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JordansBulls
01-29-2010, 05:23 PM
2009-2010 MVP Discussion Thread - Part I - Link (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430242)



Here is the New Thread of the MVP debate for this season.


NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/01/29/racetothemvp.week13/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)




1. LeBron James, Cavs
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
47 38.6 29.6 7.2 7.9 1.5 1.0 .505 .354 .775
Last Week's Rank - 1
A frantic meeting was held within The Race's walls after LeBron James scored only 12 points Wednesday against lowly Minnesota. Might this cost The King his top spot? After much deliberation, the verdict came down: Nah. James only needed to score 12 -- he passed for 11 assists, tattooed Corey Brewer with another of those caught-from-behind breakaway blocks and sat out the fourth quarter, well, because he could as Cleveland won for the sixth straight time. It's worth noting here that when James scores fewer than 20 points in a game this year, the Cavaliers are 5-0. Now that's efficiency.


2. Kobe Bryant, Lakers
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
46 38.4 28.3 5.5 4.8 1.7 0.3 .462 .321 .831
Last Week's Rank - 2
The Lakers' star began working on his second 25,000-point plateau, averaging 27.3 points, 9.6 rebounds and 8.0 assists in three games while shooting 53.7 percent. He helped L.A. improve to 3-2 on its lengthy Eastern trip.


3. Kevin Durant, Thunder
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
45 39.9 29.3 7.3 3.0 1.4 0.9 .479 .365 .873
Last Week's Rank - 3
The OKC star became the youngest player in NBA history to score 25 points in at least 19 consecutive games. But his 28 on 7-of-19 weren't enough to fend off Chicago, at home no less, as the Thunder lost its third in a row.


4. Tim Duncan, Spurs
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
41 32.5 19.9 10.8 3.2 0.5 1.8 .530 --- .747
Last Week's Rank - 6
The Spurs' inscrutable star shoots 34.0 percent (16-of-47) in a three-game stretch and ... moves up in The Race? Sure, since he drained an un-Duncan-like 80.5 percent of his free throws (29-of-36) in those games and grabbed 27 rebounds in a victory over Atlanta. San Antonio held the Hawks to 39.8 percent shooting and, led by Duncan, grabbed most (41 defensive rebounds) of the visitors' many misses.


5. Chris Bosh, Raptors
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
47 35.9 24.0 11.3 2.1 0.6 1.0 .520 .400 .787
Last Week's Rank - 8
If 34 double-doubles weren't already enough, Bosh made it clear he deserved an Eastern Conference All-Star roster spot -- probably a starting spot, if only Canada voted like China -- with 27 and 15 Thursday against New York and alleged coaches' snubbee David Lee.


6. Dwight Howard, Magic
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
46 34.9 17.5 13.2 1.5 1.2 2.6 .601 --- .600
Last Week's Rank - --
Shooting more free throws than field goals isn't something that happens much in this league. But it will when the guy involved hits his field goals (57.1 percent) almost as often as he sinks the supposedly easy ones (60.1). Howard averaged 18.7 points, 15.0 rebounds and, whoa, 5.7 blocks this week.


7. Dirk Nowitzki, Mavs
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
45 37.9 25.1 7.8 2.5 0.9 1.2 .476 .387 .888
Last Week's Rank - 5
Nowtizki slipped out of his special NBA status -- he had been the only guy averaging 25.0 points, 8.0 rebounds, 1.0 steals and 1.0 blocks -- when he grabbed only five boards (and shot 5-of-11) in Thursday's loss at Phoenix. He slips here a little, then, as well, though he did score 20 at New York last weekend in the most lopsided victory in Dallas franchise history.


8. Derrick Rose, Bulls
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
44 36.3 19.8 3.7 5.9 0.8 0.3 .477 .235 .751
Last Week's Rank - --
Before the Chicago point guard makes his All-Star debut, he gets a spot on the new committee-edition of The Race. Rose helped the Bulls to a season-best winning streak of four games and, after averaging 16.2 points in November and 20.4 in December, has been scoring at a 23.5 clip in January.


9. Steve Nash, Suns
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
48 33.5 18.5 3.1 11.0 0.5 0.2 .524 .442 .946
Last Week's Rank - 7
Nash still is on pace to hit his usual numbers -- 50 percent from the floor, 40 percent from the arc and 90 percent from the line -- for the fourth time, something no one else has done more than twice. Despite his 19 points and 11 assists vs. Dallas, Nash was a minus-1 -- the Suns' bench actually won that one.


10. Dwyane Wade, Heat
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
45 36.8 27.3 4.8 6.2 1.8 1.2 .467 .301 .757
Last Week's Rank - 10
The Race was poised to give Wade big ups after he shouldered responsibility for Miami's narrow loss to Cleveland -- that's what MVPs do, when they aren't scoring, starring and winning. But after he scored only two points in the second half against the Cavs, Wade got contained to four in the fourth quarter of the Heat's loss at Toronto.

RaptorsFanatic
01-29-2010, 05:35 PM
Damn. Winning does make a difference. From 11 to 5 in two weeks, Bosh is creeping up.

ManRam
01-29-2010, 05:37 PM
I said in the other thread that Bosh should be top 10. Not sure why Melo isn't up there. I'd put him ahead of Bosh...as so should Dirk. I can understand a 6-7 spot.

Good to see Dwight back on the list...he's definitely showing some signs that his offense might finally be arriving.

RaptorsFanatic
01-29-2010, 05:40 PM
I said in the other thread that Bosh should be top 10. Not sure why Melo isn't up there. I'd put him ahead of Bosh...as so should Dirk. I can understand a 6-7 spot.

Good to see Dwight back on the list...he's definitely showing some signs that his offense might finally be arriving.

Wow, never caught that. Melo is not in top 10?! This is debauchery.
How is that possible, they are the 2nd best team in the West, I am shocked.

Melo should be undoubtedly ahead of Rose, TD (others may complain), and Howard. Even Nash, matter of fact.

Jays Claw
01-29-2010, 05:56 PM
Chris Bosh. :clap:

SA5195
01-29-2010, 08:15 PM
Melo's injury slowed him down.

But he should IMO be ahead of Rose.

Rose has been kinda slow at the beggining. Now he's pretty good, but not MVP good IMO.

kozelkid
01-29-2010, 08:39 PM
Well he isn't MVP caliber regardless, at least not yet. However 8-10 and on don't matter. It's a rotating door. This list is more for MVP to their respective teams, and without Rose, the Bulls could very well be challenging the Nets for worst record. He has carried the Bulls past their last 4 teams, without him, we'd be 0-4. and 0-6 in this road trip. Melo not being top 10 is very puzzling though.

_KB24_
01-29-2010, 09:22 PM
Ok, if Rose is honestly going to get consideration, Z-Bo should atleast get mentioned.

ARMIN12NBA
01-29-2010, 09:28 PM
Kobe just had a pretty scary knee twist. It looks scary. Hopefully it isn't serious.

stawka
01-29-2010, 10:01 PM
Guess the knee twist was nothing, he's tearing it up lol

td0tsfinest
01-29-2010, 10:40 PM
it's a good list, I got nothing wrong with it.

alencp3
01-30-2010, 10:48 AM
Good list,maybe Z-Bo should have made it,but doesnt matter,Anthony injury slowed him down thats why he isnt in top 10. Im happy to see Durant and Bosh in top 5 they really deserve it!

kobe24>lebron23
01-30-2010, 03:17 PM
http://my.nba.com/cms/107758/kobe_vs_lebron

Kakaroach
01-30-2010, 05:20 PM
A little surprised to see no Melo or D. Will, other than that it looks good.

ko8e24
01-31-2010, 03:28 AM
Add Andre Miller to the list :D

kArSoN RyDaH
01-31-2010, 06:37 AM
kobes starting to adjust and play better with that broken finger and his back. well see if these change in a couple weeks. but where is melo? =O

JordansBulls
01-31-2010, 11:52 AM
A little surprised to see no Melo or D. Will, other than that it looks good.

Melo is missing too many games now.

Jays Claw
01-31-2010, 02:32 PM
^ Agreed.

Lakersfan2483
01-31-2010, 02:58 PM
Melo is missing too many games now.

I noticed that as well, it seems like he's out every other week.

Macedonian
01-31-2010, 03:05 PM
Bosh 5th ???????

Sweet!:)

Jahari Kavi
01-31-2010, 08:16 PM
i would've thought melo would be in this convo, but like others have mentioned he has missed too many games already...............right now "you know who" is the clear cut choice

ko8e24
01-31-2010, 08:39 PM
Kobe Klutch does it again! :clap:

IN BOSTON!

Baller1
01-31-2010, 09:57 PM
You guys can call me a homer all you want, but I truly think as Lebron and Kobe continue to run away with the MVP race... Durant is continuing to creep along side with them right now. Those three seem to be seperating from the pack, unfortunately Durant just can't compete due to team record and just the overall lack of support.

He's just murdering the Warriors right now (granted, it's the Warriors).

ManRam
01-31-2010, 10:01 PM
You guys can call me a homer all you want, but I truly think as Lebron and Kobe continue to run away with the MVP race... Durant is continuing to creep along side with them right now. Those three seem to be seperating from the pack, unfortunately Durant just can't compete due to team record and just the overall lack of support.

He's just murdering the Warriors right now (granted, it's the Warriors).

If the season ended today, OKC would not make the playoffs. The Thunder obviously need to make the playoffs for him to have a shot. A top 4 seed would get him legit consideration IMO. Otherwise, it's Kobe/LeBron...probably LeBron.

Baller1
01-31-2010, 10:04 PM
If the season ended today, OKC would not make the playoffs. The Thunder obviously need to make the playoffs for him to have a shot. A top 4 seed would get him legit consideration IMO. Otherwise, it's Kobe/LeBron...probably LeBron.

Yeah I know, that was basically my point. Even with a top 4 seed, I still don't think he would have much of a shot.

But, if people were to actually vote by the actual credentials of an "MVP", which is a players value to a team, I think Durant is right there with Lebron.

tredigs
02-01-2010, 01:25 AM
Yeah I know, that was basically my point. Even with a top 4 seed, I still don't think he would have much of a shot.

But, if people were to actually vote by the actual credentials of an "MVP", which is a players value to a team, I think Durant is right there with Lebron.

I have a different take. I think he would be RIGHT there with Lebron.

His hype would be HUGE at that point if he continues to play at the level he has been over the past couple months and they make it into the playoffs at a respectable seed. Although every seed is respectable in the west. This is a 23 win team from last year that's already won 26 games. Dude missed five total shots tonight on route to his 45points. Including free throws (16/21FG 11/11FT). That's just insane. I think we're watching a legend come into his own right now.

_KB24_
02-01-2010, 10:55 PM
Kobe just became the all-time leader in the most storied franchise in the history of the league.

29 points in 28 minutes so far....

kobe24>lebron23
02-01-2010, 11:19 PM
an mvp is -someone who breaks records,breaks hearts, is a leader, a man amongst boys and isnt afraid to risk his health for the team he has always loved and cherished ...an mvp is simply defined as Kobe "bean Bryant.... congrats kb24-black mamba-god-MVP

jim51990
02-01-2010, 11:40 PM
i think durant should be over kobe

ManRam
02-01-2010, 11:47 PM
an mvp is -someone who breaks records,breaks hearts, is a leader, a man amongst boys and isnt afraid to risk his health for the team he has always loved and cherished ...an mvp is simply defined as Kobe "bean Bryant.... congrats kb24-black mamba-god-MVP

Umm...MVP stands for most valuable player. Spin it however you want, it's LeBron's to lose.

Congrats on the record though. Definitely one of the best individual franchise-related records ever.

_KB24_
02-01-2010, 11:59 PM
Bean with another great game. 44 points on 16-28 shooting in 40 min.

TheKing23
02-02-2010, 12:06 AM
Bean with another great game. 44 points on 16-28 shooting in 40 min.

All in a loss...

Baller1
02-02-2010, 12:32 AM
Bean with another great game. 44 points on 16-28 shooting in 40 min.

It only took Durant 21 shots...






Just messin'.

ko8e24
02-02-2010, 12:35 AM
All in a loss...

Yes, in a loss, but losses happen during the course of a regular season, and 40+ pt games happen during the course of a regular season.

The real thing.....


Los Angeles Lakers All-Time Leading Scorer :clap:

_KB24_
02-02-2010, 12:40 AM
All in a loss...

Ok, your point?

TheKing23
02-02-2010, 12:57 AM
Ok, your point?

Although he had a great individual performance, he didn't lead his team to the win.

I assume, since you're posting his numbers in the MVP thread, you're making an argument for his MVP candidacy. His numbers mean nothing in a loss and I was stating that.

On another note, congratulations Kobe, fantastic achievement :clap:

_KB24_
02-02-2010, 01:01 AM
Although he had a great individual performance, he didn't lead his team to the win.

I assume, since you're posting his numbers in the MVP thread, you're making an argument for his MVP candidacy. His numbers mean nothing in a loss and I was stating that.

On another note, congratulations Kobe, fantastic achievement :clap:

If he puts up 100 points and the Lakers lose by two, does it not help his MVP candidacy? Any time you have a high scoring game, it helps, in a win or a loss, but the loss certainly does hurt.

ManRam
02-02-2010, 01:08 AM
If he puts up 100 points and the Lakers lose by two, does it not help his MVP candidacy? Any time you have a high scoring game, it helps, in a win or a loss, but the loss certainly does hurt.

So it helps and hurts. I'll take that.

Kobe will not win the MVP award unless the Lakers finish ahead of the Cavs. The loss hurts a lot more than it appears right now.

I know this wont sit well with Laker fans, but LeBron would never let both Bynum and Pau struggle as much as they did. Even when he puts up 28+ shots, he still dishes out 6, 10, 7 etc. assists. I really think he is the better team player. No player makes the players around him better as well as he does. Of course, that's my opinion, but I strongly believe it. Kobe kind of forgot about his teammates tonight.

kobe24>lebron23
02-02-2010, 01:25 AM
So it helps and hurts. I'll take that.

Kobe will not win the MVP award unless the Lakers finish ahead of the Cavs. The loss hurts a lot more than it appears right now.

I know this wont sit well with Laker fans, but LeBron would never let both Bynum and Pau struggle as much as they did. Even when he puts up 28+ shots, he still dishes out 6, 10, 7 etc. assists. I really think he is the better team player. No player makes the players around him better as well as he does. Of course, that's my opinion, but I strongly believe it. Kobe kind of forgot about his teammates tonight.


problem is kobe did and does set them up for shots but they just dont make em' plus bynum was in foul trouble... and this is why i dislike lebron cuz everyone always has to bring kobe down by mentioning lebron i mean damn what has he won that kobe hasnt :mad:

_KB24_
02-02-2010, 01:26 AM
So it helps and hurts. I'll take that.

Kobe will not win the MVP award unless the Lakers finish ahead of the Cavs. The loss hurts a lot more than it appears right now.

I know this wont sit well with Laker fans, but LeBron would never let both Bynum and Pau struggle as much as they did. Even when he puts up 28+ shots, he still dishes out 6, 10, 7 etc. assists. I really think he is the better team player. No player makes the players around him better as well as he does. Of course, that's my opinion, but I strongly believe it. Kobe kind of forgot about his teammates tonight.

How is it Kobe's fault if his teammates struggle? Is it Lebron's fault that Mo and Co. completely choked in the playoffs last year? Kobe is a GREAT team player. Kobe playing the P & R with Pau & Bynum over the past few games has been great for the team. They struggle a game, and suddenly, Kobe let his teammates struggle? Artest was having an amazing game and who does Kobe trust to take the final shot, wide open? Kobe was on fire the whole game and Pau and Bynum simply struggled.

And dishing up assists determines the greater team player? Marbury must be better team players than both as he averaged 8 throughout his career.

