PDA

View Full Version : Can a player make another player better?



ldawg
01-14-2010, 08:02 AM
Kobe is a great player but he don't make players around him better. He said it him self, he laugh at the question a few months ago, said there is no way to make another player better. But Kobe is wrong, you can make players better. What i notice is about kobe is a 25ppg kobe is better than a 30ppg kobe. The 25ppg Kobe would allow Andrew, Odom and Artest be more involve in the game. This help the team overall play on both ends of the floor. You feel like part of the team and your hard work is rewarded. The 30ppg kobe don't pass the ball and begs for it when he don't. Team effort drops when you a force to be a spectator. Kobe in the post also hurt the chemistry of Pau and Drew he takes up thier space. Instead of helping his young center he tells him his time will come in the mean time enjoy the ride. So when the young fella run up and down the court lifeless he wonders why?

fredv
01-14-2010, 08:32 AM
see: Steve Nash & entire suns squad
see: Chris Paul & David West

xxseven72ducexx
01-14-2010, 08:55 AM
are you kidding? i wouldnt even bring kobes name up...if anything he makes other players worse...but besides nash and cp3 who were mentioned...the one player who makes EVERY1 better is LeBron James...before he came to the Cavs they were the worst team in the league. every year since theyve been contenders to go to the finals, i'm not gonna sit here and bring up every1s stats b4 and after lebrons arrival but you get the gist of what im saying...so yes one player can make another player better and that player is lebron "im comin to new york after this season" james...who will also make every1 on that team better and the knicks will finally be playoff and maybe even finals bound

bctgg27
01-14-2010, 09:06 AM
If you play with Jason Kidd, you become a better player. Mikki Moore, RJ, K-Mart, etc.

JasonJohnHorn
01-14-2010, 09:49 AM
There are a great number of examples. Is Kobe one? No. That's likely why he said it wasn't possible, because he so arrogant that he figures if he can't do it, nobody can. Kobe could make Bynum better (Kareem helped out with that) and Odom's numbers actually went down when he started playing with Kobe.

But who does make players better?
Kidd has, as stated above. Kenyon Martin never played as good as he did when Kidd was helming the point, and Kidd has done that with other players as well. Nash is the best example I can think of in the NBA today though. Joe Johnson was considered a wash before he played alongside Nash. Q. Richardson hasn't played as well as he did when he played with Nash, and the Suns themselves, losing Marbury (one all-star guard) for Nash (another all-star guard) went from lottery team to title contender in one season.

Tim Duncan does much the same for his teammates. Defences have to double him and even when he isn't touchign the ball the defence playing him close opens the floor up for shooters.

Kevin Garnett has also made people better by bring a defensive mindset to teams he's played for. Though Pierce was a solid defender before, the team as a whole was a little soft, but then when Garnett came, he lead by example and help the entrie team become top-tier dfensive players.

Magic also made people better. I think Bird did as well. I think coaches and their systems can make players better (Phil Jackson gets the most of of players as does Pop).

So yeah. Kobe doesn't make players better, otherwise players like Adam Morris and Luke Walton would reach their potential while playing with him. I'm not saying they are average or mediocore players because of Bryant, they already were those when they got to the Lakers, but a guy like Duncan can make a bench player on a lottery team (like Roger Mason) a starter on a title contender.

Whether on the baskerball court or in life, the people we interact with leave impressions on us, sometimes we come away from meeting somebody without much change, sometimes a change for the better, and sometimes a change for the worse, but we do effect and affect the people around us for better or for worse.

arkanian215
01-14-2010, 10:19 AM
If you play with Jason Kidd, you become a better player. Mikki Moore, RJ, K-Mart, etc.

that

madiaz3
01-14-2010, 10:26 AM
lol @ these responses.

he's right though. you can make them play better (make it easier for them) but you can't make them better players.

JIDsanity
01-14-2010, 10:27 AM
I said no. To me the coach does, he is responsible for making sure the line-ups on the floor "fit". That enables players like Nash, and Kidd to do work. So In a way I guess the answer is yes. Damnit I dont know, Im a Nets fan thats my excuse for all of this

Bucsfan
01-14-2010, 10:37 AM
I think certain players do, i think most of the time is point guards, at least on some teams, because they are kind of like the "quarterback" of the team

players like stockton,nash kidd etc, all helped make players around them better by feeding them the ball in good spots etc

Raph12
01-14-2010, 11:30 AM
Kobe makes Gasol better

masalex1205
01-14-2010, 11:43 AM
I said no. To me the coach does, he is responsible for making sure the line-ups on the floor "fit". That enables players like Nash, and Kidd to do work. So In a way I guess the answer is yes. Damnit I dont know, Im a Nets fan thats my excuse for all of this


No? Then sort of Yes?

