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View Full Version : John Wall, Most Hyped PG Ever???



Swashcuff
02-08-2010, 09:15 PM
Has there ever been a point guard coming out of college that has been this hyped? He has more or less already been anointed as the saviour to any franchise that drafts him. From what I have seen he is really really good. But is he that great? Some posters have even said that he is a going top 5 point guard next season. I understand he possesses the intangibles and the unteachables that only a select few a blessed with but I have not seen much of the games he's played.........

So could someone(s) please enlighten me as to why the kid is so hyped.

JWO35
02-08-2010, 09:19 PM
Yeah...Wall is really hype(I think he's the real deal)
But, I'm on the Evan Turner bandwagon!! :up:

PurpleJesus
02-08-2010, 09:20 PM
hes as hyped as any unanimous #1 overall pick, Blake Griffin was this hyped last year

A couple of exceptions to the hype of the unanimous #1 pick are lebron jame and yao ming, they were more hyped

Swashcuff
02-08-2010, 09:28 PM
hes as hyped as any unanimous #1 overall pick, Blake Griffin was this hyped last year

A couple of exceptions to the hype of the unanimous #1 pick are lebron jame and yao ming, they were more hyped

Yeah but all that hype came over Griffin as he progressed during the course of the season. Before that he was not pencilled in as the number like Wall is now or has been for the last 3 months.

arkanian215
02-08-2010, 09:29 PM
they have to hype someone. right now wall is the unanimous number 1 pick even if the team already has an established pg. this happens when people think that the top pick is head and shoulders above the rest. evan turner would be getting a little more hype if he didn't get injured and kept producing.

vash9
02-08-2010, 09:31 PM
John Wall = Win.

JOSKOMANG4
02-08-2010, 09:51 PM
Most hyped up & overrated PG.. Ricky Rubio.

JasonJohnHorn
02-08-2010, 09:58 PM
Outside of the forums here, I haven't personally seen very much hype. Magic Johnson had A LOT of hype back in the day, and I heard more about Rose coming up than I have heard about Wall, and Penny Hardaway got a LOT of hype (everybody thought he was the next Magic). Jason Kidd had a lot too, as did Payton. And Bo kimble actually had a lot of hype to, but I think that was just a rub off from Hank Gathers, and he didn't last in the league very long.

Bishnoff
02-08-2010, 09:59 PM
Has there ever been a point guard coming out of college that has been this hyped? He has more or less already been anointed as the saviour to any franchise that drafts him. From what I have seen he is really really good. But is he that great? Some posters have even said that he is a going top 5 point guard next season. I understand he possesses the intangibles and the unteachables that only a select few a blessed with but I have not seen much of the games he's played.........

So could someone(s) please enlighten me as to why the kid is so hyped.

He always finds the open man. Wall goes on stints where he will drop 10 or so points and changes the flow of the game. He is rarely troubled bringing the ball up the court even when he has 3 guys coming at him. He runs the Kentucky offense at a good tempo and the team as a whole usually wait for the best option. Wall regularly produces the spectacular whether it be a steal and open court dunk, block from behind, splitting drive, or no look pass. His 3 point shooting is improving all the time and he has shown that he has NBA range. Wall is one of the fastest guys with the ball that I've ever seen (sometimes too fast). He is tenacious on defense and has the size to trouble most PG’s (even when he makes it to the NBA).

mikantsass
02-08-2010, 10:08 PM
Most hyped up & overrated PG.. Ricky Rubio.

True that, I take back my Rose statement. Its definitely Rubio.

Swashcuff
02-08-2010, 10:11 PM
Outside of the forums here, I haven't personally seen very much hype. Magic Johnson had A LOT of hype back in the day, and I heard more about Rose coming up than I have heard about Wall, and Penny Hardaway got a LOT of hype (everybody thought he was the next Magic). Jason Kidd had a lot too, as did Payton. And Bo kimble actually had a lot of hype to, but I think that was just a rub off from Hank Gathers, and he didn't last in the league very long.

I understand your points and they are valid but from what I can recollect none of those guys probly with the exception of magic was dubbed "the saviour". Penny had a lot of hype to tho.

td0tsfinest
02-08-2010, 10:16 PM
Sebstian Telfair definitely had some hype coming into the NBA.

ou know your big when Derek Jeter and Jay-z are coming to your HS games.

heathonater
02-08-2010, 10:18 PM
Yeah...Wall is really hype(I think he's the real deal)
But, I'm on the Evan Turner bandwagon!! :up:

the few times ive seen him on sportscenter he has had monster games. my brother keeps telling me about how good he is. probably should watch a couple of turner's games.

PurpleJesus
02-08-2010, 10:21 PM
Sebstian Telfair definitely had some hype coming into the NBA.

ou know your big when Derek Jeter and Jay-z are coming to your HS games.

yeah, Bassy had a lot of hype, he was a highschool phenom, but the NBA scouts were never in love with him

BkOriginalOne
02-08-2010, 10:22 PM
Rubio was pretty hyped.

albertc86
02-08-2010, 10:30 PM
I think Telfair had more hype. He had his own documentary on ESPN and everything. Like a poster above me said --- Jay Z came out and a number of celebrities and NBA players.

