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View Full Version : The Lakers remain unbeaten without Kobe since Gasol trade.



fairandbalanced
02-11-2010, 01:00 AM
It may just be a coincidence but the Lakers actually look better without Kobe in the starting line-up. They are blowing teams out and continue to look unstoppable. The Lakers are obviously a better team with Kobe but we can also make a case that they're better without him.

Your thoughts..........

ko8e24
02-11-2010, 01:03 AM
Trade Kobe

/thread

ManRam
02-11-2010, 01:05 AM
I think any thread that doesn't portray Kobe in a completely positive light is destined for closure...sadly.

They aren't better without Kobe. If you say that you are a moron. They are showing that maybe when he comes back, he should look to differ and get his teammates involved more and more. No more 30 shot, 2 assist games.

ko8e24
02-11-2010, 01:11 AM
I think any thread that doesn't portray Kobe in a completely positive light is destined for closure...sadly.

They aren't better without Kobe. If you say that you are a moron. They are showing that maybe when he comes back, he should look to differ and get his teammates involved more and more. No more 30 shot, 2 assist games.

Yes :nod:

kblo247
02-11-2010, 01:16 AM
I think any thread that doesn't portray Kobe in a completely positive light is destined for closure...sadly.

They aren't better without Kobe. If you say that you are a moron. They are showing that maybe when he comes back, he should look to differ and get his teammates involved more and more. No more 30 shot, 2 assist games.

I agree, but I hope and pray Bynum doesn't come back as a starter.

If he does the team will get worse on offense and defense, and they will be back with the same problems:
- Pau not being able to play PF
- Kobe not able to drive
- Fish not having space to shoot
- Ron not being able to post up
- Lamar not getting the minutes he deserves

Send his *** to the bench to go with Shannon and Jordan who are balling and even Sasha who is showing signs of life

ManRam
02-11-2010, 01:18 AM
I agree, but I hope and pray Bynum doesn't come back as a starter.

If he does the team will get worse on offense and defense, and they will be back with the same problems:
- Pau not being able to play PF
- Kobe not able to drive
- Fish not having space to shoot
- Ron not being able to post up
- Lamar not getting the minutes he deserves

LO and Pau's chemistry these past few games looks off the charts. It's also been clear to me that Drew is better when he isn't out there with Pau. For those two reasons, I definitely think Drew should come off the bench.

clutchski
02-11-2010, 01:19 AM
I'm sure I'll receive some flak for this but this stat and how the Lakers play without Kobe is a huge reason why I don't consider Kobe the mvp of the league. By a long shot. The lakers would still be a great team without Kobe...unlike others without their star players.

ManRam
02-11-2010, 01:20 AM
I'm sure I'll receive some flak for this but this stat and how the Lakers play without Kobe is a huge reason why I don't consider Kobe the mvp of the league. By a long shot. The lakers would still be a great team without Kobe...unlike others without their star players.

I don't think that's a controversial statement at all.

lakerboy
02-11-2010, 01:27 AM
Or maybe it's Bynum?

Odom and Gasol have greaat greaat chemistry.

still1ballin
02-11-2010, 01:28 AM
Yeah Kobe sucks....Trade him for Matt Bonner

td0tsfinest
02-11-2010, 01:30 AM
well it is impressive they took down the jazz w/o Kobe in Utah.

showtym24
02-11-2010, 01:33 AM
I'm sure I'll receive some flak for this but this stat and how the Lakers play without Kobe is a huge reason why I don't consider Kobe the mvp of the league. By a long shot. The lakers would still be a great team without Kobe...unlike others without their star players.

Agree but how bout the smush and kwame years? When kobe carried the whole team on his back to 45 win seasons and dirk and nash stole his MVPs. Iam still pissed about that.

kblo247
02-11-2010, 01:34 AM
LO and Pau's chemistry these past few games looks off the charts. It's also been clear to me that Drew is better when he isn't out there with Pau. For those two reasons, I definitely think Drew should come off the bench.

Let me add to that by saying Fisher is a much better defender without Bynum on the floor. Lamar and Pau help him, rotate correctly, and he is able to dig down and help them in return. When Drew is in the game teams play pick and roll against him and Fish and usually torch them.

The only thing with benching him is that he may pout, sulk, and bench despite the fact that Kobe, Ron, Fisher, and Lamar have all been 6th man in their career which makes his case piss poor.

Hellcrooner
02-11-2010, 02:02 AM
1 Maybbbeeeeeeee this means that Pau Gasol is a biiiiit more importnat to lakers succes that he gets credited for?

Im abit sicke of reading that Paus rings doe snto matter at all becaus ehe is a second banana or because he is jsut riding on kobes succes etc etc

2 Sorry to burst he buble but Kobe its not the problem ( he is somoetimes one game every now and then wen he goes ballhogh )

its BYNUM .

We need to trade that dude for a good PG and a defensive center.

Period.

iggypop123
02-11-2010, 02:09 AM
the lakers problem is odom cant play 48 min cause they could just plug in bynum or gasol at center that provdes them the space to dominate down low

Chronz
02-11-2010, 03:24 AM
I never bought into Kobes reasons for opting to play and that him sitting would hurt the mental psyche of the team.

IDB Josh M
02-11-2010, 03:32 AM
I'm all for discussing Kobe, and the lakers. But is this really NBA threat worthy?

BlondeBomber41
02-11-2010, 03:44 AM
Agree but how bout the smush and kwame years? When kobe carried the whole team on his back to 45 win seasons and dirk and nash stole his MVPs. Iam still pissed about that.

Oh you mean when Dirk and Nash were leading their teams to 65+ wins seasons? Great logic there chief.

