PDA

View Full Version : NBPA Union Prez Derek Fisher Rebuffs Salary-Concession Idea



ko8e24
02-01-2010, 08:27 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=4877615

BOSTON -- If NBA owners ask players to give back an inordinate amount of money in collective bargaining talks, those talks at All-Star Weekend probably won't last long.


That was the implication from union president Derek Fisher of the Los Angeles Lakers in the wake of a report on SI.com that owners will seek to cut the players' share of revenues from 57 to 45 percent.


"I don't foresee any situation where we agree to a deal that flips the percentage in that manner, but there are a lot of ways to get to a destination or a goal," Fisher told ESPN.com.


Owners are expected to make their first formal proposal to the players' union in the coming days, and the sides have scheduled a collective bargaining session for All-Star Weekend, Feb. 12-14.

The sides have met several times, formally and informally, but this will be the first time either side will have already put forth a formal proposal -- meaning a tenor will have been set.


A reduction from 57 percent of revenues, which the players are now guaranteed, to 45 percent would be tantamount to a 21 percent drop in player salary expenditures. Since 1997-98, the players have received at least 57 percent of basketball-related income, peaking at 65 percent in the 2000-01 season.


The NBA would not comment on the accuracy of the SI.com report.


"It's a negotiation, so I don't think we'd be surprised if there's an overreach," Fisher said. "So we'll see when we receive it how it looks, but I don't know if we should box ourselves in to just sending back our response to what they sent."

It is anticipated the NBA will seek shorter contracts (the maximum length is currently six years), mechanisms to make less of that money guaranteed, and a hard or harder salary cap to help stem leaguewide financial losses the owners claim are reaching hundreds of million of dollars annually.


The union is on record as saying it believes the current system is working for the owners, in large part because the structure of the labor deal negotiated in 2005 has steadily reduced the amount of future dollars committed to player payrolls.


Union director Billy Hunter has offered to extend the current agreement, though the NBA has strongly indicated that such an option is out of the question.


"In these meetings we've really tried to give them a feel for exactly what we are looking for in this deal, as well," Fisher told ESPN.com. "I don't think any side has any intentions on dragging it out unnecessarily, but at the same time we have year and a half [remaining on the current agreement, which expires at the end of the 2010-11 season]. We're serious in our approach to getting this started sooner than later, but we're not going to rush to judgment to things that are sent out this early in the game."

Wilson
02-01-2010, 08:56 PM
I hope they can get something sorted, the last thing any of us wants is a lock-out.

td0tsfinest
02-01-2010, 09:56 PM
I hope they can get something sorted, the last thing any of us wants is a lock-out.

I might just go insane if there's a lockout.

smith&wesson
02-01-2010, 10:18 PM
^^^^ x2 :sigh:

Wilson
02-01-2010, 10:20 PM
I might just go insane if there's a lockout.


^^^^ x2 :sigh:

I wouldn't have a forum to moderate...:shrug: :p

DerekRE_3
02-01-2010, 10:23 PM
I wouldn't have a forum to moderate...:shrug: :p

During the lockout I would create Gerald Wallace discussion groups. Don't worry.

Ragun
02-01-2010, 10:26 PM
During the lockout I would create Gerald Wallace discussion groups. Don't worry.

thats the starting line up ever.

Wilson
02-01-2010, 10:26 PM
During the lockout I would create Gerald Wallace discussion groups. Don't worry.

I knew I could count on you :love:

pistonsfanomg
02-01-2010, 11:51 PM
Taken From MLive.com - Source from ESPN.com


Report: NBA appears to be heading toward a long lockout

Utah Jazz forward Carlos Boozer, who is making $12.6 million this season, could see his salary dramatically decrease under the new CBA.
The NBA and NBPA are heading for a seemingly epic battle as the current collective bargaining agreement nears completion. ESPN's Chris Broussard writes about the current scenario for TrueHoop.

January 26, ESPN.com: The gist of what I was told is that the owners will go for the jugular and drop the players’ salaries immensely.

I spoke with one executive about Amare Stoudemire and was told that, the way owners are talking now, Stoudemire wouldn’t even get a five-year contract worth $60 million under the next CBA. That sounded crazy to me, but when I spoke with a team owner an hour later, he made the executive sound tame.

“The owners are really going to chop the money down,’’ the owner said. “I think Stoudemire would get $5 or $6 million [annually] in the next deal. The bottom line is that things are going to change dramatically.’’


Broussard believes that prediction is extreme, and quotes another GM source believing he's right to be skeptical..


“That [$5 million for Stoudemire] sounds a little bizarre, but player salaries are definitely going to take a hit,’’ the GM said. “Players that come up for contracts under the new CBA are going to find themselves getting a lot less money.’’


While reducing the amount of maximum years on contracts, and putting performance incentives on the amount guaranteed in contracts seems reasonable, allowing non-guaranteed contracts is most likely not going to happen. Either way, at least one owner told Broussand there was no doubt there will be a lockout.