ManRam
02-02-2010, 01:40 AM
How is it Kobe's fault if his teammates struggle? Is it Lebron's fault that Mo and Co. completely choked in the playoffs last year? Kobe is a GREAT team player. Kobe playing the P & R with Pau & Bynum over the past few games has been great for the team. They struggle a game, and suddenly, Kobe let his teammates struggle? Artest was having an amazing game and who does Kobe trust to take the final shot, wide open? Kobe was on fire the whole game and Pau and Bynum simply struggled.

And dishing up assists determines the greater team player? Marbury must be better team players than both as he averaged 8 throughout his career.

My goal was to click on this and not respond. But it's too easy.

Bynum had 3 shots. He didn't struggle, he just didn't have any chances. No, it's not LeBron's fault they choked, because they just missed shots. LeBron kept passing it to them, probably to a fault actually. So maybe it was his fault.

Big men need the guards help to be successful. They can't dictate ball movement nearly as much as the guards can. Anytime Bynum and Pau are getting 10 combined shots in 56 combined minutes, you know something is wrong. And since Kobe dominated the ball handling tonight, you have to put some of the blame on him for not trying harder to get them involved. It's not entirely his fault, but, from the 2 quarters of replay I've watched so far, he wasn't trying very hard to do much but shoot.

ARMIN12NBA
02-02-2010, 01:43 AM
All in a loss...

I'm pretty sure the Lakers lost because the entire rest of the team didn't show up besides Ron Ron.

ManRam
02-02-2010, 01:48 AM
Oh...and Kobe didn't have a choice but to pass it to Ron on that last play. If he could have shot it, he would have. He should never turn down a clutch shot if he can take it. That's the good type of selfishness that every elite athlete has.

bchissie
02-02-2010, 01:51 AM
Melo has to be on this list. And Bosh and Rose over Nowitzki and Nash is an absolute joke.

bchissie
02-02-2010, 01:53 AM
Oh...and Kobe didn't have a choice but to pass it to Ron on that last play. If he could have shot it, he would have. He should never turn down a clutch shot if he can take it. That's the good type of selfishness that every elite athlete has.

are you saying kobe isnt elite because of that? your acting like kobe has never took a clutch shot in his life...let alone make one.

ChiSox219
02-02-2010, 01:54 AM
Didnt see the game but Gasol and Bynum combined for 10 attempts in 56 minutes. Kobe needs to pass the damn ball

LOL @ Marc getting more Points, Rebs, and Blocks than Pau

ARMIN12NBA
02-02-2010, 01:55 AM
So it helps and hurts. I'll take that.

Kobe will not win the MVP award unless the Lakers finish ahead of the Cavs. The loss hurts a lot more than it appears right now.

I know this wont sit well with Laker fans, but LeBron would never let both Bynum and Pau struggle as much as they did. Even when he puts up 28+ shots, he still dishes out 6, 10, 7 etc. assists. I really think he is the better team player. No player makes the players around him better as well as he does. Of course, that's my opinion, but I strongly believe it. Kobe kind of forgot about his teammates tonight.

:laugh2: I wish you watched the game. Kobe set Bynum up for a wide open dunk and he clanked it for no apparent reason. He set up Farmar and Fisher for wide open threes and they could not connect (1-8). Pau missed an open layup to my recollection. Lets say Bynum dunks the ball and Farmar hits 1 more three that Kobe hit him up with and Fisher finished one of threes that Kobe set him up with. Pau hits the routine layup and all of a sudden, Kobe has 7 assists and there is no way you can say Kobe "forgot about his teammates."

You must remember, assists is a two way street. Kobe set them up with fantastic passes (literally, wide open; the Grizzlies were blitzing him quite a bit), but they weren't finishing. Assists are a two way street, Manram.

ManRam
02-02-2010, 01:59 AM
are you saying kobe isnt elite because of that? your acting like kobe has never took a clutch shot in his life...let alone make one.

No. Not at all. Re-read my post bud. That was nothing but a compliment to Kobe. I'm just saying, he deferred by necessity tonight. It's not a bad or good thing, I'm just saying he didn't willingly pass it. He had absolutely no shot at a good shot. I said if he can ever get a shot off late in a game, he has to take it. He's too good not to. The best there is. Again, that's the good selfishness that every single elite pro athlete has.

kobe24>lebron23
02-02-2010, 02:00 AM
Didnt see the game but Gasol and Bynum combined for 10 attempts in 56 minutes. Kobe needs to pass the damn ball

LOL @ Marc getting more Points, Rebs, and Blocks than Pau

wow really ur gonna comment on kobe not passing the ball thats bs... its not his fault they dont make the shots...im over you haters... i really cant believe u cant accept kobe's greatness...like i said before dont hate him cuz u aint him

Zefflin
02-02-2010, 02:03 AM
Man, I strongly dislike the retardedness of some posters on this site. ::sigh:: Another awesome milestone tonight for KB. I like the trust he showed Ronny to hoast up the last shot. He should have made it, he didn't. Oh well.

Oh and btw...in 20 years the NBA logo will be Kobe shooting his fade-away...:clap:

ManRam
02-02-2010, 02:03 AM
:laugh2: I wish you watched the game. Kobe set Bynum up for a wide open dunk and he clanked it for no apparent reason. He set up Farmar and Fisher for wide open threes and they could not connect (1-8). Pau missed an open layup to my recollection. Lets say Bynum dunks the ball and Farmar hits 1 more three that Kobe hit him up with and Fisher finished one of threes that Kobe set him up with. Pau hits the routine layup and all of a sudden, Kobe has 7 assists and there is no way you can say Kobe "forgot about his teammates."

You must remember, assists is a two way street. Kobe set them up with fantastic passes (literally, wide open; the Grizzlies were blitzing him quite a bit), but they weren't finishing. Assists are a two way street, Manram.

I know assists are a two way street...that's why I hadn't said the word up until now. My whole point is, Bynum and Pau getting 10 shots in almost 60 minutes has to fall on the ball handlers. I saw it in you own forum by your own fans. Big men NEED their guards to get them the ball. They don't have the luxury of being able to handle it, bring it up the court, run around the perimeter etc.

I said nothing about the shooters. That falls into _KB24_'s point about LeBron and his shooters sucking in the ECF last year. That's when assists are a two way street and it is no one but the shooters' fault.

But 10 shots from your two big men, one of whom is a perennial all star, and the other obviously has all the ability to be one too someday, is mind blowing. How that happens makes no sense to me. THREE shots for Bynum. That falls on the guards more than it falls on him...especially from what I saw. One botched dunk doesn't change the fact no one gave him the time of day tonight.

It wasn't those two missing their shots (5/10 is a good percentage)...it's a matter of them not getting chances to shoot. That's my whole point. I'm not blaming anyone for it...I just don't get how a team could allow that to happen.

ARMIN12NBA
02-02-2010, 02:10 AM
I know assists are a two way street...that's why I hadn't said the word up until now. My whole point is, Bynum and Pau getting 10 shots in almost 60 minutes has to fall on the ball handlers. I saw it in you own forum by your own fans. Big men NEED their guards to get them the ball. They don't have the luxury of being able to handle it, bring it up the court, run around the perimeter etc.

I said nothing about the shooters. That falls into _KB24_'s point about LeBron and his shooters sucking in the ECF last year. That's when assists are a two way street and it is no one but the shooters' fault.

But 10 shots from your two big men, one of whom is a perennial all star, and the other obviously has all the ability to be one too someday, is mind blowing. How that happens makes no sense to me. THREE shots for Bynum. That falls on the guards more than it falls on him...especially from what I saw. One botched dunk doesn't change the fact no one gave him the time of day tonight.

It wasn't those two missing their shots (5/10 is a good percentage)...it's a matter of them not getting chances to shoot. That's my whole point. I'm not blaming anyone for it...I just don't get how a team could allow that to happen.

Two words: Foul Trouble. Bynum was in it all night and Gasol started off with it. They were playing soft and tentative. Z-Bo and Marc were pushing them and man-handling them on the block. It wasn't that they weren't getting the ball. They simply weren't able to get shots off or get in a good position on the block.

ManRam
02-02-2010, 02:13 AM
Two words: Foul Trouble. Bynum was in it all night and Gasol started off with it. They were playing soft and tentative. Z-Bo and Marc were pushing them and man-handling them on the block. It wasn't that they weren't getting the ball. They simply weren't able to get shots off or get in a good position on the block.

I'm aware they were in foul trouble. They still played 56 minutes. That doesn't justify not getting the ball to them. You can't blame them for a loss if they didn't ever get the chance to do anything. Even when in foul trouble, big men should get the ball. It's on the defensive end where being in foul trouble hurts...not the offensive end, at least not as much.

This has gotten a bit off topic. I think we've all made our points clear. It's also way passed my bed time. Tata for now.

ChiSox219
02-02-2010, 02:16 AM
I know assists are a two way street...that's why I hadn't said the word up until now. My whole point is, Bynum and Pau getting 10 shots in almost 60 minutes has to fall on the ball handlers. I saw it in you own forum by your own fans. Big men NEED their guards to get them the ball. They don't have the luxury of being able to handle it, bring it up the court, run around the perimeter etc.

I said nothing about the shooters. That falls into _KB24_'s point about LeBron and his shooters sucking in the ECF last year. That's when assists are a two way street and it is no one but the shooters' fault.

But 10 shots from your two big men, one of whom is a perennial all star, and the other obviously has all the ability to be one too someday, is mind blowing. How that happens makes no sense to me. THREE shots for Bynum. That falls on the guards more than it falls on him...especially from what I saw. One botched dunk doesn't change the fact no one gave him the time of day tonight.

It wasn't those two missing their shots (5/10 is a good percentage)...it's a matter of them not getting chances to shoot. That's my whole point. I'm not blaming anyone for it...I just don't get how a team could allow that to happen.

Exactly :clap:


What makes Lebron better than Kobe is James can score 26 points in the first quarter and when the opposition starts double/triple teaming him, he turns into a PG and distributes 11 assists to his [less] talented teammates.

kobe24>lebron23
02-02-2010, 02:17 AM
I'm aware they were in foul trouble. They still played 56 minutes. That doesn't justify not getting the ball to them. You can't blame them for a loss if they didn't ever get the chance to do anything. Even when in foul trouble, big men should get the ball. It's on the defensive end where being in foul trouble hurts...not the offensive end, at least not as much.

This has gotten a bit off topic. I think we've all made our points clear. It's also way passed my bed time. Tata for now.

4 wordsget off lebrons nuts

yes i might be biased to kobe 2 but atleast i accept facts but u just dont wanna accept that kobe tried involving everyone there just wasnt enough shots for everyone by the way its one game its not like it happens every other game

ManRam
02-02-2010, 02:20 AM
4 wordsget off lebrons nuts

yes i might be biased to kobe 2 but atleast i accept facts but u just dont wanna accept that kobe tried involving everyone there just wasnt enough shots for everyone by the way its one game its not like it happens every other game

Where, besides that one post, did I say anything about LeBron? I'm not on his nuts...I just don't get how what happened tonight happened. I'm not blaming Kobe, not at all. I would have liked to see him help get his two big men some more shots, and not dominate the ball possession the whole time, but he had a great game. Can't blame him for what he did. He had his team set up for a win, and set up Artest perfectly for a game winning attempt.

kobe24>lebron23
02-02-2010, 02:21 AM
lebron this lebron that omg get over it ur acting like he's the G.O.A.T.

let me tell u something u guys know kobe is still the best in the nba thats y u always have to include lebron because u dont want him to be less appreciated because of another player who is clearly better... i mean kobe made history yet lebron gets involved hahaha get over it kobe has a great game but u guys just cant appreciate him 4 once can u? o he didnt pass enough bs get over it the man is the best http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6iO04egBzc

_KB24_
02-02-2010, 02:26 AM
Exactly :clap:


What makes Lebron better than Kobe is James can score 26 points in the first quarter and when the opposition starts double/triple teaming him, he turns into a PG and distributes 11 assists to his [less] talented teammates.

Or it can be that he completely went cold from the floor and looked to pad his stats in a blowout.

WITZ
02-02-2010, 02:30 AM
lebron this lebron that omg get over it ur acting like he's the G.O.A.T.

let me tell u something u guys know kobe is still the best in the nba thats y u always have to include lebron because u dont want him to be less appreciated because of another player who is clearly better... i mean kobe made history yet lebron gets involved hahaha get over it kobe has a great game but u guys just cant appreciate him 4 once can u? o he didnt pass enough bs get over it the man is the best http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6iO04egBzc

Well if u want people to enjoy kobe's history making take that to the lakers forum,this is the MVP thread Lebron is #1 in the MVP polls so far thats how he gets brought up Oh and only ones who think Kobe is the still the best player in the league are disillusion laker fans.And Manram is probably one of the more unbiased posters on this site but since its trash talking ur beloved kobe u gotta defend him face the facts hes right.

ARMIN12NBA
02-02-2010, 02:35 AM
Or it can be that he completely went cold from the floor and looked to pad his stats in a blowout.

Didn't he go 0-7 right after that 1st quarter? :laugh2:

ChiSox219
02-02-2010, 02:47 AM
Or it can be that he completely went cold from the floor and looked to pad his stats in a blowout.

Maybe that's true, at least Lebron realizes when he's cold and instead of taking 30 shots with a couple assists he settles for 20 shots/10 assists and the W.

During the last 2.5 years the Lakers are 154-43 for a .782 winning % when Kobe attempts less than 30 FGs in regulation. They are 5-13 for a .385 winning percentage when he shoots 30+.

:speechless:

ARMIN12NBA
02-02-2010, 03:15 AM
Maybe that's true, at least Lebron realizes when he's cold and instead of taking 30 shots with a couple assists he settles for 20 shots/10 assists and the W.

During the last 2.5 years the Lakers are 154-43 for a .782 winning % when Kobe attempts less than 30 FGs in regulation. They are 5-13 for a .385 winning percentage when he shoots 30+.

:speechless:

Maybe (actually) because he starts to shoot a lot in the second half when he recognizes that the Lakers are playing lackadaisical and he needs to shoot them back into the game. Of course, it isn't going to work most of the time, but it is better than taking the guaranteed loss.

BTW--Where did you find this stat?

Also, about the "and the W." Who says Kobe isn't winning? He has been to the Finals twice and won a championship. It isn't like the guy is a loser. Give him some credit at least bro. I'm not saying to think he is a decent player since you seem to not think so. I am only saying to give him credit where credit it due. Kobe plays in a different system than Lebron so his numbers are going to be different and attained differently and vice versa (HUGE difference in philosophy between Triangle and MAJOR P&R reliance)

ARMIN12NBA
02-02-2010, 03:18 AM
I'm aware they were in foul trouble. They still played 56 minutes. That doesn't justify not getting the ball to them. You can't blame them for a loss if they didn't ever get the chance to do anything. Even when in foul trouble, big men should get the ball. It's on the defensive end where being in foul trouble hurts...not the offensive end, at least not as much.

This has gotten a bit off topic. I think we've all made our points clear. It's also way passed my bed time. Tata for now.

Not buying it at all. They were getting the ball, but were simply playing extremely tentative. They were getting out worked and for a big, it is difficult to get shots off when their position on the floor is poor. That is what happened tonight. Whenever they tried to get something going, they were outplayed and would kick the ball out to Kobe.

Lakersfan2483
02-02-2010, 03:36 AM
Despite tonight's loss, MVP type of performance from Kobe, 44pts on .57pct shooting from the field. He also set a great milestone tonight in becoming LA's all time leading scorer.

Lakersfan2483
02-02-2010, 03:43 AM
Not buying it at all. They were getting the ball, but were simply playing extremely tentative. They were getting out worked and for a big, it is difficult to get shots off when their position on the floor is poor. That is what happened tonight. Whenever they tried to get something going, they were outplayed and would kick the ball out to Kobe.