Swashcuff
02-08-2010, 10:36 PM
I think Telfair had more hype. He had his own documentary on ESPN and everything. Like a poster above me said --- Jay Z came out and a number of celebrities and NBA players.

Thats why i specifically said out of college. But even Telfair wasn't touted as being the next great thing. He was severely over-hyped!!!

kobe24>lebron23
02-08-2010, 10:38 PM
i dont think wall is that good i mean ive seen to games and really he makes alot of mistakes out there he passes 2 much even when he's wide open

PurpleJesus
02-08-2010, 10:44 PM
Telfair was a media darling, but NBA scouts never jumped on his nuts...he was drafted like 13th i think? I think if the media didnt give him as much attention he woulda went around 23-25.

TheKing23
02-08-2010, 11:01 PM
i dont think wall is that good i mean ive seen to games and really he makes alot of mistakes out there he passes 2 much even when he's wide open

:facepalm:

How can you criticize a PG by saying "he passes too much"...

Cash
02-08-2010, 11:02 PM
I would say Wall is definitely the most hyped right now. Rose wasn't even the unanimous #1 pick in that draft. I think Wall is gonna be great, but I'm not sure if he has the right skill set to be put in the same sentence as Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, etc... he has too much of a scorers mentality. Maybe a better scoring Chauncy Billups?

vash9
02-08-2010, 11:17 PM
i dont think wall is that good i mean ive seen to games and really he makes alot of mistakes out there he passes 2 much even when he's wide open

....You don't like him because he passes too much for a PG?


:facepalm:

EaglesJackson10
02-08-2010, 11:21 PM
Wall has been very hyped, Rose wasnt as hyped early in the college basketball season as Wall was since pretty much the beginning of the season he has been the unanimous number one pick, it was not that way with Rose. But it might be because this years draft isn't that strong.

G-Bay New J
02-09-2010, 01:03 AM
Haha Terrence Williams was at a autographing event the other day and he signed some kids jersey "John Wall sucks" - Terrence Williams.

Might be interesting if they become team mates.

bchissie
02-09-2010, 01:17 AM
Wall is gonna be good, believe the hype

Wisdom Listens
02-09-2010, 01:28 AM
Most hyped up & overrated PG.. Ricky Rubio.

At least let him play in NBA before you call him overrated.

shep33
02-09-2010, 01:35 AM
Haha you know who is actually the most hyped PG ever? Sebastian Telfair!!! I remember when that guy was on magazine covers with LBJ, saying how at like 16 he was better than a lot of pg's. Does anybody else remember that? I still i think have that Slam Magazine with him and bron. That being said, Wall is pretty darn good, I actually don't know if he's better than Rose though, cause Derrick looks stronger physically. But who know's, he'll be in a Nets Jersey next year.

DerekRE_3
02-09-2010, 01:37 AM
Haha you know who is actually the most hyped PG ever? Sebastian Telfair!!! I remember when that guy was on magazine covers with LBJ, saying how at like 16 he was better than a lot of pg's. Does anybody else remember that? I still i think have that Slam Magazine with him and bron. That being said, Wall is pretty darn good, I actually don't know if he's better than Rose though, cause Derrick looks stronger physically. But who know's, he'll be in a Nets Jersey next year.

The Nets at best will have a 25% chance at the #1, so it's not a done deal by any means. That's how the draft lotto works.

icon1914
02-09-2010, 01:41 AM
Either the OP has a short memory or just started watching basketball.

Every year when there is a "sure thing" people get excited. It was that way with James, Duncan, Yao Ming, and even Blake.

If you are looking for a point guard to compare him to, maybe Iverson will do... I mean they were talking about Iverson since he was a freshman... and he was the first PG picked number One since Magic. Iverson had a shoe deal day one, and a commercial during draft night before the shoe was even finalized.

The NBA always gets excited about a player that looks like he come out of the gates ready to play and contribute. Wall is the latest in this cycle... but the hype surrounding him is nothing new. Rubio last year... or Derrick Rose to some extent the year before.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 01:41 AM
Wall already seems to be the most "controversial PG ever" how can you already be hating on him without even seeing him play a game in the NBA.

footballer2369
02-09-2010, 01:43 AM
magic johnson...

shep33
02-09-2010, 01:45 AM
The Nets at best will have a 25% chance at the #1, so it's not a done deal by any means. That's how the draft lotto works.

Yeah I know, they've got the best chance. They could be surprisingly good next year if they get him too. Say they sign like Joe Johnson and Amare too. They'd actually be a really decent team in the east, if they can somehow get really lucky. Amar'e said already that he's actually interested in the Nets, and Joe might leave, but i doubt it. Trade Harris if they get Wall too, so he's worth something out there. But yeah if they could get 2 stars and the number 1 pick=disgusting.

