has.

Beabuois, Diaw, Turiaff, Petro, Now NOah, etc etc i think there are currently 12 French men in the Nba thats eve more players that spain has right now

What did Petrovic lead Croatia to? Silver medal? That's with Kukoc and Radja. Supposedly great players.


as far as title says it says -> Is Dirk the greatest european player to ever play in the NBA?

we are talking about EUROPEAN...
we are talking about EUROPEAN BASKETBALL PLAYER...
we are talking about EUROPEAN BASKETBALL PLAYER who has played in the NBA...

so playing in the NBA is just a thing that player has to have in the history of his career... one game, season, four, ten seasons - don't really matter... of course it counts too, so any accomplishments are good, winning NBA championship is great, but as far as I see Parkers biggest wins I see only SPURS...

also wasn't Ginobili ^ who was that lucky one?... PS: not european, the same with Nash...

Are you saying Parker isn't European because he's black?

effen5
02-20-2010, 05:57 PM
The waiter! Toni kukoc!!!!!

cmellofan15
02-20-2010, 05:59 PM
What has he led FRANCE to?

and as opposed to Dirk who can make a realistical excuse bout having no real help on national team.

France has.

Beabuois, Diaw, Turiaff, Petro, Now NOah, etc etc i think there are currently 12 French men in the Nba thats eve more players that spain has right now

NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT EUROPEAN TEAMS YOU DUMB***!

the title is "Is Dirk the greatest european player to ever play in the NBA?"

Does it say any thing about winning meaningless Championships over seas?
Does it say anything about the amount of players a country has in the NBA?

No. It's asking about the best Euro player to be in the NBA, which isn't a Spaniard like you'd like. He's German, and at a very close second is French man. I don't give a flying **** what they've done for their countries, it's about what they did in the NBA.

iggypop123
02-20-2010, 06:03 PM
europe= petrovic or sabonis in his prime( he wasnt allowed to come when he was good)

HammerHead1
02-20-2010, 06:04 PM
Not even close, one of the best shooters in the history of the game too, in my opinion.

Though, dont be sleeping on Goran Dragic...

:)

still1ballin
02-20-2010, 06:15 PM
ginobili

ginobili!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thedfactor
02-20-2010, 06:18 PM
Rings
Gasol 1
Dirk 0Ha, if only rings told the story...Dirk>>>Gasol. Kobe led that team, because Pau couldn't lead the Grizz anywhere. Dirk took a team to the Finals that started Terry, Adrian Griffin, Howard, himself, and Diop. Pau couldn't do more than get swept by that very same team...0-12 in his playoff appearances before heading to LA...yaaa he's got a ring, but he's not better than Dirk


Shout out to Drazen Petrovic, very honorable mention. Would have be a star.

shizzle09
02-20-2010, 06:23 PM
Is canada in europe? and Nigeria?

What are we talking bout?

Can you make a Lemon tree bring out Oranges?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-20-2010, 07:02 PM
What did Petrovic lead Croatia to? Silver medal? That's with Kukoc and Radja. Supposedly great players.



Are you saying Parker isn't European because he's black?

He aint black, he looks more like a brown!

0nekhmer
02-20-2010, 07:19 PM
Andrea Bargnani

Jaji
02-20-2010, 08:22 PM
Ricky Rubio

/thread

Jaji
02-20-2010, 08:24 PM
What did Petrovic lead Croatia to? Silver medal? That's with Kukoc and Radja. Supposedly great players.



Are you saying Parker isn't European because he's black?

I'm pretty sure he was referring to Ginobili.

drobe86
02-20-2010, 08:31 PM
you damn right Dirk is the greatest Euro player. And by a longshot....

Swashcuff
02-20-2010, 08:36 PM
Hellcrooner is hands down the most Bias and Hatefull poster I have seen on this forum. Saying Dirk isn't the greatest is one thing but speaking of him like he is some scrub is one of the most ignorant things i have ever witnessed.

Dirk is a stud. Best European player ever to play in the NBA.

Swashcuff
02-20-2010, 08:42 PM
Yet you did, like the rest of your posts... pointless.

:clap::clap::clap:

Jaji
02-20-2010, 08:43 PM
Technically, Arvydas Sabonis is but he didn't join the NBA until he was 31. They were both NBA players. Sabonis was better even, he just happened to spend his youth over in the Soviet Union. Damn commy bastards :mad:.

Jaji
02-20-2010, 08:45 PM
Arvydas Sabonis = 7'-3", 292 pound version of Dirk Nowitzki. You do the math.

Swashcuff
02-20-2010, 08:46 PM
NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT EUROPEAN TEAMS YOU DUMB***!

the title is "Is Dirk the greatest european player to ever play in the NBA?"

Does it say any thing about winning meaningless Championships over seas?
Does it say anything about the amount of players a country has in the NBA?

No. It's asking about the best Euro player to be in the NBA, which isn't a Spaniard like you'd like. He's German, and at a very close second is French man. I don't give a flying **** what they've done for their countries, it's about what they did in the NBA.

Nuff said.

Swashcuff
02-20-2010, 08:49 PM
As great and as DOMINANT Sobonis while playing in Europe what is there to say that his European success would have translated into NBA dominance. Some posters speak as if the Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq etc weren't in the league for him to play against.

Yes he was great but that was in Europe. We are talking about the NBA the highest level basketball with the best players and the best teams in the WORLD.

FUKudomeYOMOMMA
02-20-2010, 08:53 PM
this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C_0RHSOTHI

Jaji
02-20-2010, 09:00 PM
As great and as DOMINANT Sobonis while playing in Europe what is there to say that his European success would have translated into NBA dominance. Some posters speak as if the Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq etc weren't in the league for him to play against.

Yes he was great but that was in Europe. We are talking about the NBA the highest level basketball with the best players and the best teams in the WORLD.

I'm talking about the things he did in the NBA. Best passing big man ever, 3 point range, hook shots... now imagine if he could still jump.

avrpatsfan
02-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Ginobili isn't European or better than Dirk, lol.

Haha this

PatsSoxKnicks
02-20-2010, 09:02 PM
Lakers fans for Pau Gasol lol

stawka
02-20-2010, 09:16 PM
Hellcrooner to argue for Pau Gasol in 5...4...3...2...

NO.

But i wont care to discuss about it since everybody seems to be blinded by the scoring and ignoring everything bout defense, rebounding, passing, court vision, team play etc etc etc etc etc etc.

He is nor even top 3 in realtion to players that did play in Nba and not even top 10 in european players ever.

Finley, allstar, Nash two times Mvp, Kidd allstar and HOF lock, Stackhouse Allster, Jamsion, Allstar, Walker Allstar , Devin Harris Allstar

Rings? 0

upset by eight seed? YES

He should be Ashamed.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :facepalm:

Swashcuff
02-20-2010, 09:16 PM
I'm talking about the things he did in the NBA. Best passing big man ever, 3 point range, hook shots... now imagine if he could still jump.

Your point on best passing big man ever while debatable is a a good one. His 3 ball was not as good as Dirk's and banging up against the great bigs in the nba may have negating the strength of his hook.

I agree that he was great in Europe but who is to say that his European greatness would have been the same in the NBA. In Europe he played less games against lesser opponents and on a smaller stage. I saw him at around 20 and 10 which is great.

My point is some posters (Hellcrooner) are acting as if he was one of the top five Bigs to ever hold a basketball.

Jaji
02-20-2010, 09:23 PM
Your point on best passing big man ever while debatable is a a good one. His 3 ball was not as good as Dirk's and banging up against the great bigs in the nba may have negating the strength of his hook.

I agree that he was great in Europe but who is to say that his European greatness would have been the same in the NBA. In Europe he played less games against lesser opponents and on a smaller stage. I saw him at around 20 and 10 which is great.

My point is some posters (Hellcrooner) are acting as if he was one of the top five Bigs to ever hold a basketball.

As far as I'm concerned the only thing that kept him from being a perennial All Star was his age. He still schooled people in the NBA despite the fact that he could no longer run or jump. Seeing what he could do as a flat footed dinosaur makes me drool over what he would have done as an agile young man.