JiffyMix88
02-11-2010, 03:46 AM
Oh you mean when Dirk and Nash were leading their teams to 65+ wins seasons? Great logic there chief.

lol owned

dsonLAL24
02-11-2010, 03:51 AM
I'm all for discussing Kobe, and the lakers. But is this really NBA threat worthy?

whats up with ur sig,hahahaa

heathonater
02-11-2010, 04:02 AM
yes, they are not a better team without kobe.

GspLAL
02-11-2010, 04:30 AM
The reason why they're playing better is because the players know they have to step up because there's no Kobe to bail them out.

Chronz
02-11-2010, 04:32 AM
The reason why they're playing better is because the players know they have to step up because there's no Kobe to bail them out.

Im pretty sure every team knows that when there star is out, its just not every team has the players who can rise to the challenge.

THATSALL
02-11-2010, 04:49 AM
I'm sure I'll receive some flak for this but this stat and how the Lakers play without Kobe is a huge reason why I don't consider Kobe the mvp of the league. By a long shot. The lakers would still be a great team without Kobe...unlike others without their star players.

so should MJ have gotten those MVP's when he did cause if i can recall the bulls still won 55 games the year after he left?

1992-1993 bulls won 57 games ( with MJ )
1993-1994 bulls won 55 games ( without MJ )

ink
02-11-2010, 04:51 AM
Or maybe it just shows that the Lakers have phenomenal depth. Of course they're still winning with the players they have on that roster.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-11-2010, 04:59 AM
1 Maybbbeeeeeeee this means that Pau Gasol is a biiiiit more importnat to lakers succes that he gets credited for?

Im abit sicke of reading that Paus rings doe snto matter at all becaus ehe is a second banana or because he is jsut riding on kobes succes etc etc

2 Sorry to burst he buble but Kobe its not the problem ( he is somoetimes one game every now and then wen he goes ballhogh )


its BYNUM .

We need to trade that dude for a good PG and a defensive center.

Period.

pretty good english:rolleyes:

GspLAL
02-11-2010, 05:13 AM
Im pretty sure every team knows that when there star is out, its just not every team has the players who can rise to the challenge.

If Blazers can do it, anyone can do it.

tredigs
02-11-2010, 05:20 AM
so should MJ have gotten those MVP's when he did cause if i can recall the bulls still won 55 games the year after he left?

1992-1993 bulls won 57 games ( with MJ )
1993-1994 bulls won 55 games ( without MJ )

No, because Jordan was the best player to ever play the game. Kobe Bryant is not even the best player in the league right now. But that Bulls team was still amazing, with another of one of the better players to ever touch a basketball running the helm alongside a peaking Horace Grant? That's going to earn you some wins. A championship? Not quite, but a lot of regular season wins.

Which is why Kobe needs to remember that his unselfishness in the playoffs is exactly what earned him that trophy... when he plays like that their team is the best in the league (as long as they can tame Lebron and his far more inferior team... which it looks like they may have some trouble with).

Zefflin
02-11-2010, 05:31 AM
Kobe Bryant is not even the best player in the league right now.

Haha, you must feel so much better after waiting 7 years and a broken finger later for that sentence to actually make since. I can't wait when KB returns after the AS break and makes the league shutter again.

tredigs
02-11-2010, 05:34 AM
Haha, you must feel so much better after waiting 7 years and a broken finger later for that sentence to actually make since. I can't wait when KB returns after the AS break and makes the league shutter again.

to make "since". Come again?

And Lebron has been the better individual player for at least three years now, probably longer. Stats don't lie buddy. Kobe in his prime was never TOUCHING the kinds of numbers that Lebron averages, not to mention his team impact, etc. Switch Lebron onto those Lakers rosters and see what happens...

Fun Fact: I can't stand Lebron James, and think Kobe's the man. But I also know that there's no point in arguing against facts.

THATSALL
02-11-2010, 05:42 AM
Oh you mean when Dirk and Nash were leading their teams to 65+ wins seasons? Great logic there chief.

R U kidding me with this...

05-06 year Nash mvp
Nash: 18.8 pts / 4.2 reb / 10.5 ast ( team won 54 games )
kobe: 35.4 pts / 5.3 reb / 4.5 ast ( team won 45 games )
why not give the mvp to Duncan this year his team won 63 games 18.6/11.0/3.2


87-88 year MJ mvp
MJ: 35.0 pts / 5.5 reb / 5.9 ast ( team won 50 games )
Magic: 19.6 pts / 6.2 reb / 11.9 ( team won 62 games )

great logic there chief.:facepalm:

Zefflin
02-11-2010, 05:50 AM
See Digs, I don't have to edit my posts because I'm scared that a flamer like you will jump on the chance to correct my sentence. Come again? You know what I meant Sherlock.

You must be a rook when it comes to this whole posting and watching basketball thing. Kobe is in his prime, he's just one of the only players ever to have different levels of his prime. It's cool though, instead of actually knowing and watching real basketball you just study the #'s. To each there own.

I guess you're just young and all about the stats, like Lebron. ;)

Fun fact: I can stand Lebron.

tredigs
02-11-2010, 05:58 AM
See Digs, I don't have to edit my posts because I'm scared that a flamer like you will jump on the chance to correct my sentence. Come again? You know what I meant Sherlock.

You must be a rook when it comes to this whole posting and watching basketball thing. Kobe is in his prime, he's just one of the only players ever to have different levels of his prime. It's cool though, instead of actually knowing and watching real basketball you just study the #'s. To each there own.

I guess you're just young and all about the stats, like Lebron. ;)

Fun fact: I can stand Lebron.


