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View Full Version : why do people make it seem like chris bosh isnt that good???



johnwayne
01-28-2010, 05:35 PM
im a bulls fan but since i've been on this site i've seen post after post talking about how bosh doesnt deserve to be an all-star, bosh isnt somebody u build a team around, bosh will never be mvp.....all this bosh bashing but its my "PERSONAL OPINION" that he's the best PF in the game and ALL of his numbers back it up not to mention he's tied with the big d howard in most double doubles this season....also i dont think its right to say that he doesnt help his team win games because very few teams in history banked on 1 good big man to win them a ring, nobody else on the raptors is anything special so back to the original question...why do so many people hate on bosh??? and i put this in the nba forum vs the raptors forum because i want to hear all fans opinions, not just raptors fans.

Tony_Starks
01-28-2010, 05:41 PM
I think most of the Bosh "hate" stems from him playing in Torronto. If he was putting up those kind of numbers in say NY, LA, or Miami, people would be singing his praises.

What people fail to realize is without Bosh they would be one of the worst teams in the league. For example: lets say Bosh and David Lee switch teams. I guarantee the Knicks would be about 10 wins better and Torronto would be about 10 wins worse.

The guy is one of the few legit "big men" left in the game.

CBCable
01-28-2010, 05:48 PM
im a bulls fan but since i've been on this site i've seen post after post talking about how bosh doesnt deserve to be an all-star, bosh isnt somebody u build a team around, bosh will never be mvp.....all this bosh bashing but its my "PERSONAL OPINION" that he's the best PF in the game and ALL of his numbers back it up not to mention he's tied with the big d howard in most double doubles this season....also i dont think its right to say that he doesnt help his team win games because very few teams in history banked on 1 good big man to win them a ring, nobody else on the raptors is anything special so back to the original question...why do so many people hate on bosh??? and i put this in the nba forum vs the raptors forum because i want to hear all fans opinions, not just raptors fans.

no.

ChiSox219
01-28-2010, 05:48 PM
Toronto almost never plays on National TV so Americans don't see him very often. That's why most fans will say Bosh is overrated and only shoots jump shots even though he is regularly among the league leaders in FTA. He's having a great year and you could certainly make the case for him being the best PF in the league.

mikantsass
01-28-2010, 05:51 PM
I like Bosh as a player. He is a good rebounder and scorer. He lacks toughness and defense. I think that is why people hate on him. Plus none of his teams have really ever been that good.

In my opinion, i do not think he is a #1 option. I mean it is pretty evident. He has been his team's #1 option this whole time and they are an average team. Put him with another all star or two and you've got something....

ChiSox219
01-28-2010, 05:56 PM
I like Bosh as a player. He is a good rebounder and scorer. He lacks toughness and defense. I think that is why people hate on him. Plus none of his teams have really ever been that good.

In my opinion, i do not think he is a #1 option. I mean it is pretty evident. He has been his team's #1 option this whole time and they are an average team. Put him with another all star or two and you've got something....

They also rip on his defense, although from everything I've seen this year, he is a good defender when matched against PFs.

I think he's a number 1 option but he's got very little help on both ends of the floor. He would fit so perfectly with the Bulls but I can only hope

ManRam
01-28-2010, 05:56 PM
He gets grief because A) he plays little to no defense B) he hasn't ever won anything, at all C) he plays in a small market D) he hasn't won anything, ever, at all E) he isn't flashy F) he's perceived as soft and not a leader

He is arguably the most consistent offensive player in the league besides maybe LeBron. But his all around game is far from where it needs to be to be a top 5-10 player.

3neSoulja
01-28-2010, 05:59 PM
I've said this from the beginning. Who's the best defencive pf in the game? 90% of u will say KG. Who's the best balanced PF in the game... Simple Tim Duncan. who's the best offencive PF it's a toss up between Chris bosh and Zack Randolph. U can even throw Amare in that mix but he doesn't stretch pass 18 feet. KG and Duncan are on Decline and Zack Randolph doesn't really help his team win cause he can't play a lick of defence. bosh is showing this year why he's the best pF in the league he's a back to back 20 and 10 guy who puts his team on his back when he needs d
too. He doesn't have guys around him like Tony Parker and manu or had someone like a David Robinson. He doesn't have guys like Ray Allen, P- squared,or rajon rondo but what he's doing is playing like the best PF if he had a strong cast like those mentioned I'd consider him the best

LanceUpperCut
01-28-2010, 06:01 PM
He gets grief because A) he plays little to no defense B) he hasn't ever won anything, at all C) he plays in a small market D) he hasn't won anything, ever, at all E) he isn't flashy F) he's perceived as soft and not a leader

He is arguably the most consistent offensive player in the league besides maybe LeBron. But his all around game is far from where it needs to be to be a top 5-10 player.

Your the perfect examaple of what this thread is all about.

3neSoulja
01-28-2010, 06:02 PM
I meant u'd consider him the best

igPay atinLay
01-28-2010, 06:03 PM
I think people are not saying he's not a great player, when you think about the upcoming free agents he isn't nearly as good as a few of those guys.

If you get someone thinking about just Bosh as a player then yeah he's great...not in the same league as Duncan at forward though. With him being a free agent with Lebron and Wade 2 of the greatest players in the history of the game and Bosh being an all star but not HOF level player its easy to see why.

yungballah15
01-28-2010, 06:03 PM
Just one, thing i gotta say, listen what kg, tim duncan, chris webber, and the big mans who have to guard him say about bosh done.

$ NyC $
01-28-2010, 06:04 PM
I like Bosh as a player. He is a good rebounder and scorer. He lacks toughness and defense. I think that is why people hate on him. Plus none of his teams have really ever been that good.

In my opinion, i do not think he is a #1 option. I mean it is pretty evident. He has been his team's #1 option this whole time and they are an average team. Put him with another all star or two and you've got something....

This. Think of Bosh like Pau Gasol. A great, all-star player alone, pair him with another superstar and he'll take it to another level. He needs to toughen up especially on D and he'll be great but he just hasn't been able to be that player that will get his or contribute in any way.

ManRam
01-28-2010, 06:04 PM
Your the perfect examaple of what this thread is all about.

Besides me saying he plays little to no defense (and I'll stand by that), the other two are FACTS. I didn't say he's soft, I said he's perceived as being soft. If you don't think Toronto is a small market in terms of NBA markets, you are lying to yourself. They have a great fan base, but, sadly, here in the US, they don't get any attention.

But thanks for that insightful and thought provoking response. If you want to be intelligent about it, I'll play along. If not, adios.

johnwayne
01-28-2010, 06:05 PM
He gets grief because A) he plays little to no defense B) he hasn't ever won anything, at all C) he plays in a small market D) he hasn't won anything, ever, at all E) he isn't flashy F) he's perceived as soft and not a leader

He is arguably the most consistent offensive player in the league besides maybe LeBron. But his all around game is far from where it needs to be to be a top 5-10 player.

A) so you watch every raptors game? he never plays defense?...B) CP3,deron,durant,nash,melo have also never anything and d-howard and lbj both got their ***** kicked the 1 time they make it to the finals, point void......C)does being the best PF in the game depend on "where" you play?.....D) already covered that.......E)you're right he should be more flashy like tim duncan....F)"perceived" is an irrelevant word when dealing with fact vs opinion

johnwayne
01-28-2010, 06:06 PM
no.

whos better?

Halladay
01-28-2010, 06:06 PM
im a bulls fan but since i've been on this site i've seen post after post talking about how bosh doesnt deserve to be an all-star, bosh isnt somebody u build a team around, bosh will never be mvp.....all this bosh bashing but its my "PERSONAL OPINION" that he's the best PF in the game and ALL of his numbers back it up not to mention he's tied with the big d howard in most double doubles this season....also i dont think its right to say that he doesnt help his team win games because very few teams in history banked on 1 good big man to win them a ring, nobody else on the raptors is anything special so back to the original question...why do so many people hate on bosh??? and i put this in the nba forum vs the raptors forum because i want to hear all fans opinions, not just raptors fans.

Is that a joke? The Raptors have quite a bit of talent, most experts will agree with that and they do. Talent has never been an issue, defense has. Bosh is a great player but I'd hesitate to put him in the elite category with Wade, Kobe, LeBron or Howard. To answer your question, people "hate" on Bosh because he plays in Canada and they rarely see him play. It's just ignorance.

johnwayne
01-28-2010, 06:11 PM
Is that a joke? The Raptors have quite a bit of talent, most experts will agree with that and they do. Talent has never been an issue, defense has. Bosh is a great player but I'd hesitate to put him in the elite category with Wade, Kobe, LeBron or Howard. To answer your question, people "hate" on Bosh because he plays in Canada and they rarely see him play. It's just ignorance.

ummmm you asked me if i was joking when i said the raptors didnt have anything "special" besides bosh.....yet you fail to name 1 player??? other than that, good post

WeaponXXX
01-28-2010, 06:12 PM
i'd say he plays about average D. I don't know about small market. he can't be a number option. If you are a big and you aint dirk, you shouldn't be jump shooting at all.

I would put him in the space of stat stuffers:
Elton Brand(Clipper days)
Zach R

SensandRaps
01-28-2010, 06:13 PM
since when is Toronto a small market I think most of his hate comes from the fact that he plays in Canada

ManRam
01-28-2010, 06:14 PM
A) so you watch every raptors game? he never plays defense?...B) CP3,deron,durant,nash,melo have also never anything and d-howard and lbj both got their ***** kicked the 1 time they make it to the finals, point void......C)does being the best PF in the game depend on "where" you play?.....D) already covered that.......E)you're right he should be more flashy like tim duncan....F)"perceived" is an irrelevant word when dealing with fact vs opinion

The fact that I'm responding to this dribble blows my mind.

A) No. I never said I did. What does that have to do with anything. I've seen probably 5-7 Raps games. His defense has improved, but it still isn't super star level. He has 1.2 defensive win shares. Bad defensive big men, like Lee, Dirk, etc. have more defensive win shares. Unless you are Amare or Randolph, you probably play better defense.

