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View Full Version : Warriors may offer Monta Ellis for Ray Allen



JordansBulls
01-25-2010, 08:09 PM
Link (http://www.csnne.com/pages/landing_celtics?Warriors-may-offer-Ellis-for-Ray-Allen=1&blockID=168603&feedID=3945)




The trading deadline is less than a month away, and rumors seem to grow like algae.

This is especially true when it comes to players with expiring contracts such as Boston's Ray Allen.

While the Celtics have maintained repeatedly that they have no intentions of moving any of their core guys between now and the Feb. 18 trading deadline -- and I believe 'em on this one -- multiple league sources confirmed today that the Golden State Warriors are giving some thought to putting together a trade package that would involve Monta Ellis going to Boston in exchange for Allen.

The Warriors see rookie Stephen Curry as the face of the franchise moving forward. One league source said the Warriors believe that Curry won't develop at the rate they would like as long as Ellis is around.

Golden State saw flashes of just how talented Curry can be against New Jersey earlier this week when playing without Ellis.

With Ellis out with a sprained right ankle, Curry went off for a career-high 32 points.

For such a deal to work, the Warriors would have to include at least one additional salary. The most likely player to be included would be Vladamir Radmonovic, who has a player option after this season but isn't expected to exercise it.

Danny Ainge, Boston's president of basketball operations, has talked to a number of teams about a number of players recently.

But it doesn't appear that this is a deal he has given any serious thought to considering.

Ainge has said repeatedly that he wants to see how the Celtics, as they are currently constructed, play together when relatively healthy.

Boston has yet to play a game this season with an entirely healthy roster.

That means any deal involving the C's likely won't happen until shortly before the deadline, which is about the time that Marquis Daniels (left thumb) is expected back.

While this deal would certainly give Boston another high powered scorer, on the surface it appears to hurt them in many, many ways.

Of the team's Big Three, only the 34-year-old Allen has played in all 41 games this season. Meanwhile, Ellis has a history of injuries even before his most recent setback.

Plus, Ellis is one of those players who is at his best when he has the ball in his hands.

Doing that in Boston means taking it out of the hands of Rondo, which is something the Celtics don't want to do.

And then there's the whole issue of chemistry and defense - two areas that are not considered strongsuits of Ellis.

As you can see, adding a player of Ellis' caliber poses a number of challenges, the kind of challenges a veteran, championship-caliber team usually passes on.

While it's certainly worth monitoring, fans shouldn't expect to see Monta Ellis in a Celtics uniform anytime soon.

GodsSon
01-25-2010, 08:15 PM
take out Ray Allen from the Celtics and they kill their championship aspirations

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 08:17 PM
^Yeah. Ray Allen has found his niche, and his team, move him, and see what you get, a championship-less Allen. ;(

But seriously, I really laughed at this thread before I clicked on it. I took a nap for 2 hours, and wake up to find the most hilarious things you could ever read on PSD, this is one of them.

kjoke
01-25-2010, 08:22 PM
rondo and monta? i dont think thatll be the best

magichatnumber9
01-25-2010, 08:22 PM
I really understand where Golden State is going with this. Ray Allen would be the best mentor that Stephen Curry could get in this league. Ray and Dell Curry are good friends and I believe they are both involved in the church. There is no payoff for Boston in this deal.

Trouble87
01-25-2010, 08:26 PM
I think this will make the Celts unstoppable if it goes down

mikantsass
01-25-2010, 08:30 PM
Thanks, but no thanks.

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 08:34 PM
I think this will make the Celts unstoppable if it goes down

Nope. I can't see it working at all. Monta adoors shot-chucking more than one can fathom. I like Monta, and he has a good gameplay, but he's just another smaller, quicker version of Baron Davis. He's a spark, but that's not what the Celtics need. the Celtics need to keep their team the way it is. They've got great chemistry, and can win games, that's what matters. Why try to spice up a team, and put someone you're not sure about, on the team, for one of your most coveted starters? Rondo, and Ellis? Are you kidding me? That would be HORRIBLE. On top of that, everyone would have less FGA because Monta would take up half of them.

It's kind of like the Vince Carter thing. I know my Magic buds won't be to happy, but they know that Vince has taken away numerous shots for Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis, Jameer Nelson, etc. That's why some of our starters are averaging less, and not playing with the same all-star caliber as last season.

TheWatcher34
01-25-2010, 08:35 PM
I think this will make the Celts unstoppable if it goes down

how naive. :facepalm:
adding Ellis means no defense, less chamistry, on top of that he's a ball hog. The Celtics' success is all about sharing the ball; everyone has their assigned role and they are best when they make that extra pass and get the best shot.
Even if Ellis would average 24 PPG, this is not the deal the C's should be looking for.
however the pressure is on the C's fomr now on. Ainge will be watching closely and if necessary he will blow up the 'big three' and find a proper alternative.
due to age the window of opportunities is closing on the C's players...dont get me wrong i thing Ellis is a great player, but it's too early to throw him in the mix with Rondo and Pierce.

Hawkeye15
01-25-2010, 08:38 PM
why would Boston do this, unless there were more pieces? Allen is coming off the books, knows their system as they, lets face it, go for one last ring with this group. Ellis is small, has a long term deal, and his ankle has to cause some concern down the line.
If Boston does this, Ainge returns to his old GM form, before he was given 2 gifts, and became a good GM all of a sudden...

jim51990
01-25-2010, 08:38 PM
i say do it ray is on the way out monta helps build for the future and also i think makes the c's better now also

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 08:40 PM
You can differentiate the real Celtics' fans from the fake ones.

bal_ravens
01-25-2010, 08:40 PM
Would be a pretty bad deal for the Warriors. Atleast they would get some cap relief.

DCB/LAL
01-25-2010, 08:42 PM
I actually think this would work for Boston they have the Defense so they'll be alright Monta will bring enery and an Offensive burst to the C's which I think would help them. :shrug:


Only problem is he'd have to learn to play with PP and KG and alongside Rondo which can ruin the chemistry so IDK.

allvalleychamp
01-25-2010, 08:44 PM
this will not go down...it makes no sense to trade a all-star caliber 23 year old for an aging 2 guard, what does cap relief help when no one will sign in GS...no way this happens

Young and Stupid
01-25-2010, 08:46 PM
You can differentiate the real Celtics' fans from the fake ones.

Yup.

