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View Full Version : Is Rajon Rondo The Celtics Best Player?



Fresno
01-16-2010, 06:13 PM
Can people finally put to rest the argument that he is an average player playing next to 3 future Hall of Famers?

Rondo has been carrying this team this season with Pierce who's on the decline, Allen who's on the decline, and KG who not only is on the decline but is being slowed down by injuries.

In the last 20 games, Rondo is averaging 16 PPG 10 APG 2.5 SPG.

Celtics would be lost without Rondo.

robbnen#31
01-16-2010, 06:14 PM
He's decent at best if he got placed on a team where he was supposedly the best player

kozelkid
01-16-2010, 06:16 PM
No... Paul Pierce is.
Rondo is crucial to the team, but Piece is better without a doubt.

Vinny642
01-16-2010, 06:17 PM
Switch him with Harris and see how he does on the Nets....

abe_froman
01-16-2010, 06:20 PM
no,its gotta be kg,his impact on that team is huge.rondo i'd say is top 3

ManRam
01-16-2010, 06:28 PM
He is #2. Pierce is still the best. He is, however, the most deserving of being an all star.

I do think people who say that Rondo is only good because of the people he plays with are lunatics. Rondo is a beast. Easily the best PG in the East.

He's proven he puts up ridiculous numbers without the Big Three all healthy. His numbers would be way better on any other team in the league. I'm serious.

Shaddix
01-16-2010, 06:31 PM
Factoring in proneness to injury, then yes without a doubt.

Strumpy
01-16-2010, 06:51 PM
The past 3 weeks or so, yes. I don't think Pierce is even close to being fully recovered from his knee injury. He hobbles up and down the court and doesn't look good. How much would a new knee for Pierce and Garnett cost?

DamnGoat
01-16-2010, 06:53 PM
KG and Pierce are both more important to that team than Rondo.

He's solid, but if you're expecting him to carry a team then you're in trouble IMO.

RadiantShot
01-16-2010, 06:58 PM
KG and Pierce are both more important to that team than Rondo.

He's solid, but if you're expecting him to carry a team then you're in trouble IMO.

Ehh..Take Rondo out of it, and everything that was uniform falls apart. Rondo is the general/quarterback/leader on the team.

Rondo - General
Allen - Clutch
Pierce - Consistancy/Go-To
Garnett - Intensity/Heart/Confidence Boost
Perkins - Energetic Presence

That's basically how it looks like for the Celtic's.

Bullsfan22
01-16-2010, 06:59 PM
KG and Pierce are both more important to that team than Rondo.

He's solid, but if you're expecting him to carry a team then you're in trouble IMO.

on the money.

Bullsfan22
01-16-2010, 07:01 PM
Ehh..Take Rondo out of it, and everything that was uniform falls apart. Rondo is the general/quarterback/leader on the team.

Rondo - General
Allen - Clutch
Pierce - Consistancy/Go-To
Garnett - Intensity/Heart/Confidence Boost
Perkins - Energetic Presence

That's basically how it looks like for the Celtic's.

there's a lot of pg's that be a capable enough to play the qb role and ray,paul, kg, and perk would all be the same players.

Reversed86Curse
01-16-2010, 07:05 PM
on the money.

wrong. he's proven time and time again that he can be the go to guy, as he has for most of the season, so all who say he couldn't be the go to guy and succeed on a winning team, well he has, and they are. Get over it

ManRam
01-16-2010, 07:09 PM
wrong. he's proven time and time again that he can be the go to guy, as he has for most of the season, so all who say he couldn't be the go to guy and succeed on a winning team, well he has, and they are. Get over it

I agree. He's proven he can carry the team when any of the big three are out. Haters wanna hate, that's fine...

Allen is no longer an all-star caliber player. Pierce and KG have both missed a fair amount of time recently. The one consistent force is Rondo. His numbers when any of the big three are out are amazing. Easily, easily, easily the best PG in the East. Rose might have more upside, but he couldn't carry that team like Rondo. Mo Williams...haha. Devin Harris. Nope.

magichatnumber9
01-16-2010, 07:17 PM
on the money.Ray couldn't carry the supersonics. KG barely carried Minn. and he needed a couple of stars around him. Paul will just quit if there is no one to help. So that whole carrying the team argument is absolutely ridiculous to me. No one can carry a team by themselves. Not even Michael

Kakaroach
01-16-2010, 07:18 PM
Pierce is their most important and then KG and then Rondo.

Bullsfan22
01-16-2010, 07:18 PM
wrong. he's proven time and time again that he can be the go to guy, as he has for most of the season, so all who say he couldn't be the go to guy and succeed on a winning team, well he has, and they are. Get over it

jose calderon,chris duhon,session, andre miller, nelson can all switch roles right now with rondo and average 10 points and 10 assist and play qb. The fact is your celtics are a different team from their championship years, rondo now dominates the ball instead of playing within the offense like he did the championship year. Paul pierce is not ray allen, he needs to have the ball and get touches early in the game but that's not happening anymore. Rondo emerging as a better player can quite possibly hurt you guys in the long run. and to respond to your thinking that rondo has proved he can be a go to player is dead wrong because just because one of the big three is missing doesn't mean the other two is not taking major pressure off rondo. try helping off ray allen, pierce, eddie house, rasheed when rondo decides to attack the rim if you want too.

magichatnumber9
01-16-2010, 07:19 PM
Rondo might be the best point guard in the East, but if Wall come over to the East side all bets are off.

Shaddix
01-16-2010, 07:21 PM
Most of these people do not understand. They don't watch the celtics, they just see the name son paper. IF you ACTUALLY watched the game, you'd know that Rondo is extremely worthy of this discussion. The celts have tried plugging other PG's into this role and most of them didn't work out. Coincidence? I THINK NOT :silly:

Bullsfan22
01-16-2010, 07:24 PM
Most of these people do not understand. They don't watch the celtics, they just see the name son paper. IF you ACTUALLY watched the game, you'd know that Rondo is extremely worthy of this discussion. The celts have tried plugging other PG's into this role and most of them didn't work out. Coincidence? I THINK NOT :silly:

who stephon marbury?

magichatnumber9
01-16-2010, 07:25 PM
Most of these people do not understand. They don't watch the celtics, they just see the name son paper. IF you ACTUALLY watched the game, you'd know that Rondo is extremely worthy of this discussion. The celts have tried plugging other PG's into this role and most of them didn't work out. Coincidence? I THINK NOT :silly:Good point. If Rondo knew how to shoot the ball he would be in the top three as far as point guards. But teams are starting to get smarter with how they guard the C's. Look at the 4th quarter when they played Atlanta. The kept the paint well guarded so Rondo couldn't drive. If Rondo had a jumper omg

ecorrea
01-16-2010, 07:26 PM
Most of these people do not understand. They don't watch the celtics, they just see the name son paper. IF you ACTUALLY watched the game, you'd know that Rondo is extremely worthy of this discussion. The celts have tried plugging other PG's into this role and most of them didn't work out. Coincidence? I THINK NOT :silly:

when garnett, allen, and pierce all played together for the first time, who else got a shot at pg? Which pgs didnt work?

magichatnumber9
01-16-2010, 07:27 PM
who stephon marbury?Steph could not run that offense for ****. He tried being Rondo and failed miserably.

magichatnumber9
01-16-2010, 07:29 PM
when garnett, allen, and pierce all played together for the first time, who else got a shot at pg? Which pgs didnt work?Sam Cassell, Steph Marbury, Eddy House, Lester Hudson, Gabe Pruit. All had flashes of brilliance at times but consistency failed each of them.

