PDA

View Full Version : Best player in the NBA not named LeBron or Kobe



C-Van
02-11-2010, 01:32 AM
Alright, so the discussion for best player in the NBA is almost always centered around Kobe vs. LeBron...and rightfully so. But, who in your eyes is the best player in the game RIGHT NOW, not 3 or 4 years from now...so who do you think the best non-Kobe, non-LeBron player is in the game at this point in time.

Try to stray away from players on your fave team if you can, we all know every Raptors fan thinks Bosh is the best, every Hornets fan thinks Paul is the best, etc. So try and go out on a limb and not pick players on your team.

willthethrill22
02-11-2010, 01:42 AM
I think a tie between wade and paul

showtym24
02-11-2010, 01:43 AM
Kevin Durant and Dwayne wade.

Dying2live
02-11-2010, 01:45 AM
Dwight Howard.

Raph12
02-11-2010, 01:46 AM
Gonna go with Dwight Howard, most upside and his effect on the game is unrivalled by anyone not named Lebron or Kobe.

Durant can't drive, Wade can't shoot and Paul needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time to be effective.

ko8e24
02-11-2010, 01:47 AM
Mike James-Wizards

/thread

RocketsRule
02-11-2010, 01:48 AM
Kevin Durant and Dwayne wade.

I'll take D-Wade right now, but I won't be surprised if I'm saying KD next season.

lakerboy
02-11-2010, 01:48 AM
Durant and Howard.

Wade has been disappointing this year. Well he's not awful, but he isn't as good as he was last year.

ManRam
02-11-2010, 01:50 AM
Gonna go with Dwight Howard, most upside and his effect on the game is unrivalled by anyone not named Lebron or Kobe.

Durant can't drive, Wade can't shoot and Paul needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time to be effective.

I agree. There are things you can say Dwight can't do however...but I'll let someone else touch upon that. Wade is #4. Paul is #5 then KD.

I'm so happy we're friends now :love:

Vinny642
02-11-2010, 01:51 AM
Other than Paul(since I am a Hornets fan)

Best all around- Wade
More Valuable- Dwight

jacquewho?
02-11-2010, 01:53 AM
Kevin Durant has emerged as non-human this season. It's probably between him and DWade. Can't leave Dwight Howard out of the discussion though. Although I think Wade deserves no.3, with Howard right behind him and Durant moving up fast.

Raph12
02-11-2010, 01:57 AM
I agree. There are things you can say Dwight can't do however...but I'll let someone else touch upon that. Wade is #4. Paul is #5 then KD.

I'm so happy we're friends now :love:

Lmao, yeah me too I guess... you're not gonna get all clingy on me now right?

Btw Dwight's shown great improvement and is starting to look like the total package, his defense is untouchable and his low post game is finally looking strong enough to anchor our offense... Now if he could just cut down on the offensive fouls and silly turnovers, he'd be set.

Sadds The Gr8
02-11-2010, 01:57 AM
Gonna go with Dwight Howard, most upside and his effect on the game is unrivalled by anyone not named Lebron or Kobe.

Durant can't drive, Wade can't shoot and Paul needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time to be effective.

well in that case, howard has no left, and has limited post moves...if you're gonna bring negativity on wade, durant and paul, at least bring some on howard....don't be a homer...


but IMO, I think it is Wade because no one in the league can take over a game like him, other than lebron and kobe. durant is a close 4th, and i put CP3 behind Durant for now because he been injured too much this year.

fairandbalanced
02-11-2010, 01:57 AM
Kobe is not even better than Wade....this tread is biased.

bal_ravens
02-11-2010, 02:00 AM
^Im sorry, what?

C-Van
02-11-2010, 02:04 AM
It really comes down to Dwight Howard and Chris Paul for me, and I'm going to say Chris Paul, he shoots a whooping 51% for a point guard, and yes, he does need to have the ball in his hands for most of the game. Yet somehow he averages a WHOLE turnover less than Howard per game. Plus Chris doesn't have one huge flaw to this game at this point (I'm not saying he is perfect, he just doesn't have one major flaw), while Dwight does have one...his free throw shooting, a career 60% FT shooter. I know Dwight does more things off the ball than Chris, but Chris does so much with the ball and he really does make his team's offense run. Plus, Paul had his favorite passing target traded away this offseason, yet he is still racking up 11 assists per night.

Both of them are studs, but I think Chris is slightly better at this point.

3. Chris Paul
4. Dwight Howard
5. D-Wade

Baller1
02-11-2010, 02:05 AM
Gonna go with Dwight Howard, most upside and his effect on the game is unrivalled by anyone not named Lebron or Kobe.

Durant can't drive, Wade can't shoot and Paul needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time to be effective.

I've noticed you're a pretty intelligent poster here.

But that was the most unintelligent thing I've ever seen you say.

Raph12
02-11-2010, 02:06 AM
well in that case, howard has no left, and has limited post moves...if you're gonna bring negativity on wade, durant and paul, at least bring some on howard....don't be a homer...


but IMO, I think it is Wade because no one in the league can take over a game like him, other than lebron and kobe. durant is a close 4th, and i put CP3 behind Durant for now because he been injured too much this year.

Dwight has the one of the best lefty hooks in the league and his post moves are definitely coming along nicely. When you're as athletic as he is, you don't have to finesse it every time down the court when you can just power your way for dunks.

Watch him play against stronger/better defenders (Perkins, Bynum, Shaq, etc...) those are games where he'll pull moves out of his arsenel. Nights like tonight, against guys like Brad Miller and Richard (who is this guy anyways?), he will power his way in or just use his agility/speed to get to the basket.

LayZbone
02-11-2010, 02:09 AM
Durant and Howard.

Wade has been disappointing this year. Well he's not awful, but he isn't as good as he was last year.

He has taken a dip, but Wade set the bar really damn high on a flawless season last year. I still think he's all around a top 3 player. Durant has bulldozed into the discussion though.....the kid is pretty incredible.

Wade and Kobe are very close statistically this season, except for the big stat (the Ws).

basketball-reference (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2010&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010)

Sadds The Gr8
02-11-2010, 02:10 AM
Dwight has the one of the best lefty hooks in the league and his post moves are definitely coming along nicely. When you're as athletic as he is, you don't have to finesse it every time down the court when you can just power your way for dunks.

Watch him play against stronger/better defenders (Perkins, Bynum, Shaq, etc...) those are games where he'll pull moves out of his arsenel. Nights like tonight, against guys like Brad Miller and Richard (who is this guy anyways?), he will power his way in or just use his agility/speed to get to the basket.

I admit, rebounding and defending wise, he is up there, but scoring wise he is a long way away. I am more scared of Dwyane Wade going off on my team than Dwight Howard any day.

_KB24_
02-11-2010, 02:15 AM
Dwight. If I had to pick one player to build around for the future, I'd choose Dwight in a heartbeat.

Raph12
02-11-2010, 02:30 AM
I admit, rebounding and defending wise, he is up there, but scoring wise he is a long way away. I am more scared of Dwyane Wade going off on my team than Dwight Howard any day.