Nintendo_Jones
01-25-2010, 08:48 PM
how naive. :facepalm:
adding Ellis means no defense, less chamistry, on top of that he's a ball hog. The Celtics' success is all about sharing the ball; everyone has their assigned role and they are best when they make that extra pass and get the best shot.
Even if Ellis would average 24 PPG, this is not the deal the C's should be looking for.
however the pressure is on the C's fomr now on. Ainge will be watching closely and if necessary he will blow up the 'big three' and find a proper alternative.

How naive. You don't know Monta Ellis.
When he had a point guard like Baron Davis to play with, he played off the ball. When he played off the ball, he shot over 50% from the field. It was only after the departure of Baron Davis that Monta became a first option and a ball hog. Rondo would be the ballhandler. Also- Monta Ellis isn't really a first option quality player. He's a second option, at best, or a third option, which would be ideal. I think he could learn to thrive in a system where he was playing with multiple players that were offensive options before him (KG and Paul Pierce.)
His turnover problems are created by the fact that he really is an undersized 2 and not a point guard. Again- this problem would be fixed by him playing with a real point guard.
His outside shooting, though not as good as Ray Allen, is pretty good this year. Last I checked, he was shooting above 30%. Not great, but not awful.
Ellis has kinda figured out how to guard guys bigger than him. He isn't a defensive stopper, but neither is Ray Allen. Ray Allen really isn't a very good defensive player anymore, so this is, at worst, a wash. Monta Ellis does get you a lot of steals and forced turnovers. Rondo + Ellis in the backcourt=5.5 steals a game from your guards.
I don't know if the Celtics would do this, but the Warriors would be total idiots to do it.

ChiSox219
01-25-2010, 08:48 PM
Agree with everyone who said this trade makes little sense for Boston.

What if the Warriors included Anthony Randolph + Monta? Boston would have to at least consider that

Luke_K77bear
01-25-2010, 08:52 PM
For Ray Allen? So they save cap space for all those great free agents that can't wait to sign with golden state.

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 08:55 PM
Hmm..

I ASKED HER WHOS THE MAN, & SHE SAID B.I.G., THEN I BUST IN HER EYE!

Corey
01-25-2010, 08:56 PM
As a C's fan, I'd rather this doesn't happen. It would be nice to get a young player so we have a future of Ellis, Rondo, and Perk...But we need Ray as our 3-point threat.

avrpatsfan
01-25-2010, 08:58 PM
Ellis is 24 I think. Isn't Ray Allen 34? I would do this trade. Rivers did a great job of getting everybody on the Celtics shots (After they got Garnett and Allen) I'm fine with giving him the ball. He's phenomenal young player. He can play a lot of minutes (42 minutes a game)
Rondo
Ellis
Pierce
Garnett
Perkins

Very good

unwantedplayer
01-25-2010, 09:00 PM
I wouldn't mind him considering that Ray is now 1 dimensional now and going younger overall isn't such a bad thing, but I like the team we have now and Ray seems to be a really reliable 3-point thread.

And honestly, you can't pick out fake and real Celtics fans. Its a damn opinion and some people here are too immature to grow up.

avrpatsfan
01-25-2010, 09:02 PM
As a C's fan, I'd rather this doesn't happen. It would be nice to get a young player so we have a future of Ellis, Rondo, and Perk...But we need Ray as our 3-point threat.

Agreed but he is a very streaky shooter and we won't even have him next year. (Ray Allen) Rondo+Ellis+Perkins = Big 3 V3 :clap:

But seriously, it would set us up for future success. Rondo is a top 5 PG in this league, Perkins is great on D, great rebounder, and has the highest FG percentage in the league. Ellis would be our scorer and should do even better as a previous poster stated with Rondo, a great distributor.

kozelkid
01-25-2010, 09:04 PM
I really don't get how people don't understand the concept of spacing and how certain players fit certain systems. ELLIS DOESN'T FIT THE CELTICS IN ANYWAY. And for him to be "allstar caliber" he has to be efficient offensively and he isn't. Celtics thrive on great chemistry and spacing. Putting Ellis on that team makes Rondo and the team as a whole worse because the spacing is worse and less movement.

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 09:05 PM
I wouldn't mind him considering that Ray is now 1 dimensional now and going younger overall isn't such a bad thing, but I like the team we have now and Ray seems to be a really reliable 3-point thread.

And honestly, you can't pick out fake and real Celtics fans. Its a damn opinion and some people here are too immature to grow up.

Actually you can. Your statement is ridiculously stupid, I hope you know. You're known as one of the biggest trolls on PSD, and it's known to almost everyone. Stop acting like you know exactly what you're talking about. Doesn't take a genius to know the Celtics' chemistry is perfect, so why would you change it? Answer the question, this is a serious one. To any REAL Celtics' fan, what do you think would be the right thing to do?

unwantedplayer
01-25-2010, 09:12 PM
Actually you can. Your statement is ridiculously stupid, I hope you know. You're known as one of the biggest trolls on PSD, and it's known to almost everyone. Stop acting like you know exactly what you're talking about. Doesn't take a genius to know the Celtics' chemistry is perfect, so why would you change it? Answer the question, this is a serious one. To any REAL Celtics' fan, what do you think would be the right thing to do?

im a troll?

lol


you are trolling right now bud, keep it up

truth is you keep allen you have a good chance to win it this year, you trade him you look for a better future. Its a win win either way, so answer this, what are you trying to tell me?

jojoe1188
01-25-2010, 09:13 PM
i agree with everyone who says this would definitely hurt the celtics chances of winning this year....but at the same time i also think the celtics need to start thinking about the future to some extent, and a few years down the road i think rondo with ellis as the #1 scorer and perk would be sick.

Sportfan
01-25-2010, 09:14 PM
how naive. :facepalm:
adding Ellis means no defense, less chamistry, on top of that he's a ball hog. The Celtics' success is all about sharing the ball; everyone has their assigned role and they are best when they make that extra pass and get the best shot.
Even if Ellis would average 24 PPG, this is not the deal the C's should be looking for.
however the pressure is on the C's fomr now on. Ainge will be watching closely and if necessary he will blow up the 'big three' and find a proper alternative.
due to age the window of opportunities is closing on the C's players...dont get me wrong i thing Ellis is a great player, but it's too early to throw him in the mix with Rondo and Pierce.
I'd take Monta Ellis defense anyday over Allen. Allen is a horrible man on man defender and Monta has over 2 SPG

jojoe1188
01-25-2010, 09:18 PM
I'd take Monta Ellis defense anyday over Allen. Allen is a horrible man on man defender and Monta has over 2 SPG

x2, idk why everyone is dumping on ellis' defense relative to allen's. i think the celtics system makes ray seem better than he is (defensively) IMO

_KB24_
01-25-2010, 09:18 PM
Boston, why not just commit suicide instead? Horrible deal for the Celtics. They would go from arguably the best/2nd best team in the NBA to kissing their contender status goodbye.

