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View Full Version : Knicks have 4 players left for 2010...Potentially disastrous



Cubsfan365
02-19-2010, 03:13 PM
The Knicks now have 4 players left on their 2010 roster with Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Toney Douglas. This looks good for them since they have been waiting for the summer of 2010 for a very long time. But what happens if the Knicks do not sign multiple all-stars? What on earth would they do if that really happened. They would somehow have to find eight players to sign. Even if they do get a big free agent or two, They will still have to sign at least six players. This huge risk could come back to haunt them big time. They were discussing this on ESPN last night, just wondering what people think.

GodsSon
02-19-2010, 03:15 PM
Couple that with the fact that they don't have their 1st this year or in 2012...with Houston most likely swapping picks with them next season and the situation looks even worse

dgreat5000
02-19-2010, 03:17 PM
I honestly dont see them signing big names, I believe that they will rack up in 2nd tiers players...Josh Howard type players. But if they get 3 or 4 players like that, they could be dangerous.

NyCsPoRtS1
02-19-2010, 03:17 PM
The Knicks now have 4 players left on their 2010 roster with Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Toney Douglas. This looks good for them since they have been waiting for the summer of 2010 for a very long time. But what happens if the Knicks do not sign multiple all-stars? What on earth would they do if that really happened. They would somehow have to find eight players to sign. Even if they do get a big free agent or two, They will still have to sign at least six players. This huge risk could come back to haunt them big time. They were discussing this on ESPN last night, just wondering what people think.

highly unlikely they hit and miss n every single free agent as a knicks fan i expect them to have a very good team for next season my prediction is bosh and jj but who knows maybe bron.... its not like this is milwalkee or minnesota this is nyc its going down

Bucsfan
02-19-2010, 03:19 PM
I could see how its a problem, but you can still sign a bunch of players for cheap, especially if you go digging in the d league

Personally i think they will get boozer and one other player since boozer just wants money and doesnt actually care about the team he plays for

Jetsguy
02-19-2010, 03:27 PM
This is not that big a deal at all and is hardely unheard of...Miami has the same number of players under contract actually less since James Jones and Chalmers have team options that they can easily not pick up so that would leave them with D-wade (player option) Michael beasley, and Cook...this is not a NYK problem

mudvayne387
02-19-2010, 03:29 PM
What outsiders fail to realize is that this is exactly what the Knicks management and coaching staff wants. D'Antoni likes to play an 8 man roation, with most of the minutes going to the top 6 players. They are really not that concerned with the bottom half of their roster as they can sign some washed up Vets and use their surplus of second rounders as fill-ins. I see them signing one star and then re-signing Lee. With the other 5-6 million, they can bring in a guy as a solid 7-8th man. The Knicks will be just fine guys, its not Walsh's first time running a team.

GodsSon
02-19-2010, 03:30 PM
This is not that big a deal at all and is hardely unheard of...Miami has the same number of players under contract actually less since James Jones and Chalmers have team options that they can easily not pick up so that would leave them with D-wade (player option) Michael beasley, and Cook...this is not a NYK problem

Miami also has two 1st's this year...how many does NY have? The best way to build a team is through the draft and the Knicks have completely disregarded that route

boriquaabe
02-19-2010, 03:39 PM
The Knicks now have 4 players left on their 2010 roster with Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Toney Douglas. This looks good for them since they have been waiting for the summer of 2010 for a very long time. But what happens if the Knicks do not sign multiple all-stars? What on earth would they do if that really happened. They would somehow have to find eight players to sign. Even if they do get a big free agent or two, They will still have to sign at least six players. This huge risk could come back to haunt them big time. They were discussing this on ESPN last night, just wondering what people think.

man you guys should seriously check your facts before you start a thread....
ny has 2 picks in this years draft+2FA-6 roster spots=2 roster spots left for a couple of vet minimus.....where is the disaster???

sintaks12
02-19-2010, 03:40 PM
Miami also has two 1st's this year...how many does NY have? The best way to build a team is through the draft and the Knicks have completely disregarded that route

Tell that to the Danny Ainge.

Jetsguy
02-19-2010, 03:40 PM
Miami also has two 1st's this year...how many does NY have? The best way to build a team is through the draft and the Knicks have completely disregarded that route

That is a complete opinion...Boston Celtics ring a bell? They were garbage bring in KG and Allen and what do you know a ring?

Knicks also have 2 or 3 2nd rounders this year so they will be fine in filling out their roster dont worry dude...no GM in the league makes a team and pays palyers so much that he cant carry a full roster

Ethix11
02-19-2010, 03:43 PM
This is not that big a deal at all and is hardely unheard of...Miami has the same number of players under contract actually less since James Jones and Chalmers have team options that they can easily not pick up so that would leave them with D-wade (player option) Michael beasley, and Cook...this is not a NYK problem

We would only have Daequan Cook (2.1 Million) and Michael Beasley(4.9 Million) for a total of 7.1 million. The Knicks Eddy Curry alone is set to make 11.2 Million. In my opinion New York should have kept Nate Robinson along with his Bird Rights since he was an expiring and a good contributor. The Knicks will have a total of about 20 Million in contracts but will have enough for two Max free agents. With very little wiggle room for depth. There core next year should be Al Harrington(Bird Rights),David Lee(Bird Rights), Gallinari, Chandler, Hill, 2 max level free agents (ideally).

Carey
02-19-2010, 03:44 PM
I honestly dont see them signing big names, I believe that they will rack up in 2nd tiers players...Josh Howard type players. But if they get 3 or 4 players like that, they could be dangerous.

I think this scenerio could be more likely, but if two of the big time guys have a strong enough urge to play with each other they could possibly get something done, New York will certaintly stress that when recruiting.

boriquaabe
02-19-2010, 03:46 PM
That is a complete opinion...Boston Celtics ring a bell? They were garbage bring in KG and Allen and what do you know a ring?

Knicks also have 2 or 3 2nd rounders this year so they will be fine in filling out their roster dont worry dude...no GM in the league makes a team and pays palyers so much that he cant carry a full roster

Seriously this thread should be closed....Fill out a roster???? the coach only uses 8 players.... Gallo,chandler,TD,max,max,Sergio,Vet min,vet min....

bkmikeyy
02-19-2010, 03:46 PM
This actually looks great to me. Three of the four players under contract are cheap young above average talented players. The 4th is a large expiring contract which can be easily used for a nice piece in a lopsided trade next year because of the economy. Even if they don't sign Lebron and Bosh, the money that they have puts them in a position to make trades where they can take on some salary. They will definitely sign someone thats a top 20 player in this league this summer, grouped with 3 very nice young pieces and still a valuable contract and after the signing will have over 20 million to spend on either smaller signings or trades getting really good players to save teams money. They can also leave sergio (2mil), tmac(4 mil if he proves he can play), bill walker (600k) and jr giddens (600k) to fill out the rest of the roster for like 7 million. So worst case scenario Knicks next year will look something like... Joe Johnson, Gallo, Wilson, Sergio, Tmac, David Lee, Marcus Camby, TD, Giddens, Walker, and a nice piece acquired from a team strapped for cash like David West or Emeka Okafor. Thats a top 4 team in the east. Now Best case scenario is if they get their 2 max contracts and suddenly they are the best team in the NBA for the next 6-7 years. With for example Lebron, Bosh, Gallo, Wilson, TD, Sergio, solid player from Curry trade and somebody cheap rounding out the 8 man rotation.

Carey
02-19-2010, 03:47 PM
That is a complete opinion...Boston Celtics ring a bell? They were garbage bring in KG and Allen and what do you know a ring?

Knicks also have 2 or 3 2nd rounders this year so they will be fine in filling out their roster dont worry dude...no GM in the league makes a team and pays palyers so much that he cant carry a full roster

Your right, and look how they filled out that roster for cheap once they got those guys....House, PJ Brown, Posey, Scott Pollard

Bucsfan
02-19-2010, 03:48 PM
man you guys should seriously check your facts before you start a thread....
ny has 2 picks in this years draft+2FA-6 roster spots=2 roster spots left for a couple of vet minimus.....where is the disaster???

what 2 picks do the knicks have? the jazz own the 1st rounder

Don Starks
02-19-2010, 03:48 PM
why do people get so crazy when a team decides to build through free agency instead of the draft? if the knicks had traded for draft picks instead of cap room i really dont anyone would care about what the knicks are doing.

GodsSon
02-19-2010, 03:48 PM
Tell that to the Danny Ainge.


That is a complete opinion...Boston Celtics ring a bell? They were garbage bring in KG and Allen and what do you know a ring?

Knicks also have 2 or 3 2nd rounders this year so they will be fine in filling out their roster dont worry dude...no GM in the league makes a team and pays palyers so much that he cant carry a full roster

And yet my point stands lol...how do you think Ainge was able to bring in KG and Allen? Allen was traded for West and the C's 5th pick (Jeff Green), West was drafted by the C's...KG was traded for Al Jeff, Gomes, Green; all 3 were C's draft picks...You build through the draft and amass a cache of good young talent THEN ship some out to bring in established vets...NY is not doing any of this, instead they are giving away picks and are instead banking on signing a top tier FA...let's be real here, if the Knicks don't get LeBron their summer is a wash

Ethix11
02-19-2010, 03:49 PM
I smell another Heat-Knick rivalry beginning this summer :cheers:

JIMMY CONWAY
02-19-2010, 03:49 PM
highly unlikely they hit and miss n every single free agent as a knicks fan i expect them to have a very good team for next season my prediction is bosh and jj but who knows maybe bron.... its not like this is milwalkee or minnesota this is nyc its going down

Ny has been saying that for 37 years...