You shouldn't be, your Raps are 2-1 vs the Heat and only 1-3 vs the Magic... and Dwight goes off on you guys every time.

Don't get me wrong, Dwight's never gonna lead the league in scoring or anything, but his impact on a game is much larger than Wade's ever will be. The way I look at it is this; Wade will win his team games, Dwight will win his team series... Game over!

Sadds The Gr8
02-11-2010, 02:31 AM
Dwight. If I had to pick one player to build around for the future, I'd choose Dwight in a heartbeat.

LOL @ your sig....I saw that post under the Dwight's baby mama thread, and i LOL'ed:laugh:

Sadds The Gr8
02-11-2010, 02:35 AM
You shouldn't be, your Raps are 2-1 vs the Heat and only 1-3 vs the Magic... and Dwight goes off on you guys every time.

Don't get me wrong, Dwight's never gonna lead the league in scoring or anything, but his impact on a game is much larger than Wade's ever will be. The way I look at it is this; Wade will win his team games, Dwight will win his team series... Game over!

yea but when we face orlando the 3 pt shooting is what usually kills us. I am worried about the 3 pt shooting first, not Dwight when we face Orlando. Our coaching staff didn't realize this until the last game between us, and it turned out that letting Howard go 1v1 with Bargnani worked out better than collapsing on Howard and letting the 3s kill us. That game should've been a blow out but in the 4th quarter, for some reason we started doubling D12 again and the 3 pt shooters brought you guys back into it not Howard, which is why I am not that scared of facing him.

However when D-Wade has a huge game, or is "on fire", the Heat win almost every time. You have to remember the Heat have a pretty crap roster...just imagine if wade had another guy capable of putting in 20 ppg every night, so he would have less pressure on him...Wade would be a killer...the guy averages 7-8 apg with scrubs on his team.

And remember, I didn't say I'd rather face Orlando than Miami...I just said that when we face either of those teams, I am more afraid of wade than howard.

Lakers4ItAll
02-11-2010, 02:42 AM
Howard
Wade
Melo

lavilevi23
02-11-2010, 02:43 AM
Wade. lmao @ people sayin Howard or Paul... Howard got 0 post moves. Hell I'd take Bynum over him if he wasnt so injury prone... I won't be surprised though if I see Durant over Wade in a couple of years.

Vee-Rex
02-11-2010, 02:56 AM
Howard
Wade
Melo

I was surprised to see that you're the only one that mentioned Melo.

Overall? I'd probably have to give it to Wade. His defense is better than Durant's. It's a tough decision between Wade, Howard, CP3, Durant, and Carmelo.

Also, while I say CP3 is the best point guard I think Rondo is close. Rondo does so much amazing stuff that isn't in the stat books.

Raph12
02-11-2010, 03:02 AM
yea but when we face orlando the 3 pt shooting is what usually kills us. I am worried about the 3 pt shooting first, not Dwight when we face Orlando. Our coaching staff didn't realize this until the last game between us, and it turned out that letting Howard go 1v1 with Bargnani worked out better than collapsing on Howard and letting the 3s kill us. That game should've been a blow out but in the 4th quarter, for some reason we started doubling D12 again and the 3 pt shooters brought you guys back into it not Howard, which is why I am not that scared of facing him.

However when D-Wade has a huge game, or is "on fire", the Heat win almost every time. You have to remember the Heat have a pretty crap roster...just imagine if wade had another guy capable of putting in 20 ppg every night, so he would have less pressure on him...Wade would be a killer...the guy averages 7-8 apg with scrubs on his team.

And remember, I didn't say I'd rather face Orlando than Miami...I just said that when we face either of those teams, I am more afraid of wade than howard.

Dwight gets his against Bargnani or Bosh with ease and you forget that VC went 2-7 in that game. Factor in VC for about 15-20pts, the Magic not missing open shots and Dwight getting guys into foul trouble early and often, and you should be scared to play us.

Your right in the sense that Dwight on offense isn't more deadly than Wade, but IMO, Wade is overrated. After a great season, a lot of fans are jumping on his nuts and saying he's so lethal and he can take over, blah, blah, blah. Well I've yet to see him take over a game this season and quite frankly, if ranking scorers, he barely makes my Top 5: Melo, Durant, Kobe, Lebron and then Wade.

Dwight can dominate games on both ends and change opponents offensive play with his intimidating presence down low. His impact on the game leads me to give him the nod over Wade.

uncleben989
02-11-2010, 03:17 AM
kevin durant fo sho and hes only 21

homer pick - bosh, but its not as unrealistic as it was in seasons past, bosh is in the top 10 for sure IMO

Mochalman
02-11-2010, 03:28 AM
melo or durant

tbarb20
02-11-2010, 04:04 AM
Gonna go with Dwight Howard, most upside and his effect on the game is unrivalled by anyone not named Lebron or Kobe.

Durant can't drive, Wade can't shoot and Paul needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time to be effective.

^^ this guy is on crack. Durante is excellent at driving. Wade can shoot. And chris Paul is a point guard. Of course he needs the ball

jwn0303
02-11-2010, 04:11 AM
3. Melo
4. Paul
5. Wade

Master Mind
02-11-2010, 04:38 AM
Wade
Melo
Durant
Paul
Howard
Bosh
Dirk

Zefflin
02-11-2010, 05:38 AM
3. Melo
D12
Wade
CP3
Durant

The 3 bolded are so close and interchangable, matter of fact, they all are within 5 points of each other if it were NBA Live.

jwn0303
02-11-2010, 05:40 AM
Anyone that says Dwight Howard is just plain wrong. I like the guy, but come on. He has no offensive game. He's a great rebounder, and he's a great HELP defender. To the contrary though, his post moves are severely lacking, he relies on getting fouled, yet he is an awful free throw shooter. He is an overrated player. If he gets the calls of a regular player, he then becomes just an ordinary offensive threat that is freakishly athletic.

alencp3
02-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Right now Durant,cuz CP3 is injured. Wade is dissapointing so far.

Tribe
02-11-2010, 10:21 AM
would say wade, melo, or durant....howard is definately up there but he still has to many games with 11 pts and 6 reb's where it seems he is a non factor...atleast stat wise

RadiantShot
02-11-2010, 10:23 AM
God. ManRam is cheating on me now. -_-"

td0tsfinest
02-11-2010, 11:08 AM
Wade

macc
02-11-2010, 11:24 AM
I'll say Howard and I don't consider that a homer pic. I just think he has a bigger "impact" on a game then D Wade who I think is 4th.

Howard is once again leading the NBA in rebounds and blocks. Plus he's 2nd in the NBA in fg%. He makes every player they're facing on the opposing team think twice about driving to the basket.

I used to rag on Howards game but he's slowly shutting me up this year. His post moves are looking more and more polished every game and he's just playing better basketball all around.