B) CP3, Deron, Nash, Melo have won playoff series. Bosh hasn't. He truly hasn't won anything. Any other player in super star contention has carried their team further than Bosh has.

C) Did I say it did? Read YOUR OWN question. I am telling you why he doesn't get as much love as you clearly want him to have. Playing in Tornoto is part of the reason. It doesn't make him worse...I'm not a slow person. You said you wanted my opinion, I gave it to you. Relax.

D) I thought it was worth emphasizing.

E) Comparing Bosh to Duncan really makes me want to block you. Are you ****ing serious???

F) Again. Aren't we discussing why people don't think he's the best? You said in your first post you wanted opinions. So why are you getting mad when you are getting then. "Perceived" goes hand in hand with opinion.


Have a nice day.

ManRam
01-28-2010, 06:15 PM
whos better?

Dirk. Gasol and Duncan.

twoearl
01-28-2010, 06:20 PM
This. Think of Bosh like Pau Gasol. A great, all-star player alone, pair him with another superstar and he'll take it to another level. He needs to toughen up especially on D and he'll be great but he just hasn't been able to be that player that will get his or contribute in any way.

Great point.

tkshy
01-28-2010, 06:20 PM
It is pretty sad. That the NBA tries to make this an international game, yet ignore there only non-american team. 1st Toronto is just like a US city. Go there, and you will see. Bosh is one of the best PF in the leauge, top 3 for sure. He just isn't Wade, LeBron, or Kobe and that is who he is compared to. Let's take our heads out of our a$$e$ and figure Toronto is fine city. Players, and fans need to be less ignorant. LA, NY, MIA, CHI are the big NBA markets, but do some research. Would you rather be in Toronto, or Indiana, OKC, Utah, Sacramento, NJ, among others.

jsumadchat
01-28-2010, 06:21 PM
"special" players and talent are 2 completely different things. bosh has always had talent around him, but he has never had the pieces to put him and the team over the top. when KG was in his prime and the number one on the wolves, he couldnt get past the first round for how many years? BIG MEN ARE NOT GAME-CHANGING NUMBER 1s. they can be the number one option on the team, but not the guy who has the ball at the top of the key with 10 seconds on the clock. special guys are guys like lamar odom, mo williams, hedo turkoglu (last 2 years), rashard lewis, ray allen, manu ginobili. these guys ease the pressure and make it easier for number 1s. bosh has NEVER had ANYTHING like that, so hes almost in a position to fail, and is why he hasnt met much success yet. this year he has some players like that - bargnani (who is developing into a BEASTLY offensive C), and turkoglu (who has been nothing short of a disappointment this year so far). basically, im saying that regardless of his win/loss record, accomplishments and recognition, CB4 really IS the best pf in the game. his defense is MUCH improved from past years and he is almost unguardable at his position. and although TO is just picking it up within the last month, HE is CARRYING this team.

PJAF
01-28-2010, 06:22 PM
I like Bosh. He is an all-star,but not a superstar.

tkshy
01-28-2010, 06:23 PM
The fact that I'm responding to this dribble blows my mind.

It's drivel. FYI.

GodsSon
01-28-2010, 06:26 PM
since when is Toronto a small market I think most of his hate comes from the fact that he plays in Canada

Bingo

LanceUpperCut
01-28-2010, 06:29 PM
Besides me saying he plays little to no defense (and I'll stand by that), the other two are FACTS. I didn't say he's soft, I said he's perceived as being soft. If you don't think Toronto is a small market in terms of NBA markets, you are lying to yourself. They have a great fan base, but, sadly, here in the US, they don't get any attention.

But thanks for that insightful and thought provoking response. If you want to be intelligent about it, I'll play along. If not, adios.

If by small market you mean it's not NY, LA or CHI then ya I guess we are. I believe there is a group of medium size markets and thats where were at. That last paragraph is just lame, cause I don't take the time to blog all the as you say insightful provoking evidence you want you get all upset:clap:

clutchski
01-28-2010, 06:40 PM
He gets grief because A) he plays little to no defense B) he hasn't ever won anything, at all C) he plays in a small market D) he hasn't won anything, ever, at all E) he isn't flashy F) he's perceived as soft and not a leader

He is arguably the most consistent offensive player in the league besides maybe LeBron. But his all around game is far from where it needs to be to be a top 5-10 player.

You need a big reality check if you believe all these things and that they even deserve getting grief

alencp3
01-28-2010, 06:44 PM
Bosh is the best PF at this moment.

RaptorsFanatic
01-28-2010, 06:46 PM
Toronto is not a small market, we are the fifth largest city in North America. Maybe it has to do with "Canada" more so, and the fact that hockey is our most popular sport.

Going back to Bosh, he is top 10 if not top 8 in the league, quite frankly. I am not being biased, I base this from what I see: on the court, on the stat sheet, and as an overall player. I have seen Bosh grow, and he can really step it up a notch very soon...so be ready.

deuces
01-28-2010, 06:48 PM
for people saying that he hasn't won anything, it is true, but what do you expect our previous management were a bunch of idiots, they did not know how to build a team
8th pick= arujo or however you spell his name ENOUGH SAID

also the past is the past, lets look at now, sure they were terrible at the beginning of the season, but they have picked it up and are doing really well

ManRam
01-28-2010, 06:48 PM
If by small market you mean it's not NY, LA or CHI then ya I guess we are. I believe there is a group of medium size markets and thats where were at. That last paragraph is just lame, cause I don't take the time to blog all the as you say insightful provoking evidence you want you get all upset:clap:

OKC, Denver, Cleveland, Detroit, Miami, Philly, Utah, Portland, Phoenix, LAC, Dallas, SA, New Orleans and probably most every other team would get more attention if they had Toronto's roster than if Toronto does currently. I love Toronto, one of my 3-4 favorite cities in the world. The US NBA fans just don't care about them for the large part.

I'm not upset at all. I don't hate or love Bosh. I'm indifferent. I hate idiots who read what I said and responded with absolutely laughable responses. If you are going to back up your claims, come with some real substance.

How about instead of saying I need a reality check, tell me why and how I'm wrong. I'd love to know why. That's what bothers me most. There's no substance in half the people's posts here.

Halladay
01-28-2010, 06:52 PM
ummmm you asked me if i was joking when i said the raptors didnt have anything "special" besides bosh.....yet you fail to name 1 player??? other than that, good post

We're talking about good players right? Okay. Derozan, Turkoglu, Calderon, Jack, and Bargnani I would all consider to be pretty good players. I appreciate the ignorant sarcasm though. The team has talent, if you can't see that then you're blind.

ChiSox219
01-28-2010, 06:56 PM
We're talking about good players right? Okay. Derozan, Turkoglu, Calderon, Jack, and Bargnani I would all consider to be pretty good players. I appreciate the ignorant sarcasm though. The team has talent, if you can't see that then you're blind.

A lot those guys wouldn't start on other teams. None of them start for Boston. Only Calderon or Jack start for LA. Not sure any of them start for Memphis or ATL.

dtmagnet
01-28-2010, 07:08 PM
I don't really care what other fans/people think. All I know is he plays for my favorite team, and I think he is a damn fine player and I enjoy watching him on the court.

AntwanN21
01-28-2010, 07:11 PM
A lot those guys wouldn't start on other teams. None of them start for Boston. Only Calderon or Jack start for LA. Not sure any of them start for Memphis or ATL.

Jack and Calderon can both start on many teams in the leauge. Golden state,indiana, LA etc. And to say Bargs wouldt start on any teams is joke. He can eaisily start over Varejao in Cleveland and probobly even at center for the celtics. To say the raps have not talent just shows that some people really dont know baskeball or don't care enough to appreciated all the teams in the league

SteveNash
01-28-2010, 07:14 PM
He keeps getting mentioned with LeBron and Wade (and Carmelo).

jbader09
01-28-2010, 07:16 PM
I've said this from the beginning. Who's the best defencive pf in the game? 90% of u will say KG. Who's the best balanced PF in the game... Simple Tim Duncan. who's the best offencive PF it's a toss up between Chris bosh and Zack Randolph. U can even throw Amare in that mix but he doesn't stretch pass 18 feet. KG and Duncan are on Decline and Zack Randolph doesn't really help his team win cause he can't play a lick of defence. bosh is showing this year why he's the best pF in the league he's a back to back 20 and 10 guy who puts his team on his back when he needs d
too. He doesn't have guys around him like Tony Parker and manu or had someone like a David Robinson. He doesn't have guys like Ray Allen, P- squared,or rajon rondo but what he's doing is playing like the best PF if he had a strong cast like those mentioned I'd consider him the best

Did u forget about a guy named Dirk Nowitzki. Bosh is a great player but i would say third best PF in the league behind dirk and duncan. and manram is right he just say those r reasons y he doesnt get recognition he didnt say he agrees with them.

AntwanN21
01-28-2010, 07:18 PM
Bosh is top 3 for sure this year in terms of pf's

He is better than Amare, Randolph(arguably) and Gasol this year.

The only other 2 i would debate would be Duncan and Dirk

ChiSox219
01-28-2010, 07:20 PM
Jack and Calderon can both start on many teams in the leauge. Golden state,indiana, LA etc. And to say Bargs wouldt start on any teams is joke. He can eaisily start over Varejao in Cleveland and probobly even at center for the celtics. To say the raps have not talent just shows that some people really dont know baskeball or don't care enough to appreciated all the teams in the league

I'm well aware that some of those guys would start on other teams. Golden State and Indiana aren't good teams. Bargnani wouldn't start over Varejao even if Varejao started for Cleveland but I do think he'd be a nice fit playing with Lebron on offense since he makes space in the lane because he's a strong outside shooter and basically shoots 80% of his shot outside the paint.

Definitely would not start over Perkins who is vastly superior defensively and has developed some offensive game this year and leads the lead in FG% and is 2nd in TS%.

My point is, Bosh doesn't have a good number 2 option to help.

LanceUpperCut
01-28-2010, 07:20 PM
OKC, Denver, Cleveland, Detroit, Miami, Philly, Utah, Portland, Phoenix, LAC, Dallas, SA, New Orleans and probably most every other team would get more attention if they had Toronto's roster than if Toronto does currently. I love Toronto, one of my 3-4 favorite cities in the world. The US NBA fans just don't care about them for the large part.