3RDASYSTEM
02-19-2010, 03:50 PM
Xactly JETSGUY, people get on here just for others reactions, its like 5pct on here have actually played a ''SPORT'' and the rest just speak on it from word of TV(ESPN)....at least thats the ''SOURCE'' they can use....every yr before trade deadline the papers and media use '''SOURCE'' instead of the name, so wat i've come to realize since none of the actual ''SOURCE'' trades went down is that its a substitute for ''LIE''....

boriquaabe
02-19-2010, 03:52 PM
what 2 picks do the knicks have? the jazz own the 1st rounder

Uhhhh...the knicks have 2 2nd round picks.

bkmikeyy
02-19-2010, 03:52 PM
We would only have Daequan Cook (2.1 Million) and Michael Beasley(4.9 Million) for a total of 7.1 million. The Knicks Eddy Curry alone is set to make 11.2 Million. In my opinion New York should have kept Nate Robinson along with his Bird Rights since he was an expiring and a good contributor. The Knicks will have a total of about 20 Million in contracts but will have enough for two Max free agents. With very little wiggle room for depth. There core next year should be Al Harrington(Bird Rights),David Lee(Bird Rights), Gallinari, Chandler, Hill, 2 max level free agents (ideally).

Id rather have Gallo, Chandler, TD for a whopping total of 6.4 million and a nice large expiring contract that a team that needs to cut costs will gladly take off our hands.

Carey
02-19-2010, 03:54 PM
why do people get so crazy when a team decides to build through free agency instead of the draft? if the knicks had traded for draft picks instead of cap room i really dont anyone would care about what the knicks are doing.

Agreed, there is no one way to build a team, you try to get cap flexibility then look at your assets and you figure out whats best for you.

Patsfreak1776
02-19-2010, 03:55 PM
I don't think the Knicks did the right thing here. The Bulls did this back after the dynasty run and cleared a ton of cap space to go after what they thought would be Tim Duncan and Grant Hill. Neither guy ended up in Chicago and Chicago ended up with Big Ron Mercer(LOL). It doesn't work out. They won't be able to sign the guys they want and they'll end up with a bunch of 2nd tier $10-$11 million guys that will make them respectable but by no means what they thought they'd be. Building through the draft doesn't always work either. If it did the Clippers would be the Dynasty of the NBA . And form 93-00 the Celtics would've been much better. THe draft system in the NBA is a joke. The way to win is get lucky in the draft, sign a big free agent and add complimentary pieces.

bkmikeyy
02-19-2010, 03:55 PM
Ny has been saying that for 37 years...

Knicks haven't had more than the MLE to spend since the summer of 1996. Thats the same year that Jordan admitted he was about 5 minutes away from signing with the Knicks. And they still got the second biggest prize in Allan Houston and what was at the time a promising PG in Chris Childs. That free agent class pales in comparison to this one and the Knicks still came away with good players.

Jetsguy
02-19-2010, 03:56 PM
And yet my point stands lol...how do you think Ainge was able to bring in KG and Allen? Allen was traded for West and the C's 5th pick (Jeff Green), West was drafted by the C's...KG was traded for Al Jeff, Gomes, Green; all 3 were C's draft picks...You build through the draft and amass a cache of good young talent THEN ship some out to bring in established vets...NY is not doing any of this, instead they are giving away picks and are instead banking on signing a top tier FA...let's be real here, if the Knicks don't get LeBron their summer is a wash

They were all no different when they were traded than Jordan Hill is for us. You say they build through the draft and talent now because those players have turned out to be good but when they were traded they were unknown. The Knicks just did trade through the draft Jordan Hill and a first same exact thing they just did it for a future player not a direct one.

This is not the NFL dude the draft is absolutely not the only way to build an NBA team..drafting and good drafting certainly dont hurt but not the only way.

RocketsDWM
02-19-2010, 03:57 PM
That is a complete opinion...Boston Celtics ring a bell? They were garbage bring in KG and Allen and what do you know a ring?

Knicks also have 2 or 3 2nd rounders this year so they will be fine in filling out their roster dont worry dude...no GM in the league makes a team and pays palyers so much that he cant carry a full roster

In essence, Danny did build that championship through the draft. His ability to draft and acquire talented youngsters (most importantly Al Jefferson) landed him KG and then Ray. Danny also surrounded the "Big Three" with astute draft picks (most notably Glen Davis, Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins) that are pivotal players now. Without the drafting of Rondo, Davis, Jefferson and Perkins, the C's do not win a championship and their future would be incredibly bleak right now. You do need the draft to win and the C's are not an exception to this.

JayAllDay
02-19-2010, 03:57 PM
If Knicks fail in 2010 FA market, they'll go at it again for 2011

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-19-2010, 03:57 PM
Haven't you all heard about bird rights??

They can sign players who are on their roster now, after they have signed BIG FAs!

But yeah I think that superstars like bosh, wade and lebron will not sign with knicks period.because all of their teams are better than knicks.

but I think that knicks will get only money hungry players :sigh:
Isiah all over again:facepalm:

bkmikeyy
02-19-2010, 03:58 PM
Plus the people going crazy about draft picks don't really follow much basketball. The draft only produces at most 3-4 REAL game changing players a year so there is even more luck involved in placing all your eggs in the draft basket than there is in acquiring free agents which you clearly have a good chance to get.

29$JerZ
02-19-2010, 04:00 PM
Knicks have 2 2nd rounders

We traded Renaldo Balkman the first year Donnie became our GM for a 2nd rounder
And we have our own 2010 2nd rounder, since it looks like we'll miss the playoffs it will be a high 2nd rounder

2 round picks don't immediately count against the CAP.


Tony Douglass
Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Eddy Curry
2nd rounder
2nd rounder

That's 6 players already. Where is the doom?

Also Lee isn't walking away, he will either be resigned by us if 2010 is a flop or be used as a S/T to get another star here since CAP consumption won't be an issue anymore.

Knick's aren't as dead as some believe here. We merely swap 2011 picks, so we still have a 2011 pick. 2012 is Top 5 protected so if we really suck we can still get it.

GodsSon
02-19-2010, 04:01 PM
In essence, Danny did build that championship through the draft. His ability to draft and acquire talented youngsters (most importantly Al Jefferson) landed him KG and then Ray. Danny also surrounded the "Big Three" with astute draft picks (most notably Glen Davis, Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins) that are pivotal players now. Without the drafting of Rondo, Davis, Jefferson and Perkins, the C's do not win a championship and their future would be incredibly bleak right now. You do need the draft to win and the C's are not an exception to this.

Exactly my point...Rondo and Perkins are starters for the C's and were picked up in the draft via draft day trades...people need to understand that teams have to attain a horde of young talent before shipping some of them out to bring in an established player

RocketsDWM
02-19-2010, 04:02 PM
They were all no different when they were traded than Jordan Hill is for us. You say they build through the draft and talent now because those players have turned out to be good but when they were you they were unknown. The Knicks just did trade through the draft Jordan Hill and a first same exact thing they just did it for a future player not a direct one.

This is not the NFL dude the draft is absolutely not the only way to build an NBA team..drafting and good drafting certainly dont hurt but not the only way.

The draft does matter though. Other GM's will trade for young talent on the sole premise of their ceiling. You need young tradeable assets (like a Jordan Hill) to acquire top veteran talent.


The draft is not the only way to build a team but it is the most furefire one. Every guy that you draft is an immedate asset that select other teams will covet. It undoubtely helps you trade position with other teams moving forward.

MSG34
02-19-2010, 04:03 PM
This actually looks great to me. Three of the four players under contract are cheap young above average talented players. The 4th is a large expiring contract which can be easily used for a nice piece in a lopsided trade next year because of the economy.

:clap:

Exactly, we have flexibility to make the right moves now. There's no more dead weight like Jeffries. We had to pay a price but we now are able to completely restart and fill out the roster the right way.

Plus, people should look at Sergio and T-Mac's quotes about coming to NY. I think T-Mac would take a discount to play with a contender the guy hasn't been out of the 1st round yet. As far as Sergio, playing at MSG is his dream.

smith&wesson
02-19-2010, 04:11 PM
the knicks will be ligit. they have sucked for far too long and new york is one of the biggest market cities if not the biggest. its in the best interest of the nba as a whole for the knicks to be relevant again.

Since when has new york every had trouble signing players ? they will get there 2 stars. even if the stars are named bosh or lebron, they can still get stat next year and joe johnson.

and if they resign lee, sergio, along with the two stars and danilo as well ... thats already shaping up to be a lethal team.