All in all, for a guy to have the impact he does on both offense and defense gives him the edge imo.

macc
02-11-2010, 11:34 AM
Anyone that says Dwight Howard is just plain wrong. I like the guy, but come on. He has no offensive game. He's a great rebounder, and he's a great HELP defender. To the contrary though, his post moves are severely lacking, he relies on getting fouled, yet he is an awful free throw shooter. He is an overrated player. If he gets the calls of a regular player, he then becomes just an ordinary offensive threat that is freakishly athletic.



The guy is averaging 18 ppg on 60% shooting. He's obviously doing something right on offense. Obviously you haven't watched a Magic game in sometime, or at all perhaps.

His post moves are alot better then people would think. As I said before. Have you watched a single Magic game this year? Do you think his rebounding is overrated as well?

I'm sorry man but he has more of an impact on the game then 99% of the players in this league.

There's a ton of scorers in this league. Right now you have 9-10 players averaging 23+ ppg. You have 22 players averaging 20+ ppg. Scorers are a dime a dozen. Finding somone who can control the offense and defense is rare. You can call people "overrated" as much as you want. You're not the one facing him night in and night out. When you got a coach like PHil Jackson saying he would take Howard over Lebron, that says something. Wheather you agree or disagree with that.

wakikisurfer
02-11-2010, 12:16 PM
Pau Gasol!!!! Prior to coming to L.A. he was a stud. I'd say he has taken a back seat to Kobe but really he is the ultimate team player and has found a way to be the superglue to the Lakers. The other night on Television the announcer said the Lakers are 113 wins and 24 losses with Pau in the lineup for the Lakers. That's a superstars influence. Look at the last 2 games for Pau. Against Utah 22 points, 19 rebounds ,5 blocks, 4 assists, and 1 steal. The game prior versus Portland he had 21 points, 19 rebounds, 8 assists, 5 blocks, and 1 steal. Can anyone else find me someone besides Lebron who has put up back to back stats like this, this season???????

Wilson
02-11-2010, 12:49 PM
God. ManRam is cheating on me now. -_-"

I secretly have a mancrush on Raph, so I feel somewhat jilted as well. You're not alone RadiantShot...

As for the topic - I can agree with Dwight Howard. His offensive growth is so far under the radar it's not even funny. While he's seeing the ball less, he's shooting the highest FG% of his career and second highest FT% of his career. He needs to get the turn-overs down though, if he can translate some of those into shot attempts it will be big.

I don't think Kevin Durant is quite there yet. His offense is looking pretty good, but he still needs to improve his defense. He'll get there, but he's still got some growing to do.

One name I don't think has been mentioned enough is Carmelo Anthony. His offense has always been great, but I don't think his defensive improvements have been documented enough.

macc
02-11-2010, 12:51 PM
Anyone that says Dwight Howard is just plain wrong. I like the guy, but come on. He has no offensive game. He's a great rebounder, and he's a great HELP defender. To the contrary though, his post moves are severely lacking, he relies on getting fouled, yet he is an awful free throw shooter. He is an overrated player. If he gets the calls of a regular player, he then becomes just an ordinary offensive threat that is freakishly athletic.



I always laugh when I see this because it just shows the ignorance of some fans. Ok you say he's only a great "help" defender. Check out these stats of opposing Centers facing Dwight.

Brad Miller 1-7 - 2 pts
Okafor - 0-4 - 0 pts
Perkins - 1-3 - 2 pts
Haywood - 2-4 - 5pts
Bogut - 5-11 - 10 pts
Ben Wallace 2-4 - 4 pts
M Gasol - 5-8 - 19pts
Perkins - 1-2 - 4 pts
Mohammed - 5-9 - 12 pts
Brockman - 3-7 - 6pts
Hibbert - 0-2 - 3pts
Bynum - 4-7 - 8pts
Howard - 4-9 - 8pts


These are some of the stats of the opposing Centers facing Dwight Howard. I didn't nit pick these stats. These are the previous games he's played. I'm not saying these guys are elite scorers but Howard consistantly keeps 90% of the players he defends against below their average. Just sayin...

Raph12
02-11-2010, 12:51 PM
^^ this guy is on crack. Durante is excellent at driving. Wade can shoot. And chris Paul is a point guard. Of course he needs the ball

Durant is too much of a shooter and only tries to drive when he has an open lane, Wade bricks more shots than anyone in the Top 10 for scoring and have you ever seen Billups or Kidd play a game, last I checked they were PGs too, but they could play off-ball as well. Notice how NO looks pretty good without CP3 and guys like Peja and MoPete look young and rejuvenated again, says a lot about him...

LRizzle
02-11-2010, 01:01 PM
Wade
Melo
Durant
Duncan>Howard

jim51990
02-11-2010, 01:14 PM
Durant for everyone saying Dwight I don't even think he's top 5 he has no offense at all people always say they don't give him the ball enough I think this is the case because he lacks any scoring skills

C-Van
02-11-2010, 01:22 PM
The guy is averaging 18 ppg on 60% shooting. He's obviously doing something right on offense. Obviously you haven't watched a Magic game in sometime, or at all perhaps.

His post moves are alot better then people would think. As I said before. Have you watched a single Magic game this year? Do you think his rebounding is overrated as well?

I'm sorry man but he has more of an impact on the game then 99% of the players in this league.

There's a ton of scorers in this league. Right now you have 9-10 players averaging 23+ ppg. You have 22 players averaging 20+ ppg. Scorers are a dime a dozen. Finding somone who can control the offense and defense is rare. You can call people "overrated" as much as you want. You're not the one facing him night in and night out. When you got a coach like PHil Jackson saying he would take Howard over Lebron, that says something. Wheather you agree or disagree with that.

The topic of the thread was best in the league though, no the most impact. And to me, the fact that he only scores 18 points a night on 60% shooting is what scares. If he really was the best (or third best) he find a way to be a more integral part of his team's offense. He is a good defender, and I think the best in the league after KObe, LeBron, and Paul...but if a guy just simply can't get enough touches from his offense despite his 60% shooting, to get 23-24 points a game, then there is no way I would consider him the best.

Pornstar86
02-11-2010, 01:24 PM
You shouldn't be, your Raps are 2-1 vs the Heat and only 1-3 vs the Magic... and Dwight goes off on you guys every time.

Don't get me wrong, Dwight's never gonna lead the league in scoring or anything, but his impact on a game is much larger than Wade's ever will be. The way I look at it is this; Wade will win his team games, Dwight will win his team series... Game over!

u must not know alot about Wade...did you not see Wade single handedly beat the Mavs for the championship...last i heard, Howard hasnt won a ring

btw, you said Wade cant shoot, yet has a career 48.1% fg...better than kobe (45.5%) and lebron (47.4%)...so im not too sure of your analysis

Wade was also 3rd on the defensive player of the year voting...he's 6'4" and is the only player in history to have at least 100 blocks and 100 steals in a season...Howard was 1st (6'10") and Lebron was 2nd (6'8")...so Wade is an all around stud, and should definitely be at least 3rd in the league

Master Mind
02-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Monta Ellis is highly underrated btw

macc
02-11-2010, 02:17 PM
The topic of the thread was best in the league though, no the most impact. And to me, the fact that he only scores 18 points a night on 60% shooting is what scares. If he really was the best (or third best) he find a way to be a more integral part of his team's offense. He is a good defender, and I think the best in the league after KObe, LeBron, and Paul...but if a guy just simply can't get enough touches from his offense despite his 60% shooting, to get 23-24 points a game, then there is no way I would consider him the best.



