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View Full Version : Does andrea bargnani make the all star team as a backup?



Dogers101
01-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Im not asking as a starter, just as a backup.

TheWatcher34
01-11-2010, 02:22 PM
who? never heard of that guy or girl.... ;)

bctgg27
01-11-2010, 02:22 PM
I don't think so. They are a few big men that should be ahead of him. Brook Lopez and Al Horford to name a couple.

TheWatcher34
01-11-2010, 02:22 PM
Andrea is wearing Armani? oooohkk

uncleben989
01-11-2010, 02:26 PM
I don't think so. They are a few big men that should be ahead of him. Brook Lopez and Al Horford to name a couple.

al horford is the best choice, i would say bargs is second...no way does ne part of a 3-34 team make it to the all-star game (brook lopez, though he is sick)

Ray_R
01-11-2010, 02:30 PM
AL Harford Brook Lopez And Joakim Noah in That Order Over Barg

TheWatcher34
01-11-2010, 02:31 PM
Armani bargain shopping? where is the thread where i can make fun of player's names?
now Horford deserves to be voted in, he's playing great ball and is still young...Lopez is talented but the Nets just suck so they should not have an All-Star this year

Chronz
01-11-2010, 02:34 PM
Not even close

bigsams50
01-11-2010, 02:34 PM
No way

uncleben989
01-11-2010, 02:38 PM
Not even close

why not even close? u obviously dont know his numbers:facepalm: im not saying hell get in, but to say not even close is dumb

Dee_Edge
01-11-2010, 02:42 PM
Nope

Cubsfan365
01-11-2010, 02:53 PM
Joakim Noah is also on the bubble, but ahead of Bargnani.

spreadeagle
01-11-2010, 03:04 PM
Maybe not,But if Bosh leaves He will damn sure make it next year.

bctgg27
01-11-2010, 03:05 PM
I think Brook gets in as the only bright spot of a poor record. But with Yi back, and Brook's numbers going down, he may not get in now.

spreadeagle
01-11-2010, 03:07 PM
Joakim Noah is also on the bubble, but ahead of Bargnani.

When your shot is as ugly as Noah's you shouldnt be allowed to make it.Call it the "Shawn Marion" rule

Cubsfan365
01-11-2010, 03:08 PM
When your shot is as ugly as Noah's you shouldnt be allowed to make it.Call it the "Shawn Marion" rule
Haha, it's actually gotten better believe it or not

LanceUpperCut
01-11-2010, 03:18 PM
Not even close

I love your hatered for Bargnani I don't think he will make it cause Horford does deserve it more but there is no denying he has been playing awesome lately getting big buckets in the 4th and playing awesome defence against some top big men. Try to have an open mind whether it means your past judgments on him were wrong or not, it takes a big man to admit there wrong which is hard to come by in PSD.

Chronz
01-11-2010, 03:30 PM
I stand by my initial statement

Like its not even in question there are far more deserving individuals and far too many on Bargs platform for him to separate himself enough to merit the creation of this thread. Hes simply not that special, to say he is, is to diminish the greatness of other players.

Its simple, there is absolute ZERO possibility that he makes the team, I KNOW how these politics work, whether they are right or not is irrelevant here because hes not deserving anyways, but even if he were with the record they have, no coach will give this team 2 all-stars. Atleast not when the separation in production value vs his peer group isnt emphatic enough. Then again if it were, the Raps wouldnt be a .500 team.

Eagles4Lyfe
01-11-2010, 03:37 PM
Joakim Noah is also on the bubble, but ahead of Bargnani.


AL Harford Brook Lopez And Joakim Noah in That Order Over Barg

ya coming from bulls fans LMAO what more do you expect..Bargnani is better than any big man on your team, a first pick finally learning his way around..He is hard to handle offensively and defensively hes tremendously improving..No one but bulls fans would only say this..

smith&wesson
01-11-2010, 03:45 PM
He is the best offensive centre in the eastern conference. he should have some kind of chance.

LanceUpperCut
01-11-2010, 03:45 PM
I stand by my initial statement

Like its not even in question there are far more deserving individuals and far too many on Bargs platform for him to separate himself enough to merit the creation of this thread. Hes simply not that special, to say he is, is to diminish the greatness of other players.

Its simple, there is absolute ZERO possibility that he makes the team, I KNOW how these politics work, whether they are right or not is irrelevant here because hes not deserving anyways, but even if he were with the record they have, no coach will give this team 2 all-stars. Atleast not when the separation in production value vs his peer group isnt emphatic enough. Then again if it were, the Raps wouldnt be a .500 team.

