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Lo Porto
02-08-2010, 10:06 AM
The Saints just won the Super Bowl.

To compare to other leagues, the Saints would be the Clippers, Royals, Bucks, Pirates, or Warriors. The great thing about the NFL is that any team could make a rise and play for it all. Look at the last 2 years - the Saints and Cardinals in the Super Bowl? Amazing. Those two teams have been doormats for years.

That type of stuff just doesn't happen in the NBA. The stars and power teams overwhelmingly control the outcome of games and the league. I really hope that the new collective bargaining agreement will create a more balanced level of competition allowing there to be 8-10 good teams instead of the 2 or 3 we see now.

For the record, I'm a huge NBA fan too, but I just wish there was more parody.

RadiantShot
02-08-2010, 10:40 AM
This is the NBA section, Just letting you know.

ShockerArt
02-08-2010, 10:50 AM
The NBA is a player-dominated league. If you don't have the best players, you can't win. The NFL is a coaching-dominated league. With similar or even slightly inferior talent, a better-coached team can still win. It's much more difficult to achieve parity in the NBA. In a free-flowing game with only 10 participants at a time, having 1 or 2 dominant players makes such a difference.

avrpatsfan
02-08-2010, 10:50 AM
The Saints just won the Super Bowl.

To compare to other leagues, the Saints would be the Clippers, Royals, Bucks, Pirates, or Warriors. The great thing about the NFL is that any team could make a rise and play for it all. Look at the last 2 years - the Saints and Cardinals in the Super Bowl? Amazing. Those two teams have been doormats for years.

That type of stuff just doesn't happen in the NBA. The stars and power teams overwhelmingly control the outcome of games and the league. I really hope that the new collective bargaining agreement will create a more balanced level of competition allowing there to be 8-10 good teams instead of the 2 or 3 we see now.

For the record, I'm a huge NBA fan too, but I just wish there was more parody.

2 or 3 good teams? How about the Magic, the Cavs, the Celtics, the Hawks, the Nuggets, the Mavs, the Thunder, the Lakers, Toronto, Utah, Portland, Phoenix, and San Antonio. All of these teams have a good chance to beat each other. Only in the NBA over half of the teams have a shot at winning the championship.

madiaz3
02-08-2010, 11:22 AM
I agree that it's pretty obvious that both the season and format of the playoffs really is designed to limit upsets and make sure the best team truly does win, especially since all round series shifted to best of seven.

82 game season makes it just as hard for teams to get lucky seeding they don't "deserve" while any 5 game win streak in the regular season of the NFL greatly impacts your entire season.

Then again, all of these conditions so make upsets so much sweeter...(Warriors/Mavs)

king4day
02-08-2010, 11:34 AM
2 or 3 good teams? How about the Magic, the Cavs, the Celtics, the Hawks, the Nuggets, the Mavs, the Thunder, the Lakers, Toronto, Utah, Portland, Phoenix, and San Antonio. All of these teams have a good chance to beat each other. Only in the NBA over half of the teams have a shot at winning the championship.

I think he means, in the NFL, at the beginning of any season, a new team can rise (see Falcon/Dolphins from a couple years ago).

And of the teams you mentioned, only the Lakers, Cavs, Magic, Celtics, and maybe Denver are true title threats.
The Mavs, Thunder, Hawks, Raps, Jazz, Blazers, Suns and Spurs won't come close to sniffing a ring.

Blackjack24
02-08-2010, 11:36 AM
As to the length of season and series causing this, exactly right. Up to a few years ago, the NBA has a best of 5 first round. There was a lot more tension and drama, because a higher seed losing its first home game really didn't have much time to make it up. When they switched to a best of 7, it took that away to a large degree. Best of 7's all but assure that the better team will advance. Horrendously long regular seasons all but assure teams getting seeded appropriately. Ergo... the NBA playoffs are often dull and predictable, without the magic of sudden death playoffs like the NFL and March Madness.

king4day
02-08-2010, 11:37 AM
The Saints just won the Super Bowl.

To compare to other leagues, the Saints would be the Clippers, Royals, Bucks, Pirates, or Warriors. The great thing about the NFL is that any team could make a rise and play for it all. Look at the last 2 years - the Saints and Cardinals in the Super Bowl? Amazing. Those two teams have been doormats for years.

That type of stuff just doesn't happen in the NBA. The stars and power teams overwhelmingly control the outcome of games and the league. I really hope that the new collective bargaining agreement will create a more balanced level of competition allowing there to be 8-10 good teams instead of the 2 or 3 we see now.

For the record, I'm a huge NBA fan too, but I just wish there was more parody.

I think in basketball, they need to do one of the following:

1. Shorten contract lengths to 3 years max
2. Raise the salary cap greatly (this wouldn't work but would allow teams to have a buffer on mistake contracts like Arenas or Brand)
3. Give teams the option, like the NFL, to cut a player who doesn't perform.

#1Mavericksfan
02-08-2010, 11:40 AM
I think he means, in the NFL, at the beginning of any season, a new team can rise (see Falcon/Dolphins from a couple years ago).

And of the teams you mentioned, only the Lakers, Cavs, Magic, Celtics, and maybe Denver are true title threats.

The Mavs, Thunder, Hawks, Raps, Jazz, Blazers, Suns and Spurs won't come close to sniffing a ring.

Explain to me how both thoes team are true title threats?.....

blacknell
02-08-2010, 11:45 AM
i just think the NBA is rigged look at teams like the lakers for perfect example when you can always get something for nothing and you can always guess who will be in the finals

#1Mavericksfan
02-08-2010, 11:50 AM
No small market team will ever win the NBA as long as Stern is in power, as a matter of fact I don't think any small market team won the NBA since Stern has been in power.

Lo Porto
02-08-2010, 11:58 AM
I think he means, in the NFL, at the beginning of any season, a new team can rise (see Falcon/Dolphins from a couple years ago).