Wall
Joe Johnson
Amare
Lopez

On paper seems good, but again they gotta get extremely lucky.

icon1914
02-09-2010, 01:48 AM
Haha you know who is actually the most hyped PG ever? Sebastian Telfair!!! I remember when that guy was on magazine covers with LBJ, saying how at like 16 he was better than a lot of pg's. Does anybody else remember that? I still i think have that Slam Magazine with him and bron. That being said, Wall is pretty darn good, I actually don't know if he's better than Rose though, cause Derrick looks stronger physically. But who know's, he'll be in a Nets Jersey next year.

You do know that since 1985, the inception of the NBA lottery, the number one pick only went to the worse team 4 times... Being the worse gives you a better chance... but its still a lottery. Wall could end up in Utah (via the Knicks)... so who knows.

EDIT... just saw your earlier reply. Ignore this.

DerekRE_3
02-09-2010, 01:51 AM
You do know that since 1985, the inception of the NBA lottery, the number one pick only went to the worse team 4 times... Being the worse gives you a better chance... but its still a lottery. Wall could end up in Utah (via the Knicks)... so who knows.

EDIT... just saw your earlier reply. Ignore this.

Yep, last year the Kings got absolutely ****ed by the lottery. They got the worst pick possible at #4 (4 is the lowest the worst team can go). And thank god they did...it got us Tyreke.

Ovratd1up
02-09-2010, 01:56 AM
^As of right now, do you think you'd prefer Reke to Blake, putting injuries aside?

DerekRE_3
02-09-2010, 01:58 AM
^As of right now, do you think you'd prefer Reke to Blake, putting injuries aside?

No idea since Blake hasn't played a regular season game yet. I was hoping he would have come back this year to see how they measured up. The Kings do need a big man really really bad...but I'm still happy with Evans.

Dmagic87
02-09-2010, 01:59 AM
Yep, last year the Kings got absolutely ****ed by the lottery. They got the worst pick possible at #4 (4 is the lowest the worst team can go). And thank god they did...it got us Tyreke.

Can't believe Evans fell. He should have been the 2nd pick....

Can you imagine if memphis had Evans, OJ, and Gay... probably wouldn't work too well since 2 of them are ball handling stars.

DerekRE_3
02-09-2010, 02:01 AM
Can't believe Evans fell. He should have been the 2nd pick....

Can you imagine if memphis had Evans, OJ, and Gay... probably wouldn't work too well since 2 of them are ball handling stars.

Yeah that's why I can see why they passed on him. Rubio (Dunno if he would have come over or not had he gone #2 to Memphis) would have made sense as well. Someone needs to get those guys the ball where they want it.

Dmagic87
02-09-2010, 02:02 AM
Wall deserves the hype. Too many great minds... Calipari and Pat Riley for example have said he is the best college player since Wade.... Somehow people think he is going to be better than Durant and Melo.

Calipari said he far greater than Evans and Rose. To me he is Rose with better passing ability and jump shot. Rose is bigger though.

NJrockPD
02-09-2010, 02:03 AM
Telfair?

abe_froman
02-09-2010, 02:06 AM
naw still think iverson has that title,but wall is pretty close

COLH
02-09-2010, 02:12 AM
he reminds me of Iverson, and a little bit of Rose.

Dmagic87
02-09-2010, 02:13 AM
Iverson played 4 years of college. If he were getting this much hype there would be no way he stays in college. The man doesn't even want to practice let alone stay in college lol. Marbury had more hype IMO.

Public Enemy #1
02-09-2010, 02:22 AM
People are saying he is playing like a more polished Derrick Rose and Chris Paul. He is more explosive from what I've heard... I doubt it but you never know until he actually plays in the NBA.

bchissie
02-09-2010, 02:23 AM
Think of Derrick Rose, but with an actual jumper and can dish the ball like Rondo and Paul.

BCB mwat15
02-09-2010, 02:24 AM
Yeah...Wall is really hype(I think he's the real deal)
But, I'm on the Evan Turner bandwagon!! :up:

I can't wait for the 14th, Demetri McCamey ftw.

As for the thread, Rubio is probably the answer, there were people saying that he could be like Pistol Pete.

KG2TB
02-09-2010, 02:42 AM
I feel kind of bad for Wall. He's so hyped already if he doesn't come out of the gate and put up star stats people are gonna come down on him. Or if he does come out and put up good stats he'll still gonna get dogged because he's been so hyped it will be virtually impossible to live up to it. All the ignoramuses are gonna name this and that PG that they think are better...like that means he sucks or something. Just let the players play and play their game. I'm so sick of the comparisons and dogging on players because they get hyped, exposed, or talked about. Give it up.

nitric
02-09-2010, 02:50 AM
I feel kind of bad for Wall. He's so hyped already if he doesn't come out of the gate and put up star stats people are gonna come down on him. Or if he does come out and put up good stats he'll still gonna get dogged because he's been so hyped it will be virtually impossible to live up to it. All the ignoramuses are gonna name this and that PG that they think are better...like that means he sucks or something. Just let the players play and play their game. I'm so sick of the comparisons and dogging on players because they get hyped, exposed, or talked about. Give it up.

