PDA

View Full Version : Did Rockets GM Daryl Morey outsmart Knicks GM Donnie Walsh?



King P
02-19-2010, 04:37 AM
Read this in another forum and thought it was interesting. Give your thoughts on it


Something Morey said during the press conference struck a chord with me. I had that "Ahhh Haaa!" moment. I finally understood Morey's grand plan.

Morey: NY consider Jeffries someone they need to get rid of for their summer plans to be set up. It was something that was important to them. NY did the right thing based on what their plans were. I think there are now 8 teams that can chase free agents, not necessarily 8 free agents and some of the teams are trying for 2. I don't think we're out of it (2010). In our opinion we're more in it. We dont know where they going to go, i can't talk about specific players but for those players just to sign with the teams they have to give up 30 million dollars. I don't know too many players that are willing to do that, now they might but i think most of those players will go in sign and trade. Now we like the players that we have but we'll have an opportunity there to add those players in sign and trade over summer.


Translation:
Walsh was aiming to put himself in a weaker position to chase LeBron by getting rid of Jeffries. Morey knew it and squeezed the **** out of him with the picks and Hill. Walsh has put himself in position to convince 2 max players to give up $60 million instead of a sign and trade for one free agent and convince another guy to give up $30 million for the right to play with the 1st guy for a ring.


Knicks' tradeable assets for a max free agent before the trade:
Curry's expiring contract, Jeffries expiring contract, David Lee in a sign and trade, 2011 1st round draft pick swap, 2012 1st round draft pick, 2009 draft pick Jordan Hill, and Nate Robinson.

After 2 trades, they were left with only expiring contract Curry, David Lee in a sign and trade.


Rockets, Before the trade
2010 Rockets 1st, 2012 Rockets 1st, a choice of various rotation players Landry,Brooks, Budinger, Ariza, Battier, etc

After the trade.
2010 Rockets 1st or 2011 Rockets(pick swappable with NY, top 1 protected) and 2012 Rockets 1st Pick, 2012 NY's 1st pick(top 5 protected), 2009 Knicks 1st pick(Jordan Hill)

That's just the draft picks that a team needs to rebuild from losing their franchise player.

Throw in their choice of young talent: Budinger, Brooks, Kevin Martin,

Contracts to lower the hit of a sign and trade: Jeffries' expiring

Morey: "Walsh, good luck doing a sign and trade with Toronto and Cleveland or convincing 2 max players to give up $60 million dollars. By the way, I am trying to steal LeBron, Amare and Bosh with your old trade assets and they will get paid $30 million dollars more in sign and trade with your old trade assets!"

abe_froman
02-19-2010, 04:57 AM
its not really outsmarting anyone.ny is desperate in their 2010 goal,its no secret,anyone with big expiring could have gotten alot from them.so the rockets were in the position of power.they had a huge expiring and other teams that were interested,so they played to it.its just ny was so desperate,everyones known their goal for years,so were willing to pay almost any price set...something other teams werent willing to do


its a gamble,great if the stars really do want to come like your hoping...but if not,welcome to the past few years

SDBearsFan
02-19-2010, 05:10 AM
The Knicks got RAPED in that deal. So let's say they go out and get two max FA's, even though Wade and Lebron are more likely to stay than leave. Even if the KNicks sign, let's say, Amare and Joe Johnson. Who else will be on that team? Chris Duhon? Galinari? That team is still garbage.

icon1914
02-19-2010, 05:34 AM
The Knicks got RAPED in that deal. So let's say they go out and get two max FA's, even though Wade and Lebron are more likely to stay than leave. Even if the KNicks sign, let's say, Amare and Joe Johnson. Who else will be on that team? Chris Duhon? Galinari? That team is still garbage.

I think you vastly underestimate the power of two top level young players. If they get any combo of Wade/Bosh/James they will be alright. They have three solid young players under contract in Gallo, Chandler, and Douglas... plus they have the expiring contract Curry, something that could be used to bring in someone by next years trade deadline. They also have the MLE exception to work with... and who knows what vets might want to play for the vets minimum to get a chance at a ring. By November the Knicks will be looking very different.

If they end up, like you said, with Amar'e and Joe Johnson, then this whole 2010 thing is a failure. Sure they can find a way to surround Amar'e and Joe with talent, but those two aren't on the same level as Wade and James, or Bosh and James. They probably will make it back to the playoffs... but you don't toss away two seasons to become a playoff contender... you do that to become a championship contender. They might have been a playoff contender with Zbo and Crawford running the ship.

wudadoda
02-19-2010, 07:17 AM
King P,
I am glad you posted this article, for awhile I was wondering why we did what we did but this makes perfect sense. Go Rockets!!! If only we can trade Yao for Lebron. Yeah I know - DREAM ON. Nice article and yes it seems as Morey has done it again. If we end up with a major star in 2010 then he will be one of the best GM's in Rockets history.