Way to take a stand, great post

Gibby23
01-14-2010, 11:49 AM
Luke Walton makes the Lakers bench players better.

nipo10847
01-14-2010, 11:51 AM
Kobe makes Gasol better

How about it's other way around? Ask Kobe, he will tell you.

Slimsim
01-14-2010, 12:04 PM
Anderson Vareja LBJ made him a richer man.

Chronz
01-14-2010, 12:07 PM
see: Steve Nash & entire suns squad
see: Chris Paul & David West

huh?

FOBolous
01-14-2010, 12:08 PM
lol...Yao made the whole Houston organization better AND richer :p

Chronz
01-14-2010, 12:09 PM
There are a great number of examples. Is Kobe one? No. That's likely why he said it wasn't possible, because he so arrogant that he figures if he can't do it, nobody can. Kobe could make Bynum better (Kareem helped out with that) and Odom's numbers actually went down when he started playing with Kobe.

But who does make players better?
Kidd has, as stated above. Kenyon Martin never played as good as he did when Kidd was helming the point

Kmart played exactly the same without Kidd

Double_R
01-14-2010, 12:09 PM
this thread is stupid... Kobe does make every one on his team better by just being on the floor, whoever voted no is a ******.

Chronz
01-14-2010, 12:10 PM
You can compliment a players game and make EACHOTHER better, but I dont know of many players who are completely transformed without that player around. When I find them they are usually role players like Damon Jones or something.

faridk89
01-14-2010, 12:38 PM
i would love to bash the guy who started this forum but i have way to many warnings...do you actually watch sports or play sports? its like asking if i was a high school pg and had a 7 foot center on my team and gave him the ball and got an assist every play would my stats be boosted by this kid??!?! obviously lol delete this forum!!! and yes imma hater

faridk89
01-14-2010, 12:39 PM
this thread is stupid... Kobe does make every one on his team better by just being on the floor, whoever voted no is a ******.

+1 my opinion buy i dont want anymore warnings :)

fairandbalanced
01-14-2010, 12:41 PM
Steve Nash makes Frye better.

Hellcrooner
01-14-2010, 01:30 PM
usually what happens is that players become BOTH better by playing togheter like jordan and pippen and thomas/dumars stockton/malone and yeah Kobe/ Gasol you may nto want to hear it biut neither of them were able to pass first round leading their teams so is fair to say they make each other better.

JordansBulls
01-14-2010, 01:38 PM
usually what happens is that players become BOTH better by playing togheter like jordan and pippen and thomas/dumars stockton/malone and yeah Kobe/ Gasol you may nto want to hear it biut neither of them were able to pass first round leading their teams so is fair to say they make each other better.

Pippen allowed MJ to play off the ball making him better in that way.

However initially Pippen became great due to playing with Jordan, he even said so himself.

Source: GoogleBooks (http://books.google.com/books?id=aQ84ViBNkYwC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=Game+Michael+Jordan+broke+his+leg&source=web&ots=Y9Xtn3nomR&sig=6shSn2cklYKVP1kBaC6nI0A_oko&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA39,M1)



Pippen, unlike other Bulls who usually kept their distance from Jordan, tried to learn all he could from Jordan in practice. In turn, Jordan worked with Pippen on his moves, jump shot, and defense and taught him mental toughness.



Pippen relates on how his game improved - Link (http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/jordanhof_pippen_090910.html)


http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/jordanpippen_090910.jpg


“He was very competitive, so he went at me and that helped me learn,” said Pippen. “You continue to compete against the very best every day, and you will get better, or you’ll be embarrassed.”




“I went to a small school, so I had to be a jack of all trades and master a few,” said Pippen. “Defense was one thing I was really able to work at and get better.

“A lot of my instincts came from guarding Michael all the time in practice,” he added. “I had four other guys on my team, but I had schemes that I would throw out there depending on what he did. I’d say, ‘If I make Michael do this, then you go trap him.’ There were things I tried to do on defense to trigger him into a mistake. He was a great player, and if you couldn’t try it on him in practice, there was nowhere else to try it.”



Pippen realized himself that going against MJ is what made him better. And that is mainly due to work ethic.

Lakerfan In NY
01-14-2010, 01:47 PM
I don't think anyone can make gold from silver, but i think that some guys like nash, CP3, & KOBE! (Some of you are just Haters) etc, can make the game easier for their teammates. They aren't necessaryily better players, that star helps them get better looks & put them in a better position to score. In truth, no matter how good you are individually, your greatest is determined by your teammates & their ability to play close to your level.

