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View Full Version : Is Joe Johnson a Franchise Player or a really Good 2nd option for a Superstar?



JordansBulls
01-11-2010, 12:35 PM
Is Joe Johnson a Franchise Player?

Or

Is he a really good 2nd option for a legit Superstar?

TheKing23
01-11-2010, 12:45 PM
In my opinion, definitely a really good 2nd option.

I can never see a team winning it all with him as their best player, but if you paired him with a dominant post player (Dwight, TD, KG etc.) he could do some special things.

D1JM
01-11-2010, 12:48 PM
IMO he is really good 2nd option

Wilson
01-11-2010, 12:51 PM
In my opinion, definitely a really good 2nd option.

I can never see a team winning it all with him as their best player, but if you paired him with a dominant post player (Dwight, TD, KG etc.) he could do some special things.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Johnson is a pretty all-around talented offensive player, pairing him with a good post scorer would produce good results.

Corey
01-11-2010, 12:51 PM
I'd say he's one of the best second options in the league. He's definitely a star player, but not close to superstar status.

Though this doesn't matter: His game isn't flashy enough to get recognition with other fan bases.

Ssshbliblibl00p
01-11-2010, 12:52 PM
IMO if Joe Johnson is the best player on my team, I'm not gonna be happy.

Wilson
01-11-2010, 12:55 PM
I'd say he's one of the best second options in the league. He's definitely a star player, but not close to superstar status.

Though this doesn't matter: His game isn't flashy enough to get recognition with other fan bases.

I'm still really hoping he'll sign with Houston this summer. Him, Brooks and Ariza would be an extremely exciting perimeter, and if Yao is healthy they'd be very dangerous.

Brooklyn Mets
01-11-2010, 01:01 PM
i compare joe johnson to guys like michael redd or ray allen, they have a great game but shouldnt be the number one option on a team

Ssshbliblibl00p
01-11-2010, 01:01 PM
As long as he doesn't end up on my Knicks as a consolation prize, I'll be happy. He dominates the ball and stalls offenses to much for my liking.

runforrestrunx9
01-11-2010, 01:16 PM
while i dont think he is a superstar by any means, he is good enough 2 win a championship as a teams #1 option if they have a great supporting cast. So, IMO he is just a great 2nd option (my vote), but that doesnt mean a team with him as the #1 guy cant win it all

JOSKOMANG4
01-11-2010, 01:19 PM
I believe if A'mare Opts out next season out of his contract with the Suns.. I can see both A'Mare & Joe Johnson signing with the NY Knicks!!

A'Mare- max contract(17.8mill a season)
Joe Johnson-6yr 90mill (15.0 mill per season)

C) A'Mare
PF) J.Hill
SF) D.Gallanari/W.Chandler(6th man)
SG) J.Johnson
PG) Tony Douglass/Draft status(Scottie Reynolds, Villanova)

albertc86
01-11-2010, 01:21 PM
Second option.

cheetos185
01-11-2010, 01:23 PM
Good 2nd star to All star Bigman like bosh amare he makes big shots in clutch like pierce

TheWatcher34
01-11-2010, 01:29 PM
Franchise player? no way he's too inconsistent.

mikantsass
01-11-2010, 01:36 PM
Good 2nd option... To me the term "franchise player" is thrown around way too much..

There are only about 10 "franchise players" in the league and they are clearly the elite...

$ NyC $
01-11-2010, 01:43 PM
Joe Johnson + LeBron James = Championship. The Cavs should really try 2 get him he's like a taller/better Mo Williams and is the PERFECT #2 Option. He's like the Pau Gasol of SGz.

masalex1205
01-11-2010, 01:50 PM
IMO if Joe Johnson is the best player on my team, I'm not gonna be happy.

depends on your team, maybe if he was on a solid all around team like Pistons

runforrestrunx9
01-11-2010, 01:54 PM
Good 2nd option... To me the term "franchise player" is thrown around way too much..

There are only about 10 "franchise players" in the league and they are clearly the elite...

kobe
LBJ
wade
dwight
duncan
deron
cp3
melo
bosh
durant
dirk

kinda hit it right on the ball... i think those 10 guys r the unquestioned top 10 or 11 franchise players... there are 5-7 more that i would still consider elite tho

Chronz
01-11-2010, 02:05 PM
I hate these tags labeled out to players, I really dont get the way you guys see the game.

JordansBulls
01-11-2010, 02:09 PM
IMO if Joe Johnson is the best player on my team, I'm not gonna be happy.

