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View Full Version : Is scoring overated nowdays?



Hellcrooner
02-09-2010, 06:20 AM
Ill take an example for tonight.

Two teams won with VERY REAMARKABLE performances by one of their players.


Orlando Won with a 48 pts 7 reb 2 assists by VInce

Lakers won with 21 Pts, 19 Reb 8 Asst, 5 Blocs 1 Steal From Pau

both turned the ball twice

Espn says Vince is the man of the night.

Do you agree?

What would you like more?

tredigs
02-09-2010, 07:13 AM
Vince is absolutely the man of the night, for the simple fact that he led the team on his back to a major comeback tonight against a Hornets team who had three players that WERE NOT missing. It was just one of those performances where a player took over the game and could do no wrong.

Pau's game tonight was VERY nice overall, but Vince wasn't shot-chucking for this 48, he went 19-27 from the field (6/10 from three 4/4 FT). So he put up 48 with 27 shots and only 4 free throws. That is almost unheard of.

PhillyPhan626
02-09-2010, 07:16 AM
I'd say VC just because of the fact that he doesn't have to have a well rounded game for them to win and scoring 48 points is incredible, especially when dwight's grabbing everything that doesn't fall... shooting 19-27 is really good in itself... I'll go with Vince over Pau... Pau was looked at more without Kobe doing his thing 8-20 which is nothing special... Both great lines though, Pau's was more well rounded, VC's was more game changing...

TopsyTurvy
02-09-2010, 11:04 AM
Scoring is the end result of every stat recorded in the NBA. For example, a defensive rebound prevents an offensive rebound by the opposing team, which prevents a second chance basket. A steal or a block can quite literally turn into a 4 point swing for your team. A turnover can translate into unanswered scoring by your opponent.

Scoring is the end game of every play and as such, it cannot be overrated.

That being said, when evaluating players -- you can place too much emphasis on scoring. Not paying attention to the details of a players play beyond PPG could lead to misconceptions. For example, David Lee is heading to the all-star game this year. His scoring average (and RPG) is through the roof, but it's a mistake to assume he plays larger than he is at 6'9", jumps through the roof, and plays lock down defense against larger men when the reality may be that he is surrounded with sub-par talent and pulling more than his fair share of the work for the team.

Edit: I'm not picking on David Lee or the Knicks. I like his game, just feel that outsiders may have misconceptions based upon his stat line.

RadiantShot
02-09-2010, 11:42 AM
Yeah, Vince was the guy yesterday night. I'd expect Pau to put up those numbers with Kobe out. Vince..Put up those numbers when they needed him to. He was 'go-to' like we intended him to be, and pretty much brought us back from a deficit. There was one point in the game where he scored 15 of the last 22 points, and it put us over the top.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 12:52 PM
LMFAO! How did I know Crooner would take exception to VC winning man of the night over Pau. VC arguably had the best offensive performance of his career, whereas Pau had a game that Dwight has once, maybe twice a month.

Let it go dude, VC was the man last night!

AIMelo=KillaDUO
02-09-2010, 01:10 PM
Crooner you obviously didn't watch tha Magic game last night, cuz if you did you woulda see that Vince lead a huge comeback not to mention that he was playin outta his mind.

I haven't seen that since the Toronto days

Wilson
02-09-2010, 01:26 PM
I'd say VC just because of the fact that he doesn't have to have a well rounded game for them to win and scoring 48 points is incredible, especially when dwight's grabbing everything that doesn't fall... shooting 19-27 is really good in itself... I'll go with Vince over Pau... Pau was looked at more without Kobe doing his thing 8-20 which is nothing special... Both great lines though, Pau's was more well rounded, VC's was more game changing...

Don't the bolded parts suggest Pau should have won? Pau had to do a lot of things, Vince just had to score.

With that being said however, I don't really have a problem with Vince winning. As someone mentioned, he probably had the offensive game of his life, and led a big comeback. It's also huge for him and the team because of the chemistry problems they have had to deal with, this was a huge step forward for the whole team.

Plus, as great as Pau's game was, other Lakers besides him stepped up. Lamar has been great recently, Ron Artest played well and the back-court and reserves played solidly.

----

To answer the question in the thread title, I think scoring may have become over-rated at some point in time. However, with the growth of superstats (win shares, effeciency, total shot percentage, rebounding shares etc.), we're heading away from that outlook.

Chronz
02-09-2010, 03:02 PM
No, scoring is the most important aspect of basketball. Put it this way, Pau took 8 less shots and scored what 28PTS less? **** thats insane

Hellcrooner
02-09-2010, 03:06 PM
LMFAO! How did I know Crooner would take exception to VC winning man of the night over Pau. VC arguably had the best offensive performance of his career, whereas Pau had a game that Dwight has once, maybe twice a month.

Let it go dude, VC was the man last night!

howard making 8 assistsin a game?

every month=


?

ha ha ha ha ha ahhaha

_Supreme_
02-09-2010, 03:19 PM
The NBA = all about scoring scoring scoring. Has been like that for a while now.