And of the teams you mentioned, only the Lakers, Cavs, Magic, Celtics, and maybe Denver are true title threats.
The Mavs, Thunder, Hawks, Raps, Jazz, Blazers, Suns and Spurs won't come close to sniffing a ring.

Thank you King. That's what I meant. Really, there is over a 50% chance that the Lakers repeat this year. And there really is only 1 team that could beat them in a 7 game series but LeBron would have to be unreal to do it.

I am an NBA fan, but I wish that lower level teams had a better shot. 7 game series don't set up for cinderella stories.

HoopsDrive
02-08-2010, 12:10 PM
Never liked underdogs. Let the best teams go to the final game and see who can get the coveted prize. Why would I want a team with the CURRENT TALENT of the Clippers, Wolves, Nets (and so on) to get in to the playoffs, let alone win a championship? They don't deserve to, their teams are horrible.

You know why I prefer the NBA over the NFL? Because an 82-game regular season game and 4, 7-game playoff series to win the championship make the odds that an underdog team wins it all very low. I love it. That's how you only see the best team win it over, and over, and over again. Because the NBA is done in such a manner that only the best of the best have a true shot to win it all.

And that's how I always want it to be. The best against the best. No underdogs.

Giantwarrior
02-08-2010, 12:11 PM
The Saints just won the Super Bowl.

To compare to other leagues, the Saints would be the Clippers, Royals, Bucks, Pirates, or Warriors. The great thing about the NFL is that any team could make a rise and play for it all. Look at the last 2 years - the Saints and Cardinals in the Super Bowl? Amazing. Those two teams have been doormats for years.

That type of stuff just doesn't happen in the NBA. The stars and power teams overwhelmingly control the outcome of games and the league. I really hope that the new collective bargaining agreement will create a more balanced level of competition allowing there to be 8-10 good teams instead of the 2 or 3 we see now.

For the record, I'm a huge NBA fan too, but I just wish there was more parody.


you're crazy. think about the MLB, they have no salary cap! but once in awhile you have a florida marlins or chicago white sox team win. but that will never happen in the NBA.

its pretty fair in the NBA, i think you will have to fault owners and management on this, but it really is a talent driven league and it all starts in the draft. The spurs were REALLY BAD until they had two #1 picks, David Robinson and Tim Duncan. One player can change the entire outlook of your team.

Raph12
02-08-2010, 12:18 PM
That's the difference between the NBA and NFL, in a best-of-7 series, the Saints would get whooped... But I guess that's a good way to keep it fresh.

Lo Porto
02-08-2010, 02:07 PM
If the NBA had it so figured out, then why are they so behind the NFL in every way? And look at how the NCAA March Madness is watched so much more than the NBA playoffs.

The NBA might have it set up where the best team usually wins, but that gets boring and predictable. And consider the finances. Luxury paying teams win a vast majority of the games AND titles. Practically every team is over the "salary cap". Imagine if those rules were more rigid. Imagine if the Lakers had to sacrifice Odom last summer because they couldn't afford to keep him. There would be so much more parody which it makes the product more entertaining.

Raoul Duke
02-08-2010, 02:32 PM
Part of what makes the NFL playoffs the most exciting in sports is that it's a single-elimination set-up. You don't don't really have to be the best team in the NFL to win a Superbowl, you just have play better in your games.

Having a best-of-seven series decide who wins pretty much eliminates luck as a factor. Certainly not as exciting, but way more definitive.

I don't think you can ever have the same kind of parity in the NBA that you have in the NFL. The entire landscape is different. NFL teams have much bigger rosters, and the NFL draft goes on for days with rotation players being taken into the last rounds. The NBA draft is two rounds and typically the best players at every position are gone by the 15th pick.


If the NBA had it so figured out, then why are they so behind the NFL in every way? And look at how the NCAA March Madness is watched so much more than the NBA playoffs.

I agree completely. I'd love to see big sweeping changes like cutting four teams out of each conference, reducing the number of games to around 60 or 65, letting less teams into the playoffs, doing a best-of-five series for everything except the finals, etc etc etc. The talent pool would be a lot less diluted then, and there'd probably be fewer injuries, plus the important games would be more meaningful. But it'll never happen.

Lo Porto
02-08-2010, 03:20 PM
Good points Raoul. I'd love for the NBA to cut a couple teams. I've seen so many big names in the last couple years (Jerry West here recently) say that there are a bunch of really terrible players currently in the NBA. If each conference just got rid of one team and each playoff series was best of 5, people would watch more. Losing game 1 or 2 in a best of 7 doesn't mean anything. Lose game 1 or 2 in a best of 5, and you've got a higher seed getting nervous.

There is too much money made by best of 7 series so that won't ever change unfortunately. As for the teams getting cut to improve talent, that could happen if the economy keeps draining all these teams and owners.

HoopsDrive
02-08-2010, 03:24 PM
If the NBA had it so figured out, then why are they so behind the NFL in every way? And look at how the NCAA March Madness is watched so much more than the NBA playoffs.

The NBA might have it set up where the best team usually wins, but that gets boring and predictable. And consider the finances. Luxury paying teams win a vast majority of the games AND titles. Practically every team is over the "salary cap". Imagine if those rules were more rigid. Imagine if the Lakers had to sacrifice Odom last summer because they couldn't afford to keep him. There would be so much more parody which it makes the product more entertaining.

Where did you get this info from? Maybe in the US, the NCAA March Madness is more watched but if you count worldwide viewership, the NBA Playoffs will be ahead of the former by a mile.

Luck is a factor in any sport in the world but should always be minimized and not be a primary factor for reward. The NBA has a system in place where only the real best teams in the league have a realistic chance at the coveted championship. A few other teams might have aspirations but usually it comes down to 2-4 teams wrestling for the trophy. To me, this is how it should always be in sports.