Swashcuff
02-20-2010, 09:28 PM
As far as I'm concerned the only thing that kept him from being a perennial All Star was his age. He still schooled people in the NBA despite the fact that he could no longer run or jump. Seeing what he could do as a flat footed dinosaur makes me drool over what he would have done as an agile young man.

Agreed. Its just my humble opinion that he was overrated. Very good while still in the league but people acted as if his skill set and his European success meant he was the next great thing.

Legitimate
02-20-2010, 09:29 PM
bargnani..will be the best european to ever play in the nba.

bigsams50
02-20-2010, 09:30 PM
Pau Gasol 1 time all NBA 3rd team


Dirk Nowitzki - 4x All NBA 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team
2x All NBA 3rd Team
1x NBA MVP



Dirk in a landslide

Ray_R
02-20-2010, 09:31 PM
Pau Gasol 1 time all NBA 3rd team


Dirk Nowitzki - 4x All NBA 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team
2x All NBA 3rd Team
1x NBA MVP



Dirk in a landslide

Dirk

Hawkeye15
02-20-2010, 09:49 PM
He has the best NBA career for any european to play, yes.

Rodgers4Pres
02-20-2010, 10:02 PM
i guess well have to see this year in the WCF when there matched up eh

Hawkeye15
02-20-2010, 10:10 PM
Gasol's NBA career, individually, will never match Dirk's people. Dirk is clearly the best international player in regards to NBA career. Its not even close actually.
Now, if you want to add in international success, then we have an argument, for sure.

Hellcrooner
02-20-2010, 10:42 PM
all i know bout sabonis is when he was healthy he SCHOOLED Mr Admiral .and forced usa tem to start to use Nba layers for olumpics and world cup
Enough Said

Young2Kinsler
02-20-2010, 10:44 PM
Enough said from you would be never speaking.

JNA17
02-20-2010, 10:45 PM
dirk is from germany....

Hawkeye15
02-20-2010, 11:15 PM
all i know bout sabonis is when he was healthy he SCHOOLED Mr Admiral .and forced usa tem to start to use Nba layers for olumpics and world cup
Enough Said

all I know is by the age Sabonis came over to the NBA, Dirk will have put up over 22,000 points, multiple all NBA teams, and an MVP
nuff said.

Swashcuff
02-20-2010, 11:22 PM
all I know is by the age Sabonis came over to the NBA, Dirk will have put up over 22,000 points, multiple all NBA teams, and an MVP
nuff said.

:clap:

SteveNash
02-21-2010, 01:17 AM
I'm pretty sure he was referring to Ginobili.

But I never claimed Ginobili was European :/.


Arvydas Sabonis = 7'-3", 292 pound version of Dirk Nowitzki. You do the math.

Nowhere close to Dirk's game. And Sabonis was a probably a steroid user.


all i know bout sabonis is when he was healthy he SCHOOLED Mr Admiral .and forced usa tem to start to use Nba layers for olumpics and world cup
Enough Said

Sabonis dunked on Robinson a couple times, certainly didn't school Robinson. And we lost because Danny Manning sucked getting into foul trouble by biased referees.

69centers
02-21-2010, 01:40 AM
Drazen was a better shooter than Dirk. Overall player is hard to compare, as they played different positions.

Gibby23
02-21-2010, 01:41 AM
It's Rondo.

Hawkeye15
02-21-2010, 01:44 AM
Drazen was a better shooter than Dirk. Overall player is hard to compare, as they played different positions.

Drazen died in his prime though. Dirk will have him on awards, and statistics alone, easily. And I am basing this off NBA careers.

69centers
02-21-2010, 01:57 AM
The thread question is if Dirk is the best European player to ever play in the NBA. Technically, it didn't say best NBA career, it said "ever play".

Talent wise, there is a strong argument for Sabonis and Petrovic, based on their abilities as basketball players. Obviously, Dirk has had a 10x better career than either one, and if the question was has he had the best NBA career of any European player, the answer would be yes.

If you just ask if he's the best player to ever play, that means to me someone with better talent could have played in the NBA, even for less years or stats.

lovingTO
02-21-2010, 02:03 AM
andrea bargnani. fin.

Gibby23
02-21-2010, 02:03 AM
Pau Gasol did win the last 2 Euro MVP's and has more than Dirk.

Mavrix
02-21-2010, 02:29 AM
Pau Gasol did win the last 2 Euro MVP's and has more than Dirk.

What are you trying to say, Pau is better than Dirk?

LOL :facepalm:

Mavrix
02-21-2010, 02:35 AM
o yeah is so hard to carry a bunch of Allstars to some second rounds and one finals where you choked :rolleyes:


Now tell me?

Nash or Jason Williams?

Old Kidd or Old Damon Stoudamire?

Prime Stackhouse or Mike MIller?

Prime FInley or Shane BAttier?

Prime Antnie Walker or James Posey?


Antawn Jamison or Stromilw Swift?


Josh Howard or Bonzi Wells?

Brendan Haywood or Lorenzen Wright?

Eric Dampier or TOny Massenburg?


So what is more Carrying a team? taking the first group to some second rounders and one final AND LOSING TO AN 8th seeed

or carryng group b of SHEER TRASH to 50 wins seasons?

You need to quit while you're down.

Dirk took this starting line up to the finals:

Desagna Diop
Josh Howard
Adrian Griffin
Jason Terry

6th man Stackhouse

compare that to the teams of today.

jmtapia
02-21-2010, 02:41 AM
Dirk with Gasol behind him..

Hellcrooner
02-21-2010, 04:01 AM
Im wodnering what are people thoughts on

RIkC SMITS

DETLEFT SCHREMPF.

doriandodo
02-21-2010, 05:36 AM
1)Dirk Nowitzki
2)Drazen Petrovic
3)Arvydas Sabonis
4)Pau Gasol

rabueed
02-21-2010, 07:21 AM
What are you trying to say, Pau is better than Dirk?

LOL :facepalm:

see, no can take your opinion, you think Josh Howard is offensively better than Pau Gasol. You're heavily biased towards your team.

that said, I would have to say Dirk has the edge at the moment. Still, Pau is catching up and isn't he 2 years younger than Dirk? 2 euro MVPs, led his euro team to multiple medals, led a horrible Memphis team to 50+ wins, and he plays a huge role on a championship team in LA.

and btw, to whoever was using the BS argument that rings don't matter, they are ********. You are saying that if we judge rings, Horry would be great since he has 7 rings? what people never take into account is how valuable you were to a team. Horry was valuable, but was never one of the top 5 players on any of his teams. If a player contributes heavily towards the ring, then it should determine value on their resume.

I mean, come on, is Adam Morrison better than Karl Malone? no, it's all about your value to the team, and if it's heavy, then the count of rings have meaning.

JayW_1023
02-21-2010, 08:39 AM
Though Gasol and Parker are close...no player has a better argument than Dirk. The past two seasons he has prolly been the best PF in the league.

J-Relo
02-21-2010, 08:44 AM
NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT EUROPEAN TEAMS YOU DUMB***!

the title is "Is Dirk the greatest european player to ever play in the NBA?"

Does it say any thing about winning meaningless Championships over seas?
Does it say anything about the amount of players a country has in the NBA?

No. It's asking about the best Euro player to be in the NBA, which isn't a Spaniard like you'd like. He's German, and at a very close second is French man. I don't give a flying **** what they've done for their countries, it's about what they did in the NBA.

it's both what they have done here and there... :facepalm:

J-Relo
02-21-2010, 08:46 AM
The thread question is if Dirk is the best European player to ever play in the NBA. Technically, it didn't say best NBA career, it said "ever play".

Talent wise, there is a strong argument for Sabonis and Petrovic, based on their abilities as basketball players. Obviously, Dirk has had a 10x better career than either one, and if the question was has he had the best NBA career of any European player, the answer would be yes.