Public Enemy #1
01-25-2010, 09:21 PM
Bad deal for the Celtics? Worse deal for the Warriors. Obviously you guys don't watch the Warriors and Ellis. Ellis isn't a bad defender, at least not as bas as Allen. Ellis can get to the rim whenever he wants, Allen can't. Allen owns Ellis at his pure shooting ability but other than that.... Not going to happen

Giants27
01-25-2010, 09:22 PM
That would be the worst trade over for GS

ChiSox219
01-25-2010, 09:24 PM
Bad deal for the Celtics? Worse deal for the Warriors. Obviously you guys don't watch the Warriors and Ellis. Ellis isn't a bad defender, at least not as bas as Allen. Ellis can get to the rim whenever he wants, Allen can't. Allen owns Ellis at his pure shooting ability but other than that.... Not going to happen

I watched Ellis just the other day.

He took 39 shots and scored 36 points.

The Celtics already have Rondo who can get to the basket whenever he wants and to a lesser extent, Paul Pierce.

The Celtics are bona fide title contenders, this deal would change that.

montazingmvp
01-25-2010, 09:24 PM
I really don't get how people don't understand the concept of spacing and how certain players fit certain systems. ELLIS DOESN'T FIT THE CELTICS IN ANYWAY. And for him to be "allstar caliber" he has to be efficient offensively and he isn't. Celtics thrive on great chemistry and spacing. Putting Ellis on that team makes Rondo and the team as a whole worse because the spacing is worse and less movement.

monta showed in the past that when he's surrounded by a lot of talent, and has a good distributing pg he can be one of the most prolific and efficient scorers in the league...

the fact that people are saying monta cannot play without the ball in his hands, is about as asinine as it gets...

i think people are forgetting that monta was ridiculously efficient during the we believe years for the warriors...

for the second half of 2007 he shot somewhere near 60% from the field..he shot 53% on the season...c'mon people

JDizzle
01-25-2010, 09:27 PM
I think the Celtics should do it get younger and monte is surrounded by rondo the truth and kg. The celtics would become my clear favorite to win the east if they did this trade

montazingmvp
01-25-2010, 09:27 PM
I watched Ellis just the other day.

He took 39 shots and scored 36 points.

The Celtics already have Rondo who can get to the basket whenever he wants and to a lesser extent, Paul Pierce.

The Celtics are bona fide title contenders, this deal would change that.

monta wouldn't be shooting that much with talent around him. as he's shown in the past.

btw...why in the hell would the warriors do this trade. i mean i know management is terrible, but this just makes the team worse. i don't believe this...

shizzle09
01-25-2010, 09:29 PM
WOW, Thats nowhere near close to fair for the W's. unreal if they make this trade. Would just add to a long list of ******** front office moves. Yeah Alle is a seasoned Vet that can shoot the lights out but Monta is young and emerging.

sully00
01-25-2010, 09:29 PM
As a Celtic fan I actually was interested in moving Rondo for Ellis before the season and the extension. I just think Ellis is going to be worth 11 mil a year long term and while I am a big fan of Rondo I am not sure he will be once he no longer has 3 HOF's around him. That said whether or not we bring Ray back (which I hope we do) we can't replace him with Ellis and have a backcourt with two guys on under 6'3" who can't make a 3 or score efficiently in the halfcourt.

ChiSox219
01-25-2010, 09:29 PM
monta showed in the past that when he's surrounded by a lot of talent, and has a good distributing pg he can be one of the most prolific and efficient scorers in the league...

the fact that people are saying monta cannot play without the ball in his hands, is about as asinine as it gets...

i think people are forgetting that monta was ridiculously efficient during the we believe years for the warriors...

for the second half of 2007 he shot somewhere near 60% from the field..he shot 53% on the season...c'mon people

And yet Ray Allen still had a more efficient year shooting the ball in 07-08 and he played a key role in the Celtics Championship.

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 09:35 PM
unwantedplayer

My point is, you told me that it's just an opinion, but it's not. It's a fact the Celtics would be better keeping Allen as of now.

unwantedplayer
01-25-2010, 09:36 PM
And it's a fact that it would help them in the future............

TheWatcher34
01-25-2010, 09:38 PM
How naive. You don't know Monta Ellis.
When he had a point guard like Baron Davis to play with, he played off the ball. When he played off the ball, he shot over 50% from the field. It was only after the departure of Baron Davis that Monta became a first option and a ball hog. Rondo would be the ballhandler. Also- Monta Ellis isn't really a first option quality player. He's a second option, at best, or a third option, which would be ideal. I think he could learn to thrive in a system where he was playing with multiple players that were offensive options before him (KG and Paul Pierce.)
His turnover problems are created by the fact that he really is an undersized 2 and not a point guard. Again- this problem would be fixed by him playing with a real point guard.
His outside shooting, though not as good as Ray Allen, is pretty good this year. Last I checked, he was shooting above 30%. Not great, but not awful.
Ellis has kinda figured out how to guard guys bigger than him. He isn't a defensive stopper, but neither is Ray Allen. Ray Allen really isn't a very good defensive player anymore, so this is, at worst, a wash. Monta Ellis does get you a lot of steals and forced turnovers. Rondo + Ellis in the backcourt=5.5 steals a game from your guards.
I don't know if the Celtics would do this, but the Warriors would be total idiots to do it.

reasonable first post. welcome to PSD.

bagwell368
01-25-2010, 09:38 PM
Nonsense


I am all for trading Allen but not for Ellis.

iggypop123
01-25-2010, 09:40 PM
they can kiss defense goodbye but the good thing is ellis can play 48 min so that bench never gets used

sully00
01-25-2010, 09:40 PM
One thing I didn't think of was trading Ray for Ellis and Maggette which would allow Boston to start Maggette and use Ellis as a super sub off the bench for any of the 3 perimeter starters and make them as difficult a match up as you could have in the NBA.