Lil Rhody
01-16-2010, 07:31 PM
I got a club for the non haters but for all the haters out in PSD land **** ya

nipo10847
01-16-2010, 07:31 PM
1. Paul pierce (guy who takes care of business in the 4th quarter).
2. KG (Emotional Leader and Heart of the team).
3. Rondo (Best PG in the east, him and cp3 are the only triple double pg's in the league now)
4. Allen (The most clutch player in the league. When he gets the ball beyond the arc in the 4th q, I feel like the ball is goin even if his eyes are closed. Most recent memory: he killed maimi heat in AAA when heat was leading by 11 points only 5 mins remaining).

Bulls_fan90
01-16-2010, 07:35 PM
Switch him with Harris and see how he does on the Nets....

Exactly. :clap:

Bulls_fan90
01-16-2010, 07:36 PM
1. Paul pierce (guy who takes care of business in the 4th quarter).
2. KG (Emotional Leader and Heart of the team).
3. Rondo (Best PG in the east, him and cp3 are the only triple double pg's in the league now)
4. Allen (The most clutch player in the league. When he gets the ball beyond the arc in the 4th q, I feel like the ball is goin even if his eyes are closed. Most recent memory: he killed maimi heat in AAA when heat was leading by 11 points only 5 mins remaining).

Is Kobe...not Allen. But yes, he is also very good in the clutch.

effen5
01-16-2010, 07:42 PM
Bostons defense is mediocre without kg, kg takes that defense to a different level. So no rondo isnt the best player, kg is followed by pierce

Shaddix
01-16-2010, 07:46 PM
who stephon marbury?

Rondo is not just another pawn put in place to run the offense, the celts got themselves a pretty damn good point guard. Sam Cassell and Marbury were half decent and rondo has clearly surpassed them.

magichatnumber9
01-16-2010, 07:49 PM
Is Kobe...not Allen. But yes, he is also very good in the clutch.How about Jamal Crawford. The man was born to break hearts in the 4th

runforrestrunx9
01-16-2010, 07:49 PM
peirce is better... but rondo is also great

Bullsfan22
01-16-2010, 07:51 PM
Rondo is not just another pawn put in place to run the offense, the celts got themselves a pretty damn good point guard. Sam Cassell and Marbury were half decent and rondo has clearly surpassed them.

cassell was 80 and marbury was eating vaseline, offcoirse he surpassed him. The thing is when they won a championship rondo was pawn. He is a better player that dominates the ball more which is a bad thing even if he is getting assist because players like pierce has and needs his iso game to be 100 effective to close games out. Whats funny is rondo criticized cp3 for being a ball hog, he does the same exact thing but is not half the scorer.

Mr. Fluffi
01-16-2010, 07:52 PM
no, pierce is still #1 but rondo is a very good point guard no doubt.

ecorrea
01-16-2010, 07:57 PM
Sam Cassell, Steph Marbury, Eddy House, Lester Hudson, Gabe Pruit. All had flashes of brilliance at times but consistency failed each of them.

dude rondo started 77 of the 77 games he played in the championship season... and has started every game since

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3026

nipo10847
01-16-2010, 08:04 PM
Is Kobe...not Allen. But yes, he is also very good in the clutch.

I would rather let kobe take a 3 pointer than Allen in the clutch times against my team. Granted, Kobe's had 2/3 really clutch games this year, but Allen will be the best threat for those heart-breaking last seconds' daggers.

Bullsfan22
01-16-2010, 08:08 PM
I would rather let kobe take a 3 pointer than Allen in the clutch times against my team. Granted, Kobe's had 2/3 really clutch games this year, but Allen will be the best threat for those heart-breaking last seconds' daggers.

agreed.

FaM0us Skins
01-16-2010, 08:11 PM
he is the most healthy player on the roster

sf-fanatic
01-16-2010, 08:28 PM
Switch him with Harris and see how he does on the Nets....

hit it right on the spot exactly what i was thinking. the players around him are making him better. hes the 4th option for the defend to defend. if he was the vocal point of which the defense is trying to contain such as players like monta or harris on a ****** team, lets see what kinda numbers he puts up

mikantsass
01-16-2010, 08:39 PM
ehh..take rondo out of it, and everything that was uniform falls apart. Rondo is the general/quarterback/leader on the team.

Rondo - general
allen - clutch
pierce - consistancy/go-to
garnett - intensity/heart/confidence boost
perkins - energetic presence

that's basically how it looks like for the celtic's.

x2

salimstoudamire
01-16-2010, 08:44 PM
jose calderon,chris duhon,session, andre miller, nelson can all switch roles right now with rondo and average 10 points and 10 assist and play qb. The fact is your celtics are a different team from their championship years, rondo now dominates the ball instead of playing within the offense like he did the championship year. Paul pierce is not ray allen, he needs to have the ball and get touches early in the game but that's not happening anymore. Rondo emerging as a better player can quite possibly hurt you guys in the long run. and to respond to your thinking that rondo has proved he can be a go to player is dead wrong because just because one of the big three is missing doesn't mean the other two is not taking major pressure off rondo. try helping off ray allen, pierce, eddie house, rasheed when rondo decides to attack the rim if you want too.

Love it, all true.

salimstoudamire
01-16-2010, 08:50 PM
Good point. If Rondo knew how to shoot the ball he would be in the top three as far as point guards. But teams are starting to get smarter with how they guard the C's. Look at the 4th quarter when they played Atlanta. The kept the paint well guarded so Rondo couldn't drive. If Rondo had a jumper omg

Shooting the ball is quite a big part of the game of basketball. But thats the thing, all he does is drive the lane, jump, and pass it out to the open man. Celtics are built with shooters, with Allen, Pierce, KG, House, Rasheed, all of which can stroke the J. All these players can stretch the floor and open up the lane for him to drive. On the defensive end, dude can do a little bit of work, but Celtics are a TEAM defensive team. They play great team d, look at what they did with Kobe in the Finals.
You can plug a lot of players in this spot and be just as successful, if not more. There isnt much special about his game. He gets the ball and drives to the basket and looks for the open man. Basic basketball. If I was building a team, it wouldnt consist of Rondo.

ChiSox219
01-16-2010, 09:40 PM
He's proven he puts up ridiculous numbers without the Big Three all healthy. His numbers would be way better on any other team in the league. I'm serious.

Disagree. I think Rondo is a good player, he's 3rd on the Celtics behind KG and Pierce but he certainly deserves to go to the all-star game.

Without those guys, Allen stretching the floor, Pierce slashing, KG bringing bigs away from the basket, Rondo would struggle a lot more offensively. If you force him to shoot from 15+ feet he will miss. He does a great job getting into the paint, but I think that would be harder to do with teammates that the defense can sag off or leave to help stop Rondo. And if he doesn't improve his FT shooting you would just see teams grab him once he got the first step because he's under 60% from the line this year.

Defensively, I've already exhausted this, but he's just not that great but his aggressiveness is a nice fit for a team that has three great defenders to help him with KG and Perkins being among the least best defensive big men. He gambles and plays behind his man a lot, more than any PG in the league and that's a luxury he can afford playing with the teammates he has.

He's only 23 so I have no doubt he'll improve the weaknesses I pointed out and it would be long before he is the Celtics best player.

dominater6192
01-16-2010, 09:53 PM
I agree. He's proven he can carry the team when any of the big three are out. Haters wanna hate, that's fine...

