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View Full Version : Could Curry beat out Evans n Jennings for R.O.Y



spreadeagle
01-19-2010, 03:18 AM
26 10 and 6 tonight for Curry.I have him on my fantasy team and hes been in the top 50 all year,I think he gets overshadowed by Ellis sometimes.Evans has also been great but with Martin back it might eat up his stats"not tonight lol".Jennings has struggled with his shot for a while.Thoughts

Chacarron
01-19-2010, 03:23 AM
So far Tyreke is running away with it. Unless his production drops significantly, I don't see anybody taking the ROY award from him. Nothing is secured yet, but if anybody has a chance at competing for that ROY award, it's Curry (who is also in my fantasy team :D).

DerekRE_3
01-19-2010, 03:42 AM
26 10 and 6 tonight for Curry.I have him on my fantasy team and hes been in the top 50 all year,I think he gets overshadowed by Ellis sometimes.Evans has also been great but with Martin back it might eat up his stats"not tonight lol".Jennings has struggled with his shot for a while.Thoughts

Well Tyreke went 13-20 fro 34 points 7 assists 4 boards 2 steals and 3 blocks against arguably the best defense in the NBA today. He basically took over the game and almost lead the Kings to a comeback after being down 20 in the 2nd half.

Raph12
01-19-2010, 03:54 AM
Not with Ellis as his running mate in the backcourt.

BigEric
01-19-2010, 03:56 AM
Not even.

spreadeagle
01-19-2010, 04:02 AM
Well Tyreke went 13-20 fro 34 points 7 assists 4 boards 2 steals and 3 blocks against arguably the best defense in the NBA today. He basically took over the game and almost lead the Kings to a comeback after being down 20 in the 2nd half.

Whats with Thompson? He gunna pick it back up soon

Chronz
01-19-2010, 04:05 AM
I checked it out from my phone, the recap of the game gave me a good laugh. 3 players had HUGE nights, youd think people would see the trend that there is abit of inflation (per game wise), sadly nobody pays attention to pace or defense.

DerekRE_3
01-19-2010, 04:10 AM
Whats with Thompson? He gunna pick it back up soon

Don't know, he's been off and tonight he was in foul trouble. He needs to get more mentally tough. When things go wrong for him: ie - he doesn't get a call or his shot doesn't fall, he crumbles. That can be expected with a rookie, but Thompson went to college for 4 years and is in his 2nd year now, he needs to grow up.

ldc62
01-19-2010, 04:11 AM
NO way. He played well today, but Reke is scoring way more.

LeBroom
01-19-2010, 02:52 PM
He could. I personally believe that Steph Curry could win the R.O.Y if he WANTED to. He's playing within the system, and he's doing his best to keep Monta Ellis happy. Unlike in Milwaukee and Sac-Town, Both Tyreke and Jennings always have the ball in their hands, and have been basically given the keys to run the team. Imagine if Stephen Curry started demanding the ball and basically playing like Monta (minus the "me-first" mentality)... That'd be sick. Just like in Davidson :> (Yes I am a Steph Curry Fan lol)

Silent
01-19-2010, 02:54 PM
Not a chance in hell

Niro
01-19-2010, 02:59 PM
He could. I personally believe that Steph Curry could win the R.O.Y if he WANTED to. He's playing within the system, and he's doing his best to keep Monta Ellis happy. Unlike in Milwaukee and Sac-Town, Both Tyreke and Jennings always have the ball in their hands, and have been basically given the keys to run the team. Imagine if Stephen Curry started demanding the ball and basically playing like Monta (minus the "me-first" mentality)... That'd be sick. Just like in Davidson :> (Yes I am a Steph Curry Fan lol)

this, if ellis would be hurt curry would have a way better chance..

curry is playing really good tho but if evans keeps playing like that he will win it even a warriors fan (like me) has to admit that.
curry is also playing good d (way better than at the beginning of the season)

DerekRE_3
01-19-2010, 03:01 PM
He could. I personally believe that Steph Curry could win the R.O.Y if he WANTED to. He's playing within the system, and he's doing his best to keep Monta Ellis happy. Unlike in Milwaukee and Sac-Town, Both Tyreke and Jennings always have the ball in their hands, and have been basically given the keys to run the team. Imagine if Stephen Curry started demanding the ball and basically playing like Monta (minus the "me-first" mentality)... That'd be sick. Just like in Davidson :> (Yes I am a Steph Curry Fan lol)

You make a good point. Both Evans and Jennings have more freedom and have the ball more. However, I'm not sure how efficient Curry would be if he had the ball that much. Despite Evans basically being the man as a rookie, he's still shooting a respectable 46% from the field. Jennings on the otherhand, is shooting only 38.6%. Curry has been shooting the ball well too, he's at 46%, but I wonder if that percentage would go down if he got more shots like Jennings and Evans do.

LeBroom
01-19-2010, 03:03 PM
Not a chance in hell

Lol. Too harsh... Anything can happen in the NBA. Say, Tyreke Evans tear his ACL and MCL on both Knees? Or he undergoes microfracture surgery? I'm not wishing for this to happen, but anything can happen. And even if Tyreke doesn't suffer an injury, there may come a time that he "comes back down to earth" etc. Haha, all I'm saying is, don't count Stephen Curry out :D

MU and UW Fan
01-19-2010, 03:12 PM
1. Tyreke Evans

2. Brandon Jennings






3. Stephen Curry

asandhu23
01-19-2010, 03:13 PM
this, if ellis would be hurt curry would have a way better chance..

curry is playing really good tho but if evans keeps playing like that he will win it even a warriors fan (like me) has to admit that.
curry is also playing good d (way better than at the beginning of the season)

Hey man, dont talk like that. We already have had too many injuries.

I am a Warriors fan and I don't think Curry is going to get it. Tyreke deserves it hands down.

DerekRE_3
01-19-2010, 03:14 PM
Lol. Too harsh... Anything can happen in the NBA. Say, Tyreke Evans tear his ACL and MCL on both Knees? Or he undergoes microfracture surgery? I'm not wishing for this to happen, but anything can happen. And even if Tyreke doesn't suffer an injury, there may come a time that he "comes back down to earth" etc. Haha, all I'm saying is, don't count Stephen Curry out :D

Noooooo!!!!