"Flamer", ahhh I remember 4th grade. Okay, have it your way kid. If you want to ignore every advanced number in the book (which would put Jordan as the best ever, WEIRD!), then take a look at their games. Lebron, on a severely worse team, is still able to compete with and during the reg season this year (OMGZ REG SEAZON LOL!) crush your King Kobe, Pau, and the rest of that cast.

Fun Fact: You're delusional. Christ I hope the Cavs win this year just to shut the Kobe cult up. Most of you are fine, but the ones that take it as a personal hit to their ego based on one ball player being better than another are just comedy. Hopefully the Lebron worshipers post-championship won't be this bad.

THATSALL
02-11-2010, 06:18 AM
No, because Jordan was the best player to ever play the game. Kobe Bryant is not even the best player in the league right now. But that Bulls team was still amazing, with another of one of the better players to ever touch a basketball running the helm alongside a peaking Horace Grant? That's going to earn you some wins. A championship? Not quite, but a lot of regular season wins.

Which is why Kobe needs to remember that his unselfishness in the playoffs is exactly what earned him that trophy... when he plays like that their team is the best in the league (as long as they can tame Lebron and his far more inferior team... which it looks like they may have some trouble with).

MJ wasn't the best player of all time in 1992. He's being acknowledge as the best of all time after his career was done. That's like saying that Lebron is better than MJ cause he has better stats

Zefflin
02-11-2010, 06:22 AM
Won't be as bad as you? What's wrong with flamer? You're acting like one and it's one of the few things I can say without being banned. No **** you remember 4th grade you just graduated middle school it would seem. And why are you talking about Jordan?? Haha at your every post being edited. So formal for me thank you.

ps: You're the delusional one if you think Lebrons team is "severely worse."

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-11-2010, 06:26 AM
to make "since". Come again?

And Lebron has been the better individual player for at least three years now, probably longer. Stats don't lie buddy. Kobe in his prime was never TOUCHING the kinds of numbers that Lebron averages, not to mention his team impact, etc. Switch Lebron onto those Lakers rosters and see what happens...

Fun Fact: I can't stand Lebron James, and think Kobe's the man. But I also know that there's no point in arguing against facts.

YEAH.....right:facepalm:

bmanjones
02-11-2010, 06:26 AM
pointless...

tredigs
02-11-2010, 06:30 AM
MJ wasn't the best player of all time in 1992. He's being acknowledge as the best of all time after his career was done. That's like saying that Lebron is better than MJ cause he has better stats

Did you watch basketball then? He was the outright best player in the game, was fking amazing to watch play and was already widely considered one of the best to ever play the game. But he also shared the court with Scottie Pippen, who was one of the best all around players in the games history. Without Pippen his numbers probably would've even been a little more ridiculous, but no, Lebron doesn't have better stats than Jordan had. Close, but not quite. Check them out to remind yourself...

And what this all means is that if/when Lebron gets another star alongside him and starts winning championships (or **** if he does it this year w/ out one) -- saving that he stays healthy -- he is absolutely going to go down as one of the top greats of all time. I just don't can't see Kobe quite in the same league (SORRY FOR MAKING THIS ANOTHER KOBE/LBJ ****!).

THATSALL
02-11-2010, 06:35 AM
off topic... how can i get that edit tab off each of my post. i think i don't edit

Zefflin
02-11-2010, 06:36 AM
he is absolutely going to go down as one of the top greats of all time.

No ****, with or without the rings...


I just don't can't see Kobe quite in the same league (SORRY FOR MAKING THIS ANOTHER KOBE/LBJ ****!).

It's ok, it's what noobs do...oh and you said "just don't can't" Quick, make sure you edit!!

THATSALL
02-11-2010, 06:56 AM
Did you watch basketball then? He was the outright best player in the game, was fking amazing to watch play and was already widely considered one of the best to ever play the game. But he also shared the court with Scottie Pippen, who was one of the best all around players in the games history. Without Pippen his numbers probably would've even been a little more ridiculous, but no, Lebron doesn't have better stats than Jordan had. Close, but not quite. Check them out to remind yourself...

And what this all means is that if/when Lebron gets another star alongside him and starts winning championships (or **** if he does it this year w/ out one) -- saving that he stays healthy -- he is absolutely going to go down as one of the top greats of all time. I just don't can't see Kobe quite in the same league (SORRY FOR MAKING THIS ANOTHER KOBE/LBJ ****!).

MJ only has LBJ on pts avg. r u kidding me on Mj being the best all times in 92' him n his bulls just won their first ring... seriously

Chronz
02-11-2010, 07:27 AM
If Blazers can do it, anyone can do it.
Whats the Blazers record without Roy?

JayW_1023
02-11-2010, 07:48 AM
They do play more structured without Kobe aborting the triangle to look for his shots...but they still need their closer healthy.

alencp3
02-11-2010, 09:23 AM
Kobe should assist more!

3RDASYSTEM
02-11-2010, 10:03 AM
Actuall it was MJ 2nd ring in 92...back to back well 3peat 91-93 ....and so now is KOBE overrated? nah hes just a ballhog ala AIverson but got a pass from media/NBA/90's born fans for stickin to the post MJ script the league had been dying for someone to take and he did and ran with it...to me KOBE has one ring cuz SHAQ was so dominant in those FINALS it wasnt llike a close race to see who would get MVP,it was all SHAQ all time with KOBE as good 2nd fiddle but any TMAC/PIERCE/AI at those times would have still netted the RINGS with that SHAQ(he was unreal physically) ...remember SHAQ was gettin triple teamed before he touched the ball....everybody in the league from DIRK/NASH/AI/SHAQ/DUNCAN/GARNETT and so on have been the best in league or top two at one point so its just now LEBRON's turn and now all the KOBE fans gotta accept jus like i did when AI was no longer the best in league though from 98-04 he pretty much was

king4day
02-11-2010, 10:13 AM
Can we have someone create a thread after every single lakers game? All non Laker fans reallllllly want up to the minute details on all lakers news.
Maybe we can move their game threads to the NBA forum too.