Allen is no longer an all-star caliber player. Pierce and KG have both missed a fair amount of time recently. The one consistent force is Rondo. His numbers when any of the big three are out are amazing. Easily, easily, easily the best PG in the East. Rose might have more upside, but he couldn't carry that team like Rondo. Mo Williams...haha. Devin Harris. Nope.

I am a Bulls fan and after watching the Celtics 7 game series against the Bulls where Rondo nearly averaged a triple double I realized how good of a player he really is.And although I hate Rondo and think he is a class less douche I'll have to agree that Rondo is the best Celtic player and the best PG in the East. However to say easily is a lie and to use 3 easilys is just stupid. Rondo has just a very slight edge over D-Rose. Rose was'nt healthy for the first two months of the season and now that he is finally healthy in his last 19 games he has averaged 23.5 PPG 6.9 APG 4.8 RPG FG% .475. in 36.5 MPG while in Rondo's last 19 games he has averaged 16.4 PPG 9.6 APG 3.8 RPG FG%.525 in 39.5 MPG. Both numbers are fantastic: Rose has 7 more PPG and 1 RPG more than Rondo while playing 3 less minutes per game but Rondo totals more assists and shoots a higher percentage. Overall offensively both players are All-Star caliber but what gives Rondo his slight edge over Rose is not his offense with Rose being a more dangerous offensive player. What gives Rondo his edge is his D, Rose is an improving defender but as of right now he is not even close to the level of Rondo. So I'll say it as of right now Rondo is better PG with a very slight edge.
And are you serious when you say Rose can't carry a team? What do you think he has been doing all season?Rondo has Allen Pierce Kg and Rasheed even if their injuried he has had them at some point this season to take some of the slack. Rose has no star players next to him he carries the 2nd worst shooting Bulls every night by himself. If the Bulls had Rondo instead of Rose they would ten games below .500 at least. Rose carries a team just as well if not better then Rondo does.

FlakeyFool
01-16-2010, 10:08 PM
Ray couldn't carry the supersonics. KG barely carried Minn. and he needed a couple of stars around him. Paul will just quit if there is no one to help. So that whole carrying the team argument is absolutely ridiculous to me. No one can carry a team by themselves. Not even Michael

He carried them.

ChiSox219
01-16-2010, 10:10 PM
He carried them.

:clap:

That might be the best post I've ever read.

RadiantShot
01-16-2010, 10:18 PM
I love whoever said 'switch him with Devin Harris.' Different players are better for different teams...Switch a point-guard more prone to shooting with a point-guard more prone to passing, and there's a different team. I think at this point in both players' careers, Devin may be faster, and shoot a better percentage from the foul line, but Rondo is better at multiple things as well. You have to keep all of the key points in mind. I wouldn't trade Rondo for Harris. Call me crazy, but Rondo fits perfectly on the Celtics.

jim51990
01-16-2010, 10:19 PM
i think he is
a fully health peirce and kg may be both i dont see either ever being fully healthy so he is

_KB24_
01-16-2010, 10:25 PM
He's better than Allen now. KG and Pierce are still better overall

kozelkid
01-16-2010, 10:35 PM
Ray couldn't carry the supersonics. KG barely carried Minn. and he needed a couple of stars around him. Paul will just quit if there is no one to help. So that whole carrying the team argument is absolutely ridiculous to me. No one can carry a team by themselves. Not even Michael

It's not ridiculous at all, unless you are misinterpreting what posters mean by carry. Single handedly lead a team to a championship? Yes you are right, no player has ever been able to do that. But carry a team, to say... the playoffs? Easily and is done almost every year. Hell Wade led a fairly poor Miami squad to 4th seed last season.
In the case, of the Celtics, no one is really carrying that team anymore. They just have unbelievable team chemistry. At this point I'd say, Pierce is the only true number one option. KG doesn't seem the same player, and Ray Allen is more of a shooter nowadays who has a great night every so often, while Rondo is the quarterback of the team. They have great chemistry, but if Celtics need to score a bucket in clutch situation, Rondo probably won't be the first player called upon.

kozelkid
01-16-2010, 10:38 PM
Disagree. I think Rondo is a good player, he's 3rd on the Celtics behind KG and Pierce but he certainly deserves to go to the all-star game.

Without those guys, Allen stretching the floor, Pierce slashing, KG bringing bigs away from the basket, Rondo would struggle a lot more offensively. If you force him to shoot from 15+ feet he will miss. He does a great job getting into the paint, but I think that would be harder to do with teammates that the defense can sag off or leave to help stop Rondo. And if he doesn't improve his FT shooting you would just see teams grab him once he got the first step because he's under 60% from the line this year.

Defensively, I've already exhausted this, but he's just not that great but his aggressiveness is a nice fit for a team that has three great defenders to help him with KG and Perkins being among the least best defensive big men. He gambles and plays behind his man a lot, more than any PG in the league and that's a luxury he can afford playing with the teammates he has.

He's only 23 so I have no doubt he'll improve the weaknesses I pointed out and it would be long before he is the Celtics best player.

Great post.
As you said, Rondo, on the current team is certainly an allstar, but he's put in a great situation as well. It also helped him become a good player faster than if he didn't have the opportunity of playing with the big 3. With that said, I really doubt he could be a number one or number two scoring option on a great team. He really is offered alot of benefits, such as spacing. He has grown alot as a player and is using his team to the fullest advantage, but I can't see him being this good without the big 3. However, atm, he's certainly an allstar.

asian_sensation
01-16-2010, 10:39 PM
I agree. He's proven he can carry the team when any of the big three are out. Haters wanna hate, that's fine...

Allen is no longer an all-star caliber player. Pierce and KG have both missed a fair amount of time recently. The one consistent force is Rondo. His numbers when any of the big three are out are amazing. Easily, easily, easily the best PG in the East. Rose might have more upside, but he couldn't carry that team like Rondo. Mo Williams...haha. Devin Harris. Nope.

Agree with Harris & Mo, but don't even think of saying Rose can't carry that team. If Rose develops a consistent jump shot, he is hands down above and beyond better than Rondo. Please think before you speak. :facepalm:

kozelkid
01-16-2010, 10:41 PM
Well here's the thing, out of Harris, Mo, and Rose, Rondo definitely is the best POINT guards out of the 4. He plays that role flawlessly with the Celtics. He handles the ball well and makes few mistakes and often sets up teammates well. Sure, the other 3, aren't put at as good of a situation as Rondo, but currently, Rondo is the best POINT guard out of three. As an overall player? I'm not so sure.

RadiantShot
01-16-2010, 10:42 PM
Agree with Harris & Mo, but don't even think of saying Rose can't carry that team. If Rose develops a consistent jump shot, he is hands down above and beyond better than Rondo. Please think before you speak. :facepalm:

You do know ManRam is probably one of the smartest people in the NBA forum on PSD, correct?

Either way..They're both great players.

Fresno
01-16-2010, 10:45 PM
i think he is
a fully health peirce and kg may be both i dont see either ever being fully healthy so he is

That was my point too.

I'm not saying who is the most important Celtics player, thats obviously KG for everything he brings on the court in terms of passion & leadership. But Rondo at this point when the entire team is healthy is the best player on the Celtics, Rondo is the guy that makes them good now.

Seems like a lot of people havent watched the Celtics play this season. KG is not the same player he once was and injuries are limiting him even more, hes a solid player but not a #1 or #2 option anymore on an every game basis. Pierce's first step has gotten noticeably slower each of the last 2 seasons and now at this point he can't slash like he used to,hes still good but not as good as he was in his prime. Ray Allen at this point is a spot shooter.