You make some good points like the Raps don't deserve 2 players in the all-star game but by the time the all-star game happens they could be well deserving. All I know is Andrea has such a bad rap on this forum other than the fans who actually watch him play, the same crap about his defense just does'nt imply now like it did in his 2nd year which people can't get past. Like I said people are just not open minded they think they know somthing and no matter what a player does they won't change it. He does need to improve on his rebounding but he does'nt play the block if there was no CB4 he would easily average 3-4 more boards a game. And great players in the All-star game come on theres no great centers in the east except for Dwight and of course Shaq was great but come on, I remeber Antonio Davis made the all-star squad years ago.

pebloemer
01-11-2010, 03:46 PM
Bargnani is not there yet.

I'd love to see Horford get the reserve C position.

David Lee I'd put over Bargs too.

Bargs and Lopez have decent stats, but Lopez shouldn't go because of Nets record and I don't see two Raptor's making it either.

Chronz
01-11-2010, 03:46 PM
He is the best offensive centre in the eastern conference. he should have some kind of chance.

Offense+Defense+Rebounding = Summation of a players stats

He doesnt stand a chance

KayNti
01-11-2010, 03:49 PM
Shaq's in by him being Shaq... The oder I have for Centers in the East: Dwight, Horford, Bargs, Shaq, Brook, Bogut, Noah, Perk

Chronz
01-11-2010, 03:50 PM
You make some good points like the Raps don't deserve 2 players in the all-star game but by the time the all-star game happens they could be well deserving. All I know is Andrea has such a bad rap on this forum other than the fans who actually watch him play, the same crap about his defense just does'nt imply now like it did in his 2nd year which people can't get past. Like I said people are just not open minded they think they know somthing and no matter what a player does they won't change it. He does need to improve on his rebounding but he does'nt play the block if there was no CB4 he would easily average 3-4 more boards a game. And great player come on theres no great centers in the east except for Dwight and of course Shaq was great but come on.
Where do you get these figures from? For someone whos trying to portray himself as an objective observer, you should be able to justify this response with something substantial.

You dont have to play on the block to be a great rebounder, just ask Dirk. Remember defensively, everyones role is to block out or track the rebound, there is no excuse for such a pitiful showing other than lack of skill. There are alot of great players, the term great is relative, greater players is what I shouldve said.

His man 2 man D has gotten better, his improved muscle mass has helped, other than that I still see the same apathetic team defender Ive always seen.

As for Antonio, he probably wouldnt make it nowadays either, but hed have a better case than Bargs.

smith&wesson
01-11-2010, 03:55 PM
I stand by my initial statement

Like its not even in question there are far more deserving individuals and far too many on Bargs platform for him to separate himself enough to merit the creation of this thread. Hes simply not that special, to say he is, is to diminish the greatness of other players.

Its simple, there is absolute ZERO possibility that he makes the team, I KNOW how these politics work, whether they are right or not is irrelevant here because hes not deserving anyways, but even if he were with the record they have, no coach will give this team 2 all-stars. Atleast not when the separation in production value vs his peer group isnt emphatic enough. Then again if it were, the Raps wouldnt be a .500 team.


First of all, bargs is special in the sence that you dont see too many centres in the league with his skill set. that alone makes him stand out.

2ndly your asuming that the raps will be a 500 club by the end of the season. alot can change ine 5 games for good or bad. also the other centres alot of people are mentioning lopez.noah are both on sub par 500 teams. the only centre i really think is worth argueing is al horford. but johnson and josh smith would be voted in the all start team from the hawks before horford. bargs is the 2nd leading scorer on the raps at this point. i wouldnt completly count him out.

magichatnumber9
01-11-2010, 03:57 PM
AB is playing well enough in my book to be a backup in the allstar game. Dude is good, and his shot is not ugly.

greg_ory_2005
01-11-2010, 03:59 PM
I doubt he gets in.

KG, CB4, D12 are in for sure.

Then there's Lopez, Lee, Horford, J-Smoove, Shaq who also have a chance. That and I doubt the Raptors get 2 all stars, instead of a team like the Hawks.

mjqusoldier
01-11-2010, 04:08 PM
nope because david lee, brook lopez, al horford are all better

pebloemer
01-11-2010, 04:18 PM
First of all, bargs is special in the sence that you dont see too many centres in the league with his skill set. that alone makes him stand out.

2ndly your asuming that the raps will be a 500 club by the end of the season. alot can change ine 5 games for good or bad. also the other centres alot of people are mentioning lopez.noah are both on sub par 500 teams. the only centre i really think is worth argueing is al horford. but johnson and josh smith would be voted in the all start team from the hawks before horford. bargs is the 2nd leading scorer on the raps at this point. i wouldnt completly count him out.

All star game votes would look at our record before the all-star game. They can't predict where any team will be at the end of the season.