As you eluded to in your post, Gasol had plenty of touches tonight, but was very tenative tonight and Bynum was in serious foul trouble all night. When Kobe senses guys aren't on their game, he becames more aggressive and that's what he is suppossed to do. When the offense becomes stagnant, he picks up his play. We shouldn't have to explain this everytime, but so many people on here just read box scores and or don't understand the game and so you have the same comments like, "why was Kobe shooting so much?" Or, "how come Gasol didn't get more touches?" It becomes tiresome explaining this to a lot of people on PSD. It's simple, if you didn't watch the game and or don't understand the Lakers' philosophy, don't comment on it.

ARMIN12NBA
02-02-2010, 03:50 AM
As you eluded to in your post, Gasol had plenty of touches tonight, but was very tenative tonight and Bynum was in serious foul trouble all night. When Kobe senses guys aren't on their game, he becames more aggressive and that's what he is suppossed to do. When the offense becomes stagnant, he picks up his play. We shouldn't have to explain this everytime, but so many people on here just read box scores and or don't understand the game and so you have the same comments like, "why was Kobe shooting so much?" Or, "how come Gasol didn't get more touches?" It becomes tiresome explaining this to a lot of people on PSD. It's simple, if you didn't watch the game and or don't understand the Lakers' philosophy, people need not comment on the game.

Great points. Also, it is important to note the tough burden on Kobe. The Lakers don't have a facilitator or any player that can run the offense in the starting line-up other than Kobe. There is no legit PG (or Scottie-like player). When you watch the offensive sets, Kobe is trying to be a 2 in 1 player. He is trying to facilitate while playing his position as the shooting guard, or aggressor. It is difficult, though, when there is no player to set Kobe up.

This is why the Lakers need a legit PG like Hinrich. The offense is struggling more than ever because there is simply no way the offense can flow well with no true direction and set positions. Hinrich will allow Kobe to more so play his natural position this year (not fully, though, as the Tri offense is foreign to Hinrich and the guy isn't a great facilitator anyways).

ChiSox219
02-02-2010, 05:47 AM
For their careers, when attempting 30+ shots:

Kobe:
Regular season: 39-52 (.428)
Playoffs: 7-8 (.467)

Jordan:
Regular season: 72-57 (.558) [7-5 with Wizards / 65-52 with Bulls***data only back until 86-87]
Playoffs: 17-8 (.680) [***Data only back to 90-91]

Lebron:
Regular season: 13-9 (.590)
Playoffs: 0-2 (.000)

I have an old newspaper that has Jordan's entire game log so I'll try to find that sometime this week and update the numbers but my guess is they will not change much considering MJ averaged about 19 shots over that 90ish span of games. Playoffs, probably a big difference, likely close to .500

JJ_JKidd
02-02-2010, 06:17 AM
Man, I strongly dislike the retardedness of some posters on this site. ::sigh:: Another awesome milestone tonight for KB. I like the trust he showed Ronny to hoast up the last shot. He should have made it, he didn't. Oh well.

Oh and btw...in 20 years the NBA logo will be Kobe shooting his fade-away...:clap:

Amen to that!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Zefflin
02-02-2010, 06:37 AM
Great points. Also, it is important to note the tough burden on Kobe. The Lakers don't have a facilitator or any player that can run the offense in the starting line-up other than Kobe. There is no legit PG (or Scottie-like player). When you watch the offensive sets, Kobe is trying to be a 2 in 1 player. He is trying to facilitate while playing his position as the shooting guard, or aggressor. It is difficult, though, when there is no player to set Kobe up.

This is why the Lakers need a legit PG like Hinrich. The offense is struggling more than ever because there is simply no way the offense can flow well with no true direction and set positions. Hinrich will allow Kobe to more so play his natural position this year (not fully, though, as the Tri offense is foreign to Hinrich and the guy isn't a great facilitator anyways).

Great points also.

Oh and about Captain Kurt. :pray: See ya later Sasha and Ammo!

bolts4ever
02-02-2010, 08:22 AM
For their careers, when attempting 30+ shots:


Kobe:
Regular season: 39-52 (.428)
Playoffs: 7-8 (.467)

Jordan:
Regular season: 72-57 (.558) [7-5 with Wizards / 65-52 with Bulls***data only back until 86-87]
Playoffs: 17-8 (.680) [***Data only back to 90-91]

Lebron:
Regular season: 13-9 (.590)
Playoffs: 0-2 (.000)

I have an old newspaper that has Jordan's entire game log so I'll try to find that sometime this week and update the numbers but my guess is they will not change much considering MJ averaged about 19 shots over that 90ish span of games. Playoffs, probably a big difference, likely close to .500





This may seem juvinile but personally I would like to see the break down of the teams they did it against. Lebron has played his whole career in the Horrific East which has to fatten his stats at lest alittle bit. Kobe has scored and dominated the scoring column against MUCH better compotition on a regular basis playing in the West his whole career.

ChiSox219
02-02-2010, 12:20 PM
This may seem juvinile but personally I would like to see the break down of the teams they did it against. Lebron has played his whole career in the Horrific East which has to fatten his stats at lest alittle bit. Kobe has scored and dominated the scoring column against MUCH better compotition on a regular basis playing in the West his whole career.
Lebron
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=2004&year_max=2010&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=CLE&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=Y&is_active=&is_hof=Y&pos=F&c1stat=fga&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Kobe
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=1997&year_max=2010&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=LAL&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=Y&is_active=&is_hof=Y&pos=G&c1stat=fga&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Just eyeballing, it looks like plenty of Kobe's W's came against East teams.

Consider this:

Kobe scored 81 in the regular season against the Raptors, which were the 29th ranked defense that year. Jordan scored 63 against the Celtics who besides being the #1 defense that year, that Celtic team is considered the best ever. So opposing competition isn't going to help Kobe's case all that much.

Feel free to go through the numbers and figure out the average opposing team record, I'd be interested in that.

ARMIN12NBA
02-02-2010, 06:23 PM
Lebron
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=2004&year_max=2010&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=CLE&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=Y&is_active=&is_hof=Y&pos=F&c1stat=fga&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Kobe
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=1997&year_max=2010&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=LAL&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=Y&is_active=&is_hof=Y&pos=G&c1stat=fga&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

Just eyeballing, it looks like plenty of Kobe's W's came against East teams.

Consider this:

Kobe scored 81 in the regular season against the Raptors, which were the 29th ranked defense that year. Jordan scored 63 against the Celtics who besides being the #1 defense that year, that Celtic team is considered the best ever. So opposing competition isn't going to help Kobe's case all that much.

Feel free to go through the numbers and figure out the average opposing team record, I'd be interested in that.

Be fair at least. Jordan did it in 2OT and Kobe did it in regulation. Not arguing one or the other. I am saying to be fair.

BTW--Every player has faced horrible teams like the Raptors year in and year out and all have suffered a loss to them occasionally. Not all have scored 81 points. Just food for thought.

_KB24_
02-02-2010, 08:43 PM
Since we are all bringing in old stats to prove a point......

Kobe 62 points entering the 4th......

ENTIRE MAVS TEAM 61 points entering the 4th..........

That was one of the greatest individual offensive season in the history of the NBA. He could have gone for 80+ twice in one season if he played the 4th.

nipo10847
02-02-2010, 09:11 PM
Jesus Christ! How the hell it's become a Jordan-Kobe thread????

Jays Claw
02-02-2010, 10:51 PM
Chris Bosh vs. Indiana Pacers

Chris Bosh - 36 minutes, 35 points, 15 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks. :clap:

Baller1
02-02-2010, 10:56 PM
Chris Bosh vs. Indiana Pacers

Chris Bosh - 36 minutes, 35 points, 15 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks. :clap:

In an ugly loss to a bad team.

But, another great performance by Bosh nonetheless. I've always really liked Bosh, and it's nice to see him playing great ball right now.

Jays Claw
02-02-2010, 11:00 PM
In an ugly loss to a bad team.

But, another great performance by Bosh nonetheless. I've always liked Bosh, and it's nice to see him playing great ball right now.

The Raptors were without Hedo Turkoglu, DeMar DeRozan and Jose Calderon.

Baller1
02-02-2010, 11:02 PM
The Raptors were without Hedo Turkoglu, DeMar DeRozan and Jose Calderon.

Oh, I didn't realize, my bad.

They still should've beat a bad Indiana team. But, like I said, great performance by Bosh.

MacFitz92
02-02-2010, 11:02 PM
MVP is going to be LeBron or Kobe, barring an unbelieveable run near the end of the year, in which the only players will have a chance to win MVP: Dirk, Melo, Durant.

One thing I don't understand is how in the bloody hell is Duncan 4th when Dirk is 7th? Other than the 2 rebounds per game more that Timmy has, Dirk averages a significant amount more scoring wise, and his team has a better record? I guess Duncan's half of a block more per game does that right? BS.

Jays Claw
02-02-2010, 11:05 PM
Oh, I didn't realize that, my bad.

They still should've beat a bad Indiana team. But, like I said, great performance by Bosh.

It was an amazing performance by Chris Bosh. Andrea Bargnani also pitched in with thirty four points. However, it wasn't enough. The Pacers seem to out play the Raptors every time they go into Indiana.

Baller1
02-02-2010, 11:27 PM
MVP! MVP!

Can anyone stop Kevin Durant?!

33 pts, 11 rbs, 3 ast, 2 stl, and 1 blk... all on 9/18 shooting and 14/14 from the line in a home win against the Atlanta Hawks.

Props to Westbrook as well, he won the game for us in the fourth.

ChiSox219
02-02-2010, 11:36 PM
Lebron 22 Points, 15 assists and another W

Can't wait to watch that Pacers-Raptors game

ManRam
02-03-2010, 06:23 PM
ESPN's updated award watch: http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-100202/nba-awards-watch

LeBron
Kobe
Dirk
Melo
Durant
Nash
Johnson
Duncan
Dwight
Bosh

LeBron is also #4 (tied) for DPOY. Dwight's back to #1. A lot of Kobe's early MVP status was based on the team's play without Pau and injuries in general. Well, LeBron and the Cavs haven't dropped off at all since Mo went out (6-0), further enhancing his status.

bigsams50
02-03-2010, 06:39 PM
This is off topic but im loving how much love Crash is gettin for DPOY

ARMIN12NBA
02-03-2010, 09:02 PM
ESPN's updated award watch: http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-100202/nba-awards-watch

LeBron
Kobe
Dirk
Melo
Durant
Nash
Johnson
Duncan
Dwight
Bosh

LeBron is also #4 (tied) for DPOY. Dwight's back to #1. A lot of Kobe's early MVP status was based on the team's play without Pau and injuries in general. Well, LeBron and the Cavs haven't dropped off at all since Mo went out (6-0), further enhancing his status.

:laugh2: Gotta love it.


Although his chase-from-behind blocks are what are shown on "SportsCenter," his ability to get physical and shut down the game's top perimeter players are why he's on this list.

Classic stuff. These guys are so damn good at just pulling stuff from out of their ***.

ManRam
02-03-2010, 09:14 PM
:laugh2: Gotta love it.



Classic stuff. These guys are so damn good at just pulling stuff from out of their ***.

Yeah. LeBron is not shut down. But he has definitely done a great job one-on-one this year and last year. Much improved. The Cavs have stuck him on opposing teams' best scorers for the most part of the year. He is an elite defender as far as I'm concerned, but shut-down is not his #1 defensive trait at all. I think top 5 is okay though when you include all-around defense, his usage and impact.

ManRam
02-03-2010, 09:26 PM
My top 10 this week...

1. LeBron: His to lose at this point. Best stats. Best record. Winning without Mo.
2. Kobe: The only other person in contention, but he is trailing by quite a bit IMO.
3. Durant: Scoring a ton. Great stats. But can he get his team into the playoffs?
4. Dirk (+1): The Mavs are reeling a bit, but the guys behind him are falling as well.
5. Duncan (+1): Having a crazy efficient year. The only consistent thing on his team.
6. Nash (+5): Had him MIA last week. They've won their last three, and he's a big reason why.
7. Deron Williams (+4): One of the three hottest teams in the league. Deserves more love than he's getting.
8. Melo (-4): They're winning without him. He has to drop between that and missing games.
9. Dwight (+2): His offense in January has never, ever, ever looked better. If Orlando keeps winning, and Vince keeps sucking, he might creep up to top 5.
10. Bosh (-1): Putting up crazy good stats, but his all around impact still isn't up their with the guys ahead of him.

Bye-bye Roy, Joe Johnson and Wade. Roy has missed too many games now. It's clear to me that Atlanta is not just JJ. The heat are .500...Wade can't be top 10 anymore.

_KB24_
02-03-2010, 09:44 PM
Lebron ahead of Artest in DPOY........ :facepalm:

"Shut down defender" my ***...

Shammyguy3
02-03-2010, 09:57 PM
Man, I strongly dislike the retardedness of some posters on this site. ::sigh:: Another awesome milestone tonight for KB. I like the trust he showed Ronny to hoast up the last shot. He should have made it, he didn't. Oh well.

Oh and btw...in 20 years the NBA logo will be Kobe shooting his fade-away...:clap:

except for the fact that it wont. If the NBA changes the logo, all of these players would become the new logo before Bryant:

(no specific order)

Magic
Bird
Jordan
Lebron (even tho i hate him)

kobe24>lebron23
02-03-2010, 10:44 PM
except for the fact that it wont. If the NBA changes the logo, all of these players would become the new logo before Bryant:

(no specific order)

Magic
Bird
Jordan
Lebron (even tho i hate him)

bird is arguable and lebron :facepalm: really how if kobes gonna retire first unless ofcourse something bad happens to lebron

tredigs
02-03-2010, 11:10 PM
bird is arguable and lebron :facepalm: really how if kobes gonna retire first unless ofcourse something bad happens to lebron

There's zero chance it will be anyone but Jordan. Anyone who thinks Kobe is just delusional. Great player, not one of the Rushmores though.

tredigs
02-03-2010, 11:27 PM
Also -- I saw LBJ got the Eastern Conference player of the month just now. No surprise there. When is the Western Conference awarded? Or has Durant already been awarded it?

Jays Claw
02-03-2010, 11:29 PM
^ Chris Paul won it.

ManRam
02-03-2010, 11:37 PM
Paul went 21/5/12 on 49% shooting and 38% from three. The Hornets were 11-5 (not including the one game without him).
Kev went 32/8/3 on 52% shooting and 53% from three. The Thunder were 8-7.

Definitely the two most deserving (Kobe had a poor month in terms of Kobe standards). I'm guessing Paul got the nod because of team play

tredigs
02-03-2010, 11:48 PM
^ Chris Paul won it.

That's understandable. Cp3's a boss, deserved it. Fine with him or Durant getting it. Would've been fine with Gerald Wallace getting it in the East too.

Durant leads the league in scoring now, nice. I think I called that last week.

_KB24_
02-04-2010, 12:42 AM
Paul deservedly won it. Man, everytime this guy gets it going, something happens. Hang in their Hornets fans.

ko8e24
02-04-2010, 03:31 AM
So LeBron just may repeat as league MVP. Congrats to him :clap:



BUT


I don't think any of you Kobe haters/dislikers can say that you cannot respect the man for playing hurt night in and night out and trying to be as effective as possible and helping his team to wins. Kobe Bryant is officially the toughest S.O.B. in the NBA. To me, that just strengthens his legacy and reputation. His competitive nature is something to truly admire!

_KB24_
02-04-2010, 04:01 AM
So LeBron just may repeat as league MVP. Congrats to him :clap:



BUT


I don't think any of you Kobe haters/dislikers can say that you cannot respect the man for playing hurt night in and night out and trying to be as effective as possible and helping his team to wins. Kobe Bryant is officially the toughest S.O.B. in the NBA. To me, that just strengthens his legacy and reputation. His competitive nature is something to truly admire!