Everyone expected this to happen at some point, The Big 3 to get old(KG will be 34, Pierce will be 33, Allen will be 35) and Rondo to emerge as the star player. Rondo's only 23, he still has time to develop a jumper and become a Top 3 PG in the NBA.

People seem to forget that Rondo carried the Celtics through the Playoffs last year with a healthy Pierce and Allen. Replace Rondo with any other PG and the Celtics in my opinion are a 6-8 seed in the East, their core at this point revolves solely around Rondo.

theuuord
01-16-2010, 10:46 PM
He's very talented... He turns the ball over far too much, is a horrendous free throw shooter, can't shoot effectively outside of 15 feet and is given really easy looks because he's not the focal offensive player on his team, but he is a good player. Not the best on the Celtics though.

bagwell368
01-16-2010, 10:48 PM
No... Paul Pierce is.
Rondo is crucial to the team, but Piece is better without a doubt.

Well, I watch them a lot and Rondo is better then Pierce this year, and win shares say he is the best player on the team as well. Hmmm.

kozelkid
01-16-2010, 10:51 PM
Well, I watch them a lot and Rondo is better then Pierce this year, and win shares say he is the best player on the team as well. Hmmm.

Win shares also say Pau Gasol was better than Kobe Bryant last year. They also take into account the number of games played, and Pierce has missed more games. hmm

theuuord
01-16-2010, 10:51 PM
Well, I watch them a lot and Rondo is better then Pierce this year, and win shares say he is the best player on the team as well. Hmmm.

Defensive win shares is a terrible, terrible stat (even the creator acknowledges that) and Pierce has Rondo edged in OWS. Garnett also has more per minute, considering his injury.

theuuord
01-16-2010, 10:53 PM
Win shares also say Pau Gasol was better than Kobe Bryant last year. They also take into account the number of games played, and Pierce has missed more games.

That's really where WS is faulty... it measures an individual player's effectiveness, without being able to consider the impact of other players on the court. Most of the time that effect is pretty minimal - Pierce barring injury will always have more win shares than Brian Scalabrine - but there are exceptions.

Wisdom Listens
01-16-2010, 10:54 PM
Of course Rondo isn't their best player. Not even close.

kozelkid
01-16-2010, 10:57 PM
That's really where WS is faulty... it measures an individual player's effectiveness, without being able to consider the impact of other players on the court. Most of the time that effect is pretty minimal - Pierce barring injury will always have more win shares than Brian Scalabrine - but there are exceptions.

Well in the case of Lakers, it does a bad job of taking account for triangle.
All in all, I've never been much of a fan for win shares and APM stats. I'd rather try to take a players game apart using ts%, reb rate, usage %, etc. And sometimes PER.

thedfactor
01-16-2010, 10:59 PM
I actually do think Rondo is their most valuable player, moreso than Pierce. They do not have a legit back up point guard or anyone nearly as good to handle the controls. Garnett is vital, but Rasheed can hold ship when healthy and they can still win tight games with either Allen or Pierce missing, because the other one just steps up.

Rondo.

theuuord
01-16-2010, 11:00 PM
Well in the case of Lakers, it does a bad job of taking account for triangle.
All in all, I've never been much of a fan for win shares and APM stats. I'd rather try to take a players game apart using ts%, reb rate, usage %, etc. And sometimes PER.

good call. although you always always ALWAYS have to put them in context, and when they're not you see how stats get abused all the time.

Sly Guy
01-16-2010, 11:01 PM
no, rajon rondo is the best celtic ever.

bagwell368
01-16-2010, 11:07 PM
good stuff:

he's 16th in the league in FG% at .531 (in 4 years he's done this .418 .492 .505 .531)
he's 2nd in assists (3rd in APG)
he's 1st in steals (and 1st in SPG)
he's 6th in defensive win shares
he's 16th in defensive rating
he's 16th in win shares (top Celt) (his trends: 2.4 7.2 9.9 11.0) that's really good
also averages 4.3 rebounds per game

not so good:

tied for 16th in turnovers, with Nash, Durant, James, Wade, Arenas and others with more

he's a brick from the foul line, his career suggests he should have years over 65% for the most part

his outside range is not so good.

Best thing:

He won't be 24 for a month, and he's already 25% into a HOF level career. Read it and weep.

But to be real, the title hopes rest on KG the most, then Rondo. It's a lot of moving pieces, something will go wrong and they won't win. But it they do get to the finals in the same general health as the other team? I'd take the Celts.

bostncelts34
01-16-2010, 11:09 PM
Rondo is not our best player no, but he is however our most valuable player. Without him, watching this team can be hard sometimes. They walk the ball up the court, dont spread the floor, make poor decisions with the ball. Rondo makes this team go, without rondo..this team would have NO title chances.

1. Pierce
2.Rondo
3. KG (healthy of course)
4.Ray ray

salimstoudamire
01-16-2010, 11:13 PM
good stuff:

he's 16th in the league in FG% at .531 (in 4 years he's done this .418 .492 .505 .531)
he's 2nd in assists (3rd in APG)
he's 1st in steals (and 1st in SPG)
he's 6th in defensive win shares
he's 16th in defensive rating
he's 16th in win shares (top Celt) (his trends: 2.4 7.2 9.9 11.0) that's really good
also averages 4.3 rebounds per game

not so good:

tied for 16th in turnovers, with Nash, Durant, James, Wade, Arenas and others with more

he's a brick from the foul line, his career suggests he should have years over 65% for the most part

his outside range is not so good.

Best thing:

He won't be 24 for a month, and he's already 25% into a HOF level career. Read it and weep.

But to be real, the title hopes rest on KG the most, then Rondo. It's a lot of moving pieces, something will go wrong and they won't win. But it they do get to the finals in the same general health as the other team? I'd take the Celts.

:facepalm:

RadiantShot
01-16-2010, 11:18 PM
:facepalm:

I second that.
:facepalm::facepalm:

TheWatcher34
01-16-2010, 11:29 PM
Rondo is great, he's not a franchise player.

kozelkid
01-16-2010, 11:30 PM
good stuff:

he's 16th in the league in FG% at .531 (in 4 years he's done this .418 .492 .505 .531)

Don't really care. He has the benefit of playing with 3 deadly offensive players. Volume is just as important as fg%, and his scoring average obviously isn't all that impressive.


he's 2nd in assists (3rd in APG)

I hope you aren't implying he's the second or third best passer in the league. I'd say he's maybe 5th.


he's 1st in steals (and 1st in SPG)

Meaningless. Ellis and AI also get alot of steals.


he's 6th in defensive win shares
Dumb stat as theuuord pointed out


he's 16th in defensive rating
Another poor defensive stat imo. In fact there really isn't any good defensive stat. With that said, he's an above average pg defender. I wouldn't say he's as great as many others like to say.


he's 16th in win shares (top Celt) (his trends: 2.4 7.2 9.9 11.0) that's really good

Poor stat as I and theuuord proved earlier.


also averages 4.3 rebounds per game

agreed there. He's a very good rebounder.



he's a brick from the foul line, his career suggests he should have years over 65% for the most part

his outside range is not so good.
Yup.


Best thing:

He won't be 24 for a month, and he's already 25% into a HOF level career. Read it and weep.


I'm VERY curious how you calculated that.