I'm expecting a 27/11 rookie season

Tha Truth
02-09-2010, 02:57 AM
Wall is getting a lot of hype.

Imagine next years rookie of the year race.

Blake Griffen and John Wall.

SirCalvin81
02-09-2010, 04:53 AM
hes the real deal though

Bullsfan22
02-09-2010, 05:34 AM
+1. Why would I care if John Wall is better than Rose on a mediocre team.



He is hyped a lot, but he is talented. Try to watch him play if you get the chance. If he goes to the nets, he can probably get 20 and 10 easily.

I watched him play three times and I was impressed one out of the three games. I like how he has the "IT" factor to him and I wish him well. But i reserve from buying into hype and i don't feel threatened that a player will be better than my favorite player that's childish and insecure. I'm a "show me person" and if he come out putting up 20 and 10 I'll be the first to hit up foot locker and rock a john wall jersey.

alencp3
02-09-2010, 09:31 AM
Wall is a beast. He will grew up in superstar for a year or two.

beardown78
02-09-2010, 09:55 AM
Yeah...Wall is really hype(I think he's the real deal)
But, I'm on the Evan Turner bandwagon!! :up:

I'm with you on the Evan Turner bandwagon, IMO 3 years from now Turner could end up being the best player taken outta this up coming draft

Lakersfanla24
02-09-2010, 09:59 AM
you think wall is good wait till the 2020 draft this kids gonna blow you away
:p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIqVvRh_cEY&NR=1

clferg75
02-09-2010, 10:01 AM
Jay Williams from Duke was thought to be one of the best PG to come out.
Then look what happened. He was subpar getting outplayed by Jamal Crawford night in and night out. Then the famous bike Ride. Go Figure. Wall looks great now lets not put him in the top 5 nba point guards yet

beardown78
02-09-2010, 10:05 AM
The man asked if Wall is the most over hyped PG. I simply answered the question. Rose is the most over hyped PG, not Wall.

Rose was no where nearly as hyped up coming out of college. rose wasnt even the sure fire number 1 pick on everyones draft board. Some teams had Beasly ahead of Rose so support you're statements before you ramble on. Wall is the sure fire hands down number 1 pick on everyones draft board and he's been hyped up since his senior year of highschool. Rose didnt have nearly as much hype coming out of highschool.

TheWatcher34
02-09-2010, 10:07 AM
the hype about Wall is pretty nasty, indeed. i haven't seen him play. to apply reason to the subject: the more extreme the hype is/gets the more likely Wall will turn out to be a disappointment.

Swashcuff
02-09-2010, 10:48 AM
Either the OP has a short memory or just started watching basketball.

Every year when there is a "sure thing" people get excited. It was that way with James, Duncan, Yao Ming, and even Blake.

If you are looking for a point guard to compare him to, maybe Iverson will do... I mean they were talking about Iverson since he was a freshman... and he was the first PG picked number One since Magic. Iverson had a shoe deal day one, and a commercial during draft night before the shoe was even finalized.

The NBA always gets excited about a player that looks like he come out of the gates ready to play and contribute. Wall is the latest in this cycle... but the hype surrounding him is nothing new. Rubio last year... or Derrick Rose to some extent the year before.

You must be kidding me right.

A.I. was never EVER any where near as hyped as John Wall is now. He was never seen as the saviour of a franchise like John Wall is. The reason he was so hyped was because he brought a different element to the game that was more or less unseen before him which was his quickness, toughness and tenacity. Hence the reason he was selected 1st (in what is one of the top 3 draft classes ever) but even so A.I. was not as coveted as John Wall is now so early in his collegiate career. A.I. was never a shoe in for #1 before he played his first game at college mainly because of the plethora of talent that year. John Wall on the other hand was. You say A.I. was hyped as a freshman well Iíve been hearing about Wall being the NEXT big thing before he even committed to Kentucky.

I believe if you said something like put that Iverson in this yearís class and heíll be every bit as hyped as Wall you would have made have defeated my point. IMO the supposed weakness of this yearís class has a little to do with it.

chin chukwu
02-09-2010, 11:22 AM
i think john wall is going to be a very good player, BUT as of right now, i think he is over-hyped/overrated. he turns the ball over a ton. he's better in the open court (fast pace game) than he is in a half-court set. he has the tools to be a good defender, but he just doesn't show it---he seems to take plays off (a lot like sherron collins).

nonetheless, i think he's going to be pretty good.

RadiantShot
02-09-2010, 11:39 AM
I've seen John Wall play, and he's really good.

There's always a 'But,' though.

I just feel like he's going to be a bust. I don't know why, don't ask me, but I feel a strange vibe that says he's WAY too overhyped.

Stunner
02-09-2010, 12:32 PM
people dont talke about how he turns the ball over to much and that he is facing inferior talent to his own. And it does help that his teammates are all top 20 recruits. If went to a school like Davidson and had those number of assist it would be a different story.