I actually want the knicks to be relevant again, even though im a raps fan and they are in the same division. They have struggled for many years and have one of the most loyal fans they deserve a good team. isiah thomas should never be allowed to run a team in the nba ever again. he just runs teams in to the ground. he did it toronto, he did it to new york, i hope he doesnt get a chance to do it to any othe team ever again ...

knickerbockerny
02-19-2010, 04:15 PM
Exactly my point...Rondo and Perkins are starters for the C's and were picked up in the draft via draft day trades...people need to understand that teams have to attain a horde of young talent before shipping some of them out to bring in an established player

So the Knicks did not draft Jordan Hill and essentially flip him for a shot at two max superstars. If that shot becomes a reality we would have flipped Hill for two superstars.

You guys forget that Gallinari, Chandler, Douglas, and the two or three (one via Boston) 2nd rounders would have been drafted by the Knicks. All should be primed to contribute next year.

Can July 2010 come around already so we could silence critics. Trust, not all of the max superstars are going to turn down an opportunity to dance on a nightly bases in the bright lights of NYC.

Look at how popular Nate Robinson became and he is not a superstar talent. Ask your average sports fan to name 10 NBA players and guareenteed his name pops up.

bkmikeyy
02-19-2010, 04:26 PM
Plus Tmac has came out and said that if the Knicks improve through free agency this year he has no problem taking a serious paycut.
"No question," he said. Then he went on to tell Smith, "I don't need any money."

People forget that Tmac is still 30 years old. I'm not saying he will be the same again but there is a chance he comes back strong. If he does this Knick team can actually be very deep next year even with one max FA. Lebron, Lee, healthy but slightly less explosive Tmac, Gallo, Chandler, TD, Sergio, good post player from Curry trade = best roster in the NBA.

ChiSox219
02-19-2010, 04:26 PM
Haven't you all heard about bird rights??

They can sign players who are on their roster now, after they have signed BIG FAs!



No, they can't do that.

Slimsim
02-19-2010, 04:28 PM
I thought everyone label Hill a bust ? Now he's suppose to be the next 20/10 Big man. We lost J.Hill, JJ and Larry Hughe we swap 2011 picks and a 2012 pick so we still have a pick in 2011. We have 2 second round picks this year and if we are lucky we can get a steal. Everyone on PSD says Knicks team is Trash Now most of the trash are off the book this year and we have a chance to bring in Better players even if it's not LBJ or wade. We have a chance to build a winning team even if we aren't contenders. I prefer the moves I rather be a playoff team with good talent than a bad team with over paid talent. and in 2011 eddy comes off the book so I'm sure many teams would look to take that contract.

calibird707
02-19-2010, 04:31 PM
They r not gonna fail...if cleveland loses again in the playoffs bron and aware will be in ny and maybe tmac at a discount.

icon1914
02-19-2010, 04:34 PM
Knicks haven't had more than the MLE to spend since the summer of 1996. Thats the same year that Jordan admitted he was about 5 minutes away from signing with the Knicks. And they still got the second biggest prize in Allan Houston and what was at the time a promising PG in Chris Childs. That free agent class pales in comparison to this one and the Knicks still came away with good players.

Not anywhere near the same thing.

The Knicks also had Ewing, Oakley, Mason ( who was used in a trade to get LJ), and Starks still under contract. They still had the core that got them to the 94 finals... they just added Houston, Childs, and LJ to that core.

Right now we don't have much of a core.. two solid players (Gallo and Chandler) and one promising rookie. We have a expiring contract that might net someone down the line, but not right away.

in 94 we had a core that was battling it out in the 2nd round of the playoffs... in '10 we have a core that would end up netting us the #1 pick next year ( but we would have to give it up to Houston).

I love the confidence that some fans are showing, but I can't help but to think that if Knicks lose out on the top level talent we will be in for another long decade.

Tmac,lt,berkman
02-19-2010, 04:36 PM
they also got the d league so they could bring up players from there

calibird707
02-19-2010, 04:38 PM
I really believe lebron will jump to ny if cle does not win it...if he knows he will have a legitimate sidekick..gallo is gonna get better and sergio will thrive in coach ds system..if lebron and another max come it will probably be one season before they r an elite team...throw in the money they will have after eddy is gone and the future looks real bright..quit hatin

ldc62
02-19-2010, 04:40 PM
I don't think they're in trouble. IF 2 big names don't sign then yeah they would be. If say Bosh and Lebron sign, then I'm sure vets would be willing to sign a minimum contract just to win a ring.

pacofunk64
02-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Keep in mind that NYC has a huge tax rate...which may scare some stars away. The one positive is players could likely make up any loss with endorsement deals.

pacofunk64
02-19-2010, 04:43 PM
I don't think they're in trouble. IF 2 big names don't sign then yeah they would be. If say Bosh and Lebron sign, then I'm sure vets would be willing to sign a minimum contract just to win a ring.

You bet...Allen Iverson I bet would be willing to take league minimum.

bkmikeyy
02-19-2010, 04:44 PM
Not anywhere near the same thing.

The Knicks also had Ewing, Oakley, Mason ( who was used in a trade to get LJ), and Starks still under contract. They still had the core that got them to the 94 finals... they just added Houston, Childs, and LJ to that core.

Right now we don't have much of a core.. two solid players (Gallo and Chandler) and one promising rookie. We have a expiring contract that might net someone down the line, but not right away.

in 94 we had a core that was battling it out in the 2nd round of the playoffs... in '10 we have a core that would end up netting us the #1 pick next year ( but we would have to give it up to Houston).

I love the confidence that some fans are showing, but I can't help but to think that if Knicks lose out on the top level talent we will be in for another long decade.


Our core may have been good that year, however do you honestly not think that if 2 max players do sign here, along with the young talent that we do have, that we do not instantly become top 2-3 favorites to win the title? Why would a player pass up the opportunity to turn around a sad and pathetic franchise for the past decade that is located in the greatest city in the world. If these players really want to be known as the greatest to ever play the sport, there is nothing better than turning the Knicks around to add to your resume. If they win a title in NY they ultimately become legends. That may not be that much of an accomplishment for lebron, but the other 4-5 free agents could definitely use NY to get to the top. Plus Lebron loves to be the center of everything, no place better to do that than NY.
Tmac put it best...

TMac on NY: "Every player should want 2 play here...this frnchse hs been down so long, y not be part of something special and build it up?"
http://twitter.com/alanhahn

Im not saying I am 100% percent sure someone will sign, but I really think the odds are in our favor, and no team is ever build without taking some gambles. I'm tired of watching a 30-35 win team every season so I am excited by the possibilities. If it doesn't work out worst case scenario is we are back to being a 30 win team but with a lot of flexibility for the future. There is no more dead weight on the roster left, I would still be happier watching the knicks play gallo, wilson, sergio, tmac, td, lee than i was watching those miserable teams with randolph, curry, harrington and jeffries. So i see this as shedding bad character losers off your roster and starting fresh. Starting fresh with the greatest free agent class in NBA history about to hit is really something to be optimistic and excited about.

pacofunk64
02-19-2010, 04:44 PM
You get LBJ to go to NYC & DWade in Chicago....wow, the start of really good rivalry begins again.

sintaks12
02-19-2010, 05:00 PM
You get LBJ to go to NYC & DWade in Chicago....wow, the start of really good rivalry begins again.

Man, those were the days.

pebloemer
02-19-2010, 05:10 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-10-11

Saw this. Updated list of UFA and RFA for 2010 off-season. Just want to give perspective that having cap space for this free agency period isn't necessarily all about Bosh, LeBron, Wade, Johnson, Amare. There are plenty of quality players out there. Obviously those are the marquee names, but with cap space and this many options out there, I think calling NY screwed is a bit presumptuous.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-19-2010, 05:14 PM
No, they can't do that.

:confused::confused::confused:

Why not lol???

pebloemer
02-19-2010, 05:24 PM
Haven't you all heard about bird rights??

They can sign players who are on their roster now, after they have signed BIG FAs!
But yeah I think that superstars like bosh, wade and lebron will not sign with knicks period.because all of their teams are better than knicks.

but I think that knicks will get only money hungry players :sigh:
Isiah all over again:facepalm:


29. Can a team sign all the free agents it wants (up to the cap limit) and THEN re-sign its own free agents using the Bird exception?
Yes, but there's a restriction. A team's free agents continue to count as team salary (against the salary cap). This charge is called the "free agent amount." So there may not be enough money under the cap to sign another team's free agent, because the team's own free agents are taking up all their cap room.


31. Why do free agents continue to count against a team's cap?
It closes another loophole. Teams otherwise would be able to sign other teams' free agents using their cap room, and then turn their attention to their own free agents using the Bird exceptions. This rule restricts their ability to do that.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q29

Raph12
02-19-2010, 05:28 PM
I can see Lebron and Amare going there if the Cavs don't beat Orlando this year.

I mean think about it, Shaq will be gone, Jamison will be older, what will the Cavs really have to entice Lebron to stay if they don't win?

arkanian215
02-19-2010, 05:33 PM
The Knicks now have 4 players left on their 2010 roster with Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Toney Douglas. This looks good for them since they have been waiting for the summer of 2010 for a very long time. But what happens if the Knicks do not sign multiple all-stars? What on earth would they do if that really happened. They would somehow have to find eight players to sign. Even if they do get a big free agent or two, They will still have to sign at least six players. This huge risk could come back to haunt them big time. They were discussing this on ESPN last night, just wondering what people think.

i think every team gets an mle a year and bae on top of it if not used before. that's at least 2 all star caliber players w/ the cap space and a couple of good role players. on top of that, they can trade that expiring eddy curry contract to add someone like okafor (if the hornets are cash strapped) or maggette or obtain the hideous aging contracts of hedo or marion.

but yeah it can be bad if they dont land an all star caliber player.