FarOutIos
02-19-2010, 07:38 AM
The Knicks got RAPED in that deal. So let's say they go out and get two max FA's, even though Wade and Lebron are more likely to stay than leave. Even if the KNicks sign, let's say, Amare and Joe Johnson. Who else will be on that team? Chris Duhon? Galinari? That team is still garbage.

I'm not so sure it was a bad deal for the knicks... let's say that they do sign two of those quality FA's... Amare and Joe Johnson. Now, if they are lucky, they sign TMac to the mid level exception... You then have Amare, Chandler, Gallinari, Tony Douglas, Joe Johnson, TMac, as a core...

Or they could get Bosh and keep David Lee and TMac for a starting rotation of Douglas, Tmac, Chandler, Lee and Bosh with Gall coming off the bench. Point is, the off season will only be able to tell how good their team can get.

FarOutIos
02-19-2010, 07:46 AM
... and if the Knicks do get good, then the picks that they traded for carry less value, and the lopsided view of the trade is negated.

Let's say the knicks sign Lebron and Bosh. Things look a whole lot different then. And if Yao continues to be injured... then your low post needs become more pressing. Seems like the whole trade from Houston's point of view will be determined by how good Jordan Hill becomes and how bad NY becomes.

Cavs_Fan24
02-19-2010, 08:27 AM
NY is screwed if they don't get someone. They have no future. Their team is already a piece of **** and they have practically no picks. I'm sorry but even if they do sign someone they may have to sign 2 or they are doomed IMO.

Daze9900
02-19-2010, 08:36 AM
NY is screwed if they don't get someone. They have no future. Their team is already a piece of **** and they have practically no picks. I'm sorry but even if they do sign someone they may have to sign 2 or they are doomed IMO.

Let all the haters rejoice. See you in the summer.

Badluck33
02-19-2010, 08:47 AM
Knicks could have 2 stars and will still be surrounded by garbage.

and if a FA signs in NY its gonna be about the money and not championships.

mudvayne387
02-19-2010, 08:59 AM
This was the dumbest article I have ever read on PSD. I am not saying one has to praise the Knicks , but you do have to give credit to where it is due. Stop acting like Lebron, Bosh, and Wade are the only available free agents this summer. It is an absolute blessing that the Knicks got rid of Jeffries contract to free up more money for the summer. With Curry's contract expiring next season, the Knicks look to be in a very good position for years to come.

cheezinmypocket
02-19-2010, 09:18 AM
This was the dumbest article I have ever read on PSD. I am not saying one has to praise the Knicks , but you do have to give credit to where it is due. Stop acting like Lebron, Bosh, and Wade are the only available free agents this summer. It is an absolute blessing that the Knicks got rid of Jeffries contract to free up more money for the summer. With Curry's contract expiring next season, the Knicks look to be in a very good position for years to come.

There is no credit due here. Walsh is nothing more than Isiah Part II.

The only hope here is that some free agent is stupid enough to leave lots of money on the table and sign out right with the Knicks. That isn't very likely to happen when it is pretty widely known that this is the last offseason before the CBA is up for renewal and the owners are pushing to limit contracts after that.

And to throw away draft picks on top of that is the icing on the cake.

Spiderman 1nner
02-19-2010, 09:51 AM
I don't really understandd how Walsh got outsmartedd if he finally put New York in tha right direction, even after Isiah's mess, which I personally thought wouldd take longer to fix. Now he's got enuff to sign 2 of tha big names if he can pull it off, which wouldd put NY backk on tha map. I'll sure as hell buy season tickets if tha Knicks get Lebron and one of tha other superstars available this offseason. Will be a fun team to watch nexxt year.

Big Quett
02-19-2010, 09:52 AM
I dont see why people dont understand that if Wade, leBron or Bosh doesnt resign they lose about 30 mil in contract money. And like the article says if either of those guys leave their teams it would most likely be done in sign and trades. And Houston has assets now to get in done. And NY really doesnt anymore.

Lets say NY signs to major free agents they have no money to sign David Lee to the money he wants and after this year probably deserves.

arkanian215
02-19-2010, 09:52 AM
Read this in another forum and thought it was interesting. Give your thoughts on it


Something Morey said during the press conference struck a chord with me. I had that "Ahhh Haaa!" moment. I finally understood Morey's grand plan.

