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JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 09:11 PM
Jan 23, 2010

Magic vs Bobcats, Magic wins final score 106-95 in OT. In the game the Magic made a whopping 39 three point attempts. Dwight Howard had 11 points and 20 rebounds with only 11 shot attempts. A day or two before that game Charles asked Dwight during the TNT pre-All Star show when is Dwight gonna demand the ball more? Dwight answered that its ok for his teammates to jack up threes as long as theyre winning, something like that.

Magic (and non-Magic) fans do you agree with that? I dont personally agree. Dwight is the man and the offense should go through him! Man, Vince Carter I really dont like you. (ps this is not a VC bashing thread)

ManRam
01-24-2010, 09:15 PM
Jacking up as many threes as we do really sickens me. Especially when we have guys like Dwight, Jameer, Shard and Vince (in theory) who are very good at attacking and creating shots. We're worse this year than we were last year when it comes to the three point shot. It really bothers me. We didn't live and die by the three last year. We were just a good three point shooting team. This year, we definitely live and die by the three at times.

*Superman*
01-24-2010, 09:20 PM
It feels good when its dropping, but the nights when it doesn't, you would expect the club to drive it in more. I personally don't like the 3 point shooting, I like when players are more aggressive and drive first, but if nothing is going down low, then kick it out. And I rather have Dwight being a force down low then shooting 30+ 3s a game. If we would limit it to 20-25 and give Dwight extra touches, I think we would be a better team, and win more ball games.

TheWatcher34
01-24-2010, 09:23 PM
off these 20 rebounds Howard probably had something like 7 offensive boards that came off missed 3's :D

RadiantShot
01-24-2010, 09:26 PM
I'll have to agree with my fellow Magic fans above.

It's sickening when we keep jacking them up while they aren't dropping. When they are dropping, it seems like the gameplan is great. Either way, it isn't a good gameplan. We've proven we can win games while attacking, like the game against Atlanta. While other teams, we've proven we can win jacking up 3's. The game last year in the playoffs where we had 23 3's is an example. I don't like how our offense is BASED around the 3 point shot though. If our plan is Dwight kicking it out every once in a while for a 3, that's fine, but to base our plays off of the 3 point shot, seems pretty unreliable to me, even more-so, ineffective. Somehow, through all the struggles, shot-chucking, and injuries, we've been able to pull out a decent record for the first half of the season, so I'm pleased for the time being.

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 09:33 PM
Dwight needs a true PG IMHO.

SteveNash
01-24-2010, 09:34 PM
Jacking up threes is what got them to the Finals last year.

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 09:37 PM
Put him in the Suns or Mavs or any team w/ legit PG, then thats a scary team IMHO.

Raph12
01-24-2010, 09:37 PM
They drop when the ball movement is there, then as soon as they hit a couple in a row, they get complacent and resort to the chuck-a-shot strategy. Seriously, SVG needs to get something done, run more plays for Howard and get his players to stop chucking... It's really irritating.

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 09:39 PM
Jacking up threes is what got them to the Finals last year.

But its not enough. Plus, theyre attempting more threes this season.

salimstoudamire
01-24-2010, 09:50 PM
Dwight loves the three ball. In theory, the three point shot should be a low percentage shot. This means there will be more chances at rebounds on the offensive end. Usually when you get an offensive rebound, you have your man boxed out, and have a chance at a very easy put back bucket.

Raph12
01-24-2010, 09:58 PM
Dwight loves the three ball. In theory, the three point shot should be a low percentage shot. This means there will be more chances at rebounds on the offensive end. Usually when you get an offensive rebound, you have your man boxed out, and have a chance at a very easy put back bucket.

Dwight only gets 3 ORPG, and I'm sure he'd be willing to sacrifice 6 points off putbacks for all of the points they could be getting by running actual offensive sets... ignorant much?

RadiantShot
01-24-2010, 10:03 PM
Honestly, as much as Nelson pisses me off with his lack of effort on the defensive end, I still like him. He's Dwight's best pal on the team, the general of the floor, and an important part to the success of the team, whether you give the green light or not. Nelson may be a ball-hoggish point-guard, and a shoot-first point-guard, but he's done amazing things for this Magic team when we needed him to, and I don't like seeing him get hassled by everyone. On another note, Jameer was extremely clutch last night against Charlotte in OT, and he clearly made up for his bad defense on Felton last night in the closing seconds.