Josh Smith may be more deserving of a spot than Horford, but based on the position he plays and competition at that position compared to Horford's competition, Horford may have a better chance.

You haven't mentioend David Lee.

Chronz
01-11-2010, 04:28 PM
First of all, bargs is special in the sence that you dont see too many centres in the league with his skill set. that alone makes him stand out.
Standing out doesnt make you special, for instance, Bargs rebounding #'s stand out, but it doesnt make him special. By special I mean the overall summation of his game.


2ndly your asuming that the raps will be a 500 club by the end of the season. alot can change ine 5 games for good or bad. also the other centres alot of people are mentioning lopez.noah are both on sub par 500 teams. the only centre i really think is worth argueing is al horford. but johnson and josh smith would be voted in the all start team from the hawks before horford. bargs is the 2nd leading scorer on the raps at this point. i wouldnt completly count him out.
Alot CAN change, alot can also remain the same, I really dont care what Bargs may do in the future just what hes proven.

As for the merits of the other centers, if you break them down, most are either clearly better players on less talented teams, or they are winning or producing more effectively.

Like whos in your top 5 list

Chronz
01-11-2010, 04:28 PM
AB is playing well enough in my book to be a backup in the allstar game. Dude is good, and his shot is not ugly.

Theres just 1 problem, Andrew Bynum plays in the West.

Chacarron
01-11-2010, 04:30 PM
I like how he's been getting blocks as of late and he is a 3-point threat. I'll say he has a legitimate chance at making it as a reserve.

knicks09
01-11-2010, 04:35 PM
AL Harford Brook Lopez And Joakim Noah in That Order Over Barg
Joakim Noah is not better than David Lee neither is Bargnani

thescore53
01-11-2010, 04:45 PM
hustle players shouldnt be in allstar game what the hell is noah gonna do in
the asg take a charge aginst kobe

mjt20mik
01-11-2010, 04:49 PM
Offense+Defense+Rebounding = Summation of a players stats

He doesnt stand a chance

Allen Iverson, Gilbert Arenas, Tracy McGrady, and Vince Carter are a couple of people that aren't good defenders. Yet they have made the All-Star games. I don't think Bargnani will make it, cause there are more deserving people, but..

Your formula is flawed.

Bob_at_york
01-11-2010, 04:51 PM
hustle players shouldnt be in allstar game what the hell is noah gonna do in
the asg take a charge aginst kobe

get rebounds, blocks shots, dunk the ball, play basketball. :shrug:

knicks09
01-11-2010, 04:53 PM
Allen Iverson, Gilbert Arenas, Tracy McGrady, and Vince Carter are a couple of people that aren't good defenders. Yet they have made the All-Star games. I don't think Bargnani will make it, cause there are more deserving people, but..

Your formula is flawed.

None of those players you mentioned are centers. Centers are mostly none for defense

LanceUpperCut
01-11-2010, 04:53 PM
Theres just 1 problem, Andrew Bynum plays in the West.

Lets just hope he does'nt get in

thescore53
01-11-2010, 04:56 PM
bargs isnt really a center anyways

knicks09
01-11-2010, 04:56 PM
To answer this question my answer is no. Dwight Howard will be starting and as a reserve it's gonna be between Al Horford and David Lee. Both those players are bettter than Bargnani

magichatnumber9
01-11-2010, 04:56 PM
Theres just 1 problem, Andrew Bynum plays in the West.

AB is also andrea bargnani's initials also.

mjt20mik
01-11-2010, 04:59 PM
None of those players you mentioned are centers. Centers are mostly none for defense

He did not specify whether it was centers or players, since players was the word that was used. You can even question Amare for being in as a Center, and being able to play stellar defense.

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 04:59 PM
Bargnani shouldn't even be considered a center.

thescore53
01-11-2010, 05:00 PM
everybody knows theres no defense in allstar games

pebloemer
01-11-2010, 05:03 PM
Bargnani shouldn't even be considered a center.

That's a completely different discussion. He has played Center all season long, so by NBA rules, he is considered a Center. Whether or not he SHOULD be is not what is being discussed here.

LanceUpperCut
01-11-2010, 05:04 PM
Where do you get these figures from? For someone whos trying to portray himself as an objective observer, you should be able to justify this response with something substantial.
You dont have to play on the block to be a great rebounder, just ask Dirk. Remember defensively, everyones role is to block out or track the rebound, there is no excuse for such a pitiful showing other than lack of skill. There are alot of great players, the term great is relative, greater players is what I shouldve said.

His man 2 man D has gotten better, his improved muscle mass has helped, other than that I still see the same apathetic team defender Ive always seen.

As for Antonio, he probably wouldnt make it nowadays either, but hed have a better case than Bargs.

Ok man you don't have to sound like a douche, no I don't figure sit down and try to figure out formulas to sound cool and prove everyone wrong I have watched every game minus a couple the raps have played in the last 10-12 years so I like to talk about them. Like I said Bargnani is NOT a great rebounder but if Bosh was'nt playing he would average more so I don't have a proof since Bosh does play with the Raptors(insert Bosh leaving joke) I say this from watching games thats it. By the way I'm sorry everyone for trying to potray myself as an objective observer I hope you guys can still like me:(

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 05:15 PM
That's a completely different discussion. He has played Center all season long, so by NBA rules, he is considered a Center. Whether or not he SHOULD be is not what is being discussed here.

He's introduced as the starting center but he is rarely playing center. I'm watching the Celtics game right now and he's been matched up against Rasheed and Glen Davis on defense, while playing on the perimeter on defense. He's attempted two shots in the paint, both were runners.

It's not just a one game thing either, I saw during both games against Chicago and a few other games this season and last.

Bosh is the center on that team and he should be the starting East center.

sf-fanatic
01-11-2010, 05:17 PM
nope horford and noah and maybe lopez make it above him

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 05:18 PM
Ok man you don't have to sound like a douche, no I don't figure sit down and try to figure out formulas to sound cool and prove everyone wrong I have watched every game minus a couple the raps have played in the last 10-12 years so I like to talk about them. Like I said Bargnani is NOT a great rebounder but if Bosh was'nt playing he would average more so I don't have a proof since Bosh does play with the Raptors(insert Bosh leaving joke) I say this from watching games thats it. By the way I'm sorry everyone for trying to potray myself as an objective observer I hope you guys can still like me:(

Obviously there's not a definitive way to prove this, but I disagree. Bargnani often fails to box out his man and when he attempts to he can be pushed around by stronger guys.

Down the line do I think he'll be a better rebounder? He has to add bulk and learn to box out better but if Bosh leaves someone has to take the rebounds, I just think Amir Johnson will grab most of them.

BluejaysFan08
01-11-2010, 05:18 PM
Armani bargain shopping? where is the thread where i can make fun of player's names?
now Horford deserves to be voted in, he's playing great ball and is still young...Lopez is talented but the Nets just suck so they should not have an All-Star this year

stick to your day job pal, ive read your last few posts, all of which are intended to be funny but none were.:facepalm::clap::facepalm::confused:

GodsSon
01-11-2010, 05:19 PM
He's introduced as the starting center but he is rarely playing center. I'm watching the Celtics game right now and he's been matched up against Rasheed and Glen Davis on defense, while playing on the perimeter on defense. He's attempted two shots in the paint, both were runners.

It's not just a one game thing either, I saw during both games against Chicago and a few other games this season and last.

Bosh is the center on that team and he should be the starting East center.

It varies depending on the match-up...Bargs has a wider frame and is taller so he generally matches up against the bigger/slower centres; whereas Bosh will generally go up against 4's...however, due to the increased muscle mass this year, Bosh has played 5's in some games

CityofTreez
01-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Angela is not going to the All-Star game

dtmagnet
01-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Depends if he can up his play between now and the all-star break, he had a good January last year so it could happen.

Bob_at_york
01-11-2010, 05:22 PM
He's introduced as the starting center but he is rarely playing center. I'm watching the Celtics game right now and he's been matched up against Rasheed and Glen Davis on defense, while playing on the perimeter on defense. He's attempted two shots in the paint, both were runners.

It's not just a one game thing either, I saw during both games against Chicago and a few other games this season and last.

Bosh is the center on that team and he should be the starting East center.
I am confused... so because he left the paint to chase after Sheed (un-successfully) on the perimeter, he isn't a center? :confused:

Because he shoots more jumpers than buckets in the paint, he isn't a center? How does that make sense? Does that make Rondo a center because he gets a lot of points in the paint? :confused:

pebloemer
01-11-2010, 05:22 PM
He's introduced as the starting center but he is rarely playing center. I'm watching the Celtics game right now and he's been matched up against Rasheed and Glen Davis on defense, while playing on the perimeter on defense. He's attempted two shots in the paint, both were runners.

It's not just a one game thing either, I saw during both games against Chicago and a few other games this season and last.

Bosh is the center on that team and he should be the starting East center.

Triano flips flops the two depending on matchup. Bargs defended Howard most of the game against Orlando last week for example.

Both perhaps SHOULD be PF's, but one needs to be listed as C as they both start. Bargs is listed as C and has been all season.

You miss my point. I'm not saying whether or not he should or shouldn't be listed as a C, simply that he IS by NBA standards. Discussing where he should be listed digresses from the conversation of the thread and opens a whole different discussion (one that could be had for other alleged "Centers" in the league). Bottom line is that he IS considered a Center.

pebloemer
01-11-2010, 05:25 PM
He has to add bulk and learn to box out better but if Bosh leaves someone has to take the rebounds, I just think Amir Johnson will grab most of them.

I think his boxing out has been improving in baby steps, but he still has mental lapses with it. I agree. If Bosh wasn't taking them, his replacement would probably get most of those boards. I see no reason to think Bargs would be getting them.

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 05:27 PM
I am confused... so because he left the paint to chase after Sheed (un-successfully) on the perimeter, he isn't a center? :confused:

Because he shoots more jumpers than buckets in the paint, he isn't a center? How does that make sense? Does that make Rondo a center because he gets a lot of points in the paint? :confused:

He plays closer to a SF than a Center.

What do you define the jobs of a center as?

Raps18-19 Champ
01-11-2010, 05:28 PM
Horford most likely gets backup C spot.

Barg can make a case against Lopez and Lee only because of the better record.

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 05:29 PM
Triano flips flops the two depending on matchup. Bargs defended Howard most of the game against Orlando last week for example.

Both perhaps SHOULD be PF's, but one needs to be listed as C as they both start. Bargs is listed as C and has been all season.

You miss my point. I'm not saying whether or not he should or shouldn't be listed as a C, simply that he IS by NBA standards. Discussing where he should be listed digresses from the conversation of the thread and opens a whole different discussion (one that could be had for other alleged "Centers" in the league). Bottom line is that he IS considered a Center.

I got your point, I'm just saying if I was putting together the all-star ballot he'd be listed at PF because that's the role he's played the majority of his time.

Bob_at_york
01-11-2010, 05:31 PM
He plays closer to a SF than a Center.

What do you define the jobs of a center as?

guarding the other team's center and try to get on the backboards.

Cubsfan365
01-11-2010, 05:32 PM
ya coming from bulls fans LMAO what more do you expect..Bargnani is better than any big man on your team, a first pick finally learning his way around..He is hard to handle offensively and defensively hes tremendously improving..No one but bulls fans would only say this..
You're completely misinformed in your statements. It's not just Bulls fans who think Noah is better, and why is it so ridiculous that Bulls fans think Noah is better? You are a Toronto fan who thinks Bargnani is better because he plays for your team. Noah is averaging 10.8 ppg, 12.3 rpg, and 1.7 bpg, while Bargs is at 17.1 ppg and 6.1 rpg, and 1.4 bpg. Noah scores 6 less points, but he rebounds double as much as Bargnani, blocks more shots, and has a higher FG%

Chronz
01-11-2010, 05:33 PM
Allen Iverson, Gilbert Arenas, Tracy McGrady, and Vince Carter are a couple of people that aren't good defenders. Yet they have made the All-Star games. I don't think Bargnani will make it, cause there are more deserving people, but..

Your formula is flawed.
How so? What exactly was that post suppose to prove other than you have no idea how to quantify a players statistical contributions. Look up their offensive #'s and stack them up to Bargs, proceed to slapping yourself.

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 05:37 PM
guarding the other team's center and try to get on the backboards.

Bargnani rarely does either of those things.

vash9
01-11-2010, 05:37 PM
sigh.

if only the Nets didn't suck soooooooo bad, Brook would've had a high chance.

Bargani is a solid/good/okay player. All-Star backup is a biiiig stretch, but he's oaky.

smith&wesson
01-11-2010, 05:38 PM
Bargnani shouldn't even be considered a center.

he is seven feet. he is just a centre with a different skill set.

i agree he would probably be better at playing the 4.

aman_13
01-11-2010, 05:38 PM
He's introduced as the starting center but he is rarely playing center. I'm watching the Celtics game right now and he's been matched up against Rasheed and Glen Davis on defense, while playing on the perimeter on defense. He's attempted two shots in the paint, both were runners.

It's not just a one game thing either, I saw during both games against Chicago and a few other games this season and last.

Bosh is the center on that team and he should be the starting East center.

Why does it matter where he plays on the offensive end? As long as he is defending the center position and holding it down, he is a center.

aman_13
01-11-2010, 05:39 PM
Bargnani rarely does either of those things.

Stop making ignorant comments, when you clearly don't watch the team. He may not be a very good rebounder right now, but he does gaurd the other team's center.

Chronz
01-11-2010, 05:41 PM
Ok man you don't have to sound like a douche, no I don't figure sit down and try to figure out formulas to sound cool and prove everyone wrong I have watched every game minus a couple the raps have played in the last 10-12 years so I like to talk about them. Like I said Bargnani is NOT a great rebounder but if Bosh was'nt playing he would average more so I don't have a proof since Bosh does play with the Raptors(insert Bosh leaving joke) I say this from watching games thats it. By the way I'm sorry everyone for trying to potray myself as an objective observer I hope you guys can still like me:(
So then if you dont know how to quantify something as easy as rebounding why even talk about stats? No need to make excuses for your player bro, that I watch the game stuff might fly with your casual fan but when you use, actual #'s (like your 3-4reb theory) I want some shred of evidence.

You say all of this from watching games, well if all you do is watch then you really have no say on anything related to stats. You have to spend just as much time watching the game as you do watching the stats to truly understand them.

You dont need Bosh gone to get atleast a hint of evidence, Bargs has played a considerable amount of possessions without Bosh by his side, all you would have to do is calculate his and the teams rebound rate in those minutes to see if your theory holds water.

Look bro, if all your trying to say is well if Bargs didnt play alongside another decent rebounder, hed get more, what exactly is the point of this? The teams rates would suffer and as a result would diminish the significance of his rebounding #'s so in the end hes still the same poor rebounder.

Basically dont take offense when someone wants you to substantiate claims you make. If thats coming off like a douche then your gonna hate grown up life.

mjt20mik
01-11-2010, 05:44 PM
How so? What exactly was that post suppose to prove other than you have no idea how to quantify a players statistical contributions. Look up their offensive #'s and stack them up to Bargs, proceed to slapping yourself.

Maybe you need to learn to read. I said Bargnani will not make it, so comparing his numbers to the guys I listed above seems pointless. I'm just going against your point where you listed a stupid formula. You don't need defense to get into the All-Star game. Sure some people make it cause of that, but it's not the focal point.

:facepalm:

Cubsfan365
01-11-2010, 05:45 PM
Stop making ignorant comments, when you clearly don't watch the team. He may not be a very good rebounder right now, but he does gaurd the other team's center.
A center who doesn't rebound doesn't belong in the all star game

pebloemer
01-11-2010, 05:46 PM
I got your point, I'm just saying if I was putting together the all-star ballot he'd be listed at PF because that's the role he's played the majority of his time.

Fair enough. But unfortunately (perhaps fortunately for Bargs?) the NBA lists him as a C and if I'm not mistaken that would make him ineligible for the forward spots. So in this context he has to be taken in consideration for the C spot. Even if it is only light consideration (which I feel it should be as Lee and Horford are having better years).

Bob_at_york
01-11-2010, 05:48 PM
Bargnani rarely does either of those things.

I guess you are watching a different Bargnani than me. I think his man-to-man D is good and I see him trying to get on the backboards all the time.

aman_13
01-11-2010, 05:48 PM
A center who doesn't rebound doesn't belong in the all star game

I never said he deserved to be in the all-star game, i'm just responding to the user who said Bargnani doesn't gaurd the other team's center.

torontosports10
01-11-2010, 05:49 PM
1. The All-Star weekend is a ****ing joke to begin with.
2. Its a ******** popularity contest and always will be.
3. Hes played a lot better this year then ppl give him credit for, and I was shocked to see his defensive improvments the last few games (I never watched much at the start of this year).
4. If he didnt play in Toronto he would get a lot more credit (ala Bosh)
5. He is stuck behind Bosh.
6. He wont be an all-star this year but he deserves to be in the convo for sure (unlike how ppl like Chronz make him out to be a complete useless player when they havent seen him play)

thescore53
01-11-2010, 05:52 PM
a center that cant score doesnt belong on the allstar team

Ragun
01-11-2010, 05:53 PM
its between bargs, horford and bogut...i think it will end up being bogut or bargs. no way brook lopez...he has nice stats on a ****** frigging team. he looked like **** when the raptors and nets faced off.

Cubsfan365
01-11-2010, 05:56 PM
a center that cant score doesnt belong on the allstar team
See Ben Wallace. Joakim still averages a double double

thescore53
01-11-2010, 06:00 PM
i dont think noah and lebron should be on the same team:dance:

if you know what i mean

thescore53
01-11-2010, 06:02 PM
but the bulls record might hurt noah

Gibby23
01-11-2010, 06:02 PM
a center that cant score doesnt belong on the allstar team

I think you mean a center that isn't a good defender or rebounder doesn't belong on the All Star team.

Cubsfan365
01-11-2010, 06:02 PM
i dont think noah and lebron should be on the same team:dance:

if you know what i mean
Way to change the subject when you're wrong. Cool.

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 06:02 PM
he is seven feet. he is just a centre with a different skill set.

i agree he would probably be better at playing the 4.

Height does not a center make. Chuck Hayes is 6'6 playing center, Magic was 6'9 playing point. Dirk is 7' and has played PF or SF for most of his career.


Why does it matter where he plays on the offensive end? As long as he is defending the center position and holding it down, he is a center.

It matters because you would like your center to work in the paint more than your perimeter players, with Bargnani 80% of his shots are from 10 feet or further. For comparison, Bynum, Gasol, Lopez, Horford, Noah, Lee, Amare, none of those guys take even 60% of their shots outside of 10 feet.


Stop making ignorant comments, when you clearly don't watch the team. He may not be a very good rebounder right now, but he does gaurd the other team's center.

I don't watch every Raptors game, I have no problem admitting that. I do watch a good amount of their games, and each time Bosh has been matched up with the opposing center for most of the game. Stats also have my back on this one, Bargnani has play 51% of available minutes at PF compared to 17% at center. (Bosh has played 67% of the center minutes)

Cubsfan365
01-11-2010, 06:03 PM
I think you mean a center that isn't a good defender or rebounder doesn't belong on the All Star team.
aka bargnani

Gibby23
01-11-2010, 06:03 PM
aka bargnani

Yes.

thescore53
01-11-2010, 06:04 PM
I think you mean a center that isn't a good defender or rebounder doesn't belong on the All Star team.

yea because defense is important on the allstar team

Slumberking
01-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Bargnani is a nice player. that is for sure. He shoots very well for a big, and his defense is getting a bit better, but there is no way a center that averages 17 points and 6 boards a game will make an all star team. Come on guys, there are going to be guards in the all star game that average close to (bryant, wade, kidd) if not more (iggy) boards than him.

Its not a knock on his game, its just that guys like horford, lopez, and lee have far superior numbers. Bargs will get there if he continues to get better. He has a great future in the NBA

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 06:08 PM
Bogut really deserves a spot more than Bargs and Lee, but no one really cares about defense so I doubt it happens

thescore53
01-11-2010, 06:09 PM
but seriously bargs should be able to rebound if dirk can do it so can bargs

uncleben989
01-11-2010, 06:11 PM
Height does not a center make. Chuck Hayes is 6'6 playing center, Magic was 6'9 playing point. Dirk is 7' and has played PF or SF for most of his career.



It matters because you would like your center to work in the paint more than your perimeter players, with Bargnani 80% of his shots are from 10 feet or further. For comparison, Bynum, Gasol, Lopez, Horford, Noah, Lee, Amare, none of those guys take even 60% of their shots outside of 10 feet.



I don't watch every Raptors game, I have no problem admitting that. I do watch a good amount of their games, and each time Bosh has been matched up with the opposing center for most of the game. Stats also have my back on this one, Bargnani has play 51% of available minutes at PF compared to 17% at center. (Bosh has played 67% of the center minutes)

where did u get these stats from? lol bosh hasnt played centre for almost 2 years now:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepa lm:

aman_13
01-11-2010, 06:14 PM
Well i think Bargnani will redefine the center position. I can't explain the stats, but i do know whenever there is an opposing center who is a focal point of the offense, like a Duncan or a Howard, he is the one who is gaurding them. The Raptors also have a tendancy to switch a lot, which could play into the percenatages.

roshan3ai
01-11-2010, 06:15 PM
Nah. I'd take Al Horford or even David Lee before him. David Lee is not an allstar, because of his bad defense, and I think that is also the reason that Bargs shouldn't make it either.

ChiSox219
01-11-2010, 06:15 PM
where did u get these stats from? lol bosh hasnt played centre for almost 2 years now:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepa lm:

Bargnani is listed at C and is introduced at C but Bosh plays the majority of minutes at C, I don't even need the stats, just watch a few of the Raptors games and notice who Bargs guards and where he plays on both ends of the court.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR11.HTM#bypos

aman_13
01-11-2010, 06:17 PM
Anyways, like i said before, Bargnani does not deserve to be in the all-star game this year, but i only think that because of his rebounding numbers.

mjt20mik
01-11-2010, 06:19 PM
Bargnani is listed at C and is introduced at C but Bosh plays the majority of minutes at C, I don't even need the stats, just watch a few of the Raptors games and notice who Bargs guards and where he plays on both ends of the court.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR11.HTM#bypos

That's an interesting site. I haven't seen him guard 4s in the league. I recall him guarding Dwight, Shaq, etc.

LanceUpperCut
01-11-2010, 06:20 PM
So then if you dont know how to quantify something as easy as rebounding why even talk about stats? No need to make excuses for your player bro, that I watch the game stuff might fly with your casual fan but when you use, actual #'s (like your 3-4reb theory) I want some shred of evidence.

You say all of this from watching games, well if all you do is watch then you really have no say on anything related to stats. You have to spend just as much time watching the game as you do watching the stats to truly understand them.