Theres still a long way too go. Way too early to give the award and say it's over.

ChiSox219
02-04-2010, 04:18 AM
So LeBron just may repeat as league MVP. Congrats to him :clap:



BUT


I don't think any of you Kobe haters/dislikers can say that you cannot respect the man for playing hurt night in and night out and trying to be as effective as possible and helping his team to wins. Kobe Bryant is officially the toughest S.O.B. in the NBA. To me, that just strengthens his legacy and reputation. His competitive nature is something to truly admire!

I hear he's banged up, what else besides the broken finger?

Zefflin
02-04-2010, 04:32 AM
Ha, ankle, knee, backs fine now, elbows fine now. He got f'd up this season and still hasn't sat a game.

JNA17
02-04-2010, 09:22 AM
I hear he's banged up, what else besides the broken finger?

back spasms, leg and knee injurys.

Zefflin
02-04-2010, 10:06 AM
Didn't I just type that?? Ha.

DevonMSF
02-04-2010, 11:07 AM
Has to be LeBron.
Put 'Bron on the Lakers and tell me they don't win a ring.

ko8e24
02-04-2010, 03:19 PM
Has to be LeBron.
Put 'Bron on the Lakers and tell me they don't win a ring.

Typical noobie poster here on PSD :puke:

ko8e24
02-04-2010, 03:21 PM
Theres still a long way too go. Way too early to give the award and say it's over.

The media picks it, they're already high on LeBron, I mean hell they jizz in their pants every time he has those Sportscenter-type chasedown blocks, lol. It ain't gonna happen.

ChiSox219
02-04-2010, 03:22 PM
Ha, ankle, knee, backs fine now, elbows fine now. He got f'd up this season and still hasn't sat a game.

Let's not make Kobe out to be some martyr. Guys play hurt frequently, Wade is banged up and producing at an incredible rate.


Has to be LeBron.
Put 'Bron on the Lakers and tell me they don't win a ring.

Tell me they don't win at least 70.

still1ballin
02-04-2010, 03:29 PM
Let's not make Kobe out to be some martyr. Guys play hurt frequently, Wade is banged up and producing at an incredible rate.



Tell me they don't win at least 70.

Except for Lebron:rolleyes:

Malkin 71
02-04-2010, 03:31 PM
melos name should be there he's leading the league with almost 30 points a game

ko8e24
02-04-2010, 04:22 PM
melos name should be there he's leading the league with almost 30 points a game

:pity: another noobie. The fact that he's leading the league in scoring, he should be MVP?

Interesting, don't remember Kobe getting it in 06 or 07.


Melo has been out with a sprained ankle the last 6 games, and the Nuggets are actually playing solidly without him and with Chauncey back into the lineup.

And Kevin Durant and Melo are tied at 29.7 PPG

ManRam
02-04-2010, 04:48 PM
Except for Lebron:rolleyes:

Ahh...love Laker fans.

LeBron James has missed 21 games in his 522 game career. If that's not durability, tell me what is. Kobe has had a lot of 50 and 60 game seasons.

What Kobe is doing is amazing. Doesn't make him the MVP. I'd rather have a player who doesn't get hurt period than a player who will play through it. I don't think any one in their right mind would disagree.

THISISDAYEAR
02-04-2010, 07:22 PM
Where's Mello?

still1ballin
02-04-2010, 07:51 PM
Ahh...love Laker fans.

LeBron James has missed 21 games in his 522 game career. If that's not durability, tell me what is. Kobe has had a lot of 50 and 60 game seasons.

What Kobe is doing is amazing. Doesn't make him the MVP. I'd rather have a player who doesn't get hurt period than a player who will play through it. I don't think any one in their right mind would disagree.

Was that the 21 games in which he missed for a sprained pinky on his non shooting hand?

ManRam
02-04-2010, 08:37 PM
Was that the 21 games in which he missed for a sprained pinky on his non shooting hand?

No.

I just get why, of all people, you guys have to say "LeBron wouldn't play with the injuries". It's annoying. We get it, you hate him.

He missed three games his rookie year because of a sprained ankle. He missed 2 games in 04-05 because of a sprained ankle and played the day after sustaining a left facial fracture of his maxillary sinus (had to wear that mask). The three games he missed in 05-06 were to rest for the playoffs. In 06-07 he missed one game with back-spasms because the team wouldn't let him play. He missed a few games because of a toe problem, something that would not have gotten better without rest. No reason to keep playing if rest is going to heal an issue.

In 07-08 he missed time because of a sprained index finger a lot like Kobe's. It was early in the season, he sat out, and got healthy for the rest of the season, and the playoffs.

Kobe is tough...but he might be tough to a fault, and definitely has had more injury problems than LeBron. If this pestering injuries don't go away, and it affects his play in the playoffs...then his toughness was all for not.

And if you want to me go into depth about all the injuries he's played through, I'll be your guest...I'm not saying he'd be playing now if he were in Kobe's shoes...I'm just responding the the juvenile LeBron jab that was made.

ARMIN12NBA
02-04-2010, 09:24 PM
No.

I just get why, of all people, you guys have to say "LeBron wouldn't play with the injuries". It's annoying. We get it, you hate him.

He missed three games his rookie year because of a sprained ankle. He missed 2 games in 04-05 because of a sprained ankle and played the day after sustaining a left facial fracture of his maxillary sinus (had to wear that mask). The three games he missed in 05-06 were to rest for the playoffs. In 06-07 he missed one game with back-spasms because the team wouldn't let him play. He missed a few games because of a toe problem, something that would not have gotten better without rest. No reason to keep playing if rest is going to heal an issue.

In 07-08 he missed time because of a sprained index finger a lot like Kobe's. It was early in the season, he sat out, and got healthy for the rest of the season, and the playoffs.

Kobe is tough...but he might be tough to a fault, and definitely has had more injury problems than LeBron. If this pestering injuries don't go away, and it affects his play in the playoffs...then his toughness was all for not.

And if you want to me go into depth about all the injuries he's played through, I'll be your guest...I'm not saying he'd be playing now if he were in Kobe's shoes...I'm just responding the the juvenile LeBron jab that was made.

No. It was a mildly sprained pinky on his non-shooting hand.

_KB24_
02-04-2010, 09:42 PM
Lebron was heavily criticized for missing time for a god damn sprained picky on his NON-shooting hand. He ain't going to suck it up and play, he cares about his stats too much.

ManRam
02-04-2010, 09:42 PM
No. It was a mildly sprained pinky on his non-shooting hand.

No. The five games he missed in a row were because of a sprained index finger. The AP game recaps for all 5 games say it. If you can show me something that says LeBron missed a game in 07-08 with a sprained pinky, please, show me. Nothing comes up on google about anything. I remember the index finger, don't remember a pinky. Kobe had a pinky problem.

It was his non-shooting hand though, so I retract my "just like Kobe" statement.

ManRam
02-05-2010, 12:40 AM
No. The five games he missed in a row were because of a sprained index finger. The AP game recaps for all 5 games say it. If you can show me something that says LeBron missed a game in 07-08 with a sprained pinky, please, show me. Nothing comes up on google about anything. I remember the index finger, don't remember a pinky. Kobe had a pinky problem.

:cricket::cricket::cricket:

Baller1
02-05-2010, 01:10 AM
:cricket::cricket::cricket:

:laugh2:

Zefflin
02-05-2010, 06:28 AM
Let's not make Kobe out to be some martyr. Guys play hurt frequently, Wade is banged up and producing at an incredible rate.

Tell me they don't win at least 70.

Kobe's top in the nba in toughness, let's not take away from that.

Luckally Kobe's been on the Lakers though, and winning the rings instead. ;)

Baller1
02-05-2010, 12:19 PM
Scoring binge puts Thunder's Durant in MVP company


OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- One by one, Kevin Durant has been taking the NBA's biggest names and scoring his way right on past them.

First Kobe. Then LeBron. Next up, Carmelo.

With a spree that began just before Christmas, Durant has climbed into a virtual tie with Denver's Carmelo Anthony for first place in the NBA scoring race. He's had at least 25 points in each of his last 23 games -- a feat that none of the other superstars has ever accomplished and no one else has ever done at his age.

Durant says he only cares about wins -- and those are rising, too. With Durant leading the way, the Oklahoma City Thunder are right in the thick of the playoff race and making that dismal first season seem like ancient history.

"I know that Carmelo's going to be back, LeBron is going to have 40 or 50 points one of these nights and Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and some of those guys are going to continue to score in the high 30s and sometimes 40s and they're just going to easily surpass me," said Durant, who will make his All-Star debut next week. "That's something I try not to worry about, man. I don't even want to think about that."

Durant increased his scoring output in each of the past three months and was averaging 29.69 points, just five-hundredths of a point behind Anthony, who has missed the past six games with a sprained ankle.

"He's a phenomenal player. He's beautiful to watch," Atlanta coach Mike Woodson said of Durant. "He's kind of an old-school throwback in terms of scoring the ball. This year, I see him trying to defend and he's trying to lead. That's the sign of a player that one day is really going to be a dominant player, probably one of the best players in our league."

That was before Atlanta lost a 106-99 decision to the Thunder. Afterward, he was calling Durant an MVP candidate.

His own coach sees it, too, in the way Durant sets the tone for Oklahoma City with a workmanlike routine that never wavers. It's even evident on his Twitter page, where his post after nearly every win includes the same phrase: "Back to work tomorrow."

"He scores, leads us in rebounds, steals, blocked shots. He does a lot for us," Thunder coach Scott Brooks said. "But when you get mentioned in groups like that, your team has to win. And we're winning some games, more than we won last year, but we're still not winning at the level that those other teams are."

The Thunder entered Thursday tied with Portland for seventh place in the Western Conference, and only three games behind third-place Dallas.

"He's continued to work to know he's got to work on his defense, his all-around game and I'm telling you: He's just getting started,"said Rick Barnes, Durant's coach at University of Texas. "And there's no doubt in my mind, one day he'll be the best in the NBA."

A revelation came during Durant's first season, when he averaged 20.3 points and won rookie of the year.

"Once he had played against Kobe Bryant, he said what he respected most about Kobe Bryant was when Kobe had the ball, his exact words were `He wants to cut your throat,"' Barnes said, recalling a conversation with Durant. "'When he's playing defense, he wants to cut your throat.' He said, `That's where I want to get to."'

Durant said he's still working toward that goal, but he sees himself making progress as his game develops. He doesn't feel like he's forcing shots outside of Brooks' offense and he's aiming to be more aggressive.

It shows during the current span when he's averaging 32.5 points. He's cut down on his 3-point tries by about one-fourth but he's making twice as many (51 percent as compared to 28 percent in his first 26 games) and focusing on getting to the rim or getting fouled in the process.

Looking back, he remembers those first times playing against Bryant and still tries to emulate that aggressive demeanor.

"He was physical, he played hard. He never smiled on the court, never talked to anybody," Durant said. "He took that kind of approach that he wanted to destroy whoever he was guarding and whoever was guarding him. He wanted to exploit them by shutting them down on the defensive end and coming down on the offensive end and scoring on them. That's the mentality I wanted to take."

Durant said he doesn't put himself in the same superstar category with Bryant and the other players that surround him on the scoring list -- but he knows how to get there.

"You gotta win. That's all it takes. We'll see," Durant said before adding his familiar refrain. "Just gotta keep working."

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/04/thunder.durant.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

ko8e24
02-05-2010, 03:31 PM
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/02/05/racetothemvp.week14/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1



1. LeBron James, Cavs
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
51 38.6 29.4 7.1 8.2 1.5 1.0 .503 .357 .775
Last Week's Rank - 1
James has the Cavaliers at 40-11, the league's best record, so reaching traditional MVP territory, victories-wise, is a no-brainer. The Race was pleased to see LBJ shooting fewer 3-pointers and way more 15-footers (21 FTA) vs. Miami Thursday.

2. Kobe Bryant, Lakers
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
50 38.6 27.9 5.3 4.7 1.7 0.3 .460 .320 .813
Last Week's Rank - 2
Bryant helped the Lakers to a big win on the road and he was good for yet another "Kobe did it again!" moment with his late (and impeccably defended-by-Ray Allen) game-winner at Boston.

3. Kevin Durant, Thunder
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
49 39.9 29.7 7.3 2.9 1.4 0.9 .488 .374 .879
Last Week's Rank - 3
The last time anyone strung together 23 consecutive games scoring 25 points or more -- which Durant has done, the youngest guy ever to do so -- was Philadelphia's Allen Iverson in 2000-01. Iverson was named MVP that season after leading the 76ers to a 56-26 record. Durant's OKC club would need to finish 28-5 to match that. The Race is just sayin' ...

4. Carmelo Anthony, Nuggets
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
38 37.9 29.7 6.5 3.3 1.3 0.4 .464 .361 .861
Last Week's Rank - --
The Race overreacted to Anthony's sprained lef ankle last week. But 'Melo last played on Jan. 23 and is expected to miss at least seven, maybe eight or even nine games -- he practiced Thursday but his explosiveness was said to be lacking. It's impossible to quibble with Anthony's production or Denver's results, but if this were to drag on or become chronic, well, see No. 10 below.

5. Dwight Howard, Magic
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
49 35.1 17.8 13.3 1.6 1.1 2.7 .601 --- .596
Last Week's Rank - 6
Ten consecutive double-doubles, 30 blocks in his last six games and an 8-1 mark for the Magic over their past nine nudges the Orlando strongman up a notch.

6. Tim Duncan, Spurs
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
45 32.5 19.7 10.8 3.2 0.5 1.8 .527 --- .759
Last Week's Rank - 4
Duncan drops two spots since The Race's last report. Why? The Spurs went 2-2 and, applying the criteria cited at the top, San Antonio at 28-20 (.583) is on pace for a 48-34 finish. Just south of the desirable 50-victory mark for MVP winners.

7. Dirk Nowitzki, Mavs
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
48 38.0 25.1 7.8 2.4 0.9 1.2 .481 .382 .892
Last Week's Rank - 7
The Mavericks track a stat that shows Nowtizki outscoring the other team's power forward by 10 points or more on 30 occasions this season. At that position, others who have posted that 10-plus socring advantage include Chris Bosh (23 times), Amar'e Stoudemire (19), Zach Randolph (16) and David West (15). But The Race isn't genuflecting, since a recurring 10-point premium shouldn't be too much to expect for MVP candidates.

8. Chris Bosh, Raptors
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
50 36.0 24.2 11.4 2.2 0.6 1.1 .520 .400 .789
Last Week's Rank - 5
Same math, same problem. Bosh, for all his talent, had the Raptors just four games above .500 (27-23) as The Race closed its book on the week. That projects to 44-38, which would be a lesser record than 1982 MVP winner Moses Malone's Houston team (46-36). So we implore Bosh to give his team mo', mo', mo'.

9. Steve Nash,
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
51 33.7 18.3 3.2 11.1 0.6 0.2 .521 .433 .938
Last Week's Rank - 9
The Race always gets hung up on Nash because he seems more instrumental, even inseparable, from the way Phoenix plays than almost anyone else in the league. That said, the Suns are on pace to win 48 games. And that's worse than Utah with Deron Williams, Boston with Rajon Rondo and Atlanta with Joe Johnson, among the guys ready to claim this spot and climb higher.

10. Chris Paul, Hornets
G MPG PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% 3P% FT%
38 38.7 20.4 4.6 11.2 2.3 0.2 .504 .420 .862
Last Week's Rank - --
Consider this a hearty farewell -- or at least "see ya later!" -- to the New Orleans point guard, a symbolic vote before he slips out of The Race. Paul's knee surgery Thursday could sideline him for the next six weeks, and MVP voters rarely overlook that when it comes time to honor guys who managed to stay healthy for all or most of the grind. It's too bad that his nod as the Western Conference's player of January, on top of All-Star status that he'll enjoy in casual clothes, likely will be Paul's last individual acclaim for a while. Then again, the Hornets project to 44-38 at the moment.