Let's say the other star on the team is Bosh or Amare? They would be pretty much same level as Joe Johnson wouldn't they?

sunnydayin'zona
01-11-2010, 02:36 PM
kobe
LBJ
wade
dwight
duncan
deron
cp3
melo
bosh
durant
dirk

kinda hit it right on the ball... i think those 10 guys r the unquestioned top 10 or 11 franchise players... there are 5-7 more that i would still consider elite tho

switch deron with nash.

and are we forgetting that amare and joe johnson have played on a team together?

magichatnumber9
01-11-2010, 03:02 PM
I like Joe he is a very tough guard for most 2's to cover.

Lakersfan2483
01-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Joe is a perfect 2nd option on a championship team playing along side a superstar player like Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, KG. I don't think he's a franchise player, but he's definitely an all star player and a top 20 player in the NBA. In my opinion, there aren't many true franchise players.

Lakersfan2483
01-11-2010, 03:16 PM
Good 2nd option... To me the term "franchise player" is thrown around way too much..

There are only about 10 "franchise players" in the league and they are clearly the elite...

Agreed. True Superstars are: Kobe, Lebron, D. Wade, Duncan, Howard, KG, Chris Paul, Dirk Nowitzki and Melo.

Dee_Edge
01-11-2010, 03:16 PM
He's a really good 2nd option for a legit Superstar!

Joe Johnson & Yao Ming 2011 Rockets!

Ssshbliblibl00p
01-11-2010, 03:25 PM
depends on your team, maybe if he was on a solid all around team like Pistons

All around team? to some degree, but the Pistons to me are a group of pretty good players who need the ball in there hands to be successful. The last thing they need is another guard that dominates the ball. While they would obv be more competitive, they aren't gonna be competing for a chip at all.

Ssshbliblibl00p
01-11-2010, 03:31 PM
Let's say the other star on the team is Bosh or Amare? They would be pretty much same level as Joe Johnson wouldn't they?

Same level, yea, maybe, I think we can all agree they're on the same level so to speak.

Same value? not really.

I place much higher value on dominant bigs like bosh and amare, then a perimeter player like Johnson. I don't wanna sound like I think Johnson is a chump or anything, but I don't want him to be my max player addition.

showboatcp
01-11-2010, 03:34 PM
Im a hawks fan and have been for 10 years now.

And Im sad to say Joe Johnson is a Lame he is not a superstar player he has top 10 talent in the league but no heart.

I cant wait till this year is over so the hawks make a run a Dwade. Imagine D wade playing with the suppoorting cast of

al horford,j-smoove,jamal crawford, and marvin williams


you cant tell that would be a finals contender

Ssshbliblibl00p
01-11-2010, 03:38 PM
I hate these tags labeled out to players, I really dont get the way you guys see the game.

Not to start any beef, but I don't get your quote about "CLOSE GAMES" at all...sounds utterly rediculous in my opinion. Every great team in every sport is involved in close games, blow outs, etc etc. Its all about players of all levels seizing the moment and making plays.

Sorry I had to say it, there's an air of pompousness that bothers me every time I see it.

So with that being said, I don't really see the game the way you do.

Ssshbliblibl00p
01-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Im a hawks fan and have been for 10 years now.

And Im sad to say Joe Johnson is a Lame he is not a superstar player he has top 10 talent in the league but no heart.

I cant wait till this year is over so the hawks make a run a Dwade. Imagine D wade playing with the suppoorting cast of

al horford,j-smoove,jamal crawford, and marvin williams


you cant tell that would be a finals contender

You should have left Marvin off that list, kinda ruined it a bit. He's about as sorry a player as they come.

sep11ie
01-11-2010, 03:53 PM
In my opinion, definitely a really good 2nd option.

I can never see a team winning it all with him as their best player, but if you paired him with a dominant post player (Dwight, TD, KG etc.) he could do some special things.

KG is not dominate anymore dude.

MosArmani
01-11-2010, 04:00 PM
I think he's a superstar. What pushes him over the edge in my mind is that he has a good drive and plays pretty legit defense. He's not like say a Ray Allen, where Allen has to rely on relatively low percentage shots (3 point shots) to get it done. Joe Johnson reminds me a lot of an early Tracy McGrady.

greg_ory_2005
01-11-2010, 04:04 PM
JJ is a great 2nd option. He needs a 2nd great player alongside him to have a chance at a title.

Ssshbliblibl00p
01-11-2010, 04:09 PM
I think he's a superstar. What pushes him over the edge in my mind is that he has a good drive and plays pretty legit defense. He's not like say a Ray Allen, where Allen has to rely on relatively low percentage shots (3 point shots) to get it done. Joe Johnson reminds me a lot of an early Tracy McGrady.