PS. Kobe Bryant took a lottery team to a Championship team. Took a players that hadn't won a playoff game to two straight finals appearences & one championship. He took a bench full of second rounders & outcasts that (as some of you pointed out) wouldn't get a minute on another contending team & made them better than anyone believed ie Walton, sasha, Farmer. But i can see your point about him not making his team mates better...like 6 yrs & two trips to the final & one championship ago.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-14-2010, 01:55 PM
lol @ these responses.

he's right though. you can make them play better (make it easier for them) but you can't make them better players.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

exactly, he can make them look better, but then they are not better players

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-14-2010, 01:57 PM
Steve Nash makes Frye better.

no, he makes him look better

put Duhon on the suns and see what happens with Frye!

mlisica19
01-14-2010, 02:01 PM
Players can make other players better, playing with them everyday you learn new and better techniques. You can also create a chemistry with a player, also enhancing his stats and his play. Its like passing down wisdom when you talk 2 someone

tr4shb0t
01-14-2010, 02:11 PM
yes it is possible and Kobe does make the players around him better. many of the players he played with posted career highs when they got traded to the lakers. he has extremely high iq and he make the right plays when it matters. he leads by example, sets the tone, and his team respects him. you can't ask for much more.

btw i've seen an article comparing players stats playing with kobe vs without kobe and it doesn't help your argument. someone please post it if you have it.

cf267872
01-14-2010, 02:30 PM
This is a stupid thread, but quite simply YES. As a couple of you guys mentioned, a perfect example could be Nash. I really don't think A'mare or Marion would be where they are at now without havinig Nash boost their stats. I also think that Kendrick Perkins in BOS has benefited greatly from being on the same floor as Rondo, Jesus, Pierce and KG.

I just don't know why this thread was started. Have you ever played any sports at all? Athletes with a higher skill set in any sport usually have a good effect n their teammates. Sorry for hating, just my opinion.

Lakersfan2483
01-14-2010, 02:32 PM
Kobe is a great player but he don't make players around him better. He said it him self, he laugh at the question a few months ago, said there is no way to make another player better. But Kobe is wrong, you can make players better. What i notice is about kobe is a 25ppg kobe is better than a 30ppg kobe. The 25ppg Kobe would allow Andrew, Odom and Artest be more involve in the game. This help the team overall play on both ends of the floor. You feel like part of the team and your hard work is rewarded. The 30ppg kobe don't pass the ball and begs for it when he don't. Team effort drops when you a force to be a spectator. Kobe in the post also hurt the chemistry of Pau and Drew he takes up thier space. Instead of helping his young center he tells him his time will come in the mean time enjoy the ride. So when the young fella run up and down the court lifeless he wonders why?

Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Pau Gasol, Odom, etc.. have all been record stating how much better they have become since playing and learning from Kobe. Every time you start a thread it pertains to Kobe and or the Lakers needing to make a trade just because they lost a game. Stop with the nonsense and stop trolling in the Lakers' forum also.

Lakersfan2483
01-14-2010, 02:34 PM
I don't think anyone can make gold from silver, but i think that some guys like nash, CP3, & KOBE! (Some of you are just Haters) etc, can make the game easier for their teammates. They aren't necessaryily better players, that star helps them get better looks & put them in a better position to score. In truth, no matter how good you are individually, your greatest is determined by your teammates & their ability to play close to your level.

PS. Kobe Bryant took a lottery team to a Championship team. Took a players that hadn't won a playoff game to two straight finals appearences & one championship. He took a bench full of second rounders & outcasts that (as some of you pointed out) wouldn't get a minute on another contending team & made them better than anyone believed ie Walton, sasha, Farmer. But i can see your point about him not making his team mates better...like 6 yrs & two trips to the final & one championship ago.

:clap:

TopsyTurvy
01-14-2010, 02:40 PM
Pippen relates on how his game improved - Link (http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/jordanhof_pippen_090910.html)


Seconded.

Whether or not a player has improved has nothing to do with statistics of a team based game - you can't use 'on the court' stats to support or rebuke anything in this case. I find it incredibly hard to believe that Kobe would not improve a player based upon his work ethic, the skills he brings to practice (one of the all time great players), his basketball smarts, and any other life altering insights. Anyone who has worked as a professional in any field can liken the experience to working with a consummate expert.

In comparison, Jordan brought tenacity and the will of a champion to the Bulls throughout their stretch and every player on the team said as much at one time or another.

Mrphilly
01-14-2010, 02:46 PM
It is impossible to make another player better!!! J. Kidd, Nash, Kobe makes the game easier for their teammates, so they LOOK better. People are contradicticing(spelling) themselves by saying" kidd made k-mart better" then they say "K-mart has yet to play as well as he did with kid". That means he is not better!!!