Ian Thomsen of Sports Illustrated has also talked to player agents and league officials, and gives readers more dire warnings of a long lockout.

...Four team executives have told me they're anticipating a hard cap on payrolls, which will clamp down on player salaries and prevent big franchises like the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics from outspending teams from smaller markets.


A hard cap would transform the way teams are assembled. Look at the Lakers, whose payroll of $91.4 million has vaulted them a league-leading $33.7 million above the cap. Try this perspective: If the soft-cap system of today was instantly replaced by a hard cap, the Lakers would no longer be able to afford the salaries of Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum, who are their second- and third-most-expensive players with current salaries of $16.5 million and $12.5 million, respectively. And even their disposal wouldn't be enough: The Lakers would need to slash another $4.8 million to climb under the hard cap. (Goodbye, Luke Walton.)


At one time, I thought a long lockout, and an epic fight over the next CBA, could be avoided. Economic conditions would surely put the Players Association in the mood to make concessions in negotiations, and the owners would want to maximize their monies without a long, drawn-out process.

But, the league might be doing too much by insisting that players take huge salary cuts, while instituting a 'hard cap'. These restrictions would not only limit the money teams could give to secondary stars and role players, but also franchise players. Players and their agents will not be very happy about the current proposals being put out there. Thomsen talked to one such agent.

Agent Bill Duffy is among those who believes the NBA won't be able to install a hard cap in 2011-12. "I've heard all of that [speculation]," said Duffy, who represents Yao Ming, Steve Nash and other stars. "If the league tries to go too far with this, then my prediction is the union will disband. If the league is going to try to force a hard cap down the players' throat, then they'll disband the union and file antitrust [lawsuits] against the league."


Professional sports is one of the only businesses where the employees are also the product. It makes for a distinct relationship between the players and management. If the NBPA did disband, there would have to be a plan in place for a new league to compete with the NBA. I don't believe either the owners or the players really want to push the button on a NBA Armageddon.

The league sets the current salary cap for teams at 51percent of basketball-related income (BRI). This is meant for the owners and players to both be able to share in the profits that the league generates. The formulas that go into figuring out the exact numbers can be somewhat complicated, but the CBA for the league tries to ensure a level of fairness.

Many fans will look to some of the demands being put forward by the owners as something that will help the league. But, the players and their representation (agents, union officials), will look at the veterans from past eras in the NBA, as well as the NFL, who wind up injured, broke and without any future. Giving up the gains earned through decades of negotiations, by committed players and their representatives, is something that will not go over easily.

These points will be especially tricky, considering the NBPA agreed to rookie scale contracts in previous negotiations. After rookie contracts expire, extensions and guaranteed contracts are seen by the NBPA as a reward for the younger players playing for a good value up to their first five years in the NBA.

Still, if the economic conditions do not get significantly better, the players will have to agree to pretty substantial concessions, which could be good for the league and the players in the long run. There are too many players receiving large amounts of monies that cannot be justified. Both the league and NBPA have to do something about that.

So, this is going to get ugly. I had thought that commissioner David Stern, the owners and the NBPA would realize that the economy has hit everyone hard and would negotiate in good faith. That does not seem likely, according to articles by both Broussard and Thomsen.

There is going to be a lockout, and it's going to be long assuming the demands are close to what's being reported. Fans may wind up with a better league, or in an extreme scenario, two competing leagues. Only time will tell.

dwadefan03
02-02-2010, 12:01 AM
i dont understand what a lockout is i dnt want to read this entire thing so would anyone care to explain

pistonsfanomg
02-02-2010, 12:04 AM
i dont understand what a lockout is i dnt want to read this entire thing so would anyone care to explain

Remember what happened to hockey?

If an NBA Lockout was to happen, Same thing would happen to the NBA

SA5195
02-02-2010, 12:08 AM
:bs:

ko8e24
02-02-2010, 12:10 AM
Derek Fisher from what I've heard is a good negotiator for the NBPA, and I'm sure the NBA will not allow a lockout to happen while you have guys like LeBron James and Kobe Bryant in their primes. NBA really had nothing to lose when MJ played his "then" last game in June 1998, and we had a lockout for training camp, preseason, and the first 32 games of the '98-'99 regular season.

smith&wesson
02-02-2010, 12:10 AM
noooo pls no lock out.
:sigh:

dam greedy owners, the fans pay to see the players, give them there dam money.

pistonsfanomg
02-02-2010, 12:12 AM
Derek Fisher from what I've heard is a good negotiator for the NBPA, and I'm sure the NBA will not allow a lockout to happen while you have guys like LeBron James and Kobe Bryant in their primes. NBA really had nothing to lose when MJ played his "then" last game in June 1998, and we had a lockout for training camp, preseason, and the first 32 games of the '98-'99 regular season.

Lockout would be bad for the NBA if it happened.