I'm not upset at all. I don't hate or love Bosh. I'm indifferent. I hate idiots who read what I said and responded with absolutely laughable responses. If you are going to back up your claims, come with some real substance.

How about instead of saying I need a reality check, tell me why and how I'm wrong. I'd love to know why. That's what bothers me most. There's no substance in half the people's posts here.

Theres no substance in your statement either. Weres your proof that all these cities are a bigger market than T.O. as far as population, attendance and overall value of the team they are'nt. Hey wether Hedos doing that great this season or not he was probley the most coveted free agent in the off-season and he wanted to come here.

AntwanN21
01-28-2010, 07:23 PM
My point is, Bosh doesn't have a good number 2 option to help.

how can you agrue that Calderon,Turk,Jack or Bargs are not good second option?

Young2Kinsler
01-28-2010, 07:26 PM
I've said this from the beginning. Who's the best defencive pf in the game? 90% of u will say KG. Who's the best balanced PF in the game... Simple Tim Duncan.
who's the best offencive PF it's a toss up between Chris bosh and Zack Randolph. U can even throw Amare in that mix but he doesn't stretch pass 18 feet. KG and Duncan are on Decline and Zack Randolph doesn't really help his team win cause he can't play a lick of defence. bosh is showing this year why he's the best pF in the league he's a back to back 20 and 10 guy who puts his team on his back when he needs d
too. He doesn't have guys around him like Tony Parker and manu or had someone like a David Robinson. He doesn't have guys like Ray Allen, P- squared,or rajon rondo but what he's doing is playing like the best PF if he had a strong cast like those mentioned I'd consider him the best


It's Dirk and it's not even close.

I'll let people debate as Dirk as the best all around PF b/c he isn't great on defense, but Dirk is the best offensive PF, and one of the toughest matchups in the NBA.

ChiSox219
01-28-2010, 07:29 PM
how can you agrue that Calderon,Turk,Jack or Bargs are not good second option?

Celtics: Pierce, Allen, Perkins are all better, with KG as #1
Hawks: JSmith, Horford, Crawford all better with JJ as #1
Lakers: Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest (close with Bargs) all better with Kobe as #1
Nuggets: Nene, Billips better with Carmelo as #1 (JR Smith is down this year but would've also been better)

I'm also factoring in defense so maybe that's why you think Calderon, Turk and Bargs are better #2's than they actually are.

LanceUpperCut
01-28-2010, 07:32 PM
Celtics: Pierce, Allen, Perkins are all better, with KG as #1
Hawks: JSmith, Horford, Crawford all better with JJ as #1
Lakers: Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Artest (close with Bargs) all better with Kobe as #1
Nuggets: Nene, Billips better with Carmelo as #1 (JR Smith is down this year but would've also been better)

I'm also factoring in defense so maybe that's why you think Calderon, Turk and Bargs are better #2's than they actually are.

Well Bosh for MVP then cause we keep winning with nothing but an Overated Bosh:facepalm:

ChiSox219
01-28-2010, 07:37 PM
Well Bosh for MVP then cause we keep winning with nothing but an Overated Bosh:facepalm:

Bosh isn't overrated, he's underrated. He deserves some consideration for MVP but Wade is playing better on a team with maybe less talent and a similar record. MVP is going to Lebron so it doesn't really matter.

AntwanN21
01-28-2010, 07:38 PM
well only raptors fan really know how good bosh is. If he leaves after the end of the season the rest of the world will know. For now we have one of the best PF's in the game and are finally winning. Come playoffs we will be a scary team to face and have shown we can beat any team in the league on any given night. to all haters of bosh, see in the playoffs

derekglasser
01-28-2010, 07:40 PM
most people would agree chris bosh is very good but the problem is the BEST players don't continually miss the playoffs every year the way bosh has escpecially in a weak eastern conference. he has talent around him turk is a good player even if hes not the same as last year and hes at least got shooters around him that should make it easier for him to kick it out. he just doesnt seem to have that killer instinct the great ones all have.

arkanian215
01-28-2010, 07:51 PM
I like Bosh as a player. He is a good rebounder and scorer. He lacks toughness and defense. I think that is why people hate on him. Plus none of his teams have really ever been that good.

In my opinion, i do not think he is a #1 option. I mean it is pretty evident. He has been his team's #1 option this whole time and they are an average team. Put him with another all star or two and you've got something....

haha especially if you knee him in the sack when you're trying to dunk on him. he's a real softie.

lakerboy
01-28-2010, 07:57 PM
most people would agree chris bosh is very good but the problem is the BEST players don't continually miss the playoffs every year the way bosh has escpecially in a weak eastern conference. he has talent around him turk is a good player even if hes not the same as last year and hes at least got shooters around him that should make it easier for him to kick it out. he just doesnt seem to have that killer instinct the great ones all have.

You speak the truth.

Bosh had a good team last year and Raptors sucked balls. This year, he has a better team and I don't think they are very good. They'll have a short run in the playoffs, but that's it.

papoose123
01-28-2010, 08:16 PM
You speak the truth.

Bosh had a good team last year and Raptors sucked balls. This year, he has a better team and I don't think they are very good. They'll have a short run in the playoffs, but that's it.

we beat you. but you lakers fans would never give us any credit......just blame the refs....

SA5195
01-28-2010, 08:36 PM
Bosh isn't overrated, he's underrated. He deserves some consideration for MVP but Wade is playing better on a team with maybe less talent and a similar record. MVP is going to Lebron so it doesn't really matter.


Ya probably, don't see anyone else from the East getting MVP but Lebron.

LanceUpperCut
01-28-2010, 08:38 PM
You speak the truth.

Bosh had a good team last year and Raptors sucked balls. This year, he has a better team and I don't think they are very good. They'll have a short run in the playoffs, but that's it.

Dude are you serious. You guys gotta make up your mind first it's Bosh has all that talent and can't go anywere then it's they have no one other than Bosh. People try to say that it's not because were from Canada that they hate us but yet try every angle they can think of to make a sound horrible.

ldc62
01-28-2010, 08:41 PM
Dirk. Gasol and Duncan.

Wow Gasol is being totally overrated... where was all this love when he was a Grizz. Hes basically playing the same AND im a Lakers fan.

ManRam
01-28-2010, 08:46 PM
Wow Gasol is being totally overrated... where was all this love when he was a Grizz. Hes basically playing the same AND im a Lakers fan.

He had love when he was with the Grizz. He put up 21 points, 10 boards, 5 assists, 2 blocks and 50%+ shooting there. Pau also is an elite defender. He was better in Memphis for a few years than Bosh was in Toronto up until this year. He was an all-star in 2006 as well.

He's the best PF in the league in my eyes...besides Dirk.

posterized
01-28-2010, 09:14 PM
He gets grief because A) he plays little to no defense B) he hasn't ever won anything, at all C) he plays in a small market D) he hasn't won anything, ever, at all E) he isn't flashy F) he's perceived as soft and not a leader

He is arguably the most consistent offensive player in the league besides maybe LeBron. But his all around game is far from where it needs to be to be a top 5-10 player.

You do bring up some good points.
But if it wasnt for bosh (and a weak division) the raps wouldnt have won the Atlantic division title. Yeah i know its not a ring, but if it wasnt for him that banner wouldnt be in the rafters of the ACC.

_KB24_
01-28-2010, 09:16 PM
Because he plays in Toronto. :shrug:

blah-blah
01-28-2010, 09:29 PM
he is he is a superstar i dont no wats the matter with people

aman_13
01-28-2010, 09:54 PM
Bosh is a great player, and i'm just happy he plays for us. I really don't care what other people think about Bosh, his recognition will come when the team consistently wins. It's not about where he plays, but what he's accomplished.

JordansBulls
01-28-2010, 10:07 PM
A lot has to do with the fact that it is his 7th year in the year and still no Post season success.

Draco
01-28-2010, 10:20 PM
A lot has to do with the fact that it is his 7th year in the year and still no Post season success.

Agreed.. that's part of it. And what of all the Raptor fans who have ripped on Bosh. One thing I'm confident about.. Criticism of Bosh has nothing to do with him playing in Canada.

knicks4life33
01-28-2010, 10:26 PM
he hasnt won anything and hasnt gone past the first round and his team record is always a little over 500. not sold on bosh and wouldnt over spend on him. i dont think he has that kevin garnett / tim duncan mentality in him .

Bausman
01-28-2010, 10:45 PM
I am a Raptors fan. I used to say that he is not a number 1 option and he is a bad defender.

Who is the best player he has ever played along side? An old/fragile Jermaine Oneal? A Steve Nash-less Shawn Marion? Hedo Turkulo?

OK... Now think about this...

Its the 4th quarter and the Raptors are tied and he has 5 fouls. Chris Paul drives past Jose 'pylon' Calderon. If Chris Bosh rotates over and tries to block the shot but gets called for the foul he is out of the game with 5 minutes to play. Do the Raptors have a chance to win that game with 5 minutes to go? Hell no.

In order for the Raps to have a chance to win he MUST be in the game, so he has to play smart and less aggressive defensively.

I am not saying he is an elite or even a good shot blocker. But, I do believe that if the pistons had drafted him instead of Darko, no one would talk about him being a bad defender because he is a smart defender and has no help and he understands that he HAS to remain in the game for his team to be competitive.

In order to understand this you must realize that stats dont mean everything. For proof check out the block/steal stats of arguably the best defender of all time, Dennis Rodman. I have not checked but im pretty sure he has never averaged more than 1.5 blocks or steals in a season (maybe not more than 1).

ChiSox219
01-28-2010, 10:51 PM
I am a Raptors fan. I used to say that he is not a number 1 option and he is a bad defender.

Who is the best player he has ever played along side? An old/fragile Jermaine Oneal? A Steve Nash-less Shawn Marion? Hedo Turkulo?

OK... Now think about this...