ChiSox219
02-19-2010, 05:42 PM
i think every team gets an mle a year and bae on top of it if not used before. that's at least 2 all star caliber players w/ the cap space and a couple of good role players. on top of that, they can trade that expiring eddy curry contract to add someone like okafor (if the hornets are cash strapped) or maggette or obtain the hideous aging contracts of hedo or marion.

but yeah it can be bad if they dont land an all star caliber player.

no mle for knicks this year

icon1914
02-19-2010, 05:57 PM
Our core may have been good that year, however do you honestly not think that if 2 max players do sign here, along with the young talent that we do have, that we do not instantly become top 2-3 favorites to win the title? Why would a player pass up the opportunity to turn around a sad and pathetic franchise for the past decade that is located in the greatest city in the world. If these players really want to be known as the greatest to ever play the sport, there is nothing better than turning the Knicks around to add to your resume. If they win a title in NY they ultimately become legends. That may not be that much of an accomplishment for lebron, but the other 4-5 free agents could definitely use NY to get to the top. Plus Lebron loves to be the center of everything, no place better to do that than NY.
Tmac put it best...

TMac on NY: "Every player should want 2 play here...this frnchse hs been down so long, y not be part of something special and build it up?"
http://twitter.com/alanhahn

Im not saying I am 100% percent sure someone will sign, but I really think the odds are in our favor, and no team is ever build without taking some gambles. I'm tired of watching a 30-35 win team every season so I am excited by the possibilities. If it doesn't work out worst case scenario is we are back to being a 30 win team but with a lot of flexibility for the future. There is no more dead weight on the roster left, I would still be happier watching the knicks play gallo, wilson, sergio, tmac, td, lee than i was watching those miserable teams with randolph, curry, harrington and jeffries. So i see this as shedding bad character losers off your roster and starting fresh. Starting fresh with the greatest free agent class in NBA history about to hit is really something to be optimistic and excited about.

If we sign 2 players with the names James/Bosh/Wade we will be in great shape.

I'm not so sure the odds are in our favor. We are not the only team in the 2010 sweepstakes... and we are one of the least appealing in terms of talent. The two things we got in our favor is the city and the ability to sign two big names. I'm not sure that is enough to entice top level players here.... but maybe.

I would not be any happier being in the 7th to 10th spot with these new Knicks than I would be with the old Knicks... losing is losing, below average is below average. A team with TMac, an overpaid Lee, Gallo, Sergio, etc might not be much better than what we already had... and if we sign people like Boozer and Gay we will be better, but I'm not sure we will be contenders.... and we will once again be capped out.

One of the Knicks biggest flaws has been selling out young talent to take a chance on something already established. We sold out our future for Curry years back, we all know how that turned out... I'm hoping this works out a better.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-19-2010, 05:57 PM
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q29

Thanks for the link!

if this scenario happens, the knicks franchise would be in the mudhole again

JWO35
02-19-2010, 06:02 PM
The will realize they won't get LeBron and freak out and overpay somebody like Rudy Gay....

SteveNash
02-19-2010, 06:04 PM
Even if the Knicks don't sign any marquee free agents, they still have the cap room to take on players other teams don't want while probably getting some picks in return.

elizur
02-19-2010, 06:05 PM
I could see how its a problem, but you can still sign a bunch of players for cheap, especially if you go digging in the d league

Personally i think they will get boozer and one other player since boozer just wants money and doesnt actually care about the team he plays for

No way Boozer would be on the Knicks. The Knicks have a player already that they think is better. David Lee. They would resign him way before that.

GOON MUSIC
02-19-2010, 06:12 PM
I honestly dont see them signing big names, I believe that they will rack up in 2nd tiers players...Josh Howard type players. But if they get 3 or 4 players like that, they could be dangerous.

lol @ josh howard being considered send tier

JOSKOMANG4
02-19-2010, 06:25 PM
What the Knicks should do!

1) Sign & Trade! C) David Lee. Sign him to a 5yr 50mill contract, then!

- to OKC for SG Sefolosha, C Kristic, & PF DJ White & 2010 1st rd pick

2) Trade C Eddie Curry & his expiriing contract in 2010-2011(10.5 million).

- Along w/Tony Douglass to SAC for SG F.Garcia, PG B.Udrih, SF D.Greene, and 2010 2nd rd pick.

3) Sign Joe Johnson 5yr 80mill(16)

4) Sign A'mare Stoudamire to Max contract( 17.8mill).

Draft Picks:

22nd(v/OKC)- Jerome Jordan, C, Tulsa, 7-0, Sr.
34th(v/SAC)- Stanley Robinson, PF/SF Uconn
38th Scottie Reynolds, PG Villanova


Roster Outlook:

C) A'Mare/Kristic/J.Jordan
PF) D.Gallanari/S.Robinson/DJ White
SF) W.Chandler/Sefolosha/D.Greene
SG) J.Johnson/F.Garcia
PG) S.Reynolds/B.Udrih

The Dream
02-19-2010, 06:37 PM
No way Boozer would be on the Knicks. The Knicks have a player already that they think is better. David Lee. They would resign him way before that.

I swear if we waste money on Lee I'll be pissed. Unless we sign a center like Amare to orchastrate with him. He can't play defense.


What the Knicks should do!

1) Sign & Trade! C) David Lee. Sign him to a 5yr 50mill contract, then!

- to OKC for SG Sefolosha, C Kristic, & PF DJ White & 2010 1st rd pick

2) Trade C Eddie Curry & his expiriing contract in 2010-2011(10.5 million).

- Along w/Tony Douglass to SAC for SG F.Garcia, PG B.Udrih, SF D.Greene, and 2010 2nd rd pick.

3) Sign Joe Johnson 5yr 80mill(16)

4) Sign A'mare Stoudamire to Max contract( 17.8mill).

Draft Picks:

22nd(v/OKC)- Jerome Jordan, C, Tulsa, 7-0, Sr.
34th(v/SAC)- Stanley Robinson, PF/SF Uconn
38th Scottie Reynolds, PG Villanova


Roster Outlook:

C) A'Mare/Kristic/J.Jordan
PF) D.Gallanari/S.Robinson/DJ White
SF) W.Chandler/Sefolosha/D.Greene
SG) J.Johnson/F.Garcia
PG) S.Reynolds/B.Udrih

I don't like that. We need someone better at the point.

KnicksorBust
02-19-2010, 06:42 PM
It's a mistake everytime I try and read a Knicks related thread in the NBA forum. :laugh:

We had a $130 million payroll in a year where we won 23 games. Just a few years later we'll have two young talented starters with room to grow (Gallinari / Chandler) and a young low level prospect who might be a good role player defensive PG (Douglas) and cap space to sign TWO MAX players. How else were we going to get our franchise player? We don't have a draft pick. With Zach and Crawford we were horrible. We would have to suck this year, suck next year, and hope we did well in the lottery AND hope we made the right pick. That would in a dream situation would give us one franchise player after two awful seasons and having luck in the draft.

The way Walsh did it. We cleared our roster and already have a fresh start with Chandler/Gallo/Douglas to go after TWO FRANCHISES PLAYERS IMMEDIATELY! One of which is going to go down as a top 10 player of all-time. I'm already considering throwing July 1st NBA Free Agency party.

People worrying about our depth? Come on every year championship teams figure our ways to round out there rotations. Those 12mpg players are all over the league...

Celtics Bench Players that played over 10mpg in 2008 Playoffs:
Posey
Cassell
PJ Brown
Powe

Summary: One quality defensive role player, two vets who want a ring, and one good young big man

Lakers Bench Players that played over 10mpg in 2009 Playoffs:
Andrew Bynum (17mpg)
Shannon Brown
Jordan Farmar
Luke Walton
Sasha Vujacic

Summary: Andrew Bynum is a great young player but if you watched the playoffs last season (and believe me I did) he was awful. 6ppg, 4rpg on 45% from the field. The only stat he led the team in was personal fouls per minute. Really none of those players are even good role players.

Should Knicks fans really be concerned we can't find a vet like PJ Brown or Sam Cassell or we can't find any young role players like Jordan Farmar or Sasha Vujacic? I worry about #1, #2, and #3 before I worry about #7, #8, #9.

mrblisterdundee
02-19-2010, 06:44 PM
I wouldn't say it's disastrous, when you look at the current roster. The Knicks never had much to begin with, outside of Lee, Chandler, and possibly Gallinari. It's been nine years since the playoffs for New York, so the disaster has already come and gone and come again a few times. They can probably improve by simply buying free agents, and probably sign back any player from their current roster that they decide to keep.

GrkGawdofWalkz
02-19-2010, 06:47 PM
I liked everything they did except for getting rid of Jordan Hill. How do you give up on someone with potential year one in. But they got rid of Jeffries one of the last road blocks outside of Eddy.