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 10:06 PM
Dwight loves the three ball. In theory, the three point shot should be a low percentage shot. This means there will be more chances at rebounds on the offensive end. Usually when you get an offensive rebound, you have your man boxed out, and have a chance at a very easy put back bucket.

If its gonna be as easy as that then so many teams should have used the same strategy. Esp with the Lakers having Pau and Bynum.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2010, 10:15 PM
Dwight has little offensive game and everyone thinks just cuz he's Dwight Howard, he must be a superstar on both ends. He's not he is only a defense player, and rebounder. But the best defensive player and rebounder.
He's a turnover machine to add.
He cant make any free throws.

you think it's a good idea for him to be the one getting the ball late in games?

Teams foul him intentionally, his shot attempts will be cut in half if not more. Every time he's open to take a layup/dunk he will be fouled, any move he makes will draw a foul.


I'm so sick of this "Dwight doesnt get any shot attemtps" B.S.
and Dwight's presence leaves wide open 3 pt shooters, that's why they take them. And this method got them to the finals last year.


knock of this Vince Carter as the scapegoat crap, I'm so sick of it.

RadiantShot
01-24-2010, 10:28 PM
Dwight has little offensive game and everyone thinks just cuz he's Dwight Howard, he must be a superstar on both ends. He's not he is only a defense player, and rebounder. But the best defensive player and rebounder.
He's a turnover machine to add.
He cant make any free throws.

you think it's a good idea for him to be the one getting the ball late in games?

Teams foul him intentionally, his shot attempts will be cut in half if not more. Every time he's open to take a layup/dunk he will be fouled, any move he makes will draw a foul.


I'm so sick of this "Dwight doesnt get any shot attemtps" B.S.
and Dwight's presence leaves wide open 3 pt shooters, that's why they take them. And this method got them to the finals last year.


knock of this Vince Carter as the scapegoat crap, I'm so sick of it.

Although Dwight's offensive game, and post moves aren't up to par with most centers like Brook Lopez, Andrew Bynum, etc. He's not as bad as you claim really..He's been improving in the post, and he's gotten the ball down low more. His offense is roughly inconsistent, but our team is deep enough that when he isn't doing well, other players can step up and make shots. Dwight was amazing in the game against the LA Lakers, and had 18 points in the first half. 2 dunks, 2 jumpers, got to the free throw line some, and had a couple jump-hooks. We can't hassle him much, his offensive game is getting better slowly but surely, and that's what we need right now. As long as he's showing progress, I'm really not concerned. I'm concerned if Vince isn't scoring, more-so than Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard isn't MEANT to be our offensive presence, but when he can score, it's a wonderful thing. Vince is MEANT to be our scoring presence, so that's why I put the blame on Vince if he doesn't get going on the offensive end. I would be mad at Dwight if he wasn't producing on the defensive end as well. And Dwight had a 11/12 free throw night against Sac-town the other night, so we'll just see where his free-throw situation goes.

Raph12
01-24-2010, 10:45 PM
Dwight has little offensive game and everyone thinks just cuz he's Dwight Howard, he must be a superstar on both ends. He's not he is only a defense player, and rebounder. But the best defensive player and rebounder.
He's a turnover machine to add.
He cant make any free throws.

you think it's a good idea for him to be the one getting the ball late in games?

Teams foul him intentionally, his shot attempts will be cut in half if not more. Every time he's open to take a layup/dunk he will be fouled, any move he makes will draw a foul.


I'm so sick of this "Dwight doesnt get any shot attemtps" B.S.
and Dwight's presence leaves wide open 3 pt shooters, that's why they take them. And this method got them to the finals last year.


knock of this Vince Carter as the scapegoat crap, I'm so sick of it.

Again, stop riding Carter's balls, they got to the Finals without Carter, taking less 3s, with Dwight taking more shots. Last season the ball went through Dwight a lot more, his offense may not be refined yet, but establishing him has paid dividends all season long. And if your arguement is that Dwight can't create for himself, then maybe we need to get a star SG who can create for him, instead of just chucking shots willy-nilly.

Btw he has been making his FTs recently, if he gets to the line early and often, he sinks them. 11-12 against the Kings (10 straight to start), 16-24 against the Pacers (6-11 to start), 4-6 against LA, 6-8 against Denver, 12-17 against Sacremento, etc...