ManRam
02-06-2010, 01:19 AM
Watching this game verse the Lakers...and I think Melo needs to be dropped down or maybe even out of the top 10, and Chauncey needs to start getting some love.

Lakersfan2483
02-06-2010, 02:06 AM
Watching this game verse the Lakers...and I think Melo needs to be dropped down or maybe even out of the top 10, and Chauncey needs to start getting some love.

Billups definitely deserves some MVP consideration, he was great tonight and has been impressive all year.

iggypop123
02-06-2010, 02:06 AM
melo is officially gone from mvp considerations. he should get 0 first place votes

ChiSox219
02-06-2010, 02:10 AM
melo is officially gone from mvp considerations. he should get 0 first place votes

Kobe needs to be knocked down a few notches as well.

still1ballin
02-06-2010, 02:36 AM
Kobe needs to be knocked down a few notches as well.

Why

_KB24_
02-06-2010, 02:52 AM
Why

Because he's a hater. No need to argue with him.

JayW_1023
02-06-2010, 07:32 AM
My top three MVP choices:

LeBron
Kobe
Chauncey

Chauncey officially deserves to be mentioned. I love Melo's game and all, but it's obvious now who is the true reason Denver is a contender.

yankeeking11
02-06-2010, 08:28 AM
LeBron James again beacuse ummmmmmm he's the best! http://www.shoptradition.com/store/blog/uploaded_images/two-kings-dinner-tao-vegas-jay-z-lebron-737402.jpg

alencp3
02-06-2010, 10:31 AM
Durant should be second and Billups third.Kobe 4th.

ManRam
02-06-2010, 11:03 AM
Because he's a hater. No need to argue with him.

Ahhh....If you don't agree with the Laker fans, you're a hater. Got it.

I think there is definitely a legitimate argument for Kobe not being second. I don't agree with it, but there is one. Instead of calling someone a "hater" (pretty much the only comeback it seems you guys have) why do you tell us why he's wrong???

Lakersfan2483
02-06-2010, 03:56 PM
Top MVP candidates: Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Billups, Duncan, Howard, Dirk

Lakersfan2483
02-06-2010, 04:04 PM
Kobe needs to be knocked down a few notches as well.

For what, he's put his team in position to have the 2nd best record in the NBA despite playing with multiple injuries, and missing his second best player for 17 games. Not too mention missing Ron Artest for 5 games. He's been playing at a high level all year and just because his team has lost a few games as of late, doesn't mean he should be dropped in the MVP race. He's still impacting games and putting up very good numbers. The Lakers have only lost 14 games all year, you need to put that into perspective when comparing that to the other teams in the NBA. Outside of Cleveland, no other team has perfomed better than LA at this year.

It's going to be interesting to see which team(s) finish the strongest as the all star break is fast approaching and a lot of guys will get the opportunity to rest and be ready to roll after the break.... I expect to see the Lakers to play much better after the all star break.

ChiSox219
02-06-2010, 04:27 PM
For what, he's put his team in position to have the 2nd best record in the NBA despite playing with multiple injuries, and missing his second best player for 17 games. Not too mention missing Ron Artest for 5 games. He's been playing at a high level all year and just because his team has lost a few games as of late, doesn't mean he should be dropped in the MVP race. He's still impacting games and putting up very good numbers. The Lakers have only lost 14 games all year, you need to put that into perspective when comparing that to the other teams in the NBA. Outside of Cleveland, no other team has perfomed better than LA at this year.

It's going to be interesting to see which team(s) finish the strongest as the all star break is fast approaching and a lot of guys will get the opportunity to rest and be ready to roll after the break.... I expect to see the Lakers to play much better after the all star break.

Durant, Dirk and Duncan should both be ahead of Kobe based on their individual performance combined with the ability to win despite a dearth of healthy talent.

ARMIN12NBA
02-06-2010, 04:50 PM
Durant, Dirk and Duncan should both be ahead of Kobe based on their individual performance combined with the ability to win despite a dearth of healthy talent.

Kobe's individual performance has been on par, if not better, when looking at the entirety of the season. Not to mention that those guys have a great amount of talent around them too (even Durant).

iggypop123
02-06-2010, 05:13 PM
lol you guys are right he is a hater

Baller1
02-06-2010, 05:32 PM
Kobe's individual performance has been on par, if not better, when looking at the entirety of the season. Not to mention that those guys have a great amount of talent around them too (even Durant).

Kobe has the most talent surrounding him by far. Billups is playing without Melo, and still has the Nuggets cruising. Dirk's been consistent all year. Durant is playing better than anyone in the entire league right (except for probably Lebron).

Kobe is not performing better than Durant right now by any stretch of the imagination.

nipo10847
02-06-2010, 05:32 PM
1. LeBron


2. Durant





3. rests/ who cares?

ManRam
02-06-2010, 05:37 PM
I do think that Durant is playing at a higher individual level than Kobe right now...which is why I can see an argument for having him over Kobe. However, as long as the Lakers stay #1 in the West, he's #2.

Baller1
02-06-2010, 05:37 PM
1. LeBron


2. Durant





3. rests/ who cares?

Billups and Kobe deserve consideration as well. But otherwise, no one else is remotely close.

Baller1
02-06-2010, 05:42 PM
I do think that Durant is playing at a higher individual level than Kobe right now...which is why I can see an argument for having him over Kobe. However, as long as the Lakers stay #1 in the West, he's #2.

Yeah, i understand the argument for Kobe, just as I do for Durant.

It really depends on how you look at the "Most Valuable Player" award. If people voted for that reason only, Lebron and Durant would be the only players even deserving of consideration, due to the fact that their teams would be considerably worse without those two.

But then there's the other side to look at (Kobe is #2), because he is the leader of the second best team in the league while putting up great all-around stats and playing through injury.

There's two ways to look at it, and I can see both sides to the argument. With that said, it really doesn't matter unless:

1. Lebron gets injured.
2. Lakers finish with the best record and Kobe gets his stats up.
3. The Thunder jump to a top #3-4 seed in the West.

Otherwise, it's Lebrons.

_KB24_
02-06-2010, 06:34 PM
Ahhh....If you don't agree with the Laker fans, you're a hater. Got it.

I think there is definitely a legitimate argument for Kobe not being second. I don't agree with it, but there is one. Instead of calling someone a "hater" (pretty much the only comeback it seems you guys have) why do you tell us why he's wrong???

No, because if you already know there is a bias against him, no point to argue. I have no reason to argue with a guy who thinks Lebron's performance at MSG is better than Kobe's 81 outburst. Just no need. So he is a hater.

ManRam
02-06-2010, 06:39 PM
No, because if you already know there is a bias against him, no point to argue. I have no reason to argue with a guy who thinks Lebron's performance at MSG is better than Kobe's 81 outburst. Just no need. So he is a hater.

And as evident by your username and you sig, your biases are evident and therefore he should have no reason to argue with you ;) So therefore you are a LeBron-hater and an anti-Kobe-hater. :)

Everyone has their biases here. I just find it humorous when certain people here just resort to insults and calling people "haters", rather then provide a reason why they disagree. No one takes the person saying "hater" anymore seriously than the person being called it.

_KB24_
02-06-2010, 06:52 PM
And as evident by your username and you sig, your biases are evident and therefore he should have no reason to argue with you ;) So therefore you are a LeBron-hater and an anti-Kobe-hater. :)

Everyone has their biases here. I just find it humorous when certain people here just resort to insults and calling people "haters", rather then provide a reason why they disagree. No one takes the person saying "hater" anymore seriously than the person being called it.

Can you honestly make up up an arguement that would have Lebron's MSG performance ahead of Kobe's 81 points? I find it ridiculous.

ManRam
02-06-2010, 07:32 PM
Can you honestly make up up an arguement that would have Lebron's MSG performance ahead of Kobe's 81 points? I find it ridiculous.

No. But that game clinched the Central, he scored 22 points in the 4th and overtime, had 9 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks to boot. It was a closer game. He didn't take more than half his team's shots.

I don't know. It can be done. Kobe's was a great scoring effort, you can argue LeBron's was better all-around, more meaningful and more clutch.

I totally disagree with the notion LeBron's was in his league...but you can make an argument for everything.

Lakersfan2483
02-06-2010, 07:35 PM
Durant, Dirk and Duncan should both be ahead of Kobe based on their individual performance combined with the ability to win despite a dearth of healthy talent.

None of those guys have a better record then Kobe and the Lakers and considering the fact that Pau missed 17 games, that's quite impressive. In terms of healthy talent, Dirk's roster has been just as healthy as Kobe's this year as has Duncan's (Parker has missed time as has Josh Howard, but so has Pau and Artest). The only argument can be for Durant, but you don't discredit someone because their GM has enough sense to surround them with enough talent to compete for a title. Kobe was in the same position Durant was in a few yrs. ago and put up better numbers and was not voted the MVP. In the end, it's going to come down to team records, and overall individual performance, the latter being the main focus.

ARMIN12NBA
02-06-2010, 08:16 PM
For years, Kobe was ripped for not being enough of a playmaker for others. Today, Durant's playmaking for others ability is non-existent. Yet, people find some way to put down Kobe and prop up Durant.

Oh, gotta love the double standards.

_KB24_
02-06-2010, 08:19 PM
No. But that game clinched the Central, he scored 22 points in the 4th and overtime, had 9 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks to boot. It was a closer game. He didn't take more than half his team's shots.

I don't know. It can be done. Kobe's was a great scoring effort, you can argue LeBron's was better all-around, more meaningful and more clutch.

I totally disagree with the notion LeBron's was in his league...but you can make an argument for everything.

No, you cannot compare something that is not on the same level. You can't compare a Gold Medal to a silver.

ARMIN12NBA
02-06-2010, 08:20 PM
No. But that game clinched the Central, he scored 22 points in the 4th and overtime, had 9 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks to boot. It was a closer game. He didn't take more than half his team's shots.

I don't know. It can be done. Kobe's was a great scoring effort, you can argue LeBron's was better all-around, more meaningful and more clutch.

I totally disagree with the notion LeBron's was in his league...but you can make an argument for everything.

How is that?

ARMIN12NBA
02-06-2010, 08:20 PM
Kobe has the most talent surrounding him by far. Billups is playing without Melo, and still has the Nuggets cruising. Dirk's been consistent all year. Durant is playing better than anyone in the entire league right (except for probably Lebron).

Kobe is not performing better than Durant right now by any stretch of the imagination.

Not at all.

ManRam
02-06-2010, 08:47 PM
How is that?

He won a game in overtime, basically on his own, and it was a division clinching game. Kobe was in the game late when they were up double digits, racking up points. Not clutch.

Again, I don't agree...just playing Devil's advocate. Kobe's was better, it wasn't perfect.

ManRam
02-06-2010, 08:48 PM
Not at all.

How's that? ;)

Baller1
02-06-2010, 08:54 PM
Not at all.

Please elaborate.

Baller1
02-06-2010, 08:56 PM
For years, Kobe was ripped for not being enough of a playmaker for others. Today, Durant's playmaking for others ability is non-existent. Yet, people find some way to put down Kobe and prop up Durant.

Oh, gotta love the double standards.

How many Thunder games have you watched start to finish?

ManRam
02-06-2010, 09:02 PM
I don't think either Kobe or Durant are top 10 play makers in all honesty. The difference is, Kobe is a guard and Durant is a forward on a team with a play-making point guard who runs the offense. Kobe dominate the ball possession much more than Durant, and a lot of that is because he doesn't have a PG who really is a true PG at this point in his career. SFs in general are less of play makers than SGs.

nipo10847
02-06-2010, 09:03 PM
Not at all.

He does and he surely does. If you say otherwise you are delusional.

Mr.WhiteSox
02-06-2010, 09:05 PM
id say as of right now...bosh. and slip up and kobe, lebron are in the top spot.

Im a diehard bulls fan but D.rose at 8. I love you dr1 but u don't belong there

ko8e24
02-06-2010, 11:00 PM
LeBron James: 17-31 FG 6-12 3 pointers 7-7 FT

47 pts
8 rebs
8 assts
5 stls

All in a 113-106 home victory over the New York Knicks.


Yes, he is the favorite to repeat as LEAGUE MVP!

Lakersfan2483
02-06-2010, 11:56 PM
LeBron James: 17-31 FG 6-12 3 pointers 7-7 FT

47 pts
8 rebs
8 assts
5 stls

All in a 113-106 home victory over the New York Knicks.


Yes, he is the favorite to repeat as LEAGUE MVP!

31 shots, heaven forbid he shoot that many times in a game! :rolleyes: In all seriousness, great game from Lebron against the Knicks.

Lakersfan2483
02-07-2010, 12:04 AM
[QUOTE=ManRamForPrez24;12221561]I don't think either Kobe or Durant are top 10 play makers in all honesty. The difference is, Kobe is a guard and Durant is a forward on a team with a play-making point guard who runs the offense. Kobe dominate the ball possession much more than Durant, and a lot of that is because he doesn't have a PG who really is a true PG at this point in his career. SFs in general are less of play makers than SGs.

I disagree with that, Kobe has always been one of the better playmakers in the NBA, he is a great passer when he needs to be. He does whatever is asked of him, if Phil asks him to be more aggressive, he's more in attack mode, but when Phil asks him to fascilitate, he's quite the playmaker. He has the ability to do whatever needs to be done and that is what separates him from most players....


*Kobe was a tremendous playmaker during our 3peat years and Phil and Tex Winter have been on record stating how good of a playmaker he was during those years. He does what the team needs him to do.

Hawkize31
02-07-2010, 08:58 AM
31 shots, heaven forbid he shoot that many times in a game! :rolleyes: In all seriousness, great game from Lebron against the Knicks.

Really? Do you really want to go there?

Thats Lebron's 2nd game shooting 30 or more all year (average of 40.5 pts in those 2 games), compared to Kobe's 7 (avg 35.8 pts in those games). Lebron has taken 1035 shots all year, while Kobe, playing injured, with better players around him, has taken 1143 shots. And despite that discrepancy in shots taken, Lebron has made 522 shots and Kobe 527. I understand you were being sarcastic a little, but don't even try to bring that weak argument. A Kobe fan on Lebron for shooting too much. Pot, meet kettle.

ko8e24
02-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Really? Do you really want to go there?

Thats Lebron's 2nd game shooting 30 or more all year (average of 40.5 pts in those 2 games), compared to Kobe's 7 (avg 35.8 pts in those games). Lebron has taken 1035 shots all year, while Kobe, playing injured, with better players around him, has taken 1143 shots. And despite that discrepancy in shots taken, Lebron has made 522 shots and Kobe 527. I understand you were being sarcastic a little, but don't even try to bring that weak argument. A Kobe fan on Lebron for shooting too much. Pot, meet kettle.

If you look at both guys' free throw attempts, you'll prolly see that LeBron gets their significantly more, which means he prolly attempts more FG overall that don't appear in a stat sheet. Remember, if you get fouled on a shot attempt, and go to the free throw line, it doesn't count as a "shot attempt" in the stat sheet. Food for thought...

Jays Claw
02-07-2010, 03:50 PM
Chris Bosh vs. Sacramento Kings

Chris Bosh - 41 minutes, 36 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 block. :clap:

MackSnackWrap
02-07-2010, 04:19 PM
Chris Bosh vs. Sacramento Kings

Chris Bosh - 41 minutes, 36 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 block. :clap:

Beatsly game

ko8e24
02-07-2010, 04:34 PM
BOSH=Beast

alencp3
02-07-2010, 05:36 PM
bosh is best PF in the league right now no arguing here

ARMIN12NBA
02-07-2010, 06:17 PM
He won a game in overtime, basically on his own, and it was a division clinching game. Kobe was in the game late when they were up double digits, racking up points. Not clutch.

