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View Full Version : How good was Kobe back in 2000?



Chronz
01-28-2010, 07:25 PM
Personal 2K project of mine (recreating the 2000 Season) mostly because of how many good swings were out or about to burst out. And the thought occurred to me, how good would you say Kobe was vs his peers, be it other guards like Jason Kidd, or focusing primarily on swings (like Grant Hill). Im not asking for best SG, I need more competition to gauge him correctly so these are the facts;

All-Star Selections
G:Kidd, GP, Stockton, Ray Allen, Houston, Iverson, Jones, Reggie, Stackhouse
Swings: Vince, Hill, Glenndog, Finley

All-NBA Teams:
G: Kidd and Gary made 1st team, Kobe shared 2nd team with Iverson for G's
Swings: Grant Hill made 2nd team, Vince made 3rd team at F, ditto for Eddie Jones only at G. (Point being its harder to make it as a F when your a swingman competing against the likes of dominant bigs)

All-Defensive Teams:
G: Kobe & GP (1st Teamers), Jones, Kidd at 2nd team
Swings: Pippen made 2nd team for the last time I think

MVP PTS
Payton: 180
Iverson: 132
Hill: 113
Vince: 51
Kidd: 25
Kobe: 3
Finley: 1
Miller: 1
Darrel Armstrong WTF: 1

pd7631
01-28-2010, 07:32 PM
MVP PTS
Payton: 180
Iverson: 132
Hill: 113
Vince: 51
Kidd: 25
Kobe: 3
Finley: 1
Miller: 1
Darrel Armstrong WTF: 1


LMAO :laugh:

ko8e24
01-28-2010, 07:36 PM
How good was Kobe back in 2000?

Well, he had an improving jumpshot, but nowhere near when he really started to take off in his jump shooting ability in the 2002-2003 NBA Season. But, he was AUTOMATIC in that 15-18 ft turn around fade away baseline jumper with a man in his grill.

He was perhaps the 2nd best perimeter defender in the entire league behind Gary Payton. And Kobe could flat out SHUT YOU DOWN!

And he was the 2nd most exciting dunker in that era behind Vince Carter, but he was the best in "hangtime" when he'd drive to the lane, get body contact from 2-3 guys, and still be able to finish, staying in the air for a very long time.


Oh, and that Fro of his was gangsta! lol

kblo247
01-28-2010, 07:36 PM
Below GP, Kidd, Hill, and AI

On par with Stockton who was going through a getting older adjustment phase, as he was going though an I'm a starter and the guard now phase

Ahead of the rest because though he fought the triangle initially he was still LA's primary perimeter defender while the others were more one dimensional or in Eddie's case disappeared when needed most

fresh prince
01-28-2010, 07:39 PM
Dude Darrel Armstrong was a stud in 2000!

Plus everyone loved him casue he was small and scrappy. Kinda the underdog

Kinda Like how Steve Nash won 2 MVP's.... Without Armstrong being as good of course.

But he did put up: 16 ppg 7 apg and 2.2 SPG per game that year.

But Kobe in 2000 was basically a slasher athlete with great D. He ahd yet to really find his long range Jumpshot as stated above. Think Andre Iguadala with better handles and on ball defensive skills.

The Next year 2000 - 2001 was where the Kobe we all see today started to take form.

blams
01-28-2010, 07:57 PM
Armstong :speechless:

td0tsfinest
01-28-2010, 08:30 PM
he's a lot better now than he was in the early 2000s.

igPay atinLay
01-28-2010, 08:32 PM
he's a lot better now than he was in the early 2000s.

He certainly is better today but...

Do you think that Kobe was an HOF'er in the early 2000's or was he just really good?

jim51990
01-28-2010, 08:38 PM
not as good as lebron was at his age

td0tsfinest
01-28-2010, 08:38 PM
He certainly is better today but...

Do you think that Kobe was an HOF'er in the early 2000's or was he just really good?

That's a good question.

I think he would have been in the HOF. But, some people might debate him being a first ballot HOFer. He was always a great scorer. But his game from then to now is completely different. He went from a guy who constantly slashed into the paint to guy who has one of the best jumpers in the game. His pull up has greatly improved.