2 games guys, seriously. They were really impressive wins, but not thread worth.

Young and Stupid
02-11-2010, 10:15 AM
Aight I've been wondering this for a while, but didn't ask because I figured it wasn't worth it. Maybe some Lakers fans can enlighten me. Why do some (not all) Lakers fans take it personally when someone says LeBron is more productive and efficient than Kobe (which is pure fact)? Why do you take it as a personal attack? He's the best player on your basketball team, but why do you take it like someone is attacking one of your family members? Is it because you feel bad for all the hate he gets, or is it because you live vicariously through Kobe?

Note: I'm not being sarcastic.

RadiantShot
02-11-2010, 10:21 AM
Well, so much for the intelligence of PSD.

Eagles4Lyfe
02-11-2010, 10:40 AM
thats a good sign they should give kobe more rest and get him ready for playoffs..But ive always noticed when kobes out Odom always steps up and does amazing, even without kobe there starting lineups still stacked

JNA17
02-11-2010, 10:43 AM
It was only a matter of time before someone stupid would post this :facepalm:

mikantsass
02-11-2010, 11:03 AM
I think any thread that doesn't portray Kobe in a completely positive light is destined for closure...sadly.

They aren't better without Kobe. If you say that you are a moron. They are showing that maybe when he comes back, he should look to differ and get his teammates involved more and more. No more 30 shot, 2 assist games.

Completely agree. Thats like saying the Cavs are better without LeBron.

G-Funk
02-11-2010, 11:25 AM
trade him lmao

Knowledge
02-11-2010, 11:52 AM
It shows that the Lakers are talented enough to be a playoff team without kobe, but they need Kobe to be a championship team.

Gibby23
02-11-2010, 12:46 PM
Can we have someone create a thread after every single lakers game? All non Laker fans reallllllly want up to the minute details on all lakers news.
Maybe we can move their game threads to the NBA forum too.

2 games guys, seriously. They were really impressive wins, but not thread worth.

Thats pretty funny because a Heat fan made this thread.

Tony_Starks
02-11-2010, 12:48 PM
LO and Pau's chemistry these past few games looks off the charts. It's also been clear to me that Drew is better when he isn't out there with Pau. For those two reasons, I definitely think Drew should come off the bench.


You have to keep in mind that come playoff time Bynum tends to get in foul trouble early anyway so LO still gets most of the minutes with Gasol. I'd keep Bynum as a starter simply for the matchup disaster it creates with his and Gasol's length and then the sparkplug of LO coming off the bench.

showtym24
02-11-2010, 01:06 PM
Oh you mean when Dirk and Nash were leading their teams to 65+ wins seasons? Great logic there chief.

I was going by MostValuablePlayer like the other poster said. You cant tell me they were of greater Value then kobe to his team during them years.

showtym24
02-11-2010, 01:09 PM
R U kidding me with this...

05-06 year Nash mvp
Nash: 18.8 pts / 4.2 reb / 10.5 ast ( team won 54 games )
kobe: 35.4 pts / 5.3 reb / 4.5 ast ( team won 45 games )
why not give the mvp to Duncan this year his team won 63 games 18.6/11.0/3.2


87-88 year MJ mvp
MJ: 35.0 pts / 5.5 reb / 5.9 ast ( team won 50 games )
Magic: 19.6 pts / 6.2 reb / 11.9 ( team won 62 games )

great logic there chief.:facepalm:

Thank you, kobe got robbed and he's too biased to realize it.

Highlight
02-11-2010, 01:26 PM
For all the people on PSD who follow the Lakers closely and unbiasedly, I would think you would realize that our main issue is our starting line up. There's already a report that all of the Lakers coaching staff is trying to convince Phil to begin starting Odom with Pau and putting Bynum on the bench with the second unit.

Our offense looks so fluid when Odom and Pau are in the game. It's because on defense Odom rotates so much better in the pick n roll and on offense he can make that extra pass to get us a bucket.

On top of that, Odom isn't even worried about his numbers. He just does whatever the team needs and many NBA fans in general notice that Bynum is looking to score and that's not what this team needs. Phil has said it since the beginning of the year, that Bynum needs to be a defensive presence and Bynum is more intrigued with putting up points than rebounding the ball and getting stops, which don't pad his stats. Odom on the other hand, will do all the dirty work to get a W.

Yes, Kobe takes ill-advised shots at times and blah blah blah, but a lot of Kobe's "bad" shots come because our offense is so stagnant and he just pulls up for a contested double teamed fade away jumper with the shock clock running down. I'm not saying he doesn't take bad shots, because it's obvious Kobe does that at times, but the real issue is our offense honestly looks pretty damn disgusting with Bynum and Pau out there.

Pau loves the spacing of the floor and so does every other Laker player. The floor is so spaced and everyone has room to work, but when you have Bynum and Pau out there together, the lane is beyond clogged and everyone's settling for jumpers, including Pau.

Bynum would actually flourish with the 2nd unit because he could actually demand the ball and he would have 3 shooters out there with him that include: Shannon, Farmar, and Vujacic at times. It's to his benefit to come off the bench. I just wish he could do what Luke Walton did for the Lakers last year, which was ask Phil to bring him off the bench and start Ariza because they looked better that way.