Besides, I never got the "excitement" part of watching underdogs in the finals of any sport. Would you be more excited to see a Charlotte Bobcats vs. Houston Rockets finals than a Cleveland Cavaliers vs LA Lakers one?

(Note: nothing against any of the teams mentioned, just using them as reference based on their overall ability)

RaiderLakersA's
02-08-2010, 03:34 PM
That's the difference between the NBA and NFL, in a best-of-7 series, the Saints would get whooped... But I guess that's a good way to keep it fresh.

In a best of 7 series, there wouldn't be any football players left on the field by the 4th game, except maybe the kickers and punters. A full contact sport means injuries all over the joint!

But you make a good point. You can't compare parity in the NFL versus parity in the NBA, simply because in the NBA the cream is always supposed to rise to the top. The long season and the long playoff format almost ensures it.

Shorten the NBA season to 16 games and a playoff format similar to the NFL and then try to predict who wins the title every year. My guess is that you'd have lots of different champions, too, because every team would truly have a viable chance to recover from an early loss. And for those teams that aren't on the same page early in the season -- as is the case with even championship teams -- that would present an opportunity for a team like, say, the Mavs or Phoenix, who usually have continuuity down pat early in the year.

Further, while boxing may be considered the "sweet science", there is something to be said about the complexity of the NFL. In the NBA you can get wins from sheer athleticism alone. In the NFL? You need that to a lesser extent, but you need a strategy ("play book") and chemistry that trumps all others in order to win. And then you have to have a little luck. We all know how predictable the round ball bounces.

ink
02-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Besides, I never got the "excitement" part of watching underdogs in the finals of any sport. Would you be more excited to see a Charlotte Bobcats vs. Houston Rockets finals than a Cleveland Cavaliers vs LA Lakers one?

Good point. Yesterday's game was a classic but there have been a lot of brutal Super Bowls (especially in the 90s), so the NFL isn't that perfect.

SteveNash
02-08-2010, 04:03 PM
So the Saints have been garbage for most of the past 43 years but finally when 1 whole Super Bowl and now it's the the NBA that needs to copy the NFL?

NFL has the least amount of parity of all major sports.

Lo Porto
02-08-2010, 04:09 PM
The NFL isn't perfect, but they have a much better product.

The NBA would make huge advances into tapping into that success if they cut two franchises (how about combine Sacramento with GS and Philly with NJ). Getting rid of 25-30 players would be good for the NBA, and I'm not saying that those players would come from just those 4 teams. Regionally, those franchises could combine.

Then make every playoff series best of 5 instead of best of 7. Every game would be worth more. The cream still rises to the top, but there is still a chance for the cinderella story. And cinderella stories are great for business.

Lo Porto
02-08-2010, 04:12 PM
NFL has the least amount of parity of all major sports.

Good point. That's why two franchises in the last two years have been to the Super Bowl yet had the worst histories of any in league history. When was the last time you saw a .500 NBA team win the finals the next season? When have you ever even seen a .500 NBA team go to the Finals the next season?

Once again, good point.

SteveNash
02-08-2010, 04:18 PM
The NFL isn't perfect, but they have a much better product.

The NBA would make huge advances into tapping into that success if they cut two franchises (how about combine Sacramento with GS and Philly with NJ). Getting rid of 25-30 players would be good for the NBA, and I'm not saying that those players would come from just those 4 teams. Regionally, those franchises could combine.

Then make every playoff series best of 5 instead of best of 7. Every game would be worth more. The cream still rises to the top, but there is still a chance for the cinderella story. And cinderella stories are great for business.

If that was such a great idea, why doesn't the NFL eliminate 2 teams.

Combine Detroit and Cleveland. St Louis and Kansas City. Then make the playoffs so only 4 teams from each conference gets in making games worth more.

MaHaRaJaH
02-08-2010, 04:20 PM
No small market team will ever win the NBA as long as Stern is in power, as a matter of fact I don't think any small market team won the NBA since Stern has been in power.

And you're right! However, "Smaller" market teams have made it to the finals. But during his Reign, A lot of good repeating champions came and went. (Bulls, Lakers, and Spurs) that's 17 Champions between those 3 alone.

SteveNash
02-08-2010, 04:20 PM
Good point. That's why two franchises in the last two years have been to the Super Bowl yet had the worst histories of any in league history. When was the last time you saw a .500 NBA team win the finals the next season? When have you ever even seen a .500 NBA team go to the Finals the next season?

Once again, good point.

2 years ago when the Celtics who were 24-58, under 30% win a championship the very next year.

JordansBulls
02-08-2010, 04:20 PM
The Saints just won the Super Bowl.

To compare to other leagues, the Saints would be the Clippers, Royals, Bucks, Pirates, or Warriors. The great thing about the NFL is that any team could make a rise and play for it all. Look at the last 2 years - the Saints and Cardinals in the Super Bowl? Amazing. Those two teams have been doormats for years.

That type of stuff just doesn't happen in the NBA. The stars and power teams overwhelmingly control the outcome of games and the league. I really hope that the new collective bargaining agreement will create a more balanced level of competition allowing there to be 8-10 good teams instead of the 2 or 3 we see now.

For the record, I'm a huge NBA fan too, but I just wish there was more parody.


Well the Bulls were like until they got MJ. We hadn't accomplished anything. The Spurs were like that until they got Duncan. Rockets were like that until they got Hakeem.

JordansBulls
02-08-2010, 04:24 PM
Also in the NFL you play 16 games. 8 of them against 4 teams in your division and 8 total against the rest of the league. Basically you play 12 teams a year out of 31 other teams that you can play. How can you say you were the best and didn't even play half the teams? And then if you had a top 2 record, you get the 1st round off.

dev0
02-08-2010, 04:24 PM
the teams that are bad haven't always been bad, and the teams that are good haven't always been that way either... there is just a longer turnover from top of the league to bottom and the process takes longer. Teams that are good should be able to create and maintain a dynasty for a few years. The real "parody" is your comment

Atticus Finch
02-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Good point. That's why two franchises in the last two years have been to the Super Bowl yet had the worst histories of any in league history. When was the last time you saw a .500 NBA team win the finals the next season? When have you ever even seen a .500 NBA team go to the Finals the next season?