3RDASYSTEM
01-28-2010, 09:03 PM
He was a good player and his D was overrated then as it is now, trust me he wanted no parts of AI in 01 FINALS or when they first came in league and i've seen KOBE hold AI to bad shootin games just like i've seen AI cross KOBE out of the TV screen and drop 40 quite few times, not that i blame him cuz nobody wanted no parts of that dude at that time....KOBE was club footed and he had decent hops but not no V.CARTER/LEBRON or even a healthy TMAC back then...KOBE got a pass for playin in L.A. and basing/stealing/robbing his whole game off of the GOAT(MJ) and everybody acts like he ''wants'' to be better than MJ which is ridiculous....he wants to ''be'' MJ, funny thing is my cousin who is a real big KOBE fan said he quit trying to act like MJ after his rape charge in 04 and then goes on to tell me that KOBE took MJ's interview/walk/talk but not his ''GAME'' and this is coming from real big KOBE fan....now you tell me is that a joke or what...But understand when i say he took MJ game its not the '''COME FLY WIT ME JORDAN''(he was way too fast and catquick for KOBE to ever duplicate,he was like a 6'6 A.I. basically) but the 2nd 3peat old man pump fakin fadeaway MJ,thats the MJ im talking bout...when i watch KOBE play i call him JORDAN cuz thats what i see, and trust me im from Midwest so i watched pretty much all BULLS games on WGN...now feel free to respond but make sure you know wat you talking bout cuz i do...alot of you guys on here dont have a clue wats going on...somebody need to man up on here and quit nut ridin...call a spade a spade

kobe24>lebron23
01-28-2010, 09:07 PM
put it this way after that season was when he really became the best plyer in the league just ask shaq

Hawkeye15
01-28-2010, 09:21 PM
without bother with stats, I remember him being a good slasher who attacked, was an above average defender, and had already figured out how to get ot the line. He was a pretty average shooter, but had incredible athletic ability, and had the freedom from the big fella down low.
He showed even at that age a killer instinct, and anyone who knew anything about basketball could tell he was gonna be a balla'

ko8e24
01-28-2010, 09:26 PM
He was a good player and his D was overrated then as it is now, trust me he wanted no parts of AI in 01 FINALS or when they first came in league and i've seen KOBE hold AI to bad shootin games just like i've seen AI cross KOBE out of the TV screen and drop 40 quite few times, not that i blame him cuz nobody wanted no parts of that dude at that time....KOBE was club footed and he had decent hops but not no V.CARTER/LEBRON or even a healthy TMAC back then...KOBE got a pass for playin in L.A. and basing/stealing/robbing his whole game off of the GOAT(MJ) and everybody acts like he ''wants'' to be better than MJ which is ridiculous....he wants to ''be'' MJ, funny thing is my cousin who is a real big KOBE fan said he quit trying to act like MJ after his rape charge in 04 and then goes on to tell me that KOBE took MJ's interview/walk/talk but not his ''GAME'' and this is coming from real big KOBE fan....now you tell me is that a joke or what...But understand when i say he took MJ game its not the '''COME FLY WIT ME JORDAN''(he was way too fast and catquick for KOBE to ever duplicate,he was like a 6'6 A.I. basically) but the 2nd 3peat old man pump fakin fadeaway MJ,thats the MJ im talking bout...when i watch KOBE play i call him JORDAN cuz thats what i see, and trust me im from Midwest so i watched pretty much all BULLS games on WGN...now feel free to respond but make sure you know wat you talking bout cuz i do...alot of you guys on here dont have a clue wats going on...somebody need to man up on here and quit nut ridin...call a spade a spade



What a waste of typing :rolleyes:

ARMIN12NBA
01-28-2010, 10:10 PM
In terms of J. Kidd, the Suns tried to offer Kidd to get Kobe so do we rank Kobe above him? Not sure. Kobe was an elite defender though and an explosive offensive weapon as well as the Lakers go to player in the 4th quarter.

kblo247
01-28-2010, 10:16 PM
In terms of J. Kidd, the Suns tried to offer Kidd to get Kobe so do we rank Kobe above him? Not sure. Kobe was an elite defender though and an explosive offensive weapon as well as the Lakers go to player in the 4th quarter.

And Marion in a 2 for 1 that Phil wanted to happen but Jerry shot down

I think the Suns thought Kobe and Penny would be a deadly duo if Penny could recreate his magic more so than them thinking less of Kidd, plus still Kidd was still having that up and down relationship with his crazy *** wife

Raps18-19 Champ
01-28-2010, 10:17 PM
Pretty good.

I think top 10 player in the league.

ko8e24
01-28-2010, 10:26 PM
The top 5 players in the league in the year 2000 were....

1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Allen Iverson
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Kobe Bryant

RaiderLakersA's
01-28-2010, 10:50 PM
Somehow I think it's always going to be this way. Mention Kobe's name and some of the respondents will say he was overrated without showing stats, others will say he was overrated while showing stats, and the rest will run down a laundary list of players which they felt (read: "opined") were better than him. Sigh.