Morey: NY consider Jeffries someone they need to get rid of for their summer plans to be set up. It was something that was important to them. NY did the right thing based on what their plans were. I think there are now 8 teams that can chase free agents, not necessarily 8 free agents and some of the teams are trying for 2. I don't think we're out of it (2010). In our opinion we're more in it. We dont know where they going to go, i can't talk about specific players but for those players just to sign with the teams they have to give up 30 million dollars. I don't know too many players that are willing to do that, now they might but i think most of those players will go in sign and trade. Now we like the players that we have but we'll have an opportunity there to add those players in sign and trade over summer.


Translation:
Walsh was aiming to put himself in a weaker position to chase LeBron by getting rid of Jeffries. Morey knew it and squeezed the **** out of him with the picks and Hill. Walsh has put himself in position to convince 2 max players to give up $60 million instead of a sign and trade for one free agent and convince another guy to give up $30 million for the right to play with the 1st guy for a ring.


Knicks' tradeable assets for a max free agent before the trade:
Curry's expiring contract, Jeffries expiring contract, David Lee in a sign and trade, 2011 1st round draft pick swap, 2012 1st round draft pick, 2009 draft pick Jordan Hill, and Nate Robinson.

After 2 trades, they were left with only expiring contract Curry, David Lee in a sign and trade.


Rockets, Before the trade
2010 Rockets 1st, 2012 Rockets 1st, a choice of various rotation players Landry,Brooks, Budinger, Ariza, Battier, etc

After the trade.
2010 Rockets 1st or 2011 Rockets(pick swappable with NY, top 1 protected) and 2012 Rockets 1st Pick, 2012 NY's 1st pick(top 5 protected), 2009 Knicks 1st pick(Jordan Hill)

That's just the draft picks that a team needs to rebuild from losing their franchise player.

Throw in their choice of young talent: Budinger, Brooks, Kevin Martin,

Contracts to lower the hit of a sign and trade: Jeffries' expiring

Morey: "Walsh, good luck doing a sign and trade with Toronto and Cleveland or convincing 2 max players to give up $60 million dollars. By the way, I am trying to steal LeBron, Amare and Bosh with your old trade assets and they will get paid $30 million dollars more in sign and trade with your old trade assets!"


Houston also has the right to swap first-round picks with New York in 2011, and the Rockets also get New York's 2012 first-round pick.http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4924836

I thought you couldn't trade consecutive first rounders.

sintaks12
02-19-2010, 09:58 AM
I think you vastly underestimate the power of two top level young players. If they get any combo of Wade/Bosh/James they will be alright. They have three solid young players under contract in Gallo, Chandler, and Douglas... plus they have the expiring contract Curry, something that could be used to bring in someone by next years trade deadline. They also have the MLE exception to work with... and who knows what vets might want to play for the vets minimum to get a chance at a ring. By November the Knicks will be looking very different.

If they end up, like you said, with Amar'e and Joe Johnson, then this whole 2010 thing is a failure. Sure they can find a way to surround Amar'e and Joe with talent, but those two aren't on the same level as Wade and James, or Bosh and James. They probably will make it back to the playoffs... but you don't toss away two seasons to become a playoff contender... you do that to become a championship contender. They might have been a playoff contender with Zbo and Crawford running the ship.

Curry's contract next year is huge. Hopefully Walsh can turn it into a few decent pieces. NY won't have the MLE though (to my knowledge) because they will be under the cap. This was no doubt a huge risk. I don't agree with those that say chandler, gallo and douglas are trash. Those people obviously are haters and have not watched the Knicks play. But I do agree that if Lebron + Max FA don't come next year, Walsh will be perceived as a failure. LOL, I wonder how many Knick-bashing posts we'll see if Lebron stays put? You think they got raped now... wait until July if they strike out.

arkanian215
02-19-2010, 10:08 AM
I don't really understandd how Walsh got outsmartedd if he finally put New York in tha right direction, even after Isiah's mess, which I personally thought wouldd take longer to fix. Now he's got enuff to sign 2 of tha big names if he can pull it off, which wouldd put NY backk on tha map. I'll sure as hell buy season tickets if tha Knicks get Lebron and one of tha other superstars available this offseason. Will be a fun team to watch nexxt year.

this has the potential to be an isiah type mess. think of what happened when isiah got here. he traded away their future assets to acquire guys who he thought would help them out sooner rather than later. walsh is leading them in that same direction but with the cap space to sign the guys he wants. curry trade - first rounder and the right to swap. marbury trade - players + 2 future picks. this walsh move is similar and has the potential to be an isiahesque catastrophe if they dont have results on the court (regardless of who comes to msg). at least he isnt trading expirings for an overpaid dwindling star.

kobebabe
02-19-2010, 10:34 AM
I hate to say it but i don't see neither lebron nor Wade leaving their teams. The only possility for NY will be Bosh out of the 3 but even then, Bosh might choose to go to a winner before he go to NY. I see them ending up with Joe Johnson and Amare. This just makes them a playoff team but not a contender.