Its the 4th quarter and the Raptors are tied and he has 5 fouls. Chris Paul drives past Jose 'pylon' Calderon. If Chris Bosh rotates over and tries to block the shot but gets called for the foul he is out of the game with 5 minutes to play. Do the Raptors have a chance to win that game with 5 minutes to go? Hell no.

In order for the Raps to have a chance to win he MUST be in the game, so he has to play smart and less aggressive defensively.

I am not saying he is an elite or even a good shot blocker. But, I do believe that if the pistons had drafted him instead of Darko, no one would talk about him being a bad defender because he is a smart defender and has no help and he understands that he HAS to remain in the game for his team to be competitive.

In order to understand this you must realize that stats dont mean everything. For proof check out the block/steal stats of arguably the best defender of all time, Dennis Rodman. I have not checked but im pretty sure he has never averaged more than 1.5 blocks or steals in a season (maybe not more than 1).

:clap: Great post

Bausman
01-28-2010, 10:53 PM
By the way... If number one option means winning a championship by himself then no he is not a number one option. Much like Kevin Garnett or Shaq(im no dummy, these guys are better). In todays (soft ***) NBA, no big man can do it by him self.

NJBASEBALL22
01-28-2010, 10:57 PM
The fact is that he is a beast on offense. I don't watch much of the Raptor or care enough to check the stat books to see how many shots he takes or the types of shots he takes but he is a great scorer nonetheless. Another fact is that regardless of how he is perceived on D, he has the tools to be an elite defender- which he isn't so he is an under-achiever. You have to give him a big of credit though if he is guarding centers though because he isn't as strong or big as most centers.
I think a lot also has to do with the mentality of the OP. It is not "hate" towards Bosh, it is more of just thinking he isn't the top PF. It can be argued that he is the top PF (with Dirk, Duncan, Gasol) but some ppl just don't like to her others say he is not.
He has offensive players around him (Calderon, Bargs, and Heido) but no one on the team plays defense. Defense is really what wins games.

PS. I hate Canada because my Ex-girlfriend took a tip there our freshmen year of college with a few of her friends and ended up banging three different Canadian dudes. That is the only reason I hate Canada though.

NJBASEBALL22
01-28-2010, 10:59 PM
I am a Raptors fan. I used to say that he is not a number 1 option and he is a bad defender.

Who is the best player he has ever played along side? An old/fragile Jermaine Oneal? A Steve Nash-less Shawn Marion? Hedo Turkulo?

OK... Now think about this...

Its the 4th quarter and the Raptors are tied and he has 5 fouls. Chris Paul drives past Jose 'pylon' Calderon. If Chris Bosh rotates over and tries to block the shot but gets called for the foul he is out of the game with 5 minutes to play. Do the Raptors have a chance to win that game with 5 minutes to go? Hell no.

In order for the Raps to have a chance to win he MUST be in the game, so he has to play smart and less aggressive defensively.

I am not saying he is an elite or even a good shot blocker. But, I do believe that if the pistons had drafted him instead of Darko, no one would talk about him being a bad defender because he is a smart defender and has no help and he understands that he HAS to remain in the game for his team to be competitive.

In order to understand this you must realize that stats dont mean everything. For proof check out the block/steal stats of arguably the best defender of all time, Dennis Rodman. I have not checked but im pretty sure he has never averaged more than 1.5 blocks or steals in a season (maybe not more than 1).

You are correct about Rodman, but Bosh isn't in the same class as him. Rodman made it his mission to shut down his man- and it could be anyone from the 2 to the 5.

sunnydayin'zona
01-28-2010, 11:05 PM
shaq said he's soft...? i'd trust shaq i guess.
well, if you put bosh on the suns and amare on the raps there would be no difference,
pau for bosh no difference,
timmy d for bosh and the spurs get worse raps get better,
bosh on the c's..i dont know about this one

sunnydayin'zona
01-28-2010, 11:08 PM
i also think he'd be far less known and far less over rated if he wasnt in the 2010 free agency class. he's created so much media crap with that he is a common name now.

jsumadchat
01-28-2010, 11:14 PM
bosh carries the raptors.

ManRam
01-28-2010, 11:16 PM
I may have come off as a big Bosh hater in this thread. I really don't dislike him, I'm just point out why he is easy to speak ill of, and explaining why people do.

He's moved into my top 10 MVP candidates now. He never has bad games. ever.

dtmagnet
01-28-2010, 11:37 PM
A lot has to do with the fact that it is his 7th year in the year and still no Post season success.

This definitely is a big part of it, he needs to get that monkey off his back. This could very well be the year that it happens, it's a wait and see situation for now.

BALLER R
01-28-2010, 11:46 PM
lol i why am i seeing so many post of raptors don't play defense...then can someone explain to me how we won these past four games
MIL: 15 point defecit, we Won
LA: 10 point defecit, we Won
MIA: 13 point defecit, we Won
NY: 16 point defecit, we Won.

i watched all these games and im sure defense had something to do with it

ChiSox219
01-28-2010, 11:53 PM
lol i why am i seeing so many post of raptors don't play defense...then can someone explain to me how we won these past four games
MIL: 15 point defecit, we Won
LA: 10 point defecit, we Won
MIA: 13 point defecit, we Won
NY: 16 point defecit, we Won.

i watched all these games and im sure defense had something to do with it

They are ranked 30th in defensive rating

Do agree they've been getting better, mostly because Calderon went down and now his minutes have been cut back a bit.

LanceUpperCut
01-28-2010, 11:58 PM
They are ranked 30th in defensive rating

Do agree they've been getting better, mostly because Calderon went down and now his minutes have been cut back a bit.

It's got nothing to do with Jose it's pretty simple we had 9 new players who had a new coach and it took some time to gel including the fact we had a real tough sch. Not saying were great on D but the fact were rolling now is'nt just cause of are offence. Our O is good but not that good.

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 12:09 AM
It's got nothing to do with Jose it's pretty simple we had 9 new players who had a new coach and it took some time to gel including the fact we had a real tough sch. Not saying were great on D but the fact were rolling now is'nt just cause of are offence. Our O is good but not that good.

It has a lot to do with Calderon. The Raptors defense is 7 points worse per 100 possesions with Calderon on the floor. Bargnani is the next closest (among guys playing 10mpg) and he only makes the Raptors 4.23 points per possession.

Jack is only -1 per 100, so with that switch you are already gaining 6 points on defense.

You went on a roll against a bunch of bad teams. Not saying the Raptors aren't a playoff team, but the Bulls are doing the same thing, getting to and above .500 when their scheduled has an easy stretch.

Bausman
01-29-2010, 03:36 AM
You are correct about Rodman, but Bosh isn't in the same class as him. Rodman made it his mission to shut down his man- and it could be anyone from the 2 to the 5.

Oh i know, Im not comparing the two of them... Rodman is just a perfect example that stats dont mean everything.

PS... I go to school in Niagara, ON. I hope she didnt come to see the falls..
we clean up on the American girls ;)

soonabooma
01-29-2010, 03:53 AM
Bosh is a great player no doubt, but he has to do way too much in Toronto. I think he would fit much better on a team with guys like Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Jeff Green, and James Harden.:up:

JC_
01-29-2010, 07:17 AM
You went on a roll against a bunch of bad teams. Not saying the Raptors aren't a playoff team, but the Bulls are doing the same thing, getting to and above .500 when their scheduled has an easy stretch.

In the month of January the Raptors have beaten San Antonio, Miami, Orlando, Dallas and the Lakers.

I should add that Calerdon's energy off the bench is one of the main reasons we've been winning some tough games.

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 09:49 AM
In the month of January the Raptors have beaten San Antonio, Miami, Orlando, Dallas and the Lakers.

I should add that Calerdon's energy off the bench is one of the main reasons we've been winning some tough games.

Like I said, the Raptors got to .500 when their schedule eased up. They went from 12-17 to 16-17 beating NJ, Detroit (twice), NO, and Charlotte and all but one of those games was at home.

Of those wins you listed, only Orlando came on the road.

And sure, Calderon's "energy" is nice to have off the bench, but reducing his minutes and replacing him with Jack has the made the Raptors much better defensively. He played 15 minutes against LA, 23 against Dallas, 23 against Miami, 24 against Orlando and he didn't play against San Antonio. Calderon was averaging 33mpg before he went down and before the Raptors went on their run.

SirCalvin81
01-29-2010, 10:20 AM
because he lives in canada

LanceUpperCut
01-29-2010, 10:52 AM
Like I said, the Raptors got to .500 when their schedule eased up. They went from 12-17 to 16-17 beating NJ, Detroit (twice), NO, and Charlotte and all but one of those games was at home.

Of those wins you listed, only Orlando came on the road.

And sure, Calderon's "energy" is nice to have off the bench, but reducing his minutes and replacing him with Jack has the made the Raptors much better defensively. He played 15 minutes against LA, 23 against Dallas, 23 against Miami, 24 against Orlando and he didn't play against San Antonio. Calderon was averaging 33mpg before he went down and before the Raptors went on their run.

I know you love your stats and that they do mean alot but sometimes you just have to watch games to see what were talking about. Since when are Charlotte and NO bad teams, you use are lighter sch. to make your point. But when it comes to early in the year when we had a very rough sch., you make it seem like it means nothing. All the non raptor fans are always so one sided when talking about us picking out all the bad and leaving out all the good.

miller74
01-29-2010, 11:02 AM
To be honest im from TO and was never a Bosh fan, but hes really matured this season and looks like hes a the max contract player hes suppose to be. Just has to bring it come playoff time, also has to keep improvin his defense

ink
01-29-2010, 11:20 AM
He gets grief because A) he plays little to no defense B) he hasn't ever won anything, at all C) he plays in a small market D) he hasn't won anything, ever, at all E) he isn't flashy F) he's perceived as soft and not a leader

He is arguably the most consistent offensive player in the league besides maybe LeBron. But his all around game is far from where it needs to be to be a top 5-10 player.

Have you watched him much this year? A is no longer totally true, B and D are the same, C is false, E is debatable, and F is just a perception. You usually make better posts than this man. You need to see him play. I'm not saying all of what you said is incorrect, but largely it's repetition of stereotypes about him. He has changed his game up pretty substantially this year. Most of it has to do with increased strength and the fact that he hasn't lost any of his speed. He is also driving now, not just trying to draw fouls to get to the line. He's playing much more aggressively than ever before and he's always been a very good finisher.