If you just ask if he's the best player to ever play, that means to me someone with better talent could have played in the NBA, even for less years or stats.

perfectly said.

drobe86
02-21-2010, 11:49 AM
Lol... Anybody who says Gasol over Dirk is a complete moron. Gasol was an ok player for Grizz before he went to the lakers and got more hype. He still gives you 19 and 8 or 9 but nothing spectacular. It's not hard to play well with Kobe, I mean seriously he's playin with one of the top 5 players in NBA history. Gasol is a solid player no doubt, but nowhere near the level of Dirk Nowitzki and honestly, Gasol would tell you that.....

Hellcrooner
02-21-2010, 12:04 PM
^typical ignorant statemente of someone that does not go beyond stats.

Jack of Blades
02-21-2010, 12:43 PM
^typical ignorant statemente of someone that does not go beyond stats.

Typical ignorant fallback for someone who knows they're wrong but won't admit it.

P.S. learn how to spell lol.

Jaji
02-21-2010, 01:22 PM
But I never claimed Ginobili was European :/.

You're obviously confused so I'll help you out. See if you can follow along....

J-Relo said...

as far as title says it says -> Is Dirk the greatest european player to ever play in the NBA?

we are talking about EUROPEAN...
we are talking about EUROPEAN BASKETBALL PLAYER...
we are talking about EUROPEAN BASKETBALL PLAYER who has played in the NBA...

so playing in the NBA is just a thing that player has to have in the history of his career... one game, season, four, ten seasons - don't really matter... of course it counts too, so any accomplishments are good, winning NBA championship is great, but as far as I see Parkers biggest wins I see only SPURS...

also wasn't Ginobili ^ who was that lucky one?... PS: not european, the same with Nash...

And then you said...

Are you saying Parker isn't European because he's black?

Clearly he was talking about Ginobili and not Tony Parker. Get it? Got it? Good.

Jaji
02-21-2010, 01:25 PM
Nowhere close to Dirk's game. And Sabonis was a probably a steroid user.

Sabonis could do everything Dirk can do plus, post and pass. He was the best passing big man I've ever seen. Behind the back passes, no looks... he was like Magic Johnson distributing the rock. He had 3 point range just like Dirk.

There is no question Dirk has had a better NBA career. Sabonis didn't get to the NBA until he was 31 and already in decline. But if we're talking about who has more skill, I'd say Sabonis. Had he joined the NBA at 22 there's no telling what he would have done.

Saying he was on steroids is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. You pulled that straight outta your :moon:.

still1ballin
02-21-2010, 03:53 PM
ginobili is the best......ask charles

/thread

tdunk21
02-21-2010, 05:16 PM
how could u say "greatest" when he has'nt achieved anything but one MVP??

Hellcrooner
02-21-2010, 05:25 PM
Typical ignorant fallback for someone who knows they're wrong but won't admit it.

P.S. learn how to spell lol.
Learn spanish and lets see how you spell.

bigsams50
02-21-2010, 05:26 PM
Learn spanish and lets see how you spell.

I gotta agree, learning a second language is hard. I speak fluently in both Greek and English, but when i write Greek sometimes my grammar's off

Young2Kinsler
02-21-2010, 06:11 PM
how could u say "greatest" when he has'nt achieved anything but one MVP??

You are so right, his career has just been crap outside of that one season. You are only a successful athlete if you win the title and MVP every season. How stupid of us to forget.

Swashcuff
02-21-2010, 06:22 PM
how could u say "greatest" when he has'nt achieved anything but one MVP??

you got to be joking

mikantsass
02-21-2010, 06:48 PM
I personally hate Dirk, but he clearly is the best Euro to play in the NBA

still1ballin
02-22-2010, 12:54 AM
Learn spanish and lets see how you spell.

oyeeee!! que bola arsere

PatsSoxKnicks
02-22-2010, 01:09 AM
^typical ignorant statemente of someone that does not go beyond stats.

Says the Laker fan who is from Gasol's home country.......Objectivity can be useful, you should try using it, instead of staring at your computer every night looking at Gasol's picture and doing well you know what.

SteveNash
02-22-2010, 01:18 AM
You're obviously confused so I'll help you out. See if you can follow along....

J-Relo said...

And then you said...

Clearly he was talking about Ginobili and not Tony Parker. Get it? Got it? Good.

He responded to this post:

"Well Hellcrooner seems to care about winning and Parker is I believe the only European to ever win Finals MVP, one of two to ever win 3 championships."

Where does Ginobili fit into that?


Sabonis could do everything Dirk can do plus, post and pass. He was the best passing big man I've ever seen. Behind the back passes, no looks... he was like Magic Johnson distributing the rock. He had 3 point range just like Dirk.

There is no question Dirk has had a better NBA career. Sabonis didn't get to the NBA until he was 31 and already in decline. But if we're talking about who has more skill, I'd say Sabonis. Had he joined the NBA at 22 there's no telling what he would have done.

Saying he was on steroids is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. You pulled that straight outta your :moon:.

Dirk and Sabonis games aren't really similar at all. Sabonis was no where near the shooter Dirk is. And no I didn't pull Sabonis on steroids out of my ***, it's been rumored for years.

Jaji
02-22-2010, 02:05 AM
He responded to this post:

"Well Hellcrooner seems to care about winning and Parker is I believe the only European to ever win Finals MVP, one of two to ever win 3 championships."

Where does Ginobili fit into that?

He said Parker has rings but that has more to do with the Spurs. Then he said, same can be said for Ginobili EVEN THOUGH HE ISN'T EUROPEAN.

Then you said "Tony Parker isn't European because he's black?" No, he wasn't talking about Parker not being European. He was talking about Ginobili.


Dirk and Sabonis games aren't really similar at all. Sabonis was no where near the shooter Dirk is. And no I didn't pull Sabonis on steroids out of my ***, it's been rumored for years.

No their games weren't similar but Sabonis could do anything Dirk can do which is basically shoot. Dirk couldn't post up like Sabonis or pass like Sabonis. Sabonis had more skills.

And the funny thing is I just googled "Sabonis steroids" and YOUR POST in THIS thread on this site was the 1st thing to pop up :laugh2:.

Spurred1
02-22-2010, 02:17 AM
Why are people mentioning Manu in this thread? He's not European-he wasn't born there or raised there. He's from Argentina, a country located in South America, not Europe.

SteveNash
02-22-2010, 02:55 AM
He said Parker has rings but that has more to do with the Spurs. Then he said, same can be said for Ginobili EVEN THOUGH HE ISN'T EUROPEAN.

Then you said "Tony Parker isn't European because he's black?" No, he wasn't talking about Parker not being European. He was talking about Ginobili.

He said:

"we are talking about EUROPEAN...
we are talking about EUROPEAN BASKETBALL PLAYER...
we are talking about EUROPEAN BASKETBALL PLAYER who has played in the NBA..."


No their games weren't similar but Sabonis could do anything Dirk can do which is basically shoot. Dirk couldn't post up like Sabonis or pass like Sabonis. Sabonis had more skills.

Body types are different, Dirk can't post up bigger players like Sabonis, Sabonis can't beat his man off the dribble then pull up for a silky smooth jumper.


And the funny thing is I just googled "Sabonis steroids" and YOUR POST in THIS thread on this site was the 1st thing to pop up :laugh2:.

Google Soviet steroid use, then google image before and after pictures of him and notice the change in body type and how big his head got.

valade16
02-22-2010, 03:49 AM
^typical ignorant statemente of someone that does not go beyond stats.

Your posts for Gasol are so biased in so many ways it's hard to decide where to begin.

First, you mention Gasol's Championship and Dirk's failed championship runs. I don't think I'm stretching reality any when I say:
Switch Gasol and Dirk on that Lakers team and they still win the Championship, easily. And switch Dirk and Gasol on either Dirk's 8th seed upset or his finals against the Heat and the Mavericks would've still lost.

I'd love to hear you argue that those scenarios would somehow be different.

Secondly, the Medals at the Olympics and the International Tournament success. Being in Spain I have a hard time believing your not aware of how utterly better the Spanish team is than the German team. Despite this handicap he led the German National team to Bronze in 2002 FIBA World Championships and Silver in the EuroBasket 2005. He was MVP of both Tournaments by the way. He was also FIBA Basketball player of the year in 2005 too...

