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View Full Version : Vince Carter to get Orlando over the hump?



nbafan63
01-06-2010, 10:24 PM
So Orlando replaced Hedo with Vince Carter to take them to the promise land. The problem is, I don't think Vince will even get them half way to the Finals. LOL. This guy freaking sucks. 39% on the season at 15 shots a game. Last month shooting 34%. How you going to the finals with your #1 option shooting under 40%. UGly shot after ugly shot. Don't play D, don't run. Jog up and down. Joking around when getting crushed by the Pacers Dleaguers. I feel sorry for you Orlando Fans.

heyman321
01-06-2010, 10:47 PM
Andddddd Raptors steal one in Orlando. Word!!

carter15
01-06-2010, 10:53 PM
Let's see what happens when it matters...it's still only game 40 or wtv.

Wiz kids
01-06-2010, 10:53 PM
Isn't the phrase "over the hump"?

carter15
01-06-2010, 10:54 PM
Isn't the phrase "over the hump"?

LOL didnt even notice that.

clutchski
01-06-2010, 10:54 PM
Vince is clutch when he needs to be. He's lackadaisical though..had that personality for a couple years now at least.

Jays Claw
01-06-2010, 10:59 PM
Should they have just kept Hedo Turkoglu? He fits in their system and has great chemistry with all the core players. All in all, the Orlando Magic are going through some tough times nowadays. I'm pretty sure they will get over their slump and get back to winning. It ain't fair to put the entire blame on Vince Carter because the team as a whole are responsible.

Slimsim
01-06-2010, 11:00 PM
Was wondering when The VC bashing thread would come.

shep33
01-06-2010, 11:00 PM
Ya bad move by Orlando... I like VC, but Turkoglu was a perfect fit for Orlando... I mean they made it to the finals without Jameer Nelson, plus this year they added Bass, Barnes and Williams, who are all pretty solid. He doesn't look too good out there, anyone thinks he looks kinda heavy??

RapToronto95
01-06-2010, 11:03 PM
Vince is clutch when he needs to be. He's lackadaisical though..had that personality for a couple years now at least.

This

shep33
01-06-2010, 11:03 PM
Heck I think Ariza woulda fit great in Orlando too, they gambled on VC and it doesn't look too great now, mostly b/c of his injuries and the offense gets out of sync too much with him shooting contested jumpers. I hope he turns it on though, VC at times can be great, but i dunno just not fitting in too well.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-06-2010, 11:05 PM
For the most part, he's doing what I expected.

He's not really putting up THAT much better numbers than Turk was last year and doesn't have the same role so it's a cause for concern. He was brought in to be a dynamic scorer but his FG% says otherwise.

amos1er
01-06-2010, 11:08 PM
I called this back in July...I knew that Vince was a **** up and would only weaken Orlando. He is a club house cancer, plain and simple. I too feel sorry for you Orlando fans.............well, not really. ;)

clutchski
01-06-2010, 11:12 PM
I called this back in July...I knew that Vince was a **** up and would only weaken Orlando. He is a club house cancer, plain and simple. I too feel sorry for you Orlando fans.............well, not really. ;)

lol me neither :up:

Jays Claw
01-06-2010, 11:15 PM
^ Please tell me how Vince Carter weakens Orlando?

They are currently the third seed in the Eastern Conference.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-06-2010, 11:17 PM
Lol.

Some Raptors fans need to get their head out of their ***.

Just because we beat them ONCE doesn't make us superior to the Magic.

They still hold a 3-1 record to us this year.

And they are 3rd in the East.

amos1er
01-06-2010, 11:22 PM
^ Please tell me how Vince Carter weakens Orlando?

They are currently the third seed in the Eastern Conference.

3RD SEED IN THE EAST!!! :facepalm::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


THATS A ****ING JOKE BRO...considering how the fourth seed and on are less than .500

The Eastern Conference is like the Junior Varsity of the NBA :facepalm:

aman_13
01-06-2010, 11:22 PM
Lol.

Some Raptors fans need to get their head out of their ***.

Just because we beat them ONCE doesn't make us superior to the Magic.

They still hold a 3-1 record to us this year.

And they are 3rd in the East.

No one said anything about the Raptors being better than the Magic.

Jays Claw
01-06-2010, 11:24 PM
Some Raptors fans need to get their head out of their ***.

Just because we beat them ONCE doesn't make us superior to the Magic.

They still hold a 3-1 record to us this year.

And they are 3rd in the East.

It seems as if you and I are the only Raptor fans who think this. I still don't understand how Vince Carter weakens the Orlando Magic. Sure their offense looks distorted but does everyone not see that they are the third seed? In my opinion, Hedo Turkoglu was the better fit but Vince Carter was the better player. The Orlando Magic have lost three games in a row. That doesn't sum up their season. They are a better team than the Toronto Raptors and they will get better as the playoffs creep closer.

Jays Claw
01-06-2010, 11:26 PM
No one said anything about the Raptors being better than the Magic.

However, as you can see, there are a couple of people who think so in this thread.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-06-2010, 11:26 PM
It seems as if you and I are the only Raptor fans who think this. I still don't understand how Vince Carter weakens the Orlando Magic. Sure their offense looks distorted but does everyone not see that they are the third seed? In my opinion, Hedo Turkoglu was the better fit but Vince Carter was the better player. The Orlando Magic have lost three games in a row. That doesn't sum up their season. They are a better team than the Toronto Raptors and they will get better as the playoffs creep closer.

The ONE win the Raptors got over the Magic has gone to their heads.

They are in the same spot as they were last year. They ended up in the Finals. Carter is also injured for the last 5 or so games. He still made this game close.

I guess us 2 are the only ones who actually thinking today.

Jays Claw
01-06-2010, 11:29 PM
^ You got that right.

Raoul Duke
01-06-2010, 11:33 PM
Orlando will be fine. When your team is so deep that Brandon Bass and Marcin Gortat aren't playing, you don't have much to worry about.

VC is a better player than Turk, while Turk was a better fit. It shouldn't be a problem though when you look at the team. It's not like they need VC to win games for them. They can have Lewis, Nelson and Howard do that. Or at least, that's who should be doing it for them.

clutchski
01-06-2010, 11:37 PM
Lol.

Some Raptors fans need to get their head out of their ***.

Just because we beat them ONCE doesn't make us superior to the Magic.

They still hold a 3-1 record to us this year.

And they are 3rd in the East.

That's not very nice.

None of us have our heads in our *****. I don't know what raptor fans think we're better than Orlando anyway lol.

amos1er
01-06-2010, 11:39 PM
Orlando will be fine. When your team is so deep that Brandon Bass and Marcin Gortat aren't playing, you don't have much to worry about.

VC is a better player than Turk, while Turk was a better fit. It shouldn't be a problem though when you look at the team. It's not like they need VC to win games for them. They can have Lewis, Nelson and Howard do that. Or at least, that's who should be doing it for them.

That has yet to be seen...Lets see if they can even make the finals this year...What was their record last year at this time with Turk in the line up again. :rolleyes:

Jays Claw
01-06-2010, 11:41 PM
^ Are you seriously saying Hedo Turkoglu is a better player than Vince Carter!? :facepalm:

clutchski
01-06-2010, 11:44 PM
I'd say it's at least arguable when comparing this years stats between the two players.

Yanks All Day
01-06-2010, 11:48 PM
I have gotten to watch most of the Magic games this year, and I really don't think this team resembles last year's Finals team. They struggle to move the ball, cannot feed the ball inside, and when they do, Howard simply lacks the offensive prowess to finish. Shaq shut Howard down and took him out of the game. That shouldn't happen at this point in their careers. This team is alot of "pass the ball around the perimeter and wait for a 3" and in the end, they have to make a run to keep the game in reach. Believe it or not, the ball moves much better with Jason Williams, JJ Redick, and Vince Carter as the 1-2-3, rather than Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, and Matt Barnes (the regular starters). Last year, Hedo provided late game heroics and made up for the Magic's lack of ball moving ability. Carter gets very trigger happy from about 19-20 feet out and continues to shoot when he is clearly ice cold. I believe much of the blame should go to Stan Van Gundy, as he refuses to budge from his regulars. Play Redick 25 minutes a game, he knows how to move the ball and is becoming a good NBA player. Get Gortat on the floor, he provides a versatile big man who has a better offensive game than Howard (and I mean play 2 7 footers at the same time), and yes, Jameer Nelson is good, but he is not a very good point guard and looks to shoot more than he passes. Let a more pass-happy point guard get some minutes, like Williams. Point is, this team has underutilized some very good weapons it has, and really needs to realize that when you live by the 3, you die by the 3. Hedo really made that much of a difference and helped create the mismatches that dominated Cleveland. Now, there is no mismatch, since VC doesn't play the same way Hedo does. Without an inside game or anyone to move the ball around, this offense is too stagnant and the defense is simply not good enough for Orlando to compete with Cleveland and Boston for the entire season and in the playoffs.

nbafan63
01-06-2010, 11:57 PM
^ Are you seriously saying Hedo Turkoglu is a better player than Vince Carter!? :facepalm:

You obviously do not watch the Orlando Magics. If you do there is no way you can even ask that question. Vince Carter this yr is not the Vince Carter of the past (half man half human). He has had 16 games under 15 points and 1 game over 30 points. He shoots 15+shots a game at 38% clip. Name another starter SG in the NBA that shoots 15+shots at 38%. Michael Redd is the only other one and he was coming off the bench from injury (starting now). Vince Carter takes on avg the most shot attempts a game. Dwights shot attempt is down and he is avg career low in points.

Vince Carter jacks up some of the ugliest shots I have ever seen. Bad shots after bad shots. He looks out of shape, he doesn't run...more like jog. He shoots fade away 3s with a hand in his face. He is 9 for 48 over last 4 games. He doesn't play defense, can't really keep his man in front of him. He doesn't go to the free throw line as much because he is busy chucking up brick 3s. He gets paid 20mill to suck.

Yah, I'm sure he'll get better (i dont know how he cant get any worse really), but still...this is the piece that is going to get them over the hump? Doesn't matter if he hits big shots at end of the game when he goes 1-8 in the beginning of the game. I'll put money down they don't go to the finals this year.

And yes, Hedo is a better fit AND a better player TODAY. VC has been going down hill for last couple of years. And you can REALLY see it this year.

Jays Claw
01-07-2010, 12:02 AM
^ Vince Carter is the better player overall. He may not be as consistent this year but man, I would take Vince Carter in his prime over Hedo Turkoglu in his prime any day. There shouldn't even be a discussion about it.

Tha Truth
01-07-2010, 12:06 AM
I have gotten to watch most of the Magic games this year, and I really don't think this team resembles last year's Finals team. They struggle to move the ball, cannot feed the ball inside, and when they do, Howard simply lacks the offensive prowess to finish. Shaq shut Howard down and took him out of the game. That shouldn't happen at this point in their careers. This team is alot of "pass the ball around the perimeter and wait for a 3" and in the end, they have to make a run to keep the game in reach. Believe it or not, the ball moves much better with Jason Williams, JJ Redick, and Vince Carter as the 1-2-3, rather than Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, and Matt Barnes (the regular starters). Last year, Hedo provided late game heroics and made up for the Magic's lack of ball moving ability. Carter gets very trigger happy from about 19-20 feet out and continues to shoot when he is clearly ice cold. I believe much of the blame should go to Stan Van Gundy, as he refuses to budge from his regulars. Play Redick 25 minutes a game, he knows how to move the ball and is becoming a good NBA player. Get Gortat on the floor, he provides a versatile big man who has a better offensive game than Howard (and I mean play 2 7 footers at the same time), and yes, Jameer Nelson is good, but he is not a very good point guard and looks to shoot more than he passes. Let a more pass-happy point guard get some minutes, like Williams. Point is, this team has underutilized some very good weapons it has, and really needs to realize that when you live by the 3, you die by the 3. Hedo really made that much of a difference and helped create the mismatches that dominated Cleveland. Now, there is no mismatch, since VC doesn't play the same way Hedo does. Without an inside game or anyone to move the ball around, this offense is too stagnant and the defense is simply not good enough for Orlando to compete with Cleveland and Boston for the entire season and in the playoffs.

You made a few key points.

What Orlando misses with Hedo is his playmaking ability. He was the man that ran the show for Orlando. Like you said Jameer looks for his offensive game which is where Hedo stepped in and played that point-forward position and ran the offensive. Hedo was sually the one who dumped it in to Howard and set him up with those alley-oops and Hedo was the one who broke down the defense off the dribble and found the shooters. So Orlando really does miss Hedo.

On the other hand, Orlando is a lot deeper this year and they have added a few players so they are still trying to click and build up that team chemistry. I think once Van Gundy gets comfortable with a rotation the team will start to play to their potential because they really do have a lot of weapons.

Jays Claw
01-07-2010, 12:10 AM
And yes, Hedo is a better fit and a better player as of today. VC has been going down a hill for the last couple of years. And you can really see it this year.

Hedo Turkoglu: 33 Games, 33.0 MPG, 13.5 PPG, 4.5 APG, 4.6 RPG.

Vince Carter: 30 Games, 31.6 MPG, 18.1 PPG, 3.2 APG, 4.8 RPG.

amos1er
01-07-2010, 12:10 AM
^ Are you seriously saying Hedo Turkoglu is a better player than Vince Carter!? :facepalm:

All I'm saying is that the Magic were a better team with Hedo than with Vince. Vince is a good individual talent, but he is a club house cancer. He underachieves wherever he goes. When he was paired with Jason Kid and Richard Jefferson, he couldn't even pass the second round in the weak east once. Now he had been added to a team that made the finals last year and they are worse off for picking him up. Anyone who is stupid enough to make a sig bet with me that Orlando wont make the finals this year...I accept.

Jays Claw
01-07-2010, 12:11 AM
And yes, Hedo is a better fit and a better player as of today. VC has been going down a hill for the last couple of years. And you can really see it this year.

Hedo Turkoglu: .43% FG, .40% 3FG, 81% FT.

Vince Carter: .39% FG, .31% 3FG, 86% FT.

amos1er
01-07-2010, 12:11 AM
Hedo Turkoglu: 33 Games, 33.0 MPG, 13.5 PPG, 4.5 APG, 4.6 RPG.

Vince Carter: 30 Games, 31.6 MPG, 18.1 PPG, 3.2 APG, 4.8 RPG.

Field Goal % ??????

Team Record ???????

GodsSon
01-07-2010, 12:14 AM
i'll agree that Hedo was a better fit for Orlando

thedfactor
01-07-2010, 12:15 AM
No. Hedo > VC for the magic.

I also liked and enjoyed watching Orlando games more with Hedo.

and Courtney Lee too.

ManRam
01-07-2010, 12:19 AM
Ask any Magic fan here. I've been hard on him all year. Frankly, he hasn't provided us anything that Hedo didn't do. I wanted him to be a go-to scorer who would stop our scoring droughts that result so frequently (due to three point shooting). Rather than being the consistent scorer, he's reverted into a sub 40% shooter, who would rather jack up bad shot after bad shot than attack and create.

This is not the Vince of old. Hell, it's not the Vince of last year. I have no idea why he's sucking so much, but I'm fed up. I'm officially convinced he hasn't been an upgrade over Hedo at all. He isn't doing anything that Hedo didn't due.

I've been whining for months now. Glad to see the world is realizing his crapiness.


And Yanks All Day. Despite being a Yankee fan, you should get your butt into the Magic forum. Good stuff you just posted.

blastmasta26
01-07-2010, 12:19 AM
No. Hedo > VC for the magic.

I also liked and enjoyed watching Orlando games more with Hedo.

and Courtney Lee too.
Yeah, everytime I've seen the Magic play, I've seen little ball movement and bad shot selection.

Jays Claw
01-07-2010, 12:20 AM
Hedo Turkoglu was a better fit for the Orlando Magic. Also, he would have been the better player for them. However, Vince Carter is a better player overall. Looking at the stats, I would have to say Hedo Turkoglu is having the better season on a .500 team. Vince Carter isn't having a great season because one, he has been injured on most occasions and two, because of the other weapons the Orlando Magic have. He doesn't have to be the number one option on most night's because of that.

blastmasta26
01-07-2010, 12:20 AM
Ask any Magic fan here. I've been hard on him all year. Frankly, he hasn't provided us anything that Hedo didn't do. I wanted him to be a go-to scorer who would stop our scoring droughts that result so frequently (due to three point shooting). Rather than being the consistent scorer, he's reverted into a sub 40% shooter, who would rather jack up bad shot after bad shot than attack and create.