Fayzon10
01-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Tyreke by a mile

DaBUU
01-19-2010, 03:21 PM
Well Tyreke went 13-20 fro 34 points 7 assists 4 boards 2 steals and 3 blocks against arguably the best defense in the NBA today. He basically took over the game and almost lead the Kings to a comeback after being down 20 in the 2nd half.

this dude has to be hands down ROY imo. everyone agrees Paul and Dwill are the 2 best PG's in the game right now and DRose will be there soon (i know I'm bias), and theres a bunch of good young pg's all over, but everyone better watch out for this kid, he could become the best PG in the game without anyone noticing, hes a beast.

goldenstater
01-19-2010, 03:23 PM
1. Tyreke Evans

2. Brandon Jennings






3. Stephen Curry

your sorley mistaken if you think jennings is that far ahead of curry or that close to evens for that matter.

goldenstater
01-19-2010, 03:24 PM
this dude has to be hands down ROY imo. everyone agrees Paul and Dwill are the 2 best PG's in the game right now and DRose will be there soon (i know I'm bias), and theres a bunch of good young pg's all over, but everyone better watch out for this kid, he could become the best PG in the game without anyone noticing, hes a beast.

agreed.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 03:24 PM
doesn't half the GS roster average 20 ppg? haha.
They play at a super high pace, their stats are all inflated.
Evans is a lock peeps. Unless he breaks his leg

DaBUU
01-19-2010, 03:25 PM
your sorley mistaken if you think jennings is that far ahead of curry or that close to evens for that matter.

agreed, Jennings is still living off that 55 pnt game, hasnt done much since if you look at his numbers. Steph Curry is right there, Tyreke still hands down.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 03:27 PM
Jennings has played himself out of it for the time being as well. Since his torrid start, he has been just above average for a PG. Never saw that coming (sarcasm ensues)

Chicagofaithful
01-19-2010, 03:30 PM
as well as jennings and curry play theres just no way that a rookie who is one of three players in the nba who is averaging 20-5-5. The others being LBJ and Joe Johnson.

jim51990
01-19-2010, 03:31 PM
unless evans falls off he is so far above anyone else
besides the 55 point game i havnt really been impressed with jennings
and curry isnt even close

LeBroom
01-19-2010, 03:32 PM
doesn't half the GS roster average 20 ppg? haha.
They play at a super high pace, their stats are all inflated.
Evans is a lock peeps. Unless he breaks his leg

Obviously, you don't know a thing about the Warriors.

First off, they are playing with an 8 man Roster. 3 of them (their bench) are CALL-UPS FROM THE D-LEAGUE. MORE THAN HALF of their original players are down with injuries. All the players are obviously pressed to play more minutes, (hence Monta Ellis is averaging like 45 mins/game). They also slowed down the pace A BIT because they don't want their 5 NBA Players running out of gas in the tank.

So there. ^^ And yes, Evans is obviously the front-runner. But like I said, it's the NBA and anything can happen. :cool:

Pierzynski4Prez
01-19-2010, 03:46 PM
nobody is beating out Evans

GSRaider
01-19-2010, 03:47 PM
tyreke will win ROY....

but curry has been playing really good... currys avg. 17 pts 4 asts 4 rebs 2 stls per game this month... and i dont see him slowing down anytime soon...

tredigs
01-19-2010, 03:47 PM
doesn't half the GS roster average 20 ppg? haha.
They play at a super high pace, their stats are all inflated.
Evans is a lock peeps. Unless he breaks his leg

Warriors average the 3rd most PPG, Sacramento is right there at 6th most PPG. There's no significant inflation there.

Also, I love how many "locks" people dish out before the NBA even hits the all star break. A month ago, Jennings was "A LOCK!" to be ROY, now Evans is the lock. I'll tell you that the two are both playing at a real high level right now, and have both continued to get better as the season goes on. Evans has the 20 5 5 which is just sick for a rookie and would ultimately give him the award IF he can keep up this pace with Kev. Martin back in full form. So we'll know more about that in a couple weeks.

But that said, (for what it's worth) from a purely fantasy basketball perspective, the highest rated rookie and the one you'd most want on your team is Steph Curry. He slides in at 45th overall, just ahead of Ray Allen, Joakim Noah and ... Tryeke Evans. Over the past 30 days he's at 28th overall, just ahead of Tim Duncan. Nothing to make a decision over but definitely worth noting.

Evolution23
01-19-2010, 04:10 PM
26 10 and 6 tonight for Curry.I have him on my fantasy team and hes been in the top 50 all year,I think he gets overshadowed by Ellis sometimes.Evans has also been great but with Martin back it might eat up his stats"not tonight lol".Jennings has struggled with his shot for a while.Thoughts

What has Jennings done besides the 55 point game to be considered ROY? I think the real question is can Curry beat out Evans for ROY, and the answer is probably not.

Kdirt
01-19-2010, 04:21 PM
Tyreke wins it barring injury. If Monta wasnt on the Warriors then SCurry would be putting up Jennings numbers. They are similar in talent, but Tyreke Evans is a total stud.

loufor2
01-19-2010, 04:29 PM
I would have to say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

MiamiHeat
01-19-2010, 04:34 PM
I think Tyreke Evans got it on lock.

DaBUU
01-19-2010, 04:40 PM
Tyreke wins it barring injury. If Monta wasnt on the Warriors then SCurry would be putting up Jennings numbers. They are similar in talent, but Tyreke Evans is a total stud.

other than both being talented, their games arent similar at all.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 04:44 PM
Obviously, you don't know a thing about the Warriors.

First off, they are playing with an 8 man Roster. 3 of them (their bench) are CALL-UPS FROM THE D-LEAGUE. MORE THAN HALF of their original players are down with injuries. All the players are obviously pressed to play more minutes, (hence Monta Ellis is averaging like 45 mins/game). They also slowed down the pace A BIT because they don't want their 5 NBA Players running out of gas in the tank.