See this is the problem with today's fans. They only focus on offense. That's it. Having the impact on a game makes him the 3rd best player in the league, I don't understand why you think impact means nothing. Theres a ton of players in the game today who can score points. Scoring is great and all but theres two sides to a basketball game. Offense and defense. Defense isn't as flashy as offense and thats why uneducated fans base everything on offense. Kobe sets himself apart from Carter, Roy, Johnson because of his great defense. Yet all those players can score at will.

Basketball teams have to change their offensive game plan when facing Orlando because they know they won't be able to drive as much as they like to. When one player can make an entire team change their offense, doesn't that tell you somthing? Or are you still stuck on 26 ppg makes someone the greatest?

ElFuturoDeESPN
02-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Durantula and CP3.

Sadds The Gr8
02-11-2010, 02:37 PM
The topic of the thread was best in the league though, no the most impact. And to me, the fact that he only scores 18 points a night on 60% shooting is what scares. If he really was the best (or third best) he find a way to be a more integral part of his team's offense. He is a good defender, and I think the best in the league after KObe, LeBron, and Paul...but if a guy just simply can't get enough touches from his offense despite his 60% shooting, to get 23-24 points a game, then there is no way I would consider him the best.


Anyone that says Dwight Howard is just plain wrong. I like the guy, but come on. He has no offensive game. He's a great rebounder, and he's a great HELP defender. To the contrary though, his post moves are severely lacking, he relies on getting fouled, yet he is an awful free throw shooter. He is an overrated player. If he gets the calls of a regular player, he then becomes just an ordinary offensive threat that is freakishly athletic.

These 2 quotes are EXACTLY what how I feel about Howard. He's just not dominant enough offensively to be the best player, and like some1 said b4, he doesn't even dominate the ball on the offensive end like the best players usually do. Like I said before, I'd rather let Dwight go 1v1 than let those 3pt shooters open....the shooters are what makes the team dangerous. And I don't think I'm alone on that statement

Raph12
02-11-2010, 02:42 PM
Durant for everyone saying Dwight I don't even think he's top 5 he has no offense at all people always say they don't give him the ball enough I think this is the case because he lacks any scoring skills

You're just upset he raped your Celts and Perk couldn't touch him in the last two game they played.

You should know better than anyone, seeming as how Perk admitted that he couldn't stop Howard in either of the last two games because his range seems further than it was and that he had to take his defense on him to another level to be able to contain him.

But you're right, they should put Monta in the Top 5 because he's such a great scorer. :rolleyes:


u must not know alot about Wade...did you not see Wade single handedly beat the Mavs for the championship...last i heard, Howard hasnt won a ring

btw, you said Wade cant shoot, yet has a career 48.1% fg...better than kobe (45.5%) and lebron (47.4%)...so im not too sure of your analysis

I watched Wade in the Finals and it was a great show, but it wasn't single-handedly; he had Shaq, Haslem, Payton, Williams, Jones, etc.. everyone had a role to play in that series... Last I heard, Wade hasn't got out of the first round since.

Btw yeah I said Wade can't shoot and I stand by my statement. Dwight shoots a career 57.1% from the field... better than Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc... guess that means he's a better shooter as well. :rolleyes:

FG% is the worst way to determine who the better shooter is:

Wade:
From 10-15 - 34.7% (0.7M-1.9A)
From 15-23 - 38.0% (2.3M-6.0A)
From 23'9+ - 30.0% (1.1M-3.5A)
Accumulated - 36.0% (4.1M-11.4A)

Lebron:
From 10-15 - 30.2% (0.4M-1.2A)
From 15-23 - 40.0% (2.2M-5.4A)
From 23'9+ - 36.3% (1.9M-5.1A)
Accumulated - 36.8% (4.3M-11.7)

Kobe:
From 10-15 - 50.0% (2.2M-4.4A)
From 15-23 - 43.0% (2.7M-6.1A)
From 23'9+ - 32.7% (1.4M-4.2A)
Accumulated - 43.0% (6.3M-14.7A)

Kobe is easily the best of the three, with Lebron as a runner up and Wade in dead last... So you were saying?

GodsSon
02-11-2010, 02:45 PM
Durant/Wade

C-Van
02-11-2010, 03:05 PM
See this is the problem with today's fans. They only focus on offense. That's it. Having the impact on a game makes him the 3rd best player in the league, I don't understand why you think impact means nothing. Theres a ton of players in the game today who can score points. Scoring is great and all but theres two sides to a basketball game. Offense and defense. Defense isn't as flashy as offense and thats why uneducated fans base everything on offense. Kobe sets himself apart from Carter, Roy, Johnson because of his great defense. Yet all those players can score at will.

Basketball teams have to change their offensive game plan when facing Orlando because they know they won't be able to drive as much as they like to. When one player can make an entire team change their offense, doesn't that tell you somthing? Or are you still stuck on 26 ppg makes someone the greatest?


I agree with the fact that Dwight is the best defender in the league, and he is one of the top 5 players in the league, but when he doesn't make as much of an impact on the offensive end, then I don't think he can be labeled the greatest in the game.

Also think about this, Dwight is 6th in the league in turnovers per game, yet he is is 110th in field goal attempts per game! He averages 4 turnovers a night, and makes 6 buckets a night. That means that for every three shots he makes, he turns over the ball twice. That is RIDICULOUSLY inefficient on offense, especially when you consider the fact that he is just a 60% free throw shooter. I agree that there allot of great scorers out there in this, and that is rare to come across somebody great. Dwight is an excellent player, and the best defender in the game today, but when it is a liability for your team to put the ball in your hands then there is NO WAY you can consider him to be the best player in the game.

Now, I do believe that Dwight hasn't fully developed yet, and can eventually become a SICK offensive threat. But the point of this thread is who is the best in the game RIGHT NOW. And in my mind that has to be Chris Paul, he is a terrific defender, can score, shoot, drive, and is a great leader, and the best distrubitor in the game along with Nash.

Sportfan
02-11-2010, 03:10 PM
Tyreke Evans! How can he get no love from you guys :pity: (j/k, itís Durant)

C-Van
02-11-2010, 03:16 PM
Durant is too much of a shooter and only tries to drive when he has an open lane, Wade bricks more shots than anyone in the Top 10 for scoring and have you ever seen Billups or Kidd play a game, last I checked they were PGs too, but they could play off-ball as well. Notice how NO looks pretty good without CP3 and guys like Peja and MoPete look young and rejuvenated again, says a lot about him...

Is that why the Hornets are 7-8 without Paul...and 21-17 with him???

And Chris Paul doesn't somehow make those players "older"...

tredigs
02-11-2010, 03:21 PM
Monta Ellis is highly underrated btw


Tyreke Evans! How can he get no love from you guys :pity: (j/k, it’s Durant)

I'm just going to pray that you two are joking when it comes to a thread like this. Top 50? Sure. Top 3???