This is not the Vince of old. Hell, it's not the Vince of last year. I have no idea why he's sucking so much, but I'm fed up. I'm officially convinced he hasn't been an upgrade over Hedo at all. He isn't doing anything that Hedo didn't due.

I've been whining for months now. Glad to see the world is realizing his crapiness.


And Yanksallday. Despite being a Yankee fan, you should get your butt into the Magic forum. Good stuff you just posted.
His struggles are surprising me too, I expected him to actually step it up and play much better in Orlando.

SteveNash
01-07-2010, 12:24 AM
I thought they'd be better, but not make the ECF this year. I was definitely wrong. Orlando is far worse this year. If anything it's probably because the players are already starting to tune out SVG.

smith&wesson
01-07-2010, 12:25 AM
carter just had a bad game. he has been injured.
and its not like turk has playing amazing. he too has been injured and didnt have an amazing start to the season. he starting to play better but you cant say he has been playing better then carter.

orlando is a very deep team and i think they could beat boston in the play offs. magic vs cavs would be interesting though.

dev0
01-07-2010, 12:26 AM
as if Hedo's doing any better...

kblo247
01-07-2010, 12:34 AM
Hedo is a better Magic fit and Vince is a better Raptor fit

The Raptors need someone who doesn't control the ball and just likes to shoot and finish with Calederon and Jack both healthy.

The Magic need someone to control the ball because Jameer simply put isn't good enough to do it. He got hot last year, nothing more and simply put the Magic miss Hedo being the ball handler and clutch shooter. It also doesn't hurt that Hedo was bigger and while not a great defender, his size helped hide Rashard and Jameer more than Barnes, Pietrius, or VC can.

I say trade them for one another and be done with it

micash
01-07-2010, 12:42 AM
get over it raptor fans!! Magis is still number three -- and it is not fair to completely blame VC. Lets' see, Hedu cant do and just had 1 good game to date -- actually that sounds good (HEDU CANT DO). Wait until March where the raps are and well talk then.

The magic are in a slump, the Celtics, Lakers, Suns and the other top teams went through this recently. they will get over it.

Yanks All Day
01-07-2010, 12:49 AM
The comparison I have seen most here is Hedo vs. Vince straight up as players. Listen, without a doubt, VC in his prime is light years better than Hedo in his prime. He was the heir to Jordan, Vinsanity, Half Man Half Amazing. Key word: was. This debate is VC past his prime vs Hedo in his prime and HOW THEY FIT IN THE MAGIC SYSTEM. Hedo fit much better into the system than Vince does. Like I said before, Hedo provided the ball movement for a team that relies on passing it around the perimeter and hitting open jumpers. VC does not look to pass as much, and settles for 19-20 foot jump shots when he should be driving and creating lay-ups and dunks for Howard, whose offensive ineptitude sometimes negates his defensive prowess. From what I have seen, which is about 28-30 games of the Magic this year, NONE of the starters look to pass at all. I still believe Jameer Nelson is a shooting guard in the point guard position. Jameer is a shoot first guard, Vince is a shoot first guard who should drive more than he shoots, Barnes should not start at all, Rashard Lewis barely dribbles at all and looks for that 3 too much, and Howard has little to no offensive game whatsoever. The Jason Williams/ JJ Redick backcourt should get 20 minutes a game at least. You have two very good passing guards, one who can hit jumpers on occasion and one who was one of the greatest college shooters EVER and is finally coming into his own in the NBA. That would make up for the lack of movement, as both guards often look to get it inside to Dwight or find the open player, rather than jack up contested shots. Point being after that rant: Everything they are lacking and everything that I am suggesting would be fixed by that lineup switch, is everything Hedo provided last year for this team. Cleveland was LOST last year against the Magic. LeBron had to guard Hedo, leaving Z to single cover Dwight, and Varejao on Lewis. Clearly, other than LeBron, those were huge mismatches on the front court. This year, Shaq has already completely taken Howard out of the game once, and they can double him if they want. Varejao has the ability to cover Lewis one on one, but last year was forced to help inside on D12, leading to open shots for Lewis in the corner very often. LeBron can cover Rashard fairly easily without having to worry about Hedo, and leave Varejao, Z, and Shaq to rotate on Howard. Delonte West is a very good defensive guard and can fairly easily limit VC to long jump shots, which he seems more inclined in settling for this season, the reason for that being beyond me. Cleveland now matches up very well with Orlando, and Boston also has a very good team to match up with the Magic, especially with Sheed's history of great one on one defense on Howard. Its not always about who is the better player, but about how they integrate into certain systems and make the players around them better. The way I see it, VC is not as good as Hedo in regards to their respective roles with the Magic.

Jays Claw
01-07-2010, 12:59 AM
I say trade them for one another and be done with it.

No thanks. :p

I'd rather have Hedo Turkoglu on the Raptors than Vince Carter simply because of the chemistry the team has developed. Hedo Turkoglu finally seems to be comfortable playing around Andrea Bargnani, Chris Bosh, DeMar DeRozan, Jose Calderon and Jarrett Jack.

There was a thread in the off season that asked whether the Orlando Magic were going to be better with Vince Carter. Many people said they were going to be better while I said they wouldn't. A lot of people ripped and bashed on me, only to soon find out they were wrong.

Kakaroach
01-07-2010, 01:03 AM
Like I said all off-season, Hedo just fits their style of play more. Not to mention the mismatches he creates.

Still, Vince is a great player but I don't see him putting the Magic over the top. If anything, it'll be their amazing depth.

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 01:04 AM
^ Vince Carter is the better player overall. He may not be as consistent this year but man, I would take Vince Carter in his prime over Hedo Turkoglu in his prime any day. There shouldn't even be a discussion about it.


Are you playing fantasy 2004 VC vs 2010 Hedo? If you are, I take 2002 Shaq over 2010 Dwight. Point is, this is now 2010, not what VC was. And Orlando Magic obvious thought they were getting the old VC, and not the current VC. You can say the same for Michael Redd and TMac. Go trade for Tmac and say TMAC is greater than Hedo. He was, thats for sure, but not now buddy, not now.

Jays Claw
01-07-2010, 01:09 AM
^ I strongly suggest you read my other comments. I know Hedo Turkoglu is having a better season than Vince Carter. I wouldn't have it any other way since I'm a Raptor fan. I'm not afraid to come out and say I was wrong. As of now, Hedo Turkoglu is the better player and is more valuable to his team.


Hedo Turkoglu > Vince Carter

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 01:10 AM
Hedo Turkoglu was a better fit for the Orlando Magic. Also, he would have been the better player for them. However, Vince Carter is a better player overall. Looking at the stats, I would have to say Hedo Turkoglu is having the better season on a .500 team. Vince Carter isn't having a great season because one, he has been injured on most occasions and two, because of the other weapons the Orlando Magic have. He doesn't have to be the number one option on most night's because of that.

No one says he has to be the #1 option. But even if you are the 2nd or 3rd option, you can't be shooting 38% on 15 attempts. And its not like he is missing good looks. He chucks up so nasty ***** shots. The degree of difficulty is ridiculous.

RaptorizedKevin
01-07-2010, 01:12 AM
LOL ur bashing vc? ur dumb son.. When it comes the Playoff time, see how sick VC is. i dont care if he acts lazy or makes the magic looose, they can beat any team they want.

RaptorizedKevin
01-07-2010, 01:12 AM
No one says he has to be the #1 option. But even if you are the 2nd or 3rd option, you can't be shooting 38% on 15 attempts. And its not like he is missing good looks. He chucks up so nasty ***** shots. The degree of difficulty is ridiculous.

hes been playing through injuries. stop hating bro.

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 01:18 AM
LOL ur bashing vc? ur dumb son.. When it comes the Playoff time, see how sick VC is. i dont care if he acts lazy or makes the magic looose, they can beat any team they want.

Kobe will TEAR UP VC. VC has grandmama ankles, he might not even play in the playoff if his ankle is this fragile. He tweaks it or roll it every other game almost.

Raph12
01-07-2010, 02:16 AM
They are probably the worst third seed ever, they have played horrible basketball all season long, now that they're finally losing games, people are starting to notice.

Chemistry isn't going to come overnight, they'll be ready when it counts.

King P
01-07-2010, 03:41 AM
Kobe will TEAR UP VC.
Negative. VC always outplays Kobe when they face off.

King P
01-07-2010, 03:42 AM
This is just a case of VC being VC. As a Nets fan, I had the pleasure of watching my favorite NBA player for the past 5 years. That's just how he is. He has games where he leaves you amazed, and he has games where you just wanna choke him.

Don't worry, come playoff time VC will show up.

Bulls_fan90
01-07-2010, 04:05 AM
A player hate thread that's not about Derrick Rose:speechless:

Also "over the bump" :facepalm:

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 04:08 AM
A player hate thread that's not about Derrick Rose:speechless:

Also "over the bump" :facepalm:

get out of here troll.

Tha Truth
01-07-2010, 04:10 AM
Another way you can look at it is he is on the best team he has ever played on talent wise so you can say he is "coasting" right now (which I'm sure Magic fans woldn't want to hear)

Also the injury factor.

But it has always been a consistency thing for VC throughout his career. And that is why is has not got "over the bump" (LOL) to be mention with the NBA's top players. He definitely has the talent.

ink
01-07-2010, 04:15 AM
Another way you can look at it is he is on the best team he has ever played on talent wise so you can say he is "coasting" right now (which I'm sure Magic fans woldn't want to hear)

Also the injury factor.

But it has always been a consistency thing for VC throughout his career. And that is why is has not got "over the bump" (LOL) to be mention with the NBA's top players. He definitely has the talent.

But he definitely needs to visit the Wizard to see about that heart. 2/7 tonight for 7 points. Great pickup. ;)

Tha Truth
01-07-2010, 04:54 AM
Maybe he will be able to have a good game against Washington on Friday.

But it is a problem when Jose Calderon's assist total is greater than VC's point total :

Calderon 8 assists
Carter 7 points

JJ_JKidd
01-07-2010, 05:44 AM
Presenting.... the Orlando Magic....... Starring........

1. Vince Carter - Doesnt run or play defense. Likes to shoot the threes. Period.

2. Jameer Nelson and Jayson Williams - the Real heart and soul of the franchise. Ball-hog PGs at its best.

3. Dwight Howard - Doesnt know how to get mad. Doesnt know how to voice out his frustrations. Hes an Elite Big with balls that of a 5-year old prick. His favorite part of the season? The slam-dunk contest. Why? Because its fun! Thats what matters to him-- having fun!

4. Stan Van-Gundy- Your definition of a control freak! Treats players like a bunch of HS basketball team. Compared to Phil Jackson whos got the same face, the same voice when talking to the Lakers regardless if they are up 20 or down 20.

toovey107
01-07-2010, 06:18 AM
I will never understand the love for a lazy ball hog

VC has never won anything in his career and has sucked major balls this year.

His time has come and passed and I guarantee the Magic will not win anything with him there.

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 07:38 AM
I will never understand the love for a lazy ball hog

VC has never won anything in his career and has sucked major balls this year.

His time has come and passed and I guarantee the Magic will not win anything with him there.

Historically there has never been a championship team whos #1 option shoots 39% from the field. Its just never happened. I mean why is Vince even taking that many shots? Do you know how many rebounds D12 needs to grab to help theirs guards build a brick castle?

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 07:42 AM
4. Stan Van-Gundy- Your definition of a control freak! Treats players like a bunch of HS basketball team. Compared to Phil Jackson whos got the same face, the same voice when talking to the Lakers regardless if they are up 20 or down 20.


Anyone else think SVG and JeffVG are just 2 fantasy basketball nerds who play around with numbers and think they know how to build a championship team? Because after almost half a season, SVG still doesn't know what's his best starting lineup. Its pathetic. He has 1 offense - shoot the 3. I don't see too many curls and screens to get shooters open 2s. Its inside to D12 and kickout for a 3. Its pretty pathetic. You got a team full of talent and you run pathetic play like that. They will get their a@@ spanked this yr in the playoffs.

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 08:00 AM
I will never understand the love for a lazy ball hog

VC has never won anything in his career and has sucked major balls this year.

His time has come and passed and I guarantee the Magic will not win anything with him there.

Too bad all anyone every remembers is his great slam dunk performance. That's about the only thing he has won.

The thing that I don't get is...you go from a lotto team to a contender. Playing in front of your hometown where you grew up. Its like Chauncey going back to Denver. Maybe your getting older and you cant score like you used to, fine. But hustle and contribute. Go body up in the paint and grab a few boards (look at matt barnes, dude hustles every minute on the court, although he don't have much talent or skills). Get your team mates involved and dish a few asst. Play some D and get some steals and blks, and if you are wide open, take the shot.

But NOOOOO...VC gotta be crazy. Gotta go iso- xover...xover...fadeaway 3 with hand in his face. You hit it and you look like a stud, and when you miss you look like a moron. And more so or not he looks like a moron. Then he makes that ******** face like..what...wheres my foul, and don't even hustle back to play some D. I used to not understand why people said VC has no heart, and after watching him this season. I understand perfectly. Dude is a showboat. He is a team killer because when he shoots 3 for 20, he doesn't really do anything to make up for it. Not like Kobe or Wade when they have an off shooting night, they go out and grab you boards, gets some stls and blks. Anything to offset the bad shooting. VC just go on and keep chucking and let team team mates do the dirty work while he puts up bricks.

Sly Guy
01-07-2010, 09:09 AM
I think we raptor fans should cut him a break this time. Clearly, the magic team is good enough to support his terrible FG%, which is more than can be said for our .500 team.

JordansBulls
01-07-2010, 09:31 AM
They will be better prepared for Cleveland this year as now they have a much better team and backcourt than having that terrible backcourt last year.

Mman
01-07-2010, 09:39 AM
I heard he is taking night school classes and if they do make the finals he will have to maybe miss a game to go to his graduation.

On a serious note the Magic will be fine ,every time struggles .

Gibby23
01-07-2010, 12:28 PM
They will be better prepared for Cleveland this year as now they have a much better team and backcourt than having that terrible backcourt last year.

The Magic won in 6, and they didn't make it look hard.

Yanks All Day
01-07-2010, 01:05 PM
They will be better prepared for Cleveland this year as now they have a much better team and backcourt than having that terrible backcourt last year.

They are actually less prepared for Cleveland right now. Basketball is a game of match ups. Last year, they completely dominated Cleveland, outside LeBron, because of the match up problems. If anything, Cleveland's additions of Shaq and Moon make them much better prepared for Orlando, not the other way around. As was stated before, there is no ball movement on this team, no match up problem with the loss of Hedo, and thus far they have played a bad schedule and are finally starting to show their flaws as teams get tougher.

macc
01-07-2010, 01:37 PM
I guess I don't get as worked up so easily and as fast as other people. I guess I'm realistic when it comes to sports.

So in being "realistic" you have to ask yourself this. How great can a team be when it's had nothing but injuries and suspensions all year? Think about it.

The Magic have..

1) Added 5 new players
2) Had Lewis suspended for 10 games
3) Ton of injuries
4) Still haven't figured out the starting 5 or standard rotation


The Magic have had less then 7 games will all their players in uniform. You add that with everything mentioned above and how much chemistry would you expect this team to have?

I mean really. It takes time to develop chemistry. It takes time to find a rotation that works best for your team.

Now if this were Feb and my team is still playing like crap then I'll be more critical of them but I'm not going to crucify my team that has all their starters for just a handful of games to not be running a perfect offense/defense.

This thread has always cracked me up because of how fast people jump on/off bandwagons of teams, players..ect. I wish this site was called the "what have you done for me lately.com" because that's all people remember. The Magic now have lost 3 games in a row and now they're a bad team and were better last year and don't have a chance and Vince is old and slow...yada yada yada. I just sit back and laugh. We'll just see what happens in the playoffs.

Going back to my point about how fast people jump on/off bandwagons.

Cleveland was getting crap because they started the season off slow. People said they were garbage and Shaq would kill their team this year....well guess what, they are now 2nd in the East.

People looked at San Antonio's roster and said they were favorites along side LA in the West to get to the finals and win, then they started losing in the beginning of the season and people jumped off their bandwagon and started giving them crap, well now look, they are doing pretty good lately.

People were saying the Atlanta Hawks were an elite team, then they lose somthing like 3-5 in a row and people start hating on them.