Raoul Duke
01-29-2010, 11:38 AM
I don't think Bosh and Bargs are a good pair up front. They're both great players, but theres too much overlap in styles. They'd both benefit from being paired with a physical presence in the paint. Someone like Kendrick Perkins.

ink
01-29-2010, 11:51 AM
I don't think Bosh and Bargs are a good pair up front. They're both great players, but theres too much overlap in styles. They'd both benefit from being paired with a physical presence in the paint. Someone like Kendrick Perkins.

Again, watch them now. There is not actually much overlap in their games at all. For several games in a row they were the team's leading scorers, both their rebounding totals were respectable (Bosh's have always been v. good), and their defence has been very good on some of the league's best bigs. As their team has gelled this season, they're actually showing exactly why they were paired together in the first place by management. They're turning into a very good duo. Anyway, back to Bosh.

Raph12
01-29-2010, 11:55 AM
Leadership, defense and intensity (more obvious in the past).

Tmac,lt,berkman
01-29-2010, 12:21 PM
to me he is the best power porward in the nba

Legitimate
01-29-2010, 12:35 PM
to me he is the best power porward in the nba

bosh is the best PF in the nba,u know it!=)

Raph12
01-29-2010, 12:50 PM
to me he is the best power porward in the nba

bosh is the best PF in the nba,u know it!=)

1. Tim Duncan
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Pau Gasol
3A. Kevin Garnett
5. Carlos Boozer
.
.
.
6. Bosh/Amare (I consider him a PF despite what it says on the Allstar ballot).

No way he's the best PF, like I said; leadership, defense and intensity are the qualities he needs to put his name up there with the rest of the guys in the Top PF rankings.

ADDED: Oops, I forgot to add Carlos Boozer to my Top 5 PFs list... Bosh and Amare tie for 6th

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 12:52 PM
I know you love your stats and that they do mean alot but sometimes you just have to watch games to see what were talking about. Since when are Charlotte and NO bad teams, you use are lighter sch. to make your point. But when it comes to early in the year when we had a very rough sch., you make it seem like it means nothing. All the non raptor fans are always so one sided when talking about us picking out all the bad and leaving out all the good.

I do watch the Raptors, all the time. They are a fun team to watch and I believe along with the Heat they are the Bulls competition for #5. Also, really want Bosh in Chicago so I watched a ton of games early to tell Bulls fans it's no contest with Amare.

Charlotte and NO aren't bad but they aren't great, they are teams you should beat when you are playing at home. I can relate to playing a tough schedule early, it killed the Bulls and the effects lingered even when our schedule softened.

All I'm trying to say is Bosh is carrying the Raptors, without him, they are near the bottom of the Eastern Conference.

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 12:57 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Pau Gasol
3A. Kevin Garnett
.
.
.
5. Bosh/Amare (I consider him a PF despite what it says on the Allstar ballot).

No way he's the best PF, like I said; leadership, defense and intensity are the qualities he needs to put his name up there with the rest of the guys in the Top PF rankings.

Putting Bosh on the same level as Amare is insulting.

rhymeratic
01-29-2010, 12:57 PM
Bosh has always been a weird player to rank because he's not like ELITE at any one thing that he does but the dude puts up numbers but then his team overall has average record at best. Is he a number 1 banana for a championship caliber squad, nah... He's the type of player that will need to be around another top 15 player to have a chance.

I'd say he's a top 20 player for sure, not top 5, not top 10. I almost put him in the same category as Rashard Lewis because their impacts on the game/their teams isn't AS noticeable.

I'll give you a list of names and you'll see how Bosh fits:

Iguodala
Rashard Lewis
Devin Harris
Boozer
David Lee
Jason Richardson
Monta Ellis
Gerald Wallace

LanceUpperCut
01-29-2010, 01:00 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Pau Gasol
3A. Kevin Garnett
.
.
.
5. Bosh/Amare (I consider him a PF despite what it says on the Allstar ballot).

No way he's the best PF, like I said; leadership, defense and intensity are the qualities he needs to put his name up there with the rest of the guys in the Top PF rankings.

Theres no way you can call Bosh soft with no leadership but have Gasol at no. 3. He might not have the best all around game but I'd bet most teams would like to have him right now more than anyone else because of age and potential.

LanceUpperCut
01-29-2010, 01:05 PM
Bosh has always been a weird player to rank because he's not like ELITE at any one thing that he does but the dude puts up numbers but then his team overall has average record at best. Is he a number 1 banana for a championship caliber squad, nah... He's the type of player that will need to be around another top 15 player to have a chance.

I'd say he's a top 20 player for sure, not top 5, not top 10. I almost put him in the same category as Rashard Lewis because their impacts on the game/their teams isn't AS noticeable.

I'll give you a list of names and you'll see how Bosh fits:

Iguodala
Rashard Lewis
Devin Harris
Boozer
David Lee
Jason Richardson
Monta Ellis
Gerald Wallace

Sorry man Bosh is light years ahead of most of these guys. If Bosh does get moved, I imagine a game or two into the season he will be top 5 according to most PSD bloggers.

Raph12
01-29-2010, 01:22 PM
Theres no way you can call Bosh soft with no leadership but have Gasol at no. 3. He might not have the best all around game but I'd bet most teams would like to have him right now more than anyone else because of age and potential.

They'd probably want him more, but Gasol's refined offense (stronger postgame than Bosh) and strong man-on-man defense, still makes him the 3rd best PF in the game right now.

Like I said, when I see the intensity, defense and leadership (or atleast 2 of the 3) from Bosh, I can throw his name up there with the other 4 guys.

ADDED: Oops, I forgot to add Carlos Boozer to my Top 5 PFs list... Bosh and Amare tie for 6th

jumpman52313
01-29-2010, 01:36 PM
honestly its a waste of time to talk to ANY raptors fans about bosh..no matter what you say to them they will always love him...its like ur own kid he mite be the a little badas$ and everyone knows it but your still gonna think hes the best kid in the world...

in my eyes i think bosh is a top pf not the best cuz thats still owned by duncan no matter what bosh does....only reason people think hes overrated is cuz we never get to see him play..im from philly n i cant tell u the last time i saw the raptors play. bosh is a hell of a player tho

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 01:45 PM
They'd probably want him more, but Gasol's refined offense (stronger postgame than Bosh) and strong man-on-man defense, still makes him the 3rd best PF in the game right now.

Like I said, when I see the intensity, defense and leadership (or atleast 2 of the 3) from Bosh, I can throw his name up there with the other 4 guys.

ADDED: Oops, I forgot to add Carlos Boozer to my Top 5 PFs list... Bosh and Amare tie for 6th

What is your justification for putting Boozer above and Amare next to Bosh?

thescore53
01-29-2010, 01:57 PM
when there's ever a thread about bosh or the raptors there always seems to be
something said
towards Canada why is that do you guys hate Canada or something

we share a continent, is that how you treat your actual neighbors next door

Raph12
01-29-2010, 02:09 PM
What is your justification for putting Boozer above and Amare next to Bosh?

Boozer is better in just about every aspect of the game; he has a good/great postgame, he's a very good rebounder and passer, he can hit the midrange jumper and also play defense on almost any 4 or 5 in the league. He is older and a bit injury prone, but when healthy, he is better than both Bosh and Amare.

Amare on the other hand, isn't a good iso player, but is a fantastic finisher, he has the repetoire and range to finish 18 feet and in. Bosh gets a slight edge due to his stronger iso game, but he is on the same level as Stat, unless he can pick up his intensity level, defense and leadership (all qualities Amare lacks as well).

Raoul Duke
01-29-2010, 02:33 PM
Bosh has never put up really good numbers on a really good team.

I know I'll get insulted for saying that, but it's true. Pretty much all of the young, comparable talents in the league are universally considered to be elite because they've made a sizeable contribution to a team that at least made it out of the first round of the playoffs.

I'd like to add to that statement that I don't think any of that is Bosh's fault.

lovingTO
01-29-2010, 02:36 PM
As a Toronto fan, it's starting to bother me how upset my fellow raptors fans get when other teams' fans diss our players. Alot of people in here have made comments about Chris Bosh that CLEARLY never watch him play. The comments are way off base, then a bunch of people lose their ****. Let other fans diss Bosh and others all they want, we are the ones that get to see him play every second day. We know what a special player he is. Who cares what some ignorant 'OTIS' from Boston or LA or anywhere says. BOSH MVP. Barganani too.

Rego247
01-29-2010, 02:46 PM
Chris Bosh is the most efficient PF in the NBA right now...period

Men lie..Women lie..Numbers don't

NUFF SAID

RaptorizedKevin
01-29-2010, 03:00 PM
for people saying that he hasn't won anything, it is true, but what do you expect our previous management were a bunch of idiots, they did not know how to build a team
8th pick= arujo or however you spell his name ENOUGH SAID

also the past is the past, lets look at now, sure they were terrible at the beginning of the season, but they have picked it up and are doing really well

that same idiot drafted chris bosh yu know?

glen grunwald.


oh wait my bad thats babock was an idiot. i dont know why we didnt make julius erving our gm >_>

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 03:08 PM
Boozer is better in just about every aspect of the game; he has a good/great postgame, he's a very good rebounder and passer, he can hit the midrange jumper and also play defense on almost any 4 or 5 in the league. He is older and a bit injury prone, but when healthy, he is better than both Bosh and Amare.

Amare on the other hand, isn't a good iso player, but is a fantastic finisher, he has the repetoire and range to finish 18 feet and in. Bosh gets a slight edge due to his stronger iso game, but he is on the same level as Stat, unless he can pick up his intensity level, defense and leadership (all qualities Amare lacks as well).

Boozer is not a good defender, he's certainly inferior to Bosh who has man up centers more often than Boozer does. Bosh's has longer range and is just as good as good as Boozer when it comes to mid-range game. Rebounding they have been dead equals this year. I'll give Boozer passing and post game, but Bosh post game is stronger than you think, he's developed quite the repertoire with a nasty power spin. What I think is most important is Bosh gets to the line at exceptional rate while Boozer and Gasol get their at an average rate, and Amare is above average but not quite franchise player level.