Comparing Joe Johnson to an old *** but still highly effective Ray Allen is not fair. Maybe you aren't old enough to remember the all around threat Ray Allen once was.

Joe Johnson has never had anything in his game nearly as explosive or dominant as the all around game T-mac once had, bad comparison.

vash9
01-11-2010, 05:25 PM
yeah, for some reason, i can't really see him as the Franchise player, but 2nd option definitely for superstar.

JasonJohnHorn
01-11-2010, 06:32 PM
I think on a team like the Hawks, a team orientated team, like the Pistons or 04/05, (or even the Pistons of 89/90) Johnson could work as a first option. He's a great player and thuogh not a point guard, he is similar to Billups in that he doesn't mind bring up on the ball and big plays and taking the big shots. I don't think he fits the "franchise" player mould like Kobe or Wade, but I think he IS a legit first optionif playing on a team with some depth (like the one he's one right now).

ugafan
01-11-2010, 06:44 PM
As a Hawks fan, I know our team isn't going anywhere with JJ as our best player so I'm more than happy to let him walk and see what we can pick up in free agency. Even if we lose him, insert Crawford into the starting lineup and the Hawks are still a borderline playoff team. He's A good second option, but definitely not worth anywhere close to a max contract. I feel sorry for the team who pays JJ next year.

JordansBulls
01-11-2010, 06:54 PM
yeah, for some reason, i can't really see him as the Franchise player, but 2nd option definitely for superstar.

Well if he was with someone like Durant he would flourish.

KG2TB
01-11-2010, 07:03 PM
Great 2nd option and just a step below a superstar\franchise player. Maybe a step and a half but he's a GREAT player. Put him on a team with another GREAT 2nd option and good 3rd option that team has a chance depending on depth\role players.

magichatnumber9
01-11-2010, 07:35 PM
Comparing Joe Johnson to an old *** but still highly effective Ray Allen is not fair. Maybe you aren't old enough to remember the all around threat Ray Allen once was.

Joe Johnson has never had anything in his game nearly as explosive or dominant as the all around game T-mac once had, bad comparison.
Oh so true

AddiX
01-11-2010, 08:03 PM
if you don't think JJ is a franchise player you have not been watching him the last 2 years. What he did in the playoffs the last few yrs proves hes a go to guy.

Reyes6
01-11-2010, 08:08 PM
I think if he joined a team like Miami he would automatically put them as a championship contender. A great compliment, and not quite a superstar... but a great player none the less. I would rather have him with a superstar than someone like a Brandon Roy.

MiamiHeat
01-11-2010, 08:12 PM
Really Good 2nd Option for a Superstar Player

astrosmaniac
01-11-2010, 08:20 PM
I'm still really hoping he'll sign with Houston this summer. Him, Brooks and Ariza would be an extremely exciting perimeter, and if Yao is healthy they'd be very dangerous.

i would LOVE that. if we end up just keeping t-mac for the cap space (or trading him for other expiring contracts) joe johnson is my #1 priority in FA. we shouldn't waste our time on wade, lebron, bosh, because they probably won't come here and SG is our biggest need

njnets825
01-11-2010, 10:15 PM
Franchise player, he can do it all, and he proved that he has a killer instinct in the playoffs. how many teams out there have a 2nd best player that is as good as JJ. many don't have their best player as good. is he a top 30 player? I think so, well there's 30 teams.

twoearl
01-11-2010, 11:04 PM
i compare joe johnson to guys like michael redd or ray allen, they have a great game but shouldnt be the number one option on a team

yes i agree 100%.

twoearl
01-11-2010, 11:05 PM
put Joe on the Cavs and you it would instantly make them the favorites to win the ring.

Corey
01-11-2010, 11:07 PM
KG is not dominate anymore dude.

I'm not turning this into a celtics thread, but KG's scoring has gone down because he is putting up less shots, not because his 'dominance' has diminished. He went from having no other options, to having Pierce, Allen and Rondo. His percentages are pretty constant throughout his career, he just doesn't have to carry the load like he used to.

SchyGuy11
01-11-2010, 11:19 PM
a very very good 2nd option

CELTICSBANNER18
01-11-2010, 11:28 PM
I actually see him going back to Boston if they don't bring Allen back. To me he is very very similar to Ray Allen and he would
Fit nicely on that team.

PackCrewBuckBad
01-12-2010, 12:37 AM
i compare joe johnson to guys like michael redd or ray allen, they have a great game but shouldnt be the number one option on a team

JJ>>>>>>>>>>>>Redd

PackCrewBuckBad
01-12-2010, 12:38 AM
I'm not turning this into a celtics thread, but KG's scoring has gone down because he is putting up less shots, not because his 'dominance' has diminished. He went from having no other options, to having Pierce, Allen and Rondo. His percentages are pretty constant throughout his career, he just doesn't have to carry the load like he used to.

