PDA

View Full Version : Doc Rivers and Phil Jackson upset with the Cavs



Swashcuff
02-19-2010, 01:15 PM
Here is the article (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=4926633)


LOS ANGELES -- It wasn't quite on the same level as San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich calling for an independent trade committee to be formed in protest of the Pau Gasol deal a couple of seasons ago, but there were two coaches calling for changes to the NBA's trade process Thursday.
Both Lakers coach Phil Jackson and Celtics coach Doc Rivers had strong things to say about Cleveland's acquiring Antawn Jamison by using Zydrunas Ilgauskas as a key piece in the deal, with the eventuality assumed that Ilgauskas will be bought out from his contract by the Wizards and return to the Cavaliers after 30 days.

Jackson declined to comment on the Jamison trade when he was asked about it at Thursday's shoot-around, quipping, "I don't care about that," and dodged two more questions about it in his pregame media session before not being able to bite his tongue any longer.

"They're going to get Ilgauskas back and it's going to be one of those scenarios that we see in the NBA where you ship a player out, you get another player, then your player retires or they pay him off and then he comes back in 30 days," Jackson said. "I don't know what that does for the league. I think that's kind of a weird situation."

Rivers agreed with Jackson, even though the loophole has helped his team in the past.

"I have a problem with that," Rivers said before Thursday's Lakers-Celtics game at Staples Center. "I loved it three years ago when we did it with Gary Payton if you remember, but now I think it sucks. I think it's a terrible deal."

My take is.....
While I do agree with their points I CANNOT blame the Cavs for what they did. I mean after all it’s not illegal. Heck it’s not even unfair because any organisation in the league can do the very same thing. Not just the Cavs.

JasonJohnHorn
02-19-2010, 01:29 PM
OMG!!!! Jackson and Rivers? Complaining about trades where one team is strictly dumping salaries? Or the player being traded returning to his original team? WTF?!?!!?!? Did Jackson not aquire Gasol on a trade where the other team was just dumping a monster contract like the Wizards just did? Has Jackson not see the "veteran minimum" help him out year after year (Rider, Richmond, Rodman, Harper, Shaw Malone, Payton).

There are rules. Teams work around them. That's the deal. When it works for L.A., Jackson has no issue, when it works for Boston, Rivers has no issue, when it works for their opposition, suddenly these guys are taking issue?

I'm not a fan of the situation, but I'm not a fan of the fact that there isn't profit sharing like in the NFL. Each team in the NFL splits their profits evenly so that each team has the same cash flow to draw from, in the NBA the owners won't do that (god forbid L.A. or N.Y. don't have more cash to spend then everybody else), but then they outbid each other for mid-level talent and start trying to dump salaries and buying out contracts, they want somethign to be done? WTF?!?!?!? They created the situation!

If a player sees his contract bought out, he should be an unrestricted free agent.
If trades are based on salary and not talent: so what. That is the way the league is now. Either address the root cause (start profit sharing so all teams have an equal bankroll), or teams like Boston and LA (and NY- though they don't apply in this situation) can stop their whinning when another team suddenly has the money to absorb big contracts and play on an even playing field at least with them.

I can't believe these two coaches are the ones complaining? WTF?!?!?!?

Why did none of these coaches b!tch last season when McDyess returned to the Pistons? Oh, cause they weren't shaking in their boots about the Pistons. Grr.... *shakes fist*

IndyRealist
02-19-2010, 01:35 PM
Pot. Kettle. Black.

Raph12
02-19-2010, 01:40 PM
Pot. Kettle. Black.

x2

They made a great move, like the Lakers and Celts did back in the day. Now if it's banned later, it's banned later, but for now everything is fair so stop crying.

JasonJohnHorn
02-19-2010, 01:41 PM
Pot. Kettle. Black.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap:
Literally laughing out loud on that one.

clutchski
02-19-2010, 01:46 PM
I guess it's only a problem if it's another team doing it, but if it's your own team it's okay to take advantage. That's what I think Doc is feeling. And I'm sure Jackson would do the same thing if he had the opportunity.

WickedBadMan
02-19-2010, 01:50 PM
"I have a problem with that," Rivers said before Thursday's Lakers-Celtics game at Staples Center. "I loved it three years ago when we did it with Gary Payton if you remember, but now I think it sucks. I think it's a terrible deal."

It's bordering on some kind of learning disability.

thunderforce
02-19-2010, 01:54 PM
Need to cut that crap out for all teams and need a hard cap also.

Jay22Redd
02-19-2010, 01:59 PM
IMO, I think they feel threatened by the Cavs now.

magichatnumber9
02-19-2010, 02:01 PM
Doc called himself a hypocrite. Doc sometimes reminds me of myself.