Just as a frame of reference, Gasol only led the Grizzlies to a winning season in 3 of his 7 seasons with the team, including not having won any playoff games until he teamed with Kobe, Lamar Odom, and Andrew Bynum (you can imagine how hard it was at this point for him to enjoy playoff success). Another interesting point to note is that in 2005 he got destroyed 4-0 by the Mavericks team which was led by... DIRK NOWITZKI (also note that the "big 3 were broken up at this point).

As a matter of fact, Nowitzki's teams have won more games and have a better win/Lose Percentage than Pau Gasols do (and I'm including his Lakers time, though we can all agree, it's not his team at all).

Another cool stat? Dirk has won 9 playoff series while Gasol has only won 7. That's more...

Dirk is better, hands down, you wouldn't be arguing this if his name was Dirk Fernandez so please leave the non-bias threads to adults, thanks.

sciferguy
02-22-2010, 04:18 AM
Greatest Euro player in NBA is Dirk.
Greatest International player in NBA is Hakeem
Greatest Euro player of all-time is Sabonis

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 05:30 AM
Your posts for Gasol are so biased in so many ways it's hard to decide where to begin.

First, you mention Gasol's Championship and Dirk's failed championship runs. I don't think I'm stretching reality any when I say:

Switch Gasol and Dirk on that Lakers team and they still win the Championship, easily.FALSE let see how good does it make to dirks game to play with someone who does not let him touch the ball and how many time does the german wait before he explodes and everything collapses, not to mention the fact that DIRK cant play center to make up for the yearly 4 months bynum is out
And switch Dirk and Gasol on either Dirk's 8th seed upset or his finals against the Heat and the Mavericks would've still lost. THe upsetby the warrior NOWAY, losing against the heat? with the same refs? of course.:cool:

I'd love to hear you argue that those scenarios would somehow be different.
There you have it

Secondly, the Medals at the Olympics and the International Tournament success. Being in Spain I have a hard time believing your not aware of how utterly better the Spanish team is than the German team. Despite this handicap he led the German National team to Bronze in 2002 FIBA World Championships and Silver in the EuroBasket 2005. He was MVP of both Tournaments by the way. He was also FIBA Basketball player of the year in 2005 too...Put Michael Jordan in that Germany team and i assure yu they still would have some gold, the first medals pau won in teh first years of the century he had SIMILAR or worst help , only later he got some nba company

Just as a frame of reference, Gasol only led the Grizzlies to a winning season in 3 of his 7 seasons with the team, including not having won any playoff games until he teamed with Kobe, Lamar Odom, and Andrew Bynum (you can imagine how hard it was at this point for him to enjoy playoff success).

Jason williams!!!!, Stromille swifht!!!! vs Steve Nash and ichael FInaley Another interesting point to note is that in 2005 he got destroyed 4-0 by the Mavericks team which was led by... DIRK NOWITZKI Who had much better teamates than pau had and also teamates who feeded him the ball insted of shooting bricks.(also note that the "big 3 were broken up at this point).

As a matter of fact, Nowitzki's teams have won more games and have a better win/Lose Percentage than Pau Gasols do (and I'm including his Lakers time, though we can all agree, it's not his team at all)Not at all? did you miss this last few games when kobe was out? 4 wins 1 lose by small margin against CELTICS..

Another cool stat? Dirk has won 9 playoff series while Gasol has only won 7. That's more... Lol, wait until June

Dirk is better, hands down, you wouldn't be arguing this if his name was Dirk Fernandez so please leave the non-bias threads to adults, thanks.If i dont remind it bad at the begginging of the thread i mentioned PEtrovic and Sabonis above PAu none of them are spaniards.
.

J-Relo
02-22-2010, 09:35 AM
Greatest Euro player in NBA is Dirk.
Greatest International player in NBA is Hakeem
Greatest Euro player of all-time is Sabonis

:clap:

if we check the title, I believe, we should choose the last one.

JJ_JKidd
02-22-2010, 09:39 AM
The world hasnt even ended yet. So please homers, stop using the words "ALL-TIME."

KnicksorBust
02-22-2010, 09:42 AM
Greatest Euro player in NBA is Dirk.
Greatest International player in NBA is Hakeem
Greatest Euro player of all-time is Sabonis


I agree. This is a quality post.

MacFitz92
02-22-2010, 09:49 AM
Dirk will end up as the best PF of all time.

MacFitz92
02-22-2010, 09:51 AM
Greatest Euro player in NBA is Dirk.
Greatest International player in NBA is Hakeem
Greatest Euro player of all-time is Sabonis

Hmm, Dirk will end up being better than Hakeem. His career isn't even done yet.

J-Relo
02-22-2010, 11:30 AM
The world hasnt even ended yet. So please homers, stop using the words "ALL-TIME."

currently (all time from the beginning till now)... doh... :eyebrow:

td0tsfinest
02-22-2010, 11:57 AM
The world hasnt even ended yet. So please homers, stop using the words "ALL-TIME."

WTF :eyebrow:



Definition'

all-time (ôltm)
adj.
Exceeding all others up to the present time: an all-time speed skating record.

Knickrocketsfan
02-22-2010, 12:23 PM
yea so far he is....

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 01:34 PM
Dirk will end up as the best PF of all time.



Hmm, Dirk will end up being better than Hakeem. His career isn't even done yet.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

With these two statements you have lost all credibility you may have had in this argumen. Sigh!

GodsSon
02-22-2010, 01:36 PM
No...because Nikoloz Tskitishvili is the best Euro ever

Jaji
02-22-2010, 01:50 PM
Hmm, Dirk will end up being better than Hakeem. His career isn't even done yet.

:laugh2:

That's a joke. Are you kidding me? Olajuwon has over 25,000 points, nearly 14,000 rebounds, almost 4,000 blocks, over 3,000 assists, and better than 2,000 steals. Not to mention 2 titles, 2 Finals MVP's, an NBA MVP, 2 DPOY awards, and an Olympic gold medal. Come one, Olajuwon won MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP all in the same year! Don't let your homerism make you look foolish. Dirk is good, but that statement is ridiculous.

valade16
02-22-2010, 01:58 PM
[QUOTE=Hellcrooner;12389790]
FALSE let see how good does it make to dirks game to play with someone who does not let him touch the ball and how many time does the german wait before he explodes and everything collapses, not to mention the fact that DIRK cant play center to make up for the yearly 4 months bynum is out

Saying False emphatically doesn't make it true. You and Pau's Mother are the only two people on earth who think that a team of Kobe, Dirk, Odom, Ariza, Bynum, and Fisher wouldn't have won the Championship last year. What does it say when if the Lakers called the Mavericks and offered Pau for Dirk Cuban would laugh until the Lakers hungup but if it was the other way around the Lakers would accept in a heartbeat?

Put Michael Jordan in that Germany team and i assure yu they still would have some gold, the first medals pau won in teh first years of the century he had SIMILAR or worst help , only later he got some nba company

What does that say about the quality of the German National Team when the first person you thought of to get them a Gold was the Greatest Basketball Player ever?! And Pau didn't win his first Gold until 2006, when he had great help. In the early 2000s the only things he won were the under 18 Championship and the Spanish Cup, so he didn't win squat until he got great talent around him...

Jason williams!!!!, Stromille swifht!!!! vs Steve Nash and ichael FInaley. Who had much better teamates than pau had and also teamates who feeded him the ball insted of shooting bricks.(also note that the "big 3 were broken up at this point).

LOL, Did you not read what I said? STEVE NASH WASN'T ON THE MAVERICKS TEAM IN 2005, he was a Pheonix Sun!! Also, Michael Finley was waived in 2005 so he wasn't on that team either. You must be thinking about the big bad lineup of: Nowitzki, Dampier, Josh Howard, Jason Terry, a rookie Devin Harris, and Marquis Daniels... vs Gasol, Mike Miller, Eddie Jones, Shane Battier, and Bobby Jackson. If Gasol was as good as you say he is, he'd have won at LEAST 1 FRICKIN' GAME. Something he didn't do...

did you miss this last few games when kobe was out? 4 wins 1 lose by small margin against CELTICS..