Really love Ray Allen though.

glorydays22
01-25-2010, 09:45 PM
why would Golden State trade a young all-star for a 34/35 yr old 2 guard?? Makes no sense...great deal for Boston since they are over the cap and won't see daylight for a while. A nice young backcourt of Rondo/Ellis

BlueJayFanDan
01-25-2010, 09:45 PM
Normally I would agree with a team going out and trying to get younger but why would Boston trade Ray. He is a great player and leader. If they replace him i don't think they would be nearly as good and no way would they win a championship this year. On the other hand their core is getting older and if this oppurtunity feels right to build a great backcourt for the future I say do it but they would likely cost themselves a chance at a championship this year.

magichatnumber9
01-25-2010, 09:57 PM
I really don't get how people don't understand the concept of spacing and how certain players fit certain systems. ELLIS DOESN'T FIT THE CELTICS IN ANYWAY. And for him to be "allstar caliber" he has to be efficient offensively and he isn't. Celtics thrive on great chemistry and spacing. Putting Ellis on that team makes Rondo and the team as a whole worse because the spacing is worse and less movement.
Dude why do you have to have two freaking D.Rose clips on your sig. It unnecessary and it freezes my ****ing computer

kikeyanez
01-25-2010, 10:04 PM
its like tradeing dale davis an speedy claxton for baron but this time the warriors get dale an speedy in return! allen is a bumb! a washed up guard! the celtics get a allstar caliber player if this rumer is true

Jays Claw
01-25-2010, 10:04 PM
The Celtics don't need Monta Ellis.

Sly Guy
01-25-2010, 10:05 PM
"Golden State saw flashes of just how talented Curry can be against New Jersey earlier this week when playing without Ellis."

this is where I stopped reading. Because even a peg legged Michael Redd could look good against the nets at this precise moment in time.

HookerFighter
01-25-2010, 10:12 PM
im probably gona have to bathe in some wet noodles before i decide on this one

Jays Claw
01-25-2010, 10:18 PM
While this deal would certainly give Boston another high powered scorer, on the surface it appears to hurt them in many, many ways.

I couldn't have said it any better. :clap:


Monta Ellis is one of those players who is at his best when he has the ball in his hands.

The Celtics tend to play team basketball. It would seriously kill their chemistry if they brought in a guy who demands thirty shots a game. It would also throw Rajon Rondo off his game. And last time I checked, the Celtics play at another level when Rajon Rondo is on his game.


Doing that in Boston means taking it out of the hands of Rajon Rondo, which is something the Celtics don't want to do.

I've already explained myself.


While it's certainly worth monitoring, fans shouldn't expect to see Monta Ellis in a Celtics uniform anytime soon.

It would be best if the Celtics pass on this guy.

sf-fanatic
01-25-2010, 10:26 PM
I watched Ellis just the other day.

He took 39 shots and scored 36 points.

The Celtics already have Rondo who can get to the basket whenever he wants and to a lesser extent, Paul Pierce.

The Celtics are bona fide title contenders, this deal would change that.

cool you saw one game and it happened to go into overtime. if you watched the warriors more than once you would know the warriors only had 4 rotation players + devean george as the starter and the bench consisted of 3 mid season d-league callups. who would you want to be taking the shots? i think every warrior attempted double digit shots in the game and the 4 regular rotation players had big games.

seems like everyone forgot, when the warriors went to the playoffs, monta ellis was the teams 3rd option behind baron davis and stephen jackson. he CAN play without the ball in his hands when he is surrounded by talent. wasnt he ultra efficient that year too? i believe he shot 53% from the field that year.

keep doubting monta ellis. its happened throughout his career and life. id rather keep him imo than get allen in return.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gYiR018WP0

twoearl
01-25-2010, 10:31 PM
this would be a terrible trade. Curry had two good games now all of a sudden he is a franchise player? lol Monte's ceiling is MUCH higher than Curry's.

Jays Claw
01-25-2010, 10:36 PM
With the way the Warriors are taking things, I wouldn't be surprised to see Stephen Curry turn out to be a Monta Ellis clone. Just because the kid had a couple of good performances doesn't mean he's the face of the franchise.

ElMarroAfamado
01-25-2010, 10:36 PM
I think this will make the Celts unstoppable if it goes down

in my opinion...the celtics chances are already slim and doing this would make their chances even less im watching them against the clippers right now and the celtics are pretty much done....

arkanian215
01-25-2010, 10:41 PM
i hope the warriors are terrible in 2012. the nets have their pick. i think it's something like top 7 protected after the revised trade. i also hope dallas loses the rest of their games cuz we have their pick this upcoming draft. we need the help!

twoearl
01-25-2010, 10:41 PM
With the way the Warriors are taking things, I wouldn't be surprised to see Stephen Curry turn out to be a Monta Ellis clone. Just because the kid had a couple of good performances doesn't mean he's the face of the franchise.

I agree. The Warriors FO obviously have no clue what the he!! they are doing. They were playing their best all around player Randolph 3 min a game and now they are trying to trade their most talented player for a 45 yr old SG....lol

montazingmvp
01-25-2010, 10:47 PM
And yet Ray Allen still had a more efficient year shooting the ball in 07-08 and he played a key role in the Celtics Championship.

i don't think thats true. ray allen shot better from three, but monta shot a much better fg%...not sure what the ts% of each player is from that year, but i'd bet monta's is better, or atleast very close...so again you're wrong

Super.
01-25-2010, 10:47 PM
Thanks but no thanks. Ill take a clutch 3 from Ray anyday over just about any player in the league

ChiSox219
01-25-2010, 10:50 PM
cool you saw one game and it happened to go into overtime. if you watched the warriors more than once you would know the warriors only had 4 rotation players + devean george as the starter and the bench consisted of 3 mid season d-league callups. who would you want to be taking the shots? i think every warrior attempted double digit shots in the game and the 4 regular rotation players had big games.

seems like everyone forgot, when the warriors went to the playoffs, monta ellis was the teams 3rd option behind baron davis and stephen jackson. he CAN play without the ball in his hands when he is surrounded by talent. wasnt he ultra efficient that year too? i believe he shot 53% from the field that year.

keep doubting monta ellis. its happened throughout his career and life. id rather keep him imo than get allen in return.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gYiR018WP0

It's more than just one game, he's been terribly inefficient this season and the Warriors play better when he's on the bench.