arkanian215
02-19-2010, 10:39 AM
I hate to say it but i don't see neither lebron nor Wade leaving their teams. The only possility for NY will be Bosh out of the 3 but even then, Bosh might choose to go to a winner before he go to NY. I see them ending up with Joe Johnson and Amare. This just makes them a playoff team but not a contender.

if they dont get lebron or wade, they'll have to worry a little more about getting a better pg.

justheboss
02-19-2010, 10:40 AM
I hope they sign rudy gay and bosh. Also the have bird rights for lee and keeping those rights will allow them to sign TWO max players and resign lee. Plus didn't the knicks get the celtics 1st rnd this year with the nate trade. I also likethe guy walker they got, he was a beast a K State. If he wasn't hurt I think wouldve been better then beasley.

Anyway stop hating cause walsh did what he wanted to, get enough room to sign 2 big names. Plus you're forgetting that if 10 is a bust the free agents in 11 are strong too and the knicks will have money then too.

The ChILL
02-19-2010, 10:42 AM
If the major free agents stay put I see the Knicks getting Boozer. This guy is all about the money and NY will have a bunch of it.

JOSKOMANG4
02-19-2010, 10:48 AM
I hate to say it but Bosh, Wade, or Lebron aren't going to sign with the Knicks..

For the Knicks sake.. I would LOVEEEE if we signed A'Mare to a max contract.., but I hope we don't offer a max contract to Joe Johnson. The most I would offer Joe Johnson is a contract similar to what elton brand got in Philly(5yr 82mill).


They also need a pg.

I'm hoping, with the draft, that Scottie Reynolds, PG from Villanova, falls the Knicks. I also woudl love if we bought a draft pick from another team and drafted Connecticut's PF, Stanley Robinson.

Also, b/c most likely Curry will exercise his option for the 2010-2011, find a way to trade Curry(and his expiring contract) to a team with a plethora of PG talent, in order to acquire a starting PG.

Teams with PG talent on the roster: Portland(I would love to acquire the Andre Miller IMO), Nets(if they can get John Wall, they can trade Devin Harris), Bobcats(Maybe for Felton), Spurs(If there was any ANY way we can acquire Tony Parker for Eddie Curry, i'd be a pig in ****).

Potential 2010-2011 Knicks lineup:

C) A'Mare
PF) Al Harrington/S.Robinson
SF) D'Gallanari/ W.Chandler(6th man)
SG) J.Johnson/T.Douglass
PG) Tony Parker/S.Reynolds

Other spots will be just filler acquisitions.. maybe resign Al Harrington(similar contract to what Ariza got),etc...

Lakerfan In NY
02-19-2010, 10:49 AM
This is probably the smartest move the Knick have done since the Oakley trade. First, you have to understand that the Knicks have been in rebuilding mode for YEARS. But instead of doing what they did yesterday & start over from ground zero, they usually pick up aging, stars w/ huge contracts. The Knicks have been known as the old NBA Players retirement home (were aging stars go to collect their last checks.) but a brand new day in Knicks history happen yesterday. They started using their brains & finally said “they were losing, its time to clean home & start over.) Forget about whom they can get. Be excited that FINALLY the Knicks can get someone worth having & still have enough to surround them w/ talent.

Good Job. Finally

PS: who says that the Knick have to sign two max players. Why not 1 max & a bundle of good players. use Curry expiring contract to land another superstar. But that brings me back to my point. the Knicks FINALLY GOT OPTIONS

masalex1205
02-19-2010, 11:04 AM
Wow, people don't get it. The Knicks have mortgaged their future for right now. They have to get 2 out of 3 of James/Bosh. Amare and Joe Johnson aren;t going to be able to solve the problem in NY because the knicks don't have the picks or money after they sign those two to surround them with talent. They are going to be a crappy team. ANd what do crappy teams have to look forward to? --> draft picks. BUT NY doesn't have any draft picks anymore

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-19-2010, 11:14 AM
I dont see why people dont understand that if Wade, leBron or Bosh doesnt resign they lose about 30 mil in contract money. And like the article says if either of those guys leave their teams it would most likely be done in sign and trades. And Houston has assets now to get in done. And NY really doesnt anymore.

Lets say NY signs to major free agents they have no money to sign David Lee to the money he wants and after this year probably deserves.

are you kidding me, NY doesn't have enough money???

JayAllDay
02-19-2010, 11:19 AM
The biggest deal is that the Knicks gave up picks and did not take on dead weight salary.

If anything Sacramento didn't really get much for Kevin Martin.

sep11ie
02-19-2010, 11:26 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4924836

I thought you couldn't trade consecutive first rounders.