Are you seriously suggesting that the Lakers are anything OTHER than Kobe's team? Yes, Gasol is their second best player, but to be the greatest European player ever you have to be the No. 1 Guy, you can't be a second fiddle and be the greatest at anything... Other than being the greatest second fiddle...

Lol, wait until June

Yep, June, the glorious time when Gasol can ride Kobe's coattails to yet more playoff success. You know what Gasol will never, ever, EVER do? Win a playoff GAME, let alone a series without Kobe. That's quite and accomplishment, don't ya think?
[QUOTE]

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 02:52 PM
*ok i thought i was talking to someone intellignet

i was wrong,

i guess you prefer alex english or soeone like that to second fiddle Pippen.

GodsSon
02-22-2010, 02:52 PM
[QUOTE=Hellcrooner;12389790]
FALSE let see how good does it make to dirks game to play with someone who does not let him touch the ball and how many time does the german wait before he explodes and everything collapses, not to mention the fact that DIRK cant play center to make up for the yearly 4 months bynum is out

Saying False emphatically doesn't make it true. You and Pau's Mother are the only two people on earth who think that a team of Kobe, Dirk, Odom, Ariza, Bynum, and Fisher wouldn't have won the Championship last year. What does it say when if the Lakers called the Mavericks and offered Pau for Dirk Cuban would laugh until the Lakers hungup but if it was the other way around the Lakers would accept in a heartbeat?

Put Michael Jordan in that Germany team and i assure yu they still would have some gold, the first medals pau won in teh first years of the century he had SIMILAR or worst help , only later he got some nba company

What does that say about the quality of the German National Team when the first person you thought of to get them a Gold was the Greatest Basketball Player ever?! And Pau didn't win his first Gold until 2006, when he had great help. In the early 2000s the only things he won were the under 18 Championship and the Spanish Cup, so he didn't win squat until he got great talent around him...

Jason williams!!!!, Stromille swifht!!!! vs Steve Nash and ichael FInaley. Who had much better teamates than pau had and also teamates who feeded him the ball insted of shooting bricks.(also note that the "big 3 were broken up at this point).

LOL, Did you not read what I said? STEVE NASH WASN'T ON THE MAVERICKS TEAM IN 2005, he was a Pheonix Sun!! Also, Michael Finley was waived in 2005 so he wasn't on that team either. You must be thinking about the big bad lineup of: Nowitzki, Dampier, Josh Howard, Jason Terry, a rookie Devin Harris, and Marquis Daniels... vs Gasol, Mike Miller, Eddie Jones, Shane Battier, and Bobby Jackson. If Gasol was as good as you say he is, he'd have won at LEAST 1 FRICKIN' GAME. Something he didn't do...

did you miss this last few games when kobe was out? 4 wins 1 lose by small margin against CELTICS..

Are you seriously suggesting that the Lakers are anything OTHER than Kobe's team? Yes, Gasol is their second best player, but to be the greatest European player ever you have to be the No. 1 Guy, you can't be a second fiddle and be the greatest at anything... Other than being the greatest second fiddle...

Lol, wait until June

Yep, June, the glorious time when Gasol can ride Kobe's coattails to yet more playoff success. You know what Gasol will never, ever, EVER do? Win a playoff GAME, let alone a series without Kobe. That's quite and accomplishment, don't ya think?


Ownage

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 03:10 PM
^ if you say so.......

im done disucussing with kids that all they care about is ScORING numbers and flash.

its ike spitting to the wind it will always come back to your face.

GodsSon
02-22-2010, 03:14 PM
^ if you say so.......

im done disucussing with kids that all they care about is ScORING numbers and flash.

its ike spitting to the wind it will always come back to your face.

Put it this way...Gasol might have had the better professional career, but Dirk is the better player IMO

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 03:16 PM
:laugh2:

That's a joke. Are you kidding me? Olajuwon has over 25,000 points, nearly 14,000 rebounds, almost 4,000 blocks, over 3,000 assists, and better than 2,000 steals. Not to mention 2 titles, 2 Finals MVP's, an NBA MVP, 2 DPOY awards, and an Olympic gold medal. Come one, Olajuwon won MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP all in the same year! Don't let your homerism make you look foolish. Dirk is good, but that statement is ridiculous.

Why did you bother??? He obviously was making a joke. Because no one in their right mind would seriously say something so ignorant.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
02-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Dirk the Clerk is the best Euro player everzzz

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 03:38 PM
[QUOTE=Hellcrooner;12389790]
FALSE let see how good does it make to dirks game to play with someone who does not let him touch the ball and how many time does the german wait before he explodes and everything collapses, not to mention the fact that DIRK cant play center to make up for the yearly 4 months bynum is out

Saying False emphatically doesn't make it true. You and Pau's Mother are the only two people on earth who think that a team of Kobe, Dirk, Odom, Ariza, Bynum, and Fisher wouldn't have won the Championship last year. What does it say when if the Lakers called the Mavericks and offered Pau for Dirk Cuban would laugh until the Lakers hungup but if it was the other way around the Lakers would accept in a heartbeat?

Put Michael Jordan in that Germany team and i assure yu they still would have some gold, the first medals pau won in teh first years of the century he had SIMILAR or worst help , only later he got some nba company

What does that say about the quality of the German National Team when the first person you thought of to get them a Gold was the Greatest Basketball Player ever?! And Pau didn't win his first Gold until 2006, when he had great help. In the early 2000s the only things he won were the under 18 Championship and the Spanish Cup, so he didn't win squat until he got great talent around him...

Jason williams!!!!, Stromille swifht!!!! vs Steve Nash and ichael FInaley. Who had much better teamates than pau had and also teamates who feeded him the ball insted of shooting bricks.(also note that the "big 3 were broken up at this point).

LOL, Did you not read what I said? STEVE NASH WASN'T ON THE MAVERICKS TEAM IN 2005, he was a Pheonix Sun!! Also, Michael Finley was waived in 2005 so he wasn't on that team either. You must be thinking about the big bad lineup of: Nowitzki, Dampier, Josh Howard, Jason Terry, a rookie Devin Harris, and Marquis Daniels... vs Gasol, Mike Miller, Eddie Jones, Shane Battier, and Bobby Jackson. If Gasol was as good as you say he is, he'd have won at LEAST 1 FRICKIN' GAME. Something he didn't do...

did you miss this last few games when kobe was out? 4 wins 1 lose by small margin against CELTICS..

Are you seriously suggesting that the Lakers are anything OTHER than Kobe's team? Yes, Gasol is their second best player, but to be the greatest European player ever you have to be the No. 1 Guy, you can't be a second fiddle and be the greatest at anything... Other than being the greatest second fiddle...

Lol, wait until June

Yep, June, the glorious time when Gasol can ride Kobe's coattails to yet more playoff success. You know what Gasol will never, ever, EVER do? Win a playoff GAME, let alone a series without Kobe. That's quite and accomplishment, don't ya think?
[QUOTE]

Nicely put. I must agree with the other poster. OWNAGE!

albertc86
02-22-2010, 03:39 PM
Yeah, it's not even close.

I do think if Sabonis came over earlier he would be right up there. Petrovic too if he didn't pass away so soon. But neither happened so Dirk is the man.

Exactly. Sabonis would've been a beast had he come to the NBA in his prime.

Dpop07
02-22-2010, 04:24 PM
^ if you say so.......

im done disucussing with kids that all they care about is ScORING numbers and flash.

its ike spitting to the wind it will always come back to your face.


Heed your own advice...you're the one spitting in the wind. NBA analysts have discussed this topic at length and Dirk is unanamous. When Pau even sniffs at an MVP award than you may have an argument

Jaji
02-22-2010, 04:26 PM
Yeah Dirk > Pau. That's not even a debate.

valade16
02-22-2010, 04:27 PM
Exactly. Sabonis would've been a beast had he come to the NBA in his prime.