Kakaroach
02-19-2010, 06:49 PM
The Knicks have put all of their eggs in the 2010 free agent basket, especially considering one of those 4 players is Eddy Curry. Douglas, Gallo, and Chandler are all very good and young but we'll see if that is enough to attract the major free agents.

Blackjack24
02-19-2010, 06:59 PM
Do Knicks fans care about who they sign positionally? Assuming you want to bring back Lee and Gallinari, does that mean you guys would prefer the FA's that are guards (excluding LBJ, of course)?

29$JerZ
02-19-2010, 07:06 PM
Do Knicks fans care about who they sign positionally? Assuming you want to bring back Lee and Gallinari, does that mean you guys would prefer the FA's that are guards (excluding LBJ, of course)?

Knicks have a ton of holes but the big 2 are Playmaker and Shot Blocker

Wilson can play SG/SF/PF
Danilo can play SF/PF
Tony is a defensive 2 or off guard

There are no PG's in this FA other then Felton but if you get LBJ or even Joe J who will have the ball in their hands the team starting 5 solidify.

heathonater
02-19-2010, 07:09 PM
the knicks should have plenty of salary cap room to sign at least one big time fa. at the very least, they are trying to get rid of bad contracts and rebuild there team.

ElMarroAfamado
02-19-2010, 07:10 PM
its funny the Knicks suck and have sucked for how long?
and people just assume they will be good next year because of some damn cap space?
how do you know they wont find a way to **** it up?

29$JerZ
02-19-2010, 07:21 PM
its funny the Knicks suck and have sucked for how long?
and people just assume they will be good next year because of some damn cap space?
how do you know they wont find a way to **** it up?

If you suck for years you rebuild the team.
With a bad team you have no valuable trade assets so trading for good players is out. Since your Old GM traded away multiple Picks you can't build through draft. So we are building through FA.

How can NY mess up 2010 when the only players on contract are 3 good prospects and Eddy Curry whose expiring will be very valuable since NY would take back salary for good talent after assembnling their team in 2010?

We have a clean slate to sign whoever we want, we don't have to sign guys like Larry Hughes, AL Harringonton, Duhon, Marbury, etc ever again

Don't see how a mess up is possible

blastmasta26
02-19-2010, 07:27 PM
I swear if we waste money on Lee I'll be pissed. Unless we sign a center like Amare to orchastrate with him. He can't play defense.



I don't like that. We need someone better at the point.

Amare is FAR from a defensive center. Marcus Camby is someone that we could get to mask Lee's defensive weakness.

Fireworld
02-19-2010, 07:36 PM
This actually looks great to me. Three of the four players under contract are cheap young above average talented players. The 4th is a large expiring contract which can be easily used for a nice piece in a lopsided trade next year because of the economy. Even if they don't sign Lebron and Bosh, the money that they have puts them in a position to make trades where they can take on some salary. They will definitely sign someone thats a top 20 player in this league this summer, grouped with 3 very nice young pieces and still a valuable contract and after the signing will have over 20 million to spend on either smaller signings or trades getting really good players to save teams money. They can also leave sergio (2mil), tmac(4 mil if he proves he can play), bill walker (600k) and jr giddens (600k) to fill out the rest of the roster for like 7 million. So worst case scenario Knicks next year will look something like... Joe Johnson, Gallo, Wilson, Sergio, Tmac, David Lee, Marcus Camby, TD, Giddens, Walker, and a nice piece acquired from a team strapped for cash like David West or Emeka Okafor. Thats a top 4 team in the east. Now Best case scenario is if they get their 2 max contracts and suddenly they are the best team in the NBA for the next 6-7 years. With for example Lebron, Bosh, Gallo, Wilson, TD, Sergio, solid player from Curry trade and somebody cheap rounding out the 8 man rotation.

You have some imagination.

Fool
02-19-2010, 07:42 PM
If I were a GM, I would love to be in that situation.

td0tsfinest
02-19-2010, 09:44 PM
Over/Under: Donnie Walsh will be the most beloved Man in New York next season.

KnicksorBust
02-20-2010, 11:52 AM
Over/Under: Donnie Walsh will be the most beloved Man in New York next season.

I'm not sure if that is an over/under... :laugh:

akay47
02-20-2010, 12:08 PM
Over/Under: Donnie Walsh will be the most beloved Man in New York next season.

I don't know a Donnie Walsh, but I do know a Billy Walsh

Evolution23
02-20-2010, 12:15 PM
the starting lineup looks rediculous for the Knicks, but in a good way.. Sergio, Mcgrady, Lebron, Gallo, Bosh.. Chandler, Douglas, Curry off the bench.. Its a wrap for the NBA

Evolution23
02-20-2010, 12:16 PM
People in this thread really need to open their eyes because D'antoni only uses a 8 man rotation so we would only need 3 solid bench players to win a ring with 2 superstars

DaoudS
02-20-2010, 12:19 PM
for the knicks to lure any max player away from their team, they will likely need to do a sign and trade. No sane person is going to leave 30 million dollars on the table, regardless of how much they can make in endorsements.

So say the Knicks and LeBron/Wade/Bosh agree to work out a S&T with the Cavs/Heat/Raps - exactly what players would they be trading? And wouldn't trading the already short roster make the team weaker?

No doubt the Knicks have a HUGE HUGE HUGE offseason coming from them, and if they play their cards right they can once again be contenders - but to think that they will be able to sign any max player that they want would be ignorant.

daleja424
02-20-2010, 12:57 PM
I agree completely with this. The Knicks are setting themselves up for disaster. In all seriousness they have two pretty average talents under contract and no draft picks. Why would free agents want to go there?

and someone brought up Miami... well Miami only has 5 players with ptential contracts for next year, true, but they also have 2 first rounders this year and two of those contracts are beasley and wade...

The Knicks are in a touch spot.

daleja424
02-20-2010, 01:01 PM
Over/Under: Donnie Walsh will be the most beloved Man in New York next season.

thats a buy or sell proposition... over/under involves numbers... :D

arkanian215
02-20-2010, 01:04 PM
I agree completely with this. The Knicks are setting themselves up for disaster. In all seriousness they have two pretty average talents under contract and no draft picks. Why would free agents want to go there?

and someone brought up Miami... well Miami only has 5 players with ptential contracts for next year, true, but they also have 2 first rounders this year and two of those contracts are beasley and wade...

The Knicks are in a touch spot.

money. they can get a ton more in endorsements even if they accept the knicks offer rather than their current team.

AddiX
02-20-2010, 01:09 PM
How are we setting ourselves up for disaster? We have been a disaster for years no matter who we get, well end up a better team with better players by the end of this FA period.

You guys act like there is a bunch of competition out there for Max Contracts or any contracts. As far as Bron goes it's NY or CLE.

As far as anyone else goes it's our choice. Teams like Chi, NJ, don't compare to playing for a big city like NY. All of these guys players and agents are going to push them to go to NY.

There really isnt much competition for the top free agents, especially when we can offer 2 and basically let any player decide who else he wants on the court with him.

PurpleJesus
02-20-2010, 01:18 PM
the starting lineup looks rediculous for the Knicks, but in a good way.. Sergio, Mcgrady, Lebron, Gallo, Bosh.. Chandler, Douglas, Curry off the bench.. Its a wrap for the NBA

you know that neither Lebron or Bosh play for the Knicks right?

anyways, the Knicks did great at the deadline, and although they dont have many players signed for next year, they had to blow up their roster anyways.

WSU Tony
02-20-2010, 01:43 PM
That is a complete opinion...Boston Celtics ring a bell? They were garbage bring in KG and Allen and what do you know a ring?

Knicks also have 2 or 3 2nd rounders this year so they will be fine in filling out their roster dont worry dude...no GM in the league makes a team and pays palyers so much that he cant carry a full roster

Where did they gain the VALUE for those trades? THE DRAFT! :facepalm:

_Supreme_
02-20-2010, 01:45 PM
money. they can get a ton more in endorsements even if they accept the knicks offer rather than their current team.

That is propaganda that is only marginally true. The top players in the league get nationwide attention and all the endorsements that come with that regardless of the place they are (as long as it is at least a somewhat decent place).

On the other side of the spectrum New York also has one of the worst tax rates in the US. The difference in taxes paid would probably make up for the differences in money made by endorsements.

_Supreme_
02-20-2010, 01:51 PM
So say the Knicks and LeBron/Wade/Bosh agree to work out a S&T with the Cavs/Heat/Raps - exactly what players would they be trading? And wouldn't trading the already short roster make the team weaker?

Basically they would only have David Lee for that, on draft day. And on draft day it is almost a guarantee that none of the top free agents will be available for such a deal yet, if ever. So that is a very limited option.

After that they will have to renounce his rights, or add his cap hold and lose out on a lot of space.

_Supreme_
02-20-2010, 02:03 PM
How are we setting ourselves up for disaster? We have been a disaster for years no matter who we get, well end up a better team with better players by the end of this FA period.

You guys act like there is a bunch of competition out there for Max Contracts or any contracts. As far as Bron goes it's NY or CLE.

As far as anyone else goes it's our choice. Teams like Chi, NJ, don't compare to playing for a big city like NY. All of these guys players and agents are going to push them to go to NY.

There really isnt much competition for the top free agents, especially when we can offer 2 and basically let any player decide who else he wants on the court with him.