So there. ^^ And yes, Evans is obviously the front-runner. But like I said, it's the NBA and anything can happen. :cool:

um, I know plenty about them, I was making a joke. They play Ellis 48 mpg, and he shoots 30 times. My point is they play at a high pace, one of the highest, year in and year out recently, so looking at their bottom line stats is not the same as looking at the stats of a slow paced team. Stats per posession are at the very least what should be looked at.
And no, Curry is not overtaking Evans. We are too far along. Sorry. There is a big gap. The Warriors are again horrible, no matter the reason. Evans has the Kings being a much improved team. With the stats to back it up.
Game over for ROY at this point. It will take a miracle for anyone to knock Evans out

CityofTreez
01-19-2010, 04:46 PM
Stephen Currys best performance happened to be on Tyreke Evans best night in the season!

1st meeting between the two, Thank Heavens for Tyreke Evans just baptized Stephen Curry. Monta got revenge on us in Oracle, but there is no way!

Tyreke Evans
Omri Casspi
Brandon jennings
John BrockMAN :D
Stephen Curry

sf-fanatic
01-19-2010, 04:50 PM
um, I know plenty about them, I was making a joke. They play Ellis 48 mpg, and he shoots 30 times. My point is they play at a high pace, one of the highest, year in and year out recently, so looking at their bottom line stats is not the same as looking at the stats of a slow paced team. Stats per posession are at the very least what should be looked at.
And no, Curry is not overtaking Evans. We are too far along. Sorry. There is a big gap. The Warriors are again horrible, no matter the reason. Evans has the Kings being a much improved team. With the stats to back it up.
Game over for ROY at this point. It will take a miracle for anyone to knock Evans out

Sorry, but the game is not that complicated. It's a simple game of putting the basket in the hoop. It doesn't matter how you play; what system or tempo, but stats monta ellis and steph curry is the same as stats put up from any other player. If you guys keep bringing up, the warriors pace allows for more points, then does the counter argument the warriors are allowed to allow more points because the opposing team gets more possessions also work? I never see that argument being brought up here.

asandhu23
01-19-2010, 04:51 PM
Stephen Currys best performance happened to be on Tyreke Evans best night in the season!

1st meeting between the two, Thank Heavens for Tyreke Evans just baptized Stephen Curry. Monta got revenge on us in Oracle, but there is no way!

Tyreke Evans
Omri Casspi
Brandon jennings
John BrockMAN :D
Stephen Curry

:facepalm:

mikantsass
01-19-2010, 04:52 PM
Unless Tyreke gets hurt, its his award to lose.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 04:55 PM
Warriors average the 3rd most PPG, Sacramento is right there at 6th most PPG. There's no significant inflation there.

Also, I love how many "locks" people dish out before the NBA even hits the all star break. A month ago, Jennings was "A LOCK!" to be ROY, now Evans is the lock. I'll tell you that the two are both playing at a real high level right now, and have both continued to get better as the season goes on. Evans has the 20 5 5 which is just sick for a rookie and would ultimately give him the award IF he can keep up this pace with Kev. Martin back in full form. So we'll know more about that in a couple weeks.

But that said, (for what it's worth) from a purely fantasy basketball perspective, the highest rated rookie and the one you'd most want on your team is Steph Curry. He slides in at 45th overall, just ahead of Ray Allen, Joakim Noah and ... Tryeke Evans. Over the past 30 days he's at 28th overall, just ahead of Tim Duncan. Nothing to make a decision over but definitely worth noting.


fantasy is stupid. Its like the NBA.com efficiency rankings. They are terrible.


Evans PER is 18.68
Jennings PER is 15.83
Currys PER is 13.38

The NBA league average is 15. Curry, at this point, is not even an average NBA player when it comes to efficiency. While PER isn't entirely perfect, it adjusts for pace. It is a far better measuring stick than adding their positives, and subtracting their negatives in a single long formula like fantasy or NBA.com rankings does.
Basically, Curry has some nice games here and there. But he had a terrible Ocotber, and a below average November. Too much catchup when talking about Evans, who has been strong and consistent right out of the gate.
I will add that Curry has played better as of late, possibly due to him shooting better and getting consistent minutes.

Evans is clear runaway at this point. That is easy to predict

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 04:58 PM
Sorry, but the game is not that complicated. It's a simple game of putting the basket in the hoop. It doesn't matter how you play; what system or tempo, but stats monta ellis and steph curry is the same as stats put up from any other player. If you guys keep bringing up, the warriors pace allows for more points, then does the counter argument the warriors are allowed to allow more points because the opposing team gets more possessions also work? I never see that argument being brought up here.

then you don't pay attention. Pace MUST be addressed when comparing stats, or heck, even evaluating stats. When a team shoots 20 more times a game than another team, the players on the faster pace team will have more points, rebounds, assists, etc. And they will give up more points, which doesn't necessarily hurt their defensive efficiency. What does hurt it is, a fast paced team will give up more transition points, ie, points in the paint, uncontested shots, etc, so fast pace teams tend to not get into the top 5-10 as far as defensive efficiency.
And claiming that its as easy as putting the ball in the hole is what a fan of Iverson would say. Cmon now bro. It is that detailed when really digging into a player.

Chronz
01-19-2010, 05:01 PM
Sorry, but the game is not that complicated. It's a simple game of putting the basket in the hoop. It doesn't matter how you play; what system or tempo, but stats monta ellis and steph curry is the same as stats put up from any other player.

LOL sorry? That was your comback. Come on guy your acting the way I said you were last time, I dont want to get banned but you know what Im saying.

If your sorry argument is such great foundation then you better call up all those GM's and tell them to stop wasting their money.

The truth is, it matters

If you guys keep bringing up, the warriors pace allows for more points, then does the counter argument the warriors are allowed to allow more points because the opposing team gets more possessions also work? I never see that argument being brought up here.
Yes, its never brought up because people dont talk APBR, and the ones that do dont feel the need to point out common sense.

Sadly even when adjust their defensive #'s, they are still a horrible defensive team.

sf-fanatic
01-19-2010, 05:02 PM
I checked it out from my phone, the recap of the game gave me a good laugh. 3 players had HUGE nights, youd think people would see the trend that there is abit of inflation (per game wise), sadly nobody pays attention to pace or defense.