G-Funk
02-19-2010, 02:02 PM
They have a good point! I don't think anyone will be ok with it if the Lakers or any other team for that matter trade a player knowing that he's going back to his team. but right now it's fair game until they change the rule.

G-Funk
02-19-2010, 02:05 PM
IMO, I think they feel threatened by the Cavs now.

I don't think that the question was about the trade but more about that specific rule. Cavs are not the only team that can do it, Lakers and C's can also do it so if the rule does change it will also hurt their teams.

DaBUU
02-19-2010, 02:05 PM
wow, thats really hypocritical

Storch
02-19-2010, 02:05 PM
I agree, the buy out bs should be fixed because of ALL the lop sided deals, including my lakers' gasol trade. Its BS. :mad:

ChongInc.
02-19-2010, 02:06 PM
I actoully like the idea that a player can't return to his old team.

Lakers4ItAll
02-19-2010, 02:07 PM
And people thought the Gasol trade was bs Jamison just got traded for a draft pick

Bob_at_york
02-19-2010, 02:07 PM
I actoully like the idea that a player can't return to his old team.

I agree, they should have a rule that he can't return to that team mid-season after being traded and bought-out.

clutchski
02-19-2010, 02:07 PM
I actoully like the idea that a player can't return to his old team.

I second that, at least for the remainder of the season if he's been traded.

RaptorsFanatic
02-19-2010, 02:09 PM
All Phil said was "I don't care about that". How is that being upset?

ChongInc.
02-19-2010, 02:10 PM
I don't think that the question was about the trade but more about that specific rule. Cavs are not the only team that can do it, Lakers and C's can also do it so if the rule does change it will also hurt their teams.

It may hurt the teams, but it will help the association.

Big Quett
02-19-2010, 02:14 PM
"I have a problem with that," Rivers said before Thursday's Lakers-Celtics game at Staples Center. "I loved it three years ago when we did it with Gary Payton if you remember, but now I think it sucks. I think it's a terrible deal."

It's bordering on some kind of learning disability.

lol:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Jaji
02-19-2010, 02:17 PM
Pot. Kettle. Black.

100% true. But there still is a problem with it. I think that a player should only be allowed to be on any 1 roster once a season. In other words, once you're traded, that's it, you can't go back to that team under any circumstance until next season. Simple.

amoore87
02-19-2010, 02:20 PM
its a weird situation..but both celtics/lakers made out big on their recent 'BLOCKBUSTER' trades and each won a championship after doing so..sooo shut up phil/doc

Swashcuff
02-19-2010, 02:34 PM
deleted

koreancabbage
02-19-2010, 02:35 PM
i say the Lakers should go and try to get Ilgauskas, just to spite the Cavs.

Swashcuff
02-19-2010, 02:36 PM
100% true. But there still is a problem with it. I think that a player should only be allowed to be on any 1 roster once a season. In other words, once you're traded, that's it, you can't go back to that team under any circumstance until next season. Simple.

Simple and Smart

ko8e24
02-19-2010, 02:41 PM
I agree that a player can't return to his old team...

BUT

P-jax and stupid Doc can't complain here. Doc did the same with GP back in 2005, and Phil and the Lakers included that Aaron Mckie contract (when he was already retired and was a sixers assistant coach at the time, lol) in the Pau Gasol trade.


Stern and the league do need to look into all this crap

vigilantex69
02-19-2010, 02:45 PM
Yea don't give me that **** after the trades the Celtics pulled off to get Allen and Garnet, that was a joke

prodigy
02-19-2010, 02:46 PM
LOL I love it. The two biggest NBA franchises who have cheated the system themselfs are complaining that the cavs(0 rings) for doing the same? hahahaha.

SOMEONE'S SCARED!!!!!!

clehmun
02-19-2010, 02:46 PM
like some of you said, i don't think doc and phil was upset with the cavs. they're more upset about the rule.
it needs to be changed, nothing wrong with what the cavs did (they're playing within the rules).

the title is a bit misleading.

IndyRealist
02-19-2010, 02:49 PM
100% true. But there still is a problem with it. I think that a player should only be allowed to be on any 1 roster once a season. In other words, once you're traded, that's it, you can't go back to that team under any circumstance until next season. Simple.

The Indiana Pacers once traded Mark Jackson to the Denver Nuggets for Jalen Rose. When it wasn't working out for Jackson in Denver, they traded him back to the Pacers.

Double_R
02-19-2010, 03:00 PM
I agree, the buy out bs should be fixed because of ALL the lop sided deals, including my lakers' gasol trade. Its BS. :mad:

Ha I like that answer... It is bs what happens in the NBA with trades these days

Super.
02-19-2010, 03:06 PM
wow, thats really hypocritical

Rivers called himself a hypocrite...