Again, I don't agree...just playing Devil's advocate. Kobe's was better, it wasn't perfect.

What game are you talking about? I assumed Lebron's MSG performance was the one on February 4th, 2009.

ChiSox219
02-07-2010, 06:21 PM
Is Bynum ok?

If so, the Lakers are gonna go on a tear while Kobe is resting. Beastly game from LO 10-22-6


bosh is best PF in the league right now no arguing here

Duncan.

rabueed
02-07-2010, 06:21 PM
bosh is best PF in the league right now no arguing here

i'm going to have to disagree, Josh Powell's production is through the roof when he gets minutes. If you take Bosh's ppm and rpm production and compare them to Josh Powell, you would be singing a different tune.

:rimshot:

rabueed
02-07-2010, 06:25 PM
Is Bynum ok?

If so, the Lakers are gonna go on a tear while Kobe is resting. Beastly game from LO 10-22-6



Duncan.

Bynum might not play in the 2 games before the all star break, he has had swelling in his knee for a week now and then just bruised his hip last night.

I hope LO plays like he did last night on a regular basis. What tickes me off is that even if Kobe is playing, that shouldn't affect his rebounding numbers and involvement on the floor, but he just doesn't show up sometimes.

ARMIN12NBA
02-07-2010, 06:33 PM
How's that? ;)


Please elaborate.

I will list the talent of the rotation players of each of these teams in question.

Kobe's supporting cast:

Gasol
Artest
Bynum
Odom
Fisher
Farmar
Brown

Carmelo's supporting cast:

Billups
JR Smith
Nene
Kenyon
Ty Lawson
Afflalo
Anderson

Duncan's supporting cast:

Parker
Ginobli
Jefferson
Hill
Mason
Blair
McDyess

Dirk's supporting cast:

Terry
Howard
Kidd
Marion
Gooden
Barea
Dampier

Durant's supporting cast (not bad actually):

Wesbrook
Green
Harden
Krstic
Thabo
Collison

While Durant clearly has a lesser supporting cast, his team is also getting a whole lot less wins. Proportions people.

Other than the Thunder, these supporting casts are not too far off from each other. Consider that before the Lakers got Artest, EVERYBODY (except for Laker fans) were saying how bad of a move it was and how he was old and not the same player (if anything, a disruptive player). Consider that Pau was always said to be soft and overrated before he came to the Lakers. Nobody has ever liked Bynum and Odom is the model of inconsistency. The rest of the players on the Lakers rotation are utter garbage. All in all, I can say with ease that other teams have more depth and more consistent players while the Lakers have more star power names at the top that are probably better but not "by far" (probably star power names because they play on the Lakers and beside Kobe). BTW--It reminds me of the 2004 Lakers when everybody said how loaded that roster was when true basketball fans knew how Shaq/Kobe reliant that squad was because the rest of the team was just plain overrated.

ARMIN12NBA
02-07-2010, 06:38 PM
I don't think either Kobe or Durant are top 10 play makers in all honesty.

Kobe is top 10 easily and Durant is not.

Manram, there is a lot more that goes into playmaking than APG just so ya know...


Kobe dominate the ball possession much more than Durant

Not unless you watch the Thunder and see that Durant dominates the ball quite a lot (much more than Kobe)

BTW--Does anybody watch Laker games anymore? The day Kobe dominates the ball via P&R is the day that the Lakers will start to be a much more cohesive team and a better team. They tried it a couple times and it worked. Then Phil reverted back to telling Kobe to play within the offense (see: Lakers get 11 point lead against Nuggets with Kobe being ball dominant, then Phil telling Kobe to pound it inside and the Lakers immediately lose the lead).


, and a lot of that is because he doesn't have a PG who really is a true PG at this point in his career. SFs in general are less of play makers than SGs.

Eh, that is debatable and Durant, as the Thunder's best player, should do a lot more playmaking than he does.

ARMIN12NBA
02-07-2010, 06:42 PM
Is Bynum ok?

If so, the Lakers are gonna go on a tear while Kobe is resting. Beastly game from LO 10-22-6

Why is that? Because they beat a Roy-less and injury ridden Blazers squad? Gasol didn't even play well at all and the Lakers won. The Blazers have Andre Miller who isn't a PG who can exploit the Lakers PG weaknesses with speed and outside shooting.

Kobe and Bynum rested because they could easily do so without harming the Lakers chances of winning. The Lakers win would have happened with both of them playing.

ARMIN12NBA
02-07-2010, 06:47 PM
BTW--I know a HUGE area of contention around these parts is that Kobe "shoots too much" and that Gasol "deserves" to get more touches.

Without Kobe, Gasol got 14 field goal attempts, which is less than 2 above his average (12.2). Really not that much of a difference and shows that it isn't as much Kobe's fault for Gasol's FGA's as it is some other force.

Lakersfan2483
02-07-2010, 10:05 PM
Bynum might not play in the 2 games before the all star break, he has had swelling in his knee for a week now and then just bruised his hip last night.

I hope LO plays like he did last night on a regular basis. What tickes me off is that even if Kobe is playing, that shouldn't affect his rebounding numbers and involvement on the floor, but he just doesn't show up sometimes.

In year's past, Lamar was wildly inconsistent, however, he's been pretty consistent this year. He played very well when Gasol went out for 17 games with an injury and has been our best rebounder/low post defender this season. I have been really impressed with Lamar this year.

ManRam
02-07-2010, 11:24 PM
I wont argue with you Armin. We'll agree to disagree. Kobe is the #1 scorer in the league, I still don't think he's top 10 play-maker, certainly not top 5.

I also find it humorous that Laker fans will talk **** on every single player on their team to boost Kobe's awesomeness. That makes no sense to me. I really don't get why as a fan of any team anyone would continually discredit every player on their team in order to build one player up. But whatever. I understand Kobe isn't like anyone else on any of my favorite teams...so I might just not understand.

Kakaroach
02-07-2010, 11:28 PM
Deron Williams should get some consideration with the way the Jazz have been playing lately. I'm not expecting anything close to MVP though lol, just some credit for how good he has been lately.

superkegger
02-07-2010, 11:32 PM
So, this doesn't really seem like an MVP discussion. More like people just arguing about Kobe.

LeBron's the MVP. Period.

He's the best in the game. He may not win the titles like Jordan did during his run (or he might, who knows at this point) but he's going to win several MVP's. And only when someone like Melo or Paul just absolutely have a career year on a really good team, even though Bron will still be better, will he not win the MVP. Just look at when Barkley and Malone won those MVP's over MJ. They weren't better, people were just sick of giving it to MJ. Maybe not "sick" of giving it to him, but I don't know how else to phrase it.

He's that good, and it's going to happen.

ChiSox219
02-07-2010, 11:37 PM
I wont argue with you Armin. We'll agree to disagree. Kobe is the #1 scorer in the league, I still don't think he's top 10 play-maker, certainly not top 5.

I also find it humorous that Laker fans will talk **** on every single player on their team to boost Kobe's awesomeness. That makes no sense to me. I really don't get why as a fan of any team anyone would continually discredit every player on their team in order to build one player up. But whatever. I understand Kobe isn't like anyone else on any of my favorite teams...so I might just not understand.

I can't see his (armin) posts but I can guess what he said. You are dead on about Kobe not being a top 10 play-maker (creator). No sense in arguing with a Kobe fan because he won't concede that point no matter how true it is.


[/B]

In year's past, Lamar was wildly inconsistent, however, he's been pretty consistent this year. He played very well when Gasol went out for 17 games with an injury and has been our best rebounder/low post defender this season. I have been really impressed with Lamar this year.

I agree 100%, LO is the most underrated player in the game.

I believe (and I'll get hated for this) that the Lakers are better with Odom over Kobe...Of course their at their best when LO is replacing Fisher.

ARMIN12NBA
02-08-2010, 01:25 AM
I can't see his (armin) posts but I can guess what he said. You are dead on about Kobe not being a top 10 play-maker (creator). No sense in arguing with a Kobe fan because he won't concede that point no matter how true it is.

Good thing that isn't true so there is nothing to concede to. Kobe is a fantastic playmaker. Simply his presence within the Triangle creates plays.


I agree 100%, LO is the most underrated player in the game.

He is so underrated that he gets compared to Magic Johnson and is always talked about as a great all-around player. LO is so overrated that it disturbs me.


I believe (and I'll get hated for this) that the Lakers are better with Odom over Kobe...Of course their at their best when LO is replacing Fisher.

Good thing you don't work with a basketball organization in any capacity, whether it be scouting, managing, etc. That is so blatantly wrong that I wouldn't know where to start.

Lakersfan2483
02-08-2010, 01:28 AM
I can't see his (armin) posts but I can guess what he said. You are dead on about Kobe not being a top 10 play-maker (creator). No sense in arguing with a Kobe fan because he won't concede that point no matter how true it is.



I agree 100%, LO is the most underrated player in the game.

I believe (and I'll get hated for this) that the Lakers are better with Odom over Kobe...Of course their at their best when LO is replacing Fisher.

Please, they wouldn't get out of the first round with LO as the featured player, now you are just talking nonsense. I like Lamar, but he's a role player and Kobe is a superstar and one of the greatest players of all time. He's the most important player on the Lakers, period. Case closed.

Baller1
02-08-2010, 02:33 AM
Armin... You are by far the most annyoing poster on this site. You will go as far to discredit your own teams players just to make one player look better. That's just pathetic... Wow.

ARMIN12NBA
02-08-2010, 03:51 AM
Armin... You are by far the most annyoing poster on this site. You will go as far to discredit your own teams players just to make one player look better. That's just pathetic... Wow.

Who am I discrediting? I'm sorry I don't agree with ChiSox that LO is a top 20 player in this league...I am going so against the grain on that one to make Kobe look better. :rolleyes:

_KB24_
02-08-2010, 04:03 AM
I can't see his (armin) posts but I can guess what he said. You are dead on about Kobe not being a top 10 play-maker (creator). No sense in arguing with a Kobe fan because he won't concede that point no matter how true it is.



I agree 100%, LO is the most underrated player in the game.

I believe (and I'll get hated for this) that the Lakers are better with Odom over Kobe...Of course their at their best when LO is replacing Fisher.

Are you high? Where the hell did you even come up with that :speechless:

Baller1
02-08-2010, 04:32 PM
Who am I discrediting? I'm sorry I don't agree with ChiSox that LO is a top 20 player in this league...I am going so against the grain on that one to make Kobe look better. :rolleyes:

Right there. You basically just said the Lakers are terrible, just so you can try to justify Kobe being "that" good. That's pathetic.


Other than the Thunder, these supporting casts are not too far off from each other. Consider that before the Lakers got Artest, EVERYBODY (except for Laker fans) were saying how bad of a move it was and how he was old and not the same player (if anything, a disruptive player). Consider that Pau was always said to be soft and overrated before he came to the Lakers. Nobody has ever liked Bynum and Odom is the model of inconsistency. The rest of the players on the Lakers rotation are utter garbage. All in all, I can say with ease that other teams have more depth and more consistent players while the Lakers have more star power names at the top that are probably better but not "by far" (probably star power names because they play on the Lakers and beside Kobe). BTW--It reminds me of the 2004 Lakers when everybody said how loaded that roster was when true basketball fans knew how Shaq/Kobe reliant that squad was because the rest of the team was just plain overrated.

ARMIN12NBA
02-08-2010, 06:48 PM
Right there. You basically just said the Lakers are terrible, just so you can try to justify Kobe being "that" good. That's pathetic.

I never said the Lakers were terrible. Where in that post did I say that?

Raph12
02-09-2010, 12:54 AM
I think Dwight should get some love in this convo, he should be up there with the rest of the guys behind Lebron and Kobe.

Lakersfan2483
02-09-2010, 01:02 AM
I think Dwight should get some love in this convo, he should be up there with the rest of the guys behind Lebron and Kobe.

I love to watch Dwight play and would like to see the Magic feature him more in their offense. It's frustrating to watch the team play and not get him the ball more. All of that said, Howard is definitely in the running for the MVP and for the DPOY award.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 01:36 AM
I love to watch Dwight play and would like to see the Magic feature him more in their offense. It's frustrating to watch the team play and not get him the ball more. All of that said, Howard is definitely in the running for the MVP and for the DPOY award.

They've got him the ball more in the last 10-15 games and he's responded. He went for 25 on 8-13 shooting and 9-13 from the line tonight. Of course that was overshadowed by VC's 48 pts, but another great showing by Dwight.

He won't win MVP this season against Lebron and Kobe, but he'll definitely be a significant contender for the hardware next season... On another note, DPOY seems to be locked up yet again.

ManRam
02-09-2010, 01:43 AM
Are Laker fans (Kobe fans) mad that the Lakers are winning without him???

ARMIN12NBA
02-09-2010, 01:46 AM
Are Laker fans (Kobe fans) mad that the Lakers are winning without him???

Pissed. :p

Nah, Artest and Odom have been playing like monsters. Pau has been disappointing, but not everybody is going to play great. The other guys have stepped up in his absence and a win would be awesome tonight.

Lakersfan2483
02-09-2010, 02:10 AM
Are Laker fans (Kobe fans) mad that the Lakers are winning without him???

No, I am a Lakers fan first and foremost as are most Laker fans and want to see our team win every game. They have played 2 solid games, which is good, but the big test is coming up against a hot Utah team in Utah.

Teeboy1487
02-09-2010, 02:33 AM
Are Laker fans (Kobe fans) mad that the Lakers are winning without him??? Hell yeah. They are making my boy look bad. Stupid lakers. I prefer if they lose instead of winning without Kobe. Those jerks. Seriously, if Orlando keeps winning, Dwight deserved to be in the discussion. Right now, Lebron is the clear cut MVP.

ARMIN12NBA
02-09-2010, 03:14 AM
Pissed. :p

Nah, Artest and Odom have been playing like monsters. Pau has been disappointing, but not everybody is going to play great. The other guys have stepped up in his absence and a win would be awesome tonight.

Posted around mid 3rd quarter. Pau ended up having a great all-around game. He wasn't effective offensively, but he got on the boards, got some blocks, and made some key passes.

Ovratd1up
02-09-2010, 03:32 AM
Posted around mid 3rd quarter. Pau ended up having a great all-around game. He wasn't effective offensively, but he got on the boards, got some blacks, and made some key passes.

Hmm, why does this seem wrong for the only white player in either starting lineup tonight?

tredigs
02-09-2010, 03:55 AM
Posted around mid 3rd quarter. Pau ended up having a great all-around game. He wasn't effective offensively, but he got on the boards, got some blacks, and made some key passes.

Pau Gasol: 21pts (8/20fg 5/5ft), 19rbs, 8ast, 1stl, 5blocks against a top five big of all time. Eh, I'd say he took the challenge well... I guess.

Lamar also stepped in huge, none of this is surprising. I think they're WAY better off with Kobe out for the time being to try to heal. This team is still a top 4-5 team in the west without him. I've been saying this for a month, glad it's getting to be a realized a bit.

They'll probably lose to Utah in Utah later this week, but everybody loses to Utah in Utah. And they'll take the 2-1 without Kobe going into the break.

My updated MVP voting would be:

1. Lebron (this isn't close, it is a little scary how good he is getting)

2. Durant (with the THUNDER at a top 6 seed in the West, I can't not)

3. Howard (Been absolutely beasting lately after a slow-er start)

4. Kobe (Tough SOB should finish as high as 2nd barring any lagging injuries)

JordansBulls
02-09-2010, 08:20 PM
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/02/05/racetothemvp.week14/

ManRam
02-09-2010, 08:42 PM
ESPN's. http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-100209/nba-awards-watch

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Durant
4. Dirk
5. Nash
6. Melo
7. Johnson
8. Howard
9. Bosh
10. Deron

They said: "It is officially a one-man race. No one leaves his fingerprints all over his team's games more than LeBron, who just lit up the Knicks for 47 points, 8 boards, 8 dimes and 5 thefts".