If you make your teammate better, that means he no longer needs you to be productive. If I am only good when you are on the court, I am not better, you just make me LOOK better.

Cp3 doesn't make D. West's jumper from the key drop consistently.

CP3 didnt teach Tyson Chandler how to dunk. He just created more oppertunitities.

In closing, LOOKING BETTER IS DIFFERENT FROM ACTUALLYING BEING BETTER.

wifflegod
01-14-2010, 03:02 PM
Canseco made Mcguire better by injecting him. Does that count?

Hawkeye15
01-14-2010, 03:08 PM
sure there are players who make others better. +

Carey
01-14-2010, 03:14 PM
lol @ these responses.

he's right though. you can make them play better (make it easier for them) but you can't make them better players.

Exactly

Chronz
01-14-2010, 03:25 PM
Seconded.

Whether or not a player has improved has nothing to do with statistics of a team based game - you can't use 'on the court' stats to support or rebuke anything in this case.
I disagree, a players past and future performance with and without that player MUST be taken into account.


I find it incredibly hard to believe that Kobe would not improve a player based upon his work ethic, the skills he brings to practice (one of the all time great players), his basketball smarts, and any other life altering insights. Anyone who has worked as a professional in any field can liken the experience to working with a consummate expert.
Well then thats not making them better, thats inspiring others to better themselves. Being around Kobe can be both an asset and a detriment to a teammates confidence, its all dependent on how the personalities mesh/clash. Kobe is going to be himself, what inspires one of his teammates to follow in his footsteps or rebelling and shunning Kobe is his own decision.


In comparison, Jordan brought tenacity and the will of a champion to the Bulls throughout their stretch and every player on the team said as much at one time or another.
That attitude didnt work on all his teammates, so do we blame MJ for killing careers the same way we want to credit him for Pippen having the guts to challenge him?

To me its simple, who do you think MJ did more to help his game, Pippen or Kerr? Pippen always had the talent, he may not have reached his potential without MJ but he wouldve been a great NBA player. Kerr on the other hand saw his play dramatically suffer when he didnt have a player on the team to draw in double teams. This is an example of statistics alluding to the idea that hes benefitting from his teammates presence. To me thats a better measurement of one player making another better, sure Kerr has those shooting skills, its just hes able to put them to use because he has someone to create the look for him.

Chronz
01-14-2010, 03:27 PM
It is impossible to make another player better!!! J. Kidd, Nash, Kobe makes the game easier for their teammates, so they LOOK better. People are contradicticing(spelling) themselves by saying" kidd made k-mart better" then they say "K-mart has yet to play as well as he did with kid". That means he is not better!!!

If you make your teammate better, that means he no longer needs you to be productive. If I am only good when you are on the court, I am not better, you just make me LOOK better.

Cp3 doesn't make D. West's jumper from the key drop consistently.

CP3 did teach Tyson Chandler how to dunk.

In closing, LOOKING BETTER IS DIFFERENT FROM ACTUALLYING BEING BETTER.
Thats an interesting take, I just think they make eachother better

Thatruth32
01-14-2010, 03:35 PM
i hit no but i ment to hit yes lol... what a dumb question i normally dont get mad at people but this has to be the worst question ive seen on this board

Bivory
01-14-2010, 03:52 PM
yes

Chronz
01-14-2010, 03:58 PM
i hit no but i ment to hit yes lol... what a dumb question i normally dont get mad at people but this has to be the worst question ive seen on this board

Whys that?

Icebox922
01-14-2010, 07:46 PM
THE ANSWER IS : YES


Look at Pippen .. 50 greatest players of all time *WOW*

and its all because of WE KNOW WHO :clap:

MDfootball36
01-14-2010, 08:02 PM
if you play with chris duhon he makes it seems like you are better then you are

kblo247
01-14-2010, 08:10 PM
THE ANSWER IS : YES


Look at Pippen .. 50 greatest players of all time *WOW*

and its all because of WE KNOW WHO :clap:

Yep, too bad MJ never had a winning season w/o Pippen on his team :p

At the end of the day you can help a guy and encourage them, but you can't put the ball in the bucket for them.

willsayanything
01-14-2010, 08:15 PM
Good post, good question.

What does "better" mean=bad question. It is and will always be a team sport and a player can make his team and individual teammates better.

Nash. Imagine Bynum or Beidrins with the Suns.

Paul. Did you happen to see the rookie sophomore challenge when he made M. Ellis and D. Lee unstoppable?

LeBron. Cleveland is not a playoff team without him. (BTW--LeBron, even if he was on the Clippers he'd be a god and would not get injured.)