What about his rebounds, steals, blocks and assists?

RocketsRule
01-12-2010, 01:41 AM
What about his rebounds, steals, blocks and assists?

That would be due to his reduced playing time. He went from getting nearly 40 minutes a game in Minnesota, to getting about 31 minutes in his three years with the Celtics.

I mean obviously he's declined a little, but he's only human. He can't be in his prime his whole career.

JordansBulls
01-12-2010, 09:26 AM
I'm not turning this into a celtics thread, but KG's scoring has gone down because he is putting up less shots, not because his 'dominance' has diminished. He went from having no other options, to having Pierce, Allen and Rondo. His percentages are pretty constant throughout his career, he just doesn't have to carry the load like he used to.

Well he has more dominant players on his team now as well.

nbafan63
01-12-2010, 09:38 AM
I agree Joe is best as 2nd option. But to say he is not fit to be #1 option is ridiculous. If Joe Johnson is not a legit #1 option then I would say 40% of the league do not have a legit #1 option.

sep11ie
01-12-2010, 12:45 PM
I'm not turning this into a celtics thread, but KG's scoring has gone down because he is putting up less shots, not because his 'dominance' has diminished. He went from having no other options, to having Pierce, Allen and Rondo. His percentages are pretty constant throughout his career, he just doesn't have to carry the load like he used to.

No, I'm not bashing or anything man. I just mean the wear and tear are getting to him. Just like Yao, you can't be a dominate player if ya can't stay on the hardwood!

DodgerBulls
01-12-2010, 01:04 PM
So far, he is like Artest because of Kobe.

sep11ie
01-14-2010, 03:37 PM
So far, he is like Artest because of Kobe.

Huh? That makes no sense...

Tony_Starks
01-14-2010, 03:49 PM
I actually say franchise. He pretty much turned that whole organization around and he doesn't have a legit all star on the team. You could argue J Smoothe but Im not so sure about that one.

Now I agree pair him with a nice post player and it would be sick, but I would still want JJ as first option IMO. He's one of the few players in the league that can single handedly take over a game.

AddiX
01-14-2010, 03:54 PM
Not many players, even superstars that can do everything. And JJ does everything. Not only that but he plays on a complete 1 on 1 team. The ball movement is non-existent on that team. On a team that moves the ball JJ is averaging 25 on a laid back night.

MU and UW Fan
01-14-2010, 04:09 PM
i compare joe johnson to guys like michael redd or ray allen, they have a great game but shouldnt be the number one option on a team

A younger Ray Allen and Joe Johnson are pretty equal players. Michael Redd tho. He's terrible. Redd is no more than a #3 option who is injured all the time.

SteveNash
01-14-2010, 04:13 PM
I agree Joe is best as 2nd option. But to say he is not fit to be #1 option is ridiculous. If Joe Johnson is not a legit #1 option then I would say 40% of the league do not have a legit #1 option.

Way higher than 40%, I'd say closer to 90%.

Bryrob58
01-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Good question, very debatable. I'd say he's a good number one, but the #2 guy with him has to be pretty good. I don't think you need to pair him with a top 10 player to be successful, but definitely another top 30 guy. Something like what Portland has in Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge. Obviously Roy is now better than Johnson, but Roy and LA had success together before they fully developed (not that they are playing to their potential yet, just saying stat wise). I think if you put a guy like Amare Stoudemire beside Johnson, and a decent supporting cast, the team is a yearly threat. What I'm saying is no, he can't make a team great by himself, but another all-star guy beside him makes a good team, anyways.

rrude
01-14-2010, 05:38 PM
if he were a #1, the Hawks would be top-tier instead of second-tier. They have good support players, just no superstar who can take over and single-handedly win a game.

tbell33
01-14-2010, 05:57 PM
I like that team

aWiLL 20
01-14-2010, 05:57 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be political and ride the fence here. He's the EXACT PLAYER in the NBA where the line is drawn between Franchise or Great 2nd option IMO. So, I didn't really answer the poll, but let me end by saying I would love for him to come be with Dirk and win a championship together

xabial
01-14-2010, 06:00 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be political and ride the fence here. He's the EXACT PLAYER in the NBA where the line is drawn between Franchise or Great 2nd option IMO. So, I didn't really answer the poll, but let me end by saying I would love for him to come be with Dirk and win a championship together

Nice answer :clap:

JordansBulls
01-14-2010, 07:56 PM
Way higher than 40%, I'd say closer to 90%.