You can't. 2011 is swapping 1st rounders.

torontosports10
02-19-2010, 11:29 AM
To be honest, without their first rounder this year, the lower between themselves and rockets next year, and without 2012, they better hope they get AT LEAST one of LeBron,Wade or Bosh.

Then add one from the 2nd tier such as Johnson,Boozer etc.

I cant see two of Bron,Wade and Bosh going, as all three want as much money as they can (if they leave it will be S+T) and they all want to be franchise guys.

icon1914
02-19-2010, 11:32 AM
This is probably the smartest move the Knick have done since the Oakley trade. First, you have to understand that the Knicks have been in rebuilding mode for YEARS. But instead of doing what they did yesterday & start over from ground zero, they usually pick up aging, stars w/ huge contracts. The Knicks have been known as the old NBA Players retirement home (were aging stars go to collect their last checks.) but a brand new day in Knicks history happen yesterday. They started using their brains & finally said “they were losing, its time to clean home & start over.) Forget about whom they can get. Be excited that FINALLY the Knicks can get someone worth having & still have enough to surround them w/ talent.

Good Job. Finally

PS: who says that the Knick have to sign two max players. Why not 1 max & a bundle of good players. use Curry expiring contract to land another superstar. But that brings me back to my point. the Knicks FINALLY GOT OPTIONS

I would agree with you 100% if the Knicks just let contracts expire... but they were not in that position... so they made trades to move contracts... At first it was alright, but tp give up your rookie and 2 first round picks to get someone to eat a bad contract? That puts the Knicks in a very bad situation.

I look at teams like LA that improved though a major acquisition in signing a young Shaq. The LA team gave up nothing and was already a playoff contender, plus they had a first round pick. It took some years to smooth it out, but they added a superstar to a very strong young core... NY does not have a 1st pick in the next 3 years... they have no legitimate PG... all they have is cap room and two promising players in Gallo and Chandler ( TD has not stepped up as of yet)... they also have the expiring contract of Curry that might play a part in all of this... but that is about the extent to their flexibility.

I think NYC biggest advantage is that they are the ONLY team that can sign 2 top level FAs, but they also seem to have the team with the smallest amount of assets to entice a player to want to come there. To be honest, they are like the Wizards now ( who still have their picks)... The Clips have a very solid core, Chicago is probably one player away from being a contender, the Heat could become a very good team if they got a Bosh or James there. I mean the Knicks are in no way leading this pack.

No matter how you figure this, Trading your future for the chance of signing 2 max FAs is a huge gamble. If everything works out right great.... but if things go wrong then what do we have to look forward to... 2013?

pebloemer
02-19-2010, 11:35 AM
I hope they sign rudy gay and bosh. Also the have bird rights for lee and keeping those rights will allow them to sign TWO max players and resign lee. Plus didn't the knicks get the celtics 1st rnd this year with the nate trade. I also likethe guy walker they got, he was a beast a K State. If he wasn't hurt I think wouldve been better then beasley.

Anyway stop hating cause walsh did what he wanted to, get enough room to sign 2 big names. Plus you're forgetting that if 10 is a bust the free agents in 11 are strong too and the knicks will have money then too.

I'm pretty sure they would need to give up those bird rights in order to sign the second max free agent.

Hustla23
02-19-2010, 11:42 AM
It was a calculated risk.

If New York gets its two stars this summer, then they most likely won't have to swap picks in 2011 and they will have a late 20's pick in 2012. They can just buy a pick in the late 20's to replace the one they lost, so it's as if they only gave up Jordan Hill to shed Jeffries and acquire two max level players.

mike_noodles
02-19-2010, 11:44 AM
Speaking of assets, one thing people shouldn't forget is that both Cleveland and Toronto each have the bird rights to one of the superstars. Who's to say they aren't positioning themselves to line up one of the other superstars. Both teams will have some very nice assets to give up to get that other star. B-Co is a very active GM and seems to always have something up his sleeve. He was able to put a lineup together in Phoenix that included Nash, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire.

Big Quett
02-19-2010, 11:50 AM
are you kidding me, NY doesn't have enough money???

If you sign 2 max players which i dont think they wil. That is going to be 30 mil. What is left for Lee and the 5 other players they are going to have to sign to fill out the roster?

They only have like 5 players signed for next year?

Young2Kinsler
02-19-2010, 11:52 AM
It was a calculated risk.

If New York gets its two stars this summer, then they most likely won't have to swap picks in 2011 and they will have a late 20's pick in 2012. They can just buy a pick in the late 20's to replace the one they lost, so it's as if they only gave up Jordan Hill to shed Jeffries and acquire two max level players.

But it is a HUGE stretch and highly unlikely that they land 2 of the players everyone is discussing. It's not like NY is the only team in a good position.