Really?...**** there was absolutely no defense played in that game the warriors ONLY held them to under 100 points and held Chicago to ONLY 37% shooting. And i guess you couldnt recognize most of the names of the warriors on the phone because the warriors were down to Curry, Ellis, Maggette, George, and Biedrins with the bench that consists of 3 d-leaguers Cartier Martin, Anthony Tolliver, and Chris Hunter (Who?). Seriously, who do you want taking the shots? That explains why the core 3 players had huge games. And i guess the phone didnt show you, but the warriors slowed the pace down in this game because Biedrins, Maggette, Curry, and Ellis each had to play near or over 40 minutes. You were probably laughing because you didnt know who Martin, Tolliver, and Hunter are because i dont see what you are laughing at.

sf-fanatic
01-19-2010, 05:04 PM
[QUOTE=Chronz;12032439]LOL sorry? That was your comback. Come on guy your acting the way I said you were last time, I dont want to get banned but you know what Im saying.

I don't care what you think of me, you've been called out more times on this forum than i have. We think differently of the game of basketball. This is a forum, not a persuasive essay where we all dont need to agree on the same things.

thedfactor
01-19-2010, 05:06 PM
1. Tyreke Evans

2. Brandon Jennings


3. Stephen CurryLike this. Reke and BJ are just better. Imagine Jennings on the Warriors...

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 05:08 PM
Really?...**** there was absolutely no defense played in that game the warriors ONLY held them to under 100 points and held Chicago to ONLY 37% shooting. And i guess you couldnt recognize most of the names of the warriors on the phone because the warriors were down to Curry, Ellis, Maggette, George, and Biedrins with the bench that consists of 3 d-leaguers Cartier Martin, Anthony Tolliver, and Chris Hunter (Who?). Seriously, who do you want taking the shots? That explains why the core 3 players had huge games. And i guess the phone didnt show you, but the warriors slowed the pace down in this game because Biedrins, Maggette, Curry, and Ellis each had to play near or over 40 minutes. You were probably laughing because you didnt know who Martin, Tolliver, and Hunter are because i dont see what you are laughing at.

lets look at a top defensive team from yesterday. Boston forced Dallas to get off only 68 shot attempts, and they shot 24 free throws as well. The Warriors, and their slow pace, "held" Chicago to 96 shot attempts, and 33 free throw attempts. Are you beginning to grasp it yet? Just because Chicago decided to have a pathetic shooting night doesn't mean the Warriors are suddenly a defensive team by any nature

DerekRE_3
01-19-2010, 05:08 PM
Like this. Reke and BJ are just better. Imagine Jennings on the Warriors...

Eh I dunno how Monta and Jennings would mix. And I don't even want to think about Tyreke Evans on the Warriors. Nelly would have him playing power forward.

sep11ie
01-19-2010, 05:10 PM
Well if T-Mac is getting voted into the All Star game, then I think Blake Griffin will be R.O.Y. this year.

Chronz
01-19-2010, 05:12 PM
then you don't pay attention. Pace MUST be addressed when comparing stats, or heck, even evaluating stats. When a team shoots 20 more times a game than another team, the players on the faster pace team will have more points, rebounds, assists, etc. And they will give up more points, which doesn't necessarily hurt their defensive efficiency. What does hurt it is, a fast paced team will give up more transition points, ie, points in the paint, uncontested shots, etc, so fast pace teams tend to not get into the top 5-10 as far as defensive efficiency.
And claiming that its as easy as putting the ball in the hole is what a fan of Iverson would say. Cmon now bro. It is that detailed when really digging into a player.
The Jazz of the 80's would like a word with you.

Stockton in his prime = Run + Eaton + Concentrated effort not to chase offensive rebounds and get back = Fastest team in the league with the best Defense in the league.

Still that probably is a rare combination, Pace does effect defensive efficiency in a negative way, just dont know how profound it is or how much of that was a result of talent/rebounding philosophies. The fact that most defensive teams tend to be slower paced does help. But alot of those slower teams dont crash the offensive glass.

Personally I think rebounding plays a bigger role than pace but it would interesting to look up.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 05:13 PM
[QUOTE=Chronz;12032439]LOL sorry? That was your comback. Come on guy your acting the way I said you were last time, I dont want to get banned but you know what Im saying.

I don't care what you think of me, you've been called out more times on this forum than i have. We think differently of the game of basketball. This is a forum, not a persuasive essay where we all dont need to agree on the same things.

those of us that post with rational and pure data tend to get "called out" by homers and fans that look at bottom line ESPN per game stats, and don't actually understand how to look at numbers or the game in a subjective way. Welcome to the club.
You have to look at pace dude. A guy averaging 16/8 on a bottom 5 paced team is essentially a 20-10 player if you throw him on GS is the point.

sf-fanatic
01-19-2010, 05:13 PM
lets look at a top defensive team from yesterday. Boston forced Dallas to get off only 68 shot attempts, and they shot 24 free throws as well. The Warriors, and their slow pace, "held" Chicago to 96 shot attempts, and 33 free throw attempts. Are you beginning to grasp it yet? Just because Chicago decided to have a pathetic shooting night doesn't mean the Warriors are suddenly a defensive team by any nature

Yeah, again no credit to the warriors...What if it was the warriors DEFENSE that forces them into those bad shots? Did you see the game? The bulls were taking mostly perimeter jump shots. Warriors defense rarely shows up but it did this one night. I didnt say the warriors are a great defensive team, i said yesterday that they played great defense. But i guess when the warriors consistently hang 120s on opponents, its not great warrior offense, but bad defense from the other team...

sf-fanatic
01-19-2010, 05:14 PM
[QUOTE=sf-fanatic;12032479]

those of us that post with rational and pure data tend to get "called out" by homers and fans that look at bottom line ESPN per game stats, and don't actually understand how to look at numbers or the game in a subjective way. Welcome to the club.
You have to look at pace dude. A guy averaging 16/8 on a bottom 5 paced team is essentially a 20-10 player if you throw him on GS is the point.

Disagree. Joe Johnson with Phx where he also played run-n-gun with D'Antoni to Joe Johnson with Atl. Better team and the numbers went up.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 05:15 PM
The Jazz of the 80's would like a word with you.

Stockton in his prime = Run + Eaton + Concentrated effort not to chase offensive rebounds and get back = Fastest team in the league with the best Defense in the league.