That's reserved for KD, Wade, Howard, Cp3, Dirk, or Duncan. These are the guys that on any given day are the best player in the league (fine second, screw you Lebron). Nash, you're amazing but you blow truck-stop drivers on D and that sets you back a tier, right alongside Melo.

You could make a strong case for any of these guys to be top 3 in the league. This isn't a finite science when you're talking about players this good. What teams they're on and how they need to fit into those teams will mold stats, which is why stats (even the newer/better/modern ones) aren't the be all - end all of every debate.

Sportfan
02-11-2010, 03:22 PM
I'm just going to pray that you two are joking when it comes to a thread like this. Top 50? Sure. Top 3???

That's reserved for KD, Wade, Howard, Cp3, Dirk, or Duncan. Nash you're amazing but you blow truck-stop drivers on D and that sets you back a tier, right alongside Melo.

You could make a strong case for any of these guys to be top 3 in the league. This isn't a finite science when you're talking about players this good. What teams they're on and how they need to fit into those teams will mold stats, which is why stats (even the newer/better/modern ones) aren't the be all - end all of every debate.
Highlight my post....

Raph12
02-11-2010, 03:30 PM
Is that why the Hornets are 7-8 without Paul...and 21-17 with him???

And Chris Paul doesn't somehow make those players "older"...

I'm sorry, but with Paul in early, they were getting torched regularly, it wasn't until his first injury that got them going in the first place.

macc
02-11-2010, 03:34 PM
I agree with the fact that Dwight is the best defender in the league, and he is one of the top 5 players in the league, but when he doesn't make as much of an impact on the offensive end, then I don't think he can be labeled the greatest in the game.

Also think about this, Dwight is 6th in the league in turnovers per game, yet he is is 110th in field goal attempts per game! He averages 4 turnovers a night, and makes 6 buckets a night. That means that for every three shots he makes, he turns over the ball twice. That is RIDICULOUSLY inefficient on offense, especially when you consider the fact that he is just a 60% free throw shooter. I agree that there allot of great scorers out there in this, and that is rare to come across somebody great. Dwight is an excellent player, and the best defender in the game today, but when it is a liability for your team to put the ball in your hands then there is NO WAY you can consider him to be the best player in the game.

Now, I do believe that Dwight hasn't fully developed yet, and can eventually become a SICK offensive threat. But the point of this thread is who is the best in the game RIGHT NOW. And in my mind that has to be Chris Paul, he is a terrific defender, can score, shoot, drive, and is a great leader, and the best distrubitor in the game along with Nash.


Nice post.


That's a good stat I'll give you that. Howard does turn the ball over more than I would like to see him do it. Its just one of the things he needs to work on.

With that being said I'm averaging it out. When you take the fact he's arguablly the best defender in the league and he's dominant offensivly (not as much as Wade) but still dominant then thats why I put him ahead of the rest.

As somone said before though. Howards growth offensivly has been very very under the radar. Trust me, I used to bag on his game all the time because of it. I'm not a blind homer. I call it like I see it wheather the guys on my team or not. I've been impressed with his offensive game this year. Plus his passing out of the double teams has been great.

Another reason I give Howard the edge over Wade is because Howard gets everyone around him in foul trouble. He's # 1 in the league in free throw attempts. Granted hes only making 60% of them but that means hes drawing fouls from his defenders. I've watched pretty much every Magic game this year and there have been quite a few games where teams have to pull their 3rd string big off the bench to play in the 1st/2nd quarter. Now when you're taking the other teams best defensive/offensive big out of the game. You're improving your chances of winning.

Theres alot Howard does game in and game out that doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

But we'll just agree to disagree here. Both players are great.

rick66ankiel24
02-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Kobe is not even better than Wade....this tread is biased.

i think that kobe is a more clutch shooter, but for all around game i want wade

C-Van
02-11-2010, 03:41 PM
Nice post.


That's a good stat I'll give you that. Howard does turn the ball over more than I would like to see him do it. Its just one of the things he needs to work on.

With that being said I'm averaging it out. When you take the fact he's arguablly the best defender in the league and he's dominant offensivly (not as much as Wade) but still dominant then thats why I put him ahead of the rest.

As somone said before though. Howards growth offensivly has been very very under the radar. Trust me, I used to bag on his game all the time because of it. I'm not a blind homer. I call it like I see it wheather the guys on my team or not. I've been impressed with his offensive game this year. Plus his passing out of the double teams has been great.

Another reason I give Howard the edge over Wade is because Howard gets everyone around him in foul trouble. He's # 1 in the league in free throw attempts. Granted hes only making 60% of them but that means hes drawing fouls from his defenders. I've watched pretty much every Magic game this year and there have been quite a few games where teams have to pull their 3rd string big off the bench to play in the 1st/2nd quarter. Now when you're taking the other teams best defensive/offensive big out of the game. You're improving your chances of winning.

Theres alot Howard does game in and game out that doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

But we'll just agree to disagree here. Both players are great.

Well, I'm not making a case that Wade is better than Howard. I agree that Howard is better player than D-Wade because he is so dominant defensively. I think Chris Paul is a better player than Howard.

mikantsass
02-11-2010, 03:47 PM
Alright, so the discussion for best player in the NBA is almost always centered around Kobe vs. LeBron...and rightfully so. But, who in your eyes is the best player in the game RIGHT NOW, not 3 or 4 years from now...so who do you think the best non-Kobe, non-LeBron player is in the game at this point in time.

Try to stray away from players on your fave team if you can, we all know every Raptors fan thinks Bosh is the best, every Hornets fan thinks Paul is the best, etc. So try and go out on a limb and not pick players on your team.

Carmelo, with Wade a very close 2nd

JIMMY CONWAY
02-11-2010, 03:48 PM
Bryant

Pornstar86
02-11-2010, 04:44 PM
You're just upset he raped your Celts and Perk couldn't touch him in the last two game they played.

You should know better than anyone, seeming as how Perk admitted that he couldn't stop Howard in either of the last two games because his range seems further than it was and that he had to take his defense on him to another level to be able to contain him.

But you're right, they should put Monta in the Top 5 because he's such a great scorer. :rolleyes:



I watched Wade in the Finals and it was a great show, but it wasn't single-handedly; he had Shaq, Haslem, Payton, Williams, Jones, etc.. everyone had a role to play in that series... Last I heard, Wade hasn't got out of the first round since.