You dont need Bosh gone to get atleast a hint of evidence, Bargs has played a considerable amount of possessions without Bosh by his side, all you would have to do is calculate his and the teams rebound rate in those minutes to see if your theory holds water.

Look bro, if all your trying to say is well if Bargs didnt play alongside another decent rebounder, hed get more, what exactly is the point of this? The teams rates would suffer and as a result would diminish the significance of his rebounding #'s so in the end hes still the same poor rebounder.

Basically dont take offense when someone wants you to substantiate claims you make. If thats coming off like a douche then your gonna hate grown up life.

My god man like I said again and again BARGNANI IS NOT A GREAT REBOUNDER, I did'nt realize everyone in here had to have a PHD in basketball to talk in here, if I wanted to sift through stats all day long I could but since I don't give a **** what guys who think they know it all i.e. CHRONZ thinks I just post as I please. I was'nt taking offense to the fact you wanted me to substantiate my claim that Bargs would get more rebounds if Bosh was'nt there but if you want to make it seem like that go to it. So growning up is gonna be hard eh. You must be doing great spending all your time fighting on a forum with us little kids.

Ragun
01-11-2010, 06:21 PM
That's an interesting site. I haven't seen him guard 4s in the league. I recall him guarding Dwight, Shaq, etc.

duncan, yao (last season), horford...all the centers you can think of.

illegallover
01-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Not this year, but guaranteed next year when bosh is gone. He has vastly improved defensively. He's gonna be a 20 + 8 guy next year and +.400pct on the 3
Noah = next Ben Wallace
David Lee LOL

illegallover
01-11-2010, 06:42 PM
AB is deadly,

17.1 PPG FG .472 3pt.371 FT.818 RB.6.1 BLK1.4

bargs has more 3PM AND 3PT PCT than Brandon Roy, Kevin Durant, Vince Carter, Baron Davis, Stephen jackson... just to name a few.

Chronz
01-11-2010, 07:12 PM
My god man like I said again and again BARGNANI IS NOT A GREAT REBOUNDER,
When have we ever disagreed on that? My beef was with your +3-4 rebound theory. I dont think you realize just how big of a leap that is for a player.


I did'nt realize everyone in here had to have a PHD in basketball to talk in here, if I wanted to sift through stats all day long I could but since I don't give a **** what guys who think they know it all i.e. CHRONZ thinks I just post as I please. I was'nt taking offense to the fact you wanted me to substantiate my claim that Bargs would get more rebounds if Bosh was'nt there but if you want to make it seem like that go to it.
Im just sayin your wrong, but you still know your ball. You just dont know your stats. Wanna high five now?


So growning up is gonna be hard eh. You must be doing great spending all your time fighting on a forum with us little kids.

You dont speak on behalf of everyone here, theres a good amount of basketball IQ here. I wouldnt post here if there wasnt.

Chronz
01-11-2010, 07:19 PM
Maybe you need to learn to read. I said Bargnani will not make it, so comparing his numbers to the guys I listed above seems pointless. I'm just going against your point where you listed a stupid formula. You don't need defense to get into the All-Star game. Sure some people make it cause of that, but it's not the focal point.

:facepalm:

I never said you NEEDED defense to get into the all-star game genius. Its not that I need to learn to read, its that you need to up your comprehension of whats being said.

OFFENSE+DEFENSE+REBOUNDING = Summation of a players statistical worth

That was it right? SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS YOU NEED DEFENSE TO GET IN?

If my logic were that stupid wouldnt you just be able to say, AI never averaged as many rebounds as Shaq so how did they make the all-star team? I dont know whether to be offended that you would think Id stoop to that level of idiocy, or feel sorry for seeing you go through it.

Those are the focal points, everyone doesnt just dominate 1 area equally, there are variations, why wouldnt you automatically assume that I dont know, but do you have any questions?

GodsSon
01-11-2010, 07:29 PM
I think Bargs has just as good of a shot as Lee, Lopez, Horford, Shaq and Noah...the problem is he hasn't put enough distance between himself and those players to gain the requisite attention from coaches to get in...accompany that with the fact that the Raptors are currently in 6th place with a .500 record and it becomes even less likely...i hate to say it, but i think Shaq will be the reserve centre

The_905
01-11-2010, 08:10 PM
If Bargnani can get up to 18.5 ppg then he should make the all star team as backup..

Philly Hammer
01-11-2010, 08:30 PM
he can help mopping up wet spots and handing out towels to the players playing in the all-star game while in full Raptor uniform

AntwanN21
01-11-2010, 09:02 PM
he can help mopping up wet spots and handing out towels to the players playing in the all-star game while in full Raptor uniform

wow thats a great post.......