They kicked Timmy out for Deron. Finally dropping Melo more, and finally realized Durant is the clear #3.

They like Josh Smith as MIP (Noah, Landry, Gasol following).
Howard is still atop the DMVP. Kicked LeBron off the top 5.
Scott Brooks jumps to #1 in COTY
Jennings drops to #5 in ROTY (it's about damn time).
Landry jumped Crawford for 6th Man.

No major beefs with anything they said.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 09:26 PM
ESPN's. http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-100209/nba-awards-watch

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Durant
4. Dirk
5. Nash
6. Melo
7. Johnson
8. Howard
9. Bosh
10. Deron

They said: "It is officially a one-man race. No one leaves his fingerprints all over his team's games more than LeBron, who just lit up the Knicks for 47 points, 8 boards, 8 dimes and 5 thefts".

They kicked Timmy out for Deron. Finally dropping Melo more, and finally realized Durant is the clear #3.

They like Josh Smith as MIP (Noah, Landry, Gasol following).
Howard is still atop the DMVP. Kicked LeBron off the top 5.
Scott Brooks jumps to #1 in COTY
Jennings drops to #5 in ROTY (it's about damn time).
Landry jumped Crawford for 6th Man.

No major beefs with anything they said.

I don't like Dirk, Nash, JJ or Melo over Dwight.

The Mavs and Suns recently have struggled immensely, Atlanta is more team than any one guy and Melo hasn't played in two weeks. Durant has a legitimate case with their team surging of late, but Dwight has to get serious consideration over the rest of those guys.

ManRam
02-09-2010, 09:28 PM
I don't like Dirk, Nash, JJ or Melo over Dwight.

The Mavs and Suns recently have struggled immensely, Atlanta is more team than any one guy and Melo hasn't played in two weeks. Durant has a legitimate case with their team surging of late, but Dwight has to get serious consideration over the rest of those guys.

I can live with Dirk over Dwight...but the rest probably shouldn't be. Dwight has been unreal lately. He has been a bit inconsistent year-round though, that's probably all that is killing him.

Jays Claw
02-09-2010, 09:28 PM
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/02/05/racetothemvp.week14/

Carmelo Anthony hasn't played one game as of late and yet is fourth in the race? :eyebrow:

tredigs
02-09-2010, 09:54 PM
I can live with Dirk over Dwight...but the rest probably shouldn't be. Dwight has been unreal lately. He has been a bit inconsistent year-round though, that's probably all that is killing him.

Agreed, I'm fine with Dirk over Dwight, although that's a top 5 team in the NBA and without him they would be LOST. More so than anyone on that list short of LBJ and Durant. Funny he said something about wanting to put Durant over Kobe after the Spurs win w/ out Kobe, but didn't want to see the flooded inbox of distraught Laker fans. Melo at 4th is a complete oversight and horrible choice.

His ROY's and DPOY's are pretty spot on though, with Steph Curry trending up to 1st and Reke to 2nd IMO. Most improved with J-Smoove, Noah, Landry is all good too minus the omission of Aaron Brooks.

iggypop123
02-09-2010, 10:28 PM
i wouldnt be shocked if kobe doesnt receive a first place vote at all. last yr he was third in 1st place votes. when was the last consensus mvp where he got all 1st place votes?

TheKing23
02-09-2010, 10:35 PM
i wouldnt be shocked if kobe doesnt receive a first place vote at all. last yr he was third in 1st place votes. when was the last consensus mvp where he got all 1st place votes?

There's never been one.

Shaq received 124 out of 125 first place votes in 2000, with Iverson getting the other one.

I honestly think LeBron will be the first unanimous MVP this year, especially if he continues his level of play and Kobe continues to rest.

Raph12
02-09-2010, 10:55 PM
I can live with Dirk over Dwight...but the rest probably shouldn't be. Dwight has been unreal lately. He has been a bit inconsistent year-round though, that's probably all that is killing him.

Idk the Mavs haven't been playing well for a couple of weeks now, while Dwight's been playing outstandingly and the Magic have been winning for quite some time, he's 5th (behind Lebron, Kobe, Durant and Melo) in the R2MVP on NBA.com... The guys at ESPN need to show him some love.

iggypop123
02-09-2010, 11:35 PM
There's never been one.

Shaq received 124 out of 125 first place votes in 2000, with Iverson getting the other one.

I honestly think LeBron will be the first unanimous MVP this year, especially if he continues his level of play and Kobe continues to rest.

my god no one deserves to win unanimous if shaq didnt get it that yr. thats pathetic. whoever that voter was: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Wray77
02-09-2010, 11:38 PM
If Bosh doesn't receive consolidation than this will be traversedy.

Raph12
02-10-2010, 12:05 AM
Dirk and his Mavs are getting handled by the Nuggets tonight, making them 7-9 in their last 16 games.

Still think he's more deserving than Dwight at this point?

ManRam
02-10-2010, 12:09 AM
Dirk and his Mavs are getting handled by the Nuggets tonight, making them 7-9 in their last 16 games.

Still think he's more deserving than Dwight at this point?

No. I wont lie, I had no idea they were doing THAT terrible.

Eagles4Lyfe
02-10-2010, 01:11 AM
the nuggets killed the lakers and are 8-5 without carmello, its the other guy on the team Big shot Bob who should be there MVP candidate..Other then that i agree but we have to wait and see how season ends and where teams end up

ARMIN12NBA
02-10-2010, 01:17 AM
the nuggets killed the lakers and are 8-5 without carmello, its the other guy on the team Big shot Bob who should be there MVP candidate..Other then that i agree but we have to wait and see how season ends and where teams end up

Robert Horry signed with the Nuggets. Sweet. . .

Raph12
02-10-2010, 01:19 AM
the nuggets killed the lakers and are 8-5 without carmello, its the other guy on the team Big shot Bob who should be there MVP candidate..Other then that i agree but we have to wait and see how season ends and where teams end up

x2... I called it before the season began and even when everyone was riding the Melo bandwagon saying, he's scoring this and doing that, it all still comes right back to Billups.

Melo can win them games, but Billups will win them series.

SJSharksfan3186
02-10-2010, 03:07 AM
It's a head's up race between Kobe and LeBron. I think Durant is the sentimental pick and will one day be an MVP, but I think the hardware should go to Kobe just because of how clutch he's been even through all the injuries.

_KB24_
02-10-2010, 03:07 AM
Robert Horry signed with the Nuggets. Sweet. . .

WTF? Is this a joke or what?

ARMIN12NBA
02-10-2010, 03:15 AM
WTF? Is this a joke or what?

I was making a joke about his referring to Chauncey Billups as Big Shot "Bob."

_KB24_
02-10-2010, 03:18 AM
I was making a joke about his referring to Chauncey Billups as Big Shot "Bob."

AHA ok. :D

alencp3
02-10-2010, 11:58 AM
Deron Williams should get some consideration with the way the Jazz have been playing lately. I'm not expecting anything close to MVP though lol, just some credit for how good he has been lately.

Utah are good because of Boozer and Kirilenko recently

ManRam
02-10-2010, 11:30 PM
How do you guys think the Lakers hot streak without Kobe affects his MVP candidacy? I think LeBron has sealed up his second MVP in all honesty. Unless they absolutely blow it, and finish with like 30 losses...it's his. The Lakers playing this well, sadly, really hurts him IMO. I think he's buried.

Or unless the Thunder get the #1 seed in the West.

iggypop123
02-10-2010, 11:33 PM
like i said. kobe beat the cavs twice last yr and he still got the third most first place votes. this will be a sad year for kobe in the mvp standings. he may finish 4th. voters are like that. lebron has it wrapped up. no way should it be unanimous though

ManRam
02-10-2010, 11:35 PM
like i said. kobe beat the cavs twice last yr and he still got the third most first place votes. this will be a sad year for kobe in the mvp standings. he may finish 4th. voters are like that. lebron has it wrapped up. no way should it be unanimous though

At this rate, it should be unanimous.

I really can't think of a good argument for anyone but LeBron.

tredigs
02-11-2010, 12:01 AM
How do you guys think the Lakers hot streak without Kobe affects his MVP candidacy? I think LeBron has sealed up his second MVP in all honesty. Unless they absolutely blow it, and finish with like 30 losses...it's his. The Lakers playing this well, sadly, really hurts him IMO. I think he's buried.

Or unless the Thunder get the #1 seed in the West.

What it does is expose the Lakers for what they are. They're a team that plays better when Kobe does not try to do too much and effectively ruin their teams flow. Monta Ellis syndrome. It also is showing that the most important player to this teams success when Kobe plays like he has this year (and most of his career) is the big man down low. Shaq then, and Pau Gasol now. This isn't a Kobe bash, I think he's a great player, but he isn't Lebron. In fact I'm almost positive the Lakers are a better team with Durant, Wade, or obviously Lebron on their team than him. Offense would run much smoother without his ego.

The Lakers are currently crushing a Utah Jazz team at THEIR home (22-6 home) who are on a 9 game win streak.

Through THREE quarters tonight with the Lakers up 76-57 Pau is putting up:
18pts (8/13fg) 17rbs 4ast 1stl 3blks

In their win against SA and Tim Duncan his line was: 21/19/8ast with 5 blks

That's your team MVP, not Kobe. I don't want to hear that this is only three games, either. That is simply how good Pau and this team is when they aren't being over-controlled by Kobe.

That said, if Kobe can tune it down and play like a team player like he did in the playoffs last year? Fantastic, they are even tougher. But as far as regular season MVP goes? Kobe's not even in my top 5 anymore.

LBJ > Durant > Howard > Pau > Duncan > Kobe

jsumadchat
02-11-2010, 12:10 AM
im curious, but THEORETICALLY if the raps win the divison and end up with 50 wins, do you guys see bosh in the running for MVP?

WITZ
02-11-2010, 12:10 AM
Yup Durant has surpassed kobe for # 2 in the current standings, maybe hollinger or however it was that had Pau as the lakers MVP was on to something even thought i thought it was a joke at the time.

TheKing23
02-11-2010, 12:17 AM
im curious, but THEORETICALLY if the raps win the divison and end up with 50 wins, do you guys see bosh in the running for MVP?

No.

With LeBron and Kobe in the league the Raps would have to have the best record in the league by about a 5 game margin.

IF they win the division and get 50 wins he'd should be top 5 in voting, maybe top 3, but he wouldn't be close to overtaking LeBron.

jsumadchat
02-11-2010, 12:26 AM
No.

With LeBron and Kobe in the league the Raps would have to have the best record in the league by about a 5 game margin.

IF they win the division and get 50 wins he'd should be top 5 in voting, maybe top 3, but he wouldn't be close to overtaking LeBron.

i never said anything about overtaking lebron. i was only talking about votes. not even first place votes, just recognition if anything. its safe to say that the raps are a legit middle of the pack team ATM and i hope they have shed the "soft" label by now and continue to improve. they are right up there in hotstreaks with the cavs right now and we actually matchup well with you guys. i still think lebron will win the award hands down, but the raps have gone completely under the radar and everyone seems to think its "JUST a hot streak" we are 22-10 over the last 32 games, so i think its not just a streak anymore, but a team figuring itself out.

ManRam
02-11-2010, 12:30 AM
Bosh will get some votes. Not first place...but he'll definitely get some consideration. He's close to being in my top 5 and has the chance to improve his status.

ko8e24
02-11-2010, 12:39 AM
How do you guys think the Lakers hot streak without Kobe affects his MVP candidacy? I think LeBron has sealed up his second MVP in all honesty. Unless they absolutely blow it, and finish with like 30 losses...it's his. The Lakers playing this well, sadly, really hurts him IMO. I think he's buried.

Or unless the Thunder get the #1 seed in the West.

Let lebron take it for the next 7 yrs, cuz we'll be celebrating down figueroa with the parades in the meantime.

ManRam
02-11-2010, 12:40 AM
Let lebron take it for the next 7 yrs, cuz we'll be celebrating down figueroa with the parades in the meantime.

Good retort.

Lakersfan2483
02-11-2010, 12:54 AM
What it does is expose the Lakers for what they are. They're a team that plays better when Kobe does not try to do too much and effectively ruin their teams flow. Monta Ellis syndrome. It also is showing that the most important player to this teams success when Kobe plays like he has this year (and most of his career) is the big man down low. Shaq then, and Pau Gasol now. This isn't a Kobe bash, I think he's a great player, but he isn't Lebron. In fact I'm almost positive the Lakers are a better team with Durant, Wade, or obviously Lebron on their team than him. Offense would run much smoother without his ego.

The Lakers are currently crushing a Utah Jazz team at THEIR home (22-6 home) who are on a 9 game win streak.

Through THREE quarters tonight with the Lakers up 76-57 Pau is putting up:
18pts (8/13fg) 17rbs 4ast 1stl 3blks

In their win against SA and Tim Duncan his line was: 21/19/8ast with 5 blks

That's your team MVP, not Kobe. I don't want to hear that this is only three games, either. That is simply how good Pau and this team is when they aren't being over-controlled by Kobe.

That said, if Kobe can tune it down and play like a team player like he did in the playoffs last year? Fantastic, they are even tougher. But as far as regular season MVP goes? Kobe's not even in my top 5 anymore.

LBJ > Durant > Howard > Pau > Duncan > Kobe

3 good games from Pau doesn't make him the team MVP. The Lakers go as far as Kobe takes them, not Gasol. It's funny how you laker/Kobe haters come out in full force when Kobe's hurt and the team wins a few games. Gasol is a great 2nd option and is our team's 2nd best player, but that's it. In terms of winning a title and making a push, Kobe sets the standard for this team. He's been doing it all season long, playing through multiple injuries and what not. When Pau was out for 17 games, Kobe kept the team in 1st place and avg. 33 points on 50pct shooting, while occupying Gaso's spot in the post. He fascilitated the offense and kept the team playing at an extremely high level despite injuries to both Pau and Ron Artest. The team didn't miss a beat without Pau just as you are eluding to them not missing a beat without Kobe. All of that said, they don't win a title without the 1-2 punch of Kobe and Gasol.

Everyone knows the Lakers have some of the best talent in the NBA, but a small sample size of 3 games doesn't dissprove that Kobe is the team's MVP. Its funny you didn't account for all the other games he played in and all of the great perfomances he's had this year. I just find it funny that so many people come out in droves just because LA won 3 straight games and Kobe has been out. A lot of superstars have been out and their respective teams have been winning. (See Hornets without Chris Paul, See the Celtics without KG) A few yrs. back, I remember the Rockets winning 17 straight games, without Yao and T-Mac. It's not as if it's uncommon to see a team win without it's superstar. Guys step up and understand it's their job as a professional to step up and contribute even more.

*I remember the Bulls doing extremely well the year after Jordan retired despite losing him, does that diminish Jordan's value and importance to the team? Another question for you, how do you explain the team still doing great despite losing Michael to retirement? They didn't add any superstars around Pippen either. So, does that diminish Michael's value and prove that Scottie was the real MVP? Simply put, no it does not diminish MJ's value, that team was still good without Michael, but MJ was the difference between winning a title and just making it to the playoffs. The same can be said for Kobe Bryant and or any other major superstar.

_KB24_
02-11-2010, 12:57 AM
Kobe misses 3 games and people have started with the crap already. :facepalm:

ManRam
02-11-2010, 01:00 AM
Kobe misses 3 games and people have started with the crap already. :facepalm:

I don't think really anyone is talking ****...

You can't deny that three wins without Kobe hurts his MVP candidacy. It's kind of ****ed up, but it is the truth. Is it not?