Blackjack24
02-19-2010, 12:35 PM
It'll probably end up with NY getting one top shelf FA, and one just below. Maybe Bosh and Johnson is my guess? But I find it unlikely they'll land 2 of the super elites.

cheezinmypocket
02-19-2010, 12:38 PM
It'll probably end up with NY getting one top shelf FA, and one just below. Maybe Bosh and Johnson is my guess? But I find it unlikely they'll land 2 of the super elites.

I'll make a wager with anyone here that the Knicks don't land Wade/Bosh/Lebron via free agency.

The best they can hope for is throwing a max contract at Amare... the one player that really doesn't deserve it.

icon1914
02-19-2010, 12:50 PM
Another thing that will mess the Knicks, and other teams, up this summer is the overpaying of talent. There are number of teams with cap space, but only three top tier FAs... that means once Bosh/James/Wade are off the table there will still be teams with money itching to make a deal.

Who is to say that Lee, Boozer, Johnson, and Amar'e don't land max contracts due to fan pressure to make a move. So even if we, the Knicks, miss out on the top three, we might end up over paying for the next tier of players. its one thing to cap yourself out for Bosh and James... but for Boozer and Rudy Gay?

This is a huge gamble.

arkanian215
02-19-2010, 01:11 PM
You can't. 2011 is swapping 1st rounders.

so technically you could give 4 consecutive firsts with 2 "swaps."

PlezPlayDKnicks
02-19-2010, 01:11 PM
Its never a failure to have FA money. If we strike out who's to say that we will throw mega bucks at some1 who doesnt deserve it. Last I checked 2011 we get eddy off the books and there are quality free agents next year as well. So with being under the cap we can trade outright with any1 willing to part with a free agent next year. Our goal is lebron and company but even if we strike out we are no different than any other team. Last I checked only 1 team wins a championship per year. So if your not the lakers or the cavs or possibly the mavs or boston. Your stuck just like us just with better talent.

Wizard of O's
02-19-2010, 01:24 PM
My guess is it will take the Rockets 2010 first round pick, 2012 first round pick, Kevin Martin and the expirings of Shane Battier, Jared Jeffries to land LeBron or Wade in a sign-and-trade.

It's going to be awfully tough for Walsh to convince LeBron to leave a championship contender and take 30 million less on a new contract outright and also convince him that he can do the same with Wade or Bosh and then convince one of them.

It's probably going to take a S&T to lure them away and I don't see the Knicks having the pieces with no first rounders the next 3 years and 11 of the 15 man roster expiring at the end of the season.

They would definately have to give up David Lee in a S&T, Chandler, Gallinari and Douglas and I'm not sure even that would be as attractive as what the Rockets could offer.

And then you're looking at them having 2 players under contract (LeBron and Curry) and having to sign an entire new roster with the remaining money. It could be a real mess. Glad I'm not in Donnie Walsh's shoes.

KnicksR4Real
02-19-2010, 01:41 PM
You guys are so stupid,
first of all
all you haters are either from Cleveland Toronto or Miami
weird huh
watch us play because Gallo has alot of potential
oh yea i think David Lee was an allstar!

arkanian215
02-19-2010, 01:48 PM
Its never a failure to have FA money. If we strike out who's to say that we will throw mega bucks at some1 who doesnt deserve it. Last I checked 2011 we get eddy off the books and there are quality free agents next year as well. So with being under the cap we can trade outright with any1 willing to part with a free agent next year. Our goal is lebron and company but even if we strike out we are no different than any other team. Last I checked only 1 team wins a championship per year. So if your not the lakers or the cavs or possibly the mavs or boston. Your stuck just like us just with better talent.

sure if you wanna wait another year and have a team of curry, chandler, douglas, and gallo + ? for one year.

JasonJohnHorn
02-19-2010, 01:54 PM
I'm not sure Walsh got "outsmarted" so much as there is law of physics that dicates all new york knicks general managers MUST TRADE ALL FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS!!!! And I mean of all the ones to keep: Gallanari? Gallanari? For real? WHAT TEH FRACK!!!!

And has anybody stopped to imagine what might happen if New York dont sign any big free agents this year? Bosh, Wade, James, Johnson, Amare, they may all stay with the teams they are on (since they can all pay more money and the new CBA may limit contract legnths and maxs), and Miami and Chi-town are in a position to pick up a big free agent (like Boozer or Amare). New York has put evey single egg in one basket and it could see them fall flat on theri face.

I'm not wishing New York fans ill, but I would like to see these dumb @$$ moves come back to hit this management team in the face.

Well... at least there is always McGrady, and they can keep his Larry Bird rights if they want to. Can you imagine that: a score-first play maker on the Knicks? It worked so well with Marbury and Francis!