I know Phil will hesitate bringing Bynum off the bench, because we all know he's a "relationship" type coach that wants to keep his players happy and he knows the move will probably make Bynum lose confidence in himself, which it shouldn't.

A healthy Kobe, and a starting unit that includes Artest, Odom, Fisher, and Pau, will flourish. There will be times when the Bynum Pau duo may be necessary to bring out again, but I think all Lakers fans would love to see Odom starting again.

These past few games are not the only reason why I feel this way. I have lobbied doing this in the past as well and anyone who looks at my prior posts could find me lobbying for Odom and Pau to start again. They've always looked so fluid and that's why Phil ended A LOT of games with Pau and Odom.

Yes, Kobe should deffer a bit more to his teammates, but I know he is more than willing to (In the past he has) if he sees results and results will not begin to show until Odom is out there starting.

Sorry for the rant, but that's just my 2 cents.

Tony_Starks
02-11-2010, 01:37 PM
I'll put it like this:we won championship last year with Bynum starting. We've got the second best record in the league and best of the West. If it ain't broke........

Highlight
02-11-2010, 01:37 PM
ok, I thought my rant was over, but it's not. :(

A starting line up of Bynum, Pau, Kobe, Artest, and fisher I think could still do well, but only with a healthy Kobe. That means without the broken finger. When Kobe can hit all those difficult shots, the Lakers will still continue to do well, but with a banged up Kobe, this line up looks terrible.

Anyone remember the Kobe at the beginning of the year, that lived in the post while Pau was gone, shot 50 percent from the field, and was extremely hard to guard? I don't see why that type of play couldn't come back if Odom were to start. The spacing on the floor would open up again because opposing teams have to at least contest Odom's jumpers and Kobe could get back to hitting high percentage fade aways in the post.

That's just another benefit to having Odom in the starting line up. Not to mention Pau would have more than enough room to bang down low. (I know Pau doesn't bang in the post, but whatever, that's the only word that would come to my mind at the moment and I just don't care) :facepalm:

Highlight
02-11-2010, 01:40 PM
I'll put it like this:we won championship last year with Bynum starting. We've got the second best record in the league and best of the West. If it ain't broke........

I agree, but I don't at the same time.

We were good when Kobe was healthy and we had the bigger line up, but with a Kobe who can't shoot as well as he did because of his now broken index finger, that line up is no longer the best line up the Lakers can put out on the floor.

With a healthy Kobe, I would agree with you, but not with this Kobe. He needs to get back to getting to the post and taking high percentage shots because his hand won't allow him to do what the old Kobe used to do and that is jack up ridiculous shots that would drop anyways. Kobe needs Odom starting just as much as Pau, Fisher, and Artest.

king4day
02-11-2010, 01:50 PM
Thats pretty funny because a Heat fan made this thread.

Yea that really is odd.
It's not always Lakers fans creating these threads. Not even always about the Lakers even. Just amazing that one is created after 2 games.
You give me 5-10 games of great ball like they've been playing, then it's most certainly worthy.
But two games is silly. May as well just create one for the Blazers and Hornets (again). :-/

Zefflin
02-11-2010, 01:52 PM
No need to apologize for a great rant good sir.

TmacBryant
02-11-2010, 01:57 PM
For all the people on PSD who follow the Lakers closely and unbiasedly, I would think you would realize that our main issue is our starting line up. There's already a report that all of the Lakers coaching staff is trying to convince Phil to begin starting Odom with Pau and putting Bynum on the bench with the second unit.

Our offense looks so fluid when Odom and Pau are in the game. It's because on defense Odom rotates so much better in the pick n roll and on offense he can make that extra pass to get us a bucket.

On top of that, Odom isn't even worried about his numbers. He just does whatever the team needs and many NBA fans in general notice that Bynum is looking to score and that's not what this team needs. Phil has said it since the beginning of the year, that Bynum needs to be a defensive presence and Bynum is more intrigued with putting up points than rebounding the ball and getting stops, which don't pad his stats. Odom on the other hand, will do all the dirty work to get a W.

Yes, Kobe takes ill-advised shots at times and blah blah blah, but a lot of Kobe's "bad" shots come because our offense is so stagnant and he just pulls up for a contested double teamed fade away jumper with the shock clock running down. I'm not saying he doesn't take bad shots, because it's obvious Kobe does that at times, but the real issue is our offense honestly looks pretty damn disgusting with Bynum and Pau out there.

Pau loves the spacing of the floor and so does every other Laker player. The floor is so spaced and everyone has room to work, but when you have Bynum and Pau out there together, the lane is beyond clogged and everyone's settling for jumpers, including Pau.

Bynum would actually flourish with the 2nd unit because he could actually demand the ball and he would have 3 shooters out there with him that include: Shannon, Farmar, and Vujacic at times. It's to his benefit to come off the bench. I just wish he could do what Luke Walton did for the Lakers last year, which was ask Phil to bring him off the bench and start Ariza because they looked better that way.

I know Phil will hesitate bringing Bynum off the bench, because we all know he's a "relationship" type coach that wants to keep his players happy and he knows the move will probably make Bynum lose confidence in himself, which it shouldn't.

A healthy Kobe, and a starting unit that includes Artest, Odom, Fisher, and Pau, will flourish. There will be times when the Bynum Pau duo may be necessary to bring out again, but I think all Lakers fans would love to see Odom starting again.

These past few games are not the only reason why I feel this way. I have lobbied doing this in the past as well and anyone who looks at my prior posts could find me lobbying for Odom and Pau to start again. They've always looked so fluid and that's why Phil ended A LOT of games with Pau and Odom.