I'm ok with Duncan-Drik 1 and 2, but I think Bosh is #3 or no worse than #4 behind Gasol

GodsSon
01-29-2010, 03:54 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Pau Gasol
3A. Kevin Garnett
5. Carlos Boozer
.
.
.
6. Bosh/Amare (I consider him a PF despite what it says on the Allstar ballot).

No way he's the best PF, like I said; leadership, defense and intensity are the qualities he needs to put his name up there with the rest of the guys in the Top PF rankings.

ADDED: Oops, I forgot to add Carlos Boozer to my Top 5 PFs list... Bosh and Amare tie for 6th

wow...

Bob_at_york
01-29-2010, 03:55 PM
Boozer is better in just about every aspect of the game; he has a good/great postgame, he's a very good rebounder and passer, he can hit the midrange jumper and also play defense on almost any 4 or 5 in the league. He is older and a bit injury prone, but when healthy, he is better than both Bosh and Amare.
I am not sure if Boozer is better than Bosh at hitting mid-range jumpers or from a rebounding standpoint. Actually I think Bosh's post game is pretty much as good as Boozer's. You really think Boozer is better than Bosh at all that? In the end, you do bring up good points about Boozer's D and passing to be better than Bosh's but don't forget how Bosh gets to the line more than Boozer.


Amare on the other hand, isn't a good iso player, but is a fantastic finisher, he has the repetoire and range to finish 18 feet and in. Bosh gets a slight edge due to his stronger iso game, but he is on the same level as Stat, unless he can pick up his intensity level, defense and leadership (all qualities Amare lacks as well).
But from a rebounding standpoint they are completely different! Amare has never averaged double-digit rebound numbers. I think Bosh should be ranked ahead of Amare just because of the huge rebounding difference between the two of them.

Raph12
01-29-2010, 04:02 PM
Boozer is not a good defender, he's certainly inferior to Bosh who has man up centers more often than Boozer does. Bosh's has longer range and is just as good as good as Boozer when it comes to mid-range game. Rebounding they have been dead equals this year. I'll give Boozer passing and post game, but Bosh post game is stronger than you think, he's developed quite the repertoire with a nasty power spin. What I think is most important is Bosh gets to the line at exceptional rate while Boozer and Gasol get their at an average rate, and Amare is above average but not quite franchise player level.

I'm ok with Duncan-Drik 1 and 2, but I think Bosh is #3 or no worse than #4 behind Gasol

I've yet to see Bosh "man up centers" on defense, everytime Bosh has guarded an offensively potent center, they usually light him up.

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Raptors from centers this season:
1 David Lee - 27.0ppg .558fg%
2 Chris Kaman - 25.0ppg .625fg%
3 Andrew Bynum - 21.0ppg .600fg%
4 Andrew Bogut - 20.3ppg .632fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 20.0ppg .615fg%
6 Dwight Howard - 19.8ppg .512fg%
7 Marc Gasol - 19.0ppg .750fg%
8 Matt Bonner - 18.0ppg .438%
9 Channing Frye - 17.5ppg .579fg%
10 Al Horford - 17.0ppg .824fg%
11 Jermaine O'Neal - 16.3ppg .579fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 16.0ppg .760fg%
13 Brook Lopez - 14.0ppg .571fg%
13 Shaquille O'Neal - 14.0ppg .591fg%
15 Zaza Pachulia - 12.5ppg .714fg%

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Jazz from centers this season:
1 Channing Frye - 21.0ppg .533fg%
1 Chris Kaman - 21.0ppg .667fg%
3 Al Jefferson - 19.7ppg .520fg%
4 Dwight Howard - 19.5ppg .579fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 18.7ppg .676fg%
6 Brook Lopez - 18.5ppg .560fg%
7 Andrew Bynum - 13.5ppg .500fg%
8 Charles Hayes - 12.0ppg .750fg%
8 Al Horford - 12.0ppg .857fg%
8 David Lee - 12.0ppg .500fg%
11 Nick Collison - 11.0ppg .800fg%
12 Andrea Bargnani - 10.0ppg .300fg%
12 Andrew Bogut - 10.0ppg .500fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 10.0ppg .444fg%
15 Matt Bonner - 9.2ppg .500fg%

Now that we have defense out of the way, Bosh may be better at getting to the rim, but their postgames are incomparable. Plus, Bosh gets that much more touchs than Boozer does, so comparing points or FTAs and what not are inaccurate.

I stand by my statement, TimmyD and Dirk are on different levels, while Gasol, KG and Boozer are still one level ahead of Bosh. If he can kick up his intensity, defense and leadership skills, then and only then, would he crack my Top 5.

Raph12
01-29-2010, 04:08 PM
I am not sure if Boozer is better than Bosh at hitting mid-range jumpers or from a rebounding standpoint. Actually I think Bosh's post game is pretty much as good as Boozer's. You really think Boozer is better than Bosh at all that? In the end, you do bring up good points about Boozer's D and passing to be better than Bosh's but don't forget how Bosh gets to the line more than Boozer

I don't think his jumper is better than Bosh's no, but it is right there with his. I don't think the post game is comparable though, Boozer has a bevy of moves at his disposal with a great touch around the basket, Bosh seems to have that spin move and that's about it. Rebounding-wise, Boozer has better rebounding running mates in the frontcourt in Okur and Millsap, so his rebounding numbers are more impressive. Bosh gets a lot of touches and drives the ball more than Boozer does, so he's bound to get to the line more than Boozer as well.


But from a rebounding standpoint they are completely different! Amare has never averaged double-digit rebound numbers. I think Bosh should be ranked ahead of Amare just because of the huge rebounding difference between the two of them.

You're right, Bosh is a better rebounder, mostly because a lot of the wings stay back and get rebounds for the Suns, while the Raps usually try to leak out and let Bosh handle the boards, sort of like Dwight. I'll give Bosh the edge over Stat, but they are still on the same tier IMO, until one can take their game to another level.

Bob_at_york
01-29-2010, 04:12 PM
You're right, Bosh is a better rebounder, mostly because a lot of the wings stay back and get rebounds for the Suns, while the Raps usually try to leak out and let Bosh handle the boards, sort of like Dwight. I'll give Bosh the edge over Stat, but they are still on the same tier IMO, until one can take their game to another level.
They don't leak out as much as you seem to think they do. We aren't a fast break team here.

Bob_at_york
01-29-2010, 04:13 PM
I've yet to see Bosh "man up centers" on defense, everytime Bosh has guarded an offensively potent center, they usually light him up.

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Raptors from centers this season:
1 David Lee - 27.0ppg .558fg%
2 Chris Kaman - 25.0ppg .625fg%
3 Andrew Bynum - 21.0ppg .600fg%
4 Andrew Bogut - 20.3ppg .632fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 20.0ppg .615fg%
6 Dwight Howard - 19.8ppg .512fg%
7 Marc Gasol - 19.0ppg .750fg%
8 Matt Bonner - 18.0ppg .438%
9 Channing Frye - 17.5ppg .579fg%
10 Al Horford - 17.0ppg .824fg%
11 Jermaine O'Neal - 16.3ppg .579fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 16.0ppg .760fg%
13 Brook Lopez - 14.0ppg .571fg%
13 Shaquille O'Neal - 14.0ppg .591fg%
15 Zaza Pachulia - 12.5ppg .714fg%

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Jazz from centers this season:
1 Channing Frye - 21.0ppg .533fg%
1 Chris Kaman - 21.0ppg .667fg%
3 Al Jefferson - 19.7ppg .520fg%
4 Dwight Howard - 19.5ppg .579fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 18.7ppg .676fg%
6 Brook Lopez - 18.5ppg .560fg%
7 Andrew Bynum - 13.5ppg .500fg%
8 Charles Hayes - 12.0ppg .750fg%
8 Al Horford - 12.0ppg .857fg%
8 David Lee - 12.0ppg .500fg%
11 Nick Collison - 11.0ppg .800fg%
12 Andrea Bargnani - 10.0ppg .300fg%
12 Andrew Bogut - 10.0ppg .500fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 10.0ppg .444fg%
15 Matt Bonner - 9.2ppg .500fg%

Now that we have defense out of the way, Bosh may be better at getting to the rim, but their postgames are incomparable. Plus, Bosh gets that much more touchs than Boozer does, so comparing points or FTAs and what not are inaccurate.

I stand by my statement, TimmyD and Dirk are on different levels, while Gasol, KG and Boozer are still one level ahead of Bosh. If he can kick up his intensity, defense and leadership skills, then and only then, would he crack my Top 5.

Bosh usually covers the PFs not the Cs. Bargs covers the centers.

SA5195
01-29-2010, 04:17 PM
I've yet to see Bosh "man up centers" on defense, everytime Bosh has guarded an offensively potent center, they usually light him up.

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Raptors from centers this season:
1 David Lee - 27.0ppg .558fg%
2 Chris Kaman - 25.0ppg .625fg%
3 Andrew Bynum - 21.0ppg .600fg%
4 Andrew Bogut - 20.3ppg .632fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 20.0ppg .615fg%
6 Dwight Howard - 19.8ppg .512fg%
7 Marc Gasol - 19.0ppg .750fg%
8 Matt Bonner - 18.0ppg .438%
9 Channing Frye - 17.5ppg .579fg%
10 Al Horford - 17.0ppg .824fg%
11 Jermaine O'Neal - 16.3ppg .579fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 16.0ppg .760fg%
13 Brook Lopez - 14.0ppg .571fg%
13 Shaquille O'Neal - 14.0ppg .591fg%
15 Zaza Pachulia - 12.5ppg .714fg%

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Jazz from centers this season:
1 Channing Frye - 21.0ppg .533fg%
1 Chris Kaman - 21.0ppg .667fg%
3 Al Jefferson - 19.7ppg .520fg%
4 Dwight Howard - 19.5ppg .579fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 18.7ppg .676fg%
6 Brook Lopez - 18.5ppg .560fg%
7 Andrew Bynum - 13.5ppg .500fg%
8 Charles Hayes - 12.0ppg .750fg%
8 Al Horford - 12.0ppg .857fg%
8 David Lee - 12.0ppg .500fg%
11 Nick Collison - 11.0ppg .800fg%
12 Andrea Bargnani - 10.0ppg .300fg%
12 Andrew Bogut - 10.0ppg .500fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 10.0ppg .444fg%
15 Matt Bonner - 9.2ppg .500fg%

Now that we have defense out of the way, Bosh may be better at getting to the rim, but their postgames are incomparable. Plus, Bosh gets that much more touchs than Boozer does, so comparing points or FTAs and what not are inaccurate.