PlezPlayDKnicks
02-19-2010, 01:56 PM
Id rather wait than force it to make impatient fans happy. Im tired of losin but I'll suffer for another year if necessary if need be. Id rather have money than picks because how many players to teams develop only to bolt for greener pastures.

BkOriginalOne
02-19-2010, 01:57 PM
IMO, he got kevin Martin, so he won.

IndyRealist
02-19-2010, 02:05 PM
This was the dumbest article I have ever read on PSD. I am not saying one has to praise the Knicks , but you do have to give credit to where it is due. Stop acting like Lebron, Bosh, and Wade are the only available free agents this summer. It is an absolute blessing that the Knicks got rid of Jeffries contract to free up more money for the summer. With Curry's contract expiring next season, the Knicks look to be in a very good position for years to come.

What the article is saying is that if Lebron signs in NYC for the max, he's losing the extra year of his contract that Cleveland can give him. Now if he executes a sign and trade with the Rockets, they can send back draft picks, role players, young talent, and exprings. The Knicks can't. So if Lebron wants that extra year, he'll choose to go to Houston rather than New York.

Sports Illustrator
02-19-2010, 02:20 PM
If the major free agents stay put I see the Knicks getting Boozer. This guy is all about the money and NY will have a bunch of it.

You mean Joe Johnson. He already expressed interest in playing for NY too. I think at the very least, he's the one going to NY if none of the other free agents can be acquired.

Jay22Redd
02-19-2010, 02:45 PM
Honestly, I think both teams did good. Rockets got the better deal imo though. But we are just looking for one big which is either Bosh or Amaré. I think we are going to do a sign&trade for the same players we just tried to get for Amaré right before the deadline.

I'm not. Knicks fan but I like to see the most historic teams looking good. I hope NYK get Joe Johnson and Amare. They've played together before, Joe Johnson has already said he loves the coach and its a good system. This summer is going to be interesting. Plus, I think Bron is staying in Cleveland or going to Brooklyn and Wade is going home to Chicago........Just my opinion.

koreancabbage
02-19-2010, 02:48 PM
What the article is saying is that if Lebron signs in NYC for the max, he's losing the extra year of his contract that Cleveland can give him. Now if he executes a sign and trade with the Rockets, they can send back draft picks, role players, young talent, and exprings. The Knicks can't. So if Lebron wants that extra year, he'll choose to go to Houston rather than New York.

this

New York can't offer him the EXTRA YEAR and the EXTRA $$ by themselves. They need a sign and trade- but after they got pillaged by the Rockets, who got New York's tradeable assets, who the F would sign with New York? New York would have to trade David Lee and Chandler for one of the big free agents.

All i know, Bosh, Wade and Lebron are not going to leave $30 Million dollars on the table so they can just play in New York for the sake of it.

Jay22Redd
02-19-2010, 02:48 PM
Honestly, I think both teams did good. Rockets got the better deal imo though. But we are just looking for one big which is either Bosh or Amaré. I think we are going to do a sign&trade for the same players we just tried to get for Amaré right before the deadline.

I'm not. Knicks fan but I like to see the most historic teams looking good. I hope NYK get Joe Johnson and Amare. They've played together before, Joe Johnson has already said he loves the coach and its a good system. This summer is going to be interesting. Plus, I think Bron is staying in Cleveland or going to Brooklyn and Wade is going home to Chicago........Just my opinion.

sintaks12
02-19-2010, 03:01 PM
this

New York can't offer him the EXTRA YEAR and the EXTRA $$ by themselves. They need a sign and trade- but after they got pillaged by the Rockets, who got New York's tradeable assets, who the F would sign with New York? New York would have to trade David Lee and Chandler for one of the big free agents.

All i know, Bosh, Wade and Lebron are not going to leave $30 Million dollars on the table so they can just play in New York for the sake of it.

I would have agreed with you on Wednesday. "Just to play in New York" wasn't enough. But the chance to team up with another superstar? How often does that opportunity come around? NY is in a great position to make it happen. That's worth what they gave up imo. NY, Miami, Chicago... man Danny Ferry is freakin out right now. And please don't tell me that 34 yr. old Antoine Jamison gets the Cavs over the hump. I wonder if Lebron will shake Kobe's hand after he gets spanked by the Lakers? (That's IF they get past Atlanta.)

FOBolous
02-19-2010, 03:03 PM
no. both GMs achieve their respective goals. DM cleaned house and completely rebuilt a team around Yao for a championship run next year. Walsh cleared cap space to place NYC in the best possible position for the team to start over next year. Doesn't matter if NY doesn't get Lebron or Bosh next year..because they're going to get two all-stars next years with their huge cap space either way. as a Rockets fan, i hope that doesn't happen so we can take advantage of their 1st round pick but unfortunately, logic says that will happen.