Btw yeah I said Wade can't shoot and I stand by my statement. Dwight shoots a career 57.1% from the field... better than Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc... guess that means he's a better shooter as well. :rolleyes:

FG% is the worst way to determine who the better shooter is:

Wade:
From 10-15 - 34.7% (0.7M-1.9A)
From 15-23 - 38.0% (2.3M-6.0A)
From 23'9+ - 30.0% (1.1M-3.5A)
Accumulated - 36.0% (4.1M-11.4A)

Lebron:
From 10-15 - 30.2% (0.4M-1.2A)
From 15-23 - 40.0% (2.2M-5.4A)
From 23'9+ - 36.3% (1.9M-5.1A)
Accumulated - 36.8% (4.3M-11.7)

Kobe:
From 10-15 - 50.0% (2.2M-4.4A)
From 15-23 - 43.0% (2.7M-6.1A)
From 23'9+ - 32.7% (1.4M-4.2A)
Accumulated - 43.0% (6.3M-14.7A)

Kobe is easily the best of the three, with Lebron as a runner up and Wade in dead last... So you were saying?

since kobe, lebron, wade all have very similar styles of play, it is fine to use fg% to compare those 3...when you bring in Howard, who gets 90% of his points from dunks, it isnt right to compare them....bottom line is you said Wade has no shot...yet the stat you just listed above shows that he is only 0.8% less than lebron..isnt that what this thread is about? who comes after kobe and lebron? so i really dont know why you would put that stat down when it reinforces my statement completely...

this whole thread is about who is the best overall player after lebron and kobe....wade's great overall game is better than howard's amazing defense and mediocre offense...

and as for wade getting out of the first round...what does getting to the finals prove if you lose???

macc
02-11-2010, 05:18 PM
since kobe, lebron, wade all have very similar styles of play, it is fine to use fg% to compare those 3...when you bring in Howard, who gets 90% of his points from dunks, it isnt right to compare them....bottom line is you said Wade has no shot...yet the stat you just listed above shows that he is only 0.8% less than lebron..isnt that what this thread is about? who comes after kobe and lebron? so i really dont know why you would put that stat down when it reinforces my statement completely...

this whole thread is about who is the best overall player after lebron and kobe....wade's great overall game is better than howard's amazing defense and mediocre offense...

and as for wade getting out of the first round...what does getting to the finals prove if you lose???



It proves you won the East and finished the season in 2nd place. Above the great Lebron James and Dwayne Wade. Theres a big difference from not getting out of the first round to losing in the finals to a better team.

Someone said it before me and made a great point. Dwade wins games. Howard wins series.

WITZ
02-11-2010, 05:24 PM
Durantula / thread

Jonathan2323
02-11-2010, 05:26 PM
Lebron>Wade>Kobe right now.

THE MTL
02-11-2010, 05:36 PM
Its between Durant and Chris Paul. Chris Paul had an injury-ruled season and he is still beasting. 51% for a PG is insane while putting up his usual 20ppg 11apg 2.5stlpg. Durant been scoring over 25 points in EVERY game since Dec 23rd lol. Durant is a MONSTER!

Wade_County
02-11-2010, 05:38 PM
Kobe>Lebron>Wade>Durant

midwestmadman
02-11-2010, 05:41 PM
I would take Durant, Howard, and Wade all ahead of Kobe.

BkOriginalOne
02-11-2010, 05:43 PM
This is silly. Wade, easily. Then Melo, Paul and KD.

JLynn943
02-11-2010, 05:59 PM
despite the somewhat down season, I would still say Wade, with Melo and Dwight close behind.

macc
02-11-2010, 06:00 PM
This is silly. Wade, easily. Then Melo, Paul and KD.


"It's so silly" so please tell me why Wade is better or has more of an impact on a game than Howard?

LayZbone
02-11-2010, 06:09 PM
It proves you won the East and finished the season in 2nd place. Above the great Lebron James and Dwayne Wade. Theres a big difference from not getting out of the first round to losing in the finals to a better team.

Someone said it before me and made a great point. Dwade wins games. Howard wins series.

thats a ******** statement. they're both superstars that can and HAVE helped their teams win a playoff series. no single player can do it all by himself though. Right after Wade's championship season, both he and the Heat were plagued by devastating injuries....and for the past 3 seasons, he's had complete crap surrounding him....you can't fault him for that. The fact that he helped take the Heat to game 7 vs ATL last year is pretty amazing considering it was a roster full of scrubs and rookies. no one else in the top 5 has a ring/finals MVP trophy besides Wade and Kobe. You don't think Wade could win a playoff series anymore? even if he had a supporting cast as good as Kobe, Lebron or Melo? I guess we'll find out soon (all eyes on 2010).

LayZbone
02-11-2010, 06:13 PM
"It's so silly" so please tell me why Wade is better or has more of an impact on a game than Howard?

I'll say this, ask any expert who they think has the most impact and who's the most important to they're team....Wade will come up more than a few times. Take him off the Heat and what do you get? Battling NJ for John Wall.

LayZbone
02-11-2010, 06:21 PM
I watched Wade in the Finals and it was a great show, but it wasn't single-handedly; he had Shaq, Haslem, Payton, Williams, Jones, etc.. everyone had a role to play in that series...

lol who has ever done it single handedly??? yeah he had a solid team of veterans around him...but the series was almost lost until Wade kicked it into hyperdrive. (and no, we didn't have Jones...neither Damon nor Eddie. u sure u were watching?....:p)

look at the stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-1)

they're ridiculous! Of course his teammates helped tremendously, but it's safe to say that Wade had the biggest part in his team's victory. Biggest ever, according to the genius John Hollinger


EDIT: sorry for the triple post. I should've combined the last 2.

NyCsPoRtS1
02-11-2010, 06:26 PM
to me its wade when healthy easily

macc
02-11-2010, 06:34 PM
thats a ******** statement. they're both superstars that can and HAVE helped their teams win a playoff series. no single player can do it all by himself though. Right after Wade's championship season, both he and the Heat were plagued by devastating injuries....and for the past 3 seasons, he's had complete crap surrounding him....you can't fault him for that. The fact that he helped take the Heat to game 7 vs ATL last year is pretty amazing considering it was a roster full of scrubs and rookies. no one else in the top 5 has a ring/finals MVP trophy besides Wade and Kobe. You don't think Wade could win a playoff series anymore? even if he had a supporting cast as good as Kobe, Lebron or Melo? I guess we'll find out soon (all eyes on 2010).



I don't think it's that ******** and somone else doesn't think it is either considering I was quoting somone else in this thread.

I'm not saying Wade can't win a series, but when was the last time he did? Having Shaq, the most dominant big man at the time helps out alot, kinda the same effect Howard has on his teammates. Just makes everyone elses game that much easier. Plus I was talking more about "impact" on a game.

Howard is anchoring the defense. Defense is contagious, when people see Howard busting his *** they want to do the same. Orlando has been a top 5 defensive team the last few years now because of him.

Dwade has the capabilites to take over and win games. The question is, does he make his teammates better? Thats what I mean by Dwade wins games, Howard wins series.

In the playoffs when teams have to face Dwight, they have to "change" their offense because they know what Howard is capable of. With Wade, that's not the case. Wade is a good defender but to not the same degree or impact that Dwight has on the game. When teams have to change the way they play because of one player, that tells you somthing.

Look at Miami now. I don't think they're full of scrubs. Miami is 3 deep at the PG position. Don't hate on Rafer, he was the starting PG on my team that got us to the finals. Miami has two solid PFs in Beasly and Udonis. Jermaine has been pretty good all year. Avg 13 ppg for a 3rd option isn't bad. Quentin Richardson has been known to post some 20+ pt games. Yet Miami is barely hanging onto the 8th spot of the conference.