Whatever else Kobe was in 2000, he was the man-child who helped the Lakers to a title against then top Eastern conference seed Indiana. No one remembers Kobe getting injured and being out of game 3 (Indy won), and many more seem to forget that Kobe played with a bum ankle in game 4 in Indianapollis, pulling out the win when O'neal fouled out in OT. It was Kobe nailing 3 clutch shots to seal the victory ON THE ROAD. (The Lakers won that series 4 - 2). Mention all of the AI's, McGrady's, VC's, LBJ's, Kidd's, etc., etc., ad nauseum, but not one of them can say that they've played as big a role in the shadow of a beast at the Finals level. Not one of them.

vash9
01-28-2010, 11:13 PM
Kobe back then, i don't remember him being anything near to what he is right now.

biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig change.

_KB24_
01-28-2010, 11:23 PM
Man, the fro' was sweet. He was one of the most exciting players in the league. A completely different player than he is today. He heavily relied on his athleticism and was one of the best playmakers in the league. He played more of the role of a PG than a SG. I saw some of the best passes I have ever seen between him and Shaq. I have Iverson clearly ahead of him, but you can argue he was on par with Kidd, Hill, and Payton.

amos1er
01-28-2010, 11:29 PM
He was a good player and his D was overrated then as it is now, trust me he wanted no parts of AI in 01 FINALS or when they first came in league and i've seen KOBE hold AI to bad shootin games just like i've seen AI cross KOBE out of the TV screen and drop 40 quite few times, not that i blame him cuz nobody wanted no parts of that dude at that time....KOBE was club footed and he had decent hops but not no V.CARTER/LEBRON or even a healthy TMAC back then...KOBE got a pass for playin in L.A. and basing/stealing/robbing his whole game off of the GOAT(MJ) and everybody acts like he ''wants'' to be better than MJ which is ridiculous....he wants to ''be'' MJ, funny thing is my cousin who is a real big KOBE fan said he quit trying to act like MJ after his rape charge in 04 and then goes on to tell me that KOBE took MJ's interview/walk/talk but not his ''GAME'' and this is coming from real big KOBE fan....now you tell me is that a joke or what...But understand when i say he took MJ game its not the '''COME FLY WIT ME JORDAN''(he was way too fast and catquick for KOBE to ever duplicate,he was like a 6'6 A.I. basically) but the 2nd 3peat old man pump fakin fadeaway MJ,thats the MJ im talking bout...when i watch KOBE play i call him JORDAN cuz thats what i see, and trust me im from Midwest so i watched pretty much all BULLS games on WGN...now feel free to respond but make sure you know wat you talking bout cuz i do...alot of you guys on here dont have a clue wats going on...somebody need to man up on here and quit nut ridin...call a spade a spade

Everytime I see a new Kobe hater I am always in shock. What ridiculous bias BS at that. No examples, only opinions to justify the hate.....that is how you know a true hater. :facepalm:

amos1er
01-28-2010, 11:32 PM
The top 5 players in the league in the year 2000 were....

1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Allen Iverson
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Kobe Bryant

Then in 2001 it was.....

1. Shaquille O'Neal/Kobe Bryant
2. Tim Duncan
3. Allen Iverson
4. Kevin Garnett

Lakersfan2483
01-28-2010, 11:42 PM
2000 was Kobe's breakout season. He became a defensive stopper that year and was one of the top wing players in the entire NBA. He was the Lakers go to guy in the 4th quarter. He really came on strong during the postseason prior to injuring his ankle in the finals.

Chronz
01-29-2010, 04:25 AM
What move or weapon was lacking in his arsenal? I put his pull up game down abit, changed his handles abit and made him more turnover prone, what do you guys make of his passing game, his assists werent at the levels they would soon get to. Despite the all-defensive selection I think the best defensive guard would go to either Kobe, Kidd, or Eddie. His post game wasnt as refined but I do recall him going down to the blocks on GP actually.

What perimeter players at that time would you say had a better midrange game?

While we're on the subject what major differences came in his game year by year? When did his slashing really start to dwindle?

Chronz
01-29-2010, 04:27 AM
2000 was Kobe's breakout season. He became a defensive stopper that year and was one of the top wing players in the entire NBA. He was the Lakers go to guy in the 4th quarter. He really came on strong during the postseason prior to injuring his ankle in the finals.

I think his main competition that year (from swings) came in the form of Grant Hill (Putting up something like 26-7-5 on great %'s, this was his last year before the ankle problems.

This is how I have it currently
In terms of Guards, GP and Kidd are at 88, Hill is at 86, Vince at 85, Kobe is at 88

How would you rate Kobe year to year from 2000 and up?
2000 85-88
2001 89-90
2002 95
2003 96
2004 93
2005 90
06-07 97
08 to now 96

Chronz
01-29-2010, 04:38 AM
not as good as lebron was at his age

Its very debateable but please dont bring that in here, Bron wasnt even in the league yet.

ko8e24
01-29-2010, 05:15 AM
Then in 2001 it was.....