I live in Portland and I got to see Sabonis play lots, he was freakin' amazing! He could shoot, post up, pass.

His only downside was he was slower than a turtle, basically like a building lol. I wish the Blazers could've had him when he was young...:(

J-Relo
02-22-2010, 04:41 PM
I live in Portland and I got to see Sabonis play lots, he was freakin' amazing! He could shoot, post up, pass.

His only downside was he was slower than a turtle, basically like a building lol. I wish the Blazers could've had him when he was young...:(

yes, the main thing that he couldn't show here everything he got, was one of the fastest bigmen too...

Jack Daniels
02-22-2010, 04:42 PM
Italy = 301, 338 km2
France = 674, 843 km2
total = 976, 181 km2

Argentina = 2, 766, 890 km2

Yeah I was crackin up at that comment too... someone must have been absent during every geography class....

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 04:49 PM
Yeah Dirk > Pau. That's not even a debate.

Lots of players are better than Gasol....

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 04:53 PM
Lots of players are better than Gasol....

1 Lebron
2 Kobe
3 C Paul
4 Tim Ducan

Thats it ( KG, Kidd, Nash WERE better but they are too old now)
( Kevin Durant, BRandon Roy, Dwigth(if he ever lerns to play) WILL BE Better at their prime)

J-Relo
02-22-2010, 04:54 PM
Yeah I was crackin up at that comment too... someone must have been absent during every geography class....

ok the question to you!>>> where is LITHUANIA?

what do you know about homeland of Sabonis, Ilgauskas? :cool:

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 04:54 PM
sory frgot WADE he is better too

J-Relo
02-22-2010, 04:56 PM
1 Lebron
2 Kobe
3 C Paul
4 Tim Ducan

Thats it ( KG, Kidd, Nash WERE better but they are too old now)
( Kevin Durant, BRandon Roy, Dwigth(if he ever lerns to play) WILL BE Better at their prime)

are you serious? ok whatever, coulnt' go without naming one 200% better - Wade...

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 04:57 PM
1 Lebron
2 Kobe
3 C Paul
4 Tim Ducan

Thats it ( KG, Kidd, Nash WERE better but they are too old now)
( Kevin Durant, BRandon Roy, Dwigth(if he ever lerns to play) WILL BE Better at their prime)

Lol Gasol is the 5th best player in the league? That is absolutely HALARIOUS!!!!!!

You just lost the very small amount of credibility you had.

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 04:58 PM
are you serious? ok whatever, coulnt' go without naming one 200% better - Wade...

i named wade later its obvious.

also i shoudl add SHAQ in the WERE better list of course.

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 04:59 PM
Lol Gasol is the 5th best player in the league? That is absolutely HALARIOUS!!!!!!

You just lost the very small amount of credibility you had.

6th i forgot wade.

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 05:00 PM
6th i forgot wade.

Wow. That is so stupid I dont even want to argue.

Bishnoff
02-22-2010, 05:01 PM
Dirk is the best.

Gotta give some credit to Tony Parker though. The guy was a machine when he was younger, has won 3 rings and the 06-07 Finals MVP.

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 05:01 PM
1 Lebron
2 Kobe
3 C Paul
4 Tim Ducan

Thats it ( KG, Kidd, Nash WERE better but they are too old now)
( Kevin Durant, BRandon Roy, Dwigth(if he ever lerns to play) WILL BE Better at their prime)

Hellcrooner c'mon seriously lets be adults about this and stop playing even YOU can't be this bias. 6th best player in the league. Pau Gasol is no more than a number 2 he can NEVER lead an NBA team to anything more than a first round knock out. He is a VERY good player and should be given alot of credit but 6th BEST PLAYER in the ENTIRE NBA. Sigh :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 05:04 PM
the good thing is people remembers who Worhty, Maurice cheeks and Joe Dumars are ( pippen too but it has not passed enough time for people to forget about other players of the era)
and they abrely rememebr who Gervin, English , Gilmore and etc were.


Ill be laughin last in 15 to 20 years.

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 05:06 PM
Hellcrooner c'mon seriously lets be adults about this and stop playing even YOU can't be this bias. 6th best player in the league. Pau Gasol is no more than a number 2 he can NEVER lead an NBA team to anything more than a first round knock out. He is a VERY good player and should be given alot of credit but 6th BEST PLAYER in the ENTIRE NBA. Sigh :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

players who have proved they can lead a team to the title.

Wade

Kobe

Duncan

Shaq (worn out)

thats it.

everybody else in the league has to prove they CAN lead a team to the title.

Otherwise they maybe beter join another star and be second fiddle and see if they can win the title.

btw i efinetly hink DIRK should wake up smell the coffe opt out and join Wade as sidekick to see if he can win ( a well deserved) ring.

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 05:07 PM
the good thing is people remembers who Worhty, Maurice cheeks and Joe Dumars are ( pippen too but it has not passed enough time for people to forget about other players of the era)
and they abrely rememebr who Gervin, English , Gilmore and etc were.


Ill be laughin last in 15 to 20 years.

Whats your point? Gervin, English, Gilmore were better players than Dumars, Mo Cheeks and Worthy were. Are you saying a player is automatically better if he is on a championship team? Like top 6 in the NBA?

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 05:11 PM
Whats your point? Gervin, English, Gilmore were better players than Dumars, Mo Cheeks and Worthy were. Are you saying a player is automatically better if he is on a championship team? Like top 6 in the NBA?

better than dumars and cheek posibly

better than Mchale or Worhty? Nope

if they had fallen somwhere else instead of celts and lakers with bird and parish or magic kareem they could have made incredible individual careers by themselves.

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 05:14 PM
players who have proved they can lead a team to the title.

Wade

Kobe

Duncan

Shaq (worn out)

thats it.

everybody else in the league has to prove they CAN lead a team to the title.

Otherwise they maybe beter join another star and be second fiddle and see if they can win the title.

btw i efinetly hink DIRK should wake up smell the coffe opt out and join Wade as sidekick to see if he can win ( a well deserved) ring.

Crooner there is 1 (ONE) championship and over 300 players NBA not everyone can and will. Your point is ignorant. Obviously every player can't lead a team to a championship. :facepalm: you are making yourself sound even more ignorant. Please stop making such a fool of yourself.

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 05:18 PM
better than dumars and cheek posibly

better than Mchale or Worhty? Nope

if they had fallen somwhere else instead of celts and lakers with bird and parish or magic kareem they could have made incredible individual careers by themselves.

Pau did fall somewhere else, and while there he was an average player on an average team.

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 05:38 PM
Pau did fall somewhere else, and while there he was an average player on an average team.

averqge palyer who lead a bunch of **** to the playoffs three times twice of them with 50 victorys.

average player that took a first round exit team with thebest player on it and wiht his additin ahs played one finals and won one ring.

valade16
02-22-2010, 06:00 PM
1 Lebron
2 Kobe
3 C Paul
4 Tim Ducan

Thats it ( KG, Kidd, Nash WERE better but they are too old now)
( Kevin Durant, BRandon Roy, Dwigth(if he ever lerns to play) WILL BE Better at their prime)

This is insane. You can't seriously think this.

Lets look at players who led their team to at least 1 postseason series win without Kobe:

Yao Ming
Carmelo Anthony
Joe Johnson
Kevin Garnett/Ray Allen/Paul Pierce (depends on who you think is the No. 1)
LeBron James
Dwight Howard
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Tim Duncan
Chauncey Billups
Steve Nash
Baron Davis
Ben Gordon/Kirk Hinrich/Loul Deng (whoever you think was No. 1)
Jason Kidd
Dwayne Wade
Elton Brand
Kevin Garnett (with the T-Wolves)
Peja Stojakovic
Jermaine O'Neal
Paul Pierce (with the Celtics pre-Garnett)
Allen Iverson
Shaquille O'Neal
Vince Carter
Ray Allen (with the Bucks)
Rasheed Wallace

Every single one of these players was (or arguably was) the Number 1 guy on their team and they took their team to the 2nd round of the playoffs...