The Magic are 20-5 when Dwight scores 17 or more and 9-10 when he scores 16 or less. Getting him involved in the offense is key to the Magic's success, everyone in the league, media and even Magic MGMT knows it, now it's upto SVG to go out and get it done on the court. Ignoring him and saying his offense isn't there yet won't help him develop his offensive skills, doing things in practise and then doing it on the real court are two very different things, and until he doesn't gain that experience in games, he won't get any better.

RadiantShot
01-24-2010, 10:51 PM
Again, stop riding Carter's balls, they got to the Finals without Carter, taking less 3s, with Dwight taking more shots. Last season the ball went through Dwight a lot more, his offense may not be refined yet, but establishing him has paid dividends all season long. And if your arguement is that Dwight can't create for himself, then maybe we need to get a star SG who can create for him, instead of just chucking shots willy-nilly.

Btw he has been making his FTs recently, if he gets to the line early and often, he sinks them. 11-12 against the Kings (10 straight to start), 16-24 against the Pacers (6-11 to start), 4-6 against LA, 6-8 against Denver, 12-17 against Sacremento, etc...

The Magic are 20-5 when Dwight scores 17 or more and 9-10 when he scores 16 or less. Getting him involved in the offense is key to the Magic's success, everyone in the league, media and even Magic MGMT knows it, now it's upto SVG to go out and get it done on the court. Ignoring him and saying his offense isn't there yet won't help him develop his offensive skills, doing things in practise and then doing it on the real court are two very different things, and until he doesn't gain that experience in games, he won't get any better.

:clap:
Haha at the 'willy-nilly' statement.

nipo10847
01-24-2010, 11:00 PM
I kinda feel magic is misusing the best center on the planet. Sure, it feels good when the 3's are goin in but let's be realistic. You have a dominant bigman, and you are not running ur ofense through him! Man, I really thought this year he was gonna avg something around 25 ppg...but he will never be able to do it as long as SVG reamains the coach. He is a douche.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2010, 11:07 PM
are u kidding? Are we taking that many more 3s than last year is Dwight getting that many less fgas?

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 11:07 PM
I kinda feel magic is misusing the best center on the planet. Sure, it feels good when the 3's are goin in but let's be realistic. You have a dominant bigman, and you are not running ur ofense through him! Man, I really thought this year he was gonna avg something around 25 ppg...but he will never be able to do it as long as SVG reamains the coach. He is a douche.

The best center. Exactly! When is Dwight gonna realize that??!

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 11:09 PM
are u kidding? Are we taking that many more 3s than last year is Dwight getting that many less fgas?

Magic attempted 39 threes. Dwight attempted just 11 shots and had 20 rebounds. Not sure how many were offensive from missed threes.

*Superman*
01-24-2010, 11:12 PM
Magic attempted 39 threes. Dwight attempted just 11 shots and had 20 rebounds. Not sure how many were offensive from missed threes.

He's talking about the year not the Cats game.

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 11:15 PM
He's talking about the year not the Cats game.

This is whats happening this year, why would I point out a single game if it wasnt? Charles Barkley even personally interviewed and asked Dwight Howard regarding this. See?

Wait,,, I see a Vince Carter sig there. Okay......... Dont worry, he'll take you to the championship. He is that GOOD....

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-24-2010, 11:16 PM
The Magic are confusing to me. On paper, I thought they were the best team in the east, and maybe the whole NBA. I still think they will be in the conference finals, Im not sure they will win now though.

*Superman*
01-24-2010, 11:24 PM
This is whats happening this year, why would I point out a single game if it wasnt? Charles Barkley even personally interviewed and asked Dwight Howard regarding this. See?

Wait,,, I see a Vince Carter sig there. Okay......... Dont worry, he'll take you to the championship. He is that GOOD....

1. He was asking about this years stats on how many 3s the Magic take per game, NOT just one game.

2. What does that statement have to do, besides show your hate?

SteveNash
01-24-2010, 11:25 PM
But its not enough. Plus, theyre attempting more threes this season.

The biggest problem with the Magic is expectations. They got a break with Boston being hurt and having a mismatch against the Cavs. 2 more 3PA a game isn't ruining them.

RadiantShot
01-24-2010, 11:26 PM
It starts with our effort, and ends with our effort. We've gone through a small slump, but it's no reason to pull the panic trigger yet. We're still a great team, but so far, we're having a hard time finding our niche, still.