1. Shaquille O'Neal/Kobe Bryant
2. Tim Duncan
3. Allen Iverson
4. Kevin Garnett

I would put AI over DUncan, cuz that yr, AI, while leading the Sixers to the 01 finals, was also the scoring champion, the regular season league mvp, and all-star game mvp.

So I would go with

1. Shaq
2. AI
3. Kobe
4. Duncan
5. KG


And I know why you're saying Kobe tied with Shaq. I completely understand. If I remember correctly, that season, Kobe avg 28.5 PPG right behind Shaq's team high 28.7 PPG. Shaq dropped down 1.0 PPG from the previous season (29.7 PPG) while Kobe improved by 6.0 PPG from the previous season (22.5 PPG)


And Yes, Kobe dominated the Kings in the 2nd rd along with the Spurs in the WCF, which led to sweeps of those 2 teams. Shaq did most of the damage against the sweep of the Blazers in the 1st rd.


And then of course, Kobe's studness and nobody being able to guard the dominant SHAQ in the 01 finals helped them win a chip against Phili in 5 games. (WHICH REminds me....2nite....9 yrs later, Kobe and the Lakeshow visit AI and the Sixers :))


AHHH, the memories!

JasonJohnHorn
01-29-2010, 09:22 AM
Kobe had emereged as a great player that year for sure. He was still putting up circus shots and making bad shoot choices in the playoffs, and obviously wasn't close to earning the first option spot on the Lakers (that was still Shaq's obviously), but he was as good as any SF or SG in the league. Carter had more points, but kobe was a better defender (and I will agree with anybody who says he is overrated on D, but he is still a great defender and better than Carter on D), and he had better rebounding and assist numbers than Carter. He was not where is now, obviously, but the leading scoring in the back court at the time was a 6 foot Iverson who was playing the scoring-point guard role and he worked well for Philly around that time (finals in 01). Grant Hill put up better numbers on a poor team and was about to enter his injury-plagued era and McGrady was still a baby just then.

So he was top five for sure, like Grant Hill and VC were the only guys that one could argue were better or as good as Kobe that season on the wing. Stackhouse would be in the conversation then, but he's be in fourth. Not really fair to compare point guards like Iverson or Payton.

xxxplicit69
01-29-2010, 09:58 AM
Below GP, Kidd, Hill, and AI

On par with Stockton who was going through a getting older adjustment phase, as he was going though an I'm a starter and the guard now phase

Ahead of the rest because though he fought the triangle initially he was still LA's primary perimeter defender while the others were more one dimensional or in Eddie's case disappeared when needed most

A.I. was the 76ers, so i wouldn't say he disappeared when needed most. A lot of ppl really forget how good A.I was. At one point he was the man in the NBA, hince why he won the MVP award the very next season 2000-2001.

Iron24th
01-29-2010, 10:26 AM
Kobe was really good,nowhere near where he is right now,but already pretty good.

CELTICS4LYFE
01-29-2010, 11:49 AM
He was just as good as he is now! Mayb a lil better shooter leader n more eff. now

Raph12
01-29-2010, 11:52 AM
His game really started to take off in the 2002-03 season, before that, he was good but not great.

3RDASYSTEM
01-29-2010, 12:06 PM
Yo KO8E24...explain what a waste of typing, thats wat the hell im talkin bout with half all yall non playing just watching games and listening to what others say, but you HIGHLIGHT my GREAT analysis and its well documented if you followed and watched the old man MJ game and thangs like that, man i understand the media and all that so at least put why its a waste of typing and explain why he DIDNT steal MJ entire blueprint/game or why he reminds you of the FIRST of his kiind, the only time he one upped on MJ was his number change to 24 ..and thats where it ends

Chronz
01-29-2010, 01:28 PM
You guys remember when Kobe got big back in 03, what was he like 220 or something and didnt it seem like his quicks and ups suffered abit (Like he couldnt have pulled off that Dwight Howard dunk at this stage) but he was a beast in the paint and couldnt be stopped on route to the rim.

_KB24_
01-29-2010, 06:50 PM
Yo KO8E24...explain what a waste of typing, thats wat the hell im talkin bout with half all yall non playing just watching games and listening to what others say, but you HIGHLIGHT my GREAT analysis and its well documented if you followed and watched the old man MJ game and thangs like that, man i understand the media and all that so at least put why its a waste of typing and explain why he DIDNT steal MJ entire blueprint/game or why he reminds you of the FIRST of his kiind, the only time he one upped on MJ was his number change to 24 ..and thats where it ends

Are you like 5? Ever heard of spacing and proper typing? :facepalm: