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View Full Version : Do the Magic need Hedo as much as Hedo needs the Magic?



Raph12
02-01-2010, 07:43 PM
He was thought to be the guy to put the Toronto Raptors over the top, but so far he's had a lesser role with the Raps: his minutes are down, his percentages are down, his attempts are down, his assists are down, his rebounding is down, his points are down and he's the Raptors' least consistent player... Hedo Turkoglu has looked like just another guy for the Raptors this season and his contributions have been subpar to say the least. After a slow start, the Raptors look like they're finally putting everything together to win basketball games, but this is because of a collective effort, the Hedo that signed for the $50mil contract still hasn't shown up.

Last season the Magic were thought to be led by Hedo to the NBA Finals and he was considered to be one of the top free agents heading into the offseason. The Magic made him an offer which he turned down because he wanted more money and more years on the deal. Magic GM Otis Smith didn't want to sign Hedo for a long period of time, seeming as how he didn't want to commit to pay that much to a guy who is already 30 years old. So he went out and made a trade for Vince Carter and let Hedo find himself a new home. Hedo went on to sign a 5 year, $50mil contract with the Toronto Raptors.

Now Vince has definitely disapointed everyone in Orlando so far, but despite his poor play and all of the suspensions, injuries and chemistry issues, the Magic still have the Second best record in the East (finished Third last season) behind the strong play of their franchise player Dwight Howard. Playing in Toronto, Hedo has been forgotten by most of the league and media, except for a bunch of Raptors' fans who want his head on a stick.

So who really needed whom? Do the Magic need Hedo as much as Hedo needs the Magic?

igPay atinLay
02-01-2010, 07:47 PM
You can replace Hedo via trade, free agency, or draft...he's defiantly a piece but not an irreplaceable one.

slapnutz69
02-01-2010, 08:00 PM
******** thread

Raps18-19 Champ
02-01-2010, 08:01 PM
Magic need someone who can be great at the pick and role and distribute well(Hedo).

Raptors need someone who can score in the high teens from the wing(Carter).

Of course no chance they get traded.

vash9
02-01-2010, 08:03 PM
Ball.

that's it.

Kakaroach
02-01-2010, 08:06 PM
Baaaallllllll.

Seriously though, I think they each thrive with the other. Hedo fits the system and the system needs Hedo.

LanceUpperCut
02-01-2010, 08:06 PM
Hedo can't find his stroke but does everything else as good as expected when he finds it he will be fine.

td0tsfinest
02-01-2010, 08:06 PM
I think the Magic need Hedo more than Hedo needs the Magic. Though Hedo's productions are down, the Raptors are playing well. There is some hate and he could do more but he's contributing to a winning team.

The Magic have become a worse team with the loss of Turk. A lot of people believed that with the additions of VC, J-Will, Brandon Bass and Matt Barnes, it would compensate for the loss of Hedo. Even though the team is 2nd in the east, you could see there's a difference in the magics play.

tr3ymill3r
02-01-2010, 08:07 PM
I believe that if Carter and Hedo swapped spots both teams would benefit from it. It's pretty funny how things like that work out.

ldc62
02-01-2010, 08:10 PM
I believe that if Carter and Hedo swapped spots both teams would benefit from it. It's pretty funny how things like that work out.

Do you even watch the Raptors? Hedo is fitting in pretty well, its just that his shots are not falling. Hes still a good play maker. As a raptor fan a want no part in VC. THis guy is washed up.

Fury
02-01-2010, 08:12 PM
carter is better than hedo plain and simple..always have been always will be

smith&wesson
02-01-2010, 08:16 PM
i think its both. hedo needs orlando, he needs dwight howard to set those hard screens for him... he ran the offence in orlando while jameer nelson played great off of the ball.
turk was a true point forward in orlando who found touches for howard, lewis, nelson ect...

now on the flip side orlando is still 2nd seed in the east and are doing it with out vince or turk. maybe they didnt need either of them. maybe turks absence will show more signifigance in the play offs. one things for sure though the magic really didnt and dont need carter they are acomplishing everything thus far with out his help.

go figure.

i have a feeling carter expire next year and be released to free agency. orlando will use the cap space on someone they can use. hey if they really want they can trade for hedo back. give us piutrus and ryan for turk. deal >???

because toronto in a similar situation is acomplishing alot with out hedo's help too.

i think toronto and orlando are both doing well with out the help of theyre big time free agency aquisitions. maybe turk and vince need to both go to new york and fail together as a cohesive unit.


haha, just kidding, i actually like hedo on the raps. he is like a glue guy his numbers are down but he has definatly been helping toronto win latley.

Raph12
02-01-2010, 08:17 PM
I think the Magic need Hedo more than Hedo needs the Magic. Though Hedo's productions are down, the Raptors are playing well. There is some hate and he could do more but he's contributing to a winning team.