I know all about the Warriors injury problems, I think everyone that follows the NBA knows. In that game against the Bulls (which did not go to OT), Ellis should've gotten the ball more to Maggette (11-14 .786), Curry (9-18), and Biedrins (4-5). No reason or excuse for him to put up 39 shots at under 36% clip.

Yes, Ellis shot very well that year, but Ray Allen was still better and Ellis has yet to duplicate that year's efficiency.

He''d be the perfect 6th man if he can develop a 3 pointer.

ChiSox219
01-25-2010, 10:57 PM
i don't think thats true. ray allen shot better from three, but monta shot a much better fg%...not sure what the ts% of each player is from that year, but i'd bet monta's is better, or atleast very close...so again you're wrong

Allen had the higher TS%, but I'm not going to argue with you because now you are making false accusations, I haven't been wrong once in this thread.

montazingmvp
01-25-2010, 10:59 PM
It's more than just one game, he's been terribly inefficient this season and the Warriors play better when he's on the bench.

I know all about the Warriors injury problems, I think everyone that follows the NBA knows. In that game against the Bulls (which did not go to OT), Ellis should've gotten the ball more to Maggette (11-14 .786), Curry (9-18), and Biedrins (4-5). No reason or excuse for him to put up 39 shots at under 36% clip.

Yes, Ellis shot very well that year, but Ray Allen was still better and Ellis has yet to duplicate that year's efficiency.

He''d be the perfect 6th man if he can develop a 3 pointer.

lol you say this as if he's not even a capable 6th man. were talking about a player thats putting up huge numbers. monta is a really good player. and is putting up inefficient numbers because he's being asked to do too much because half of his team is injured...

in every other season in his career, he's been an incredibly efficient scorer...

montazingmvp
01-25-2010, 11:02 PM
Allen had the higher TS%, but I'm not going to argue with you because now you are making false accusations, I haven't been wrong once in this thread.

could you just cite your source that has monta and ray allens ts% from that year. i would like to see what they were...or just post them...

you're completely ignoring facts that people are making regarding monta...

throughout his career he's been and incredibly efficient scorer, if put in the right role. you're looking at one season from monta that was inefficient, compared to several that were incredibly efficient...

kingkenny01
01-25-2010, 11:07 PM
the celtic if they do this move will be like in the nfl richard seymore for raider draft pick
the celtic will be better later but no this season
since there will mostly only be good for two or three season this is a dumb
i mean there entire team will retire except rondo and they will be worse than they were three years ago
i ****ing hate the celtics (except ray allen, bucks fan) so i look forward to the day KG, Paul Pierce, Rasheed Wallace and Ray Allen retire then they will be worse than the ****ing nets

td0tsfinest
01-25-2010, 11:07 PM
Why try to fix something if it ain't broke?

The Celtics are the best team in the league when healthy. Why disrupt chemistry?

smith&wesson
01-25-2010, 11:31 PM
It honestly makes 0 sence to me.

why would you trade a yonge border line all star player for a 34 year old ???

ok so curry and ellis dont play well together, cant golden state trade ellis for a yonger player that can play with curry for years to come ? i really dont get golden state they went from being one of my favourit teams when they had baron davis, al harington, monte ellis, & jason richardson. They completly blew that team up and for nothing really and are now one of the worst teams in the west. thats terrible terrible management. i really feel for golden state fans, they actually had a nice team just a couple years ago and it went all down hill from there. they have a nice yonge player in curry they should trade ellis for a yonger player who compliments curry's style of play and so they can play together for years to come. you dont go and get a 34 years old who will retire in a couple years. why would allen even want to finish his career on a losing team ? this is crazy talk.

thedfactor
01-25-2010, 11:41 PM
Ellis just doesn't seem like a Boston player. He wouldn't fit well there and the Celtics wouldn't trade one of their key players with hopes Monta worked out. This would definitely benefit Golden State only in my opinion, but either way Boston will not consider it.

Kakaroach
01-25-2010, 11:43 PM
I don't see why the Celtics would do this trade at all. Just doesn't make any sense for him.

Kdirt
01-26-2010, 12:01 AM
I actually am in huge favor of this trade. Would open up alot of possibilities with over 20M in cap space for 2010. We would still have a very solid young team. Curry, Randolph, Biedrins, and Maggette.

Afridi786
01-26-2010, 12:03 AM
Warriors just don't want to win, move a borderline all star for an over the hill one, if you want cap relief, at least get some young talent to go with it.

b_rad23
01-26-2010, 12:07 AM
if they move ellis, they better move maggette...

one without the other would be ********

PurpleJesus
01-26-2010, 12:14 AM
this would be the best thing possible for Ellis, Ellis would be the biggest beneficiary if this went down.

djeller1139
01-26-2010, 12:24 AM
Warriors just don't want to win, move a borderline all star for an over the hill one, if you want cap relief, at least get some young talent to go with it.

Exactly.

Unless we really expect to improve in the draft/FA class this year, moving Ellis makes no sense fore us...

He's locked up long term for an affordable price and could be a major piece if we add a real PF.

shizzle09
01-26-2010, 12:38 AM
It's more than just one game, he's been terribly inefficient this season and the Warriors play better when he's on the bench.

I know all about the Warriors injury problems, I think everyone that follows the NBA knows. In that game against the Bulls (which did not go to OT), Ellis should've gotten the ball more to Maggette (11-14 .786), Curry (9-18), and Biedrins (4-5). No reason or excuse for him to put up 39 shots at under 36% clip.

Yes, Ellis shot very well that year, but Ray Allen was still better and Ellis has yet to duplicate that year's efficiency.

He''d be the perfect 6th man if he can develop a 3 pointer.

are you high? W's play good for a game and a half without Monta and your trying to say they are a better team without him. Just shows you watch ZERO warrior games because thats far from the truth. Im not even a Warrior fan, i just live in the area so i watch the games and can clearly see the w's play better when Monta is on the floor especially Maggette

ESaady
01-26-2010, 12:45 AM
I barfed. This trade would be a rip off for the ages if it ever goes down. I love me some Warriors Management!

Maintain This
01-26-2010, 01:00 AM
I like ellis a lot but he doesn't fit the Celtic ways nor does he seem like he could handle the criticism that Boston Fans would give him if he were to hog the ball like he does now...just doesn't make sense....I'm not opposed to dealing Ray because he is a one dimensional player but for someone that is more team oriented than Monta Ellis...