I love Wade, but I don't think he has near the impact on a game then Howard does. That in turn makes it alot more difficult to win series.

macc
02-11-2010, 06:35 PM
I'll say this, ask any expert who they think has the most impact and who's the most important to they're team....Wade will come up more than a few times. Take him off the Heat and what do you get? Battling NJ for John Wall.



I don't care how good/bad Miami would be without Wade, whats your point? Who has the bigger impact between the two is what the question was.

avrpatsfan
02-11-2010, 06:38 PM
Kevin Durant. 29.7 Points 7.4 Rebounds. I don't see any better stats than that

LayZbone
02-11-2010, 06:58 PM
I don't think it's that ******** and somone else doesn't think it is either considering I was quoting somone else in this thread.

I'm not saying Wade can't win a series, but when was the last time he did? Having Shaq, the most dominant big man at the time helps out alot, kinda the same effect Howard has on his teammates. Just makes everyone elses game that much easier. Plus I was talking more about "impact" on a game.

Howard is anchoring the defense. Defense is contagious, when people see Howard busting his *** they want to do the same. Orlando has been a top 5 defensive team the last few years now because of him.

Dwade has the capabilites to take over and win games. The question is, does he make his teammates better? Thats what I mean by Dwade wins games, Howard wins series.

In the playoffs when teams have to face Dwight, they have to "change" their offense because they know what Howard is capable of. With Wade, that's not the case. Wade is a good defender but to not the same degree or impact that Dwight has on the game. When teams have to change the way they play because of one player, that tells you somthing.

Look at Miami now. I don't think they're full of scrubs. Miami is 3 deep at the PG position. Don't hate on Rafer, he was the starting PG on my team that got us to the finals. Miami has two solid PFs in Beasly and Udonis. Jermaine has been pretty good all year. Avg 13 ppg for a 3rd option isn't bad. Quentin Richardson has been known to post some 20+ pt games. Yet Miami is barely hanging onto the 8th spot of the conference.

I love Wade, but I don't think he has near the impact on a game then Howard does. That in turn makes it alot more difficult to win series.

I already said that i realize Wade had help...Shaq certainly helped....but he was already far from the dominant shaq he used to be. Wade does thrive when he has a good post presence though....so I'm looking forward to seeing that again next season. As far as the Heat's success in the playoffs (mainly the finals) goes....I'm making the statement that Wade was the most impactful player for us. He was simply unconscious out there. But yes it's hard to bet against truly dominant big men like Shaq and D12.

you make some good points. But I also think you're giving the Heat cast a little too much credit. They've all had their moments...but none of them do it consistently. Q-Rich has a lot more 0 point games than 20 point games. Jo will follow a 20/10 outing by posting 5/2. Rafer has been underwhelming. Chalmers has been extremely disappointing, and has fallen to the 3rd string. I do like what Arroyo brings on offense. I wouldn't say we're 3 deep at PG....it's easily our most problematic position. Hence why Wade has been running the point a lot lately....check his recent assist totals.


I don't care how good/bad Miami would be without Wade, whats your point? Who has the bigger impact between the two is what the question was.

Yeah I was just re-reading that. In my mind, I kind of blurred the line between impact on the game and importance to the team.

I think that if Wade had at least one other reliable and consistent sidekick (preferably in the post), it would only strengthen his impact on the game. Because as it is right now...teams simply throw their defense at him, and we have to pray that one of our other guys will show up to relieve some pressure. He doesn't have a P.Gasol, Chauncey, R.Lewis/VC, Mo Williams. Beasley should and will be that kind of player one day....but thats a whole nother issue (coach not trusting him...giving him PT in crucial moments).

I can't deny Dwight's huge impact on the game....but it's really hard to evaluate Wade's this season because he literally tries/has to do too much, and his below average cast prevents him from being as impactful and effective as he possibly can. Right now, I'd say he's top 5 in terms of impact on the game...despite the adversity. With his cast last year, he still managed to lead the league in scoring. It's a lot to ask for and extremely demanding. No one asks more from one player than the Heat do from Wade.

I'm convinced that if he had a good team, there would be no doubters left.

footballer2369
02-11-2010, 07:07 PM
You shouldn't be, your Raps are 2-1 vs the Heat and only 1-3 vs the Magic... and Dwight goes off on you guys every time.

Don't get me wrong, Dwight's never gonna lead the league in scoring or anything, but his impact on a game is much larger than Wade's ever will be. The way I look at it is this; Wade will win his team games, Dwight will win his team series... Game over!

and, yet, history says the opposite :laugh:...Game over!

footballer2369
02-11-2010, 07:14 PM
check the PER all. If you're going by stats it's wade, if you're going by clutch it's wade, if you're going by wins, then you may have an argument, but then it's Melo not Durant or Paul. Those who are saying Dwight are hilarious. He's barely top 10.

LALakersKC
02-11-2010, 07:20 PM
Melo
Wade
Durant

heattiltheend94
02-11-2010, 07:30 PM
no bias, but Wade and Durant are tied (in front of Kobe)

SwaggaIke
02-11-2010, 07:40 PM
LOL @ Dwight Howard actually being considered a serviceable on ball defender. He's the Josh Smith of centers defensively. Wade is the best player in the NBA not named Bryant or James. Wade has been shooting over 50% since the month of January began while attempting to pick up the slack for a jump shooting team that can't shoot. His mid range game is butter, slashing game is amazing as well as his court vision. He's been damn good defensively on ball and has improved his post game. Durant is superb talent but he is limited to the in between game. His post game in non existent and he hasn't learned to drive the ball consistently and finish in traffic in the NBA. He comes off screens to get to the middle of the floor or drives left and pulls up. His LEGIT 6'10 frame makes up for his lack of a complete offensive game. If his shot is falling (which it is on the majority of night) he can't be stopped because he shoots right over the defenders hand. I'll give him credit for improving defensively, but he's not yet better than Dwyane.

Pornstar86
02-11-2010, 07:41 PM
"It's so silly" so please tell me why Wade is better or has more of an impact on a game than Howard?

ok no problem...Wade has shown that he can take over a game on both sides, D an O...Howard miht get a monster block, but he aint going to dribble up court and score after that block is he? since when has Howard demanded the ball and scored 20-30 in the 4th quarter during the playoffs??? kobe, lebron and wade have

Vee-Rex
02-11-2010, 07:41 PM
Howard has the intangibles but he is NOT the 3rd best player behind Lebron and Kobe. Howard gets way too many turnovers and all you gotta do is get into his head and he'll collapse.

Drive at Howard and you'll get him in foul trouble easily. He's an amazing defender but he needs to learn how to have more control and not contest every last thing that comes his way. Place a physical center on him and he'll have a very difficult time scoring out of the post.

Wade can take over a game. When there's 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter, Wade can completely dominate and put the entire team on his shoulders. Howard can't do this without turning the ball over several times over or getting shut down.