Once again, good point.

In 2006/2007 the Celtics won 24 games. The next year they won 66 games and the championship. That year they played the Lakers, who were 42-40 the year before

twoearl
02-08-2010, 04:37 PM
Great post. Yes I am a HUGE NBA & NFL fan. But i agree. The NBA can be very boring at times. Same teams, same players year after year. Anyone with half a brain knows that barring injury LA will win it this year. Knowing the outcome of something does not generate excitment.

I also agree with the rest of you the nba needs to cut the playoffs to 5 games and also cut about two to three teams from each conference. And make the cap lower.

OrderOfCook
02-08-2010, 04:39 PM
That's the difference between the NBA and NFL, in a best-of-7 series, the Saints would get whooped... But I guess that's a good way to keep it fresh.

This. If the NBA had one and done playoffs, any team could win.

RadiantShot
02-08-2010, 05:12 PM
Explain to me how both thoes team are true title threats?.....

Explain to me how they're not...

HoopsDrive
02-08-2010, 05:38 PM
The ability of the team should decide whether or not they go deep into the playoffs and win it all and NOT the system or some amount of luck.

The NBA system is fine as it is in terms of getting the cream of the crop to rise at the end of the season. This is how it should be in every sport. The best teams, no matter who they are, should be the ones going deep in the playoffs and ultimately, winning it all.

Why make a system that increases the chance for mediocre teams to have a chance of winning it all? The NBA is already giving mediocre teams a chance by allowing 8 teams in each conference to go to the playoffs and we all know that only 2-4 teams in the whole league have a real shot at making it to the finals.

Tell me again how a finals between Charlotte Bobcats and Houston Rockets is more exciting than a finals between Cleveland Cavaliers and LA Lakers.

Chronz
02-08-2010, 05:41 PM
Yup, this is why we shouldnt expect stars to win rings to prove their worth, the truest test of a players worth is in the regular season and how far he takes his talent base come post season.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
02-08-2010, 05:42 PM
Explain to me how both thoes team are true title threats?.....

Uhh..

-Celtics were the Champs 2 years ago...
-Magic lost in the Finals last year...

Tell me how they're not title threats

Vee-Rex
02-08-2010, 06:02 PM
Eh, the NBA is good for what it is and the NFL is good for what it is. I love both sports but watching an NBA game is more exciting to me for the following reasons:

1. More fast paced. Action is back and forth, back and forth. Shot clock and wild hustling makes things more hectic in the NBA than in the NFL.

2. More competitive. You actually get to see Superstars, people who get consideration as the G.O.A.T. go head to head. You don't see Peyton Manning and Drew Brees tackling each other. You don't see Chad Johnson and Randy Moss covering each other.

However, in the NBA you get everything right in your face. LBJ vs. Wade. Kobe vs. Melo.

3. Clutch situations. NBA has far more of these than the NFL. There are way more last second shots/buzzer beaters in the NBA than there are last second plays in the NFL. Triple overtime Celtics vs. Bulls in the playoffs last year was way more exciting than any other NFL game this entire year IMO.

NFL leaves little room for mistake (one turnover is enormous) whereas you can still make mistakes yet stay in good shape in the NBA.

I like the way both sports are setup (in terms of luckiness vs. boringness) and think they should stay that way. You can get more lucky in the NFL but the NBA leaves little room for it. Keep them just as they are.

NFL has a lot more exciting things than the NBA too but I don't feel like naming them.

j37hr0
02-08-2010, 07:27 PM
The Celtics aren't a serious contender. Garnett has too many minutes on those knees. I hope the championship Ainge bought for Boston was worth it.

I like Orlando's chances. I know Cleveland is good, but I don't think they are a lock from the East.

And San Antonio is a small market team.

heathonater
02-08-2010, 10:36 PM
the nba playoffs have less upsets than the nfl due to the seven game series in each round. the nba should shorten the playoffs or reduce off days because it takes over 2 months to complete the playoffs. by the nba finals, i usually forget some first round series.

Evolution23
02-08-2010, 10:40 PM
The Saints just won the Super Bowl.

To compare to other leagues, the Saints would be the Clippers, Royals, Bucks, Pirates, or Warriors. The great thing about the NFL is that any team could make a rise and play for it all. Look at the last 2 years - the Saints and Cardinals in the Super Bowl? Amazing. Those two teams have been doormats for years.

That type of stuff just doesn't happen in the NBA. The stars and power teams overwhelmingly control the outcome of games and the league. I really hope that the new collective bargaining agreement will create a more balanced level of competition allowing there to be 8-10 good teams instead of the 2 or 3 we see now.

For the record, I'm a huge NBA fan too, but I just wish there was more parody.

Yeah but you are talking about a completely different sport. In the NFL there is 1 game elimination in the playoffs because its a much more physical sport and players are likely to get hurt. Basketball has a 7 game series because its a grind it out kind of sport. Sorry your arguement fails.

Evolution23
02-08-2010, 10:43 PM
The great thing about the NBA is its not about who is the better team on a particular day. Its not even about getting lucky.. It really comes down to which team is better and the 7 game series really proves that.

MacFitz92
02-08-2010, 10:47 PM
I think he means, in the NFL, at the beginning of any season, a new team can rise (see Falcon/Dolphins from a couple years ago).

And of the teams you mentioned, only the Lakers, Cavs, Magic, Celtics, and maybe Denver are true title threats.
The Mavs, Thunder, Hawks, Raps, Jazz, Blazers, Suns and Spurs won't come close to sniffing a ring.

02/08/10



I think I'll quote you on this one buddy.

iggypop123
02-08-2010, 10:49 PM
The Saints just won the Super Bowl.