The Magic have become a worse team with the loss of Turk. A lot of people believed that with the additions of VC, J-Will, Brandon Bass and Matt Barnes, it would compensate for the loss of Hedo. Even though the team is 2nd in the east, you could see there's a difference in the magics play.

How are the Magic worse if they're 2nd in the East? They beat Boston healthy twice this season, are 3-0 vs the Hawks and played well against LA, plus they've won 6 of their last 7 games. The Magic finished 3rd last season, plus if Boston was healthy and Cleveland had Shaq, they'd be lucky to take the second round series to 7 games again. Last season's Magic would not make the Finals this season, this year's Magic looks to have a legitimate chance.

He's contributing to a winning team no doubt, but he'll be 35 by the end of his contract and at $10+mil a year for a 30 year old already on the decline, that's WAY too damn much. The Magic would be better this season if he resigned, but they're better off without his contract for the next 5 seasons.

DAL*CWB
02-01-2010, 08:18 PM
hedo doesn't care about minutes, stats, or wins, that why he left orlando for toranto, he just wanted to live in toronto regardless of them being a good team or not

Jamiecballer
02-01-2010, 08:21 PM
i think they were both perfectly suited for each other. how else to explain such a spike in numbers the last 2 years? hedo had never played the point forward role near as extensively until Stan Van Gundy took over, and he had the perfect point guard in Nelson who is a more accomplished scorer than ballhandler.

neither side appreciated how much they needed each other but at least the magic can retool their system and move on. Hedo on the other hand might not find another setup that cushy for the rest of his career.

thescore53
02-01-2010, 08:24 PM
hedo doesn't care about minutes, stats, or wins, that why he left orlando for toranto, he just wanted to live in toronto regardless of them being a good team or not


wow you spelled Toronto correctly and incorrectly in the same sentence i think he cares a min

Raph12
02-01-2010, 08:26 PM
i think they were both perfectly suited for each other. how else to explain such a spike in numbers the last 2 years? hedo had never played the point forward role near as extensively until Stan Van Gundy took over, and he had the perfect point guard in Nelson who is a more accomplished scorer than ballhandler.

neither side appreciated how much they needed each other but at least the magic can retool their system and move on. Hedo on the other hand might not find another setup that cushy for the rest of his career.

This is exactly how I feel about the situation.

smith&wesson
02-01-2010, 08:31 PM
i think they were both perfectly suited for each other. how else to explain such a spike in numbers the last 2 years? hedo had never played the point forward role near as extensively until Stan Van Gundy took over, and he had the perfect point guard in Nelson who is a more accomplished scorer than ballhandler.

neither side appreciated how much they needed each other but at least the magic can retool their system and move on. Hedo on the other hand might not find another setup that cushy for the rest of his career.

X2 :nod:

smith&wesson
02-01-2010, 08:33 PM
This is exactly how I feel about the situation.

Hey look at that ralphie we agree on somthing :D

Raph12
02-01-2010, 08:40 PM
Hey look at that ralphie we agree on somthing :D

IT'S RAPHIE!!! :mad:

And yeah I guess we do lol :cheers:

smith&wesson
02-01-2010, 08:48 PM
IT'S RAPHIE!!! :mad:

And yeah I guess we do lol :cheers:

HAHA ok sorry raphie my bad lol

Raph12
02-01-2010, 08:57 PM
HAHA ok sorry raphie my bad lol

It's all good, you wouldn't believe how many people make that mistake.

RadiantShot
02-01-2010, 09:01 PM
Raph, we all know you just misspelled your name when you were signing up for PSD...

JasonJohnHorn
02-01-2010, 09:08 PM
I'm not sure the Hedo was supposed to put Toronto "over the top". The Raps gave up Marion in free agency, and signed Turkaglu. He's a better fit for the Raptors, and they are playing better with him in the line-up, even if he is inconsistent.

Hedu thrived in SVG's line-up/system, just as he would thrive in Popovic's system. He's a team player who can handle the ball, is a great shooter and will make the extra pass. He plays better in a system that focuses on team play. He would have been a great fit in the 04-07 Pistons as well. Its the type of game he has.

The way I see it, the Magic and Raptors are both higher in the standings than they were last year so their offseason moves have been working pretty well for them, though I'm inclinded to believe both players are inconsistent with their current teams and the Raptor's success is more about Bosh's excellent play (workin' his @$$ off for that max contract) and Orlando's ability to play fairly consistently as a team while Boston has been slightly inconsistent.

IversonIsKrazy
02-01-2010, 11:16 PM
i want to see a Hedo for VC trade, I think it would benefit and revive both careers, and I would love to see VC in red n white again!!

ManRam
02-01-2010, 11:20 PM
I'm as big of a Hedo fan as there is. I think it's clear he was a better fit in Orlando than he is in Toronto. If it's not, you need to get your eye's checked. I remember telling my dad after we lost the Finals that if we lost Hedo, I'd cry. I didn't cry, but in hindsight, I wish I did. I miss the man.

I don't think we need him, but without any hesitation, I'd take him over Vince on this team any day of the week. I thought Vince would be more of a go-to scorer, and stop our scoring droughts from happening so frequently. He's been as inconsistent and as much of a non go-to scorer as there is in the league.

SA5195
02-01-2010, 11:21 PM
The Magic need Hedo badly. I saw a couple of games, and it isn't the same without Hedo.

But I still want him in Toronto :D

He's only struggling offensively. But everything else IMO is fine with him.

heatking
02-01-2010, 11:26 PM
hedo for carter :D:confused::confused:

smith&wesson
02-01-2010, 11:41 PM
hedo for carter :D:confused::confused:

i dont think that would fly.

but hedo for beasley could be interesting :rolleyes:

smith&wesson
02-01-2010, 11:42 PM
It's all good, you wouldn't believe how many people make that mistake.


your sigs pretty cool man, how did you make that ?

RaptorizedKevin
02-01-2010, 11:48 PM
YES TRADE HIM BACK TO ORLANDO
TRADE INCLUDE TORONTO ORLANDO WASHINGOn

Toronto Gets:
Caron Butler

ORlando get:

Hedo Turkoglu

Washingonton gets:
Patrick obryant
6 mil TRADE EXCEPTION
anothony johnbson


this trade gives orlando back the piece that got them to the finals. this gives toronto a person who can create off the ball with only a 2 year contract. this saves washington money. GET IT DONE BC (Y) and this will not effect chemistry because butler creates off the ball. unllike hedo who hogs the ball to be effective. he said it himself " BALL" i got nothing else to say,

ManRam
02-01-2010, 11:52 PM
YES TRADE HIM BACK TO ORLANDO
TRADE INCLUDE TORONTO ORLANDO WASHINGOn

Toronto Gets:
Caron Butler

ORlando get:

Hedo Turkoglu

Washingonton gets:
Patrick obryant
6 mil TRADE EXCEPTION
anothony johnbson


this trade gives orlando back the piece that got them to the finals. this gives toronto a person who can create off the ball with only a 2 year contract. this saves washington money. GET IT DONE BC (Y) and this will not effect chemistry because butler creates off the ball. unllike hedo who hogs the ball to be effective. he said it himself " BALL" i got nothing else to say,

That will never, ever, ever, ever happen. The only way we'd possibly take Hedo back is if we can dump Vince's contract off somewhere. That isn't gonna happen. His value is basically zero right now.

Can we stop the Hedo back to Orlando and Vince back to Toronto talk. It isn't gonna happen.

smith&wesson
02-02-2010, 12:08 AM
That will never, ever, ever, ever happen. The only way we'd possibly take Hedo back is if we can dump Vince's contract off somewhere. That isn't gonna happen. His value is basically zero right now.

Can we stop the Hedo back to Orlando and Vince back to Toronto talk. It isn't gonna happen.


x2.

it will never ever happen. i dont even think any one in orlando or toronto want it to happen

ManRam
02-02-2010, 12:11 AM
[/B]


x2.

it will never ever happen. i dont even think any one in orlando or toronto want it to happen

I wouldn't even make a Vince for Hedo straight up swap, even though there is no doubt in my mind we'd improve because of it. Vince's contract sucks, but we can dump him after next year...or trade him as an expiring for something good. Hedo will be making 10M+ the next 4 years...no thank you.

I can't imagine a Raptor's fan expecting to win a playoff series this year would want Vince over Hedo. I can't imagine any team wanting Vince.

SteveNash
02-02-2010, 01:13 AM
How are the Magic worse if they're 2nd in the East? They beat Boston healthy twice this season, are 3-0 vs the Hawks and played well against LA, plus they've won 6 of their last 7 games. The Magic finished 3rd last season, plus if Boston was healthy and Cleveland had Shaq, they'd be lucky to take the second round series to 7 games again. Last season's Magic would not make the Finals this season, this year's Magic looks to have a legitimate chance.

Because they were 39-13 last year. Magic were a one year wonder, they ain't making it back to the Finals with this group.

Raph12
02-02-2010, 02:01 AM
your sigs pretty cool man, how did you make that ?

I didn't, my buddy made it for me.


The Magic need Hedo badly. I saw a couple of games, and it isn't the same without Hedo.

But I still want him in Toronto :D

He's only struggling offensively. But everything else IMO is fine with him.

I'm sure they need Hedo badly, 2nd place is just not good enough, they need to win 82 games straight!


Because they were 39-13 last year. Magic were a one year wonder, they ain't making it back to the Finals with this group.

That's a stupid comparison, the league as a whole is a lot stronger this season. Almost each and every team has upgraded their roster and the younger guys are growing up and developing into better players as well. Now also factor in all of the suspensions, injuries and chemistry issues and then tell me how having a 32-16 record in the league today is worse than a 39-13 record in the league last season. We both know the Magic of last season would've gotten ran over if Boston was healthy or if Cleveland had Shaq. This season's Magic would beat last season's just because of Dwight's improvement alone, then you could factor in the addition of Barnes, J-Will, Anderson and Redick's imrovement and you can easily tell that they are a stronger team this season. Plus I think eventually, Carter will pick up his poor shooting and start producing more, maybe in a 6th man role off the bench.

Btw, the Lakers, Cavaliers and Celtics also have worse records than they did last season, are you saying each team got that much worse?

SteveNash
02-02-2010, 08:46 AM
That's a stupid comparison, the league as a whole is a lot stronger this season. Almost each and every team has upgraded their roster and the younger guys are growing up and developing into better players as well. Now also factor in all of the suspensions, injuries and chemistry issues and then tell me how having a 32-16 record in the league today is worse than a 39-13 record in the league last season. We both know the Magic of last season would've gotten ran over if Boston was healthy or if Cleveland had Shaq. This season's Magic would beat last season's just because of Dwight's improvement alone, then you could factor in the addition of Barnes, J-Will, Anderson and Redick's imrovement and you can easily tell that they are a stronger team this season. Plus I think eventually, Carter will pick up his poor shooting and start producing more, maybe in a 6th man role off the bench.

Btw, the Lakers, Cavaliers and Celtics also have worse records than they did last season, are you saying each team got that much worse?

There's no way to really measure how much better a league has become, especially midway through the season. What you can measure is the W/L record of the Magic, which is worse this year. Not going to feel sorry for the Magic having Rashard suspended for cheating. What are these young guys the Magic acquired? And if all Orlando needed was some time to gel, then why have they played terribly in January? Is it because of a measly 3 game win streak that they finally got it?

Carter is terrible and getting worse. The Magic should have looked for a better option, they need to make a trade, a big trade if they want to get back to the Finals.

mikantsass
02-02-2010, 09:40 AM
Hedo dont need the magic, he got his $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

but the Magic despirately need hedo back

Raph12
02-02-2010, 11:05 AM
There's no way to really measure how much better a league has become, especially midway through the season. What you can measure is the W/L record of the Magic, which is worse this year. Not going to feel sorry for the Magic having Rashard suspended for cheating. What are these young guys the Magic acquired? And if all Orlando needed was some time to gel, then why have they played terribly in January? Is it because of a measly 3 game win streak that they finally got it?

Carter is terrible and getting worse. The Magic should have looked for a better option, they need to make a trade, a big trade if they want to get back to the Finals.

The league has become better when more teams are competing;
Ie: Last season, the dropoff from the 9th team in the West to the 10th was huge, but this season, it is competitive all the way from the 3rd seed to the 11th

No one is asking you to feel sorry for them, but considering that Nelson was out 16 games, Lewis out 10, Carter out 7 and Anderson out 8, then factor in the fact that they got 5 new guys they need to get accustomed to on the team... and 2nd place in the East sounds a lot better now doesn't it.

The Magic have won 6 of their last 7 with their only loss a 16pt comeback win by Memphis and significant wins over Boston, Atlanta and Charlotte. They have two weak teams to play this week and then they play the Celtics on Sunday, Hornets on Monday, Bulls on Wednesday and Cavs on Thursday, so we'll have a better feel of how good they are just before the Allstar break.

You're right when you said Carter has played terrible, but he's untradeable at this point and making a big trade with 80m already on the payroll would be pretty stupid. They may have to play this season out and look at their options next season when they have Carter's expiring and Gortat is out of the base year of his contract.

Raph12
02-02-2010, 11:06 AM
Hedo dont need the magic, he got his $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

but the Magic despirately need hedo back

You're right... beating your saggy Celtics just isn't the same without him.

Chronz
02-02-2010, 02:47 PM
I dont really think Hedo is struggling, this is what we shouldve expected. He was a pointforward joining a team with a natural PG and no defensive support so his defensive shortcomings were bound to be exposed. Hes not chucking as much but hes still creating and atleast hes upped his efficiency per possession. Vince is doing the exact opposite, hes hogging it more than he ever has, creating less for his teammates than he ever has, and shooting a horrible rate.

Hedo would be a better fit with the Magic but I dont think hes done bad in Toronto, if you were expecting more from him (like the magical ability to make clutch shots) then your not being realistic.

Jamiecballer
02-02-2010, 04:03 PM
you're right but Bryan Colangelo must have thought otherwise because nobody in their right mind pays 53 million for Hedo the 2000-2006 version. surely he wanted Hedo 2007-2009 for that money.

Chronz
02-02-2010, 04:11 PM
you're right but Bryan Colangelo must have thought otherwise because nobody in their right mind pays 53 million for Hedo the 2000-2006 version. surely he wanted Hedo 2007-2009 for that money.

Ever since hes been a Magic hes been money, I liked 2006 Hedo, his initial year was meh but 06, 08 and last year have been his best seasons.

uncleben989
02-02-2010, 05:31 PM
the magic are a worse team than last year, and dont give me that 2nd in the east bullcrap. if you watch them play you can tell they are not the same team. they relied heavily on hedo for thos matchup problems during their run in the playoffs, a luxury which they do not have now.

ink
02-02-2010, 05:32 PM
the magic are a worse team than last year, and dont give me that 2nd in the east bullcrap. if you watch them play you can tell they are not the same team. they relied heavily on hedo for thos matchup problems during their run in the playoffs, a luxury which they do not have now.

Exactly as predicted. But I'd like to see if they can overcome the problems by the end of the year.

Raph12
02-02-2010, 10:21 PM
the magic are a worse team than last year, and dont give me that 2nd in the east bullcrap. if you watch them play you can tell they are not the same team. they relied heavily on hedo for thos matchup problems during their run in the playoffs, a luxury which they do not have now.

Lmao that is just plain stupid... even though they don't have Hedo to provide the matchup problems, they now have Redick producing and Dwight playing fundamentally sound in the low post able to create for himself and teammates in iso situations. Carter played well tonight, if he can produce even 10-15 ppg on 45% shooting, the Magic have as good as chance to return to the Finals as anyone else.

This season's Magic is better than last season's without a doubt, if you watched the Magic play last season, the only reason they got as far as they did was because Boston didn't have KG and Cleveland didn't have anyone who could contain Dwight.

Last season's Magic would get torn up in the playoffs this year, the team this season will have a legitimate chance.

SteveNash
02-03-2010, 12:42 AM
The league has become better when more teams are competing;
Ie: Last season, the dropoff from the 9th team in the West to the 10th was huge, but this season, it is competitive all the way from the 3rd seed to the 11th

No one is asking you to feel sorry for them, but considering that Nelson was out 16 games, Lewis out 10, Carter out 7 and Anderson out 8, then factor in the fact that they got 5 new guys they need to get accustomed to on the team... and 2nd place in the East sounds a lot better now doesn't it.

The Magic have won 6 of their last 7 with their only loss a 16pt comeback win by Memphis and significant wins over Boston, Atlanta and Charlotte. They have two weak teams to play this week and then they play the Celtics on Sunday, Hornets on Monday, Bulls on Wednesday and Cavs on Thursday, so we'll have a better feel of how good they are just before the Allstar break.

You're right when you said Carter has played terrible, but he's untradeable at this point and making a big trade with 80m already on the payroll would be pretty stupid. They may have to play this season out and look at their options next season when they have Carter's expiring and Gortat is out of the base year of his contract.

Parity does not equal a stronger league. It could mean that the teams are equally good, equally bad, or equally average.

They beat a terrible Indiana team, terrible Sacramento team, got forced into overtime against Charlotte, lost to Memphis, barely beat the Celtics who are playing terrible right now, beat Atlanta their only solid win though they always match up well against them, and beat terrible Detroit and Milwaukee teams. Oh and 5 of those games were at home.

No one will want Carters expiring during the offseason. Gortat isn't going to bring much in. Rashard signing was a death sentence to the franchise.

Raph12
02-03-2010, 01:42 AM
Parity does not equal a stronger league. It could mean that the teams are equally good, equally bad, or equally average.

They beat a terrible Indiana team, terrible Sacramento team, got forced into overtime against Charlotte, lost to Memphis, barely beat the Celtics who are playing terrible right now, beat Atlanta their only solid win though they always match up well against them, and beat terrible Detroit and Milwaukee teams. Oh and 5 of those games were at home.

No one will want Carters expiring during the offseason. Gortat isn't going to bring much in. Rashard signing was a death sentence to the franchise.

They put up a good fight against LA behind Dwight's strong performance and lost because they didn't go to him as much late; they pounded the Pacers and Kings; were up 11 late against Charlotte when Stan subbed off his starters, then they made a run and the Magic took care of them in OT; they were up 16 against Memphis and gave the game away when Stan took out Dwight in the second and didn't go to him late; they cameback to beat the Celts as soon as Howard started getting the ball more and they beat the Hawks, Pistons and Bucks convincingly. You know what all of these games have in common?... Dwight was tearing it up, seems like when he anchors the offense, they win games, I said this umpteen times and people critisized me.

Dwight's stats throughout the last 9 games:
22.2ppg-14.2rpg-1.4apg-1.3spg-3.9bpg

They'll play Washington at home before they play: @Boston on Sunday, at home vs NO on Monday, @Chitown on Wednesday and @Cleveland on Thursday; 4 games in 5 nights and the 3 on the road are against two elite teams and one rising team as well. I'll wait on calling this team better or worse for the time being until the Allstar break.

They may not want VC's expiring during the offseason, but teams will want it before the trade deadline, Gortat can bring in something decent or could just be a throw-in for the VC-trade.

Lakersfan2483
02-03-2010, 02:19 AM
The Magic definitely miss the services of one Hedo Turkolgu as Carter is a terrible fit for their team.

xXmoe.ronXx
02-03-2010, 03:41 AM
How are the Magic worse if they're 2nd in the East?

Well.....ya know the Magic were first in the East last year. Just sayin'....

SteveNash
02-03-2010, 08:35 AM
They put up a good fight against LA behind Dwight's strong performance and lost because they didn't go to him as much late; they pounded the Pacers and Kings; were up 11 late against Charlotte when Stan subbed off his starters, then they made a run and the Magic took care of them in OT; they were up 16 against Memphis and gave the game away when Stan took out Dwight in the second and didn't go to him late; they cameback to beat the Celts as soon as Howard started getting the ball more and they beat the Hawks, Pistons and Bucks convincingly. You know what all of these games have in common?... Dwight was tearing it up, seems like when he anchors the offense, they win games, I said this umpteen times and people critisized me.

Dwight's stats throughout the last 9 games:
22.2ppg-14.2rpg-1.4apg-1.3spg-3.9bpg

So Dwight has a 9 game stretch where he turns the ball over 4.5 times a game and suddenly the Magic are back?


They'll play Washington at home before they play: @Boston on Sunday, at home vs NO on Monday, @Chitown on Wednesday and @Cleveland on Thursday; 4 games in 5 nights and the 3 on the road are against two elite teams and one rising team as well. I'll wait on calling this team better or worse for the time being until the Allstar break.

Boston isn't elite right now, NO has no Paul, Chi is a below average. Orlando will have to prove themselves better over a long period, not because they had a nice stretch.


They may not want VC's expiring during the offseason, but teams will want it before the trade deadline, Gortat can bring in something decent or could just be a throw-in for the VC-trade.

Not if they believe they're headed to a lockout. Gortat will bring in midlevel talent, not enough to make Orlando a championship contender.

Raph12
02-03-2010, 12:32 PM
So Dwight has a 9 game stretch where he turns the ball over 4.5 times a game and suddenly the Magic are back?

1st off, it's 4.2 stop exaggerating... And having Dwight anchor the offense has resulted in wins, as the season continues and he gets used to touching the ball this much, he'll gradually learn to turn it over less. Plus, a "W" is a "W" they'll take 4.2 tpg if it results in winnning 7 of 9 games.


Boston isn't elite right now, NO has no Paul, Chi is a below average. Orlando will have to prove themselves better over a long period, not because they had a nice stretch.

Boston's defense is still elite, if Pierce doesn't play that changes things; they play NO on a back-to-back so fatigue will play a factor there; Chicago has been surging of late winning 5 straight games on the road against +500 teams (NBA record) and Cleveland is Cleveland, while the Magic will be at their home on the 4th game in 5 nights. If they pick up the win there without shooting over 60% from the floor, they're back. But yeah, we'll see how they do for the rest of the season to officially say they're better than they were last season.


Not if they believe they're headed to a lockout. Gortat will bring in midlevel talent, not enough to make Orlando a championship contender.

We'll take that if it comes, but those are the expectations right now. Plus, Dwight's development alone can make them championship-caliber. IMO they are the only ones who could challenge Cleveland in the playoffs, so who are we really comparing them to?

Chronz
02-03-2010, 01:55 PM
The Magic definitely miss the services of one Hedo Turkolgu as Carter is a terrible fit for their team.

I dont think they miss Hedo so much as they miss Vince

MagicDojo
02-03-2010, 02:42 PM
Hedo is playing the same as he did last year. He just doesnt have all the great players around him that he did last year to spread the floor for his drives and distract the defense. We will see what Orlando does the 2nd half of the season. They have hardly had any games with their starting five because of injuries and suspensions yet they are in 2nd. And Vince had a great game, inspite of a nagging injury, last night just 3 assists short of a triple double.

Raph12
02-03-2010, 02:45 PM
I dont think they miss Hedo so much as they miss Vince

Great point, I think that may be the biggest factor.

Chronz
02-03-2010, 03:17 PM
Hedo is playing the same as he did last year. He just doesnt have all the great players around him that he did last year to spread the floor for his drives and distract the defense. We will see what Orlando does the 2nd half of the season. They have hardly had any games with their starting five because of injuries and suspensions yet they are in 2nd. And Vince had a great game, inspite of a nagging injury, last night just 3 assists short of a triple double.
Agreed except, Hedo has more room to drive than he ever did in Orlando, hes just not in the same pecking order .

Chronz
02-03-2010, 03:20 PM
Great point, I think that may be the biggest factor.

Dont you love it how everyone is like see we told you Hedo was better, yet this is the Vince nobody expected. I mean it was made it clear that at 33 he was really pushing it as being an impact player but to become a D-Leaguer for a whole month is beyond any reasonable expectation. If he even regains abit of his former luster, the Hedo comparison is a joke. Hopefully last nights game is a sign of things returning to normal.

Put last years Vince in this years team and they are considerably better, this years Vince doesnt even help this years Nets.

Jays Claw
02-03-2010, 03:27 PM
In my opinion, Hedo Turkoglu has been decent for the Raptors.

Raph12
02-03-2010, 03:27 PM
Dont you love it how everyone is like see we told you Hedo was better, yet this is the Vince nobody expected. I mean it was made it clear that at 33 he was really pushing it as being an impact player but to become a D-Leaguer for a whole month is beyond any reasonable expectation. If he even regains abit of his former luster, the Hedo comparison is a joke. Hopefully last nights game is a sign of things returning to normal.

Put last years Vince in this years team and they are considerably better, this years Vince doesnt even help this years Nets.

You're on the money with this one, Vince isn't the same Vince, but he's not a D-Leaguer either, if we had the 2008-09 VC, we'd have the #1 seed at this point. VC has been horrible in January, he went from 19.1ppg on 41% shooting, to 8.7ppg on 28.6% shooting, he started February off the right way. With Dwight's offensive development, Barnes' intensity and Redick's improvement, if Carter can even be a 15-5-5 guy on about 45% shooting, the Magic will be elite and can challenge Cleveland for the #1 seed and in the playoffs.

Jays Claw
02-03-2010, 03:36 PM
Even though Hedo Turkoglu isn't scoring as much, he is doing a wonderful job distributing the ball. He is also doing an excellent job rebounding the ball. If he could be more consistent and selfish, then it wouldn't surprise me to see the Raptors playing at a high level.

Jamiecballer
02-03-2010, 05:27 PM
Even though Hedo Turkoglu isn't scoring as much, he is doing a wonderful job distributing the ball. He is also doing an excellent job rebounding the ball. If he could be more consistent and selfish, then it wouldn't surprise me to see the Raptors playing at a high level.

Huh??

Hedo has done a few things well for us but rebounding isn't one of them. this guy is a 6' 10 small forward averaging 4.5 rebounds a game. why do you say he has?

Chronz
02-03-2010, 07:50 PM
Huh??

Hedo has done a few things well for us but rebounding isn't one of them. this guy is a 6' 10 small forward averaging 4.5 rebounds a game. why do you say he has?

His rebound rate is where its always been at. So if he was rebounding before hes rebounding now. Really though for a SF he isnt all that good, but you know like they say Bosh takes all the rebounds, yet somehow the team is still a pretty poor rebounding team.

SteveNash
02-04-2010, 02:36 AM
1st off, it's 4.2 stop exaggerating... And having Dwight anchor the offense has resulted in wins, as the season continues and he gets used to touching the ball this much, he'll gradually learn to turn it over less. Plus, a "W" is a "W" they'll take 4.2 tpg if it results in winnning 7 of 9 games.

What will the Magic do when Howard disappears in the playoffs? His game is still to unrefined, he's inconstant. People have been crying about getting his touches, but do you really think SVG wouldn't go to him more if he was a more reliable player? The turnovers, the awkward shots he'll throw up, poor decision making. That's why Hedo was important last year and that's why Vince Carter needs to get it together.


We'll take that if it comes, but those are the expectations right now. Plus, Dwight's development alone can make them championship-caliber. IMO they are the only ones who could challenge Cleveland in the playoffs, so who are we really comparing them to?

Dwight has had 5 and a half years to develop. He has a low basketball IQ. He'll never be able to lead his team to a championship.

jdricks
02-04-2010, 10:39 AM
The Magic made a huge mistake not resigning him a very lucrative deal , because Vincanity isnt working out. He cant work in that offense that wants to get everyone involved to get 3 and allow for Howard to dominate the middle. All the Magic needed to add was a couple other free agents to that bench and there guaranteed another Finals appearance. I think the Raptors could have not done anything and just wait til 2010

Sly Guy
02-04-2010, 11:51 AM
carter is the next michael jordan.