People loved Rose, then hated him, then love him again.

Same with Rondo.

I just laugh at how people will just bag a player/team as soon as they hit a bad streak. It just shows me the ignorance in this forum.

Newsflash, winning streaks happen, losing streaks happen. It happens to all teams. Let something play out before you judge.

People say Turk was a better fit but I remember last year how much Turk was getting bashed for being inconsistant on offense and not a great defender. Now this year people act like we let go of Michael Jordan and picked up Harold Minor.

So saying what I said earlier. If this is Feb and my team is losing to bad teams then I'll be more critical of them but I'm going to be a "realistic fan" and let them play fully healthy together for a few weeks before I give a full good/bad review on them. The team obviously has the talent, it's just playing together/finding chemsitry and a rotation that makes us play at our best.

But since we are 3rd in the east I'm not going to lose any sleep over it and "panic" like other people. I'll just continue to sit back and laugh and see what happens in the playoffs.

loudif31
01-07-2010, 01:39 PM
Some good points in this thread guys.

For the record, I am a Raptors fan, but I'm trying to be subjective here. The Magic is 3rd in the conference. I won't argue that Toronto is a better team. They aren't at this point. but the Raps are starting to click just now so we'll see how things pan out.

IMO, the big story here is that VC is taking a great number of shots away from Howard - the franchise player. VC is shooting a terrible %, Horward traditionally shots well from the field (%57 career). This is a concern for Orlando.

In terms of VC vs Hedo, is it really about who is the better player or who is the better fit? Hedo is great at moving the ball as we have seen in Toronto this year. VC is a good passer who tends to chuck up a ton of shots. I've only seen a few Orlando games this season to be fair, but does VC even drive to the hoop more than Hedo at this point?

theuuord
01-07-2010, 01:46 PM
But he definitely needs to visit the Wizard to see about that heart. 2/7 tonight for 7 points. Great pickup. ;)

We can make a long list of Hedo's bad games as a Raptor if you want. And that's not even highlighting how porous he is defensively.

What's crazy is that Carter is having the worst shooting and passing year of his career, and you can still say he's more valuable than Hedo.

theuuord
01-07-2010, 01:47 PM
Gotta love how Raptors fans get their jollies from seeing VC have a bad game. It's not like it was, you know, seven years ago that he'd had enough of the worst front office in NBA history.

I love sports fans.

GodsSon
01-07-2010, 02:21 PM
Gotta love how Raptors fans get their jollies from seeing VC have a bad game. It's not like it was, you know, seven years ago that he'd had enough of the worst front office in NBA history.

I love sports fans.

i'd look in the mirror at the front office of your 3-32 nets before i even try calling out any other teams FO...worst record in history? its possible

pebloemer
01-07-2010, 02:23 PM
I guess I don't get as worked up so easily and as fast as other people. I guess I'm realistic when it comes to sports.

So in being "realistic" you have to ask yourself this. How great can a team be when it's had nothing but injuries and suspensions all year? Think about it.

The Magic have..

1) Added 5 new players
2) Had Lewis suspended for 10 games
3) Ton of injuries
4) Still haven't figured out the starting 5 or standard rotation


The Magic have had less then 7 games will all their players in uniform. You add that with everything mentioned above and how much chemistry would you expect this team to have?

I mean really. It takes time to develop chemistry. It takes time to find a rotation that works best for your team.

Now if this were Feb and my team is still playing like crap then I'll be more critical of them but I'm not going to crucify my team that has all their starters for just a handful of games to not be running a perfect offense/defense.

This thread has always cracked me up because of how fast people jump on/off bandwagons of teams, players..ect. I wish this site was called the "what have you done for me lately.com" because that's all people remember. The Magic now have lost 3 games in a row and now they're a bad team and were better last year and don't have a chance and Vince is old and slow...yada yada yada. I just sit back and laugh. We'll just see what happens in the playoffs.

Going back to my point about how fast people jump on/off bandwagons.

Cleveland was getting crap because they started the season off slow. People said they were garbage and Shaq would kill their team this year....well guess what, they are now 2nd in the East.

People looked at San Antonio's roster and said they were favorites along side LA in the West to get to the finals and win, then they started losing in the beginning of the season and people jumped off their bandwagon and started giving them crap, well now look, they are doing pretty good lately.

People were saying the Atlanta Hawks were an elite team, then they lose somthing like 3-5 in a row and people start hating on them.

People loved Rose, then hated him, then love him again.

Same with Rondo.

I just laugh at how people will just bag a player/team as soon as they hit a bad streak. It just shows me the ignorance in this forum.

Newsflash, winning streaks happen, losing streaks happen. It happens to all teams. Let something play out before you judge.

People say Turk was a better fit but I remember last year how much Turk was getting bashed for being inconsistant on offense and not a great defender. Now this year people act like we let go of Michael Jordan and picked up Harold Minor.

So saying what I said earlier. If this is Feb and my team is losing to bad teams then I'll be more critical of them but I'm going to be a "realistic fan" and let them play fully healthy together for a few weeks before I give a full good/bad review on them. The team obviously has the talent, it's just playing together/finding chemsitry and a rotation that makes us play at our best.

But since we are 3rd in the east I'm not going to lose any sleep over it and "panic" like other people. I'll just continue to sit back and laugh and see what happens in the playoffs.

Excellent points.

theuuord
01-07-2010, 02:25 PM
i'd look in the mirror at the front office of your 3-32 nets before i even try calling out any other teams FO...worst record in history? its possible

um, the Nets aren't trying to build a contender this year. They're trying to lose. Notice they traded their best player (Mr. Carter) to free up cap space. The Nets had 12 players injured in the first 35 games and they already sucked as a basketball team.
The Nets as a basketball franchise are doing exactly what they want to be doing. A billionaire owner is coming. Brooklyn is coming. A guaranteed top 4 pick in the draft (and possibly the best PG in the draft since Chris Paul) is coming. The best FA class possibly in NBA history is coming. There is a LOT to be excited for as a Nets fan.

What does Toronto have other than the guarantee that Chris Bosh is leaving and an ungodly contract for Hedo Turkoglu? Franchise player Andrea Bargnani?
Good luck, I guess...

Being able to think in both the short-term and the long-term is a necessity for a basketball team and its fans. Toronto could do neither. VC wanted out because of it.

GodsSon
01-07-2010, 02:38 PM
1. um, the Nets aren't trying to build a contender this year. They're trying to lose. Notice they traded their best player (Mr. Carter) to free up cap space. The Nets had 12 players injured in the first 35 games and they already sucked as a basketball team.
The Nets as a basketball franchise are doing exactly what they want to be doing. A billionaire owner is coming. Brooklyn is coming. A guaranteed top 4 pick in the draft (and possibly the best PG in the draft since Chris Paul) is coming. The best FA class possibly in NBA history is coming. There is a LOT to be excited for as a Nets fan.

2. What does Toronto have other than the guarantee that Chris Bosh is leaving and an ungodly contract for Hedo Turkoglu? Franchise player Andrea Bargnani?
Good luck, I guess...

3. Being able to think in both the short-term and the long-term is a necessity for a basketball team and its fans. Toronto could do neither. VC wanted out because of it.

1. So having the most dubious record in NBA history is supposed to entice a top-flight FA to sign with you? Nets fans better hope thats the case, or its going to be a very disappointing summer...especially if you dont land John Wall as well...

2. What guarantee do you have that Bosh leaves? are you Chris? Or do you have some type of "inside source" like ESPN and other American media outlets have saying Bosh is going to miami?

3. The VC era is done in Toronto, and has been for a while...We've moved on just fine without him, but im not sure i could say the same for the Nets...just bank on Lebron signing on the dotted line.

Gibby23
01-07-2010, 02:41 PM
um, the Nets aren't trying to build a contender this year. They're trying to lose. Notice they traded their best player (Mr. Carter) to free up cap space. The Nets had 12 players injured in the first 35 games and they already sucked as a basketball team.
The Nets as a basketball franchise are doing exactly what they want to be doing. A billionaire owner is coming. Brooklyn is coming. A guaranteed top 4 pick in the draft (and possibly the best PG in the draft since Chris Paul) is coming. The best FA class possibly in NBA history is coming. There is a LOT to be excited for as a Nets fan.

What does Toronto have other than the guarantee that Chris Bosh is leaving and an ungodly contract for Hedo Turkoglu? Franchise player Andrea Bargnani?
Good luck, I guess...

Being able to think in both the short-term and the long-term is a necessity for a basketball team and its fans. Toronto could do neither. VC wanted out because of it.

The Nets were losers with Vince and Kidd for the last 2 years. They were never that good, they had a pretty good run in the east in the early 2000's but got beat in the finals pretty bad and thay only won 50 games or over once this decade (52 wins), and the east has been pretty top heavy for the past 2 years and pretty average the rest of the decade. The Nets are no winners and they have not shown that they have a great FO.

theuuord
01-07-2010, 02:44 PM
1. So having the most dubious record in NBA history is supposed to entice a top-flight FA to sign with you? Nets fans better hope thats the case, or its going to be a very disappointing summer...especially if you dont land John Wall as well...

yup, it'll be disappointing if we don't get anyone. Luckily we're in a much better position to land great players than almost every team. NY, Chicago, and Miami are three solid competitors. Toronto is not.


2. What guarantee do you have that Bosh leaves? are you Chris? Or do you have some type of "inside source" like ESPN and other American media outlets have saying Bosh is going to miami?

lol. hold on to that dream as long as you can. good luck.


3. The VC era is done in Toronto, and has been for a while...We've moved on just fine without him, but im not sure i could say the same for the Nets...just bank on Lebron signing on the dotted line.

You've moved on, huh? Last I checked you can't help but boo relentlessly every time he touches the ball. you guys have been hurt for way too long and have never gotten over it. It's pathetic.

Chronz
01-07-2010, 02:48 PM
The comparison I have seen most here is Hedo vs. Vince straight up as players. Listen, without a doubt, VC in his prime is light years better than Hedo in his prime. He was the heir to Jordan, Vinsanity, Half Man Half Amazing. Key word: was. This debate is VC past his prime vs Hedo in his prime and HOW THEY FIT IN THE MAGIC SYSTEM. Hedo fit much better into the system than Vince does. Like I said before, Hedo provided the ball movement for a team that relies on passing it around the perimeter and hitting open jumpers. VC does not look to pass as much, and settles for 19-20 foot jump shots when he should be driving and creating lay-ups and dunks for Howard, whose offensive ineptitude sometimes negates his defensive prowess. From what I have seen, which is about 28-30 games of the Magic this year, NONE of the starters look to pass at all. I still believe Jameer Nelson is a shooting guard in the point guard position. Jameer is a shoot first guard, Vince is a shoot first guard who should drive more than he shoots, Barnes should not start at all, Rashard Lewis barely dribbles at all and looks for that 3 too much, and Howard has little to no offensive game whatsoever. The Jason Williams/ JJ Redick backcourt should get 20 minutes a game at least. You have two very good passing guards, one who can hit jumpers on occasion and one who was one of the greatest college shooters EVER and is finally coming into his own in the NBA. That would make up for the lack of movement, as both guards often look to get it inside to Dwight or find the open player, rather than jack up contested shots. Point being after that rant: Everything they are lacking and everything that I am suggesting would be fixed by that lineup switch, is everything Hedo provided last year for this team. Cleveland was LOST last year against the Magic. LeBron had to guard Hedo, leaving Z to single cover Dwight, and Varejao on Lewis. Clearly, other than LeBron, those were huge mismatches on the front court. This year, Shaq has already completely taken Howard out of the game once, and they can double him if they want. Varejao has the ability to cover Lewis one on one, but last year was forced to help inside on D12, leading to open shots for Lewis in the corner very often. LeBron can cover Rashard fairly easily without having to worry about Hedo, and leave Varejao, Z, and Shaq to rotate on Howard. Delonte West is a very good defensive guard and can fairly easily limit VC to long jump shots, which he seems more inclined in settling for this season, the reason for that being beyond me. Cleveland now matches up very well with Orlando, and Boston also has a very good team to match up with the Magic, especially with Sheed's history of great one on one defense on Howard. Its not always about who is the better player, but about how they integrate into certain systems and make the players around them better. The way I see it, VC is not as good as Hedo in regards to their respective roles with the Magic.

Mother of god this may be a great post but Ill be damned if I take the time to read it. If you dont separate your points it looks like a bunch of run on sentences for all I know.

Basically we know all about the system theory, VC is still an upgrade on Hedo. Though he has been playing like **** of late, but Im certain he will turn it around. Hes not the same youngster he used to be, back2backs and rough schedule patches really effect his game. Luckily you dont have those in the playoffs so no there is no buyers remorse just yet.



There was a thread in the off season that asked whether the Orlando Magic were going to be better with Vince Carter. Many people said they were going to be better while I said they wouldn't. A lot of people ripped and bashed on me, only to soon find out they were wrong.
LOL

GodsSon
01-07-2010, 02:55 PM
1. yup, it'll be disappointing if we don't get anyone. Luckily we're in a much better position to land great players than almost every team. NY, Chicago, and Miami are three solid competitors. Toronto is not.



2. lol. hold on to that dream as long as you can. good luck.



You've moved on, huh? Last I checked you can't help but boo relentlessly every time he touches the ball. you guys have been hurt for way too long and have never gotten over it. It's pathetic.

1. Toronto is in a better situation then the teams you just mentioned...we dont need the cap-room to sign anyone when we already have a solid core....Bosh re-signing would just further solidify that

2. I'll hold onto it as long as Nets fans hold onto the delusional thought that a top flight FA would sign with a team coming fresh off a possible historic feat of failure

3. What does booing have to do with moving on as a franchise? Did the franchise roll over and take it for 6 years? did VC's departure doom us? even with the horrible package we received for him our FO has done pretty well year in and year out to build a competitive team; and thats including some bad picks along the way...if anything, our FO has consistently shown its committed to winning

PHX2daDEATH
01-07-2010, 02:55 PM
I really thought Orlando was going to be the best team in the East when the Season started... now im not even sure they are the third best team, Dwight is only getting 17 a game??? are you kidding me...! this guy should be averaging 8 more points a game atleast..

theuuord
01-07-2010, 03:01 PM
1. Toronto is in a better situation then the teams you just mentioned...we dont need the cap-room to sign anyone when we already have a solid core....Bosh re-signing would further solidify that

3. What does booing have to do with moving on as a franchise? Did the franchise roll over and take it for 6 years? did VC's departure doom us? even with the horrible package we received for him our FO has done pretty well year in and year out to build a competitive team; and thats including some bad picks along the way...if anything, our FO has consistently shown its committed to winning

LMAO. quote of the century. Since Carter left the Raptors have been a perenially average team. Nobody cares about teams that stay around .500 all the time. Since 2004 (the year Carter left) the Raptors have had the COMMITMENT TO WINNING record of.... 199-247. In the last four years they've had the stellar, memorable record of 139-143. The pinnacle of averageness.

But yeah, two first round exits, no future with the current "solid" (re: average) core, and no real cap position to move forward with any new star players really screams "commitment to winning."


2. I'll hold onto it as long as Nets fans hold onto the delusional thought that a top flight FA would sign with a team coming fresh off a possible historic feat of failure

Do you really believe that the Raptors have a better chance of signing one of the star FA's than the Nets do? Hell, take Bosh (who's maybe 8-1 to re-sign) out of the equation. Who's going to Toronto?

GodsSon
01-07-2010, 03:15 PM
1. LMAO. quote of the century. Since Carter left the Raptors have been a perenially average team. Nobody cares about teams that stay around .500 all the time. Since 2004 (the year Carter left) the Raptors have had the COMMITMENT TO WINNING record of.... 199-247. In the last four years they've had the stellar, memorable record of 139-143. The pinnacle of averageness.

But yeah, two first round exits, no future with the current "solid" (re: average) core, and no real cap position to move forward with any new star players really screams "commitment to winning."



2. Do you really believe that the Raptors have a better chance of signing one of the star FA's than the Nets do? Hell, take Bosh (who's maybe 8-1 to re-sign) out of the equation. Who's going to Toronto?

1. Its funny hearing a Nets fan talk about being perennially average when the Nets have historically been a HORRIBLE team other then those 2 good years early in the decade...yes, Toronto has had their lulls since VC left, yet we somehow always seem to land on our feet; we pulled the most prized FA off the market this past summer in a bold move to show that same commitment...you must be a psychic though to say that the current Raptor squad has no "future"; are games won in your head? or on the court?...as for the cap situation, i already explained it, if Bosh re-signs we already have the necessary pieces to do some damage in the east, adding a few more via trades and the MLE wont hurt either; and its better then banking on FA and taking it every night like the Nets do.