Yes, Kobe should deffer a bit more to his teammates, but I know he is more than willing to (In the past he has) if he sees results and results will not begin to show until Odom is out there starting.

Sorry for the rant, but that's just my 2 cents.




ok, I thought my rant was over, but it's not. :(

A starting line up of Bynum, Pau, Kobe, Artest, and fisher I think could still do well, but only with a healthy Kobe. That means without the broken finger. When Kobe can hit all those difficult shots, the Lakers will still continue to do well, but with a banged up Kobe, this line up looks terrible.

Anyone remember the Kobe at the beginning of the year, that lived in the post while Pau was gone, shot 50 percent from the field, and was extremely hard to guard? I don't see why that type of play couldn't come back if Odom were to start. The spacing on the floor would open up again because opposing teams have to at least contest Odom's jumpers and Kobe could get back to hitting high percentage fade aways in the post.

That's just another benefit to having Odom in the starting line up. Not to mention Pau would have more than enough room to bang down low. (I know Pau doesn't bang in the post, but whatever, that's the only word that would come to my mind at the moment and I just don't care) :facepalm:

Wow, couldn't have said it any better myself. I've been lobbying for the same thing.

Great insightful posts. :clap:

iggypop123
02-11-2010, 02:02 PM
For all the people on PSD who follow the Lakers closely and unbiasedly, I would think you would realize that our main issue is our starting line up. There's already a report that all of the Lakers coaching staff is trying to convince Phil to begin starting Odom with Pau and putting Bynum on the bench with the second unit.

Our offense looks so fluid when Odom and Pau are in the game. It's because on defense Odom rotates so much better in the pick n roll and on offense he can make that extra pass to get us a bucket.

On top of that, Odom isn't even worried about his numbers. He just does whatever the team needs and many NBA fans in general notice that Bynum is looking to score and that's not what this team needs. Phil has said it since the beginning of the year, that Bynum needs to be a defensive presence and Bynum is more intrigued with putting up points than rebounding the ball and getting stops, which don't pad his stats. Odom on the other hand, will do all the dirty work to get a W.

Yes, Kobe takes ill-advised shots at times and blah blah blah, but a lot of Kobe's "bad" shots come because our offense is so stagnant and he just pulls up for a contested double teamed fade away jumper with the shock clock running down. I'm not saying he doesn't take bad shots, because it's obvious Kobe does that at times, but the real issue is our offense honestly looks pretty damn disgusting with Bynum and Pau out there.

Pau loves the spacing of the floor and so does every other Laker player. The floor is so spaced and everyone has room to work, but when you have Bynum and Pau out there together, the lane is beyond clogged and everyone's settling for jumpers, including Pau.

Bynum would actually flourish with the 2nd unit because he could actually demand the ball and he would have 3 shooters out there with him that include: Shannon, Farmar, and Vujacic at times. It's to his benefit to come off the bench. I just wish he could do what Luke Walton did for the Lakers last year, which was ask Phil to bring him off the bench and start Ariza because they looked better that way.

I know Phil will hesitate bringing Bynum off the bench, because we all know he's a "relationship" type coach that wants to keep his players happy and he knows the move will probably make Bynum lose confidence in himself, which it shouldn't.

A healthy Kobe, and a starting unit that includes Artest, Odom, Fisher, and Pau, will flourish. There will be times when the Bynum Pau duo may be necessary to bring out again, but I think all Lakers fans would love to see Odom starting again.

These past few games are not the only reason why I feel this way. I have lobbied doing this in the past as well and anyone who looks at my prior posts could find me lobbying for Odom and Pau to start again. They've always looked so fluid and that's why Phil ended A LOT of games with Pau and Odom.

Yes, Kobe should deffer a bit more to his teammates, but I know he is more than willing to (In the past he has) if he sees results and results will not begin to show until Odom is out there starting.

Sorry for the rant, but that's just my 2 cents.

no he wont. they play up tempo. farmar will never pass him the ball and just ask for screens.

Highlight
02-11-2010, 02:13 PM
no he wont. they play up tempo. farmar will never pass him the ball and just ask for screens.

Yes they play up tempo, but that doesn't mean they will never be in a half court set.

I understand what you are saying, but every time they get into a halfcourt set, Bynum will get a touch because they will either let him play 1 on 1, or double and force him to pass to the shooters that will be out there.

And yes, there will be times where he won't touch the ball and that is when the Lakers are running and they shoot before he gets down the floor, but to say he won't do well with the second unit is something I don't agree with.

Not only that, but who's to say they can't slow down the game a little bit. I mean, Bynum is a really really good offensive post presence, and Shannon, Farmar, and Vujacic have great range, so I don't see why the Lakers couldn't slow down the game.

Either that or they can run a combo of both. Run when the opportunity is there and slow down when it's not. Simple as that. Bynum will be the number one option if he is on that second unit, which leads to more touches.

SilverHaze
02-11-2010, 02:50 PM
Yes they play up tempo, but that doesn't mean they will never be in a half court set.

I understand what you are saying, but every time they get into a halfcourt set, Bynum will get a touch because they will either let him play 1 on 1, or double and force him to pass to the shooters that will be out there.

And yes, there will be times where he won't touch the ball and that is when the Lakers are running and they shoot before he gets down the floor, but to say he won't do well with the second unit is something I don't agree with.

Not only that, but who's to say they can't slow down the game a little bit. I mean, Bynum is a really really good offensive post presence, and Shannon, Farmar, and Vujacic have great range, so I don't see why the Lakers couldn't slow down the game.