Raph12
02-04-2010, 03:50 PM
The Magic made a huge mistake not resigning him a very lucrative deal , because Vincanity isnt working out. He cant work in that offense that wants to get everyone involved to get 3 and allow for Howard to dominate the middle. All the Magic needed to add was a couple other free agents to that bench and there guaranteed another Finals appearance. I think the Raptors could have not done anything and just wait til 2010

They were willing to go 3 years, with a team option on the 4th. Turk wanted 5 years and now TO is stuck with a 31 year old Turk on the decline who'll be paid over 10mil a year at the age of 35... Thanks but no thanks.

Raph12
02-04-2010, 04:00 PM
What will the Magic do when Howard disappears in the playoffs? His game is still to unrefined, he's inconstant. People have been crying about getting his touches, but do you really think SVG wouldn't go to him more if he was a more reliable player? The turnovers, the awkward shots he'll throw up, poor decision making. That's why Hedo was important last year and that's why Vince Carter needs to get it together.

Howard has been consistent when he gets touches, every game where they've force-fed him, he's put up big numbers and it usually resulted in Ws. I think nerves really hurt Dwight in the Finals and the inexperience shut him down. Dwight's proved he can handle the offensive load, as long as he can deter to his teammates when he's doubled, I look for Stan to go to this as long as it's working. He seems to be a lot more patient with his offensive game this year and if they continue to let him anchor the offense for the rest of the season going into the playoffs, he'll be ready when it counts. I do agree with you that if Vince doesn't play better, they won't beat Cleveland in a 7-game series, that's for sure.


Dwight has had 5 and a half years to develop. He has a low basketball IQ. He'll never be able to lead his team to a championship.

I disagree, his basketball IQ on the defensive end is unrivalled within centers and his offense has made great strides from last season to this season, he's never really had the room for his offensive game to grow in the past. If Stan keeps playing games inside-out and Dwight continues to work hard on his offensive game, I believe he could be a 25ppg guy. I think with the right guys around him and maybe a sidekick, like Kobe was to Shaq, he could easily lead a team to the promise land.

ko8e24
02-04-2010, 04:24 PM
the Magic need Hedo more than he needs them. trading for Carter was a big mistaken, and Orlando ain't goin nowhere.

And for a team who got to the finals, you only have a personnel change of maybe 1 or 2 players. Not 5 players like they have. They don't have that same chemistry as last season, and they're not playing as good bball as last season because they don''t hvae a guy in the 4th qtr with the ball in his hands (aka Turk)

Raph12
02-04-2010, 04:58 PM
the Magic need Hedo more than he needs them. trading for Carter was a big mistaken, and Orlando ain't goin nowhere.

And for a team who got to the finals, you only have a personnel change of maybe 1 or 2 players. Not 5 players like they have. They don't have that same chemistry as last season, and they're not playing as good bball as last season because they don''t hvae a guy in the 4th qtr with the ball in his hands (aka Turk)

I don't know why everyone is saying the Magic aren't going anywhere, they're 2nd in the East and have played really well agains the other Top 5 teams in the East.

The Magic are 2-1 vs the Celts, 3-0 vs the Hawks, 3-1 vs the Raps and 3-0 vs the Bobcats. In comparison, the Cavs are 0-1 vs the Celts, 2-0 vs the Hawks, 1-1 vs the Raps and 1-2 vs the Bobcats, considerably worse than the Magic vs the top teams in the East.

The Magic's only loss to the Cavs was without Lewis, 8 games into the season, on a second of a back-to-back and the 3rd game in 4 nights. The next game they play against the Cavs will be the 4th game in 5 nights on the road, so the real measuring-stick matchup will have to come after the Allstar weekend on the 21st of February.

Dwight's development on offense has been the difference this season for the Magic, Barnes has added the defensive intensity, while Redick, J-Will and Anderson have added firepower off the bench.

Seriously guys, start watching more Magic games and paying a bit more attention to them. Carter has played poorly in January, but I doubt he goes for 8.7ppg on 28.6% for the rest of the season.

THISISDAYEAR
02-04-2010, 07:26 PM
:facepalm: this thread.

JerzeyFresh
02-04-2010, 07:41 PM
Carter for Hedo perfect for both teams

King P
02-08-2010, 11:54 PM
**** hedo!!!!! Vince carter baby!!!!

Raph12
02-09-2010, 12:11 AM
**** hedo!!!!! Vince carter baby!!!!

48 points in 38 minutes... Now let's see Hedo do that! :p

*Superman*
02-09-2010, 12:15 AM
**** hedo!!!!! Vince carter baby!!!!


48 points in 38 minutes... Now let's see Hedo do that! :p

Damn right, this is why we got Vince, he is a real go to scorer. Hedo would never get 48, I mean NEVER

King P
02-09-2010, 12:32 AM
Vince >>>> Hedo

you mad???