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WSU Tony
02-04-2010, 02:01 PM
I know we've had this argument before but just for fun: What's more important for a championship, a great SG or a great Center? Elite SG's aren't common but an elite center in the league is very rare. When looking back at championship teams it seems like more of them had dominant centers as compared to SG's.

Is my thinking way off? What's your opinion?

Dominant SG or dominant Center?

Mauersota
02-04-2010, 02:05 PM
You have to have both an inside presence and an outside presence.

mikantsass
02-04-2010, 02:13 PM
Big men..... Controlling the paint is like a football team controlling the line of scrimmage

WSU Tony
02-04-2010, 02:32 PM
Big men..... Controlling the paint is like a football team controlling the line of scrimmage

I agree. All good teams will have the good WR's and RB's but the team that controls the line (or the paint) is the team which most often wins. The Vikings rolled over the Cowboys because they dominated the line. Then, the next week, the Saints won the battle of the trenches and won the game.

If you can't control the paint in the NBA, your not winning a championship. You might get to the playoffs but I doubt you'd win a championship.

WSU Tony
02-04-2010, 02:33 PM
You have to have both an inside presence and an outside presence.

You can't have your cake and eat it too! Just pick one!

Mauersota
02-04-2010, 02:34 PM
You can't have your cake and eat it too! Just pick one!

I made my own thread since I don't like the cake that is being offered here.

WSU Tony
02-04-2010, 02:53 PM
You play to win the game. You play to win a championship. It doesn't matter what "system" you play with, the GOAL is to win a championship.

The easiest way to a championship? A dominant center.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-04-2010, 02:53 PM
Depends on the PG, SF, and PF

topdog
02-04-2010, 02:55 PM
Too many factors outside of one player to say definitively one or the other. The coach matters. The style matters. The other 7-14 guys matter. I love watching true centers who are actually skilled with a prowess around the rim on both offense and defense. Wings are overrated these days because watching guys chuck up 30 is more exciting, but that doesn't mean I can just take one over the other - I'll take either.

WSU Tony
02-04-2010, 02:56 PM
White sox fans don't count. Ok fine, you can vote too. :)

WSU Tony
02-04-2010, 02:58 PM
Too many factors outside of one player to say definitively one or the other. The coach matters. The style matters. The other 7-14 guys matter. I love watching true centers who are actually skilled with a prowess around the rim on both offense and defense. Wings are overrated these days because watching guys chuck up 30 is more exciting, but that doesn't mean I can just take one over the other - I'll take either.

Fair enough.

If you could choose a young stud SG or young stud C to build a franchise around, which would it be? Everything else aside....

I can name quite a few young promissing SG's in this league but not many centers. I feel a young stud C is more valuable than a young stud SG.

Mauersota
02-04-2010, 03:03 PM
Fair enough.

If you could choose a young stud SG or young stud C to build a franchise around, which would it be? Everything else aside....

I can name quite a few young promissing SG's in this league but not many centers. I feel a young stud C is more valuable than a young stud SG.

If I'm starting a team from scratch and I can't have LeBron or Kobe in his heyday I'd take a center like Howard.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-04-2010, 03:03 PM
Fair enough.

If you could choose a young stud SG or young stud C to build a franchise around, which would it be? Everything else aside....

I can name quite a few young promissing SG's in this league but not many centers. I feel a young stud C is more valuable than a young stud SG.

It is more valuable because they are much rarer. We all thought Oden would be one, but well, we all know how that went. They are just real hard to come by, and by getting one, doesn't guarantee you a title.

WSU Tony
02-04-2010, 03:06 PM
I just feel that having a dominant center gives you a better chance at a title than a dominant SG. Neither of them guarantee you a title, you are right, but I feel one of them gives you a better chance.

Sixerlover
02-04-2010, 03:06 PM
I'd rather build a team around a championship caliber center, because if he is an offensive and defensive force, building the rest of the team would be very easy.

Wade_County
02-04-2010, 03:19 PM
my vote goes to center, however when you have a player with the caliber of a Kobe or Lebron, I believe a good center will work also

JordansBulls
02-04-2010, 03:23 PM
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/nbachampionshipstatspf4.jpg

Add Kobe last year and Garnett in 2008 and Duncan in 2007.

Mauersota
02-04-2010, 03:27 PM
If that is your excel sheet it would be neat to see from like 1980 onward since the game has changed so much.

magichatnumber9
02-04-2010, 03:28 PM
Usually a big man helps. If you took Kendrick Perkins and put him in Dwight Howard's body, Orlando would be almost unstoppable. Unfortunately Dwight thinks he is a less creepy version of Michael Jackson.

Raph12
02-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Elite centers are extremely rare, especially in today's league, so I'll go with the center position.

RadiantShot
02-04-2010, 03:54 PM
BigMen.

igPay atinLay
02-04-2010, 03:54 PM
You can always find shooters you can't always find big men

bmanjones
02-04-2010, 04:06 PM
build a team around a dominant big man

29$JerZ
02-04-2010, 04:20 PM
SG

You need a good balance of both but the days of relying on 1 specific big are over imo.

thedfactor
02-04-2010, 04:23 PM
The will be fine with Perk, KG, and Wallace down there. I heard a speculative rumor of a deal where the Celtics send Ray Allen to Sacramento for Kevin Martin and Andres Nocioni. Now I would personally hate to see KMart in Boston, but that would make them much better.

zambo4president
02-04-2010, 04:36 PM
Center. Look at Tim Duncan.