That's why I give it to Wade. He has that killer instinct that Dwight lacks. It's the reason why opposing coaches fear him way more than they do Howard.

Ragun
02-11-2010, 07:43 PM
Alright, so the discussion for best player in the NBA is almost always centered around Kobe vs. LeBron...and rightfully so. But, who in your eyes is the best player in the game RIGHT NOW, not 3 or 4 years from now...so who do you think the best non-Kobe, non-LeBron player is in the game at this point in time.

Try to stray away from players on your fave team if you can, we all know every Raptors fan thinks Bosh is the best, every Hornets fan thinks Paul is the best, etc. So try and go out on a limb and not pick players on your team.

really? we do? :rolleyes:

and you cant blame hornets if they say he is the third best because you can make a case for that.

but ill take wade thank you.

Punkindrublic03
02-11-2010, 07:50 PM
Kd

knicks09
02-11-2010, 07:51 PM
Dwyane Wade

PC
02-11-2010, 07:53 PM
Wade, then CP3, then Durantula

vash9
02-11-2010, 07:56 PM
Kevin Durant.

HoopsDrive
02-11-2010, 08:01 PM
3rd best player: Flash (note: Superman's impact on the court cannot be ignored but the better player has been Wade for a while)

In a few years, possibly earlier: KD (note: IF Kobe and LBJ don't diminish their rate)

C-Van
02-11-2010, 08:14 PM
It proves you won the East and finished the season in 2nd place. Above the great Lebron James and Dwayne Wade. Theres a big difference from not getting out of the first round to losing in the finals to a better team.

Someone said it before me and made a great point. Dwade wins games. Howard wins series.

Wait, how many Finals MVP's has Dwight Howard won?

C-Van
02-11-2010, 08:23 PM
really? we do? :rolleyes:

and you cant blame hornets if they say he is the third best because you can make a case for that.

but ill take wade thank you.

I was trying to avoid having people making cases for their team's best player in general. But yeah, we can just pretend I never said that.

ManRam
02-11-2010, 08:29 PM
Wait, how many Finals MVP's has Dwight Howard won?

So. With that logic, TP is better or just as good as Wade because he won one the year after Wade did. Pierce should be in this conversation too.

Come on...you can do better than that.

IversonIsKrazy
02-11-2010, 08:31 PM
Forget abt Dwight.

I would say its between Dwyane Wade or Kevin Durrant. But i gotta go w/ Wade, but next year KD will take that over.

A neam that deserves to be named tho are Dirk, Melo, and Bosh.

But Wade w/o a doubt, and surely not Dwight.

dev0
02-11-2010, 08:42 PM
1 Melo
2 Durant
3 Wade
4 Dwight/ Paul

Ethix11
02-11-2010, 08:50 PM
Im not going to pick someone else just because im a Heat fan.
1 Wade - Is a Beast on Offense & Defense
2 Dwight - Is great on Offense & Defense
3 KD - Is a Beast on Offense but terrible at Defense
4 Melo - Is a great on Offense but bad at Defense
5 Paul - Is great on Offense & Defense for a PG

No one can take over the game like D Wade when it matters.

JNA17
02-11-2010, 08:52 PM
Kobe is not even better than Wade....this tread is biased.

why didn't you stay banned?

JNA17
02-11-2010, 08:54 PM
in all seriousness though,

wade or durant

SwaggaIke
02-11-2010, 10:26 PM
Im not going to pick someone else just because im a Heat fan.
1 Wade - Is a Beast on Offense & Defense
2 Dwight - Is great on Offense & Defense
3 KD - Is a Beast on Offense but terrible at Defense
4 Melo - Is a great on Offense but bad at Defense
5 Paul - Is great on Offense & Defense for a PG

No one can take over the game like D Wade when it matters.

I'm a Heat fan but both of those notions are incorrect. Durant is a much improved defender this year. Unlike seasons past his team is actually a better defensive team w/ him on the floor. Melo is also a MORE DEDICATED defender. There was never a time when he COULDN'T play D, he just chose not to exert the effort.

PLAYERS FAN
02-11-2010, 10:45 PM
It's Wade but he must finish .500 or above in the weak eastern conference to be third (IMO). Wade still lost some points with me coming into this season out of shape.

Raider5
02-11-2010, 10:50 PM
I think the best player not named Lebron or Kobe is DWade...he is amazing...he needs some help down in South Florida.

sixer04fan
02-11-2010, 10:59 PM
Wade/Durant

HuRRiCaNeS324
02-11-2010, 11:51 PM
Obviously if you base Wades play to last year, then you will be underwhelmed thus making you think CP3 and Dwight are better which is ********. What Wade did last year with that team is amazing and i really didn't expect him to carry the load again this year for basically no reason. I think if Wade wanted to he can go off every night, but what's the point in risking injury and fatigue for a season that is basically just waiting it out for the next year.

D Wade is the best player not named Lebron (im not too sure about Kobe, but thats just me) and by a lot. All of you just forget too fast how amazing Wade is and instead jump on the Durant wagon...

curtie74
02-11-2010, 11:57 PM
timmy d

dwadefan03
02-12-2010, 12:03 AM
Gonna go with Dwight Howard, most upside and his effect on the game is unrivalled by anyone not named Lebron or Kobe.

Durant can't drive, Wade can't shoot and Paul needs the ball in his hands 100% of the time to be effective.

thats a completely false statement.

dwadefan03
02-12-2010, 12:05 AM
the thread should be called best players not named lebron or wade. wade IMHO is already better than kobe bryant

runforrestrunx9
02-12-2010, 12:09 AM
wade... honestly think wade could be considered top 2 in sum aspects as well

from a sixers fan

soonabooma
02-12-2010, 01:11 AM
Wade/Carmelo/Dwight/Chris Bosh/CP3/KD......take your pick. The NBA is in good shape right now in terms of young talent that will be around for a long time. Lebron is a straight up baller, Kobe is still as elite as it gets, and all these other guys are just incredible players. And that's only a handful of guys that could be considered the best of the best. We know that every team in the league has talent, it's impossible for any team not to. But, not every team has a SUPERSTAR. Plenty do, but not everybody does. I think we have one in OKC. Kevin Durant is gonna be a special player and I'm glad we get to build around him.

C-Van
02-12-2010, 02:52 AM
So. With that logic, TP is better or just as good as Wade because he won one the year after Wade did. Pierce should be in this conversation too.

Come on...you can do better than that.

He said that Wade won games, but Howard won series. And therefore I made that comment, pointing out a flawed argument. Context clues man...use 'em.

I never made a case for TeePee or Paul Pierce but to say that Dwight Howard wins series', yet D-Wade doesn't is flawed because D-Wade has a ring and won a Finals MVP, and Dwight hasn't. And if you read what I said earlier, than you'd see that I thought Howard was a better player than Wade.

AndyTheHobo
02-12-2010, 06:51 AM
Without reading any of the other posts, I'm confidently saying, without hesitation, Kevin Durant.

In two years from now people will be thanking LeBron and Durant for saving the NBA, much like Magic and Bird did in the 80s.