Remember how the NHL was so popular

and then all of a sudden its not popular like it used to be.

still1ballin
02-02-2010, 12:15 AM
I think I'll die

pistonsfanomg
02-02-2010, 12:17 AM
Woah I never knew you posted this

Wilson
02-02-2010, 12:17 AM
i dont understand what a lockout is i dnt want to read this entire thing so would anyone care to explain

Basically a work stoppage. If the owners and players don't come to an agreement in time, then there won't be any NBA basketball until they do. The '98-'99 regular season was cut short because of it, I'm not sure if a season has ever been completely cancelled because of it like the NHL though.

RaptorizedKevin
02-02-2010, 12:26 AM
this is the time to go emo. *slits wrist*

D1JM
02-02-2010, 12:32 AM
dont worry guys, the chicago guys will be talking about rose, lakers about kobe-gasol, celtics about the big three, heat about wade and toronto guys about bosh.

arkanian215
02-02-2010, 12:58 AM
The timing couldn't have been better for owners, except if the CBA expired prior to this season. Then the owners would have the most power in recent memory to drive down these salaries. They'll still have a strong position in bargaining down the NBAPA's demands but the union has one thing that's definitely going for them, great quality players in their primes. Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Bosh, CP3, Melo etc are all close to their primes. Guys like Gay, Mayo, Love, Durant, Bynum , Rose, Beasley, Jsmoove, D. Howard, Lopez etc are all heading into it. The product is superior to so many of the previous years and the insane athleticism of the current crop has really helped make the NBA game interesting to a lot more people. It's much easier to sell athleticism and flash than fundamentals (not mutually exclusive). Compared to other forms of entertainment, the NBA is still profitable as a whole. There will be individual winners and losers all the time.

Owners are worried about bleeding too much. According to Forbes, 12 teams lost money last season. http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/12/10/forbes-12-nba-teams-lost-money-last-season/ I remember Stern had to open up an emergency fund to help owners get by this year and possibly the next all on league initiated credit.


Stern told the Associated Press on Tuesday that revenue would decrease in large part because of lower ticket prices and scaled back sponsorship deals.http://blog.pennlive.com/fanbox/2009/07/david_stern_most_nba_teams_not.html
Sponsorships should probably be at the lowest they've been in 7-8 years and possibly even the lowest in the past decade. This is probably a bad time to market your product through an NBA team. People who have the money are probably too busy working to continue having money while those who have the time to watch may not be the group that has expendable income at the moment. You'd figure a lot of those companies would have to cut out the excess product lines. Coca Cola has put a halt on ****ing around with the coke formula. Nike comes out with new shoes now and then but not coming out with those tiny niche specific shoes. Everyone is trying to reduce the risk and try to break even. Hopefully, Derek and Keyon figure this one out.

TopsyTurvy
02-12-2010, 11:43 AM
The NBA is fast approaching a potential work stoppage. Owners are whispering about contraction to spread more talent around and grousing about mid level players being paid to much. Jerome James contract being a prime example of what is wrong with the current situation. I am fully behind the players getting a majority of the compensation, but if it comes at the expense and well being of the business model - concessions have to be made.

Chronz
02-12-2010, 03:30 PM
Im really divided on this but I side with the owners. The league cannot continue operating under these rules, too many dumb owners need protection from themselves. There are only a select few players who are truly worth the investment but why not just make salaries based on attendance figures, merchandise sales, and production? If a player is no longer producing like a star why should he continue to get paid like one?

Im starting to dislike Fisher, it sounds as if hes not willing to budge. I hope the lockout happens, I love the game, but I hate what the players are doing to it. Or atleast their contracts

Highlight
02-12-2010, 05:42 PM
I hope they can get something sorted, the last thing any of us wants is a lock-out.

Agreed. Another lockout would be terrible. :(

Tony_Starks
02-12-2010, 05:54 PM
The owners are idiots. Nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to sign some of these ridiculous contracts. Nobody forced them to not put a competitive team on the floor to draw in fans and make the playoffs giving them more money. Nobody forced them to make incredibly stupid free agent signings of players that were obviously just playing for a new contract.

So now they're basically saying: "because we screwed up and we're basically incompetent we need to restructure this whole thing so even if we're still idiots will make a lot more money." no bueno.

Wilson
02-12-2010, 08:41 PM
Im really divided on this but I side with the owners. The league cannot continue operating under these rules, too many dumb owners need protection from themselves. There are only a select few players who are truly worth the investment but why not just make salaries based on attendance figures, merchandise sales, and production? If a player is no longer producing like a star why should he continue to get paid like one?

Bill Simmons suggested something like that to David Stern, where if there is a 10% decrease in revenue then the value of players' contracts would go down 10% (and I'm assuming vice verca, I can't remember).

I think they should do it similar to the NFL's system, where there are a lot of performance based incentives. That way the money is right there for the players, but if they don't perform then it doesn't do any harm to the owners. There would need to be something worked out on how to deal with injuries, but I'm sure it could be done.

ARMIN12NBA
02-12-2010, 10:35 PM
Can you imagine the NFL and NBA being on lockouts at the same time? I would have so much more free time than I have now (not necessarily a good thing, not many things can be better than hanging out with your best friends, staying at home or going to a sports bar/restaurant, and watching a game).