Either that or they can run a combo of both. Run when the opportunity is there and slow down when it's not. Simple as that. Bynum will be the number one option if he is on that second unit, which leads to more touches.

this is what needs to happen, bynum is a black hole on the offense and him being out is one of the reasons the lakers have looked so fluid not because kobes not there to jack up shots but because bynum isnt in the middle of the floor ready to suck up the ball and never give it back. letting kobe have some of that post space to operate instead of having both pau and bynum out there would be huge. the thing about bynum is hes just so damn fragile emotionally and physically. If there wasnt the scare of him completely breaking down and never producing again then he wouldve been on the bench a long arse time ago.

JordansBulls
02-11-2010, 02:53 PM
It may just be a coincidence but the Lakers actually look better without Kobe in the starting line-up. They are blowing teams out and continue to look unstoppable. The Lakers are obviously a better team with Kobe but we can also make a case that they're better without him.

Your thoughts..........

Lakers are obviously a good team without him, however he is the franchise player and he was their first, so everything should still go thru him.

Highlight
02-11-2010, 02:58 PM
Lakers are obviously a good team without him, however he is the franchise player and he was their first, so everything should still go thru him.

This isn't a good reason why the offense should go through Kobe... :shrug:

But yeah, him being the franchise player and the best player on that team is a good reason why the offense should go through him.

I just realized I am picking at your post, but w/e

I see the point you are trying to make.

RaiderLakersA's
02-11-2010, 03:02 PM
this is what needs to happen, bynum is a black hole on the offense and him being out is one of the reasons the lakers have looked so fluid not because kobes not there to jack up shots but because bynum isnt in the middle of the floor ready to suck up the ball and never give it back. letting kobe have some of that post space to operate instead of having both pau and bynum out there would be huge. the thing about bynum is hes just so damn fragile emotionally and physically. If there wasnt the scare of him completely breaking down and never producing again then he wouldve been on the bench a long arse time ago.

If Bynum is really that big an issue, the Lakers should cut bait and trade him for Chris Bosh now. Bosh could play with either unit, whether starting or coming off the bench, could work from the post or perimeter, and he's hungry enough for success and a title that he'd be the perfect spark plug.

PHX2daDEATH
02-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Oh you mean when Dirk and Nash were leading their teams to 65+ wins seasons? Great logic there chief.

Not to mention Eliminating the Lakers from the playoffs two years in a row.. and people wonder why I started 'Lakers are hobbled' thread..

Gibby23
02-11-2010, 03:17 PM
Not to mention Eliminating the Lakers from the playoffs two years in a row.. and people wonder why I started 'Lakers are hobbled' thread..

How many championships do the suns have to show for that?

PHX2daDEATH
02-11-2010, 03:21 PM
Basketball wise i think its amazing that they took down three western conference foes without Bryant.. I admit its scary..Maybe teams don't play at their highest level when they don't see #24 over there

DCB/LAL
02-11-2010, 03:27 PM
"Flamer", ahhh I remember 4th grade. Okay, have it your way kid. If you want to ignore every advanced number in the book (which would put Jordan as the best ever, WEIRD!), then take a look at their games. Lebron, on a severely worse team, is still able to compete with and during the reg season this year (OMGZ REG SEAZON LOL!) crush your King Kobe, Pau, and the rest of that cast.

Fun Fact: You're delusional. Christ I hope the Cavs win this year just to shut the Kobe cult up. Most of you are fine, but the ones that take it as a personal hit to their ego based on one ball player being better than another are just comedy. Hopefully the Lebron worshipers post-championship won't be this bad.

If you wanna go by stats and numbers then that would make Wilt Chamberlain the GOAT.


And the reg season games are what they are......reg season games. The Bobcats were able to beat LA and give them a hard time do you see and Bobcat fans claiming to be the future champions? No you dont.


And this should really scare every other team in the League Kobe goes and these guys step up maybe they've been holding back. All this means the Lakers are starting to pick it up for the second half of the season and Kobe is getting healthier.


After all the Lakers are NOT the Cavs they play for CHAMPIONSHIPS not reg season games.

PHX2daDEATH
02-11-2010, 03:30 PM
How many championships do the suns have to show for that?

Big fat zero...and thats okay, we all know its better for the league to have the titles in either Boston or L.A.

DCB/LAL
02-11-2010, 03:31 PM
Not to mention Eliminating the Lakers from the playoffs two years in a row.. and people wonder why I started 'Lakers are hobbled' thread..

Hey at least you won something that year you were able to beat the "GREAT" Los Angelas Lakers.......would of been better to win a championship but teams like PHX dont play for those.

BlondeBomber41
02-11-2010, 03:36 PM
R U kidding me with this...

05-06 year Nash mvp
Nash: 18.8 pts / 4.2 reb / 10.5 ast ( team won 54 games )
kobe: 35.4 pts / 5.3 reb / 4.5 ast ( team won 45 games )
why not give the mvp to Duncan this year his team won 63 games 18.6/11.0/3.2


87-88 year MJ mvp
MJ: 35.0 pts / 5.5 reb / 5.9 ast ( team won 50 games )
Magic: 19.6 pts / 6.2 reb / 11.9 ( team won 62 games )

great logic there chief.:facepalm:

Stats arent the big thing. Nash took a team without its #1 option in Amare to 54 wins, won the division, and even without Amare they knocked out Lakers. He was playing with guys like Tim Thomas and Boris Diaw playing huge roles.

If Duncan or Kobe would of been playing without a MVP caliber teammate and still been a contender then maybe they would of won it. Quit your *****in.

DCB/LAL
02-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Stats arent the big thing. Nash took a team without its #1 option in Amare to 54 wins, won the division, and even without Amare they knocked out Lakers. He was playing with guys like Tim Thomas and Boris Diaw playing huge roles.