Still that probably is a rare combination, Pace does effect defensive efficiency in a negative way, just dont know how profound it is. The fact that most defensive teams tend to be slower paced does help.

well, it helps to have a top 2 PG of all time leading the break, with shooters and one of the top finishers in teh NBA. And Eaton never came down the floor haha. he was always back on the break.
The reason it effects it is like I said, the other team gets a lot of points in transition, ie, 5-4, etc. and uncontested jumpers, due to the defense scrambling back into position. Slow teams are set defensivley, you get a lot less easy looks.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 05:17 PM
Yeah, again no credit to the warriors...What if it was the warriors DEFENSE that forces them into those bad shots? Did you see the game? The bulls were taking mostly perimeter jump shots. Warriors defense rarely shows up but it did this one night. I didnt say the warriors are a great defensive team, i said yesterday that they played great defense. But i guess when the warriors consistently hang 120s on opponents, its not great warrior offense, but bad defense from the other team...

Chcago is in the bottom of the league across the board when speaking of shooting. I am not saying the Warriors didn't have an above average defensive game, but I am not going to credit them with holding the 2nd worst points per shot team in the league to 97 points.
I watched about 3 minutes of it actually. Thank god you traded Stephen, now I can watch them haha

Chronz
01-19-2010, 05:18 PM
I don't care what you think of me, you've been called out more times on this forum than i have. We think differently of the game of basketball. This is a forum, not a persuasive essay where we all dont need to agree on the same things.
Totally lost on what your saying. Yes this is a forum, and people will call you out on the lack of information. I dont see why you think me wanting FACTS means you have to write an essay but anything better than sorry would suffice.

We do think differently, but Im trying to help you understand the way GM's/Owners/Coaches think. You can either think Im insulting you, or continue asking questions.

We should all agree, posts that provide little in the way of objectivity are a waste.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 05:19 PM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;12032572]

Disagree. Joe Johnson with Phx where he also played run-n-gun with D'Antoni to Joe Johnson with Atl. Better team and the numbers went up.

um, he went from option 3 to option 1 dude. C'mon. Your arguments are getting killed. Come up with something real or move on brother

Raidaz4Life
01-19-2010, 05:20 PM
Reke is far and above everyone else... the guy is an absolute stud

Chronz
01-19-2010, 05:22 PM
Really?...**** there was absolutely no defense played in that game the warriors ONLY held them to under 100 points and held Chicago to ONLY 37% shooting. And i guess you couldnt recognize most of the names of the warriors on the phone because the warriors were down to Curry, Ellis, Maggette, George, and Biedrins with the bench that consists of 3 d-leaguers Cartier Martin, Anthony Tolliver, and Chris Hunter (Who?). Seriously, who do you want taking the shots? That explains why the core 3 players had huge games. And i guess the phone didnt show you, but the warriors slowed the pace down in this game because Biedrins, Maggette, Curry, and Ellis each had to play near or over 40 minutes. You were probably laughing because you didnt know who Martin, Tolliver, and Hunter are because i dont see what you are laughing at.

Hey for all I know it couldve been a defensive slugout, I was just laughing because I know the trends.

Chronz
01-19-2010, 05:27 PM
well, it helps to have a top 2 PG of all time leading the break, with shooters and one of the top finishers in teh NBA. And Eaton never came down the floor haha. he was always back on the break.
The reason it effects it is like I said, the other team gets a lot of points in transition, ie, 5-4, etc. and uncontested jumpers, due to the defense scrambling back into position. Slow teams are set defensivley, you get a lot less easy looks.
FYI this was before Malone but stayed up there with him as well

But the Eaton comment is basically the point Im trying to make, is it really so hard to be a run and gun team that gets back on D. Likewise what about a slow plodding team that gives up alot of transition buckets because they chase to many offensive rebounds.

In the end I think its mostly a result of talent, but pace and rebounding definitely play a part. This is how I see it, even the worst of transition teams are going to play the majority of their defensive possessions in a halfcourt setting right. So their halfcourt defense will always matter more than transition defense.

sf-fanatic
01-19-2010, 05:29 PM
[QUOTE=sf-fanatic;12032588]

um, he went from option 3 to option 1 dude. C'mon. Your arguments are getting killed. Come up with something real or move on brother

Actually, on that team Nash was the number 3 scoring option, however Nash was more important to that team if that is what you are referring too. Joe Johnson was the number one option in 2003-2004 because Amare was hurt for almost half of that year.

sf-fanatic
01-19-2010, 05:31 PM
Hey for all I know it couldve been a defensive slugout, I was just laughing because I know the trends.

yeah i know what you mean the warriors usually dont play defense but i just found it odd that you point out this one game and call them out for bad defense when it might have been one of their top defensive performances of the season

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 05:33 PM
FYI this was before Malone but stayed up there with him as well

But the Eaton comment is basically the point Im trying to make, is it really so hard to be a run and gun team that gets back on D. Likewise what about a slow plodding team that gives up alot of transition buckets because they chase to many offensive rebounds.

In the end I think its mostly a result of talent, but pace and rebounding definitely play a part. This is how I see it, even the worst of transition teams are going to play the majority of their defensive possessions in a halfcourt setting right. So their halfcourt defense will always matter more than transition defense.

are you talking about the Griffith/Dantley era? Sorry, Stockton and Malone were together in 1985, thought that is what you were referring to

king4day
01-19-2010, 05:33 PM
Tyreke is getting it. Even Jennings who appeared to be running neck and neck with him, doesn't seem to have a shot anymore.

sf-fanatic
01-19-2010, 05:34 PM
lets look at a top defensive team from yesterday. Boston forced Dallas to get off only 68 shot attempts, and they shot 24 free throws as well. The Warriors, and their slow pace, "held" Chicago to 96 shot attempts, and 33 free throw attempts. Are you beginning to grasp it yet? Just because Chicago decided to have a pathetic shooting night doesn't mean the Warriors are suddenly a defensive team by any nature

Shot attempts wasnt necessarily a factor in this one because the Bulls were trying to match the warrior tempo and could not do so because they were turning the ball over in the open court and other than Rose, no one could hit transition baskets. And the bulls shot a lot of early in the shot clock jumpers from the perimeter. I know the point you are trying to say, but it shouldnt be weighed that heavily because of these factors.

drama1386
01-19-2010, 05:38 PM
tyreke will win it. he's an absolute stud!