But lets go a step further, lets look at players who took their team to the playoffs and won at least 1 GAME in the playoffs as the number 1 guy:

Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodala
Tracy McGrady
Antawn Jamison
Chris Bosh
Mike Bibby
Gilbert Arenas
Michael Redd

So that's 32 players that were able to do what Gasol couldn't as the Number 1 man on their team. Yet I'm supposed to believe he's the 6th best player in the league? No way.

If you took Gasol and put him on every NBA team, how many of them would make him their Number 1 option? I guarantee it's not 24...

valade16
02-22-2010, 06:05 PM
averqge palyer who lead a bunch of **** to the playoffs three times twice of them with 50 victorys.

average player that took a first round exit team with thebest player on it and wiht his additin ahs played one finals and won one ring.

He only once led them to 50 wins, the other two times he had 49 and 45 wins, and since he didn't win a single damn thing in the playoffs that's only one season with 50 wins...

Not to mention one of those series was against the (apparently) vastly inferior Dirk Nowitzki, who somehow managed to sweep the Godly talent that is Pau Gasol...

Face it, Nowitzki is better man.

Jack Daniels
02-22-2010, 06:12 PM
ok the question to you!>>> where is LITHUANIA?

what do you know about homeland of Sabonis, Ilgauskas? :cool:

The comment I was laughing about was the one that Italy and France are both bigger than Argentina. What does that have to do with Sabonis' and Ilgauskas' home of Lithuania. (Which technically is a Northern European country) Were you trying to one up me by claiming it was part of Russia? Hate to break it to you but the Soviet Union is no more. Take your sunglasses smiley and shove it up your :moon:

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 06:18 PM
This is insane. You can't seriously think this.

Lets look at players who led their team to at least 1 postseason series win without Kobe:

Yao Ming
Carmelo Anthony
Joe Johnson
Kevin Garnett/Ray Allen/Paul Pierce (depends on who you think is the No. 1)
LeBron James
Dwight Howard
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Tim Duncan
Chauncey Billups
Steve Nash
Baron Davis
Ben Gordon/Kirk Hinrich/Loul Deng (whoever you think was No. 1)
Jason Kidd
Dwayne Wade
Elton Brand
Kevin Garnett (with the T-Wolves)
Peja Stojakovic
Jermaine O'Neal
Paul Pierce (with the Celtics pre-Garnett)
Allen Iverson
Shaquille O'Neal
Vince Carter
Ray Allen (with the Bucks)
Rasheed Wallace

Every single one of these players was (or arguably was) the Number 1 guy on their team and they took their team to the 2nd round of the playoffs...

But lets go a step further, lets look at players who took their team to the playoffs and won at least 1 GAME in the playoffs as the number 1 guy:

Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodala
Tracy McGrady
Antawn Jamison
Chris Bosh
Mike Bibby
Gilbert Arenas
Michael Redd

So that's 32 players that were able to do what Gasol couldn't as the Number 1 man on their team. Yet I'm supposed to believe he's the 6th best player in the league? No way.

If you took Gasol and put him on every NBA team, how many of them would make him their Number 1 option? I guarantee it's not 24...

Good Post!

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 06:34 PM
averqge palyer who lead a bunch of **** to the playoffs three times twice of them with 50 victorys.

average player that took a first round exit team with thebest player on it and wiht his additin ahs played one finals and won one ring.

Dude face it, you are wrong and your arguments are not valid

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 06:35 PM
This is insane. You can't seriously think this.

Lets look at players who led their team to at least 1 postseason series win without Kobe:

Yao Ming
Carmelo Anthony
Joe Johnson
Kevin Garnett/Ray Allen/Paul Pierce (depends on who you think is the No. 1)
LeBron James
Dwight Howard
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Tim Duncan
Chauncey Billups
Steve Nash
Baron Davis
Ben Gordon/Kirk Hinrich/Loul Deng (whoever you think was No. 1)
Jason Kidd
Dwayne Wade
Elton Brand
Kevin Garnett (with the T-Wolves)
Peja Stojakovic
Jermaine O'Neal
Paul Pierce (with the Celtics pre-Garnett)
Allen Iverson
Shaquille O'Neal
Vince Carter
Ray Allen (with the Bucks)
Rasheed Wallace

Every single one of these players was (or arguably was) the Number 1 guy on their team and they took their team to the 2nd round of the playoffs...

But lets go a step further, lets look at players who took their team to the playoffs and won at least 1 GAME in the playoffs as the number 1 guy:

Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodala
Tracy McGrady
Antawn Jamison
Chris Bosh
Mike Bibby
Gilbert Arenas
Michael Redd

So that's 32 players that were able to do what Gasol couldn't as the Number 1 man on their team. Yet I'm supposed to believe he's the 6th best player in the league? No way.

If you took Gasol and put him on every NBA team, how many of them would make him their Number 1 option? I guarantee it's not 24...

Excellent post, helcrooner please read this

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 06:37 PM
dude face it if he wasnt from dirty spain sowmehre near mexico boh bohhh and he was a cool blodne blue eyed german you would hype him more.

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 06:39 PM
This is insane. You can't seriously think this.

Lets look at players who led their team to at least 1 postseason series win without Kobe:

Yao Ming
Carmelo Anthony
Joe Johnson
Kevin Garnett/Ray Allen/Paul Pierce (depends on who you think is the No. 1)
LeBron James
Dwight Howard
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Tim Duncan
Chauncey Billups
Steve Nash
Baron Davis
Ben Gordon/Kirk Hinrich/Loul Deng (whoever you think was No. 1)
Jason Kidd
Dwayne Wade
Elton Brand
Kevin Garnett (with the T-Wolves)
Peja Stojakovic
Jermaine O'Neal
Paul Pierce (with the Celtics pre-Garnett)
Allen Iverson
Shaquille O'Neal
Vince Carter
Ray Allen (with the Bucks)
Rasheed Wallace

Every single one of these players was (or arguably was) the Number 1 guy on their team and they took their team to the 2nd round of the playoffs...

But lets go a step further, lets look at players who took their team to the playoffs and won at least 1 GAME in the playoffs as the number 1 guy:

Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodala
Tracy McGrady
Antawn Jamison
Chris Bosh
Mike Bibby
Gilbert Arenas
Michael Redd

So that's 32 players that were able to do what Gasol couldn't as the Number 1 man on their team. Yet I'm supposed to believe he's the 6th best player in the league? No way.

If you took Gasol and put him on every NBA team, how many of them would make him their Number 1 option? I guarantee it's not 24...

TEAMS win games and series not Players.

Pau never had any relevant help.

all that , team only wins because of their leader is:

1 very american*

2 completeley MORONIC

3 very popular nowdays with young people and people with low IQ

4 completely WRONG

* im not insulting americans wiht this, im jsut stating the fact that the way americans and europeans view/ understand Basketball is compeltely different.

mikantsass
02-22-2010, 06:43 PM
dude face it if he wasnt from dirty spain sowmehre near mexico boh bohhh and he was a cool blodne blue eyed german you would hype him more.

Not true, Dirk is one of my least favorite players in the NBA. Even though I hate the guy as a player, I can still recognize the guy's accomplishments and abilities.

And I think it is pretty obvious that noone agrees with your love fest for Gasol.

valade16
02-22-2010, 06:52 PM
TEAMS win games and series not Players.

Pau never had any relevant help.

all that , team only wins because of their leader is:

1 very american*

2 completeley MORONIC

3 very popular nowdays with young people and people with low IQ

4 completely WRONG

* im not insulting americans wiht this, im jsut stating the fact that the way americans and europeans view/ understand Basketball is compeltely different.

Never had any relevant help? Your saying of all those players and all those teams, Pau Gasol's Memphis Grizzlies were the absolute WORST team to make the playoffs??

I don't think so.

And I find it hilarious that you say Americans and Europeans view and understand basketball differently, while implying that Europeans understand it better. You guys are clearly operating on a higher plane of basketball knowledge than us ******** Americans, right?