Lakerfan In NY
02-19-2010, 03:04 PM
I would agree with you 100% if the Knicks just let contracts expire... but they were not in that position... so they made trades to move contracts... At first it was alright, but tp give up your rookie and 2 first round picks to get someone to eat a bad contract? That puts the Knicks in a very bad situation.

I look at teams like LA that improved though a major acquisition in signing a young Shaq. The LA team gave up nothing and was already a playoff contender, plus they had a first round pick. It took some years to smooth it out, but they added a superstar to a very strong young core... NY does not have a 1st pick in the next 3 years... they have no legitimate PG... all they have is cap room and two promising players in Gallo and Chandler ( TD has not stepped up as of yet)... they also have the expiring contract of Curry that might play a part in all of this... but that is about the extent to their flexibility.

I think NYC biggest advantage is that they are the ONLY team that can sign 2 top level FAs, but they also seem to have the team with the smallest amount of assets to entice a player to want to come there. To be honest, they are like the Wizards now ( who still have their picks)... The Clips have a very solid core, Chicago is probably one player away from being a contender, the Heat could become a very good team if they got a Bosh or James there. I mean the Knicks are in no way leading this pack.

No matter how you figure this, Trading your future for the chance of signing 2 max FAs is a huge gamble. If everything works out right great.... but if things go wrong then what do we have to look forward to... 2013?

I think too much stock are put onto using draft picks to rebuild your team. For every LBJ,Wade,Melo there's a Olowakandi,Fizer,R. Swift & Millicic. High draft picks have never guarntee a team success. So keeping when as if they were gold is a little silly. It's a lottery & you can come up on the short end of the stick (which usually happens.) Besides the LBJ/Wade/Melo draft, the top 5 picks in each draft are at best, solid NBA players w/ a couple of studs here and there. I think as a team you never want to reply of draft picks b/c draft picks equals team failure.

dRa1niNg_ 3s
02-19-2010, 03:35 PM
I think too much stock are put onto using draft picks to rebuild your team. For every LBJ,Wade,Melo there's a Olowakandi,Fizer,R. Swift & Millicic. High draft picks have never guarntee a team success. So keeping when as if they were gold is a little silly. It's a lottery & you can come up on the short end of the stick (which usually happens.) Besides the LBJ/Wade/Melo draft, the top 5 picks in each draft are at best, solid NBA players w/ a couple of studs here and there. I think as a team you never want to reply of draft picks b/c draft picks equals team failure.


Lol not if you're D. Morey dude can draft players, then the Rockets develop them and keep them or trade them away for much higher value. Who knows he can possibly draft the next Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili.

cheezinmypocket
02-19-2010, 05:52 PM
You guys are so stupid,
first of all
all you haters are either from Cleveland Toronto or Miami
weird huh
watch us play because Gallo has alot of potential
oh yea i think David Lee was an allstar!

We are all so stupid.

Because you NY Knick fans all think you are getting our superstar... so of course we hate you.

Gallo has some potential.

And David Lee was a replacement..... not a real allstar.

koreancabbage
02-19-2010, 05:58 PM
We are all so stupid.

Because you NY Knick fans all think you are getting our superstar... so of course we hate you.

Gallo has some potential.

And David Lee was a replacement..... not a real allstar.

oh wait for the masses now :shush:

cheezinmypocket
02-19-2010, 06:00 PM
oh wait for the masses now :shush:

Haha. They can't tell me that I'm wrong.

FarOutIos
02-19-2010, 06:36 PM
The biggest deal is that the Knicks gave up picks and did not take on dead weight salary.

If anything Sacramento didn't really get much for Kevin Martin.

As a kings fan... i agree. I hope that Landry is starter quality. The only other thing that the deal gave us is cap relief... so we better sign a good player as well. We are now one of 8 teams with $20 million is cap space for next year. We would have had closer to $12 million I think...

PlezPlayDKnicks
02-19-2010, 06:42 PM
aLLEN IVERSON WAS NOT AN ALL STAR.... SO LEE REALLY WAS AN ALL STAR AND MANY CAN ARGUE THAT HE DESERVED TO BE VOTED OVER AL HORFORD. BUT IM NOT GONNA ARGUE WITH YOU. CONGRATS TO TORONTO. YOUR HAVING A GOOD YEAR AND ARE TAKING UR FRUSTRATIONS OF POSSIBLY LOSING BOSH TO US OR WHOEVER OUT ON THE KNICKS. WE SUCK AND MIGHT POSSIBLY SUCK IF WE STRIKE OUT. BUT IM RIDIN WITH MY TEAM NO MATTER WHAT.