BkOriginalOne
01-26-2010, 01:07 AM
Ray Allen is the celtics' biggest weapon in the clutch and in late game situations (see the 2008 NBA finals).
Celtics don't win it, if they don't have Ray Ray.

OaklandsFinest
01-26-2010, 01:17 AM
The only way I see this working is maybe in a 3 way trade. Like New Jersey, GS, and Boston.

New Jersey Gets: Monta Ellis, and Biedrens

Boston Gets: Devin Harris and Corey Maggette

GS Gets: Bobby Simmons, Ray Allen and NJ and Boston's first rounder

GS gets more expiring contracts, plus 2 first rounders

NJ gets two building blocks and maybe have something they can lure a Wade or LBJ there.

Boston gets younger with Devin Harris and Corey Maggette to deepin their bench.

AddiX
01-26-2010, 01:30 AM
I would love to see this just to watch how dysfunctional Rondo and Ellis could be on the same team. Those two together is a disaster I'll pay to see.

Kabowdos
01-26-2010, 01:32 AM
Why would the Warriors want to get rid of Monta Ellis? He is one of the best young guys in the league. He is efficient too.

RaptorizedKevin
01-26-2010, 01:45 AM
why destroy a championship core by adding a player who needs the ball to be effective?

iggypop123
01-26-2010, 01:51 AM
looks like GS wants in the 2010 contest. im sure their target will be Amare.

robbnen#31
01-26-2010, 02:08 AM
I am all for trading Monta Ellis, but this trade doesn't make any sense. The Celtics would be getting a great player, I'm sure he would make things happen, but he doesn't seem like a good fit for Boston. There is no point in the Warriors simply trading Ellis for an expiring contract, for whatever reason, players don't seem to be attracted to playing with the Warriors. Look at their past free agent acquisitions: Corey Maggette (over paid), Ronny Turiaf, and Mikki Moore.... They need to build from the draft and via trade.

yojoe792
01-26-2010, 02:25 AM
The only way I see this working is maybe in a 3 way trade. Like New Jersey, GS, and Boston.

New Jersey Gets: Monta Ellis, and Biedrens

Boston Gets: Devin Harris and Corey Maggette

GS Gets: Bobby Simmons, Ray Allen and NJ and Boston's first rounder

GS gets more expiring contracts, plus 2 first rounders

NJ gets two building blocks and maybe have something they can lure a Wade or LBJ there.

Boston gets younger with Devin Harris and Corey Maggette to deepin their bench.

:laugh::laugh2::badidea:

The Nets 1st rounder = John Wall, buddy.

asandhu23
01-26-2010, 02:43 AM
COHAN NEEDS TO SHOOT HIMSELF RIGHT NOW :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

OaklandsFinest
01-26-2010, 02:45 AM
It equals maybe John Wall!!!! You get 2 legit starters or a chance at John Wall? Thats the beautiful thing about the NBA you're never guaranteed the first pick by tanking your season. So I mean they have the best chance by the numbers, thats why their pick is worth 2 NBA starters and one is a possible All Star. Biedrens is a good Center/Power Forward and you play him next to Brook Lopez they would bang very well down low together.

vash9
01-26-2010, 03:01 AM
Random, but in my NBA 2K10 Association, this trade literally happened. The Warriors are 4th seed so far and the Celtics are 2nd seed.

Yeah. barely had anything to do with the topic, but hah.

MeanFinger
01-26-2010, 03:05 AM
ya but ray ray has tons of experience.. and it would help curry develop. we already know monte doesnt have his head on straight (thanks to the moped incident)

either way.... we would lose a great player and gain a great player

Chronz
01-26-2010, 03:10 AM
Im pretty sure the C's were one of those teams that had a big stat department, no way they accept.

NVme
01-26-2010, 03:21 AM
No Ray = No Ring

Raph12
01-26-2010, 03:51 AM
Don't see the C's making this trade happen.

montazingmvp
01-26-2010, 04:08 AM
Im pretty sure the C's were one of those teams that had a big stat department, no way they accept.

why do you say that? monta was statistically brilliant in 07/08...any team would love to have a player that can score like he can...you just have to put him in the correct role, and he'll flourish.

asandhu23
01-26-2010, 06:26 AM
So since 2007 playoffs... we lost baron, chris mullin, j-rich, harrington, barnes, dj mbenga, stephen jackson, mickael pietrus, marco belinelli, jamal crawford, our mascot, etc and went from playoffs to 40+ games and not making playoffs to this....

Does any non warriors fan here think we warriors fans deserve this? :( 3 years ago we could smell nba finals, now 3 years later. we can't even see a winning season.

caddiemaster
01-26-2010, 06:36 AM
This trade sucks!

kozelkid
01-26-2010, 08:23 AM
Dude why do you have to have two freaking D.Rose clips on your sig. It unnecessary and it freezes my ****ing computer

Because I can. :)
Turn off sigs then if it's bothering your computer.

kozelkid
01-26-2010, 08:24 AM
why do you say that? monta was statistically brilliant in 07/08...any team would love to have a player that can score like he can...you just have to put him in the correct role, and he'll flourish.

Ya and there's no good role for Monta on the Celtics with Rondo as pg.

KG21
01-26-2010, 08:30 AM
hehe, this wont happen like NEVER!!

ChiSox219
01-26-2010, 10:26 AM
are you high? W's play good for a game and a half without Monta and your trying to say they are a better team without him. Just shows you watch ZERO warrior games because thats far from the truth. Im not even a Warrior fan, i just live in the area so i watch the games and can clearly see the w's play better when Monta is on the floor especially Maggette

Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.
Monta on Court: 105.1
Monta off Court: 120.1
Difference: -15.0

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
Monta on Court: 111.3
Monta off Court: 112.4
Difference: -1.1

Net Points per 100 Possessions
Monta On Court-6.2
Monta off Court: +7.7

Net:-13.9

Now, because Monta has more than six times as many minutes on the court as on the bench the data is certainly less accurate than one would want. But it shouldn't be a surprise how the bad the Warriors offense is when Monta is on the court because he takes the vast majority of shots for the Warriors and he's been very inefficient when it comes shooting.

I love[d] watching the Warriors, I've seen them play this year and it's just ugly.