I stand by my statement, TimmyD and Dirk are on different levels, while Gasol, KG and Boozer are still one level ahead of Bosh. If he can kick up his intensity, defense and leadership skills, then and only then, would he crack my Top 5.

Bosh is a PF.

Raph12
01-29-2010, 04:29 PM
^^^The arguement was that Bosh "mans up centers" and that he guards the 5 better than Boozer.

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 04:29 PM
I've yet to see Bosh "man up centers" on defense, everytime Bosh has guarded an offensively potent center, they usually light him up.

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Raptors from centers this season:
1 David Lee - 27.0ppg .558fg%
2 Chris Kaman - 25.0ppg .625fg%
3 Andrew Bynum - 21.0ppg .600fg%
4 Andrew Bogut - 20.3ppg .632fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 20.0ppg .615fg%
6 Dwight Howard - 19.8ppg .512fg%
7 Marc Gasol - 19.0ppg .750fg%
8 Matt Bonner - 18.0ppg .438%
9 Channing Frye - 17.5ppg .579fg%
10 Al Horford - 17.0ppg .824fg%
11 Jermaine O'Neal - 16.3ppg .579fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 16.0ppg .760fg%
13 Brook Lopez - 14.0ppg .571fg%
13 Shaquille O'Neal - 14.0ppg .591fg%
15 Zaza Pachulia - 12.5ppg .714fg%

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Jazz from centers this season:
1 Channing Frye - 21.0ppg .533fg%
1 Chris Kaman - 21.0ppg .667fg%
3 Al Jefferson - 19.7ppg .520fg%
4 Dwight Howard - 19.5ppg .579fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 18.7ppg .676fg%
6 Brook Lopez - 18.5ppg .560fg%
7 Andrew Bynum - 13.5ppg .500fg%
8 Charles Hayes - 12.0ppg .750fg%
8 Al Horford - 12.0ppg .857fg%
8 David Lee - 12.0ppg .500fg%
11 Nick Collison - 11.0ppg .800fg%
12 Andrea Bargnani - 10.0ppg .300fg%
12 Andrew Bogut - 10.0ppg .500fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 10.0ppg .444fg%
15 Matt Bonner - 9.2ppg .500fg%

Now that we have defense out of the way

I don't understand, what does this prove? Okur and Bargnani play minutes at center and Okur is a better defender than Bargnani is. Boozer also doesn't have to leave his man because Deron/Brewer are great defenders. Bosh is constantly peeling off or stepping up to pick up guards/wings that blew past their defender. Comparing opposing centers % and PPG is at best an inaccurate method to judge these guy's defensive abilities.

Point something out: The Jazz defense is over 10 points better per 100p's when you replace Boozer with Milsap. And even though Boozer plays with far superior defensive teammates his rating is still 5 points worse than Bosh's



Bosh may be better at getting to the rim, but their postgames are incomparable. Plus, Bosh gets that much more touchs than Boozer does, so comparing points or FTAs and what not are inaccurate.

Their post games are at least comparable, Bosh has become incredibly versatile. He can up fake then drive past or raise up and draw a foul. Then he'll come back and drain a fade away, and then the next possession fake the fade and spin back around for the easy lay up. He's incredibly skilled close to the basket and he rarely gets credit for it.

Bosh getting to the line has little to do with touches and everything to do with aggressiveness, quickness, and athleticism. For a comparison:

2006-07
Bosh:
USG% - 26.7
FTA per 36 - 8.0

Boozer
USG% - 26.5
FTA per 36- 5.2

Even when they get comparable touches, Bosh gets to the line at a significantly higher rate.



I stand by my statement, TimmyD and Dirk are on different levels, while Gasol, KG and Boozer are still one level ahead of Bosh. If he can kick up his intensity, defense and leadership skills, then and only then, would he crack my Top 5.

My only response to this, watching Bosh this year he doesn't lack any of those three traits and they aren't exactly possessed by Gasol, Boozer, or Amare

rhymeratic
01-29-2010, 04:29 PM
Ok that's it, time to get hood with the talk and speak tough.

Chris Bosh is a VERY good player, he's NOT an ELITE player!
We ALL know deep down that this dude won't win you a championship on his own and even paired with another Elite player, you STILL might not win. He's just one of those guys that's weird because he has skills/talent but he's not a dominant player like that.

Chris Bosh = Paul Gasol

So however you felt about Gasol prior to him winning a championship with Kobe is essentially what Bosh is! End of story.

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 04:33 PM
Bosh usually covers the PFs not the Cs. Bargs covers the centers.


Bosh is a PF.

Bosh plays a lot of C, it often depends on the match up, but he'll guard the quickest opposing big usually.


^^^The arguement was that Bosh "mans up centers" and that he guards the 5 better than Boozer.

"Man's up" isn't an argument, all that means is he guards opposing centers man to man. As opposed to occasionally come across them and guarding C's in a zone or on switches.

Bob_at_york
01-29-2010, 04:35 PM
Ok that's it, time to get hood with the talk and speak tough.

Chris Bosh is a VERY good player, he's NOT an ELITE player!
We ALL know deep down that this dude won't win you a championship on his own and even paired with another Elite player, you STILL might not win. He's just one of those guys that's weird because he has skills/talent but he's not a dominant player like that.

Chris Bosh = Paul Gasol

So however you felt about Gasol prior to him winning a championship with Kobe is essentially what Bosh is! End of story.

I had a lot of respect for Gasol. He could do it all, he was an elite big man, the only thing I would question is his defence. What I loved was when he got double digit assists for the Griz. Man he is a great passer.

Raph12
01-29-2010, 04:36 PM
Here let me give you the list of PFs who've avged 15 or more against Bosh:
Zach Randolph, Al Harrington, Carl Landry, Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudamire, Carlos Boozer, Pau Gasol, Antawn Jamison, Tim Duncan, Luis Scola, Rashard Lewis, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Love, David West, Troy Murphy and Kenyon Martin.

Now this is the list of PFs who've avged 15 or more against Boozer:
Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, David West, Lamarcus Aldridge, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Troy Murphy, Josh Smith, Amare Stoudamire, Yi Jianlian and Kevin Love.

Any more questions?

ChiSox219
01-29-2010, 04:38 PM
Here let me give you the list of PFs who've avged 15 or more against Bosh:
Zach Randolph, Al Harrington, Carl Landry, Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudamire, Carlos Boozer, Pau Gasol, Antawn Jamison, Tim Duncan, Luis Scola, Rashard Lewis, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Love, David West, Troy Murphy and Kenyon Martin.

Now this is the list of PFs who've avged 15 or more against Boozer:
Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, David West, Lamarcus Aldridge, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Troy Murphy, Josh Smith, Amare Stoudamire, Yi Jianlian and Kevin Love.

Any more questions?

Yes, what does that prove?

BkOriginalOne
01-29-2010, 04:51 PM
Because he gets bullied and is not a great low post defender. Give him the D of JOneal, say, 6 years ago, then we can talk.
Also, he hasn't won much.

pebloemer
01-29-2010, 05:03 PM
Some great discussion in this thread. Thanks guys.

mlisica19
01-29-2010, 05:08 PM
Do you really wanna know why pple dont think Chris Bosh is that good... its cuz he lives, plays and has the fame in Canada. He plays for Toronto, unless he wins a championship or does something spectacular!!! he isnt gonna get his name huge in the states which is like 95% of the NBA. Plus hes a lil sloppy from time to time, hes getting better and turning into a great of the game in this generation but theres a reaoson why he wants to leave Toronto. Hed love to go to even the Knicks, hed be a star in New York.

twoearl
01-29-2010, 06:16 PM
Bosh > boozer flat out. Can you imagine putting bosh with D. Wills? that would be crazy. They would be they would be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the West!

dtmagnet
01-29-2010, 06:45 PM
Do you really wanna know why pple dont think Chris Bosh is that good... its cuz he lives, plays and has the fame in Canada. He plays for Toronto, unless he wins a championship or does something spectacular!!! he isnt gonna get his name huge in the states which is like 95% of the NBA. Plus hes a lil sloppy from time to time, hes getting better and turning into a great of the game in this generation but theres a reaoson why he wants to leave Toronto. Hed love to go to even the Knicks, hed be a star in New York.

Woah God gave you mind reading powers when you were born?

NyCsPoRtS1
01-29-2010, 07:02 PM
whatever shaq says goes

FlakeyFool
01-29-2010, 07:10 PM
Bosh > all other PF's in the game today.

NJBASEBALL22
01-30-2010, 02:44 AM
Oh i know, Im not comparing the two of them... Rodman is just a perfect example that stats dont mean everything.

PS... I go to school in Niagara, ON. I hope she didnt come to see the falls..
we clean up on the American girls ;)

No worries my friend, if it was you or one/a few of your buddies then I hope you enjoyed her because I got what I wanted from her while it lasted.

Also, on a more sticking to the topic note- I think Bosh got to the point or is just reaching the point that he was so underrated that he now has not lived completely up to the hype and some people now overrate him. Some people are asking a lot from him when considering what he has around him. In a weak division, he should carry that team to the playoffs (which he is) but to ask more than that is unreasonable.

ee
01-30-2010, 02:46 AM
coz he's in toronto.....just not alot of market value there, he's lucky to get the publicity he's getting now.....he had to be a cowboy to promote himself once lol.....