Malone and Stockton

anpmp
01-14-2010, 08:23 PM
How come Steve Nash cannot make Shaq better? Isn't Nash supposed to be one of the best at the skill of "making teammates better"? Lebron seems to be doing a better job of playing alongside Shaq.

Or how come Kwame Brown and Smush Parker had their best offensive playing years while with Kobe. Maybe Kobe didn't really make them better. Perhaps, they learnt by themselves how to play just after joining LA and then forgot how to play after leaving LA (i.e. Kobe had nothing to do with their improved games while playing for the Lakers).

_KB24_
01-14-2010, 08:23 PM
Good post, good question.

What does "better" mean=bad question. It is and will always be a team sport and a player can make his team and individual teammates better.

Nash. Imagine Bynum or Beidrins with the Suns.

Paul. Did you happen to see the rookie sophomore challenge when he made M. Ellis and D. Lee unstoppable?

LeBron. Cleveland is not a playoff team without him. (BTW--LeBron, even if he was on the Clippers he'd be a god and would not get injured.)

Malone and Stockton

Firstly, Nash and Bynum would be horrible together. Bynum is a half-court guy who takes his time down on the block, similar to Shaq. We all know how great of a tandem Shaq and Nash turned out to be. Amare is the ideal compliment for Nash.

Now for the bold, you have got to be joking right?

runforrestrunx9
01-14-2010, 08:42 PM
yes... ovviously... how would dudley be doin w/out nash??

JordansBulls
01-14-2010, 08:45 PM
How come Steve Nash cannot make Shaq better? .

Because he is old.

Its like saying why can't a trainer make a guy run faster at 37 years old vs when he was 28 years old?

Verbal Christ
01-14-2010, 08:52 PM
seems like jason kidd sure has gotten a bunch of scrubs some good money

C_A_S_H
01-14-2010, 09:00 PM
Yes
Jason Kidd Made His 2002 Teamates
Look like allstars

bagwell368
01-15-2010, 12:35 AM
Two kinds of players come to mind at once.

#1. defensively great big men. Hakeem, KG, Gilmore, Russell, etc. Allow other players to take more risks on D, because the big eraser is sitting inside.

#2. unselfish guys that can pass, shoot, and drive. Point guard has been mentioned (Magic, Stockton, etc.), and also Bird, Havlicek type point forwards

KOBE_VS_EVERY1
01-15-2010, 02:26 AM
Kobe is a great player but he don't make players around him better. He said it him self, he laugh at the question a few months ago, said there is no way to make another player better. But Kobe is wrong, you can make players better. What i notice is about kobe is a 25ppg kobe is better than a 30ppg kobe. The 25ppg Kobe would allow Andrew, Odom and Artest be more involve in the game. This help the team overall play on both ends of the floor. You feel like part of the team and your hard work is rewarded. The 30ppg kobe don't pass the ball and begs for it when he don't. Team effort drops when you a force to be a spectator. Kobe in the post also hurt the chemistry of Pau and Drew he takes up thier space. Instead of helping his young center he tells him his time will come in the mean time enjoy the ride. So when the young fella run up and down the court lifeless he wonders why?

Good question...

Kobe says there is no way to make a player better for a few reasons:

He gives more credit to his team for getting better... With dedication and hard work players get better. Kobe doesnt practice free throws for Andrew Bynum. He doesnt practice 3's for Shannon Brown. They need to put the work in themselves to get better.

Now some players may not play well with some and better with others because of style of play or different strengths and weaknesses. its up to the GM/coach to put a team together that should play well together and win a championship.

Its very hard to judge and compare players by stats because stats can be very misleading. Every player has a different role on their team and every team has different style of play. So to say Lebron or anybody is a better teammate because they average a couple more assist or rebounds per game is false. When the lakers are at full strength, they are probably the best passing team in the league. When Kobe has a game with around 10 assist, its usually because the other players made shots not kobe passing way more. As for rebounding, the lakers are also one of the best rebounding teams. They have 3 players (Bynum/Gasol/Odom) that will avg around 10 reb per game... Kobe isnt needed to grab a few more rebounds. Bottom line... It's all about winning championships. Kobe does whats needed to win. The Lakers on last year, so he's doing something right.

Shlumpledink
01-15-2010, 05:51 AM
a player can instill confidence. Make you pick up your intensity. Make you feel comfortable. Training with a player in the offseason is the most you can do for them. Passing the ball to them a lot isn't going to make them better.

Mrphilly
01-15-2010, 08:01 AM
seems like jason kidd sure has gotten a bunch of scrubs some good money
He sure did, but at the end of the day, they are still scrubs. If he made them better, they would be stars right now. So he didn't make them better.

This league is filled with a bunch of bums signed to bad contracts, because a kobe, nash kidd or lebron made it appear that this could was good. Then this player proves he is still a bum and didn't get any better at all.

urnuttynut
01-15-2010, 09:08 AM
So yeah. Kobe doesn't make players better, otherwise players like Adam Morris and Luke Walton would reach their potential while playing with him.

The two most explosive guys in basketball are being held back by kobe.

Sox Appeal
01-15-2010, 09:10 AM
Kobe makes Gasol better

How so? Gasol was the same player he was for years in Memphis, the only difference is, he plays in a bigger market now, so he gets more attention.


THE ANSWER IS : YES


Look at Pippen .. 50 greatest players of all time *WOW*

and its all because of WE KNOW WHO

So the only reason Scottie became a great player, was because Jordan turned him into one? I highly doubt that. I'm sure Jordan effected his game, but Pippen is arguably the greatest perimeter defender that's ever lived.

illegallover
01-15-2010, 09:35 AM
wiki so could be false

Michael Jordan retired before the 1994 season, and in his absence Pippen emerged from Jordan's shadow. That year, he earned All-Star Game MVP honors and led the Bulls in scoring, assists, and the entire league in steals, averaging 22.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.9 steals, 1.9 three-pointers, and 0.8 blocks per game, while shooting 49.1% from the field and a career-best 32% from the three-point line. For his efforts, he earned the first of three straight All-NBA First Team nods, and finished third in the MVP voting. The Bulls finished the season with 55 wins, only two less than the year before.

Hellcrooner
01-15-2010, 11:12 AM
^and were deprived of getting to conference finals by a bad call against knicks.

C_Mund
01-15-2010, 01:03 PM
There are a great number of examples. Is Kobe one? No. That's likely why he said it wasn't possible, because he so arrogant that he figures if he can't do it, nobody can. Kobe could make Bynum better (Kareem helped out with that) and Odom's numbers actually went down when he started playing with Kobe.

But who does make players better?
Kidd has, as stated above. Kenyon Martin never played as good as he did when Kidd was helming the point, and Kidd has done that with other players as well. Nash is the best example I can think of in the NBA today though. Joe Johnson was considered a wash before he played alongside Nash. Q. Richardson hasn't played as well as he did when he played with Nash, and the Suns themselves, losing Marbury (one all-star guard) for Nash (another all-star guard) went from lottery team to title contender in one season.

Tim Duncan does much the same for his teammates. Defences have to double him and even when he isn't touchign the ball the defence playing him close opens the floor up for shooters.

Kevin Garnett has also made people better by bring a defensive mindset to teams he's played for. Though Pierce was a solid defender before, the team as a whole was a little soft, but then when Garnett came, he lead by example and help the entrie team become top-tier dfensive players.

Magic also made people better. I think Bird did as well. I think coaches and their systems can make players better (Phil Jackson gets the most of of players as does Pop).

So yeah. Kobe doesn't make players better, otherwise players like Adam Morris and Luke Walton would reach their potential while playing with him. I'm not saying they are average or mediocore players because of Bryant, they already were those when they got to the Lakers, but a guy like Duncan can make a bench player on a lottery team (like Roger Mason) a starter on a title contender.

Whether on the baskerball court or in life, the people we interact with leave impressions on us, sometimes we come away from meeting somebody without much change, sometimes a change for the better, and sometimes a change for the worse, but we do effect and affect the people around us for better or for worse.

I agree with most of what you said...I just have to defend my man. K-Mart was a first-overall pick even after missing his final year of college with a broken leg for a reason...and even after microfracture and tons of other surgeries he's still playing like a beast, just not the offensive digits he used to drop.

Vinny642
01-15-2010, 05:21 PM
This is a bad thread, Yes people can make others better.

CP made West, Chandler, Butler, Devin Brown better. ;)

ldawg
01-15-2010, 11:45 PM
This is a bad thread, Yes people can make others better.