2. The Raptors dont need to bank on signing a top flight FA considering one of the main three already plays on our team...what are the odds that LeBron signs with you over New York? Or Wade?...considering NYC is across the river, and Jersey is a veritable wasteland, i'd bet most players would be more enticed playing in the Big Apple...like i said, hope that one of them signs with your team; because at this point thats all Nets fans can do...HOPE

macc
01-07-2010, 03:22 PM
Why are people debating Nets vs Raptors? Mods where you at...

Gibby23
01-07-2010, 03:24 PM
LMAO. quote of the century. Since Carter left the Raptors have been a perenially average team. Nobody cares about teams that stay around .500 all the time. Since 2004 (the year Carter left) the Raptors have had the COMMITMENT TO WINNING record of.... 199-247. In the last four years they've had the stellar, memorable record of 139-143. The pinnacle of averageness.

But yeah, two first round exits, no future with the current "solid" (re: average) core, and no real cap position to move forward with any new star players really screams "commitment to winning."



Do you really believe that the Raptors have a better chance of signing one of the star FA's than the Nets do? Hell, take Bosh (who's maybe 8-1 to re-sign) out of the equation. Who's going to Toronto?
Since 2004-2005 the Nets have a record of 200-210 and that is with teams that had Kidd, Jefferson, and Carter. That is pretty bad and that is saying something because it was some of the best years for the franchise.

theuuord
01-07-2010, 03:33 PM
1. Its funny hearing a Nets fan talk about being perennially average when the Nets have historically been a HORRIBLE team other then those 2 good years early in the decade...yes, Toronto has had their lulls since VC left, yet we somehow always seem to land on our feet; we pulled the most prized FA off the market this past summer in a bold move to show that same commitment...you must be a psychic though to say that the current Raptor squad has no "future"; are games won in your head? or on the court?...as for the cap situation, i already explained it, if Bosh re-signs we already have the necessary pieces to do some damage in the east, adding a few more via trades and the MLE wont hurt either; and its better then banking on FA and taking it every night like the Nets do.

I'd rather have two great years and ten terrible ones than 12 unremarkably average years like the Raptors have had.
Since Carter left the Raptors the Nets have made it to the conference semis twice. The Raptors have been kicked out of the first round twice. Once by those same Nets, who actually had a worse record than the Raptors during the season - ouch!

But go ahead, please explain the genius of your franchise FO, leading you nowhere without Vince Carter and giving Carter no help his entire tenure.

(Seriously, Antonio freaking Daniels as a second option? Every time I say it I can't help but laugh. Carter averaged more than twice as many points per game as anyone else on his team while scoring more efficiently than anyone else on his team. I don't think any star on a playoff team in HISTORY has had a worse supporting cast year in and year out.)

If the Raptors already have one of the major pieces in Bosh, and they're STILL only .500, AND they have no cap room in the near future (assuming the unlikely in that they re-sign Bosh, and if they don't, they're toast, because no one else is going to Toronto), how are they going to suddenly transform into greatness?

I also love the "psychic" quote, when you were the one who started the projections:


i'd look in the mirror at the front office of your 3-32 nets before i even try calling out any other teams FO...worst record in history? its possible

are you a hypocrite, unintelligent, or both?


2. The Raptors dont need to bank on signing a top flight FA considering one of the main three already plays on our team...

Yes they do, because they're .500 with him now, and the chances of him re-signing aren't very good (although, to be fair, it's a better chance he re-signs than any major FA signs with them).


what are the odds that LeBron signs with you over New York? Or Wade?...considering NYC is across the river, and Jersey is a veritable wasteland, i'd bet most players would be more enticed playing in the Big Apple...like i said, hope that one of them signs with your team; because at this point thats all Nets fans can do...HOPE

Nets are actually moving to the Big Apple soon. The Bonds have been sold and the train station to Barclays is being built now. And at least the Nets can hope for greatness. All Raptors fans can legitimately hope for is another decade of .500.

theuuord
01-07-2010, 03:34 PM
Since 2004-2005 the Nets have a record of 200-210 and that is with teams that had Kidd, Jefferson, and Carter. That is pretty bad and that is saying something because it was some of the best years for the franchise.

They've had higher peak years and have been structured for the long-term, as opposed to the Raptors, who are structured for mediocrity. This season is not a season that the Nets are trying to win. They are doing exactly what they're supposed to.

Jay_Dub
01-07-2010, 03:40 PM
Keep it on topic ... this is getting ridiculous. VC has no heart ... is old and washed up. I saw a dunk last night in the highlights and he barely got off the ground. Don't make this thread about something it's not suppose to be.

JordansBulls
01-07-2010, 03:43 PM
Keep it on topic ... this is getting ridiculous. VC has no heart ... is old and washed up. I saw a dunk last night in the highlights and he barely got off the ground. Don't make this thread about something it's not suppose to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQAxaGLxsIw

AI says VC has heart at 32-06 to 32-51 mark

GodsSon
01-07-2010, 03:53 PM
1. I'd rather have two great years and ten terrible ones than 12 unremarkably average years like the Raptors have had.
Since Carter left the Raptors the Nets have made it to the conference semis twice. The Raptors have been kicked out of the first round twice. Once by those same Nets, who actually had a worse record than the Raptors during the season - ouch!

2. But go ahead, please explain the genius of your franchise FO, leading you nowhere without Vince Carter and giving Carter no help his entire tenure.

(Seriously, Antonio freaking Daniels as a second option? Every time I say it I can't help but laugh. Carter averaged more than twice as many points per game as anyone else on his team while scoring more efficiently than anyone else on his team. I don't think any star on a playoff team in HISTORY has had a worse supporting cast year in and year out.)

3. If the Raptors already have one of the major pieces in Bosh, and they're STILL only .500, AND they have no cap room in the near future (assuming the unlikely in that they re-sign Bosh, and if they don't, they're toast, because no one else is going to Toronto), how are they going to suddenly transform into greatness?

I also love the "psychic" quote, when you were the one who started the projections:



are you a hypocrite, unintelligent, or both?



Yes they do, because they're .500 with him now, and the chances of him re-signing aren't very good (although, to be fair, it's a better chance he re-signs than any major FA signs with them).



4. Nets are actually moving to the Big Apple soon. The Bonds have been sold and the train station to Barclays is being built now. And at least the Nets can hope for greatness. All Raptors fans can legitimately hope for is another decade of .500.

1. And yet the Nets still accomplished nothing in those 2 great years...as a matter of fact they're accomplished absolutely nothing in their 33 year existence...more then double the amount of time the Raptors have existed...pretty pathetic

2. If i have to correct you on the player name (Antonio Davis not Daniels) that already tells me you're shooting from the hip and no nothing about the Raptors...and its funny you choose to rip Davis too when he had some solid years in TO and made the all-star game once, making the conference semi's once and were one shot away from the ECF...which is a lot closer then a supposed superior core of Kidd/Jefferson/Carter ever did

3. It's called growing as a team and gelling, the Hawks have had the same core for a few years and only really turned it up this season; whereas the Raptors current squad has only played just under half a season...i'm glad you love the psychic quote, and i like to think of myself as a pretty intelligent individual because where we differ is that you're assuming the Raptors current core will not achieve anything; whereas my statement about the Nets record is factual as they're currently on pace to win less then 9 games a year and attain that record of futility...pay attention next time

4. Again showing the blind hope that Nets fan can really only have, assuming a move to Brooklyn will turn around their fortunes...blind faith is what led the Peoples Temple to the jungles of Guyana to follow Jim Jones; would you like some more kool-aid sir??

theuuord
01-07-2010, 04:09 PM
1. And yet the Nets still accomplished nothing in those 2 great years...as a matter of fact they're accomplished absolutely nothing in their 33 year existence...more then double the amount of time the Raptors have existed...pretty pathetic

The Nets have made it to two Finals, three EC semifinals, and six playoffs total in the past decade. The Raptors made it to one EC semifinals (thanks entirely to Carter) and were knocked out in the first round four other times.

Go Raptors?


2. If i have to correct you on the player name (Antonio Davis not Daniels) that already tells me you're shooting from the hip and no nothing about the Raptors...

lmao I always mix those two up. Sorry. Replace Daniels with Davis every time. Point stands.


and its funny you choose to rip Davis too when he had some solid years in TO and made the all-star game once, making the conference semi's once and were one shot away from the ECF...

LMAO. This gets better and better. Davis was a hack who shot a lot because nobody outside of Carter could shoot. He never shot higher than 44% in his prime with the Raptors - and it was an empty 44%, because he couldn't make threes. He was a decent rebounder, but is that really what you want from your second offensive option?

The year the Raptors made it to the second round, Carter averaged twice as many points as Davis (the second-best scorer on the team) while maintaining a much higher efficiency than anyone else on the team. Do you not get how rare that is? Nobody else on that team scored 10 points a game - and nobody could've handled the added role.

Go back and look at that team without Vince Carter. They would struggle to win maybe 18 games. It's truly unbelievable how bad that team was without him, and they were one missed shot from the ECF.


which is a lot closer then a supposed superior core of Kidd/Jefferson/Carter ever did

In a much tougher Eastern Conference. The Cavs team that the Nets faced would have eaten that Raptors team for dinner.


3. It's called growing as a team and gelling, the Hawks have had the same core for a few years and only really turned it up this season; whereas the Raptors current squad has only played just under half a season

The Hawks got better this season pretty much because Josh Smith figured out that no one wants him shooting 3's. The whole "gelling" as a team is overrated. Just ask the 2008 Celtics.


...i'm glad you love the psychic quote, and i like to think of myself as a pretty intelligent individual because where we differ is that you're assuming the Raptors current core will not achieve anything; whereas my statement about the Nets record is factual as they're currently on pace to win less then 9 games a year and attain that record of futility...pay attention next time

And my quote about the Raptors record is that they're a team who has been under .500 the last 4 and the last 6 years, and that they are a .500 team now (18-18). Thus, they are similarly on pace to be a .500 team in the future.

Pay attention every time.


4. Again showing the blind hope that Nets fan can really only have, assuming a move to Brooklyn will turn around their fortunes...blind faith is what led the Peoples Temple to the jungles of Guyana to follow Jim Jones; would you like some more kool-aid sir??

lmao, sorry. The Raptors are really geared for a run at that championship! Go, team-that's-completely-mediocre-with-Chris-Bosh!

Stop trying to force-feed me your own kool-aid and throw the damn stuff away. You're clearly drunk with it.

Chronz
01-07-2010, 04:19 PM
Without picking sides, I gotta say the GodsSon Uuord debate gets better with each response, keep it cool guys

RadiantShot
01-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Lol, What is this? A thread of Orlando haters? How can everyone besides the Laker's talk? We've dominated every team in the league, and got to the NBA Finals last year. Did you? No, so don't come with that. Let's get this straight first, we aren't 'slumping.' We've lost 3 games in a row, difference, slumping is at least 7 or more, or in this case, take the nets for example, that's slumping. Second of all, this is Vince's first year here in Orlando, so chill, he still has a lot of work to do to build chemistry, and learn his place on the team, he won't be getting 30 shot attempts a game anymore like he used to with the Nets and Raptors. Our offense hasn't been great as of late, yet we continue to torch other teams, and the teams we lose to, we don't give enough credit. Our defense is fine, it's the offense that needs work, if you were an Orlando fan, you'd understand this. I'd much rather have Vince in the end of a game then Hedo, Hedo was my boy last season, but he wanted money, and we didn't have it, he almost won a title, but he was boneheaded about it, and left to a barely contending playoff team. The raptors if anything will be 6th-8th seeded this year. Vince Carter hasn't adjusted yet, but from all the years he's played in the league, he's always been a big scorer, he'll find his time, and he will start getting his points, without a doubt. I swear man, if people could pick the 1 most hated team in the league, people would pick the Magic. Day in and day out, biased calls, and a shitload of whining. Everytime someone says "Orlando sucks," they say it out of hatred, not because it's true, because it isn't. Get that straight before you go off talking without having a clue of what you're talking about. Tired of this bs.

GodsSon
01-07-2010, 04:35 PM
The Nets have made it to two Finals, three EC semifinals, and six playoffs total in the past decade. The Raptors made it to one EC semifinals (thanks entirely to Carter) and were knocked out in the first round four other times.

Go Raptors?

And yet they still accomplished nothing during those years, or in their entire existence as an NBA franchise; so my initial point stands...the Raptors havent either, but considering this is only their 15th year, they did pretty well during the early 2000's for being only 6-7 years old



LMAO. This gets better and better. Davis was a hack who shot a lot because nobody outside of Carter could shoot. He never shot higher than 44% in his prime with the Raptors - and it was an empty 44%, because he couldn't make threes. He was a decent rebounder, but is that really what you want from your second offensive option?

The year the Raptors made it to the second round, Carter averaged twice as many points as Davis (the second-best scorer on the team) while maintaining a much higher efficiency than anyone else on the team. Do you not get how rare that is? Nobody else on that team scored 10 points a game - and nobody could've handled the added role.

And yet the fact remains he was still selected to be an all-star reserve...it doesnt matter that Carter didnt have extra help, he still led the Raptors to within 1 shot of the East finals against the team who eventually went to the finals, which is more then the Nets accomplished


Go back and look at that team without Vince Carter. They would struggle to win maybe 18 games. It's truly unbelievable how bad that team was without him, and they were one missed shot from the ECF.

Moot point considering Carter was on the team...unless of course you want to continue on with your psychic ways...



In a much tougher Eastern Conference. The Cavs team that the Nets faced would have eaten that Raptors team for dinner.

....which i see you've done with this




The Hawks got better this season pretty much because Josh Smith figured out that no one wants him shooting 3's. The whole "gelling" as a team is overrated. Just ask the 2008 Celtics.

The Josh Smith component is only one piece to the puzzle; that entire Hawk team has matured, and they've continued to add veteran pieces like Crawford and Smith to a good young core; something you seem convinced that the Raptors can't duplicate




And my quote about the Raptors record is that they're a team who has been under .500 the last 4 and the last 6 years, and that they are a .500 team now (18-18). Thus, they are similarly on pace to be a .500 team in the future.

Pay attention every time.

More assumptions my friend, how's this for some? The Nets will have the worst record in NBA history this season, will not get John Wall in the draft, will get shafted by every major FA in the off-season and will suck for the next 33 years...good enough?



lmao, sorry. The Raptors are really geared for a run at that championship! Go, team-that's-completely-mediocre-with-Chris-Bosh!

Well they certainly have the building blocks necessary for building a championship contending team, but i'd be salty too if my team were the laughing stock of the league and was getting reamed every single game


Stop trying to force-feed me your own kool-aid and throw the damn stuff away. You're clearly drunk with it.

im simply trying to steer you from your clouded, disillusioned train of thought that the Nets are anywhere near NBA respectability

SteveNash
01-07-2010, 04:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQAxaGLxsIw

AI says VC has heart at 32-06 to 32-51 mark

What does AI know about having a heart?

His list is hilarious and he pretty much invalidates himself.

macc
01-07-2010, 04:51 PM
What does AI know about having a heart?

His list is hilarious and he pretty much invalidates himself.



What does AI know about having heart? Is that a serious question? He's been known for a long time to have some of the most heart in the NBA. Being as small as he is, taking hits everynight throughout his entire career and still putting up the numbers he has shows incredible heart.

How does he know who else has heart? Hmmmm lets think here. Maybe the fact that he's played against these guys for 13+ years, I don't know, that might be part of it.

I'll tell you one thing I'll take his word on other ball players over yours and anyone elses since hes the one going up against these guys on a night in and night out basis.

In short your reply was a fail.

theuuord
01-07-2010, 04:52 PM
And yet they still accomplished nothing during those years, or in their entire existence as an NBA franchise; so my initial point stands...the Raptors havent either, but considering this is only their 15th year, they did pretty well during the early 2000's for being only 6-7 years old

Thanks entirely to - yup! - Vince Carter. Go ahead, take him out of the Raptors franchise. Does their 15-year run then become the worst overall franchise in NBA history? To use your words, it's possible. quite possible.



And yet the fact remains he was still selected to be an all-star reserve...

The highest honor one can receive.


it doesnt matter that Carter didnt have extra help, he still led the Raptors to within 1 shot of the East finals against the team who eventually went to the finals, which is more then the Nets accomplished

Wait, what? The Nets have actually been to two Finals. I'd say that's better than losing to the team that made it to the Finals, wouldn't you?



Moot point considering Carter was on the team...unless of course you want to continue on with your psychic ways...

Seriously dude? This isn't a psychic thing. This is how we evaluate players. Unless you're assuming that every team exists a vacuum and we can't estimate how teams do with or without their key components.


....which i see you've done with this

Good one?



The Josh Smith component is only one piece to the puzzle; that entire Hawk team has matured, and they've continued to add veteran pieces like Crawford and Smith to a good young core; something you seem convinced that the Raptors can't duplicate

They can't without some serious maneuvering. The Raptors just simply aren't as good as the Hawks were. The biggest difference between the two is defense: The Hawks core has ranked in the top half of the league defensively the last few years, the Raptors have been in the bottom half and are dead last this year.



More assumptions my friend, how's this for some? The Nets will have the worst record in NBA history this season, will not get John Wall in the draft, will get shafted by every major FA in the off-season and will suck for the next 33 years...good enough?

what the hell are you talking about? you're the one who was making assumptions about the Nets record. I just took your game, went pro, and now you're crying about it.
Your team in its current standing has NO position to make a run for the future. You are a .500 club with no cap room, no draft position, and one superstar who is likely to walk after this season.

lol. you're so angry because your team is mediocre.



Well they certainly have the building blocks necessary for building a championship contending team, but i'd be salty too if my team were the laughing stock of the league and was getting reamed every single game

lmao, again, seriously? The Nets suck. Everyone knows they were going to suck this year. You're not insulting the Nets or upsetting anyone by saying that they're not good. They're not supposed to be good this year.

look in the mirror if you want "salty." I at least know my team isn't supposed to go anywhere this year. Stop deluding yourself into thinking the Raptors are in line to compete with the championship teams of the NBA. They're not.


im simply trying to steer you from your clouded, disillusioned train of thought that the Nets are anywhere near NBA respectability

They aren't right now. lol. again. the Nets franchise is about the future. you're not telling anybody anything. Honestly if the Nets are going to suck, might as well make it interesting and make a run at history.

You just sound really upset at learning the notion that the Raptors are the absolute definition of mediocrity. It's okay. Let it sink in. It won't hurt as much.

SteveNash
01-07-2010, 04:57 PM
What does AI know about having heart? Is that a serious question? He's been known for a long time to have some of the most heart in the NBA. Being as small as he is, taking hits everynight throughout his entire career and still putting up the numbers he has shows incredible heart.

How does he know who else has heart? Hmmmm lets think here. Maybe the fact that he's played against these guys for 13+ years, I don't know, that might be part of it.

I'll tell you one thing I'll take his word on other ball players over yours and anyone elses since hes the one going up against these guys on a night in and night out basis.

In short your reply was a fail.

AI plays for the stats and the fame. That's why you never see him do any dirty work and why he went off on his practice rant.

He lists his top guy as Shaq. A notorious slacker who only worked in the offseason if he was pissed off. That's the guy with the biggest heart in the NBA? Fail.

theuuord
01-07-2010, 05:01 PM
lmao @ the ridiculous assumption that only my argument relies on hopes and assumptions.

For the Raptors to succeeed, you have to:

A) Hope that Chris Bosh re-signs with a team with a horrible front office (unlikely)
B) Hope that Hedo "Mr. Average" Turkoglu doesn't get substantially worse in the next few years (unlikely)
C) Hope that DeMar DeRozan develops into a great player (unlikely, he may become a good one though)
D) Hope that Andrea Bargnani learns how to play defense on the block (nope)
E) Hope that something comes from a string of 12-18 draft picks (unlikely)


Face it dude. The Raptors have almost no chance of becoming a top contender. At least the Nets, as bad as they are now, have that future window.

RadiantShot
01-07-2010, 05:04 PM
AI plays for the stats and the fame. That's why you never see him do any dirty work and why he went off on his practice rant.

He lists his top guy as Shaq. A notorious slacker who only worked in the offseason if he was pissed off. That's the guy with the biggest heart in the NBA? Fail.

That's most definately why AI went back to a subpar Seventy-Sixer's ball club, right? If he wanted fame, he wouldn't even play basketball unless it was on a contending team. Never see him do dirty work? He was doing it for the seasons he was with the Sixers. Who did he have on that team? Think about it, for the most part, he had scrubs. Derrick Coleman, Aaron Mckie, Kyle Korver, what a great team AI had with him! Surprising there record was above 500 wasn't it! Iguodala didn't come until later when AI was getting ready to leave Philly.

macc
01-07-2010, 05:07 PM
AI plays for the stats and the fame. That's why you never see him do any dirty work and why he went off on his practice rant.

He lists his top guy as Shaq. A notorious slacker who only worked in the offseason if he was pissed off. That's the guy with the biggest heart in the NBA? Fail.


Ok fair enough, lets go with Shaq. Lets see, isn't he arguablly the most dominat center in NBA history? Do you think you could hold that title with no heart?

Think about that for a second..............nope keep thinking.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .......nope keep thinking.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. ..................................................


You will always have "hearsay" about basketball players. Actions speak louder then words. When Shaq was on the court he dominated everyone. Ya tell him that he doesn't have heart and see how that convo goes.


Then you bring up Iversons "practice" rant. That's funny how people actually fall for the media hype. You would think that a career of busting his ***** would show otherwise but people still take everything they see in the media to heart. "We're talking about an interview, not the game, not the game we love, an interview man"

arkanian215
01-07-2010, 05:14 PM
The Nets were losers with Vince and Kidd for the last 2 years. They were never that good, they had a pretty good run in the east in the early 2000's but got beat in the finals pretty bad and thay only won 50 games or over once this decade (52 wins), and the east has been pretty top heavy for the past 2 years and pretty average the rest of the decade. The Nets are no winners and they have not shown that they have a great FO.

true they've never been that good but in the 2000's they were much better than their 90's counter parts. their front office has been pretty good so far at least in recent memory. giving up scraps on a gamble for vc. that was nice. getting kidd was cool too. the three for one swap netted RJ who ended up better than eddie griffin. more recently they moved kidd for devin harris and two first rounders. not too bad i guess. rj for yi and expiring simmons. yi isnt good but isnt garbage. carter for courtney lee and expirings. the FO has done their job and well. their goal was to free up cap space for 2010 and they managed to do that in three years while offloading aging vets with pretty big contracts and got decent pieces in return. with the most cap space for 2010, a high lotto and a decent core group of harris, lopez and yi i think the FO has done great.

pebloemer
01-07-2010, 05:16 PM
Ok fair enough, lets go with Shaq. Lets see, isn't he arguablly the most dominat center in NBA history? Do you think you could hold that title with no heart?

Think about that for a second..............nope keep thinking.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .......nope keep thinking.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. ..................................................

You will always have "hearsay" about basketball players. Actions speak louder then words. When Shaq was on the court he dominated everyone. Ya tell him that he doesn't have heart and see how that convo goes.

Then you bring up Iversons "practice" rant. That's funny how people actually fall for the media hype. You would think that a career of busting his ***** would show otherwise but people still take everything they see in the media to heart. "We're talking about an interview, not the game, not the game we love, an interview man"

I had a discussion with someone in the Raptor's forum about "heart" before. I have a hard time believing that these players that are playing in the greatest basketball league in the world got to where they are without heart. Not every player is Michael Jordan, but to develop the skills and talents and succeed to the level that Vince, Iverson and Shaq have takes incredible heart and determination. Towards the end of their careers they may have lost some of that, but thats the toll of a long NBA career. I don't know how anyone can say those guys don't have heart. How many hours, days, weeks, months, years, etc etc have these guys invested in the game of basketball. You dont' do that without heart. I agree wholeheartedly (no pun intended).

GodsSon
01-07-2010, 05:18 PM
Wait, what? The Nets have actually been to two Finals. I'd say that's better than losing to the team that made it to the Finals, wouldn't you?

i meant the trio of Carter/Jefferson/Kidd since VC is the bridging point between both of our teams...they were supposed to be a superior team then the VC-led Raptors, yet never proved it...you can argue the East was tougher all you want, all that matters is the end result...



They can't without some serious maneuvering. The Raptors just simply aren't as good as the Hawks were. The biggest difference between the two is defense: The Hawks core has ranked in the top half of the league defensively the last few years, the Raptors have been in the bottom half and are dead last this year.

Their defence has begun to take some steps in the right direction, and the recent streak of winning 7 of their last 8, the last two being against very good teams in proof of that...they probably wont ever crack the top 10, but i can live with a top 20 rank



what the hell are you talking about? you're the one who was making assumptions about the Nets record. I just took your game, went pro, and now you're crying about it.

Thats just the thing, i wasnt making assumptions...my initial comment was that the Nets are on their way to having the worst season ever, and they are mathematically on pace to win less then 9 games...this is fact


Your team in its current standing has NO position to make a run for the future. You are a .500 club with no cap room, no draft position, and one superstar who is likely to walk after this season.

Again making assumptions...we are currently a .500 team, yet YOU assume we can not grow, and that Bosh WILL leave after the season...the only fact you've come up with is that the Raptors are .500 right now...yet have assumed we will continue to be for the next decade, and that Bosh will 100% walk away


lol. you're so angry because your team is mediocre.

I dont know about you, but im certainly not angry about anything lol...especially after consecutive wins against the Spurs and Magic...



lmao, again, seriously? The Nets suck. Everyone knows they were going to suck this year. You're not insulting the Nets or upsetting anyone by saying that they're not good. They're not supposed to be good this year.

Just as long as you know


look in the mirror if you want "salty." I at least know my team isn't supposed to go anywhere this year. Stop deluding yourself into thinking the Raptors are in line to compete with the championship teams of the NBA. They're not.

When did i ever say we were going to contend this year?? i know the Raptors will be hard-pressed to make it out of the first round, all i want to see is them fighting hard...that doesnt mean they cant build from a good outing, which you seem to think is beyond the realm of possibility




They aren't right now. lol. again. the Nets franchise is about the future. you're not telling anybody anything. Honestly if the Nets are going to suck, might as well make it interesting and make a run at history.

I did, and have made that point a few times that their 33 year history stinks


You just sound really upset at learning the notion that the Raptors are the absolute definition of mediocrity. It's okay. Let it sink in. It won't hurt as much.

there's nothing to sink in, like i said, i know we'll be hard-pressed to win anything this year and im ok with that...the roster Colangelo assembled wasnt meant to be championship contenders this year, top 5 in the East, yes; but not championship calibre...the point is to have the requisite building blocks to build a contender in the next few years, and i believe we're on the right track

arkanian215
01-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Since 2004-2005 the Nets have a record of 200-210 and that is with teams that had Kidd, Jefferson, and Carter. That is pretty bad and that is saying something because it was some of the best years for the franchise.

it's cuz of that record and rising costs that the nets ownership wanted to start dismantling. they knew their guys werent getting any younger and wouldnt be able to get the pieces they needed to keep it even at mediocrity. good choice on their part even though a large part of the decision was because the team couldn't make money and ratner wanted to move the team to brooklyn.

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 06:04 PM
Ok fair enough, lets go with Shaq. Lets see, isn't he arguablly the most dominat center in NBA history? Do you think you could hold that title with no heart?

Think about that for a second..............nope keep thinking.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .......nope keep thinking.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. ..................................................


You will always have "hearsay" about basketball players. Actions speak louder then words. When Shaq was on the court he dominated everyone. Ya tell him that he doesn't have heart and see how that convo goes.

Then you bring up Iversons "practice" rant. That's funny how people actually fall for the media hype. You would think that a career of busting his ***** would show otherwise but people still take everything they see in the media to heart. "We're talking about an interview, not the game, not the game we love, an interview man"

AI is a stats player, not a winner. Just about every great player like AI at this point of their career would sign on with a contender. What does AI do? Signs with Griz lies, then wants to go to NY. He just wants to go out and drop 30 on sub par team.

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 06:07 PM
That's most definately why AI went back to a subpar Seventy-Sixer's ball club, right? If he wanted fame, he wouldn't even play basketball unless it was on a contending team. Never see him do dirty work? He was doing it for the seasons he was with the Sixers. Who did he have on that team? Think about it, for the most part, he had scrubs. Derrick Coleman, Aaron Mckie, Kyle Korver, what a great team AI had with him! Surprising there record was above 500 wasn't it! Iguodala didn't come until later when AI was getting ready to leave Philly.


Don't you get it? He likes playing with scrubs. So he can have the ball 99% of the time and drop 30 every night. IF he wanted good teammates he would sign the MLE with a contending team. But no, he wants to play for the Knicks and the Grizlies. What the hell does that tell you.

theuuord
01-07-2010, 06:07 PM
i meant the trio of Carter/Jefferson/Kidd since VC is the bridging point between both of our teams...they were supposed to be a superior team then the VC-led Raptors, yet never proved it...you can argue the East was tougher all you want, all that matters is the end result...

LOL you really have no idea how to compare teams and players across eras. The Heat and the Cavs were both WAY more stacked in 06 than the EC was in 2001. Besides the Nets had the worst C in the last decade (Jason Collins) playing more frontcourt minutes than anyone else. They had no chance of winning with that.


Their defence has begun to take some steps in the right direction, and the recent streak of winning 7 of their last 8, the last two being against very good teams in proof of that...they probably wont ever crack the top 10, but i can live with a top 20 rank

The Raptors aren't top 20. They're not even top 29. They're last. Dead last. 30th in defensive efficiency. Out of 30 teams. They make up for it by having a great offense (and I give them credit for that), but their defense is terrible. No getting around it.



Thats just the thing, i wasnt making assumptions...my initial comment was that the Nets are on their way to having the worst season ever, and they are mathematically on pace to win less then 9 games...this is fact

OK. This is very, very basic. I'm going to break it down very simply, because you are clearly not understanding anything.

You made a "statement of fact" about the Nets record (their on-pace given their W-L).
I countered with a similar statement about the Raptors record (they are 18-18, on pace for .500, in line with their past 4-6 seasons).
I made the same statement you made, just about your team.

Get it?



Again making assumptions...we are currently a .500 team, yet YOU assume we can not grow, and that Bosh WILL leave after the season...the only fact you've come up with is that the Raptors are .500 right now...yet have assumed we will continue to be for the next decade, and that Bosh will 100% walk away

omg dude you're a walking contradiction. First you make a statement of "fact" about the Nets, then I make the same statement about the Raptors, and I'm "making assumptions."

Let's try this.

Again making assumptions...we are currently a 3-32 team, yet YOU assume we can not grow, and that the Nets will NOT get anyone after the season...the only fact you've come up with is that the Nets are terrible right now right now...yet have assumed we are a terrible franchise, and that the Nets are 100% in no position to get a top flight FA.


Sad to see your own hypocrisy blow up in your face, isn't it?


I dont know about you, but im certainly not angry about anything lol...especially after consecutive wins against the Spurs and Magic...

sure.



When did i ever say we were going to contend this year?? i know the Raptors will be hard-pressed to make it out of the first round, all i want to see is them fighting hard...that doesnt mean they cant build from a good outing, which you seem to think is beyond the realm of possibility

Again. Where are the Raptors building towards? They've been on the same .500 train, with the same .500 roster, and every change has been another mediocre addition for another .500 step. Hedo hasn't changed this franchise, he's such an average player he's molded into it.

The Nets fight hard too. They just suck right now. The difference between the two teams is that
A) our star player is 21 and under contract for three years, while your star player is soon to be 26 and has the option to walk away this season (and you hope that he re-signs)
B) our next offensive options are 22/23/26, two are under rookie contracts and the third is under a very reasonable contract for the next 5 years, your next options are 24/28/30 and all three are well overpaid (they will each be making over 10 mil/yr in a couple seasons)
C) the Nets just got a billionaire owner who has no issue spending for the team and are moving to a new stadium in Brooklyn, while the Raptors have nothing new and exciting to offer (note: Toronto is a pretty cool city, but it's not seeing NYC).
D) The Nets will have enough cap room next season to sign two maximum contracts, the Raptors don't even have room to sign one if Bosh leaves

I could go on, but...yeah.


I did, and have made that point a few times that their 33 year history stinks

Only rivaled by the Raptors 15 years of near complete futility. Jeez, imagine if they hadn't lucked into Vince Carter. (Hey, at least my team can claim 2 ABA titles.)


there's nothing to sink in, like i said, i know we'll be hard-pressed to win anything this year and im ok with that...the roster Colangelo assembled wasnt meant to be championship contenders this year, top 5 in the East, yes; but not championship calibre...the point is to have the requisite building blocks to build a contender in the next few years, and i believe we're on the right track

Again, what will make your team into a championship contender? Bosh is playing the best ball of his life, Hedo is still hanging on to the end of his prime, Bargnani is having a career year.... and you're still .500.

You don't have cap room. (The Nets do.)
You don't have extra draft picks. (The Nets do.)
You don't have tradeable contracts. (The Nets do, and have.)
You have $155 million in contracts tied up in four players (Jack, Calderon, Bargnani, Turkoglu) over the next six years. (Most of it in the next four.) (Also, the Nets don't.)
You have a core that's time and time again proven to play basketball at a .500 level. (Okay, the Nets don't have this either.)

How is your team going anywhere?

PHX2daDEATH
01-07-2010, 06:19 PM
Lol, What is this? A thread of Orlando haters? How can everyone besides the Laker's talk? We've dominated every team in the league, and got to the NBA Finals last year. Did you? No, so don't come with that. Let's get this straight first, we aren't 'slumping.' We've lost 3 games in a row, difference, slumping is at least 7 or more, or in this case, take the nets for example, that's slumping. Second of all, this is Vince's first year here in Orlando, so chill, he still has a lot of work to do to build chemistry, and learn his place on the team, he won't be getting 30 shot attempts a game anymore like he used to with the Nets and Raptors. Our offense hasn't been great as of late, yet we continue to torch other teams, and the teams we lose to, we don't give enough credit. Our defense is fine, it's the offense that needs work, if you were an Orlando fan, you'd understand this. I'd much rather have Vince in the end of a game then Hedo, Hedo was my boy last season, but he wanted money, and we didn't have it, he almost won a title, but he was boneheaded about it, and left to a barely contending playoff team. The raptors if anything will be 6th-8th seeded this year. Vince Carter hasn't adjusted yet, but from all the years he's played in the league, he's always been a big scorer, he'll find his time, and he will start getting his points, without a doubt. I swear man, if people could pick the 1 most hated team in the league, people would pick the Magic. Day in and day out, biased calls, and a shitload of whining. Everytime someone says "Orlando sucks," they say it out of hatred, not because it's true, because it isn't. Get that straight before you go off talking without having a clue of what you're talking about. Tired of this bs.


Props to the Magic for pounding Cleveland last year but don't forget the C's pushed you guys to 6 or 7 games without Garnett..

PHX2daDEATH
01-07-2010, 06:29 PM
One thing I'd like to add.. The raptors wont ever be great.. they have too many white guys..Call em foreign players if you want but they are still white and why have Bosh if you can't surround him with athleticism. You guys are .500 in the eastern conference to me thats under-acheiving, you should be better than Miami. As Much flack Steve Kerr has gotten in Phoenix.. I think Brian Colangelo deserves some in Toronto too.. you really dont know what your're getting scouting guys overseas. What happened to Calderon? And Wasn't Rozan supposed to be a stud? His name has been buried this year by Tyreke and Jennings.. If I had to pick a big name player leaving in 2010, it would be Bosh especially if he wants to hop on somewhere with Wade or Le'Bron.

Hedo is overrated and I was really hoping he'd go to the Blazers instead..

selassi3
01-07-2010, 06:41 PM
Okay, let me put into perspective for you all, Orlando had they had Turk instead of Vince right now given the current Roster, they would be a WAY better team. It is so clear, (i'm a Raptor fan you already kno TDOT!) that Orlando runs a lot of offence through Vince which he does take a lot more shots, It seems like Dwight isn't their main focus each and every night, w/e my opinion! :clap:LETS GO RAPTORSSSSSSSSSS:clap:

toovey107
01-07-2010, 06:43 PM
One thing I'd like to add.. The raptors wont ever be great.. they have too many white guys..Call em foreign players if you want but they are still white and why have Bosh if you can't surround him with athleticism. You guys are .500 in the eastern conference to me thats under-acheiving, you should be better than Miami. As Much flack Steve Kerr has gotten in Phoenix.. I think Brian Colangelo deserves some in Toronto too.. you really dont know what your're getting scouting guys overseas. What happened to Calderon? And Wasn't Rozan supposed to be a stud? His name has been buried this year by Tyreke and Jennings.. If I had to pick a big name player leaving in 2010, it would be Bosh especially if he wants to hop on somewhere with Wade or Le'Bron.

Hedo is overrated and I was really hoping he'd go to the Blazers instead..
What does color have to do with anything?

SteveNash
01-07-2010, 07:03 PM
That's most definately why AI went back to a subpar Seventy-Sixer's ball club, right? If he wanted fame, he wouldn't even play basketball unless it was on a contending team. Never see him do dirty work? He was doing it for the seasons he was with the Sixers. Who did he have on that team? Think about it, for the most part, he had scrubs. Derrick Coleman, Aaron Mckie, Kyle Korver, what a great team AI had with him! Surprising there record was above 500 wasn't it! Iguodala didn't come until later when AI was getting ready to leave Philly.

Imagine how good they'd have been if AI stopped being a cancer and actually cared about practice.

As for going back to Philadelphia. It's probably the only fan base delusional enough to still want him.


Ok fair enough, lets go with Shaq. Lets see, isn't he arguablly the most dominat center in NBA history? Do you think you could hold that title with no heart?

You will always have "hearsay" about basketball players. Actions speak louder then words. When Shaq was on the court he dominated everyone. Ya tell him that he doesn't have heart and see how that convo goes.


Then you bring up Iversons "practice" rant. That's funny how people actually fall for the media hype. You would think that a career of busting his ***** would show otherwise but people still take everything they see in the media to heart. "We're talking about an interview, not the game, not the game we love, an interview man"

I don't think you have to rely on hearsay to notice Shaq coming into training camp overweight. All his injury plagued season. We can argue how much heart Shaq had, but that's not the point. The fact is that he's not close to being number 1 making Iverson's list foolish.

Iverson's practice rant proved what type of player he was. It wasn't media hype, it was a fool who didn't understand the value of practice. Putting in work when the cameras are off proves you have more heart then flopping around on the court to draw fouls when the cameras are on.

Jay_Dub
01-07-2010, 07:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQAxaGLxsIw

AI says VC has heart at 32-06 to 32-51 mark

Haha ... I'm hoping that is a joke

lorenz00
01-07-2010, 07:45 PM
i think orlando magic are stronger with hedo turkoglu than VC cause of the play making skills of Hedo (Point forward) the shooting comparison says that hedo is a better shooter than VC

arkanian215
01-07-2010, 07:47 PM
One thing I'd like to add.. The raptors wont ever be great.. they have too many white guys..Call em foreign players if you want but they are still white and why have Bosh if you can't surround him with athleticism. You guys are .500 in the eastern conference to me thats under-acheiving, you should be better than Miami. As Much flack Steve Kerr has gotten in Phoenix.. I think Brian Colangelo deserves some in Toronto too.. you really dont know what your're getting scouting guys overseas. What happened to Calderon? And Wasn't Rozan supposed to be a stud? His name has been buried this year by Tyreke and Jennings.. If I had to pick a big name player leaving in 2010, it would be Bosh especially if he wants to hop on somewhere with Wade or Le'Bron.

Hedo is overrated and I was really hoping he'd go to the Blazers instead..

derozan was and is a project. it's nice that he's getting some pt and even starting games these days but he's a long way away from his potential. imo james harden was the most ready guy out of college this draft with good athletiticism and a good skillset. he could be a decent player if he needed to be the second or third option on the offensive end.

RadiantShot
01-07-2010, 08:52 PM
Honestly, all of you are saying that you think the Magic were better with Turkoglu, and I agree that we..."WERE.." Better with Turkoglu, but this is a long season, and we still have a long way to go, and our record is pretty much identical to last year at this time, so I don't see the true problem...If you want to go into the technicality, Vince was just replacing Hedo's roll, because Hedo left. Had Hedo not left, for the money purposes, we wouldn't have needed to bring in Vince. Vince was the 'needed' guy because Hedo left, why would we just let Hedo leave and not want to get another guy to help us out? It wouldn't make sense honestly. Don't worry though, in a few games, Orlando will get their act straight, and will come out of the 3 game 'slump.'

All I see from this thread now is Raptors and Nets fans bashing eachother for there subpar basketball teams. Don't get me wrong, both ball clubs were good and are good some of the time, but to bash eachother saying one is better then the other is simple downright hilarious. Keep that to a different conversation, if you want to argue about it, don't do it on a randomass thread that has nothing to do about Toronto, this is about Vince Carter, and the Orlando Magic, you can even throw Hedo in there because he is in the discussion, that's it. Don't mean to be hard on you guys, but both of you need to grow up, one of you show a sign of maturity above a 5th grade level, and stop all the bickering. Enough has been said!

nbafan63
01-07-2010, 10:30 PM
Honestly, all of you are saying that you think the Magic were better with Turkoglu, and I agree that we..."WERE.." Better with Turkoglu, but this is a long season, and we still have a long way to go, and our record is pretty much identical to last year at this time, so I don't see the true problem...If you want to go into the technicality, Vince was just replacing Hedo's roll, because Hedo left. Had Hedo not left, for the money purposes, we wouldn't have needed to bring in Vince. Vince was the 'needed' guy because Hedo left, why would we just let Hedo leave and not want to get another guy to help us out? It wouldn't make sense honestly. Don't worry though, in a few games, Orlando will get their act straight, and will come out of the 3 game 'slump.'

All I see from this thread now is Raptors and Nets fans bashing eachother for there subpar basketball teams. Don't get me wrong, both ball clubs were good and are good some of the time, but to bash eachother saying one is better then the other is simple downright hilarious. Keep that to a different conversation, if you want to argue about it, don't do it on a randomass thread that has nothing to do about Toronto, this is about Vince Carter, and the Orlando Magic, you can even throw Hedo in there because he is in the discussion, that's it. Don't mean to be hard on you guys, but both of you need to grow up, one of you show a sign of maturity above a 5th grade level, and stop all the bickering. Enough has been said!


This is a thread basically about VC and how much he sucks in Orlando and his half heart. This is not a 3 game slump. He has had 17 games in which he scored under 15 points. Yes he is on an AWESOME team with D12, Shard, and a great bench so he wont need to drop 20+ a night. But hey, if you take 15-20 shots on a great team like the Orlando Magics you SHOULD be dropping close to 20 just about every night. Its called EFFICIENCY. There is just no excuse to chuck up 39% for the season. Its not like your team mates are Dleaguers that you rather take the ugly fade away 3s by your self.
You can pass for some asst (asst down this yr even though he is surrounded with talent).

And for those who says ORlando is 3rd. Well guess what, Miami is 5th and is at ~.500 and they only have 1 good player in Dwade. Eastern Conf. is a joke. There is no excuse to lose to the Bulls and Pacers. Pacers didn't even have their #1&#2 player in Granger and Troy murphy. TJ ford didn't play either. Complete joke.

And for those of you who says VC will come around during the playoffs. Well then there you go, the man is half season half amazing with half a heart. If he can play like this in regular season and turn it up 5 knotches and become half amazing in the playoffs then he truely just doesn't give a crap right now. And what if this loser can't turn it on in the playoff? He will shoot his team out of the 1st round. Watch some NBA TV. Eric Snow always comment on VCs " Luckiest BAD SHOTs". When he makes those rediculous 5 ft behind 3 point fade aways, you go WOW. But when he misses those, he looks like a loser...same as Gilbert Arenas. I'm convinced players with Arenas and VC should play on lottery teams and just chuck away and try to look like a hero on some nights. Because they sure don't care too much about their shot selections.

ink
01-07-2010, 11:01 PM
We can make a long list of Hedo's bad games as a Raptor if you want. And that's not even highlighting how porous he is defensively.

What's crazy is that Carter is having the worst shooting and passing year of his career, and you can still say he's more valuable than Hedo.

I'm not comparing the two. Hedo is irrelevant to my comment. Vince needs a heart. I watched Carter from his very first games as a Raptor, and I watched his public persona too. I also saw him fake injuries. Nothing I've seen him do has shown much heart. I've seen him mail it in when he plays at home against the Raptors for example, and I've seen what a crowd of idiotic chanters in Toronto do to rile him up. But I haven't seen him find it all by himself. I understand that you say you have seen this with the Nets. I'll take your word for it. But it doesn't correspond to anything I've seen. And yes, it matters to me whether a player has heart. Most do, but from what I've seen, this is one player who doesn't.

RadiantShot
01-07-2010, 11:14 PM
This is a thread basically about VC and how much he sucks in Orlando and his half heart. This is not a 3 game slump. He has had 17 games in which he scored under 15 points. Yes he is on an AWESOME team with D12, Shard, and a great bench so he wont need to drop 20+ a night. But hey, if you take 15-20 shots on a great team like the Orlando Magics you SHOULD be dropping close to 20 just about every night. Its called EFFICIENCY. There is just no excuse to chuck up 39% for the season. Its not like your team mates are Dleaguers that you rather take the ugly fade away 3s by your self.
You can pass for some asst (asst down this yr even though he is surrounded with talent).

And for those who says ORlando is 3rd. Well guess what, Miami is 5th and is at ~.500 and they only have 1 good player in Dwade. Eastern Conf. is a joke. There is no excuse to lose to the Bulls and Pacers. Pacers didn't even have their #1 player in Granger and Troy murphy. TJ ford didn't play either. Complete joke.

And for those of you who says VC will come around during the playoffs. Well then there you go, the man is half season half amazing with half a heart. If he can play like this in regular season and turn it up 5 knotches and become half amazing in the playoffs then he truely just doesn't give a crap right now. And what if this loser can't turn it on in the playoff? He will shoot his team out of the 1st round. Watch some NBA TV. Eric Snow always comment on VCs " Luckiest BAD SHOTs". When he makes those rediculous 5 ft behind 3 point fade aways, you go WOW. But when he misses those, he looks like a loser...same as Gilbert Arenas. I'm convinced players with Arenas and VC should play on lottery teams and just chuck away and try to look like a hero on some nights. Because they sure don't care too much about their shot selections.

Oh boy, do I have a lot to say about this one! First off, have you ever watched a Magic game? The biggest, most simplistic thing you need to know is that they are called the "Orlando Magic," not the "MAGICS." Magics? No. Secondly, What makes you think Vince has a lack of heart, what does he need? An Angel on the rim blowing the basketball in to the hoop? Seriously, I bet none of you even watch the games, it's not his 'lack of heart.' It's that his offense is doing absolutely TERRIBLE right now, and that can be fixed easily. It seems like everyone in this thread is jumping on the 'We hate Vince Carter on the Orlando Magic!' Bandwagon.

Yes, Orlando is 3rd, despite our subpar offensive play, and pretty shaky defensive efforts at times. We still manage to have the 3rd seed in the eastern conference! Miami is 5th, what's your point? They aren't really playing that bad, they are playing good at best, but they aren't sucking ***. Do you see the way Dwyane Wade plays? Him and Beasly are putting up incredible numbers, even followed by last nights loss to the Celtics, which probably should've never happened, (It was a great game, I might add, for the 3 minutes I was watching it.) The eastern conference isn't a 'joke.' Everyone just isn't playing up to standards at the moment.

Who cares what Eric Snow says? Man was one of the worst offensive players to step foot on a basketball court. Eric is an analyzer, isn't he? I could find tons of retired NBA players that could tell the game WAY straighter then...Eric Snow...That's a joke for you right there. You seem to bring up the 'lack of heart,' all the time, I'll ignore it, because none of what you pair that with makes sense.

You say there is no excuse to shoot 39%. It's half way through the season. Chill. Vince is slumping right now, the Magic are slumping right now, we've been hit with incalcuable injuries, and yet we are still seeded 3rd trailing Boston by only a few games, so what do we have to show for it? Exactly that, a 3rd seed, even when we aren't playing to 65% of our potential at this point. We will only get better, and so will Vince, and despite what everyone says about him being a 'team cancer,' it wouldn't make sense, if LeBron, Rudy Gay, or Chris Paul never won a championship, I suppose they would be team cancers too. :rolleyes:

The matter of the fact is, it's a long season, and I'm tired of seeing numerous hate posts on Vince, when half of you probably have not even watched the Magic this year, and if you have, you need to pay attention, because that means you have NO clue what you are seeing on the screen.