WhiteSoxGod
01-30-2010, 02:48 AM
I would love Bosh on the Rockets. He hasn't lived up to alot of Hype but he's a good player. Unlike Amare he has the potential to play good defense. He just needs some refinement because he finds himself out of position sometimes due mainly to him having to be a major offensive force for his team. Now put him on the Rockets with a healthy Yao next year, a good lottery pick, and all of our role players. Folks, you have yourself one hell of a team.

ldc62
01-30-2010, 04:17 AM
I would love Bosh on the Rockets. He hasn't lived up to alot of Hype but he's a good player. Unlike Amare he has the potential to play good defense. He just needs some refinement because he finds himself out of position sometimes due mainly to him having to be a major offensive force for his team. Now put him on the Rockets with a healthy Yao next year, a good lottery pick, and all of our role players. Folks, you have yourself one hell of a team.

Wow high standards... averaging 24 and 11.3 is considered just "good"??? Come on hes probably one of the best PFs in the game. If BOsh is leaving he better go to the Bulls or Rockets!

ElMarroAfamado
01-30-2010, 04:23 AM
i have seen him play plenty of times and the guy is amazing....if he goes to the right team i think he can have the effect adding gasol had for the Lakers....

ldc62
01-30-2010, 04:23 AM
honestly its a waste of time to talk to ANY raptors fans about bosh..no matter what you say to them they will always love him...its like ur own kid he mite be the a little badas$ and everyone knows it but your still gonna think hes the best kid in the world...

in my eyes i think bosh is a top pf not the best cuz thats still owned by duncan no matter what bosh does....only reason people think hes overrated is cuz we never get to see him play..im from philly n i cant tell u the last time i saw the raptors play. bosh is a hell of a player tho

No one said hes the best... They always say hes top 3. But putting Boozer or Amare ahead of him is insulting. You can also say the same thing about Mavs fans and them thinking Dirk is the undisputed best PF (Which I agree with), but some people might not. Whole point of a forum is to interact... and theres gonna be raptor fans here seeing as how its about a raptor's player.

ldc62
01-30-2010, 04:27 AM
I've yet to see Bosh "man up centers" on defense, everytime Bosh has guarded an offensively potent center, they usually light him up.

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Raptors from centers this season:
1 David Lee - 27.0ppg .558fg%
2 Chris Kaman - 25.0ppg .625fg%
3 Andrew Bynum - 21.0ppg .600fg%
4 Andrew Bogut - 20.3ppg .632fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 20.0ppg .615fg%
6 Dwight Howard - 19.8ppg .512fg%
7 Marc Gasol - 19.0ppg .750fg%
8 Matt Bonner - 18.0ppg .438%
9 Channing Frye - 17.5ppg .579fg%
10 Al Horford - 17.0ppg .824fg%
11 Jermaine O'Neal - 16.3ppg .579fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 16.0ppg .760fg%
13 Brook Lopez - 14.0ppg .571fg%
13 Shaquille O'Neal - 14.0ppg .591fg%
15 Zaza Pachulia - 12.5ppg .714fg%

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Jazz from centers this season:
1 Channing Frye - 21.0ppg .533fg%
1 Chris Kaman - 21.0ppg .667fg%
3 Al Jefferson - 19.7ppg .520fg%
4 Dwight Howard - 19.5ppg .579fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 18.7ppg .676fg%
6 Brook Lopez - 18.5ppg .560fg%
7 Andrew Bynum - 13.5ppg .500fg%
8 Charles Hayes - 12.0ppg .750fg%
8 Al Horford - 12.0ppg .857fg%
8 David Lee - 12.0ppg .500fg%
11 Nick Collison - 11.0ppg .800fg%
12 Andrea Bargnani - 10.0ppg .300fg%
12 Andrew Bogut - 10.0ppg .500fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 10.0ppg .444fg%
15 Matt Bonner - 9.2ppg .500fg%

Now that we have defense out of the way, Bosh may be better at getting to the rim, but their postgames are incomparable. Plus, Bosh gets that much more touchs than Boozer does, so comparing points or FTAs and what not are inaccurate.

I stand by my statement, TimmyD and Dirk are on different levels, while Gasol, KG and Boozer are still one level ahead of Bosh. If he can kick up his intensity, defense and leadership skills, then and only then, would he crack my Top 5.

:facepalm:

I bolded the ones that he actually had to defend against... Putting Boozer on the same level as KG??? I guess Boozer is a Future HOF for sure (Sarcasm). Seriously tho, you must be a jazz fan?



Here let me give you the list of PFs who've avged 15 or more against Bosh:
Zach Randolph, Al Harrington, Carl Landry, Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudamire, Carlos Boozer, Pau Gasol, Antawn Jamison, Tim Duncan, Luis Scola, Rashard Lewis, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Love, David West, Troy Murphy and Kenyon Martin.

Now this is the list of PFs who've avged 15 or more against Boozer:
Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, David West, Lamarcus Aldridge, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Troy Murphy, Josh Smith, Amare Stoudamire, Yi Jianlian and Kevin Love.

Any more questions?

Why is it set at 15 points? In the NBA today, half of that could've been freethrows. So apparently this is the new system for ranking players? BTW Bosh has the 5th highest PER in the NBA. Wheres Boozer? O I can't even see him on the page cuz hes so far down (26th).

So Boozer is apparently better than Bosh, but the coaches didn't even vote him into the all-star game?

NJBASEBALL22
01-30-2010, 04:42 AM
:facepalm:

I bolded the ones that he actually had to defend against... Putting Boozer on the same level as KG??? I guess Boozer is a Future HOF for sure (Sarcasm). Seriously tho, you must be a jazz fan?




Why is it set at 15 points? In the NBA today, half of that could've been freethrows. So apparently this is the new system for ranking players? BTW Bosh has the 5th highest PER in the NBA. Wheres Boozer? O I can't even see him on the page cuz hes so far down (26th).

So Boozer is apparently better than Bosh, but the coaches didn't even vote him into the all-star game?


You got here a little late. The reason he posted that about the centers is because someone said Bosh usually guards the other teams centers so the other guy said so does Boozer and then listed how each center faired against their team.

Also, I think he is comparing Boozer more to KG now rather than when he was in his prime. KG now is far from his prime, mainly because of injuries and not being able to keep his high intensity up, and because with the talent around him he doesn't need to be the alpha dog.

ldc62
01-30-2010, 05:57 AM
You got here a little late. The reason he posted that about the centers is because someone said Bosh usually guards the other teams centers so the other guy said so does Boozer and then listed how each center faired against their team.

Also, I think he is comparing Boozer more to KG now rather than when he was in his prime. KG now is far from his prime, mainly because of injuries and not being able to keep his high intensity up, and because with the talent around him he doesn't need to be the alpha dog.

Clearly he does not.

NJBASEBALL22
01-30-2010, 06:10 AM
Clearly he does not.

I wouldn't know. I bearly watch the raptors unless they are playing the Nets and if so I am probably still not watching because I don't really like the Nets much. I was just telling you why the dude made that arguement. I could careless who Bosh guards.

ChiSox219
01-30-2010, 10:48 AM
Clearly he does not.

He does

dtmagnet
01-30-2010, 11:20 AM
I'd say its about even between time spent guarding C's and Pf's for him. The one thing that convinces me that Bosh isn't as bad defensively as people perceive him, is that he often will switch off his man and guard the opposing PG or SG with the ball in their hands. His length and quickness always seem to cause a problem for the guards when he does that.

WhiteSoxGod
01-30-2010, 01:57 PM
I've yet to see Bosh "man up centers" on defense, everytime Bosh has guarded an offensively potent center, they usually light him up.

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Raptors from centers this season:
1 David Lee - 27.0ppg .558fg%
2 Chris Kaman - 25.0ppg .625fg%
3 Andrew Bynum - 21.0ppg .600fg%
4 Andrew Bogut - 20.3ppg .632fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 20.0ppg .615fg%
6 Dwight Howard - 19.8ppg .512fg%
7 Marc Gasol - 19.0ppg .750fg%
8 Matt Bonner - 18.0ppg .438%
9 Channing Frye - 17.5ppg .579fg%
10 Al Horford - 17.0ppg .824fg%
11 Jermaine O'Neal - 16.3ppg .579fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 16.0ppg .760fg%
13 Brook Lopez - 14.0ppg .571fg%
13 Shaquille O'Neal - 14.0ppg .591fg%
15 Zaza Pachulia - 12.5ppg .714fg%

This is a list of the Top 15 Highest Avgs against the Jazz from centers this season:
1 Channing Frye - 21.0ppg .533fg%
1 Chris Kaman - 21.0ppg .667fg%
3 Al Jefferson - 19.7ppg .520fg%
4 Dwight Howard - 19.5ppg .579fg%
5 Nene Hilario - 18.7ppg .676fg%
6 Brook Lopez - 18.5ppg .560fg%
7 Andrew Bynum - 13.5ppg .500fg%
8 Charles Hayes - 12.0ppg .750fg%
8 Al Horford - 12.0ppg .857fg%
8 David Lee - 12.0ppg .500fg%
11 Nick Collison - 11.0ppg .800fg%
12 Andrea Bargnani - 10.0ppg .300fg%
12 Andrew Bogut - 10.0ppg .500fg%
12 Kendrick Perkins - 10.0ppg .444fg%
15 Matt Bonner - 9.2ppg .500fg%

Now that we have defense out of the way, Bosh may be better at getting to the rim, but their postgames are incomparable. Plus, Bosh gets that much more touchs than Boozer does, so comparing points or FTAs and what not are inaccurate.

I stand by my statement, TimmyD and Dirk are on different levels, while Gasol, KG and Boozer are still one level ahead of Bosh. If he can kick up his intensity, defense and leadership skills, then and only then, would he crack my Top 5.

If you look at the highlighted player they scored less on Bosh so you missed one haha. But it's not an accurate comparison. The team defenses aren't comparable and you can't say that is due to one player. Utah is 12th in the league and Toronto is 26th. Basketball is a team game so is defense. Toronto scores more than Utah however so there is that. Bosh needs refinement and could stand the use of a better team. He's a great rebounder, young, and still has a lot of potential to get better.