So you are saying only 3 teams in the league have franchise players? 3 out of 30 teams is 10%.

thedfactor
01-14-2010, 08:20 PM
Joe Johnson would fit perfect in Dallas.

TheShock45
01-14-2010, 08:29 PM
i have the biggest feeling in the world that the knicks after all this miss out on the top tier free agents and end up with spending almost all there money on the combo of Joe Johnson and Channign Frye. I'm not guarenteeing it but I just have a feeling that that's gonna happen haha

jojoe1188
01-14-2010, 08:35 PM
IMO if Joe Johnson is the best player on my team, I'm not gonna be happy.

i think id be happy as a hawks fan right now

SteveNash
01-14-2010, 08:55 PM
So you are saying only 3 teams in the league have franchise players? 3 out of 30 teams is 10%.

I'd say Johnson falls into the great player who isn't a superstar.

Plenty of players are in this level, some a bit higher, some a bit lower, but considering that the voting is 85/15 then I stand by it being closer to 90%.

You got Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Carmelo, Duncan. That's 83%, I said close to 90%, not exactly 90%.

JordansBulls
01-14-2010, 09:00 PM
I'd say Johnson falls into the great player who isn't a superstar.

Plenty of players are in this level, some a bit higher, some a bit lower, but considering that the voting is 85/15 then I stand by it being closer to 90%.

You got Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Carmelo, Duncan. That's 83%, I said close to 90%, not exactly 90%.

Dwight??? Durant??? CP3??? Rose??? Mo???:D

SteveNash
01-14-2010, 09:07 PM
Dwight??? Durant??? CP3??? Rose??? Mo???:D

Dwight isn't the first option. Durant and Paul are borderline. Rose and Mo no.

Hawkeye15
01-14-2010, 11:11 PM
2nd option

JordansBulls
01-14-2010, 11:55 PM
Dwight isn't the first option. Durant and Paul are borderline. Rose and Mo no.

I can agree with that.

Tony_Starks
01-15-2010, 01:25 AM
Where is the love? How long was ATL completely obscure before he came there? Not one and done playoffs... Not even making playoffs... OBSCURE!


He's also proved he can be a role player in Phoenix, on a winning team... OR be the main guy, again on a winning team. The key is winning. If thats not franchise what is?

JordansBulls
01-15-2010, 01:47 AM
Where is the love? How long was ATL completely obscure before he came there? Not one and done playoffs... Not even making playoffs... OBSCURE!


He's also proved he can be a role player in Phoenix, on a winning team... OR be the main guy, again on a winning team. The key is winning. If thats not franchise what is?

Most franchises have high and low points. Atlanta just made the 2nd round since 1997.

KG2TB
01-15-2010, 02:13 AM
Dwight isn't the first option. Durant and Paul are borderline. Rose and Mo no.

Since when is Durant not a first option?

PHX2daDEATH
01-15-2010, 02:27 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head there. Johnson is a pretty all-around talented offensive player, pairing him with a good post scorer would produce good results.

it happened already and it only lasted one year

PaleHose
01-15-2010, 09:25 AM
Lord knows that the Chicago Bulls are hoping that Joe Johnson can be a superstar.

JordansBulls
01-15-2010, 09:35 AM
Lord knows that the Chicago Bulls are hoping that Joe Johnson can be a superstar.

He will be 30 next year. If you weren't a superstar before that you sure won't be one at 30.

PaleHose
01-15-2010, 10:39 AM
He will be 30 next year. If you weren't a superstar before that you sure won't be one at 30.

Didn't you start this thread? :confused: It seems like you already knew the answer to your own question...

Anyway, Johnson doesn't turn 29 until late June, so let's not get ahead of ourselves in terms of Johnson being "old". If you include the numbers that he's put up thus far this season, he's posted 5 consecutive seasons of averaging 20+ points and a 43%+ FG%. Those are fairly studly averages.

JordansBulls
01-15-2010, 04:10 PM
Didn't you start this thread? :confused: It seems like you already knew the answer to your own question...

Anyway, Johnson doesn't turn 29 until late June, so let's not get ahead of ourselves in terms of Johnson being "old". If you include the numbers that he's put up thus far this season, he's posted 5 consecutive seasons of averaging 20+ points and a 43%+ FG%. Those are fairly studly averages.

I'm not basing it on his age at the moment. I'm basing it on how good he has been.
It's like if I asked if Kevin Garnett is a franchise player, the answer would be yes, but it doesn't mean at the moment he is because of his age.