To compare to other leagues, the Saints would be the Clippers, Royals, Bucks, Pirates, or Warriors. The great thing about the NFL is that any team could make a rise and play for it all. Look at the last 2 years - the Saints and Cardinals in the Super Bowl? Amazing. Those two teams have been doormats for years.

That type of stuff just doesn't happen in the NBA. The stars and power teams overwhelmingly control the outcome of games and the league. I really hope that the new collective bargaining agreement will create a more balanced level of competition allowing there to be 8-10 good teams instead of the 2 or 3 we see now.

For the record, I'm a huge NBA fan too, but I just wish there was more parody.

um the saints are full of stars and are a powerhouse. the two best teams in the nfl recordwise got the superbowl. not exactly a case of any 2 teams making it. it was the best from start to finish

MacFitz92
02-08-2010, 10:49 PM
How do I add time and date to a quote, or do I do it manually.

DCB/LAL
02-08-2010, 10:50 PM
The Difference in the NBA is that the BEST TEAM usually wins. They play a SERIES of games which means "luck" has a limited role it may come to play in 1 or maybe 2 games but the majority of the time the better team wins. Take for Example last year the Bulls gave the Celtics a run for their money but any Basketball fan NOT a Bulls fan knew they had no chance to win the Finals. In Football you can be the BEST TEAM but if you have ONE BAD game thats it theres no tommarow your done.



I like that about the NFL its a short season(16 games) so 1 and done makes it exciting. However I WOULD NOT like that for the NBA the season is 82 games and play teams 2 or 4 times a year and its too long an NBA season to have it be one and done and not be sure if the BETTER team actually won.

_KB24_
02-08-2010, 10:54 PM
No small market team will ever win the NBA as long as Stern is in power, as a matter of fact I don't think any small market team won the NBA since Stern has been in power.

The Spurs were a small market team.

_KB24_
02-08-2010, 10:57 PM
The NFL is a win-and-go home situation. They don't play series. If your lucky, you can win it all based on one game. The Sixers would have been World Champions back in 01. In the NFL, you ride off momentum and you can be the god damn Lions and still have a 50/50 shot at winning the Superbowl when playing in it.

THE MTL
02-08-2010, 11:36 PM
I wouldnt call the Saints the Clippers or the Warriors. Maybe the mid-tier team like Utah, Thunder, Miami, etc.

While the NFL format is WAY MORE exciting.....the best team in the league "SHOULD" win a championship. It only makes sense. You have one off game and that is your season in the NFL.

silvTeg98
02-08-2010, 11:49 PM
in the NFL the best team doesnt always win unlike in the NBA where you have to win 4 best of seven series.

Go_NUGGETS
02-09-2010, 12:01 AM
This thread is LAMMME.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 12:14 AM
In a best of 7 series, there wouldn't be any football players left on the field by the 4th game, except maybe the kickers and punters. A full contact sport means injuries all over the joint!

But you make a good point. You can't compare parity in the NFL versus parity in the NBA, simply because in the NBA the cream is always supposed to rise to the top. The long season and the long playoff format almost ensures it.

Shorten the NBA season to 16 games and a playoff format similar to the NFL and then try to predict who wins the title every year. My guess is that you'd have lots of different champions, too, because every team would truly have a viable chance to recover from an early loss. And for those teams that aren't on the same page early in the season -- as is the case with even championship teams -- that would present an opportunity for a team like, say, the Mavs or Phoenix, who usually have continuuity down pat early in the year.

Further, while boxing may be considered the "sweet science", there is something to be said about the complexity of the NFL. In the NBA you can get wins from sheer athleticism alone. In the NFL? You need that to a lesser extent, but you need a strategy ("play book") and chemistry that trumps all others in order to win. And then you have to have a little luck. We all know how predictable the round ball bounces.

Agreed.

BaustinSali08
02-09-2010, 12:17 AM
No small market team will ever win the NBA as long as Stern is in power, as a matter of fact I don't think any small market team won the NBA since Stern has been in power.

Isn't San Antonio considered a small market?

ElMarroAfamado
02-09-2010, 12:18 AM
The Saints just won the Super Bowl.

To compare to other leagues, the Saints would be the Clippers, Royals, Bucks, Pirates, or Warriors. The great thing about the NFL is that any team could make a rise and play for it all. Look at the last 2 years - the Saints and Cardinals in the Super Bowl? Amazing. Those two teams have been doormats for years.

That type of stuff just doesn't happen in the NBA. The stars and power teams overwhelmingly control the outcome of games and the league. I really hope that the new collective bargaining agreement will create a more balanced level of competition allowing there to be 8-10 good teams instead of the 2 or 3 we see now.

For the record, I'm a huge NBA fan too, but I just wish there was more parody.

the nfl is boring...besides the occasional exciting plays...the game is boring...especially running plays up the guy....oh god...
but eh
thats just my opinion

Lo Porto
02-09-2010, 12:30 AM
The NBA has a solid product. Don't get me wrong, I'm an NBA fan. But the truth is, the vast majority of the public cares about the Super Bowl and March Madness. People who aren't even college basketball fans or football fans follow those two events. And those people could care less about the NBA. It's because anything can happen in the NFL, but the NBA is predictable.

Very soon, there will be a lockout in the NBA. If you haven't noticed, then you aren't paying attention. There will be a lockout because the NBA product is not good enough to pay the ridiculous salaries. If the product was better, money wouldn't be an issue just like the NFL, college football, NCAA Bball, etc.

The entire nation and most of the world stopped for the Super Bowl. Until the NBA has even a third of that amount of people watching it's title, then it will always be envious of the NFL. I just wish a few minor changes were made in the NBA to make it a bit more exciting. Until then, the stars will continue to get the calls, the limelight and the titles.

knickerbockerny
02-09-2010, 01:02 AM
To refine the NBA games you have to start with the players. Its true a lot of the players are so fundamentally flawed and quite franky not good enough. The NBA needs to get stricter with their draft rules. Just like the NFL, they should adopt a two year rule. Meaning you have to be two years out of highschool to be draft eligible. And for foreign players you have to be 21. Too many teams suffer from drafting fundamentally flawed raw players instead of refined finished products.