CP made West, Chandler, Butler, Devin Brown better. ;)

Its a bad thread but yet you disagree with kobe.:facepalm:

heathonater
01-16-2010, 01:58 AM
jordan made pippen better, shaq made kobe better in the early days, and kobe has made pau a better player. of course certain players can make good players even better.

ldawg
01-16-2010, 03:34 AM
Why is it hard for kobe to play like this every night? This is team ball and how you make players around you better. It make the team better and makes life easy for him. Help them help you. Hes a great player let them play to thier strength and pick his spots in the flow of the game. No need to be in the post when they have two 7 footers a 6'10" skill 6th man and a rugged Artest it takes them out thier game while he pad his stats. When everyone plays the game its much more fun for everyone it keeps them interested in the game. They would love playing with him a whole lot more. In result he will get hustle plays and better team defence out of them. Making a player better while they play with him does not mean he will turn them into an all-stars. Its how well he mesh with them, complement each other without hinder making the game easy for each other. Chemistry is the only way this team would reach its full potential. Not the i must shoot Kobe thats easy to defend the balance attack is a much more dangerous. The i must shoot kobe also won't get the same level of energy because they don't feel part of the game. There will be nights when he has to do a little more but still don't forget them. If they look good he looks good. So he should not be mad if the hot man aint him, reward that man even if he is not first option, ride him, let him build his confidence. So the next time a man is 8 for 8 and you are 1 for 14 stop jacking.

Bullsfan22
01-16-2010, 10:20 AM
Why is it hard for kobe to play like this every night? This is team ball and how you make players around you better. It make the team better and makes life easy for him. Help them help you. Hes a great player let them play to thier strength and pick his spots in the flow of the game. No need to be in the post when they have two 7 footers a 6'10" skill 6th man and a rugged Artest it takes them out thier game while he pad his stats. When everyone plays the game its much more fun for everyone it keeps them interested in the game. They would love playing with him a whole lot more. In result he will get hustle plays and better team defence out of them. Making a player better while they play with him does not mean he will turn them into an all-stars. Its how well he mesh with them, complement each other without hinder making the game easy for each other. Chemistry is the only way this team would reach its full potential. Not the i must shoot Kobe thats easy to defend the balance attack is a much more dangerous. The i must shoot kobe also won't get the same level of energy because they don't feel part of the game. There will be nights when he has to do a little more but still don't forget them. If they look good he looks good. So he should not be mad if the hot man aint him, reward that man even if he is not first option, ride him, let him build his confidence. So the next time a man is 8 for 8 and you are 1 for 14 stop jacking.

kobe has never made a player better, he has always had a me first attitude and always will be.

ldawg
01-16-2010, 02:46 PM
kobe has never made a player better, he has always had a me first attitude and always will be.

lets see how long it last my guess is 2 weeks tops

MJ-BULLS
01-16-2010, 02:52 PM
no brainer, of course just look at cp3, nash, and kidd

Seattlesports
01-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Kobe makes Gasol better

Its the other way around

Kobe lost in the 1st round by himself

Hellcrooner
01-16-2010, 03:42 PM
kobe and gasol make EACH OTHER better.

Shady66
01-16-2010, 03:53 PM
How are u guys saying nash didnt make shaq better :facepalm: he had best stats in years, and i beleive had a career high fg%. If u watched suns last year, almost all of his points were set up by nash.

And some of you dont agree that kobe makes his teammates better, but he does. He does it in a different way than nash and paul though. He draws so much attention that other peoples on ihs team get better looks.

nipo10847
01-16-2010, 04:01 PM
Kobe is a great player but he don't make players around him better. He said it him self, he laugh at the question a few months ago, said there is no way to make another player better. But Kobe is wrong, you can make players better. What i notice is about kobe is a 25ppg kobe is better than a 30ppg kobe. The 25ppg Kobe would allow Andrew, Odom and Artest be more involve in the game. This help the team overall play on both ends of the floor. You feel like part of the team and your hard work is rewarded. The 30ppg kobe don't pass the ball and begs for it when he don't. Team effort drops when you a force to be a spectator. Kobe in the post also hurt the chemistry of Pau and Drew he takes up thier space. Instead of helping his young center he tells him his time will come in the mean time enjoy the ride. So when the young fella run up and down the court lifeless he wonders why?

Yes, if u watch cleveland cavaliers, u can see that in every game. but u watch the lakers, u would believe otherwise tho.

wmudford
01-16-2010, 04:45 PM
How come Steve Nash cannot make Shaq better? Isn't Nash supposed to be one of the best at the skill of "making teammates better"? Lebron seems to be doing a better job of playing alongside Shaq.

Or how come Kwame Brown and Smush Parker had their best offensive playing years while with Kobe. Maybe Kobe didn't really make them better. Perhaps, they learnt by themselves how to play just after joining LA and then forgot how to play after leaving LA (i.e. Kobe had nothing to do with their improved games while playing for the Lakers).

Are you on drugs?? Look at his stats this year compared to lasts. He had the best fg percentage of his career last season an 61% and this year is his worst BY FAR at 52.5%. It might be smart to do some research first

Vinny642
01-16-2010, 05:20 PM
Its a bad thread but yet you disagree with kobe.:facepalm:

EPIC FAIL on your facepalm man because you didn't give a reason why I am wrong. Its my opinion, Kobe may be great at alot of things but this is not one of those.

td0tsfinest
01-16-2010, 05:25 PM
Mikki Moore got a big contract with the Kings because of Jason Kidd.