Maybe tredigs is, but he is making valid points. How about refuting them rather than just coming in here and complaining..

iggypop123
02-11-2010, 01:14 AM
kobe was never going to win it, but that wraps it up for now. nothing really nuts about it. the only thing would be if he was unanimus. that would be absurd, otherwise congrats lebron you already won it

ManRam
02-11-2010, 01:15 AM
kobe was never going to win it, but that wraps it up for now. nothing really nuts about it. the only thing would be if he was unanimus. that would be absurd, otherwise congrats lebron you already won it

I still don't get why it shouldn't be unanimous. If he his the clear choice, then every voter should vote for him. It's as simple as that.

ChiSox219
02-11-2010, 01:21 AM
lol!!!!!!!!!!!

still1ballin
02-11-2010, 01:30 AM
I don't think really anyone is talking ****...

You can't deny that three wins without Kobe hurts his MVP candidacy. It's kind of ****ed up, but it is the truth. Is it not?

Maybe tredigs is, but he is making valid points. How about refuting them rather than just coming in here and complaining..

Do you hate Kobe?

tredigs
02-11-2010, 01:35 AM
3 good games from Pau doesn't make him the team MVP. The Lakers go as far as Kobe takes them, not Gasol. It's funny how you laker/Kobe haters come out in full force when Kobe's hurt and the team wins a few games. Gasol is a great 2nd option and is our team's 2nd best player, but that's it. In terms of winning a title and making a push, Kobe sets the standard for this team. He's been doing it all season long, playing through multiple injuries and what not. When Pau was out for 17 games, Kobe kept the team in 1st place and avg. 33 points on 50pct shooting, while occupying Gaso's spot in the post. He fascilitated the offense and kept the team playing at an extremely high level despite injuries to both Pau and Ron Artest. The team didn't miss a beat without Pau just as you are eluding to them not missing a beat without Kobe. All of that said, they don't win a title without the 1-2 punch of Kobe and Gasol.

Everyone knows the Lakers have some of the best talent in the NBA, but a small sample size of 3 games doesn't dissprove that Kobe is the team's MVP. Its funny you didn't account for all the other games he played in and all of the great perfomances he's had this year. I just find it funny that so many people come out in droves just because LA won 3 straight games and Kobe has been out. A lot of superstars have been out and their respective teams have been winning. (See Hornets without Chris Paul, See the Celtics without KG) A few yrs. back, I remember the Rockets winning 17 straight games, without Yao and T-Mac. It's not as if it's uncommon to see a team win without it's superstar. Guys step up and understand it's their job as a professional to step up and contribute even more.


They're 11-6 without Pau, and so far 3-0 against 3 western conference playoff teams without Kobe. Your points are all over the map and I don't really have the energy to deal with them right now because I'm watching the Rookie of the Year (Steph Curry) put up a triple double and seeing the Warriors decimate the Clippers. Now that Monta is finally out of the lineup for a night and not unnecessarily stagnating their offense, it's allowing the Warriors pure shooters to actually find a rhythm and do work. Hmmm... reminds me of something...

And to the dude above, no, I'm not a Kobe hater in the least. I like him as a person a lot more than I like Lebron actually (not Durant tho, that kid is too humble to dislike in the least), but I just don't think Kobe deserves to be in MVP contention against players like LBJ, Durant, Howard, etc; Who are obviously so much more valuable to their teams success. Saying Pau is the team MVP over Kobe may be a SLIGHT stretch, but trust me it ain't much. I wish he would sit out a month so I could get a better feel for that argument.

Also, to the random Laker homers who just think I'm just coming out of the woodwork about this now, check my post history, I've been saying this about Kobe and the Lakers for quite a while here, and a lot longer in the non-interweb world.

ManRam
02-11-2010, 01:40 AM
Do you hate Kobe?

Did my post sound like hate?

still1ballin
02-11-2010, 01:48 AM
Did my post sound like hate?

Well I've read a lot of your post, and when it deals with Kobe, sometimes it sounds like you put him down a lot.

Raph12
02-11-2010, 01:50 AM
I honestly think people are looking too deeply into these past 3 games...

I also think LBJ will win MVP, but saying that Pau is the Lakers Team MVP over Kobe is just plain ridiculous and I won't even dignify it by responding to any further notions of the thought.

ManRam
02-11-2010, 01:53 AM
Well I've read a lot of your post, and when it deals with Kobe, sometimes it sounds like you put him down a lot.

Ask Raph, or any other Magic fan. I put Dwight down a lot, but I love him to death. I'm not going to ignore a player's flaws. I'm not going to blindly think that anyone is perfect. I've said many negative things about Kobe, and I've said many positive things. If you can't tell if I hate him...then that's your answer.

I will admit that I prefer LeBron to Kobe, however. But I do not hate Kobe...not at all.

still1ballin
02-11-2010, 01:57 AM
Ask Raph, or any other Magic fan. I put Dwight down a lot, but I love him to death. I'm not going to ignore a player's flaws. I'm not going to blindly think that anyone is perfect. I've said many negative things about Kobe, and I've said many positive things. If you can't tell if I hate him...then that's your answer.

I will admit that I prefer LeBron to Kobe, however. But I do not hate Kobe...not at all.

Fair enough

tredigs
02-11-2010, 01:57 AM
I honestly think people are looking too deeply into these past 3 games...

I also think LBJ will win MVP, but saying that Pau is the Lakers Team MVP over Kobe is just plain ridiculous and I won't even dignify it by responding to any further notions of the thought.

Well, thanks for letting everyone know that you won't be responding to the post. I was on pins and needles.

Regardless, we've still got an entire half of ball to play. No reason to count our chickens yet. (Steph Curry with 36pts [11-22fg 7/11thr] 13ast 10reb 3stl DAMN SON!)

_KB24_
02-11-2010, 02:09 AM
I don't think really anyone is talking ****...

You can't deny that three wins without Kobe hurts his MVP candidacy. It's kind of ****ed up, but it is the truth. Is it not?

Maybe tredigs is, but he is making valid points. How about refuting them rather than just coming in here and complaining..

I'm not complaining. It's been ****ing three games and people are basing it as a whole season. If Dwight were to go down, and Carter began to return to his old form, is he their new MVP? No because Dwight is the anchor of that team, just as Kobe is to the Lakers.

Lakersfan2483
02-11-2010, 02:43 AM
They're 11-6 without Pau, and so far 3-0 against 3 western conference playoff teams without Kobe. Your points are all over the map and I don't really have the energy to deal with them right now because I'm watching the Rookie of the Year (Steph Curry) put up a triple double and seeing the Warriors decimate the Clippers. Now that Monta is finally out of the lineup for a night and not unnecessarily stagnating their offense, it's allowing the Warriors pure shooters to actually find a rhythm and do work. Hmmm... reminds me of something... And to the dude above, no, I'm not a Kobe hater in the least. I like him as a person a lot more than I like Lebron actually (not Durant tho, that kid is too humble to dislike in the least), but I just don't think Kobe deserves to be in MVP contention against players like LBJ, Durant, Howard, etc; Who are obviously so much more valuable to their teams success. Saying Pau is the team MVP over Kobe may be a SLIGHT stretch, but trust me it ain't much. I wish he would sit out a month so I could get a better feel for that argument.


Also, to the random Laker homers who just think I'm just coming out of the woodwork about this now, check my post history, I've been saying this about Kobe and the Lakers for quite a while here, and a lot longer in the non-interweb world.


The Ellis and Kobe comparison is one of the worst I have heard on this site. You can't compare Ellis' style of play to Kobe Bryant's in terms of how they fit in their respective teams. Bad comparison and bad argument. Don't put him and Kobe in the same sentence. Ellis is a volume scorer and a chuker and Bryant is not. Kobe's shooting numbers went up when Gasol and Artest were out and he was inserted into the post. Go check Kobe's number of shots and you will see that his numbers have gone down since people have gotten healthy. He's had a few games in which his number of shots have gone up, but he's more aggressive when the team is sluggish and not performing up to par. He reads the flow of the game.

Lakersfan2483
02-11-2010, 02:44 AM
I honestly think people are looking too deeply into these past 3 games...

I also think LBJ will win MVP, but saying that Pau is the Lakers Team MVP over Kobe is just plain ridiculous and I won't even dignify it by responding to any further notions of the thought.

Finally someone who understands basketball, in particular Lakers' basketball.:clap: I am done responding as well, it's a bad argument and not worth the time.

tredigs
02-11-2010, 02:56 AM
The Ellis and Kobe comparison is one of the worst I have heard on this site. You can't compare Ellis' style of play to Kobe Bryant's in terms of how they fit in their respective teams. Bad comparison and bad argument. Don't put him and Kobe in the same sentence. Ellis is a volume scorer and a chuker and Bryant is not. Kobe's shooting numbers went up when Gasol and Artest were out and he was inserted into the post. Go check Kobe's number of shots and you will see that his numbers have gone down since people have gotten healthy. He's had a few games in which his number of shots have gone up, but he's more aggressive when the team is sluggish and not performing up to par. He reads the flow of the game.

It was an offhanded comment and really not something that matters, but while we're at it?

Okay, fine. Since November 19th when Pau got back:

Kobe = 27.1 pts/g on 22 fga/g at 45.4%

Monta = 26.2 pts/g on 22.3 fga/g at 46.2% [Full season]

Kobe is shooting 46.1% on 22.4 fga/g for the season.

These shooting numbers are nearly identical. And Monta has been relied upon HEAVILY this year being that he is the #1 option and they had exactly zero low post presence for more than half of this year. That said, if he wanted to truly help his team he would've let Steph run the offense much more and also found Morrow a LOT more. That kid is one of the top 5 shooters in this league, just doesn't get enough touches.

So, actually yeah, despite your unrelenting love for 24, The Monta/Kobe comparison in this context is very relatable. I vote "Good comparison, Good argument".

Lakersfan2483
02-11-2010, 03:46 AM
It was an offhanded comment and really not something that matters, but while we're at it?

Okay, fine. Since November 19th when Pau got back:

Kobe = 27.1 pts/g on 22 fga/g at 45.4%

Monta = 26.2 pts/g on 22.3 fga/g at 46.2% [Full season]

Kobe is shooting 46.1% on 22.4 fga/g for the season.

These shooting numbers are nearly identical. And Monta has been relied upon HEAVILY this year being that he is the #1 option and they had exactly zero low post presence for more than half of this year. That said, if he wanted to truly help his team he would've let Steph run the offense much more and also found Morrow a LOT more. That kid is one of the top 5 shooters in this league, just doesn't get enough touches.

So, actually yeah, despite your unrelenting love for 24, The Monta/Kobe comparison in this context is very relatable. I vote "Good comparison, Good argument".

All of the top scorers in the NBA shoot a minimum of 20 or more shots per contest. Kobe avgs. 22 per contest, Wade avgs. 20, Melo avgs. 22, Lebron avgs 20, and Durant avgs. 20. The old school players like Jordan and Jerry West averaged 20 plus shots for their career also. That said, it's not the number of shots but moreso the type of shots taken and whether or not the player is efficient in terms of scoring. Ellis takes a lot of bad shots that aren't within the flow of the game whereas players like Bryant and Wade, etc.. take quality shots within the flow of the game and don't disrupt the offensive flow of their respective teams.... The difference between Kobe and Monta in terms of shooting is like night and day. Like I said earlier, Monta is a chucker/shooter and volume scorer and Bryant is not..... The Kobe/Monta comparison is terrible and not even a legit argument no matter what the context.

tredigs
02-11-2010, 04:26 AM
All of the top scorers in the NBA shoot a minimum of 20 or more shots per contest. Kobe avgs. 22 per contest, Wade avgs. 20, Melo avgs. 22, Lebron avgs 20, and Durant avgs. 20. The old school players like Jordan and Jerry West averaged 20 plus shots for their career also. That said, it's not the number of shots but moreso the type of shots taken and whether or not the player is efficient in terms of scoring. Ellis takes a lot of bad shots that aren't within the flow of the game whereas players like Bryant and Wade, etc.. take quality shots within the flow of the game and don't disrupt the offensive flow of their respective teams.... The difference between Kobe and Monta in terms of shooting is like night and day. Like I said earlier, Monta is a chucker/shooter and volume scorer and Bryant is not..... The Kobe/Monta comparison is terrible and not even a legit argument no matter what the context.


I'll keep it brief and move it away from Monta because you're missing my point, but shot selection and rhythm shooting is exactly what I think Kobe struggles with (granted not to the extent that Monta does, but both have this problem). He's had this issue his entire career. I live in California and every fair/objective Laker fan I know readily acknowledges this and wouldn't even bother to argue it for a minute. It's his widely known achilles heel, which is why when he put his ego aside during the playoffs last year and deferred to his teammates so much in order to win, it was a pretty big surprise and definitely the catalyst to their championship.

When you're the #1 on a championship caliber team that is as offensively potent as the 09/10 Lakers, you have to defer more than he does in order to keep the offense fluid. Durant and Wade and even Lebron SHOULD be taking 20+ shots a game on their respective teams, simply because the rest of their team can't produce like they can, and they are all more efficient offensively than Kobe is. Kobe should not be taking 22+ on this Laker team. 17-19 would be an ideal average for a team like that. There's countless stats to back this up, but I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this argument.

ChiSox219
02-11-2010, 05:51 PM
[/B]

Please, they wouldn't get out of the first round with LO as the featured player, now you are just talking nonsense. I like Lamar, but he's a role player and Kobe is a superstar and one of the greatest players of all time. He's the most important player on the Lakers, period. Case closed.

Oh word? You don't think the Lakers could get out of the first round? I think they can and proved it yesterday by beating the hottest team in the league in Utah, one of the toughest places in the league to win.


Are you high? Where the hell did you even come up with that :speechless:

:p



Good thing you don't work with a basketball organization in any capacity, whether it be scouting, managing, etc. That is so blatantly wrong that I wouldn't know where to start.

Funny, Wayne Winston IS employed by an NBA franchise and Kobe fans tore him apart for his claims that 24 is really not that great.


I'll keep it brief and move it away from Monta because you're missing my point, but shot selection and rhythm shooting is exactly what I think Kobe struggles with (granted not to the extent that Monta does, but both have this problem). He's had this issue his entire career. I live in California and every fair/objective Laker fan I know readily acknowledges this and wouldn't even bother to argue it for a minute. It's his widely known achilles heel, which is why when he put his ego aside during the playoffs last year and deferred to his teammates so much in order to win, it was a pretty big surprise and definitely the catalyst to their championship.

When you're the #1 on a championship caliber team that is as offensively potent as the 09/10 Lakers, you have to defer more than he does in order to keep the offense fluid. Durant and Wade and even Lebron SHOULD be taking 20+ shots a game on their respective teams, simply because the rest of their team can't produce like they can, and they are all more efficient offensively than Kobe is. Kobe should not be taking 22+ on this Laker team. 17-19 would be an ideal average for a team like that. There's countless stats to back this up, but I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this argument.

Tredigs, you make another great post and I enjoying reading what you have to say. I agree totally with your post.

ManRam
02-11-2010, 06:09 PM
I'm not complaining. It's been ****ing three games and people are basing it as a whole season. If Dwight were to go down, and Carter began to return to his old form, is he their new MVP? No because Dwight is the anchor of that team, just as Kobe is to the Lakers.

I do agree that you can't extrapolate anything from these past three games besides the fact that it hurts Kobe's MVP chances...and since he was already significantly behind, it effectively buries him.

It doesn't mean they are better without him. It doesn't mean Pau should be their go-to guy nor does it mean he is their MVP. It doesn't mean Kobe should change his style of play. All it shows is that that Laker team is pretty darn good without him.

But I do definitely agree with those who say Kobe should allow the offense to come to him more than he does at times...and I've agreed all year that Pau and Bynum (mainly Pau, I respect him a gazillion more times than Drew) do need more shots, and should get more touches. That is accomplished by the wing players and guards looking for them more. Sometimes he doesn't follow the rhythm of the offense. If this stretch of three games shows us anything basketball-related (not MVP-related), it is that he doesn't have to be the offense, he can just be a part of it.