I think it should be changed in the future, but for now, we all gotta live with it

Jahari Kavi
02-19-2010, 03:17 PM
i see nothing wrong with the rule.........

magichatnumber9
02-19-2010, 03:32 PM
Yea don't give me that **** after the trades the Celtics pulled off to get Allen and Garnet, that was a jokeThanks for the compliment whether you meant it or not.

BTownTeamsRKing
02-19-2010, 03:50 PM
I think the whole buy out process is bad for the league.

sure the tradeline is over, but the Celtics still have 2 spots open. better believe there will be one more impact guy on the market.

DCB/LAL
02-19-2010, 05:52 PM
It doesn't really matter. The Magic are the team the Celtics should worry about and the the Celtics/Magic are the team the Lakers should worry about along with some Western conf teams.

Jackson or Doc didn't really say anything wrong or bad about Cleveland here.

redsox0717
02-19-2010, 06:16 PM
...So just because Doc used this in the past, that means he can't say anything at all even though it's a known problem? Bottom line is this loop hole needs to get fixed. It happens every year and the only team that thinks it is OK is the team that's doing it. NBA needs to step in and stop this, because it's making a mockery of the trading system.

Sly Guy
02-19-2010, 06:17 PM
Pot. Kettle. Black.

most succinct explanation possible.

+1

SteveNash
02-19-2010, 06:24 PM
I actoully like the idea that a player can't return to his old team.

Why punish the player?

bigsams50
02-19-2010, 06:26 PM
Cavs arnt the first team to do a trade like this so i dont see a reason to complain now

JasonJohnHorn
02-19-2010, 06:29 PM
Big Z hasn't even been bought out yet has he? And whose to day he does go to the Spurs! YEAY!!!!!!!!

Big Z with the Spurs, that would put them over the top!

mrblisterdundee
02-19-2010, 06:49 PM
Jackson, Rivers, and Poppovich are all whiny hypocrites. Any team that has the possibility of improving without losing anything will take the opportunity.

heathonater
02-19-2010, 07:11 PM
i might agree with what rivers and jackson said, but there teams did tale advantage of the nba rules in their trades. they shouldnt complain about cleveland getting jamison. they should worry more about their own teams.

magichatnumber9
02-19-2010, 07:20 PM
Title of the thread is very misleading. Doc and the Zen Master have no problem with the Cavs

carter15
02-19-2010, 07:29 PM
I think most people agree its hypocritical what they are saying, but I also think most people would agree that they are right and that the rules need fixing. I think rules should be in place to prevent this type of thing, and maybe also the plain old salary dump trades as well like this one.

DerekRE_3
02-19-2010, 07:31 PM
They should be more upset with the Wiz for making the deal. More power to the Cavs for getting Jamison.

stawka
02-19-2010, 09:10 PM
I don't blame them. I've always said it was a stupid rule (or lackthereof). I said it when the Lakers did the Gasol trade, I'm saying it now when the Cavs did the trade, and I'll say it again in the future - It's a pathetic rule and needs to be sorted.

CowboysKB24
02-19-2010, 09:22 PM
I guess it's only a problem if it's another team doing it, but if it's your own team it's okay to take advantage. That's what I think Doc is feeling. And I'm sure Jackson would do the same thing if he had the opportunity.

Phil never did it. Phil and Doc said they don't blame the Cavs for doing it. They just said it should be changed and that is true. It is a stupid thing that happens. It has nothing to do with the Cavs. You guys are taking it the wrong way. No one is saying it is unfair, it is fair. It is just a rule that is going to be changed probably.

CowboysKB24
02-19-2010, 09:23 PM
I don't blame them. I've always said it was a stupid rule (or lackthereof). I said it when the Lakers did the Gasol trade, I'm saying it now when the Cavs did the trade, and I'll say it again in the future - It's a pathetic rule and needs to be sorted.

The Lakers didn't have a player get bought out or waived and then rejoin the squad. That is the problem. Trading player then 30 days later they rejoin. Z for Jamison is fine.

_KB24_
02-19-2010, 09:40 PM
I'm all for teams dumping contracts and I think it was a great move by Cleveland, but the whole "buying out and coming back after 30 days" is something that really pisses me off. Your literally getting an All star for a draft pick.........

By the way, I like Doc's concept revolving the deadline. It should happen during the All Star weekend. Players getting trade near the deadline usually miss a game or two due to workouts/deals.

stawka
02-19-2010, 09:44 PM
The Lakers didn't have a player get bought out or waived and then rejoin the squad. That is the problem. Trading player then 30 days later they rejoin. Z for Jamison is fine.