If Duncan or Kobe would of been playing without a MVP caliber teammate and still been a contender then maybe they would of won it. Quit your *****in.

Kobe had an MVP caliber teammate that year? Who Smush Parker or Kwame Brown?

lakerboy
02-11-2010, 03:42 PM
Kobe had an MVP caliber teammate that year? Who Smush Parker or Kwame Brown?

Luke Walton:D

BlondeBomber41
02-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Kobe had an MVP caliber teammate that year? Who Smush Parker or Kwame Brown?

No, he didnt. Just like Nash didnt.... yet Nash won more games, won the division and knocked the Lakers out of the playoffs.

Chronz
02-11-2010, 03:58 PM
For all the people on PSD who follow the Lakers closely and unbiasedly, I would think you would realize that our main issue is our starting line up. There's already a report that all of the Lakers coaching staff is trying to convince Phil to begin starting Odom with Pau and putting Bynum on the bench with the second unit.

Our offense looks so fluid when Odom and Pau are in the game. It's because on defense Odom rotates so much better in the pick n roll and on offense he can make that extra pass to get us a bucket.

On top of that, Odom isn't even worried about his numbers. He just does whatever the team needs and many NBA fans in general notice that Bynum is looking to score and that's not what this team needs. Phil has said it since the beginning of the year, that Bynum needs to be a defensive presence and Bynum is more intrigued with putting up points than rebounding the ball and getting stops, which don't pad his stats. Odom on the other hand, will do all the dirty work to get a W.

Yes, Kobe takes ill-advised shots at times and blah blah blah, but a lot of Kobe's "bad" shots come because our offense is so stagnant and he just pulls up for a contested double teamed fade away jumper with the shock clock running down. I'm not saying he doesn't take bad shots, because it's obvious Kobe does that at times, but the real issue is our offense honestly looks pretty damn disgusting with Bynum and Pau out there.

Pau loves the spacing of the floor and so does every other Laker player. The floor is so spaced and everyone has room to work, but when you have Bynum and Pau out there together, the lane is beyond clogged and everyone's settling for jumpers, including Pau.

Bynum would actually flourish with the 2nd unit because he could actually demand the ball and he would have 3 shooters out there with him that include: Shannon, Farmar, and Vujacic at times. It's to his benefit to come off the bench. I just wish he could do what Luke Walton did for the Lakers last year, which was ask Phil to bring him off the bench and start Ariza because they looked better that way.

I know Phil will hesitate bringing Bynum off the bench, because we all know he's a "relationship" type coach that wants to keep his players happy and he knows the move will probably make Bynum lose confidence in himself, which it shouldn't.

A healthy Kobe, and a starting unit that includes Artest, Odom, Fisher, and Pau, will flourish. There will be times when the Bynum Pau duo may be necessary to bring out again, but I think all Lakers fans would love to see Odom starting again.

These past few games are not the only reason why I feel this way. I have lobbied doing this in the past as well and anyone who looks at my prior posts could find me lobbying for Odom and Pau to start again. They've always looked so fluid and that's why Phil ended A LOT of games with Pau and Odom.

Yes, Kobe should deffer a bit more to his teammates, but I know he is more than willing to (In the past he has) if he sees results and results will not begin to show until Odom is out there starting.

Sorry for the rant, but that's just my 2 cents.

I was going to create a thread titled "Why isnt Phi Jackson as Smart as Laker fan" I was going to fill it with all sorts of stats and junkbut you basically covered everything so its pointless. THANKS

Chronz
02-11-2010, 04:01 PM
Yes they play up tempo, but that doesn't mean they will never be in a half court set.

I understand what you are saying, but every time they get into a halfcourt set, Bynum will get a touch because they will either let him play 1 on 1, or double and force him to pass to the shooters that will be out there.

And yes, there will be times where he won't touch the ball and that is when the Lakers are running and they shoot before he gets down the floor, but to say he won't do well with the second unit is something I don't agree with.

Not only that, but who's to say they can't slow down the game a little bit. I mean, Bynum is a really really good offensive post presence, and Shannon, Farmar, and Vujacic have great range, so I don't see why the Lakers couldn't slow down the game.

Either that or they can run a combo of both. Run when the opportunity is there and slow down when it's not. Simple as that. Bynum will be the number one option if he is on that second unit, which leads to more touches.

Players typically struggle when they play in the 2nd unit because of the inferior teammates, its partly why Odom sucks. But Bynum has thrived in that role before, I dont think it would be a problem for him especially since all he wants to do is chuck.

lakerboy
02-11-2010, 04:02 PM
No, he didnt. Just like Nash didnt.... yet Nash won more games, won the division and knocked the Lakers out of the playoffs.

Nash had the coach of the year in D'Antoni
Nash had another all-star, Shawn Marion
Nash had the 6th man of the year, Leandro Barbosa
Nash had the most improved player, Boris Diaw
Nash had a top defensive player of the year candidate, Raja Bell

The truth is, Dallas and Phoenix have laways had really really stacked teams, and never got the job done. Real talk.

lakerboy
02-11-2010, 04:03 PM
And Nash only had an injured Amare for what, one year? He played years with him, and with Joe Johnson too. He never got the job done.

chitown 4 life
02-11-2010, 04:05 PM
This is true lets see ill give you deng str8 up for kb right now you dont need him....lol

lakerboy
02-11-2010, 05:02 PM
Hey at least you won something that year you were able to beat the "GREAT" Los Angelas Lakers.......would of been better to win a championship but teams like PHX dont play for those.

Actually they were pacific division champions:D