BkOriginalOne
01-16-2010, 11:34 PM
Honestly, Rondo will be a top 5 point guard for years to come.
He will be in the HOF, because he wil be making first team NBA D selections, and should certainly get the call to play for team USA.

If Rondo was a top 3 option for a team, he would average 16, 11 and 4-5 boards. Plus over 2.5 steals per contest.

I believed in Rondo since his days under Tubby Smith, it's good to seam him shine.
With that said, He'll probably walk after the Cs get old and slide right into another contenders hands.

TheWatcher34
01-16-2010, 11:34 PM
no, rajon rondo is the best celtic ever.

Rondo has gone from a role player to someone to some one who CAN decide the outcome of a game. nobody ever expected him to do so tho.... that's why there's no reason for u to be sarcastic... if surrounded by the players that u want on your team... Rondo will contribute and deliver so that u will always have a fair chance to reach the ECF !!!
let's go..we might also be talking rings here.... Rondo is dangerous... however, he's not capable of doing it by himself...

Fresno
01-17-2010, 01:37 AM
Honestly, Rondo will be a top 5 point guard for years to come.
He will be in the HOF, because he wil be making first team NBA D selections, and should certainly get the call to play for team USA.

If Rondo was a top 3 option for a team, he would average 16, 11 and 4-5 boards. Plus over 2.5 steals per contest.

I believed in Rondo since his days under Tubby Smith, it's good to seam him shine.
With that said, He'll probably walk after the Cs get old and slide right into another contenders hands.

:facepalm:

Not a chance in hell, hes good but not that good.

No way he makes Team USA, ever. If you can't shoot you can't play for Team USA.

ldc62
01-17-2010, 03:47 AM
How bout the Celtics trade away the big 3 and see how well Rondo does by himself...

ldc62
01-17-2010, 03:49 AM
:facepalm:

Not a chance in hell, hes good but not that good.

No way he makes Team USA, ever. If you can't shoot you can't play for Team USA.

This Rondo bandwagon is growing everyday. And I agree that he isn't even that good (no way he will ever don a USA jersey). Rondo is impressive, but if he was the number 1 option he would not be this good (Reason: Teams focus their gameplan on Ray and Pierce and Kevin).

Driven
01-17-2010, 03:59 AM
When it comes to being a PG, Rondo is at the top of the list. With Chris Paul numbers when it comes to assists, turnovers and steals, I don't think you're going to see a more efficient player than him.

People saying that he only does this because of the talent on the team are wrong. Keep in mind that the Celtics do not put up a ton of points and do not take a ton of shots. They are a half court offense that's methodical.

Rondo's not a shooter. We all know that. But the dude is flat out one of the best PGs in the game.

Ray_R
01-17-2010, 04:16 AM
Ray couldn't carry the supersonics. KG barely carried Minn. and he needed a couple of stars around him. Paul will just quit if there is no one to help. So that whole carrying the team argument is absolutely ridiculous to me. No one can carry a team by themselves. Not even Michael

GTFO now Blasphemy
































:laugh: But seriously Blasphemy

Omar Little
01-17-2010, 04:21 AM
He's not their best player, but he is far better then average. I think a case could be made for the fact that he is their MVP though. Which is odd, because not only is he not their best player, but really more like their 4th best player. But he is the one that makes them go. He's a terrific point guard and is great at finding players in the best position to make a play. He obviously has the benefit of 3 all stars surrounding him, but seems to get the best out of them through his play.

salimstoudamire
01-17-2010, 04:38 AM
All he does is drive and dish. Throw an oooop to KG every now and then. No way he does this on the Sixers, no gd way. Kid is a product of the system and the players he plays with. There are several PGs that can do what he does, and probably would do it better.

salimstoudamire
01-17-2010, 04:42 AM
Honestly, Rondo will be a top 5 point guard for years to come.
He will be in the HOF, because he wil be making first team NBA D selections, and should certainly get the call to play for team USA.

If Rondo was a top 3 option for a team, he would average 16, 11 and 4-5 boards. Plus over 2.5 steals per contest.

I believed in Rondo since his days under Tubby Smith, it's good to seam him shine.
With that said, He'll probably walk after the Cs get old and slide right into another contenders hands.

First time I've had to use this twice in one thread.....:facepalm:

DoubleCs
01-17-2010, 04:53 AM
I've been a die hard Rondo fan for 3 years now, favorite player in the league. And no he is not the best player on the Celtics, there's no reason to even think this. Kevin Garnett not injured is better then him, Paul Pierce can go for 28 points and make it look like nothing. Sure Rondo is great but no these two players are the Kobe Bryants of the Celtics, Rondo is there Bynum. nothing more then that.

Reversed86Curse
01-17-2010, 09:41 AM
Switch him with Harris and see how he does on the Nets....

The Nets would get a PG who could pass, drive, has above average defense and gets a ton of steals and wasn't the worst 3pt shooter in the league, so that sounds better for the Nets to me

magichatnumber9
01-17-2010, 10:36 AM
Switch Harris with Rondo and management will tell Rajon the same thing there telling Devin. Tank the season so if we get the first pick we will get Wall and trade you. If we don't get the first pick then we will get someone to compliment you.

ChiSox219
01-17-2010, 10:39 AM
The Nets would get a PG who could pass, drive, has above average defense and gets a ton of steals and wasn't the worst 3pt shooter in the league, so that sounds better for the Nets to me

Rondo is worse than Devin Harris when it comes to threes...or jump shots in general.

Lil Rhody
01-17-2010, 10:42 AM
Kozelkid you said Meaningless. Ellis and AI also get alot of steals. To Bagwells stats of him being #1 in steals this year. IDK I watch a good amount of basketball (prefer NCAA) and I think steals are wicked important. Guy steals the ball.... fast break. Guy steals the ball... momentum changer. IDK maybe its just me cause I love D more then O but steals are a more important stat then you think

Trouble87
01-17-2010, 10:44 AM
Rondo is crucial but Pierce is still the best player on the Celts roster

ManRam
01-17-2010, 10:56 AM
Rondo is worse than Devin Harris when it comes to threes...or jump shots in general.

That's debatable. The difference; Rondo is smart enough to know that shooting threes 3 times a game is not a good option. Harris hasn't figured that out.

There is nothing Harris is better at than Rondo IMO. If Rondo needed to score 20 points a game, he could...and he would a much better percentage while doing so.

d00d
01-17-2010, 11:07 AM
no just the prettiest

vash9
01-17-2010, 12:36 PM
Pierce/KG.

Rondo is moving on up in the team though.

ayuntalo
01-17-2010, 01:08 PM
damn...rondo cant even shoot...

ManRam
01-17-2010, 01:25 PM
damn...rondo cant even shoot...

I don't think it matters when you are a PG shooting 53% from the field. I'd rather have a crazily efficient PG than one who can shoot the deep shot well, but only shoots 41% (like Gil for example, or even Jennings, who's shooting like 38%). A lot of the best PGs in the East can't shoot...like Rose, Harris, Stucky etc. The thing is, Rondo does everything else perfectly. One negative doesn't outweigh a plethora of positives.

theuuord
01-17-2010, 02:45 PM
I don't think it matters when you are a PG shooting 53% from the field. I'd rather have a crazily efficient PG than one who can shoot the deep shot well, but only shoots 41% (like Gil for example, or even Jennings, who's shooting like 38%). A lot of the best PGs in the East can't shoot...like Rose, Harris, Stucky etc. The thing is, Rondo does everything else perfectly. One negative doesn't outweigh a plethora of positives.