The draft order should be determined by record just like the NFL. Now I know why the NBA eleminated this process in the first place (teams losing on purpose), but think about the Nets if they fall out the top 3 this year (Because the NBA draft usually has 2-3 can't miss superstars). Then have the worst record again the following season, to fall out of the top three again. The draft is the quick fix method.

The season should be anywhere from 50-60 games and all rounds of the playoffs should be best of 5. This should happen because of the empty seats in so many areanas, but won't happen because the NBA wants to try and maximize profits.

Lastly the league should rid themselves of guarenteed contracts, if the player underperforms like a poster stated. There is no reason why a Eddy Curry should be getting paid so much without the desire to even want to perform, setting the Knicks organization back years.

The NFL is doing so many things right and the NBA should take notes.

topdog
02-09-2010, 01:16 AM
No small market team will ever win the NBA as long as Stern is in power, as a matter of fact I don't think any small market team won the NBA since Stern has been in power.

Spurs. Check their market then look back at their fingers.

topdog
02-09-2010, 01:19 AM
The NFL is a win-and-go home situation. They don't play series. If your lucky, you can win it all based on one game. The Sixers would have been World Champions back in 01. In the NFL, you ride off momentum and you can be the god damn Lions and still have a 50/50 shot at winning the Superbowl when playing in it.

Going back to football, the Saints could have just as easily lost the NFC if not for a coin toss. Were they really the best team this year?

HoopsDrive
02-09-2010, 02:07 AM
The NBA has a solid product. Don't get me wrong, I'm an NBA fan. But the truth is, the vast majority of the public cares about the Super Bowl and March Madness. People who aren't even college basketball fans or football fans follow those two events. And those people could care less about the NBA. It's because anything can happen in the NFL, but the NBA is predictable.

Very soon, there will be a lockout in the NBA. If you haven't noticed, then you aren't paying attention. There will be a lockout because the NBA product is not good enough to pay the ridiculous salaries. If the product was better, money wouldn't be an issue just like the NFL, college football, NCAA Bball, etc.

The entire nation and most of the world stopped for the Super Bowl. Until the NBA has even a third of that amount of people watching it's title, then it will always be envious of the NFL. I just wish a few minor changes were made in the NBA to make it a bit more exciting. Until then, the stars will continue to get the calls, the limelight and the titles.

Again, where do you get this info from? I'm an NBA follower and a casual NFL fan and I could care less about the NCAA March Madness. Most of my friends who care about sports are not interested in the NCAA March Madness. Hell, even people I know that aren't interested in sports are more aware of the Superbowl and the NBA than the NCAA. The NFL may be more recognized than the NBA in North America but there is no way in this world that March Madness has more recognition than the NBA. At the very least, not worldwide.

The US, some parts of Canada and Mexico and a few other places in the world stopped to watch the Superbowl. 'Most of the world' is not an accurate term to describe the worldwide viewership of the event. In South America, only parts of Brazil and Argentina would even have known about this event. In Asia, the recognition is almost nil. Viewership of the Superbowl comes almost exclusively from North America while the NBA is a more worldwide known league.

I'm wholly against a system that increases the chances that a team can 'luck it out' and win it all or pull off a gigantic upset through the outcome of 1 game, 1 day and advance. The NBA system is designed for the survival of the fittest. May the best team win. If an underdog can beat the better team in a 7-game series, fine. So be it. They truly deserve to advance. But don't come to me with the BS that is advancing through a 1 game playoff match or less than 7 games.

Public Enemy #1
02-09-2010, 02:24 AM
The Thunder an elite team?! That's a joke. lol But in all seriousness the game is entirely different. I'm just happy there isn't a team like the Yankees in the NBA. Think how terrible it would be to see Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Kobe, Howard, Garnett, Duncan on the same team. haha

Ebbs
02-09-2010, 02:32 AM
Never happen ball is all about 5 players who are on the floor making an impact. Football you have 24 not including special teams. That's to many guys to buy and secure. Unlike ball where the owner willing to spend the most dominates the market.

streetballa
02-09-2010, 02:39 AM
Very soon, there will be a lockout in the NBA. If you haven't noticed, then you aren't paying attention. There will be a lockout because the NBA product is not good enough to pay the ridiculous salaries. If the product was better, money wouldn't be an issue just like the NFL, college football, NCAA Bball, etc.

Uhhh....Isn't the NFL going into an uncapped year now and facing a lockout also? Not to mention college athletes are the most exploited athletes in the world IMO and I am not sure how much of an opinion that is, since they get paid with scholarships or nothing and just walk on. How can you even compare a business to college?
But I bet the NFL goes to a lockout before the NBA, the NBA already opened negotiations with a horrible offer they knew would not be accepted but they have a year and a half to get an agreement settled on. However, I do not think either league will be locked out (they are not the NHL) but I could be wrong and both leagues could be stupid and decided no money is better then making some sacrifice.

montazingmvp
02-09-2010, 03:52 AM
The NBA has a solid product. Don't get me wrong, I'm an NBA fan. But the truth is, the vast majority of the public cares about the Super Bowl and March Madness. People who aren't even college basketball fans or football fans follow those two events. And those people could care less about the NBA. It's because anything can happen in the NFL, but the NBA is predictable.

Very soon, there will be a lockout in the NBA. If you haven't noticed, then you aren't paying attention. There will be a lockout because the NBA product is not good enough to pay the ridiculous salaries. If the product was better, money wouldn't be an issue just like the NFL, college football, NCAA Bball, etc.