No I am not high, but thanks for asking.


Random, but in my NBA 2K10 Association, this trade literally happened. The Warriors are 4th seed so far and the Celtics are 2nd seed.

Yeah. barely had anything to do with the topic, but hah.

I found that interesting, it was straight up?

Maintain This
01-26-2010, 11:01 AM
The only way I see this working is maybe in a 3 way trade. Like New Jersey, GS, and Boston.

New Jersey Gets: Monta Ellis, and Biedrens

Boston Gets: Devin Harris and Corey Maggette

GS Gets: Bobby Simmons, Ray Allen and NJ and Boston's first rounder

GS gets more expiring contracts, plus 2 first rounders

NJ gets two building blocks and maybe have something they can lure a Wade or LBJ there.

Boston gets younger with Devin Harris and Corey Maggette to deepin their bench.

Maybe Bostons Second round pick but not their first...that would be ludacris....Maggette isn't that good anymore and why do we need another starting point guard in Harris when we already have Rondo...I know it will deepen our bench but Harris won't go for that...

#1Mavericksfan
01-26-2010, 11:32 AM
Rondo = Ball Hog

Ellis = Ball Hog

The Celtics are gonna need 2 basketballs with these 2 players on the same team.

JayW_1023
01-26-2010, 11:42 AM
This trade doesn't make sense for either team.

CELTICS4LYFE
01-26-2010, 11:46 AM
If this was an offseason move i would do it, but i dont like the idea of us shaking things up midseason "if it aint broke dont fix it"

From what ive been reading it seems like he's a ball hog n shoots alot, but that never hurt kobe any lol do you guys really think that would happen on this team? wit kg n paul n doc yelling at him?? i dont think so, he wouldnt come here n change the whole teams mentality. This is what everyone(haters) were saying when we first got the big 3 "oh not enough basketballs to go around how are they going to do it" but now you the whole nba copying our team

oh n mavericksfan how is rondo a ball hog??? he is a pg who runs our off. his job is to have the ball an distribute it....would you call kidd a ballhog?

Thatruth32
01-26-2010, 11:50 AM
no matter how much cap space we have no superstar wants to come here lets just be real

#1Mavericksfan
01-26-2010, 11:53 AM
If this was an offseason move i would do it, but i dont like the idea of us shaking things up midseason "if it aint broke dont fix it"

From what ive been reading it seems like he's a ball hog n shoots alot, but that never hurt kobe any lol do you guys really think that would happen on this team? wit kg n paul n doc yelling at him?? i dont think so, he wouldnt come here n change the whole teams mentality. This is what everyone(haters) were saying when we first got the big 3 "oh not enough basketballs to go around how are they going to do it" but now you the whole nba copying our team

oh n mavericksfan how is rondo a ball hog??? he is a pg who runs our off. his job is to have the ball an distribute it....would you call kidd a ballhog?


Rondo is nothing without K.G. and everybody know's that, oh and wheren't the Celtics trying to trade Rondo because the players didn't like playing with him?....you would never hear anything like that about Jason Kidd.


Rondo + Ellis in starting line up = Fail

KnicksorBust
01-26-2010, 11:57 AM
This trade doesn't make sense for either team.

I agree. Ray Ray fits perfectly in Boston and balances their team out by being their best perimeter threat. Why tie your hands for 4-5years with an unproven undersized volume scorer like Monta? Then if your G-State you gotta get more value for him than just an expiring.

CELTICS4LYFE
01-26-2010, 12:02 PM
Rondo is nothing without K.G. and everybody know's that, oh and wheren't the Celtics trying to trade Rondo because the players didn't like playing with him?....you would never hear anything like that about Jason Kidd.


Rondo + Ellis in starting line up = Fail

really? avg a triple double in the p/o is nothing w/o kg? :confused: lmao

mikantsass
01-26-2010, 12:25 PM
Just saw this:


Warriors beat writer Marcus Thompson has been "told emphatically by multiple sources that Monta [Ellis] is not being traded."

Don Nelson literally laughed when told about a proposed Monta Ellis-for-Ray Allen trade -- the Warriors are interested in shaking things up but it sounds like this was just speculation.

Gibby23
01-26-2010, 02:17 PM
This sounds like a salary dump by GS. If that is the case, they would buy ot Ray so he could go back to the Celtics.

mikantsass
01-26-2010, 02:24 PM
This sounds like a salary dump by GS. If that is the case, they would buy ot Ray so he could go back to the Celtics.

This is a stretch, but would be rediculous if it happened. If the Celtics could get Monta in the trade and then re-sign Allen after a buyout? Forget about it

Gibby23
01-26-2010, 02:42 PM
This is a stretch, but would be rediculous if it happened. If the Celtics could get Monta in the trade and then re-sign Allen after a buyout? Forget about it

I don't think it will happen because GS can probabbly get a good young player that can help the team for years to come. When I hear they discussed a deal for Ray, I think salary dump for Ellis. A 35 year old Ray has no place on that GS team, so GS can just buy him out and have the salary savings for next year. Since Boston has paid most of his contract this year the buyout would be like 5 or 6 million.

mikantsass
01-26-2010, 02:46 PM
I don't think it will happen because GS can probabbly get a good young player that can help the team for years to come. When I hear they discussed a deal for Ray, I think salary dump for Ellis. A 35 year old Ray has no place on that GS team, so GS can just buy him out and have the salary savings for next year. Since Boston has paid most of his contract this year the buyout would be like 5 or 6 million.

I agree with everything you just said. But that would be an absolute robbery if the C's could pull that off. More so than the Gasol trade.

Gibby23
01-26-2010, 02:53 PM
I agree with everything you just said. But that would be an absolute robbery if the C's could pull that off. More so than the Gasol trade.

it would be, but if GS really wants to trade Ellis and don't find another team it might happen. Boston would hve to takr back 2 expiring contracts of Claxton and george to make the deal work. This deal would also give GS enough money to go after a Max player next year.

Chronz
01-26-2010, 03:10 PM
why do you say that? monta was statistically brilliant in 07/08...any team would love to have a player that can score like he can...you just have to put him in the correct role, and he'll flourish.
He hasnt been statistically impressive since before the injuries. I have my doubt as to whether he ever regains that efficiency. Celtics play winning ball,you have to prove capable of being a winning player to replace a piece like Allen.