BADKNEES
02-09-2010, 12:43 PM
The most hyped was Magic and he turned out pretty good

The most OVER-hyped I can remember was telfair who actually had a movie made about his arrival to the league. Hows that workin out?

Wall is good and seems to have all the tools to translate to the league.

Draco
02-09-2010, 12:52 PM
As for all the D-Rose bashing/slurping. He's a bball player more than a point guard. Love his explosiveness and love his elusiveness in the open floor but he does not seem to excel in running a team. I have 1st hand personal knowledge that he's not a very smart human by the way and that may put a cap on his ability to understand running the team. But yes...he can ball.

I don't know what your standard is for running a team and it'd also be interesting to find out how you measured Rose's intelligence ("1st hand"). It's not as though Rose is still in college and an unknown to NBA critics. Most critics think he can run a team and that he's actually ahead of the curve in that respect.

arkanian215
02-09-2010, 12:55 PM
people dont talke about how he turns the ball over to much and that he is facing inferior talent to his own. And it does help that his teammates are all top 20 recruits. If went to a school like Davidson and had those number of assist it would be a different story.

yup those turnover numbers are huge. that's why i didn't like him at first. then i started watching his games and a lot of those turnovers are bad decisions. he often plays too fast. his handling and passing is pretty solid.

if he played for davidson, his numbers would be higher. he would face lesser competition year round and get to be the go to guy more often than he has been with kentucky.

davidson faced 3 borderline ranked teams this year.

NyCsPoRtS1
02-09-2010, 12:56 PM
marbury

AIMelo=KillaDUO
02-09-2010, 01:00 PM
Kenny Anderson was problley the most overhyped PG

ManRam
02-09-2010, 01:19 PM
I've yet to jump on the bandwagon. I think he's great and all, I just don't think he's THIS great. I've watched a lot of Kentucky games. He has a tremendous amount of talent, I'm just not convinced it translates into NBA super stardom.

CP3 The Great
02-09-2010, 01:20 PM
Think of Derrick Rose, but with an actual jumper and can dish the ball like Rondo and Paul.

i cant wait till' he goes to the nba rose is better closed discussion he cant hang w/ the big boys like rose did his rookie year and rose draft class was 10times better

irobson
02-09-2010, 01:35 PM
wall will make the wizards a playoff team next year...he's that good

Markg
02-09-2010, 01:41 PM
If there was no Beasley in the draft then Rose would have been more hyped than Wall is now.

And lets take a look at some of the "sure thing superstar" #1-3 picks of recent drafts:

Greg Oden (2007)
Adam Morrison (2006)
Darko Milicic (2003)
Kwami Brown (2001)

Granted none of these are guards..but guards until the last 5 years have rarely been taken 1-3 overall. (Rose, AI and Magic are only PGs to go 1st)

There are 3 main reasons why Wall is rated so highly:
A: Point guards are taking over the NBA and in the past several years teams have taken big men only to see the guard taken 2-5 explode as superstars (Wade, Paul, Williams, Roy - all taken after big men busts)
B: There isn't another precieved star in the draft. Wall is a full 4 points higher than the next top prospect (Turner) in this years draft according to nbadraft.net. All sports hype at least somoene in every year's draft as a next potential star...its how they draw interest for the upcoming season and keep fans watching games of woeful teams.
C: The soon-to-be Brooklyn Nets are most likely to get the first pick. Anytime a team in the NY-metro (or any huge media market) area has a chance at a #1 pick, you can bet your sig that a top prospect is going to be labeled a savior to the franchise that gets him. Like with B, its just smart business. If LA had the #1 pick in the draft, don't you think whoever was at the top of the board would be labeled a future hofer?

It also doesn't hurt that he's a good looking kid with a catchy, marketable name.

Lets not get things twisted here people - EVERY YEAR THERE ARE PLAYERS WHO THE BEST BASKETBALL MINDS IN THE WORLD CALL "THE NEXT BIG THING." You just have to wait for them to step on an NBA court before you can really make an assessment.

As for D-Rose, I don't think Bulls fans are worried about anything. By some inexplicable 1.7% miracle they landed the a hometown hero who has so far lived up to and even exceeded expecations on a team that pegged him Jordan 2.0 since day one. Its pretty much impossible to imagine how huge the lottery night was for Bulls fans. Go check the thread from that night...if you asked them to trade that #1 pick for an NBA championship the following year, they would have regected without thinking. Rose was the biggest savior to a franchise since LBJ, not only because of his skill, but beacuse of the luck it took to get him, his humble, hardworking atitude, and the fact that hes a Chicago native. If Wall does end up being better, it couldn't possibly be by much and I don't think Bulls fans would trade away one of their brethren anyway. I'd also venture to say that Rose has a more mature NBA mentality than Wall. Rose has a great supporting cast of family members watching his every move and making sure he's on the right track.

And I'm not sure why everyone here seems to think Wall is like Rose with a good jumpshot. I'm guessing most of you have never seen either of them play much. Rose's jumpshot is VERY underrated and will clearly improve with time as he has near perfect form. Wall's jumpshot is pretty much just as sketchy as Rose's out of college. Also like Rose, Wall really strugles when his team is not in transition. He's never had to run a half-court NBA style offense.

Now here's the really interesting question...If Rose and Wall were in the same draft - who would you take?

ManRam
02-09-2010, 01:44 PM
I can't believe I am saying this. OMG.

This is really tough...probably the hardest thing I've done all year...

Here it goes.

(Deep breath)


Rose>Wall

Yuck. I'm going to go throw up now.

Stunner
02-09-2010, 01:50 PM
I can't believe I am saying this. OMG.

This is really tough...probably the hardest thing I've done all year...

Here it goes.

(Deep breath)


Rose>Wall

Yuck. I'm going to go throw up now.

its gonna be ok your not gonna die bro lmao

Wilson
02-09-2010, 01:52 PM
OK guys, discussing Wall in comparison to other hyped PGs in the past (such as Magic, Telfair and Rose) is absolutely fine. However, I'm not tolerating any personal attacks on Bulls fans and baiting them into a fight about Rose. Discuss the subject respectfully please.

BADKNEES
02-09-2010, 03:11 PM
I don't know what your standard is for running a team and it'd also be interesting to find out how you measured Rose's intelligence ("1st hand"). It's not as though Rose is still in college and an unknown to NBA critics. Most critics think he can run a team and that he's actually ahead of the curve in that respect.

I believe that to run an NBA team as a true point guard you should be a "coach on the floor". For this you will need good natural intelligence and common sense as well as the ability to make good decisions under stress and duress. All NBA players should have these qualities but they are especially important to be a quality point guard. It's hard to name many all-star quality point guards that were not fairly intelligent. There are some but not many. In order to be a great point you have to understand THE game not just YOUR part in the game.

As for my my personal experience, I have 17 years experience of working with the NBA and it's players. My job puts me in direct contact with players, coaches, analysts and writers allowing me a unique perspective than an average fan. I say this not to brag, but to answer your question and provide a bit of perspective. I interact directly with the players on a daily basis and get to know them yes...personally.

"Most critics think he can run a team and that he's actually ahead of the curve in that respect"

Not so sure about that. Seems most critics believe he is a great basketball player bull of potential but not sure if he cracks the top 5 when it comes to point guards they'd like to have running their team. He has so much to learn about how to be that "coach" on the floor and make players around him play better. And in order to learn you must have the capacity to do so. I question his capacity.

ShockerArt
02-09-2010, 03:37 PM
Kenny Anderson was problley the most overhyped PG

That's the first guy that I thought of, too. He had all kinds of hype coming into Georgia Tech.

Draco
02-09-2010, 04:22 PM
I believe that to run an NBA team as a true point guard you should be a "coach on the floor". For this you will need good natural intelligence and common sense as well as the ability to make good decisions under stress and duress. All NBA players should have these qualities but they are especially important to be a quality point guard. It's hard to name many all-star quality point guards that were not fairly intelligent. There are some but not many. In order to be a great point you have to understand THE game not just YOUR part in the game.

Sure, I'd agree with most of that except I think it'd be hard to name many rookie PGs with one year of college experience who were given starter minuntes and an Allstar spot (coach's decision, not the fans) in their second year.



As for my my personal experience, I have 17 years experience of working with the NBA and it's players. My job puts me in direct contact with players, coaches, analysts and writers allowing me a unique perspective than an average fan. I say this not to brag, but to answer your question and provide a bit of perspective. I interact directly with the players on a daily basis and get to know them yes...personally.

Unless you're working for the Chicago Bulls I doubt you're interacting directly with Derrick Rose on a daily basis. If I were to give you the benefit of the doubt you haven't explained how you're measuring Rose's intelligence or what you mean by Rose is "not a very smart human"



"Most critics think he can run a team and that he's actually ahead of the curve in that respect"

Not so sure about that. Seems most critics believe he is a great basketball player bull of potential but not sure if he cracks the top 5 when it comes to point guards they'd like to have running their team. He has so much to learn about how to be that "coach" on the floor and make players around him play better. And in order to learn you must have the capacity to do so. I question his capacity.

I thought we were talking about a PG being able to run a team and not necessarily about cracking the top 5? I agree with you about Rose having a lot to learn which I thought most anyone would expect from a second year PG. Chauncey Billups didn't get the hang of it until well into his career. Ty Lawon is doing pretty well as a rookie but he also had 4 years of college under his belt and he's playing behind Billups. If you think Rose is under performing as a floor leader then I'd like to read some examples of PGs with a background similar to Rose and who are doing better.

bchissie
02-09-2010, 04:38 PM
i cant wait till' he goes to the nba rose is better closed discussion he cant hang w/ the big boys like rose did his rookie year and rose draft class was 10times better

haha you're trippin. even his own coach said he's better than rose and tyreke evans. rose is good, but he's not great. he needs to work on his jumper and defense. and even after that rose will never be the passer that wall is.

BADKNEES
02-09-2010, 07:17 PM
Sure, I'd agree with most of that except I think it'd be hard to name many rookie PGs with one year of college experience who were given starter minuntes and an Allstar spot (coach's decision, not the fans) in their second year.



Unless you're working for the Chicago Bulls I doubt you're interacting directly with Derrick Rose on a daily basis. If I were to give you the benefit of the doubt you haven't explained how you're measuring Rose's intelligence or what you mean by Rose is "not a very smart human"



I thought we were talking about a PG being able to run a team and not necessarily about cracking the top 5? I agree with you about Rose having a lot to learn which I thought most anyone would expect from a second year PG. Chauncey Billups didn't get the hang of it until well into his career. Ty Lawon is doing pretty well as a rookie but he also had 4 years of college under his belt and he's playing behind Billups. If you think Rose is under performing as a floor leader then I'd like to read some examples of PGs with a background similar to Rose and who are doing better.

All I'm saying is he's got a world of potential, and right now he's not an ideal point guard that distributes, scores and makes rock solid decisions. I didn't realize you were basing evaluation of his skill within the parameters of players with similar backgrounds. Penny or Steph marbury? Marbury may be the best comparison. In his 2nd year he went for 17.7ppg and 8.6 apg. People thought Steph would develop into an outstanding pg but it never quite happenned for him. He put up big #s but couldn't get the "floor general" concept. And Ty Lawson would develop quicker if he wasn't playing behind Chauncey. In my eyes he plays like a point guard. Brandon Jennings has similar #s to Rose and to me has potential to be a better point than rose bc he has a more solid perimeter shot and relies less on athletic ability and more on skill.

Trying to compare him to current point guards with only 1 year of college thrust into starting roles does not give a large pool to choose from. Point guards are usually smart enough to stay in school for a few years. I think we're both agreeing that he is a great player but lets not get it twisted. He's not a true point...at this point. He may become one.

And you're right... I don't interact with him everyday but I don't think that is a requirement for assessing someone's aptitude. I'm around him enough and talk to enough people in the organization and the league to know the deal. Seem odd to you that he failed the ACT 3 times and then finally scored 800 on the SAT which just happens to be the score you need to compete in college. (don't get into the culturally biased crap either please) There are lots of dim light bulbs in the league so it's not a huge deal and if he turns out to be a great point guard despite his "limitations" then it's a credit to him. He is a nice kid and exciting to watch.

Draco
02-10-2010, 01:02 AM
All I'm saying is he's got a world of potential, and right now he's not an ideal point guard that distributes, scores and makes rock solid decisions. I didn't realize you were basing evaluation of his skill within the parameters of players with similar backgrounds.

I think number of years spent playing college ball matters when it comes PGs developing floor leadership.


Penny or Steph marbury? Marbury may be the best comparison. In his 2nd year he went for 17.7ppg and 8.6 apg. People thought Steph would develop into an outstanding pg but it never quite happenned for him. He put up big #s but couldn't get the "floor general" concept. And Ty Lawson would develop quicker if he wasn't playing behind Chauncey. In my eyes he plays like a point guard.

Steph? You're talking about the guy who posted a youtube clip of himself eating vaseline. There's probably more going on with Steph than anything a metric for intelligences would uncover. I haven't followed his career very closely. Was Steph coachable? I thought he left Minnesota on bad terms. I don't see the comparison to Rose.

What makes you think Lawson isn't benefiting by having a mentor/student relationship with Billups?


Brandon Jennings has similar #s to Rose and to me has potential to be a better point than rose bc he has a more solid perimeter shot and relies less on athletic ability and more on skill.

I'm missing a lot of games this season and I'll have to catch up on watching players like Lawson and Jennings next season. Still, I'm looking at Jennings' stats and they read 37.7 FG%.



Trying to compare him to current point guards with only 1 year of college thrust into starting roles does not give a large pool to choose from. Point guards are usually smart enough to stay in school for a few years. I think we're both agreeing that he is a great player but lets not get it twisted. He's not a true point...at this point. He may become one.

College players who know they're going #1 or #2 in the NBA draft have a huge monetary incentive to enter the draft.

I have read some criticism about Rose's decision making (Charley Rosen comes to mind) but I really don't believe this has anything to do with intelligence or ACT scores.



And you're right... I don't interact with him everyday but I don't think that is a requirement for assessing someone's aptitude. I'm around him enough and talk to enough people in the organization and the league to know the deal. Seem odd to you that he failed the ACT 3 times and then finally scored 800 on the SAT which just happens to be the score you need to compete in college. (don't get into the culturally biased crap either please) There are lots of dim light bulbs in the league so it's not a huge deal and if he turns out to be a great point guard despite his "limitations" then it's a credit to him. He is a nice kid and exciting to watch.

The ACT isn't designed to predict successful floor leadership. Why would you think it does that? I could buy the scenario in which the high school PG possessing average or even below intelligence gets a high score due to good study habits, a solid education and parental support. In this scenario, these study habits prepare the high school PG for the challenges of learning the more "cerebral" aspects of being an NBA PG... But I don't think this means that players with high ACT scores are the only players on track to be "true point guards". Rose might have some catching up to do. I know that Rose impressed Paxson with his skill and aptitude to change Paxson's mind about bringing him off the bench his rookie season

JJ_JKidd
02-10-2010, 04:29 AM
Has there ever been a point guard coming out of college that has been this hyped? He has more or less already been anointed as the saviour to any franchise that drafts him. From what I have seen he is really really good. But is he that great? Some posters have even said that he is a going top 5 point guard next season. I understand he possesses the intangibles and the unteachables that only a select few a blessed with but I have not seen much of the games he's played.........

So could someone(s) please enlighten me as to why the kid is so hyped.

I also need enlightenment :confused:


Most hyped up & overrated PG.. Ricky Rubio.

OVERRATED in its human form (drums) (drums) (drums) Ricky Rubio

BADKNEES
02-10-2010, 01:09 PM
I think number of years spent playing college ball matters when it comes PGs developing floor leadership.

Agreed that's why PGs often stay in school to develop.

Steph? You're talking about the guy who posted a youtube clip of himself eating vaseline. There's probably more going on with Steph than anything a metric for intelligences would uncover. I haven't followed his career very closely. Was Steph coachable? I thought he left Minnesota on bad terms. I don't see the comparison to Rose.

I believe you asked about other point guards that were in school for a year and asked to play starters minutes and contribute. Steph did all that before he lost his mind. He put up #s and teamed w/Garnett to make a dynamic duo. the rest is history. He was not coachable and as I said didn't get the "floor general" role.

What makes you think Lawson isn't benefiting by having a mentor/student relationship with Billups?

I just don't think Lawson's game is similar to Chauncey's so he may pick up some things by watching him but I believe the best way to develop is to have the ball in your hands and "learn by doing". Lawson's quickness based game doesn't relate to Chauncey's power guard game. I don't think Ty is going to pick up how to be a power guard. Minutes make a player better. PERIOD

I'm missing a lot of games this season and I'll have to catch up on watching players like Lawson and Jennings next season. Still, I'm looking at Jennings' stats and they read 37.7 FG%.

Yes Jennings percentage has fallen dramatically from the first couple months of the season. He's struggling w/some shot selection issues but you should try to catch some of his games. He comes across as more of a PG than Rose. He also has a way to go but he's special.


College players who know they're going #1 or #2 in the NBA draft have a huge monetary incentive to enter the draft.

Yes they do. But how many PGs have gone 1 in the past 30 yrs? Iverson and Rose are the only ones. ..this is because coaches/gms know that it takes time to develop the skill and they don't want to invest that kind of money and have a guy sit on the bench to be tutored by a veteran PG for 3 years and then opt out.

I have read some criticism about Rose's decision making (Charley Rosen comes to mind) but I really don't believe this has anything to do with intelligence or ACT scores.

Do you find it odd that he couldn't pass these tests and was able to get the necessary 800 on the SAT?
Culturally biased tests? Product of his environment? parental support? study habits? blah. At the end of the day are you telling me you've never met someone or spent time with a friend and said to yourself "this guy is not the sharpest knife in the drawer". His bulb is dim. You really don't need test scores or sociological studies to get a read on a person. Perhaps saying he isn't a "smart human" was politically incorrect. He doesn't come across as a very bright guy. Nice guy-yes. Bright guy-no. IMO he is not a natural point guard. He is an incredible athlete with a world of potential. He has a terrible jumpshot. Worse than Rondo I think. His freakish physical skills make up for so much that we forget about his B- handle D jumper and C floor leadership. He doesn't have much around him and that doesn't help his case. And as for Paxson's GM skills, he hasn't proven to me that we should trust his judgment but that's a whole other thread.

i get it...you're a big Rose fan and so am I. I just don't think I'd like to have him running my team unless Nash, Paul, Williams, Harris, Rondo, Jennings, Parker or Billups were all unavailable.



The ACT isn't designed to predict successful floor leadership. Bringing up the ACT was show is inability to achieve on a standardized test. Failing isn't bad but 3x is more than a product of environment. Why would you think it does that? I could buy the scenario in which the high school PG possessing average or even below intelligence gets a high score due to good study habits, a solid education and parental support. In this scenario, these study habits prepare the high school PG for the challenges of learning the more "cerebral" aspects of being an NBA PG... But I don't think this means that players with high ACT scores are the only players on track to be "true point guards". Rose might have some catching up to do. I know that Rose impressed Paxson with his skill and aptitude to change Paxson's mind about bringing him off the bench his rookie season

hmmmm

The_Pharouh
02-10-2010, 03:01 PM
Most hyped up & overrated PG.. Ricky Rubio.

No,he wasn't considered the best player in the draft and actually it was considered that there is huge drop between the No1 pick and any other prospect in the draft ,His shooting was questioned ,his defense was somehow questioned (he is a gr8 defender) ,half of NBA fans called him a bust
How can a guy be so critesized and his potential questioned like that and called the most hyped?
is anybody questions or doubting Wall?NO ,is anybody questions or doubting Rubio?Yes