The entire nation and most of the world stopped for the Super Bowl. Until the NBA has even a third of that amount of people watching it's title, then it will always be envious of the NFL. I just wish a few minor changes were made in the NBA to make it a bit more exciting. Until then, the stars will continue to get the calls, the limelight and the titles.

lol sorry bro but that isn't true at all...you'll find that most of the world could give two ***** about football...

first of all basketball is way more popular worldwide than football.

and second of all the only sporting event that the world truly stops for is the fifa world cup...

Lo Porto
02-09-2010, 10:10 AM
This Super Bowl was the most watched American television event EVER. 106+ million people

I'm a huge soccer fan so the biggest total event is by far the World Cup. I bet more people watch the Super Bowl than total people would watch 7 games of a 7 game Finals series.

As for the lockout, the NBA and NFL situations are different. The NBA is experiencing a lack of money causing owners to find a need to make cuts. The NFL has a ton of money and they're just fighting over the pieces of the pie. 2 completely different situations for their respective lockouts.

All I'm saying with this thread is that the NBA should make it more interesting. If the NBA cut two teams, then that would mean 25-30 players who really shouldn't be in the NBA would be gone. Then they should do away with making the the last year of a contract guaranteed. Look at how many expiring players get dealt just for financial reasons. It cheapens the NBA. And finally, all playoff series should go back to best of 5. Each game would carry more importance.

TopsyTurvy
02-09-2010, 10:45 AM
In the NBA the talent of the players is spread far too thin to give every team a valid chance at a title bid. It's the same in both the NHL and MLB - there are perennial title competitors and lovable losers. Heck, in the NBA there are whispers of contraction among owners.

Raoul Duke
02-09-2010, 10:46 AM
...and you can be the god damn Lions and still have a 50/50 shot at winning the Superbowl when playing in it.

The Lions will never play in the Super Bowl. All the parity in the universe isn't going to help that franchise (my franchise for those who think I'm talking smack).


I'm an NBA follower and a casual NFL fan and I could care less about the NCAA March Madness. Most of my friends who care about sports are not interested in the NCAA March Madness. Hell, even people I know that aren't interested in sports are more aware of the Superbowl and the NBA than the NCAA.

Well, then you and your friends are a rare breed, because the fact is that Super Bowl and March Madness ratings dwarf those of the NBA playoffs.

I have a lot of friends who are crazy about sports, and not many of them care about the NBA. Most of them are all about pro/college football and NCAA basketball, and they pretty much all say it's because only a few NBA games each year carry any kind of significance. And our playoffs are terrible. Over half the teams in the ****ing league get into our playoffs. What the hell is that? If it's going to be a best-of-seven every round to eliminate luck, then why not trim that back to 8 teams total?

USMCLaker
02-09-2010, 11:24 AM
Lets make one thing clear the reason this super bowl had the highest rating ever is for one reason and one reason only: Katrina. Even I watched the Super Bowl this year.

This includes me and I never watch the sport because it is like pulling teeth to watch a sport where the action in play lasts about five seconds for every 20 seconds of of non action.

Please, there is a reason the NBA is growing internationally and most other countries have no interest in the NFL. By the way isn't the second most popular sport in the US Auto Racing?

Lo Porto
02-09-2010, 11:48 AM
Are you really going to talk about the pace of the NBA over the NFL? In the playoffs, the ball just sits in one guys hands for 20 seconds then he gets sent to the line. He takes a FT, then there's a TV timeout. Then he takes another FT and then another TV timeout. Then the other team inbounds the ball and there's a foul. Another TV timeout. It's not like the pace of the NBA is breakneck during the playoffs. Teams get way too many timeouts on top of mandatory TV timeouts.

The NBA could do a lot to improve it's product.

USMCLaker
02-09-2010, 12:02 PM
Are you really going to talk about the pace of the NBA over the NFL? In the playoffs, the ball just sits in one guys hands for 20 seconds then he gets sent to the line. He takes a FT, then there's a TV timeout. Then he takes another FT and then another TV timeout. Then the other team inbounds the ball and there's a foul. Another TV timeout. It's not like the pace of the NBA is breakneck during the playoffs. Teams get way too many timeouts on top of mandatory TV timeouts.

The NBA could do a lot to improve it's product.

No I am not going to argue the pace of the game because there is no argument hands down football is so ridiculously slow it's not even close. You can't argue otherwise. Even if your argument was true (and it's not) a free throw is part of the game it's called scoring. If you are going to argue about the NBA timeouts well after every play it's like watching a timeout in the NFL it's about play calling isn't that what NBA timeouts are for?

Lo Porto
02-09-2010, 12:09 PM
We could argue this all day, but one thing is blatantly obvious - the NFL has a better product. More people would rather watch the NFL and NCAA bball for that matter over the NBA. A lot of that has to do with predictability of games and series. People know that halfway through the 4th quarter that Kobe will either hit his shot or get sent to the line. The same for LeBron. It's almost a shock when those guys don't get bailed out by the refs.

The new CBA could be massive for making the NBA more balanced and attractive to neutral fans. So far I've suggested:

Fewer timeouts per team per game
Cut one team per conference to strenghten overall talent in the league
Do something about the constant fouling in the last 2 minutes of games
Make every playoff series best of 5
Lower player salaries
Install a harder cap

USMCLaker
02-09-2010, 12:20 PM
We could argue this all day, but one thing is blatantly obvious - the NFL has a better product. More people would rather watch the NFL and NCAA bball for that matter over the NBA. A lot of that has to do with predictability of games and series. People know that halfway through the 4th quarter that Kobe will either hit his shot or get sent to the line. The same for LeBron. It's almost a shock when those guys don't get bailed out by the refs.

The new CBA could be massive for making the NBA more balanced and attractive to neutral fans. So far I've suggested:

Fewer timeouts per team per game
Cut one team per conference to strenghten overall talent in the league
Do something about the constant fouling in the last 2 minutes of games
Make every playoff series best of 5
Lower player salaries
Install a harder cap

Is there room for improvement in the NBA? Yes, but it's the same for football. Overtime games in the NFL are decided by the first team that scores in the OT session how fair is that. Also, the game starts on a coin toss no competitive action determines who gets the ball first. I hear football fans always complaining about kickers and how they aren't real football players then why have them in the game.