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 05:39 PM
[QUOTE=Hawkeye15;12032651]

Actually, on that team Nash was the number 3 scoring option, however Nash was more important to that team if that is what you are referring too. Joe Johnson was the number one option in 2003-2004 because Amare was hurt for almost half of that year.

actually Marion attempted a lot more shots. Amare missed 27 games, and Marbury 50ish, and both attempted the same or more. Also, was 22, and was in his 2nd year of playing a lot of minutes, and experienced a jump that is natural. he also experienced a jump in usage and shot attempts, when he moved to the scoring starved Hawks, whose best player the previous year was Harrington for crying out loud.
Basically, he is a poor example. He was not a #1 option the majority of the 03-04' season in Phx, and became the #1 option right away in Atlanta, hence why he went there

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 05:49 PM
Shot attempts wasnt necessarily a factor in this one because the Bulls were trying to match the warrior tempo and could not do so because they were turning the ball over in the open court and other than Rose, no one could hit transition baskets. And the bulls shot a lot of early in the shot clock jumpers from the perimeter. I know the point you are trying to say, but it shouldnt be weighed that heavily because of these factors.

typically, fast paced teams try and lure other teams into their style, relying on their shooters (of which GS has) and scoring ability (of which GS has), to win. Chicago is a perfect team to do this to. They have no shooters outside Salmons, their big's are not scoring threats in the open court outside Tyrus Thomas, and Salmons and Rose kept them in the game, or they would have been crushed. Chicago doesn't have a single player who shoots well. Deng will from time to time, but even their bigs can't crack 49%, which is horrible. They rebound well, which keeps them in games, but as you saw, they were beat on the boards by GS, couple that with another bad shooting night, they lost

showtym24
01-19-2010, 06:09 PM
No its tyreke by a mile IMO

td0tsfinest
01-19-2010, 06:20 PM
Tyreke Evan's numbers mimic those of Lebron anaward to lose. d Melo's Rookie Campaign.

It's his award to lose.

CityofTreez
01-19-2010, 06:28 PM
:facepalm:

The Bear Jew is coming for You

he's had his share of 20+ games this season

willsayanything
01-19-2010, 07:01 PM
Curry won't win ROY, but I trade him for nobody.

CityofTreez
01-19-2010, 07:29 PM
Curry won't win ROY, but I trade him for nobody.

You literally epitomize your user name! congrats

Verbal Christ
01-19-2010, 07:45 PM
to say evans has it by a 'mile' is a bit of a stretch, i just saw jennings act a fool the other day and i must say hes a pretty damn good rookie, and hasnt he already dropped like a 60 point game this year? PLUS he's actually got some name recognition on the team that limits his touches, doesnt evans shoot at will? not to discredit tyreke the dude is a monster as well, but i think its actually much closer than most people think.

dev0
01-19-2010, 07:49 PM
if they miss the rest of the season then of course...

yankee$fan213
01-19-2010, 07:59 PM
tyreeke

DerekRE_3
01-19-2010, 08:06 PM
to say evans has it by a 'mile' is a bit of a stretch, i just saw jennings act a fool the other day and i must say hes a pretty damn good rookie, and hasnt he already dropped like a 60 point game this year? PLUS he's actually got some name recognition on the team that limits his touches, doesnt evans shoot at will? not to discredit tyreke the dude is a monster as well, but i think its actually much closer than most people think.

Tyreke shoots 16.7 shots in 37 mpg, which really isn't that much. Jennings shoots 16.8 times a game in 34 mpg. So Jennings shoots more shots in less minutes. Jennings also shoots only 39% from the field, which is pretty bad, and Evans shoots 46%.

CowboysKB24
01-19-2010, 08:08 PM
It'll be Evans IMO. Warriors made a great choice by picking up Curry because he fits there team well.

mcgswfan
01-19-2010, 09:14 PM
Warriors fan here, and I must say that even though most of us believe that Tyreke is the hands down ROY winner, myself included, I will say this:

At this point in time, I believe the race for ROY is only between Curry and Evans with Evans holding a large lead over Curry, for now. Jennings no longer gets consideration because he has basically done nothing since Christmas, maybe he hit "the wall" or something but he is barely putting up 14 points a game since December and doesn't do much of anything else.

However, by season's end, as long as nothing drastic happens to either player (missing extensive time for whatever reason) I think Evans barely edges out Curry for ROY honors. The reason I say this is because of a few things:

1.) The return of Kevin Martin. When he comes back, if he stays healthy, because he dominates the ball so much for the Kings, he will create an Ellis' Effect on Evans, which will indirectly force Evan's production to drop off, whether they want it to or not. How much depends on how well he plays, but if it's similar to years past, it could be quite a bit. Evans will very likely NOT average 20, 5 and 5 by the end of the season.

2.) Ellis and Curry have been playing together from the outset of the season, they've had extensive time to feel each other out and get an idea of the "in game' habits of the other person. Now, 2-3 months later, they are really clicking and have quietly become one of the most productive back-court tandems in the entire league. Also, Curry looks like he's starting to find his groove with his jumper, and with that comes a more steady increase in his numbers, as his confidence increases his contributions will as well. Curry could continue to improve while Evans could idle or possibly get worse, which in turn could mean that they have similar stats by the time the season ends.

3.) As Curry and Ellis have had a lot of playing time with each other, Martin and Evans have not. They haven't played together much, if at all, during this season and it will take some time for the two of them to get familiar with each other. That will likely take a month or two which also indirectly could affect Tyreke's production. During this "familiarity period", while Evans and Martin get to know each other, Ellis and Curry could continue to put up solid numbers which could assist in making a stronger argument for Curry to get ROY consideration and thus decrease the gap by which Evan's leads.

DerekRE_3
01-19-2010, 09:21 PM
Warriors fan here, and I must say that even though most of us believe that Tyreke is the hands down ROY winner, myself included, I will say this:

At this point in time, I believe the race for ROY is only between Curry and Evans, and Evans has a large lead over Curry for now. Jennings no longer gets consideration because he has basically done nothing since Christmas, maybe he hit "the wall" or something but he is barely putting up 14 points a game since December and doesn't do much of anything else.

However, by season's end, as long as nothing drastic happens to either player (missing extensive time for whatever reason) I think Evans barely edges out Curry for ROY honors. The reason I say this is because of a few things:

1.) The return of Kevin Martin. When he comes back, if he stays healthy, because he dominates the ball so much for the Kings, he will create an Ellis' Effect on Evans, which will indirectly force Evan's production to drop off, how much depends on how he plays but if its similar to years past, it could be quite a bit. Evans will very likely not average 20, 5 and 5 by the end of the season (as long as there are no health issues with Martin).

2.) Since Ellis and Curry have been playing together from the outset of the season, they've had extensive time to feel each other out and get an idea of the "in game' habits of the other person. Now, 2-3 months later, they are really clicking and have quietly become one of the most productive back-court tandems in the entire league. Also, Curry looks like he's starting to find his rhythm a bit, with his jumper, and with that comes a more steady increase in his numbers, as his confidence increases his contributions will as well. Curry could continue to improve while Evans could idle or possibly get worse, which in turn could mean that they have similar stats by the time the season ends.

3.) Martin and Evans have not played together much, if at all, during this season and it will take time for the two of them to get comfortable with each other. That will likely take at least a month or two. During this period of time, while Evans and Martin get to know each other, Ellis and Curry could continue to put up solid numbers which could make a stronger argument for Curry to get ROY considerations.

Martin is actually more of a Rip Hamilton type. He's best coming off of screens and moving without the ball. He's not a primary ball handler type at all.

sacgiants1213
01-19-2010, 09:26 PM
This award is Tyreke's to lose. Even if the Kings are stuck on 15 wins for the rest of the year, he'll win it. His numbers don't lie.

vash9
01-19-2010, 09:26 PM
Tyreke Evans. R.O.Y.

period.

montazingmvp
01-19-2010, 11:10 PM
doesn't half the GS roster average 20 ppg? haha.
They play at a super high pace, their stats are all inflated.
Evans is a lock peeps. Unless he breaks his leg

sacramento plays at only a slightly slower pace...and besides that, if you adjust for pace, it hardly makes any difference in the statistics. the warriors still have a very efficient offense. with one of the highest points per shot for a team. curry is certainly not playing as well as tyreke, but i think its fair to say that he is second in the roy race right now.

jennings is just too inefficient as a scorer, and too weak as a defender. which curry has improved on a lot...

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 11:37 PM
sacramento plays at only a slightly slower pace...and besides that, if you adjust for pace, it hardly makes any difference in the statistics. the warriors still have a very efficient offense. with one of the highest points per shot for a team. curry is certainly not playing as well as tyreke, but i think its fair to say that he is second in the roy race right now.

jennings is just too inefficient as a scorer, and too weak as a defender. which curry has improved on a lot...

how is Curry 2nd in the ROY race?? And Evans plays at a slower pace, yet has far better numbers than any rookie, and its not even close. Right now, its

Evans
Jennings
Flynn
Casspi
Curry

At least to me it is.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2010, 11:39 PM
Curry could continue to slide up, but I just find it nearly impossible for him to pass Evans. The other 4 I listed are a bit closer. Curry has the PER of a below average NBA player. He has gotten better, but his horrible October, and below average November are not going to help his case

arkanian215
01-19-2010, 11:41 PM
Don't know, he's been off and tonight he was in foul trouble. He needs to get more mentally tough. When things go wrong for him: ie - he doesn't get a call or his shot doesn't fall, he crumbles. That can be expected with a rookie, but Thompson went to college for 4 years and is in his 2nd year now, he needs to grow up.

:pity: JT back to his hacking ways. He's better than that. This kid could be a superstar if he didn't get in foul trouble.

DerekRE_3
01-20-2010, 12:03 AM
:pity: JT back to his hacking ways. He's better than that. This kid could be a superstar if he didn't get in foul trouble.

Well it's not always his fault. Yes, he needs to be smarter with fouls, but he gets sooo many bs calls called against him that it gets pretty ridiculous. Refs seem to hate him.

TheWatcher34
01-20-2010, 12:29 AM
So far Tyreke is running away with it. Unless his production drops significantly, I don't see anybody taking the ROY award from him. Nothing is secured yet, but if anybody has a chance at competing for that ROY award, it's Curry (who is also in my fantasy team :D).

i am so happy for you. seems like u are coming closer to what really matters in life.

Omar Little
01-20-2010, 12:32 AM
how is Curry 2nd in the ROY race?? And Evans plays at a slower pace, yet has far better numbers than any rookie, and its not even close. Right now, its

Evans
Jennings
Flynn
Casspi
Curry

At least to me it is.

I was wondering the same thing. I think Flynn has been better then Curry this year too. Casspi has been real solid, but I would probably put Curry ahead of him, right behind Flynn.

spreadeagle
01-20-2010, 02:07 AM
i am so happy for you. seems like u are coming closer to what really matters in life.

Woah,bitter much?.So he mentioned Curry was also on his fantasy team.Fantasy leagues are really fun

montazingmvp
01-20-2010, 05:34 AM
how is Curry 2nd in the ROY race?? And Evans plays at a slower pace, yet has far better numbers than any rookie, and its not even close. Right now, its

Evans
Jennings
Flynn
Casspi
Curry

At least to me it is.

explain to me how flynn and casspi are better than curry...jennings has a higher per for one reason..because he's a chucker and PER rewards players who take a lot of fga...jennings you can make a decent argument...

but please explain to me how flynn has been better than curry...

curry is a more efficient scorer. a much better three point shooter. curry is a better passer with a better a/to ratio. curry is a better rebounder and he is a better defender...

i'm actually hardpressed to find one thing flynn is better than curry at...

DodgerBulls
01-20-2010, 06:09 AM
We still yet to see whose team gets the better record at the of the regular season just like what happened to Mayo last year.

DerekRE_3
01-20-2010, 12:18 PM
We still yet to see whose team gets the better record at the of the regular season just like what happened to Mayo last year.

That would mean the ROY is close...which it isn't.