Mauersota
02-04-2010, 04:54 PM
Center. Look at Tim Duncan.

Who a lot of people call the best PF ever.

Raph12
02-04-2010, 05:11 PM
Who a lot of people call the best PF ever.

He is.

Blair plays center for the Spurs, as does Ratliff and Bonner off the bench, Timmy can guard centers better than they do, so he does.

MTar786
02-04-2010, 07:54 PM
which team would u rather have

pg. raymond felton
sg. D-wade
sf. jason kapono
pf. udonis haslem
c. marcus camby

or

pg. raefer alston
sg. courtney lee
sf. luke walton
pf. kenyon martin
c dwight howard

id rather take wade.

elite centers are more rare and they are easier to build around. but the way the league is right now. there arent any mega start centers like before. shaq, hakeem, david robinson etc..

now if u ask me if id rather have kobe to build around on or a prime shaq. id take shaq even though kobe will go down as the better player in history. Cuz with a guy like shaq in his prime you know you are going to win championships no matter what

JasonJohnHorn
02-04-2010, 11:10 PM
Depends on the team. Jordan didn't need a C, but the Rockets didn't need a star shooting guard for their first title with Hakeem.

As a general rule though a solid rebounding/defender is needed. But teams have to be well rounded and deep to win.

DODGERS&LAKERS
02-05-2010, 12:53 AM
I can only think of one center who won a ring without an elite guard next to him. Russell won with Cousy and Haclicek. Wilt won with Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, Kareem won with Oscar Robertson and Magic. Shaq won with Kobe and then Wade. Hakeem is the only won that comes to my mind, when I think of a center dominated team that won without an elite guard. I can name a few perimeter players that have won a ring though without an elite center. Rick Barry, Isaiah Thomas, Jordan, and Kobe come to mind right off the bat. I'm sure I could find more if I wanted to do the research.

You people value a centers pretty stats too much. Of course they are going to have a high field goal percentage. Any time a guard goes to the rim, a big man is there to either catch a pass while he is all by himself because the guard drew the attention of the other team, or he has an easy rebound off a miss because the opposing center is out of position to grab a board because he went over to contest a guards shot.

Dont even get me started on the rebound stat. That is the most worthless stat of them all. I dont even call them rebounds. I call them B.B.T.M'S (BALL BOUNCED TO ME'S) If the ball caroms off the rim towards you, you get a b.b.t.m. If your the tallest guy on the court, you get to stand in the front of the free throw line and grab at least 3 or 4 free b.b.t.m's. a game.

So in short, any great guard can make a big tall man with good hands look good. If they can catch a pass in close quarters, they will average at least 15 points a game. If they are over 7 feet tall, they get a lot of a worthless stat called a rebound because they are not skilled enough to go away from the basket, so they stay close and wait and see if the ball bounces their way.

Give me an elite guard and a big man who plays tough defense and contest shots, and Ill give you a championship.

THISISDAYEAR
02-06-2010, 04:13 PM
You need to have that big nasty guy inside the paint.

LeBroom
02-08-2010, 12:24 PM
It depends on the situation. If you're building a team from scratch, with the intention to win a championship, you go with a Center.

If you already have a core group of players, then a go-to-guy SG can be the ingredient that puts your team over the top.

Ethix11
02-08-2010, 01:00 PM
I think SG. While Dominant Cs are rare, i beleve you can win a ring with a big bodied Center that can dunk and rebound as well as block or alter shots. But if your SG doesnt get you any points, then you should have a dominant SF because you should rely on your PG to facilitate your game and your PF to assist with low post scoring/rebounding. A SGs main purpose is to score. But in this league you cant have one without the other.

eugene
02-08-2010, 01:48 PM
Only Chicago Bulls won without having dominant big guys. Just try to remember:
Bynum + Gasol
Garnett
Duncan
Wallace + Wallace
Shaq
Olajuwon
Edwards + Laimbeer + Rodman
Kareem
McHale + Parish
Bill Russell
Chamberlain

Derick713
02-08-2010, 02:15 PM
Last time I checked Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade made it to the Finals with elite centers. I can't remember D-Wade winning a title without Shaq. I can't remember Kobe winning a title without a skilled center.

Shaquille O'Neal has taken three different teams to the Finals. Tim Duncan whose position is sometime debatable led the Spurs to the Finals without an elite SG. Dwight Howard took the Magic to the Finals without an elite SG.

AIsixersFK
02-08-2010, 02:34 PM
Center......Here's why

Championships:
Lakers Dynasty had Shaq
Spurs had David Robinson/Tim Duncan
Pistons had Ben Wallace.....Lakers had Chris Mihm when they lost?
Miami had Shaq

All keys to their championship runs

Chicagofaithful
02-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Look at the Heat, they are the perfect example... they have the 2nd best SG in the world, but are almost out of the playoffs because they have no front court.

However you can flip it and say look at the Clippers, they have a huge front court presence and yet are in the same boat... i think you need both

td0tsfinest
02-08-2010, 04:38 PM
C-you need interior presence on both sides of the court.