Anderson Varejao and Sasha Pavalivic were given such high praises during their run to the finals; because of Lebron

Damon Jones was lights out from the 3pt line in Miami because of Shaq.

Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Kevin Garnett. All examples of players who make those around them better.

ldawg
01-16-2010, 10:52 PM
EPIC FAIL on your facepalm man because you didn't give a reason why I am wrong. Its my opinion, Kobe may be great at alot of things but this is not one of those.:confused: Read the thread again and review your response.

SeoulBeatz
01-16-2010, 11:25 PM
Chris Paul and David West come to mind.

sometimes its all about the right combination.

Ray Allen couldnt get it done by himself
Neither could KG
nor Pierce

put em all together and its domination.

its all about finding the right pieces.

Lakersfan2483
01-17-2010, 01:09 AM
kobe has never made a player better, he has always had a me first attitude and always will be.

Yet Kobe has 4 titles, an MVP, a finals mvp, a gold medal, 6 finals appearances and most of his teammates(Gasol, Odom, Fish, Horry, Ariza, Caron Butler, etc. are all on record stating how Kobe has made them better players) have credited him for making them better because of the standard and leadership he sets/provides during practices and in game situations. Go figure huh?

kblo247
01-17-2010, 01:22 AM
Mikki Moore got a big contract with the Kings because of Jason Kidd.

Anderson Varejao and Sasha Pavalivic were given such high praises during their run to the finals; because of Lebron

Damon Jones was lights out from the 3pt line in Miami because of Shaq.

Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Kevin Garnett. All examples of players who make those around them better.

If we were going to use getting paid as the criteria.

Madsen got the MLE from Minny due to Kobe as Shaq sat out a good portion of that year and he filled in for him.

Smush tricked Miami into think he was their starting PG after Kobe.

Ariza got paid and gets to chuck shots daily now after playing with him in Houston.

Gasol won his first playoff game ever with Kobe.

Lamar shot the highest percentages of his career in LA.

Mihm had his best averages as a Laker.

Butler first became a scorer next to Kobe with Lamar hurt and admits that Kobe spent everyday working with him.

George went to Dallas under the guise of being their lockdown wing and shooter after his play in LA.

Cook fooled Mitch into giving him 10.5mil off of running pick and pops with Kobe.

Mo Evans first showed that he could put the ball in the bucket with regularity in 07 next to Kobe and got a starter's role in Orlando because of it.

Atkins and Radmanovic both shot the best 3 point percentages of their careers playing with him because of the defenders he occupied.

Fisher's best numbers all come with Kobe and his best all around season (07-08) was with just Kobe as option A.

Shaq, as great as he was never won before Kobe developed despite having all stars in Penny Hardaway, Glen Rice, Nick Van Exel, or Eddie Jones. He also to this day after playing with Nash, Amare, and Wade admits that no one got him the ball like Kobe would do or could throw a knockout punch to teams like he did during their run together.

Melo, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Deron, and Paul last season all had the best seasons of their careers after spending a summer with him. Hell they all gave him credit for setting an example of what it takes to be your very best and win.

PLAYERS FAN
01-17-2010, 02:21 AM
I never thought a player can make another player better. It must be self motivation to be better.

Sharkaac
01-17-2010, 02:53 AM
Chauncey Billups and Richard Hamilton

NYKnicks4511
01-17-2010, 03:58 AM
Favorite quote of all time:

"Now how the hell can I make my teammates better?! ..."
-Allen Iverson

Ray_R
01-17-2010, 04:06 AM
Chauncy Billups does. he Left Detroit and :down:

salimstoudamire
01-17-2010, 04:31 AM
Another Kobe hate thread. Its amazing how many people get on this guys *** about this. Meanwhile he will once again lead his team to another championship this year.

JiffyMix88
01-17-2010, 04:34 AM
Does water help make plants grow?

DoubleCs
01-17-2010, 06:17 AM
Ray Allen made Michael Redd
Chauncey Billups helped Carmelo Anthony
The big 3 made Rondo and Perkins
Dwayne Wade is making Mario Chalmers
Kareem Abdul Jabar helped bynum.
A player can be a coach a mentor if he helps another player reach his potential then yes he made him better.

Kakaroach
01-17-2010, 10:58 AM
Deron Williams has pretty much made everybody on the Jazz better.

Vinny642
01-17-2010, 07:16 PM
Chris Paul is the best player in the NBA at making his teammates better.