America invented basketball man. Not to mention all the NBA coaches, scouts, analysts, etc. all agree Dirk is far superior to Pau. But I guess their moronic too right? :rolleyes:

What more can we say about it? You think we all love scoring and that's why we value Nowitzki more, but how can you explain these career averages?

8.9 Rebounds for Pau, 8.5 for Nowitzki.
3.2 Assists for Pau, 2.7 for Nowitzki.
.5 Steals for Pau, .9 for Nowitzki.
1.7 Blocks for Pau, 1.0 for Nowitzki.
2.4 Turnovers for Pau, 1.9 for Nowitzki.

I mean, if Pau Gasol is such a better all around player than Nowitzki and all Nowitzki can do is score then how come Pau isn't even better by 1.0 in ANY stat I listed than Nowitzki? Isn't that wierd?

Nowitzki's PER is 23.8, Pau's is 21.8. In fact Dirk led the ENTIRE league in PER in 2005 and 2006!

Nowitzki is a MORE EFFICIENT PLAYER than Pau. more efficient! Good God!!

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 06:59 PM
^ how about if you take those stats and use them per 48 minutes


also for the scoring make the maths to see how much would they score with a certain SaME amount of touches.


that just for fun.

stats are OVERATED and mean 0.

hte best things some players bring dont show on stats.

Like benefitinvg the flow of the game in the team.

bigsams50
02-22-2010, 07:04 PM
So youre saying Pau averages more Turnovers with less touches? huh

Jaji
02-22-2010, 07:07 PM
Hellcrooner is from SPAIN! Of course he's gonna think (or should I say convince himself) that Pau is the 6th best player in the NBA. Why even argue with the guy? He's clearly delusional. Maybe he has the corners of his eyes pulled back like the Spanish national team in that blatantly racist picture they took in Beijing and can't see the obvious truth :shrug:.

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 07:07 PM
Ok Hellcrooner I am NOT an American.

Truth be told I have a boat load of respect for your basketball KNOWLEDGE but your stance on Pau being better that Dirk is totally IGNORANT. With the Sabonis argument you had a valid point and it was debatable but this, this is utterly ridiculous and for lack of a better work HOMERISM to the highest extent. Pau Gasol 6th best player in the LEAGUE. Pau is top 20 at BEST. 6th? Sigh!

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 07:07 PM
So youre saying Pau averages more Turnovers with less touches? huh

who is getting you the ball?

mvp and hof Nahs and hof Kidd

or gambling chocolate williams and derecj fisher?

valade16
02-22-2010, 07:10 PM
^ how about if you take those stats and use them per 48 minutes


also for the scoring make the maths to see how much would they score with a certain SaME amount of touches.


that just for fun.

stats are OVERATED and mean 0.

hte best things some players bring dont show on stats.

Like benefitinvg the flow of the game in the team.


Are you kidding? PER is their efficiency rating, that means it wouldn't matter if they played 1000 minutes or 5, it measures their efficiency.

Stats must mean nothing, I mean when I bust out the stat that Gasol is 0 for 12 in playoff games as the main man it clearly means nothing to you.

I agree some of the best attributes don't show up on the stat board, but Nowitzki is good at those little things too. I mean, are you seriously suggesting that Nowitzki messed up the Mavericks team flow this whole time? I mean, he jacked their flow up so bad they went to the finals!

Also, I'd like to hear your response about the 32 players I listed that were able to take their teams farther than Gasol, why is that again? Oh yeah, because that Grizzlies team was apparently the worst playoff team in the history of the league. Gimme a break.

I hear Gasol spit out a piece of gum, go chew it for him...

valade16
02-22-2010, 07:16 PM
who is getting you the ball?

mvp and hof Nahs and hof Kidd

or gambling chocolate williams and derecj fisher?

Are you dense intentionally?

Yes, Nowitzki played with Both Nash and Kidd (though it was before Nash was an MVP and after Kidd was at his peak).

What you fail to bring up is that, and I'm going to put this in all caps so you don't forget:

NOWITZKI TOOK HIS TEAM TO THE FINALS AND WON MVP WHEN NASH AND KIDD WEREN'T ON MAVERICKS!!!!!!!!

Who was passing him the ball then? Say it, i want to hear you say that Nowitzki took his team to the finals and won MVP when neither Nash nor Kidd were on the team. I'm starting to think your refusing to acknowledge it and therefore refusing to believe it actually happened...

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 07:19 PM
Are you dense intentionally?

Yes, Nowitzki played with Both Nash and Kidd (though it was before Nash was an MVP and after Kidd was at his peak).

What you fail to bring up is that, and I'm going to put this in all caps so you don't forget:

NOWITZKI TOOK HIS TEAM TO THE FINALS AND WON MVP WHEN NASH AND KIDD WEREN'T ON MAVERICKS!!!!!!!!

Who was passing him the ball then? Say it, i want to hear you say that Nowitzki took his team to the finals and won MVP when neither Nash nor Kidd were on the team. I'm starting to think your refusing to acknowledge it and therefore refusing to believe it actually happened...

OWNED!

I mean how many times does Hellcrooner have to be put to shame to realise that his point is baseless. Sigh!

Hellcrooner
02-22-2010, 07:25 PM
time is on my side. ill be laughin remembering all this stupidty in some years.

valade16
02-22-2010, 07:26 PM
time is on my side. ill be laughin remembering all this stupidty in some years.

If your saying history will remember Gasol as the better player than Nowitzki your wrong there too...

PatsSoxKnicks
02-22-2010, 07:27 PM
Here's some more stats, courtesy of basketball reference:

Pau Gasol's career Offensive Rating is 114, Dirk's is 117.
Gasol's career Defensive Rating is 105, Dirk's is 103.

Gasol's HIGHEST win share total is 13.9 (last year). Dirk's highest is 17.7, then 16.3, both led the league. In addition, his win share has been higher in 3 separate seasons than Gasol's career high win shares.

Dirk's PER is higher as someone pointed out.

Dirk is pretty much better in everything. Hellcroner, you're from Spain, Gasol is your favorite player obviously, why don't you just say he's the best player in the NBA to remove all doubt that you are a complete homer?

daleja424
02-22-2010, 07:28 PM
tsk who cares obviously ginobili looks european obviously he is not but also its not a big deal i challenge anyone to name every european country and every south american country without help from the internet or an encyclopedia or any other sort



and yes dirk is the best european player if he one a title it wouldnt be a discussion i feel like

i cant name them all off the top of my head... but if u tell me the name of one I garentee you I could tell you if it was in SA or Europe...

PatsSoxKnicks
02-22-2010, 07:29 PM
Hellcrooner is from SPAIN! Of course he's gonna think (or should I say convince himself) that Pau is the 6th best player in the NBA. Why even argue with the guy? He's clearly delusional. Maybe he has the corners of his eyes pulled back like the Spanish national team in that blatantly racist picture they took in Beijing and can't see the obvious truth :shrug:.

Patrick Ewing is the best player to ever play in the NBA.







Sorry I thought we were throwing out crazy homer statements for fun.

daleja424
02-22-2010, 07:30 PM
Dirk is so much better then Pau I kinda wanna :laugh: at this arguement

bigsams50
02-22-2010, 07:33 PM
time is on my side. ill be laughin remembering all this stupidty in some years.

Only thing Gasol will be remembered for is joining the Lakers and riding Kobes coat tails to an NBA championship. Dirk will be remembered for being the heart and soul of the mavericks for over a decade

Swashcuff
02-22-2010, 07:37 PM
time is on my side. ill be laughin remembering all this stupidty in some years.

From all your post on this thread I realise that you are some kind of Fortune Teller or Psychic or you got a Crystal ball or something because so many of your posts tell of what could have, would have and is going to happen.

Maybe we are all wrong and the great Hellcrooner knows all. :facepalm: Sigh @ you.

PatsSoxKnicks
02-22-2010, 07:41 PM
Shannon Brown is the best dunker of all time.

Derek Fischer is a better PG than Jason Kidd and Steve Nash.

Lamar Odom will be a HOFer.

Are these statements really that much worse than saying Gasol is better than Dirk? lol