NickyNick
01-26-2010, 03:30 PM
Rondo is nothing without K.G. and everybody know's that, oh and wheren't the Celtics trying to trade Rondo because the players didn't like playing with him?....you would never hear anything like that about Jason Kidd.


Rondo + Ellis in starting line up = Fail

you didnt answer the question at all.....just a dumb overall post

Chronz
01-26-2010, 03:34 PM
Rondo is nothing without K.G. and everybody know's that, oh and wheren't the Celtics trying to trade Rondo because the players didn't like playing with him?....you would never hear anything like that about Jason Kidd.


Rondo + Ellis in starting line up = Fail
Rondo nothing without KG
Kidd getting along with his teammates
AND your a Mavs fan, wow

Brush up on your maverick history

Sportfan
01-26-2010, 04:46 PM
What is this ****** argument that Monta can't play on the Celtics? Wasn't this the argument against the Celtics 3 years ago? That KG Allen and Pierce couldnt share the ball? The year before coming to Boston Allen took 21 FGA per game. The last 3 years Ellis has taken an average of 17 shots a game. He could easily share the ball.

The only problem i could potentially see is Ellis going from the run and gun offense of the Warriors to the slow paced Celtics offense, but many players have made that adjustment before

Sportfan
01-26-2010, 04:49 PM
Rondo is nothing without K.G. and everybody know's that, oh and wheren't the Celtics trying to trade Rondo because the players didn't like playing with him?....you would never hear anything like that about Jason Kidd.


Rondo + Ellis in starting line up = Fail
Rondo without KG: 18.2 ppg 10.1 APG.


*****

No Ray = No Ring

Elaborate



I agree. Ray Ray fits perfectly in Boston and balances their team out by being their best perimeter threat. Why tie your hands for 4-5years with an unproven undersized volume scorer like Monta? Then if your G-State you gotta get more value for him than just an expiring.



hmmmmm let's see. best perimeter threat? Not at 34% from 3. Pierce is making more 3's and at a much higher percentage. Ellis is a great slasher and with his great quickness can get to the basket over the bigger Guards in the league.


Unproven? 26 ppg is unproven? 4-5 years at 11 mil is a great price especially since the celtics wont be able to spend any real money in FA for 3-4 years.

Allen is the 4th most important piece to the puzzle and is gone next year. We know Pierce Perkins Rondo and KG will all be back next year so this if anything opens up the window for the celtics title shot. I'd do this deal if I were the Celtics

Raidaz4Life
01-26-2010, 04:50 PM
This trade doesn't make sense for either team.

thats what i was thinking

Alwaysballin247
01-26-2010, 06:52 PM
^^^why doesn't it work for both?

Celtics get younger(future of Rondo ellis and perk, and money coming off the books when KG and paul leave)

and GS gets 19m off the books next season and I don't know why they wouldn't trade someone else over ellis but that is what they want to do bc of curry

Alwaysballin247
01-26-2010, 06:54 PM
Rondo is nothing without K.G. and everybody know's that, oh and wheren't the Celtics trying to trade Rondo because the players didn't like playing with him?....you would never hear anything like that about Jason Kidd.


Rondo + Ellis in starting line up = Fail

Might be the dumbest thing I have heard..did you watch the playoffs last season? have you beenw atching this season with KG being out?

IversonIsKrazy
01-26-2010, 06:58 PM
Ellis + Rondo as the future back-court would not be good. This trade isnt going to go down, Celtics will reject it.

CELTICS4LYFE
01-27-2010, 11:10 AM
Rondo without KG: 18.2 ppg 10.1 APG.


*****


Elaborate






hmmmmm let's see. best perimeter threat? Not at 34% from 3. Pierce is making more 3's and at a much higher percentage. Ellis is a great slasher and with his great quickness can get to the basket over the bigger Guards in the league.


Unproven? 26 ppg is unproven? 4-5 years at 11 mil is a great price especially since the celtics wont be able to spend any real money in FA for 3-4 years.

Allen is the 4th most important piece to the puzzle and is gone next year. We know Pierce Perkins Rondo and KG will all be back next year so this if anything opens up the window for the celtics title shot. I'd do this deal if I were the Celtics

key word! You cant leave him open for 3....meaning he is more of a THREAT



oh n lmao at game in the top 5 rappers!

$KnicksAndKobe$
01-27-2010, 02:09 PM
Ray Allen more of a team player and a veteran that a team needs to win a championship.
Ellis has better stats but this is all that counts in the Celtic roster

Defense
Leadership
unselfishness

Ellis takes too many shots and would really have a hard time playing in a great TEAM

Jaj18
01-27-2010, 02:21 PM
The way this would work is if Monta agrees to take less shots. When he played with baron davis he took alot less shots and was very effective. However he was also younger and developing so we don't know how he would currently play with a top point guard. Now ill admit I really haven't seen Ellis play, from what people have said and from his stats and is pretty evident he is a very good scorer. He is nowhere near the shooter as ray allen, and there will be a large decline in 3 point ability. As for defense, Ray allen is simply not the best, so I would assume this would be at the least a wash. And monta's defense would most likely be better in boston as they have great help D. This trade may hurt us a little for this year, although if he agrees to keep the ball out of his hands it also could help us slightly. But the fact is we would be getting a great player who is roughly ten years younger than ray. It would certaintly be the best decision long term for us, as ray is probably only gonna be around for another two years at most.
After the current big three leave (allen, pierce, garnett) it would give us a great trio in Perk, rondo and Ellis. We would have a great point guard, a very good defensive center who is also extremely efficient at scoring, and a player who is capable of putting up 25+ points a game. This would give us a very competitive team for years to come. While it may not be championship contender level, it would bring us closer.
Also worst case scenario Monta is gonna have a pretty high trade value, as he has the ability to go to a poor team and immediately become the top scorer there. So if monta doesn't fit too well with the Celtics, they will be able to unload him for a pretty decent package in the future.
Even with all of this I really don't see this trade going down. Ray has made it clear that he wants to remain with the celtics, this year and in the future. The celtics currently have great chemistry and when everyone is healthy they are undoubtedly championship contenders. I simply do not think that Ainge would break up this team right now while they are in search for a title. Is this the best decision? most likely it is for this current year, but probably not for the future.

Sixerlover
01-27-2010, 02:52 PM
Wow. I can't understand why the Celtics would accept that. Just messes up the chemistry that they built over the last 3 years.