The issue is that Rondo is not a crazily efficient point guard. Efficiency also means being able to make free throws and threes, and he's abhorrent in both of those places. Because of it, Rondo's true shooting percentage is 23rd among point guards who qualify.
Rondo's inability to make jump shots allows defenders to sag off him and play help defense on more potent offensive players. Him not being able to spread the floor is a huge negative.

And to say Rondo does everything else "perfectly" is pushing it a little bit. He's a great defender but gambles a lot on steals. He turns the ball over frequently. He can't make free throws (as mentioned earlier)... He's a very good point guard, but let's not anoint him as the #1 Celtic because of it.

Reversed86Curse
01-17-2010, 05:03 PM
Rondo
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 BOS 37 37 36.3 0.531 0.189 0.586 1.1 2.9 4.0[/B] 9.6 2.5 0.1 3.0 2.8 14.0

Harris
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 NJN 28 25 34.2 0.385 0.211 0.781 0.4 2.9 3.2 5.9 1.6 0.2 2.7 2.8 16.1

Rose
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 CHI 38 38 36.0 0.468 0.154 0.767 0.9 2.8 3.7 6.0 0.7 0.3 2.8 1.3 19.0

Of the three 'better' point guards in the East, Rondo shoots for a better FG%, shoots just above Rose and just below Harris for 3pt %, while taking much less 3's than Harris and more than Rose (Harris 16/72, Rondo 7/37, Rose 2/13), gets more offensive and defensive rebounds, gets way more assists and steals than both and only scores 2 less points per game than Harris and 5 than Rose.

not saying he's the best in the NBA, but at the very least, stop hating on the guy, he's the best or equal to the best in the East. And his numbers aren't that far off from the West PG's. Give credit where credit is due

Avenged
01-17-2010, 05:16 PM
I wouldn't say best player! but probably the most important right now due to the Celtics injuries.

theuuord
01-17-2010, 05:37 PM
Rondo
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 BOS 37 37 36.3 0.531 0.189 0.586 1.1 2.9 4.0[/B] 9.6 2.5 0.1 3.0 2.8 14.0

Harris
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 NJN 28 25 34.2 0.385 0.211 0.781 0.4 2.9 3.2 5.9 1.6 0.2 2.7 2.8 16.1

Rose
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 CHI 38 38 36.0 0.468 0.154 0.767 0.9 2.8 3.7 6.0 0.7 0.3 2.8 1.3 19.0

Of the three 'better' point guards in the East, Rondo shoots for a better FG%, shoots just above Rose and just below Harris for 3pt %, while taking much less 3's than Harris and more than Rose (Harris 16/72, Rondo 7/37, Rose 2/13), gets more offensive and defensive rebounds, gets way more assists and steals than both and only scores 2 less points per game than Harris and 5 than Rose.

not saying he's the best in the NBA, but at the very least, stop hating on the guy, he's the best or equal to the best in the East. And his numbers aren't that far off from the West PG's. Give credit where credit is due

Are people comparing him to the other PG's in the east this year? That's not what I thought this thread was about. He's had the best year of any East PG imo. That doesn't make him the best Celtics player though.

$ NyC $
01-17-2010, 06:14 PM
The issue is that Rondo is not a crazily efficient point guard. Efficiency also means being able to make free throws and threes, and he's abhorrent in both of those places. Because of it, Rondo's true shooting percentage is 23rd among point guards who qualify.
Rondo's inability to make jump shots allows defenders to sag off him and play help defense on more potent offensive players. Him not being able to spread the floor is a huge negative.

And to say Rondo does everything else "perfectly" is pushing it a little bit. He's a great defender but gambles a lot on steals. He turns the ball over frequently. He can't make free throws (as mentioned earlier)... He's a very good point guard, but let's not anoint him as the #1 Celtic because of it.

Gotta agree with this. If Rondo was at least an 80% FT shooter it would help him plenty. The dude gets 2 the rim easily, but if hes fouled hes screwed. Being able to hit those freebies would help his game out enormously.

Then, if he was a decent jump-shooter it would open up his whole game. It would give his teammates more room to operate and would allow him 2 drive easier since defenders would have to man up on him, and Rondo has the speed to drive past them.

kozelkid
01-17-2010, 06:16 PM
Kozelkid you said Meaningless. Ellis and AI also get alot of steals. To Bagwells stats of him being #1 in steals this year. IDK I watch a good amount of basketball (prefer NCAA) and I think steals are wicked important. Guy steals the ball.... fast break. Guy steals the ball... momentum changer. IDK maybe its just me cause I love D more then O but steals are a more important stat then you think

All it's says is that he's good at gambling. That isn't always a good thing. I'm not saying he's a bad defender, far from it, he's good. Steals just isn't a good way to judge a defender. I can name you a number of great defenders who never had nigh number of steals. Shane Battier, Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen to name a few.

Reversed86Curse
01-17-2010, 06:18 PM
Are people comparing him to the other PG's in the east this year? That's not what I thought this thread was about. He's had the best year of any East PG imo. That doesn't make him the best Celtics player though.

My post was in regards to the 'put him on a lesser team' and swap him with so and so responses. That's not what the thread was about, but none the less.

Rondo may not be the best on the Celts as in skill set, but he is the most consistant and important piece right now

kozelkid
01-17-2010, 06:19 PM
That's debatable. The difference; Rondo is smart enough to know that shooting threes 3 times a game is not a good option. Harris hasn't figured that out.

No the difference is that Rondo doesn't have to cause he's on a good enough team where his role is to be a facilitator, which I admit, he has become very good at, possibly top 5.


There is nothing Harris is better at than Rondo IMO. If Rondo needed to score 20 points a game, he could...and he would a much better percentage while doing so.

Now that's simply false.
Rondo has yet to truly show he can lead a team. And no playoffs aren't proof because teams still had to worry about the threat of Allen and Pierce. Rondo isn't a very efficient player. He shoots fts poorly and has no 3 point range. Harris shoots 3's alot, but he also gets to the line a TON an converts, which makes him very efficient.
We simply don't know if Rondo can take over a game offensively, especially without the support he has. I have my doubts however, but we probably won't know til the big 3 leave.

kozelkid
01-17-2010, 06:21 PM
Gotta agree with this. If Rondo was at least an 80% FT shooter it would help him plenty. The dude gets 2 the rim easily, but if hes fouled hes screwed. Being able to hit those freebies would help his game out enormously.

Then, if he was a decent jump-shooter it would open up his whole game. It would give his teammates more room to operate and would allow him 2 drive easier since defenders would have to man up on him, and Rondo has the speed to drive past them.

Well for the sake of the current Celtics, he really doesn't need a jumpshot. Celtics still have enough threats from deep for him to continue to drive and get easy points. Now if he could become a good foul shooter and draw more fouls, then he can truly become a very good pg.

iluvsports2much
01-17-2010, 06:26 PM
i say yes, cuz he is a great defender and knows how to find his teamates better then most pgs in the league..hes also pretty clutch,he might not come up wit big shots all the time,but he gives nice passes at the right time and can easily get to the cup for a score...hes THE ONLY celtics player i like,and i think hes the most underated player in the league...if he finds his shot in the next couple years like tony parker did,imma go out and say he could potentially be an all time great

TheWatcher34
01-17-2010, 06:30 PM
just wait and see when Rondo actually hits his "prime". nobody can predict how good he's going to be, maybe he will have a solid jumper ... but looking at how he has developed over the last 3 years is pretty nasty Celtic's did a good job locking him up with that contract extension

Reversed86Curse
01-17-2010, 07:03 PM
Well for the sake of the current Celtics, he really doesn't need a jumpshot. Celtics still have enough threats from deep for him to continue to drive and get easy points. Now if he could become a good foul shooter and draw more fouls, then he can truly become a very good pg.