Superman12 brought up an article about Otis, who was talking about Carter as a trade chip, not necessarily a vital team piece. He is probably going to be looked at this season, and we will determine whether we should keep him, or pull the trigger on a deal with another team, sending Vince Carter away.

Let's just relax please, we still have a good team. On paper, it looks great, but you've got to think about how the pieces fit together, and how they work as a system. Everyone has their own place on the team, whether it be a small place, or a big place. Everyone needs to make use of their talents for the success of the team, and if we take advantage of this, other teams in the league will need to watch out.

However, even Dwight said, 'It starts with me, and ends with me, and my effort on the floor,' which is true.

Raph12
01-24-2010, 11:29 PM
are u kidding? Are we taking that many more 3s than last year is Dwight getting that many less fgas?

Dwight is down about 3.1 FGA per game and 0.5 FTA per game, now that difference is smaller after a stretch of games recently 24, 32, 19, etc.. the team is taking about 2.4 more 3s per game and 2% lower from the arc, than they were last season. 3 FGs at 60% is 1.8 FGs Dwight would be making, so you'd add 3.6 points to Dwight's 17.2 and it's back upto his regular 20.8ppg. But since it's being wasted at the 3pt line, it's only being shot around 36%.

Now these numbers may not seem too significant in the bigger picture, but the idea is that Dwight's touches should increase each year with the improvements he makes to his game. His game has come along from last season's post-and-dunk/catch-and-dunk moves he had, but we wouldn't know because instead of him dominating, he is just another guys on the court.

Dwight should ideally be going for 15-20 FGA per game and 10-15 FTA per game (considering how much he's grabbed down low) as well, the offense should feed off him, not the other way around. He is the most dominant big man in the league, it's time his team starts treating him like it.

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 11:29 PM
1. He was asking about this years stats on how many 3s the Magic take per game, NOT just one game.

2. What does that statement have to do, besides show your hate?

1. I dont need to do that research. I observed it this season, Charles observed it, my friend who has Dwight in his Fantasy has observed it.

2. WTF hate? I said that "Dont worry, he'll take you to the championship. He is that GOOD." --- Wheres the hate here?

JJ_JKidd
01-24-2010, 11:31 PM
Dwight is down about 3.1 FGA per game and 0.5 FTA per game, now that difference is smaller after a stretch of games recently 24, 32, 19, etc.. the team is taking about 2.4 more 3s per game and 2% lower from the arc, than they were last season. 3 FGs at 60% is 1.8 FGs Dwight would be making, so you'd add 3.6 points to Dwight's 17.2 and it's back upto his regular 20.8ppg. But since it's being wasted at the 3pt line, it's only being shot around 36%.

Now these numbers may not seem too significant in the bigger picture, but the idea is that Dwight's touches should increase each year with the improvements he makes to his game. His game has come along from last season's post-and-dunk/catch-and-dunk moves he had, but we wouldn't know because instead of him dominating, he is just another guys on the court.

Dwight should ideally be going for 15-20 FGA per game and 10-15 FTA per game (considering how much he's grabbed down low) as well, the offense should feed off him, not the other way around. He is the most dominant big man in the league, it's time his team starts treating him like it.

There you go sir!

*Superman*
01-24-2010, 11:34 PM
1. I dont need to do that research. I observed it this season, Charles observed it, my friend who has Dwight in his Fantasy has observed it.

2. WTF hate? I said that "Dont worry, he'll take you to the championship. He is that GOOD." --- Wheres the hate here?

Hidden in the sarcasm.

ko8e24
01-25-2010, 12:27 AM
Jacking up threes is what got them to the Finals last year.

Enough for them to win the whole thing? :rolleyes:

I think not. And whatever offense Orlando had last yr, well, they just lost a valuable playmaker during the Summer in Hedo Turkoglu, and replaced him with a guy who rarely goes to the basket anymore and jacks up 20 footers and 3 pointers in Vince Carter.

ThuglifeJ
01-25-2010, 12:56 AM
wow the biased hate toward Vince Carter is sickening. You'll find it everywhere.

this thread was an obvious attempt to bring out that VC is some sort of downfall for the Orlando Magic and he should be the scapegoat.