Don't even bring up the 'half-hearted' ******** argument any longer, it's unnecessary, and shows you don't have a true argument.

There are the thoughts. You're welcome.

nbafan63
01-08-2010, 05:18 AM
Oh boy, do I have a lot to say about this one! First off, have you ever watched a Magic game? The biggest, most simplistic thing you need to know is that they are called the "Orlando Magic," not the "MAGICS." Magics? No. Secondly, What makes you think Vince has a lack of heart, what does he need? An Angel on the rim blowing the basketball in to the hoop? Seriously, I bet none of you even watch the games, it's not his 'lack of heart.' It's that his offense is doing absolutely TERRIBLE right now, and that can be fixed easily. It seems like everyone in this thread is jumping on the 'We hate Vince Carter on the Orlando Magic!' Bandwagon.

Yes, Orlando is 3rd, despite our subpar offensive play, and pretty shaky defensive efforts at times. We still manage to have the 3rd seed in the eastern conference! Miami is 5th, what's your point? They aren't really playing that bad, they are playing good at best, but they aren't sucking ***. Do you see the way Dwyane Wade plays? Him and Beasly are putting up incredible numbers, even followed by last nights loss to the Celtics, which probably should've never happened, (It was a great game, I might add, for the 3 minutes I was watching it.) The eastern conference isn't a 'joke.' Everyone just isn't playing up to standards at the moment.

Who cares what Eric Snow says? Man was one of the worst offensive players to step foot on a basketball court. Eric is an analyzer, isn't he? I could find tons of retired NBA players that could tell the game WAY straighter then...Eric Snow...That's a joke for you right there. You seem to bring up the 'lack of heart,' all the time, I'll ignore it, because none of what you pair that with makes sense.

You say there is no excuse to shoot 39%. It's half way through the season. Chill. Vince is slumping right now, the Magic are slumping right now, we've been hit with incalcuable injuries, and yet we are still seeded 3rd trailing Boston by only a few games, so what do we have to show for it? Exactly that, a 3rd seed, even when we aren't playing to 65% of our potential at this point. We will only get better, and so will Vince, and despite what everyone says about him being a 'team cancer,' it wouldn't make sense, if LeBron, Rudy Gay, or Chris Paul never won a championship, I suppose they would be team cancers too. :rolleyes:

The matter of the fact is, it's a long season, and I'm tired of seeing numerous hate posts on Vince, when half of you probably have not even watched the Magic this year, and if you have, you need to pay attention, because that means you have NO clue what you are seeing on the screen.

Don't even bring up the 'half-hearted' ******** argument any longer, it's unnecessary, and shows you don't have a true argument.

There are the thoughts. You're welcome.


First of all. The lack of heart is something that has stuck with Vince for a while now. Coaches have called him out on it. Phil Jackson has said it. If you havn't seen it, then well...your not watching the game. Getting blown out by the Pacers he was laughing and joking, while shooting 2/17. Yah..its funny...take a good laugh. Whatever.

Now, lets talk about how you compared him to Lebron and Chris Paul. While those 2 have no championship rings, they also have much weaker supporter cast. Lebron avg almost a tripple double with stls and blks doing it at 50%FG. Lets see, Vince on the other hand avg 39%FG and gets you about 2 asstl a game, and avg less a stl and blk a game. And he does that with 2 maybe 3 other all stars on his team. Chris paul leads the league in stls and avg 10 asst a game shooting at 50%. For you to compare them to Vince is pretty much a joke. You put lebron on the Magic and they win it hands down. You put vince on the Magic and Dwight avg carear lows in FG attempt...isn't that funny? I sure hope vince plays better going forward...I really do.

So you say Eric Snow is a joke a of baller. Yah I agree, but hey, he still knows more about basketball than you do. So does Cwebber. They all think Vince takes some of the highest degree of difficulty shots (nicer way of saying Vince takes bad shots). Jeff Van Gundy when he broadcasts, says "Thats a bad shot, vince needs to learn to stop taking those." And I'm sure you've heard it before since you watch all Magic games, as do I. Don't get me wrong. I'm a Magic fan, and you wont even believe this, I have Vince Carter on my fantasy Bball team. I've had him for the past 3 years. I was so happy when he got traded to the Magic. I told everyone, for sure VC will have a career year playing with this team. No more double teams or even tripple teams. His FG% going up, his ASST going up (you'd think just dump it to D12), and he can consume some energy on offense and lock down the D (like kobe).

Well, guess what. He did the exact opposite. Carear low in FG. ASST went down (how the hell??), STLs down, Blks down. He playing worst freaking ball. So some will argue, well he is on a much better team than the nets so of course his production will drop. I buy that argument, its normal...you go on a stacked team and your RB might drop, your pts might drop. But why does he still take 15 shots a game and miss so many? If he is taking less shots than sure, but he still takes a bunch - just missing them.

He is just sucking straight up. IF you watch the game, he just looks awfully slow and lazy out there. Commentators will say it as well. Yah, you can say he is hurt. But he is always hurt. His ankle is never 100%. He's had a few surgeries and look slower and slower each year. No NBA player plays 100%. Kobe plays with 2 fractured finger and a mild groin injury. Everyone's got some nagging injuries, but they get payed 20mill to go out and perform. VC just aint doing it.

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 10:34 AM
First of all. The lack of heart is something that has stuck with Vince for a while now. Coaches have called him out on it. Phil Jackson has said it. If you havn't seen it, then well...your not watching the game. Getting blown out by the Pacers he was laughing and joking, while shooting 2/17. Yah..its funny...take a good laugh. Whatever.

Now, lets talk about how you compared him to Lebron and Chris Paul. While those 2 have no championship rings, they also have much weaker supporter cast. Lebron avg almost a tripple double with stls and blks doing it at 50%FG. Lets see, Vince on the other hand avg 39%FG and gets you about 2 asstl a game, and avg less a stl and blk a game. And he does that with 2 maybe 3 other all stars on his team. Chris paul leads the league in stls and avg 10 asst a game shooting at 50%. For you to compare them to Vince is pretty much a joke. You put lebron on the Magic and they win it hands down. You put vince on the Magic and Dwight avg carear lows in FG attempt...isn't that funny? I sure hope vince plays better going forward...I really do.

So you say Eric Snow is a joke a of baller. Yah I agree, but hey, he still knows more about basketball than you do. So does Cwebber. They all think Vince takes some of the highest degree of difficulty shots (nicer way of saying Vince takes bad shots). Jeff Van Gundy when he broadcasts, says "Thats a bad shot, vince needs to learn to stop taking those." And I'm sure you've heard it before since you watch all Magic games, as do I. Don't get me wrong. I'm a Magic fan, and you wont even believe this, I have Vince Carter on my fantasy Bball team. I've had him for the past 3 years. I was so happy when he got traded to the Magic. I told everyone, for sure VC will have a career year playing with this team. No more double teams or even tripple teams. His FG% going up, his ASST going up (you'd think just dump it to D12), and he can consume some energy on offense and lock down the D (like kobe).

Well, guess what. He did the exact opposite. Carear low in FG. ASST went down (how the hell??), STLs down, Blks down. He playing worst freaking ball. So some will argue, well he is on a much better team than the nets so of course his production will drop. I buy that argument, its normal...you go on a stacked team and your RB might drop, your pts might drop. But why does he still take 15 shots a game and miss so many? If he is taking less shots than sure, but he still takes a bunch - just missing them.

He is just sucking straight up. IF you watch the game, he just looks awfully slow and lazy out there. Commentators will say it as well. Yah, you can say he is hurt. But he is always hurt. His ankle is never 100%. He's had a few surgeries and look slower and slower each year. No NBA player plays 100%. Kobe plays with 2 fractured finger and a mild groin injury. Everyone's got some nagging injuries, but they get payed 20mill to go out and perform. VC just aint doing it.

Unless Vince comes out and says "I have absolutely no heart for playing basketball on this Orlando Magic team," We all have no clue, so we can stop calling him out on the "heart" factor.

Think about what you just said about Lebron and Chris Paul. Lebron averaging 50+% Field Goals, almost averaging a triple double, yet this is what he SHOULD be doing. LeBron is the premier superstar of the league right now, just ask David Stern. Kobe and LeBron are the two favorites in the league, popularity wise. I expect LeBron and Paul to go above and beyond if there team is bad. They are the go-to players on there team, and if they didn't average those numbers, how can we even consider them good? You're basically proving my point that Vince isn't going to score 25+ points a night, he has 3 superstars, if not more on the team that can help him night in and night out, so why should he be penalized for not averaging the numbers of that of a LeBron James, or a Kobe Bryant? Exactly.

Eric Snow is a 'joke of a baller,' and I'll keep saying that. He knows more about me then basketball? Good, he should know more about me, I'm 16 years old, and am probably better at making statements then half of the people in this thread. That's a self-confidence boost for you. Anyways, back to Eric Snow, he played in the NBA, if he had no clue what was going on around him, I don't see how he could even be considered a good analyst. As for Chris Webber, I respect the guy, as a former basketball player, and an analyst.

As I said, I like Vince being in Orlando, I'm a Magic fan to, and why we are arguing is beyond question. We both want Vince to exceed and play at the level we know he is capable of, but he's not doing it right now. I just have a problem that you call Vince out on the "heart," of his play right now. We both know Vince is a great player, and eventually he will get back to his level this season, so there shouldn't be much more said about this.

As for the last statement you made about the injuries, etc. I'll agree with you there, Vince should try to find some way to overcome the injury bug, and if anything, play the best he can at maybe not 100%. Vince is more then capable of taking over games, just like this season when we almost came back from the most wretched first half of basketball I've seen against the Boston Celtics. I'm still embarassed about that game, but to think we could've almost had it in the end because Vince took over, well, that's a tremendous feeling.

Vince will eventually get back to where he needs to be, and I have no doubt that this Magic offense will make Vince work in the lineup, and his shots will start to fall, I'll give a comment or two after tonights game against the Washington Wizards. Hopefully all goes according to plan, and we finally get a win against the 'Arenas-less' Wizards. In order for this to happen, We are going to need to get good ball rotation, and Vince to take high percentage shots, hopefully he will.

I understand your concerns, and I agree on some of them, you should somewhat find an agreeable case with what I've said to, because it's obvious we both love Basketball. That's it for right now.

ink
01-08-2010, 01:01 PM
Unless Vince comes out and says "I have absolutely no heart for playing basketball on this Orlando Magic team," We all have no clue, so we can stop calling him out on the "heart" factor.

That doesn't really make sense. "Heart" is something very visible. The expression is about commitment ALL THE TIME and you can see that. Iverson has heart, for example, tons of it. He's famous for it. He may have other short-comings but one thing we know for sure from his play is that he always brings it, and always shows heart. Nash has heart, Kobe has heart, these are intense individuals who consistently bring it. They don't let up and they don't laugh on the sidelines during blowouts, etc, etc, etc. A player does not have to literally say "I have heart" or "I have no heart". It can't be hidden. No one could possibly question whether KG has heart, for example.

Is Vince a good player? Absolutely. Has he amassed some amazing stats and come up big at times, even most of the time? Yes and no. I'm sure someone will come along and show how phenomenal his stats are as evidence that he can and does dominate. But he doesn't do that all the time, and even his fans have to admit that there's a mystery about players like this. Call it "personality", call it "heart", but something seems to hold him back from reaching greatness, and it isn't a lack of talent.

loudif31
01-08-2010, 01:39 PM
My man ink summed up VC very well I think. You can't fake heart. And you can talk about it all you want, but you either have it or you don't.
Hedo makes plays by initiating the offence. Vince does not - at least not consistently.

Vince in Orlando has taken away from Dwight Howard's game. This is the issue here.

This is a thread about VC and his season with the Orlando, not about the Raptors vs Nets.

nbafan63
01-08-2010, 02:53 PM
That doesn't really make sense. "Heart" is something very visible. The expression is about commitment ALL THE TIME and you can see that. Iverson has heart, for example, tons of it. He's famous for it. He may have other short-comings but one thing we know for sure from his play is that he always brings it, and always shows heart. Nash has heart, Kobe has heart, these are intense individuals who consistently bring it. They don't let up and they don't laugh on the sidelines during blowouts, etc, etc, etc. A player does not have to literally say "I have heart" or "I have no heart". It can't be hidden. No one could possibly question whether KG has heart, for example.

Is Vince a good player? Absolutely. Has he amassed some amazing stats and come up big at times, even most of the time? Yes and no. I'm sure someone will come along and show how phenomenal his stats are as evidence that he can and does dominate. But he doesn't do that all the time, and even his fans have to admit that there's a mystery about players like this. Call it "personality", call it "heart", but something seems to hold him back from reaching greatness, and it isn't a lack of talent.


>> Thank you! Finally someone knows what I'm talking about. Radiant, You say Lebron brings it because he has to, well no...Lebron doesn't "have to". But LEbron is a very competitive guy, that's why he is who he is. If lebron plays like Vince then he will just be another Vince Carter. What separates Kobe, Lebron, KG (the elite) and the boarderline all star like vince is purely heart and dedication to the game. You will never see Kobe cracking jokes on the sideline getting blown out by the Grangerless Pacers (no troy murphy either). Look at Kobes face on the sideline when they lose. He is freaking pissed and you can just see it. Look at lebron when he lose, he don't shake hands. These guys take it personal when they lose, because they care, they have heart. Vince Carter is cracking jokes with D12, but Rashard was pissed. You can tell from Rashards face he was not happy and did not feel like cracking jokes with VC.

The fact that you have to say, lets hope VC goes out and have a good game vs Wizards (without Arenas) shows you don't know what this guy will bring. If it was Kobe, I wouldnt worry. Lebron? Not worried. VC? Man, I don't really know what VC will do. He can be half man half insanity or he can be a pile of dump.

VC has as much talent as anyone in the NBA. He just doesn't want it as bad, doesnt try as hard. Does he play hard vs. the Celtics? Yes he did. Does he play hard vs. Lakers? I'm sure he will. Does he try at all vs. Pacers and the not so good teams? He doesn't give a dump. Elite players bring it all the time maybe a few off nights here and there. Vince has had 16-20 off nights in 40 games - he plays hard 50-60% of the time. If you can't see it, then I'm not totally sure I believe that you watch all the Magic games.

Yanks All Day
01-08-2010, 03:38 PM
I have commented on this a couple of times, and I like some of the things that have just been brought up. There is absolutely NO reason for a player of VC's caliber to be this inefficient on a team with this much talent. Sure, they are a 3 seed now, because of the weak competition. If they were playing a tougher schedule or playing in the West, they look more like a 6 seed. I would pick Miami or Atlanta in a series over the Magic, and that's saying something for a team that made it to the Finals last year.

It does not look like this team is slumping, since they have played this way all season. A slump is a period of time where your play is out of the ordinary. This is just the 2009-2010 Orlando Magic. This team is not equipped to play with Cleveland, Boston, Los Angeles, San Antonio, and Denver. Moreso than ever, this team is a "live by the 3, die by the 3" team with a center who has no impact on the offensive end by any means. D12 does not command double teams and has no post moves, which makes guarding the perimeter players that much easier to guard.

Again, VC was brought in to be the game changer and the player to "get Orlando over the hump" as the title of the thread suggests. He was not brought in to average 17.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, and .87 spg while shooting 39% from the field and 31% from 3. It's not just a few games he is playing badly, it is the entire season. He is an 86.7% FT shooter, but gets to the line 4.6 times a game. That tells me that, while he is a very good free throw shooter, he is settling for jump shots much too often. VC is a player that needs to penetrate and open shots for his teammates, not one that needs to take 15 shots a game from 19 feet out. He is completely inefficient, and it is hurting the Magic's play more than it is helping them.

Lastly, just a comparison to the other star players on the great/elite teams in the NBA:

Vince Carter: 17.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, .87 spg, 39.2 FG%, 31.1 3PT%
LeBron James: 28.7 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 7.8 apg, 1.46 spg, 50.5 FG%, 35.7 3PT%
Kobe Bryant: 30.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 2.0 spg, 47.7 FG%, 32.1 3PT%
Carmelo Anthony: 30.0 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.16 spg, 47.0 FG%, 35.5 3PT%
Dirk Nowitzki: 24.9 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.06 spg, 47.6 FG%, 38.7 3PT%
Steve Nash: 18.9 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 11.3 apg, 0.5 spg, 54.3 FG%, 44.1 3PT%

The list goes on. But these are the other players that are supposed to be "the man" on their team. As you can see, by far Vince Carter has been the most inefficient, and therefore, his team is struggling a lot more than the teams of the other great players mentioned.