Hawkeye15
01-20-2010, 12:18 PM
explain to me how flynn and casspi are better than curry...jennings has a higher per for one reason..because he's a chucker and PER rewards players who take a lot of fga...jennings you can make a decent argument...

but please explain to me how flynn has been better than curry...

curry is a more efficient scorer. a much better three point shooter. curry is a better passer with a better a/to ratio. curry is a better rebounder and he is a better defender...

i'm actually hardpressed to find one thing flynn is better than curry at...

sure. Flynn is higher in usage, and value added than Curry. He also has a higher points per 40 minutes, and higher assister per 40. Hence why is PER is slightly higher than Curry.

If you would like to look at bottom line espn stats, like ppg, fg%, then yes, you will come to the conclusion that Curry is playing better. But when you actually look at stats the correct way, you see they are basically equal. As far as your defensive ratings, how are you measuring? Cause while I will agree Curry has the slightest edge on offense, as far as efficiency goes, Flynn has the slightest edge on defense, as efficiency goes. At that point, it becomes apples to oranges, and in my opinion, Flynn is having more of an effect on his team. Potential for future can not be factored in, that is not a deciding factor in play, but I also think Flynn has more potential in the NBA.

mavwar53
01-20-2010, 12:31 PM
I checked it out from my phone, the recap of the game gave me a good laugh. 3 players had HUGE nights, youd think people would see the trend that there is abit of inflation (per game wise), sadly nobody pays attention to pace or defense.

You sure are stupid, do you realize who was playing for the warriors monday, ellis biedrins curry and maggs, 3 D-Leaguers and devan George. Get a brain and then comment fool.

mavwar53
01-20-2010, 12:39 PM
1. Tyreke Evans

2. Brandon Jennings






3. Stephen Curry

Jennings has been garbage since thanksgiving, since that day he has shot over 40% in just 5 games, curry is ahead of jennings just look at the FG% Jennings 38.6% curry 45.9%. Jennings #'s are overinflated cause he has been the only option on his team at times, curry has ellis and maggs ahead of him all year and other guys before they got injured.

Dee_Edge
01-20-2010, 12:52 PM
I don't think so...maybe if Tyreke gets hurt, and he kept playing well.

Brandon's problem is...the secret is out, the dude can play.
Teams are hip to the fact that Redd is out for the season and Brandon is the man now...so he's getting doubled off the dribble and not getting good looks anymore.

McJoe
01-20-2010, 12:56 PM
I think Evans has had it locked up for a while. He's put up fantastic numbers. 20+ points, 5 boards, 5 assists, 1.5 steals. Great numbers across the board.

Hawkeye15
01-20-2010, 12:58 PM
Jennings has been garbage since thanksgiving, since that day he has shot over 40% in just 5 games, curry is ahead of jennings just look at the FG% Jennings 38.6% curry 45.9%. Jennings #'s are overinflated cause he has been the only option on his team at times, curry has ellis and maggs ahead of him all year and other guys before they got injured.

Curry was garbage until Thanksgiving though. And it doesn't matter how you get numbers, its an 82 game season. and up to this point, Jennings has much better numbers, regardless of any factors. Durant won ROY rightly so, due to the fact he was given 20 shots a game off the bat. Can't penalize a guy for going to a good or bad team.
And taking a 5 game sample can make anyone look great. Just have to pick the right 5 games.

DerekRE_3
01-20-2010, 01:04 PM
I think the bottom line is this:

-Jennings had an incredible start to the season and has either been figured out by defenses or has come back down to earth.
-Curry had a slow start to the season but is starting to get it and put up good numbers...or is he just on a hot streak right now. Time will tell.
-Evans has pretty much been consistent the whole year besides the 4 of his first 5 games where he was not very good.
November: 20.3 PPG 5.5 RPG 5.1 APG 45% FG 82.6% FT
December: 22.1 PPG 5.3 RPG 5.1 APG 47% FG 76.7% FT
January: 22.5 PPG 4.5 RPG 5.5 APG 45% FG 81.4% FT

Hawkeye15
01-20-2010, 01:18 PM
I think the bottom line is this:

-Jennings had an incredible start to the season and has either been figured out by defenses or has come back down to earth.
-Curry had a slow start to the season but is starting to get it and put up good numbers...or is he just on a hot streak right now. Time will tell.
-Evans has pretty much been consistent the whole year besides the 4 of his first 5 games where he was not very good.
November: 20.3 PPG 5.5 RPG 5.1 APG 45% FG 82.6% FT
December: 22.1 PPG 5.3 RPG 5.1 APG 47% FG 76.7% FT
January: 22.5 PPG 4.5 RPG 5.5 APG 45% FG 81.4% FT

this is what many have been trying to say. Evans is clear cut in the lead, and its not even close. the rest, time will tell, there are a few players bunched together after Evans. So fighting over who is better between Jennings, Flynn, Curry, Lawson, blah, blah, blah is a mute point

mcgswfan
01-20-2010, 01:26 PM
Well it's not always his fault. Yes, he needs to be smarter with fouls, but he gets sooo many bs calls called against him that it gets pretty ridiculous. Refs seem to hate him.

Kudos to that comment! It's not just Curry though, the refs hate every player in a Warriors uniform except for Maggette. I wonder what kind of pixie dust or magical concoction Maggette uses to somehow manage to get foul calls 90% of the time when he drives the lane? Whatever it is, does he have more that he can lend to Ellis and Curry as well? Also, does he have a defensive version of it that he can loan to our limited big bodies to allow them to stay on the floor for a decent stretch of minutes? LOL

Hawkeye15
01-20-2010, 01:43 PM
Kudos to that comment! It's not just Curry though, the refs hate every player in a Warriors uniform except for Maggette. I wonder what kind of pixie dust or magical concoction Maggette uses to somehow manage to get foul calls 90% of the time when he drives the lane? Whatever it is, does he have more that he can lend to Ellis and Curry as well? Also, does he have a defensive version of it that he can loan to our limited big bodies to allow them to stay on the floor for a decent stretch of minutes? LOL

haha, some of this is true. Anytime I watch the Warriors, they seem to get hosed on the calls.
I think Maggette has gotten a rep with the refs. Curry is a rookie, so he has to earn it. As far as Ellis, not sure. He gets hammered, and doesn't get a lot of free throws.