You're right, my bad :)

The SportsKing
02-19-2010, 09:53 PM
i agree with Rivers and Jackson!

Jaji
02-19-2010, 10:55 PM
The Indiana Pacers once traded Mark Jackson to the Denver Nuggets for Jalen Rose. When it wasn't working out for Jackson in Denver, they traded him back to the Pacers.

I remember that. That's fine. My "proposed rule change" isn't in effect and even if it was, Mark Jackson's case would still be fine because they traded him back after the season.

Meth
02-20-2010, 04:56 AM
Talk about the two coaches contradicting themselves. Lmao.

Same scenario with the "whatever favors me, I'll keep quiet" added with the "if the same thing favored them, I have all the rights intended to BlTCH about."

ldc62
02-20-2010, 06:57 AM
Funny how no one else complains publicly except the same 2 coaches whos team used these methods.

td0tsfinest
02-20-2010, 11:21 AM
I agree, they should have a rule that he can't return to that team mid-season after being traded and bought-out.

I agree.

I actually mentioned this last year, even made a thread about and I got blasted for it.

Evolution23
02-20-2010, 12:19 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=4926633

Here is the article

LOS ANGELES -- It wasn't quite on the same level as San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich calling for an independent trade committee to be formed in protest of the Pau Gasol deal a couple of seasons ago, but there were two coaches calling for changes to the NBA's trade process Thursday.
Both Lakers coach Phil Jackson and Celtics coach Doc Rivers had strong things to say about Cleveland's acquiring Antawn Jamison by using Zydrunas Ilgauskas as a key piece in the deal, with the eventuality assumed that Ilgauskas will be bought out from his contract by the Wizards and return to the Cavaliers after 30 days.

Jackson declined to comment on the Jamison trade when he was asked about it at Thursday's shoot-around, quipping, "I don't care about that," and dodged two more questions about it in his pregame media session before not being able to bite his tongue any longer.

"They're going to get Ilgauskas back and it's going to be one of those scenarios that we see in the NBA where you ship a player out, you get another player, then your player retires or they pay him off and then he comes back in 30 days," Jackson said. "I don't know what that does for the league. I think that's kind of a weird situation."
Rivers agreed with Jackson, even though the loophole has helped his team in the past.

"I have a problem with that," Rivers said before Thursday's Lakers-Celtics game at Staples Center. "I loved it three years ago when we did it with Gary Payton if you remember, but now I think it sucks. I think it's a terrible deal."
Rivers and the Celtics traded Payton to Atlanta in March 2005 for Antoine Walker and Payton returned to Boston after being waived by the Hawks.
"I actually do have a problem with that though. We did it, and I'm joking, but I do think [it's a problem]. I don't know what you do [maybe] just not allow them to go back to the same team or whatever. ... I do think that will be changed eventually, but I do have a problem with it."
Rivers also suggested the trade deadline be moved up to coincide with All-Star weekend so teams come out of the break with a fresh approach and their team totally in place for the home stretch, rather than face four more days of uncertainty.

"Who am I to suggest changes in the NBA? But why doesn't the trade deadline end over the All-Star break? I don't get why we have to come back for four more days. It's such a good fit over All-Star break. Then when you come out of break, the deadline's passed, all the GMs can go to the All-Star game and get it done. I wish that's the way it happened. It would allow you to start the break with your [entire] team and allow guys to [join their new club] and not miss games like tonight, where we lose Eddie [House], and we're not allowed to use Nate [Robinson]. We wouldn't have that situation. I would love that to change."

My take is.....
While I do agree with their points I CANNOT blame the Cavs for what they did. I mean after all itís not illegal. Heck itís not even unfair because any organisation in the league can do the very same thing. Not just the Cavs.

What Phil and Doc need to do is look around at their roster and realize that they have allstars at every position.. Once they do that they can shut the hell up.

DCB/LAL
02-20-2010, 05:30 PM
What Phil and Doc need to do is look around at their roster and realize that they have allstars at every position.. Once they do that they can shut the hell up.

Well LA didn't have Kwame bought out and brought back had they done that maybe his size would of actually helped against the Celtics considering the Celtics were tougher than LA in that series so it could of meant 2 NBA championships istead of 1 in the last 2 years.

LA_Raiders
02-20-2010, 06:23 PM
Lakers should offer more $$$ to bring Z to LA and **** Clev over...

LAcowBOMBER
02-20-2010, 06:44 PM
Do people read what the article actually says? Phil Jackson called it a weird situation and Doc Rivers admitted to being a hypocrite. I don't know why people are jumping all over them. It's a pretty dumb rule and should probably be changed.

sep11ie
02-20-2010, 06:47 PM
Its B.S. yes, but those two idiots have no right to talk about it.