Every product could benefit from improvements but that doesn't mean that the NBA product is all that turrible. The championships that the Lakers won against Boston in the 80's meant more because they were won playing an elite all time great team but that doesn't diminsh current day championship play.

HoopsDrive
02-09-2010, 12:34 PM
We could argue this all day, but one thing is blatantly obvious - the NFL has a better product. More people would rather watch the NFL and NCAA bball for that matter over the NBA. A lot of that has to do with predictability of games and series. People know that halfway through the 4th quarter that Kobe will either hit his shot or get sent to the line. The same for LeBron. It's almost a shock when those guys don't get bailed out by the refs.

The new CBA could be massive for making the NBA more balanced and attractive to neutral fans. So far I've suggested:

Fewer timeouts per team per game
Cut one team per conference to strenghten overall talent in the league
Do something about the constant fouling in the last 2 minutes of games
Make every playoff series best of 5
Lower player salaries
Install a harder cap

More people in North America may watch the NFL more than the NBA but definitely not the NCAA. Worldwide, the NBA is more recognized than the NFL.

The majority of people I know only watch the NFL when it's Superbowl time and could care less about what happens before it, same goes with me. And I only watch it for the new commercials, movie trailers and halftime show (The Who was great btw), not the 5 seconds of play action-30 seconds of talk.

Predictability has nothing to do with the product of the NBA or how it is doing or anything of the like. You're telling me that people would like to see mediocre teams upsetting the better ones by the sheer system? You're telling me that if there was a final between the Bobcats and Rockets this year as opposed to the pundits' choice of Cavs and Lakers that it would be more watched and draw more tickets to the arena? Please, it's got absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the NBA has a system that emphasizes long-run prowess over short-run 'luck'.

The system in itself is fine as it is. Do whatever you will with the salary limits, salary cap and refereeing rules but the system is completely fine. The best teams always comes out on top in the NBA and this is how it should be in every sport.

knickerbockerny
02-09-2010, 02:27 PM
More nationally televised games would not hurt either. In the hey day of the Jordan era some saturdays and every sunday there was NBA on NBC. Prime time games need to be moved to prime time spots.

SteveNash
02-09-2010, 04:42 PM
The NBA has a solid product. Don't get me wrong, I'm an NBA fan. But the truth is, the vast majority of the public cares about the Super Bowl and March Madness. People who aren't even college basketball fans or football fans follow those two events. And those people could care less about the NBA. It's because anything can happen in the NFL, but the NBA is predictable.

The Super Bowl and March Madness have the benefit of bringing in people who don't watch sports that often. How many people watch the Super Bowl because they just like to see the ads? That's how pathetic of a product the NFL has, people would rather watch ads for things they don't need then the actual game.

March Madness has the office pool betting, and alumni ties while running a ton of games at a time.

Neither can match the product the NBA puts on.

montazingmvp
02-09-2010, 07:22 PM
We could argue this all day, but one thing is blatantly obvious - the NFL has a better product. More people would rather watch the NFL and NCAA bball for that matter over the NBA. A lot of that has to do with predictability of games and series. People know that halfway through the 4th quarter that Kobe will either hit his shot or get sent to the line. The same for LeBron. It's almost a shock when those guys don't get bailed out by the refs.

The new CBA could be massive for making the NBA more balanced and attractive to neutral fans. So far I've suggested:

Fewer timeouts per team per game
Cut one team per conference to strenghten overall talent in the league
Do something about the constant fouling in the last 2 minutes of games
Make every playoff series best of 5
Lower player salaries
Install a harder cap


whats ironic about the argument that you're making is that if you were to base this logic on what makes the better sport...

then you would have to agree that soccer is by far and away the best sport, with fast paced action and fluidity through the game...

but somehow i can tell that you're probably not a soccer fan

silvTeg98
02-09-2010, 07:43 PM
Are you really going to talk about the pace of the NBA over the NFL? In the playoffs, the ball just sits in one guys hands for 20 seconds then he gets sent to the line. He takes a FT, then there's a TV timeout. Then he takes another FT and then another TV timeout. Then the other team inbounds the ball and there's a foul. Another TV timeout. It's not like the pace of the NBA is breakneck during the playoffs. Teams get way too many timeouts on top of mandatory TV timeouts.

The NBA could do a lot to improve it's product.

i cant believe you brought up timeouts! i hate it when theres a touchdown and extrapoint then commercials, kickoff then commercials. this happens a lot throughout a football game and its just really annoying

Lo Porto
02-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Wow, the shots keep coming...

I played college soccer, so yes, I am a true soccer fan. Follow it quite closely.

March Madness is much, much more watched than the NBA playoffs. Why? Because it's more exciting. The NBA isn't that exciting. Think about it, when was the last time you were on the edge of your seat for a Finals? 1998? Celtics versus LA in the 80's? Really, it never comes down to a great showdown or great series ending game. The level of talent is not distributed evenly and the first round of the playoffs is a joke. Only 1 of the first 8 matchups is usually exciting.

And once again, I'm not bashing the NBA. I'm just pointing out the obvious - the NBA should take measures to improve their product because it's getting killed in comparison to the NFL, March Madness, College Football and maybe even the MLB postseason. Create a more fair cap, have the series go best of 5, and maybe lessen the amount of teams who make the playoffs so those 82 games actually mean something more than positioning.

smith&wesson
02-09-2010, 08:24 PM
im not a big football guy so correct me if im wrong but if a player misses a game in the NFL he doesnt get paid for that game right ? I understand that football only has about 16 games a season or somthing like that but thats great, I think if players didnt get paid for missing a game there would be alot less dnp's in the NBA.