You have a lot more competition for the top free agents than you seem to think, actually. It is a bit misguided to think otherwise. Maybe you buy a bit too much into all the fantastic stories your local garbage media keep feeding you guys.

Chicago seems like a big city as well to me. Which does not mean players will or will not want to go there of course, but it still is a big city.

NJ is pretty much the same as NY as far as market goes. If Lebron signs with the Nets they instantly become the #1 basketball team in the city/area, and A LOT of local bandwagoners will hop on.

And last but not least, you forget about Miami. Smaller market, "worse" fans, blabla. I have read all the biased bs. If Lebron leaves the Cavs you can be assured Miami & Wade are at the top of his list of options. Wade has more or less already said he does not consider NY an option, so go figure.

None of these guys are guaranteed to go anywhere at the moment. If the Cavs win the title and keep their team Lebron is not going anywhere.

Draco
02-20-2010, 02:27 PM
Money aside, why would Lebron want to leave a successful Cav's team for a Knick's team that could hypothetically be successful with Wade and a bunch of vet min players?

td0tsfinest
02-20-2010, 03:53 PM
thats a buy or sell proposition... over/under involves numbers... :D

i know :p

AddiX
02-20-2010, 04:17 PM
You have a lot more competition for the top free agents than you seem to think, actually. It is a bit misguided to think otherwise. Maybe you buy a bit too much into all the fantastic stories your local garbage media keep feeding you guys.

Chicago seems like a big city as well to me. Which does not mean players will or will not want to go there of course, but it still is a big city.

NJ is pretty much the same as NY as far as market goes. If Lebron signs with the Nets they instantly become the #1 basketball team in the city/area, and A LOT of local bandwagoners will hop on.

And last but not least, you forget about Miami. Smaller market, "worse" fans, blabla. I have read all the biased bs. If Lebron leaves the Cavs you can be assured Miami & Wade are at the top of his list of options. Wade has more or less already said he does not consider NY an option, so go figure.

None of these guys are guaranteed to go anywhere at the moment. If the Cavs win the title and keep their team Lebron is not going anywhere.

NJ is the same as NY? Have you watched a NJ game in the last few years? It's so empty that they have tickets for 5$.

Have you watched any NY games? The cheapest ticket is 45$ and even during the larry brown days they were selling out.

Why would bron go to Miami to play with Wade when they can both play in NY? Nike will pay them insane money to come to NY not to mention all of their other sponsors.

Chicago is a big city like NYC? GTFO, I been to Chi, and while its a nice city, it's not even 1/10 the size of NYC.

Why the hell would Wade stay in Miami, they did nothing to keep him there.

Don Starks
02-20-2010, 04:21 PM
You have a lot more competition for the top free agents than you seem to think, actually. It is a bit misguided to think otherwise. Maybe you buy a bit too much into all the fantastic stories your local garbage media keep feeding you guys.

Chicago seems like a big city as well to me. Which does not mean players will or will not want to go there of course, but it still is a big city.

NJ is pretty much the same as NY as far as market goes. If Lebron signs with the Nets they instantly become the #1 basketball team in the city/area, and A LOT of local bandwagoners will hop on.

And last but not least, you forget about Miami. Smaller market, "worse" fans, blabla. I have read all the biased bs. If Lebron leaves the Cavs you can be assured Miami & Wade are at the top of his list of options. Wade has more or less already said he does not consider NY an option, so go figure.

None of these guys are guaranteed to go anywhere at the moment. If the Cavs win the title and keep their team Lebron is not going anywhere.

1.) you lose all credibility with that statement. its not even close to being the same market since they play in completely different states let alone the fact that the knicks actually play in NYC and the nets play in a swamp in newark. (i am not being mean here, they literally play in a swamp). thats like claiming milwaukee and chicago are pretty much the same market because they are relatively close to each other, its a lazy claim to make and doesnt help your argument, just makes you seem uninformed and prone to making assumptions.and dont try and argue that they are the same market because the nets will move to brooklyn eventually, because right now the nets aren't in brooklyn they are in new jersey, and will be there for a few years to come.

2.) you don't have to read anything about the miami heat to know that their fans are pretty fairweather. in fact i am pretty sure you would hear it from some real heat fans on this forum too. just watch a heat game, you will see how empty that arena is, and that "bs" isn't that blown out of proportion.

Raoul Duke
02-20-2010, 04:30 PM
Does anyone know exactly how much the cap hold would be for David Lee? I've heard that it's 150% of what he's making now.

Anywho, the only people left that think Lebron is going to NY are Knicks fans. The city alone is not enough to get him there, and other than the city and I guess the coach, what do they have to offer? They got raped in the McGrady deal.

I guess they have an outside shot at Wade, but... meh. I don't think it'll happen. If they don't get one of those guys then they're not getting Bosh. So that means they mortgaged a four year stretch for like... Joe Johnson and Boozer. Now don't get me wrong, Boozer and Johnson are fine players. But are they worth all that time and all those draft picks?

bkmikeyy
02-20-2010, 04:43 PM
The people who are continuously negative and critical abut the Knicks make me laugh. Stop listening to the media that its all about Lebron and all that nonsense. Do we want Lebron? of course who doesn't. But the point is that the Knicks have almost a COMPLETELY blank slate. They have a few nice young talented players that are still in their rookie contracts and a large expiring contract that is going to be very valuable next year. They can go so many ways with this, Lebron and Bosh is the dream scenario of course but the fact is Donnie is going to have TONS of options to build this team practically from the ground up. If he plays his cards right, regardless of whether we get LBJ or not we are in a great position. They blew up something that was not working, left a small core and will use the allure of all the money, the big city and trades to put a competitive team out there. There is zero doubt in my mind the Knicks are on the right path and are going to be very competitive very soon and then all these people that love to hate on NY will have nothing to say.

NYK_kidd77
02-20-2010, 04:48 PM
I love how everyone is saying Lebron will not go to NY how do you know? Im not saying he is but there is a chance. I'll say one thing the Cavs better win this year or lebron may cry off the court and show up to his press conference in a Knick jersey.

THATSALL
02-20-2010, 04:56 PM
What outsiders fail to realize is that this is exactly what the Knicks management and coaching staff wants. D'Antoni likes to play an 8 man roation, with most of the minutes going to the top 6 players. They are really not that concerned with the bottom half of their roster as they can sign some washed up Vets and use their surplus of second rounders as fill-ins. I see them signing one star and then re-signing Lee. With the other 5-6 million, they can bring in a guy as a solid 7-8th man. The Knicks will be just fine guys, its not Walsh's first time running a team.

:hi5:

Draco
02-20-2010, 04:56 PM
I love how everyone is saying Lebron will not go to NY how do you know? Im not saying he is but there is a chance. I'll say one thing the Cavs better win this year or lebron may cry off the court and show up to his press conference in a Knick jersey.

I call BS.. If Lebron were 30, 31, or 32 y/o then I could more easily accept the "win the chip or bail" theory. Lebron's 25 y/o, management has been put forth the effort to improve the team and most importantly the Cav's are winning games.. so much so that they have the best record in the league. Time is on Lebron's side and on the Cav's side in this situation..

I'm not sure Lebron thinks this way.. but if I were a player, I'd look at how recklessly Knick's management has handled their assets in an attempt to get a top tier FA. Would I want to stay with the Ferry who gave the Cav's Jamison on the cheap.. or do I go to Walsh who spent draft picks just to unload a contract?

_Supreme_
02-20-2010, 05:05 PM
NJ is the same as NY? Have you watched a NJ game in the last few years? It's so empty that they have tickets for 5$.

Have you watched any NY games? The cheapest ticket is 45$ and even during the larry brown days they were selling out.

Why would bron go to Miami to play with Wade when they can both play in NY? Nike will pay them insane money to come to NY not to mention all of their other sponsors.

Chicago is a big city like NYC? GTFO, I been to Chi, and while its a nice city, it's not even 1/10 the size of NYC.

Why the hell would Wade stay in Miami, they did nothing to keep him there.

My post clearly said NJ has basically covers the same MARKET. The Mets' stadium looks to be about the same distance from MSG as MSG is from the Nets' arena. The Giants and Jets are basically the Nets' neighbours.

So are you saying the NY Giants and the NY Jets are really not NY market teams? If the Giants, Jets and Mets attract people from all over NY then so can the Nets if they offer the right product.

If Lebron signed with the Nets, which I am not at all saying he will do, you can count on sold out games most nights, and people will suddenly be coming from all over the New York area to attend the games.

Wade would stay in Miami because he likes it better than New York, obviously.

He gets his money in Miami just the same and he prefers living in Miami. He recently even basically literally waived off considering NY as a potential destination when he was asked about it by a member of some NY media.

And please stop using the endorsement argument. That one is overrated and even unproven to be factually true. If you want to talk about financial benefits, talk about the insane taxes NYC has while Florida has no state income tax. That alone will make up for presumed endorsement differences.

If Miami did nothing to keep Wade there, which is a comment by itself that is fail already, than what exactly have the Knicks done lately to offer something better? both teams have been working towards the 2010 offseason. They have been doing almost exactly the same thing. The only difference is that at least Miami has been competitive until two years ago.