It's getting old. And you said it wasnt an attempt to knock on Carter then eventually your true hater self came out.
***** getting old. So much hate on VC

Raph12
01-25-2010, 01:11 AM
wow the biased hate toward Vince Carter is sickening. You'll find it everywhere.

this thread was an obvious attempt to bring out that VC is some sort of downfall for the Orlando Magic and he should be the scapegoat.

It's getting old. And you said it wasnt an attempt to knock on Carter then eventually your true hater self came out.
***** getting old. So much hate on VC

I'm not hating VC, I'm hating on SVG because ultimately, it is his decision to make Carter our 1st option... VC's just following orders.

I'm just bringing you to the realization that Howard, regardless of how much talent is on the team, should be the #1 option on offense bar none. He should be taking 15-20 shots per game with his 10-15 FTs per game, he is the franchise player, he needs to start playing like it. And no, saying he lacks offensive skills isn't a good enough excuse, because working on it in game is the next step in his development. I don't care if they have to force feed him, like Barkley said, he should touch the ball at least 3 times on every 5 possessions.

dodie53
01-25-2010, 01:40 AM
wow.
39 attempts.
that's many.

JJ_JKidd
01-25-2010, 02:31 AM
wow.
39 attempts.
that's many.

20 is pretty much a lot to me. Much less 40.

ChiSox219
01-25-2010, 05:15 AM
I don't think there's a problem shooting 40 threes, especially when the Magic are good at making them. The 3pt shot is underrated and it's not like Dwight is great offensively, he can get the job done but he's not a first option yet.

Vince has had a really bad year but Turkoglu has been pretty bad as well. I think Vince will get it somewhat together and the Magic are still my favorite to win the Conference.

JDizzle
01-25-2010, 05:50 AM
if it works and they win who cares

SteveNash
01-25-2010, 07:24 PM
Enough for them to win the whole thing? :rolleyes:

I think not. And whatever offense Orlando had last yr, well, they just lost a valuable playmaker during the Summer in Hedo Turkoglu, and replaced him with a guy who rarely goes to the basket anymore and jacks up 20 footers and 3 pointers in Vince Carter.

They really weren't a good enough team that really belonged in the Finals as shown by LA's easy victory. I guess the comparison you're trying to get at is that LA wasn't in the same class as Boston getting wiped out by 40 and so they had to give Ariza more time and have Bynum healthy I guess.

I said it at the end of last season though. Orlando won't get back to the Finals, at least not with that core of Nelson/Rashard/Dwight. Hedo while being a big part of their offense wasn't really worth the money. It's just too bad they wasted it on Carter who's playing like complete garbage.

Raoul Duke
01-25-2010, 08:12 PM
I'm so sick of this "Dwight doesnt get any shot attemtps" B.S.
and Dwight's presence leaves wide open 3 pt shooters, that's why they take them. And this method got them to the finals last year.

That is some ridiculous logic. I don't care if Howard gets fouled a lot, and I don't care if he has no outside game. That's when the coach needs to say "yeah, that's tough, now score some goddamn points in the paint". He's gotta figure it out sometime, why not now while they have one of the best/deepest rosters in the NBA (at least on paper anyway)?

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 08:20 PM
1. I dont need to do that research. I observed it this season, Charles observed it, my friend who has Dwight in his Fantasy has observed it.

2. WTF hate? I said that "Dont worry, he'll take you to the championship. He is that GOOD." --- Wheres the hate here?

Your sarcasm doesn't impress me the least bit. It's just immature.

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 08:23 PM
if it works and they win who cares

I like this answer somewhat.
Simplicity seems to be overlooked when most of us make our posts.
This guys stating what he knows. I like it.

itsripcity32
01-25-2010, 08:24 PM
magic scrwed up with vc. too bad

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 08:27 PM
magic scrwed up with vc. too bad

Thank you for telling us what we didn't know. Seriously, we've had numerous topics on this, no need to tell us the obvious.:facepalm:

JJ_JKidd
01-25-2010, 08:59 PM
Your sarcasm doesn't impress me the least bit. It's just immature.

Oh man. Okay let me just re-phrase it since you dont want me praising one of your stars--- in three words--- Vince Carter sucks.

RadiantShot
01-25-2010, 09:33 PM
Oh man. Okay let me just re-phrase it since you dont want me praising one of your stars--- in three words--- Vince Carter sucks.

I'll phrase it with 3 more words.

Thanks we know.