Like it or not, the guy who scores the most will get the headlines over any other stat. Scoring sells the jerseys to the kiddies, because they want to wear the guy who scores all the points. He is the coowl guy, not the guy who gets all the rebounds. Scoring makes the NBA the most $$$, so that is where all the attention goes.

I probably agree with you Hellcrooner (I did not see the games though), but you should just get used to the guy who scores much > the guy who does the other things, no matter how unfair it seems.

Double_R
02-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Scoring is only overrated if it takes you 20 shots to get 21 pts

Scoring is underratted when you get 48pts on only 27 shots

Close this stupid thread...Your example doesn't work

tredigs
02-09-2010, 03:41 PM
Scoring is only overrated if it takes you 20 shots to get 21 pts

Scoring is underratted when you get 48pts on only 27 shots

Close this stupid thread...Your example doesn't work

He's right dude, couldn't have picked a worse example. You had to pick the night the guy has a career game and carries the team on his back to close a big deficit while scoring 48 on 70% shooting??

Even the 26 or so that Monta scores in an often me-first fashion can't really be considered overrated by anyone but Don Nelson, seeing as he's top 5-6 in the league in scoring but still didn't make the West all star game with 2 injury subs. Which tells you that all three groups: Fans (casual and bigtime), Coaches, and the Commish didn't quite think he made the cut.

In summation? No, it ain't.

Hellcrooner
02-09-2010, 03:54 PM
Oh we are forgetting that Pau lead a team withouth KOBE and withouth Bynum to win against suposedly one of the best teams?

also TIM DUNCAN was covering him ( and pau was also able to cancel TD on deffense)

Who was going vince against?

arkanian215
02-09-2010, 03:56 PM
last time i checked the object of the game is still to outscore your opponents.

RadiantShot
02-09-2010, 04:05 PM
Holy ****, Vince was shooting 70%?

What the Fk?

IndyRealist
02-09-2010, 04:05 PM
Scoring is overrated.

Scoring efficiency is underrated.

Vince had a very efficient night.

tredigs
02-09-2010, 04:17 PM
Oh we are forgetting that Pau lead a team withouth KOBE and withouth Bynum to win against suposedly one of the best teams?

also TIM DUNCAN was covering him ( and pau was also able to cancel TD on deffense)

Who was going vince against?

Are we forgetting that the Spurs aren't quite the team of yester-year and are 10-11 on the road this year? Also, Lamar and Artest are beast when they're given some room to breathe. I'm not surprised one bit to see this team beat top ten teams without Kobe, been expecting it actually. That's not to take away from Pau's game, it was nice. He's an amazing player in his prime, I expect big nights like this every so often.
And so long as Vince Carter isn't on TNT an hour earlier going SuperNova, he'll get those man of the nights for ya..

mikantsass
02-09-2010, 04:22 PM
I'll say Vince was easily the man of the night simply because I am sick of Crooner's Gasol worshipping

Hellcrooner
02-09-2010, 06:22 PM
^not to mention you hate Gasol.

albertc86
02-09-2010, 06:30 PM
You couldn't resist could you? You just had to plug a Spanish player. geez.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 09:59 PM
howard making 8 assistsin a game?

every month=


?

ha ha ha ha ha ahhaha

Maybe not 8 assists, but getting around 8 blocks and exceeding 20 rebounds are common to him.

What's funny is that he tore Pau up in every possible way when they played against one another this season.

Hellcrooner
02-09-2010, 10:27 PM
Maybe not 8 assists, but getting around 8 blocks and exceeding 20 rebounds are common to him.

What's funny is that he tore Pau up in every possible way when they played against one another this season.


enjoy that game.

Ill keep enyoign Howards 15 ppg in the finals and our RING

Raph12
02-09-2010, 10:58 PM
enjoy that game.

Ill keep enyoign Howards 15 ppg in the finals and our RING

I will, because when it comes right down to it, Pau never won anything as the best player on his team, and he never will.

Dwight will go down as a HOFer and one of the best centers to play the game, whereas Pau will be another run-of-the-mill PF like Webber.

Hellcrooner
02-09-2010, 11:15 PM
^ havent you read the news? Espn journalist and such and some fans too are starting to wonder if Dwight will EVER develope some offensive game v some finesse and or some kind of jumpshot or if he will become next Shawn Kemp or Stanley RObinson.

I hope not and that he still can learn and we can have a shaq part II.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 11:22 PM
^ havent you read the news? Espn journalist and such and some fans too are starting to wonder if Dwight will EVER develope some offensive game v some finesse and or some kind of jumpshot or if he will become next Shawn Kemp or Stanley RObinson.

I hope not and that he still can learn and we can have a shaq part II.

LMFAO if you've been watching Dwight in the last 15-25 games, you'd know his offense is coming along very nicely and the Magic are surging because of it.