NYK_kidd77
02-20-2010, 05:10 PM
My post clearly said NJ has basically covers the same MARKET. The Mets' stadium looks to be about the same distance from MSG as MSG is from the Nets' arena. The Giants and Jets are basically the Nets' neighbours.

So are you saying the NY Giants and the NY Jets are really not NY market teams? If the Giants, Jets and Mets attract people from all over NY then so can the Nets if they offer the right product.

If Lebron signed with the Nets, which I am not at all saying he will do, you can count on sold out games most nights, and people will suddenly be coming from all over the New York area to attend the games.

Wade would stay in Miami because he likes it better than New York, obviously.

He gets his money in Miami just the same and he prefers living in Miami. He recently even basically literally waived off considering NY as a potential destination when he was asked about it by a member of some NY media.

And please stop using the endorsement argument. That one is overrated and even unproven to be factually true. If you want to talk about financial benefits, talk about the insane taxes NYC has while Florida has no state income tax. That alone will make up for presumed endorsement differences.

If Miami did nothing to keep Wade there, which is a comment by itself that is fail already, than what exactly have the Knicks done lately to offer something better? both teams have been working towards the 2010 offseason. They have been doing almost exactly the same thing. The only difference is that at least Miami has been competitive until two years ago.

Please comparing the nets to the knicks is just stupid thats like comparing the mets to the yankees.

_Supreme_
02-20-2010, 05:37 PM
1.) you lose all credibility with that statement. its not even close to being the same market since they play in completely different states let alone the fact that the knicks actually play in NYC and the nets play in a swamp in newark. (i am not being mean here, they literally play in a swamp). thats like claiming milwaukee and chicago are pretty much the same market because they are relatively close to each other, its a lazy claim to make and doesnt help your argument, just makes you seem uninformed and prone to making assumptions.and dont try and argue that they are the same market because the nets will move to brooklyn eventually, because right now the nets aren't in brooklyn they are in new jersey, and will be there for a few years to come.

2.) you don't have to read anything about the miami heat to know that their fans are pretty fairweather. in fact i am pretty sure you would hear it from some real heat fans on this forum too. just watch a heat game, you will see how empty that arena is, and that "bs" isn't that blown out of proportion.

1.) See my previous post. Can I assume you do not consider the Giants and Jets to be in the NYC market either?

If people living in the south of Queens are considered to be in the same market as the people living in the north of the Bronx, then so are the ones living in East Rutherford.

2.) Most teams around the NBA have lower attendance when the team is not doing so well. When the HEAT had contending teams the arena was always full.

The fact that MSG is always sold out has more to do with the quantity of fans available than the quality of the fans. The NY metropolitan area has 19 million people living in it while the Miami area has 5 million. That does matter.

Bottom line is that I have very recently seen multiple NBA players publicly state they would very gladly end up playing in Miami while I have not seen any of the free agents express the same level of interest in playing for the Knicks.

OBVIOUSLY I am not saying NY is an unattractive place to play and nobody wants to go there, but to declare it the hands down #1 desired landing spot for free agents like some of these Knicks fans are suddenly doing for the past couple of days while dismissing other cities like they are nothing in a quite arrogant and childishly unintelligent manner... you are bound to get that refuted. There is more to a franchise than just an arena.

Tony_Starks
02-20-2010, 05:43 PM
Does anyone know exactly how much the cap hold would be for David Lee? I've heard that it's 150% of what he's making now.

Anywho, the only people left that think Lebron is going to NY are Knicks fans. The city alone is not enough to get him there, and other than the city and I guess the coach, what do they have to offer? They got raped in the McGrady deal.

I guess they have an outside shot at Wade, but... meh. I don't think it'll happen. If they don't get one of those guys then they're not getting Bosh. So that means they mortgaged a four year stretch for like... Joe Johnson and Boozer. Now don't get me wrong, Boozer and Johnson are fine players. But are they worth all that time and all those draft picks?


They're not going to hear you man just give it up. I've been saying the 2010 pipedream was foolish from day one but it falls on deaf ears. Until the big 3 re-sign with their teams fans are going to continue to fantasize about these dellusional "what if" superstar lineups in NY.

In all reality more than likely they'll get one second tier guy, and then re-sign Lee and T-Mac...maybe even House. Will they be better than what they have now? Of course but still not worth goofing off 2 entire seasons.

_Supreme_
02-20-2010, 05:58 PM
The people who are continuously negative and critical abut the Knicks make me laugh. Stop listening to the media that its all about Lebron and all that nonsense. Do we want Lebron? of course who doesn't. But the point is that the Knicks have almost a COMPLETELY blank slate. They have a few nice young talented players that are still in their rookie contracts and a large expiring contract that is going to be very valuable next year. They can go so many ways with this, Lebron and Bosh is the dream scenario of course but the fact is Donnie is going to have TONS of options to build this team practically from the ground up. If he plays his cards right, regardless of whether we get LBJ or not we are in a great position. They blew up something that was not working, left a small core and will use the allure of all the money, the big city and trades to put a competitive team out there. There is zero doubt in my mind the Knicks are on the right path and are going to be very competitive very soon and then all these people that love to hate on NY will have nothing to say.

This is the type of post and mindset that nobody in their right mind will "hate" upon.

OF COURSE the moves the Knicks made were the right moves to make and they are in a great position now.

The only thing I personally found annoying is how some of the fans immediately acted like signing Lebron + another max free agent is a lock, because NYC is so superior to everything else, and how dare anyone think their crappy teams have a shot at these guys. Why not hand the Knicks a couple of titles in advance :D

That and that alone is why I posted what I posted in this thread. I really will not lose any sleep over it anyway, but it is always unfortunate that the "good" fans will feel like comments meant for the "bad" fans are directed towards them as well because they like the same team.

Everyone should just be realistic and not talk trash about what their team is going to do until they actually did something.

abe_froman
02-20-2010, 06:14 PM
I love how everyone is saying Lebron will not go to NY how do you know? Im not saying he is but there is a chance. I'll say one thing the Cavs better win this year or lebron may cry off the court and show up to his press conference in a Knick jersey.

there is a chance.what people get annoyed with is knick fans so set in their mind about this,is there a chance? yes.but you guys act as if there's no chance that he wont.when you have nothing to base that belief off of,not because he can win a champ more easily there..just because "we're ny and thats how it is".ny is a great city,but not the only one."because we're us" isnt a good enough reason to justify the arrogance ans sense of entitlement that many ny fans have(regarding this),and its not even the summer yet/it hasnt actually happened yet.

you dont know that he wants to be a knick so badly,you have hope.you dont know what his plans are...and hell he might not even know right now.i mean what are you going to do if he doesnt come

Jetsguy
02-20-2010, 06:14 PM
Where did they gain the VALUE for those trades? THE DRAFT! :facepalm:

really dude? Easy with the facepalm. As I stated in a later post the Knicks have done no different in using their draft assets in a trade than the C's. They just traded the 8th overall pick from last year and a future 1st rounder for the opportunity to get 2 max FA's this summer. Not all that different than what the Celts gave for KG. I know they are trading for an opportunity and not a player but it is what they needed to do. Room for 1 max guy was not bringing anyone to NY this summer they need that second to sell the package deal to the top guys and the reason they were able to do that is via their draft assets. Jordan Hill is just as proven now as Al Jefferson was when he was traded. We did use him to unload one of the most untradeable contracts in the NBA so we must be doing ok building through the draft thanks.

Ragun
02-20-2010, 06:18 PM
That is a complete opinion...Boston Celtics ring a bell? They were garbage bring in KG and Allen and what do you know a ring?

Knicks also have 2 or 3 2nd rounders this year so they will be fine in filling out their roster dont worry dude...no GM in the league makes a team and pays palyers so much that he cant carry a full roster

but they did have pieces to trade for those guys.

Lindystud36
02-20-2010, 06:24 PM
The Knicks are in a great position as long as people are not banking on Lebron.
They will be able to sign Joe Johnson, resign David Lee, and they have to hope Amare wants to come play for Dantoni. With Gallo at the three all the knicks have to do is look for a solid point guard. They can use Eddy Curry's contract and bring in a guy like Baron Davis.

We all know money is not an option for New York, so once they have their big name guys signed, making a trade to take on money and be over the soft cap is no problem. If you ask Knick fans right now if they mind a lineup of
PG: Baron Davis/ Tony Douglas
Sg: Joe Johnson
SF: Gallo
PF: Lee
C: Amare
6th man TMac (Knicks have his bird rights)

That team can and will be comptetive.

Best Case senario is lebron, worst case senario is those 7 players

Tony_Starks
02-20-2010, 06:28 PM
really dude? Easy with the facepalm. As I stated in a later post the Knicks have done no different in using their draft assets in a trade than the C's. They just traded the 8th overall pick from last year and a future 1st rounder for the opportunity to get 2 max FA's this summer. Not all that different than what the Celts gave for KG. I know they are trading for an opportunity and not a player but it is what they needed to do. Room for 1 max guy was not bringing anyone to NY this summer they need that second to sell the package deal to the top guys and the reason they were able to do that is via their draft assets. Jordan Hill is just as proven now as Al Jefferson was when he was traded. We did use him to unload one of the most untradeable contracts in the NBA so we must be doing ok building through the draft thanks.