Very respectable points

Lil Rhody
01-17-2010, 07:13 PM
All it's says is that he's good at gambling. That isn't always a good thing. I'm not saying he's a bad defender, far from it, he's good. Steals just isn't a good way to judge a defender. I can name you a number of great defenders who never had nigh number of steals. Shane Battier, Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen to name a few.

True True..... very respectable answear..... I like this kid

kobebabe
01-17-2010, 07:17 PM
Ehh..Take Rondo out of it, and everything that was uniform falls apart. Rondo is the general/quarterback/leader on the team.

Rondo - General
Allen - Clutch
Pierce - Consistancy/Go-To
Garnett - Intensity/Heart/Confidence Boost
Perkins - Energetic Presence

That's basically how it looks like for the Celtic's.

Totally agree. He is actually one of the most under rated players in the NBA IMO.

lorenz00
01-17-2010, 07:54 PM
lol best player probably 4

Bullsfan22
01-17-2010, 07:57 PM
Totally agree. He is actually one of the most under rated players in the NBA IMO.

rondo underrated? lmao:facepalm:

iluvsports2much
01-17-2010, 08:09 PM
rondo underrated? lmao:facepalm:

ya i know...:facepalm: its more like derrik rose overrated..jk hes a great player too

Eaglemania
01-17-2010, 10:48 PM
IMO he's the one player they cant do without

Shortys4711
01-18-2010, 12:14 AM
Switch him with Harris and see how he does on the Nets....

bingo, agreed

IversonIsKrazy
01-18-2010, 01:08 AM
Rondo is vastly overrated, like this is ridiculous. Hes not as good as hes considered by certain people. How is Rondo better than Pierce, Allen, KG. Let's say all of them were injured but themselves, what celtic team would win more games?

1. Rondo w/o the big 3
2. Ray w/o the other 3
3. Pierce w/o the other 3
4. KG w/o the other 3

Theres no way Rondo's celtic team would win more. Rondo is amazingly overrated by celtics fans, they think hes better than Rose. Put Rondo on the Bulls and Rose on the Celtics, i would like to see how teams would do then.

RONDO IS OVERRATED AND THE 4th BEST PLAYER ON THE CELTICS.

T.O-Fan
01-18-2010, 01:27 AM
lets go to the topic..im not sure if anyone thinks rondo is the best player on the celtics team..Cmon..im suprised i see 8 pages of chatting here

THE MTL
01-18-2010, 02:04 AM
Can people finally put to rest the argument that he is an average player playing next to 3 future Hall of Famers?

Rondo has been carrying this team this season with Pierce who's on the decline, Allen who's on the decline, and KG who not only is on the decline but is being slowed down by injuries.

In the last 20 games, Rondo is averaging 16 PPG 10 APG 2.5 SPG.

Celtics would be lost without Rondo.

Rondo is NOT their best player at all. I think the Pierce, Garnett, and Allen still are all better than him..

HOWEVER.....Rondo is PLAYING the best. You can play better than someone but not necessarily be better than someone.

DodgerBulls
01-18-2010, 06:47 AM
I just don't see that he's the best player for the Celtics. Yes, Rondo has carried the team with their stars sitting on the bench because of injuries, but let's not forget that the Celtics bench is deep. Just to compare, if the Bulls has the same depth as the Celtics bench and the players surrounding Rose is shooting the same FG% as the whole Celtics does, I see Rose averaging a double-double too.

Don't get me wrong, Rondo is on the top 3 for the Celtics. I hate the kid, but I like his game.

azkarraga
01-18-2010, 09:17 AM
Is this the best thread ever?

Both questions have the same answer...

Sportfan
01-18-2010, 05:37 PM
Switch him with Harris and see how he does on the Nets....
Give him Brook Freaking Lopez?
That's a force to be reckoned with.

derekglasser
01-18-2010, 10:29 PM
Rondo isn't even a top 10 point guard. He's a good defender but a better athlete so he should be an even better defender. Hes a decent passer and is quick with the ball but still has no jump shot. He'll never crack top 10 til he develops a jumper the way tony parker did. If his teammates werent so good he'd just be another ok point guard who probably couldn't start for alot of teams because most teams dont have the shooters the celtics have to spread the floor.

MDD
01-19-2010, 03:32 AM
Rondo is the fourth best player on his team, I keep tell everbody that his success comes from playing with three foresure hall of famers. Garnett,Allen and Pierce are the focus points to allow Rondo to play the way he do take away the three then teams would make him have to shoot shots and free throws which he is terrible at to be a guard!

DoubleCs
01-19-2010, 03:40 AM
Rondo isn't even a top 10 point guard. He's a good defender but a better athlete so he should be an even better defender. Hes a decent passer and is quick with the ball but still has no jump shot. He'll never crack top 10 til he develops a jumper the way tony parker did. If his teammates werent so good he'd just be another ok point guard who probably couldn't start for alot of teams because most teams dont have the shooters the celtics have to spread the floor.
Back your argument up whos top 10?

johnwayne
01-19-2010, 09:22 PM
Ehh..Take Rondo out of it, and everything that was uniform falls apart. Rondo is the general/quarterback/leader on the team.

Rondo - General
Allen - Clutch
Pierce - Consistancy/Go-To
Garnett - Intensity/Heart/Confidence Boost
Perkins - Energetic Presence

That's basically how it looks like for the Celtic's.

one of the dumbest things i ever heard......minus the cavs,lakers and heat.....the pg is ALWAYS the floor general...ANY starting pg in the league could put up 16 and 10 for boston...when you have 3 future hall of famers playing on the same team, no other player should even be mentioned...his job is EASY! if nash,paul,harris,rose,kidd,ellis,parker,or billups traded places with rondo then they would "easily" get over 12 assists a game....ENOUGH WITH THE RONDO BULLSHITT, he has the best situation any nba player has ever known

NetsPaint
01-19-2010, 09:26 PM
This thread should get an honorary lockage.

johnwayne
01-19-2010, 09:44 PM
Back your argument up whos top 10?

1.chris paul
2.steve nash
3.tony parker
4.chauncey billups
5.derrick rose
6.devin harris
7.jason kidd
8.tyreke evans
9.russel westbrook
10.brandon jennings
11.baron davis
12.rajon rondo

dont trick yourself into beleiving that rondo is better than any of these players.....he might not even be 12 with flynn,felton,nelson,mo williams, and hinrich right on his ***

bagwell368
01-19-2010, 10:21 PM
How bout the Celtics trade away the big 3 and see how well Rondo does by himself...

idiotic since all good/great PG's need other players.

bagwell368
01-19-2010, 10:39 PM
I'm VERY curious how you calculated that.

He's 24, say he has 9 more years like the last two years (~29.7 through this year + 90 + 10 (for two crap 5 WS years late in his career)) would give him 129.7.

Guys with more Win Shares that are not HOF: Karl Malone, Artis Gilmore, Shaq, Miller, Garnett, Duncan, Payton, Dirk, Kobe

That would be #31 on the all time list, ahead of HOF'ers Barry, Ewing, Hayes, Wilkinds, Lanier, Gervin, Frazier, McHale, etc.

Call the stat crap all you like, it's a very convincing list no matter what side you are on in this debate.