Btw Shaq has little to no post moves and definitely no finesse down low, he is a great passer out of the post though. He plays like a Bull, he just bullies his way to his comfort range (5 feet or closer) and drops a short hook, layup or dunk.

Showmeyourtds
02-09-2010, 11:37 PM
Both players had phenomenal games but I believe that the player that contributes the most to his team on that night is going to get the award and that was definitely Vince Carter. I am a lakers fan but the stats dont lie and Vince carried that team to a victory which is nice to see after his putrid shooting this year.

Showmeyourtds
02-09-2010, 11:41 PM
LMFAO if you've been watching Dwight in the last 15-25 games, you'd know his offense is coming along very nicely and the Magic are surging because of it.

Btw Shaq has little to no post moves and definitely no finesse down low, he is a great passer out of the post though. He plays like a Bull, he just bullies his way to his comfort range (5 feet or closer) and drops a short hook, layup or dunk.

Shaq may have little to no post moves now because he has no athleticism but to say he did not in his prime could quite possibly be the dumbest statement ever. He was an absolute machine on the block and yes his game was based on strength but he had some good post moves that Dwight would be lucky to ever have. I am pretty sure shaq didnt average 30pts a game with free throws or a mid range game.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 11:55 PM
Shaq may have little to no post moves now because he has no athleticism but to say he did not in his prime could quite possibly be the dumbest statement ever. He was an absolute machine on the block and yes his game was based on strength but he had some good post moves that Dwight would be lucky to ever have. I am pretty sure shaq didnt average 30pts a game with free throws or a mid range game.

Shaq in his prime was stronger than any guy in the history of the NBA and in an era where the refs let them play with limited foul calls, he easily bullied his way to the basket and got his without much finesse at all.

Go back and watch him, like 5-10 of his fgs made were dunks, layups or short hooks. His postmoves consisted of a spin move or a dropstep, both of which Dwight currently possesses.

His passing was truly a sight to see and his handling was very good for a big man, but his range was extremely limited and his moves in the post were predictable. The problem is, he was still too big and too strong to be stopped, and if you tried to double, he'd hit the open guy for the easy look.

Wilson
02-10-2010, 12:01 AM
I do think Shaq's passing ability has been under-rated throughout his career. It's something we Laker fans are looking for out of Andrew Bynum at the moment.

Showmeyourtds
02-10-2010, 12:14 AM
With all this said I still can't stand shaq and only tolerated him on the Lakers because he won championships. It would be a wonderful sight to see if he choked for the Cavaliers in crunch time of the playoffs and James just stares him down and tells him hes washed up.

ldc62
02-10-2010, 01:34 AM
Who cares about player of the night... Scoring isn't overrated because last time I checked, the team with more points wins. Not the team with more rebounds or assists. Close thread.

Wilson
02-10-2010, 01:56 AM
Who cares about player of the night... Scoring isn't overrated because last time I checked, the team with more points wins. Not the team with more rebounds or assists. Close thread.

Rebounds and assists lead directly to point production though. If a team gets ten more rebounds, that's ten more scoring opportunities.

Also, it's about stopping the other team from scoring just as much as it is outscoring them.

Regarding those factors, Pau Gasol had 19 rebounds, 8 assists and 5 blocks.

Like I said earlier, I'm not saying that Vince Carter didn't deserve the award, I'm just saying Pau's impact on that game against the Spurs is undeniable, even if he did only shoot 8/20.

Spurred1
02-10-2010, 05:08 AM
Oh we are forgetting that Pau lead a team withouth KOBE and withouth Bynum to win against suposedly one of the best teams?

also TIM DUNCAN was covering him ( and pau was also able to cancel TD on deffense)

Who was going vince against?

HC-The Spurs have struggled terribly against winning teams this year. They've been swept by Utah, Portland, lost twice to the Mavs so far, lost twice to the Nuggets so far, lost to Boston, Phoenix, etc,etc,etc. They have taken a major step back from being one of the best teams.
Duncan also didn't cover Gasol all night. They basically held each other in check-when Pop pulled Duncan and put other guys-Blair/McDyess in, Gasol played much better.
This isn't to take away from what Gasol did, but you're over exaggerating here. He had a great night, but what Carter did was more impressive-bringing the team back from a large deficit and winning the game for his team. Trying to demean one player's accomplishment to prop up your player's accomplishment comes off as desperate.

heathonater
02-10-2010, 06:28 AM
once you get past 40 points and are shooting around 50%, then points are important. however, a guy scoring 30 but shooting 35-40% from the field with little contributions in blocks, assists, steals, rebounds, etc. could probably do his team better in passing it a little more. scoring is important, but how efficient you are in getting those points and how you involve teammates is more important.

SpeeMN
02-10-2010, 10:12 AM
Vince Carter is 33 years old. He scored 48 points in one game. Wow, does anyone know what other 32+ old guys have scored nearly 50 or more?? Very good game.