Just out of curiosity, how do you sell all this to the two max's you're trying to sign? I mean do you tell superstar A "hey we have the possibilty of signing superstar B too?" It's not like your going to get a gaurantee from both at the same time. They'll both be dealing with all the teams (besides the Knicks)trying to sign them? Wouldn't one of them have to sign first on the good faith that they'll land the other guy too?

Im not trying to be funny but I just think its interesting that people think that you can sign one max player simply with the allure that you may or may not sign another max for him to play with.

Don Starks
02-20-2010, 06:28 PM
1.) See my previous post. Can I assume you do not consider the Giants and Jets to be in the NYC market either?

If people living in the south of Queens are considered to be in the same market as the people living in the north of the Bronx, then so are the ones living in East Rutherford.

2.) Most teams around the NBA have lower attendance when the team is not doing so well. When the HEAT had contending teams the arena was always full.

The fact that MSG is always sold out has more to do with the quantity of fans available than the quality of the fans. The NY metropolitan area has 19 million people living in it while the Miami area has 5 million. That does matter.

Bottom line is that I have very recently seen multiple NBA players publicly state they would very gladly end up playing in Miami while I have not seen any of the free agents express the same level of interest in playing for the Knicks.

OBVIOUSLY I am not saying NY is an unattractive place to play and nobody wants to go there, but to declare it the hands down #1 desired landing spot for free agents like some of these Knicks fans are suddenly doing for the past couple of days while dismissing other cities like they are nothing in a quite arrogant and childishly unintelligent manner... you are bound to get that refuted. There is more to a franchise than just an arena.

1.) the difference between the giants, jets and the nets is that little emblem beside their names that say NY. people from new york tend to follow teams that supposedly represent New York. i say supposedly because i consider the buffalo bills to be more of a NY team than the giants or jets for the exact reason you point out. but i do not control how the media works and the truth of the matter is that as soon as a team claims it reps NY, they will be covered by the NY media. the Nets are a team of NJ and therefore are covered by the NJ media, not the NY, thus not apart of the New York Market.

i know you probably only consider Manhattan to be NY, but queens, the bronx, brooklyn and staten island are also considered to be New York, so when you claim that East Rutherford is just as much a part of the market, you again make assumptions that hold no water. your making claims that two teams should be considered to be apart of the same market because of their geographical relationship to each other, when that is not the case. the two teams represent different states as well as cities, and as a result they are not apart of the same market. this obviously will not be the case when the nets move to Brooklyn and they are accepted into the NY market, but until then, they will be the New Jersey Nets and thus apart of the NJ market.

2.) you are assuming that everyone in New York is a Knicks fan. to say that all 19 million people in manhattan are Knicks fan is another example of your desire to generalize in order to prove your point. does New York have more people? obviously. does that mean that they have a better chance of selling tickets? sure, but they also have had a terrible product for the last ten years. and the fact that miami still has barely any fans showing up to their games even with a superstar like d-wade is more characteristic of miami's quality of fans dont you think?

so to infer that New York has more sellouts and averages a higher attendance simply because they have more people is another incorrect theory based on the fact that they have been terrible for years. why would people who were fair-weather fans pay good money to see a crappy product? it defeats the idea of them being fair-weather wouldnt you say? but the miami Heat on the other have not only won a championship during the last few years, but they still have a superstar in D-Wade, a young quality player in Beasly and are in a playoff race, but still have trouble getting people to come and see them. that is why people constantly call out the quality of heat fans, because regardless of how good the product is, people lose interest and dont support their team.

3.) who cares what they say, this is the first time they have something to be excited about in a decade. is it so bad to let knicks fans think they have a chance at some sort of success, and relatively soon? if it doesn't work out then you get the last laugh, but why get so wrapped up in telling them that they are wrong for thinking they have a good chance at landing a good free agent? what do you get out of shooting down the idea that the knicks could be a contender if things work out?

Cracka2HI!
02-20-2010, 06:33 PM
The Knicks are in a great position as long as people are not banking on Lebron.
They will be able to sign Joe Johnson, resign David Lee, and they have to hope Amare wants to come play for Dantoni. With Gallo at the three all the knicks have to do is look for a solid point guard. They can use Eddy Curry's contract and bring in a guy like Baron Davis.

We all know money is not an option for New York, so once they have their big name guys signed, making a trade to take on money and be over the soft cap is no problem. If you ask Knick fans right now if they mind a lineup of
PG: Baron Davis/ Tony Douglas
Sg: Joe Johnson
SF: Gallo
PF: Lee
C: Amare
6th man TMac (Knicks have his bird rights)

That team can and will be comptetive.

Best Case senario is lebron, worst case senario is those 7 players

I think the Knicks end up with Johnson but I don't think they can get Baron for Eddy Curry. Even with his expiring contract.

Draco
02-20-2010, 06:35 PM
Just out of curiosity, how do you sell all this to the two max's you're trying to sign? I mean do you tell superstar A "hey we have the possibilty of signing superstar B too?" It's not like your going to get a gaurantee from both at the same time. They'll both be dealing with all the teams (besides the Knicks)trying to sign them? Wouldn't one of them have to sign first on the good faith that they'll land the other guy too?

Im not trying to be funny but I just think its interesting that people think that you can sign one max player simply with the allure that you may or may not sign another max for him to play with.

That might be the easy part if it's just a matter of communicating between all parties involved.. but I'm pretty sure it's going to be more than that. Someone's going to have to explain to Lebron why it makes sense for him to leave the Cav's even if the Knicks are in position to sign Wade.. IMO, it doesn't make sense for Lebron.

KnicksorBust
02-20-2010, 08:17 PM
This is the type of post and mindset that nobody in their right mind will "hate" upon.

OF COURSE the moves the Knicks made were the right moves to make and they are in a great position now.

The only thing I personally found annoying is how some of the fans immediately acted like signing Lebron + another max free agent is a lock, because NYC is so superior to everything else, and how dare anyone think their crappy teams have a shot at these guys. Why not hand the Knicks a couple of titles in advance :D

That and that alone is why I posted what I posted in this thread. I really will not lose any sleep over it anyway, but it is always unfortunate that the "good" fans will feel like comments meant for the "bad" fans are directed towards them as well because they like the same team.

Everyone should just be realistic and not talk trash about what their team is going to do until they actually did something.



there is a chance.what people get annoyed with is knick fans so set in their mind about this,is there a chance? yes.but you guys act as if there's no chance that he wont.when you have nothing to base that belief off of,not because he can win a champ more easily there..just because "we're ny and thats how it is".ny is a great city,but not the only one."because we're us" isnt a good enough reason to justify the arrogance ans sense of entitlement that many ny fans have(regarding this),and its not even the summer yet/it hasnt actually happened yet.

you dont know that he wants to be a knick so badly,you have hope.you dont know what his plans are...and hell he might not even know right now.i mean what are you going to do if he doesnt come

Not all of us. You can't blame us for getting excited though after all these years of epically bad seasons. $130 million dollar payroll wins 23 games. It doesn't get much uglier.

Halladay
02-20-2010, 08:26 PM
The Knicks are putting all there chips on the table this off-season and considering how many good players will be available, and no, I'm not just talking about LeBron, Wade, Bosh and Amar'e. Any of these players would be great signings-Manu, J.Johnson, Ray Allen, Camby, Jackson, Miller, Gay, Hamilton etc and there's plenty of other available should they choose to opt-out. This is the year to have plenty of cap space. They Knicks are in good shape assuming they can sign 2 top free agents. If they don't then yes, it is a disaster.

PatsSoxKnicks
02-20-2010, 08:44 PM
I honestly dont see them signing big names, I believe that they will rack up in 2nd tiers players...Josh Howard type players. But if they get 3 or 4 players like that, they could be dangerous.

See thats the thing, even if they don't land the A guys, if they get 5 2nd tier guys, they could still put out a pretty good product. That's why having cap space is so important.

And they do still have a 2011 pick, it's just the Rockets pick. In 2012, their pick is top 5 protected, so if they are the worst team in the NBA, they'll keep their pick (since the worst team is guaranteed a top 4 pick)

PatsSoxKnicks
02-20-2010, 08:52 PM
I smell another Heat-Knick rivalry beginning this summer :cheers:

I hope so, wouldn't that be great? lol

Best moment of that rivalry was Allan Houston's game winning shot to win in game 5. :p


His most famous play came in the decisive Game 5 of the first round of the 1999 Eastern Conference quarterfinals against the Miami Heat. In the fourth quarter, with the Knicks inbounding the ball trailing by one with little time left, Allan Houston caught the inbounds pass, and nailed a running jumper in the lane with 0.8 seconds left on the clock to win the game 78-77 and the series for the Knicks, resulting in one of the few times in the NBA playoffs where a #8 seed had knocked off a #1. The play is #50 in the 60 greatest playoff moments by NBA.com.

You gotta love that moment :p

arkanian215
02-20-2010, 08:56 PM
Not all of us. You can't blame us for getting excited though after all these years of epically bad seasons. $130 million dollar payroll wins 23 games. It doesn't get much uglier.

right it's just a few bad apples. we've seen it before when the nba forum turns into a huge rant by only a couple of guys from one team.