He's got a ring, might score 1 more. Guy starts that early and gets good this fast, even if he isn't an ooh and ahh guy like Wade doesn't mean he can't collect stats, wins, ring(s), etc. He's already got six career triple doubles, how many point guards had more at his age?

kozelkid
01-19-2010, 10:56 PM
He's 24, say he has 9 more years like the last two years (~29.7 through this year + 90 + 10 (for two crap 5 WS years late in his career)) would give him 129.7.

Guys with more Win Shares that are not HOF: Karl Malone, Artis Gilmore, Shaq, Miller, Garnett, Duncan, Payton, Dirk, Kobe

That would be #31 on the all time list, ahead of HOF'ers Barry, Ewing, Hayes, Wilkinds, Lanier, Gervin, Frazier, McHale, etc.

Call the stat crap all you like, it's a very convincing list no matter what side you are on in this debate.

He's got a ring, might score 1 more. Guy starts that early and gets good this fast, even if he isn't an ooh and ahh guy like Wade doesn't mean he can't collect stats, wins, ring(s), etc. He's already got six career triple doubles, how many point guards had more at his age?

Fair enough. If you except him to continue at such pace, especially when the big 3 leave, I guess that's fair. Although, it's rather unrealistic.

bostncelts34
01-19-2010, 11:06 PM
1.chris paul
2.steve nash
3.tony parker
4.chauncey billups
5.derrick rose
6.devin harris
7.jason kidd
8.tyreke evans
9.russel westbrook
10.brandon jennings
11.baron davis
12.rajon rondo

dont trick yourself into beleiving that rondo is better than any of these players.....he might not even be 12 with flynn,felton,nelson,mo williams, and hinrich right on his ***


Might be the worst list, i have ever..and i mean..ever seen. Not to mention Rondo's placement, you didnt even put Deron on the list.

ntat
01-19-2010, 11:08 PM
ok, hes their 4th best player, r u happy? he is the grant hill of the celtics.

kozelkid
01-19-2010, 11:18 PM
Might be the worst list, i have ever..and i mean..ever seen. Not to mention Rondo's placement, you didnt even put Deron on the list.

:laugh:

gattaca
01-19-2010, 11:23 PM
No... Paul Pierce is.
Rondo is crucial to the team, but Piece is better without a doubt.

this.


Rondo is def playing in some shadows. Once the big 3 are gone, Rondo will get some all star votes and probably play in the game. His development is one of those keys to their winning that a lot of people don't notice. But PP is still better.

johnwayne
01-19-2010, 11:57 PM
Might be the worst list, i have ever..and i mean..ever seen. Not to mention Rondo's placement, you didnt even put Deron on the list.

you're right then that makes rondo 13th best pg in the league actually 14th if gilbert arenas comes back so how are you gonna be the best player on your team when you're not even top 13 at your position.....rondo is not that good just accept it

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Cool007
01-20-2010, 01:13 AM
I don't agree with Johnwayne and his list.

As for thread, Rondo is not the best player but he is as equally important to that team as Allen is.

KG is still their best player (if he is playing), when KG plays, their defense is THE BEST in the league and when he doesn't, Boston doesn't look as scary.

KG
Pierce
Rondo
Allen
Perkins

In that order.

Reversed86Curse
01-20-2010, 07:46 PM
1.chris paul
2.steve nash
3.tony parker
4.chauncey billups
5.derrick rose
6.devin harris
7.jason kidd
8.tyreke evans
9.russel westbrook
10.brandon jennings
11.baron davis
12.rajon rondo

dont trick yourself into beleiving that rondo is better than any of these players.....he might not even be 12 with flynn,felton,nelson,mo williams, and hinrich right on his ***

Wow, you don't watch much basketball do you?

Tyreke Evans and Jennings have better offense than Rondo, to this point, but that's it. Rose scores 5 pts a game more than Rondo, that's his only better stat. Devin Harris and Baron Davis? Really?

D Williams
Nash
Paul
Parker
Billups
Rondo
Kidd
Rose

Top 8, after that it doesn't matter

AIMelo=KillaDUO
01-20-2010, 08:02 PM
when PP, Allen, and KG are playin and you take away Rondo, C's still win ball games.

derekglasser
01-26-2010, 02:11 PM
Top 10
1. Deron Williams (plays best ALL-AROUND game as pg)
2. Chris Paul (can get to the basket whenever he wants)
3. Tony Parker (ditto)
4. Steve Nash (best offensive pg but severely lacks on d)
5. Chauncey Billiups (just flat-out effective)
6. Jameer Nelson (obviously when healthy but don't forget he's an all-star when healthy)
7. Derrick Rose (still has lot to grow but offensively is dynamite)
8. Russell Westbrook (plays great d AND has solid offensive game just doesn't look to pass enough)
9. Andre Miller (craftiest pg other than Nash, yes even more than Chauncey)
10. Tricky cuz it depends on who you count as a pg for instance Monta would deserve to be on this, maybe even Tyreke but I'll only list a pure pg so I won't have arguments so I could go with J-Kidd maybebut I'm going with one you guys are all overlooking and that's Aaron Brooks and those are the 10 best pg's in the league all of them ahead of Rondo and the Celtics themselves would only pick rondo over miller, brooks, and maybe, MAYBE jameer and that's only because of their system and defense. But they would take monta or tyreke over him.

cmellofan15
01-26-2010, 07:00 PM
Rondo's top 10 in all of the following categories:

Assists (3)
Steals (1)
SPG (1)
APG (3)
Assist % (3)
Steal % (1)
Defensive Rating (10)
Defensive Win Shares (7)

He's more than likely going to be All Defensive 1st Team, he shoots 53% from the field (only takes 11 shots a game which could be good or bad), has 6 triple doubles at the age of 24, and averaged 16.9 PPG/9.7 RPG/9.8 APG last year in the playoffs.

Players who average less than 20 PPG with Rondo guarding them:

Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose (only 14.8)
Jameer Nelson (only 12.8)
Tony Parker
Chauncey Billups
Mo Williams

Another interesting stat about all of them is that they at least average 2.5 TO's and none average 10 APG

alencp3
01-27-2010, 07:52 PM
At the moment he is.

TheWatcher34
01-27-2010, 08:27 PM
1.chris paul
2.steve nash
3.tony parker
4.chauncey billups
5.derrick rose
6.devin harris
7.jason kidd
8.tyreke evans
9.russel westbrook
10.brandon jennings
11.baron davis
12.rajon rondo

dont trick yourself into beleiving that rondo is better than any of these players.....he might not even be 12 with flynn,felton,nelson,mo williams, and hinrich right on his ***

:speechless: oh wow!
that same Rondo hater. i remember you from the other thread. your hate runs deep! :bang:

again it appears that you are not able to grasp the topic of the thread at all.
whats the point of your top 12 list? why would you go ahead and start comparing Rondo to other PGs.
what's the central idea if this thread??
look closely and read it out loud!!

td0tsfinest
01-27-2010, 08:39 PM
1.chris paul
2.steve nash
3.tony parker
4.chauncey billups
5.derrick rose
6.devin harris
7.jason kidd
8.tyreke evans
9.russel westbrook
10.brandon jennings
11.baron davis
12.rajon rondo

dont trick yourself into beleiving that rondo is better than any of these players.....he might not even be 12 with flynn,felton,nelson,mo williams, and hinrich right on his ***

Either you believe "the Chris Paul or Deron Williams" debate should not exist or you don't consider DWill a PG?