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 03:46 PM
Well, I guess since I'm outnumbered, I'm done with the conversation, it's obvious you guys won't agree with anything said, so I have no business left in this thread. If Vince isn't good, stop complaining about it so badly, it's not like we're going to trade him, and we still have half a season with him, and I doubt he's going anywhere in the near future, so complain all you want, and know that the situation will only get worse while you are bagging on him. Still disagree with the heart thing, maybe he's just not playing up to standards, but I doubt basketball players don't go into games only giving 60%.

That's my two-cents on the situation, so let it be. Have fun trashing Vince some more. I'm done.

ThuglifeJ
01-08-2010, 05:44 PM
well this is obvoiusly a Hate thread.
and wow you guys are pretty lame

the whole Magic TEAM have been playing bad. That includes Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis, and Jameer Nelson if you didnt know. Dwight can really make you shake your head on offense, how he has no ability to do anything but dunk on offense amazes me but w.e Dwight is still a beast.

Vince started out the season strong, taking over and winning big games.

now he's playing poorly and shooting a low %, true. THat's called a slump. I dont start a thread when Kobe shot 9-30 or 11-34 or whatever that was.
VC started out shooting close to 48% from both 3 and fgs, then he hit this big slump and he's down to like 40%. His WHOLE CAREER he's averaged like 45% I think, and has hit slumps as well I'm sure so I dont think he's going to just keep shooting poorly like you hope...I'm sure he'll get it babck up

bro

nbafan63
01-08-2010, 09:03 PM
Oh gee look, Whimp Carter is hurt again.

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 09:08 PM
Oh gee look, Whimp Carter is hurt again.

Oh gee look, a fake Magic fan! :rolleyes::facepalm:

Yanks All Day
01-08-2010, 09:16 PM
Sucks that VC got hurt. He was actually attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line. But if there is any bright spot here, JJ Redick is playing a heck of a game. He is putting the ball on the floor, making plays, had some very nice passes, and is stepping in very nicely.

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 09:21 PM
Sucks that VC got hurt. He was actually attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line. But if there is any bright spot here, JJ Redick is playing a heck of a game. He is putting the ball on the floor, making plays, had some very nice passes, and is stepping in very nicely.

Yeah, he's really stepping up as of late, he'll have 1 or 2 games where he might not be playing well, but he's playing smartly, and that's what counts.

As for Vince, I'm pretty pissed he's hurt again, but it's probably nothing severe, he should be back on the court later tonight if anything.

ThuglifeJ
01-08-2010, 09:33 PM
well VC was never really injury prone. Last few years I dont think he misses many games at all

it really sucks he's getting injured.

anyways whatever I cant wait for VC to be VC again so the haters can quiet themselves once again. You didnt see Magic fans making VC ROCKS threads when he was doing good so stfu with the hate threads.

The only thing I'll give you is that sometimes I feel he doesnt give 100%. Because some games I'm watching and my jaw drops at how good he can be. He can literally be one of the most dominating players in the game at times, theres not much you can do against such an athletic player who can fly and has the longest arms.
You can see him take over games a lot.

So yeah sometimes I feel like he's not trying to be his best all the time. Only reason why you dont see him in the big name talks anymore imo

nbafan63
01-08-2010, 09:42 PM
well VC was never really injury prone. Last few years I dont think he misses many games at all

it really sucks he's getting injured.

anyways whatever I cant wait for VC to be VC again so the haters can quiet themselves once again. You didnt see Magic fans making VC ROCKS threads when he was doing good so stfu with the hate threads.

The only thing I'll give you is that sometimes I feel he doesnt give 100%. Because some games I'm watching and my jaw drops at how good he can be. He can literally be one of the most dominating players in the game at times, theres not much you can do against such an athletic player who can fly and has the longest arms.
You can see him take over games a lot.

So yeah sometimes I feel like he's not trying to be his best all the time. Only reason why you dont see him in the big name talks anymore imo


He can not fly, he can barely dunk now.

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 09:47 PM
He can not fly, he can barely dunk now.

If you cheering that Vince got injured wasn't evidence enough, this seals the deal.

BkOriginalOne
01-08-2010, 10:02 PM
At the end of most days, and their careers..

Vince Carter> Hedo
So they made no errors. If only they had a number one option who was more in their primes (too bad Wade lives too far away)

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 10:08 PM
And here come the biased calls guys! Watch the Wizards fly through!

loudif31
01-08-2010, 10:45 PM
Interesting read on NBA.com. The article is titled "To realize their Finals dream, Magic must fix some bugs". Ot talks about Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis getting fewer shots and fewer points this season.
This addresses what this thread was about in the first place. This is not about "haters" just basketball observations people.

"The second reason is Vince Carter. If you haven't noticed, Carter likes to shoot and he's often getting shots at the expense of Howard. Carter averages 15.6 shots a game and Howard is at 8.9. On Tuesday, Howard took only six shots against the Pacers and was outplayed by Roy Hibbert. True enough, Howard was in foul trouble and ended up fouling out; still, there are few circumstances where Howard should get six attempts and Carter gets 15 (which he had Tuesday, making two of them). Especially when Carter is shooting 39 percent this season".

Here is the link:

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/shaun_powell/01/08/nba.insider/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

st3voness
01-08-2010, 10:48 PM
Streak: 4L.

Great job, Orlando.

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 11:00 PM
Streak: 4L.

Great job, Orlando.

I know a hater when I see one.

koreancabbage
01-08-2010, 11:01 PM
Uh you're getting the Carter that once said in TO--> i won't ever dunk again attitude i.e. not trying his hardest.

Hedo was the better fit, no doubt about it. Vince went from the go-to player to playing second fiddle and playing like he is the go-to player and sucking at it.

With Hedo, Magic would be owning the the league and probably wouldn't be in a 4 game losing streak

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 11:07 PM
Uh you're getting the Carter that once said in TO--> i won't ever dunk again attitude i.e. not trying his hardest.

Hedo was the better fit, no doubt about it. Vince went from the go-to player to playing second fiddle and playing like he is the go-to player and sucking at it.

With Hedo, Magic would be owning the the league and probably wouldn't be in a 4 game losing streak

doubtful, Hedo isn't really playing good this season, well..Neither is Vince, both are fizzling out if they haven't already..I wish the Magic staff would've thought about Vince a little bit more.

Going back on what I said is hard, but I have to realize facts sooner or later.

koreancabbage
01-08-2010, 11:11 PM
doubtful, Hedo isn't really playing good this season, well..Neither is Vince, both are fizzling out if they haven't already..I wish the Magic staff would've thought about Vince a little bit more.

Going back on what I said is hard, but I have to realize facts sooner or later.

but Hedo is on a different team with a different role- you understand? Carter is not attacking the rim and Orlando has made him into a jump-shooter --> which is the worst thing for Carter

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 11:12 PM
but Hedo is on a different team with a different role- you understand? Carter is not attacking the rim and Orlando has made him into a jump-shooter --> which is the worst thing for Carter

Of course I understand lol..but I don't know...I just feel like both aren't playing to there full potential, although...I do admit, I miss Hedo..A lot, and it was found evident after this slump started.

koreancabbage
01-08-2010, 11:18 PM
Of course I understand lol..but I don't know...I just feel like both aren't playing to there full potential, although...I do admit, I miss Hedo..A lot, and it was found evident after this slump started.

the thing with Carter--> he gets complacent really easily, especially with a dominate big man in Dwight Howard, who is clogging the lane all the time. Carter needs space to be impact player and when he sees the paint full, he simply becomes a jump shooter --> in which his effectiveness is cut in half (figure of speech, not stats lol) He's a FAR better player when he he drives to the net. At least with Turko, he's the better perimeter oriented player and has better play-making abilities than Carter and is a much better compliment player to Howard

RadiantShot
01-08-2010, 11:20 PM
the thing with Carter--> he gets complacent really easily, especially with a dominate big man in Dwight Howard, who is clogging the lane all the time. Carter needs space to be impact player and when he sees the paint full, he simply becomes a jump shooter --> in which his effectiveness is cut in half (figure of speech, not stats lol) He's a FAR better player when he he drives to the net. At least with Turko, he's the better perimeter oriented player and has better play-making abilities than Carter and is a much better compliment player to Howard

Well, Hedo isn't in Orlando any longer, so we're going to have to find a way to make it work.

Jays Claw
01-08-2010, 11:26 PM
WASHINGTON -- Orlando guard Vince Carter, in the midst of a difficult shooting slump, injured his left shoulder in a collision in the second quarter of Orlando's game in Washington on Friday night.

Carter lay writhing on the floor near the three point line at the Wizards' end of the court while play continued. His team did not call a timeout, playing a man short while Jason Williams hit a three pointer, but with the Wizards playing around the injured Carter, the Magic finally committed a foul to stop play.

Carter, who began the game averaging a team-high 17.7 points, has been struggling. He had missed 37 of 47 shots in his previous four games, and hit one of two field goals and all six free throws Friday before being hurt.

Link: http://www.nba.com/2010/news/01/08/magic.carter.injury.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

Jays Claw
01-08-2010, 11:29 PM
Vince Carter is a fragile flower nowadays. He has reportedly injured his left shoulder. This only makes things worse for a struggling Orlando Magic team that has lost four straight games.

He is their leading scorer. :facepalm:

ThuglifeJ
01-09-2010, 01:18 AM
he averages 20+/5/5 on 45ish% every year right? even last year where he was in the same shape(if not better this year). So I dont see how his numbers wont go back up once he gets fully adjusted again.

and blaming Orlandos losses on VC is just plain stupid. Idk maybe it has to do with the fact that once they got there point guard back (who sucks now) theyve gone on a bad streak, while they win games with J Will starting. You blame it on the quaRterback.

but w.e no need to play the blame game.

we'll see how it all turns out, right now not much flow and players arent familiar with eachother.

nbafan63
01-09-2010, 06:16 AM
he averages 20+/5/5 on 45ish% every year right? even last year where he was in the same shape(if not better this year). So I dont see how his numbers wont go back up once he gets fully adjusted again.

and blaming Orlandos losses on VC is just plain stupid. Idk maybe it has to do with the fact that once they got there point guard back (who sucks now) theyve gone on a bad streak, while they win games with J Will starting. You blame it on the quaRterback.

but w.e no need to play the blame game.

we'll see how it all turns out, right now not much flow and players arent familiar with eachother.


You are absolutely correct about this. I blame Jameer Nelson for passing the ball to Vince Carter for bricks. Jameer should not be pass Vince the ball at all, instead just dump it inside to D12. When you know you have a ball hog teammate who likes to fire away at 39% clip, you simply just stop passing the ball to him. Why he keeps letting VC shoot is beyond me. Nelson is definitely to blame.

nbafan63
01-09-2010, 06:24 AM
Well, Hedo isn't in Orlando any longer, so we're going to have to find a way to make it work.

Radiant,

Brother...please. No one is here to argue with you. Please relax. Most of us who take the time to post long paragraphs in here care about the Orlando Magic, otherwise we wouldn't waste our time here. I know you love your team, I love them too. But I am not digging Vince Carter. He's only been with us for a short period of time, and I already see the effort this guy gives. He does not bring good example for D12 and the rest of the guys with his half *** effort and laid back attitude. There's no fire driving this guy. You don't need to defend him like he has won championships for us. He has done absolutely nothing for us so far, why go out of your way to defend him like he is Orlando's hero? He flat out sucks right now and I hope he better get his act together soon, but till then the critics will continue to say he sucks. Its his responsibility as a player to prove us wrong.

When the critics said kobe doesn't pass - he became a better leader and started getting team mates more involved.

When the critics said lebron cant shoot FT - he got his %s up.

Those are just a few examples. Now its Vince's turn to turn it up. Lets see what he does. So far he just went down with an injurt (which looked like a normal screen).

If we are here saying the Magic sucks, then I will defend my team as well. But right now, the critics has the right to say VC is a pile of dump....because he is.

RadiantShot
01-09-2010, 12:53 PM
Radiant,

Brother...please. No one is here to argue with you. Please relax. Most of us who take the time to post long paragraphs in here care about the Orlando Magic, otherwise we wouldn't waste our time here. I know you love your team, I love them too. But I am not digging Vince Carter. He's only been with us for a short period of time, and I already see the effort this guy gives. He does not bring good example for D12 and the rest of the guys with his half *** effort and laid back attitude. There's no fire driving this guy. You don't need to defend him like he has won championships for us. He has done absolutely nothing for us so far, why go out of your way to defend him like he is Orlando's hero? He flat out sucks right now and I hope he better get his act together soon, but till then the critics will continue to say he sucks. Its his responsibility as a player to prove us wrong.

When the critics said kobe doesn't pass - he became a better leader and started getting team mates more involved.

When the critics said lebron cant shoot FT - he got his %s up.

Those are just a few examples. Now its Vince's turn to turn it up. Lets see what he does. So far he just went down with an injurt (which looked like a normal screen).

If we are here saying the Magic sucks, then I will defend my team as well. But right now, the critics has the right to say VC is a pile of dump....because he is.

If he didn't turn up the 'Magic,' would you be for trading him? You can answer honestly. And who do you think could help us better then VC right now? A lot of people, but who could we even get for him that would be a good fit. I'm just talking hypothetically.

ThuglifeJ
01-09-2010, 02:36 PM
blaming Vince for all the Magic's struggle is the easy thing to do.

stop making this the excuse for the Magic when the whole team sucks right now.

AddiX
01-09-2010, 02:40 PM
I said in the beginning I thought Vince wasnt the best pick up for Orlando. Even when he played with Kidd he wasnt a good team player. The guy just does not fit any systems. And during most of the regular season he plays at half speed.

GspLAL
01-09-2010, 05:09 PM
I think a lot depends on the coach, he has to take command and let the players know that they have to play how he (the coach) wants to play. For example, before Artest came to LA he was known for dribbling out the clock and taking bad shots but with the right coach, players change.

nbafan63
01-09-2010, 08:31 PM
If he didn't turn up the 'Magic,' would you be for trading him? You can answer honestly. And who do you think could help us better then VC right now? A lot of people, but who could we even get for him that would be a good fit. I'm just talking hypothetically.


No I would not have traded for Vince Carter last year. But I can see why they did it, because he only has 2 yrs left on his contract so if it didn't work out, we wouldn't be stuck with him for a long time.

I'm not sure if any team would trade for VC right now, but if it was just "hypothetically speaking". I would take Joe Johnson for SG. Can post up, can make passes, can shoot the 3 and he is 6'6. And if I was the GM I would trade VC for expiring and sign a younger player this summer. There are many PG/SG that wants to play with D12. Dwade for one has said he wants to play with D12 more than anyone in this league. If I had to give up 1 season to win it all next year or possibly for years to come...I would pull the trigger. I would package VC+Jameer for Tmac (not that houston would do this) and lure Dwade this summer. You can play backcourt of JJ+Dwade.


I'm convinced a good backcourt+D12 is 3peat. Nelson+VC just can not be the future. Some VERY VERY good PG/SG this summer becomes availible. For the sake of the franchise, dump Jameer and VC by Feb and sign a Superstar like Dwade this summer.

dtmagnet
01-09-2010, 08:59 PM
If I was a Magic fan I would be furious, it looked to me like Vince faked that injury. There didn't seem to be much contact at all.

nbafan63
01-09-2010, 09:01 PM
If I was a Magic fan I would be furious, it looked to me like Vince faked that injury. There didn't seem to be much contact at all.

I would hate to assume players fake injuries, but yes, there was barely any contact at all.

oh man btw...look how well the Magic is playing without VC tonight. What a surprise.

iggypop123
01-09-2010, 09:18 PM
no matter what they had 2 chuckers. unfortunately for the magic they chose the wrong one. hedo did it well for them. vince refuses to go in the paint nowadays

nbafan63
01-09-2010, 11:56 PM
no matter what they had 2 chuckers. unfortunately for the magic they chose the wrong one. hedo did it well for them. vince refuses to go in the paint nowadays

I'm convinced Vince hurts this team more than he helps.

GodsSon
01-10-2010, 12:06 AM
like Charles Oakley said about Vince during his Raptor tenure (i'm paraphrasing)...Vince is a top 3 talent in this league, but he's bottom 3 when it comes to heart...how right he was

RadiantShot
01-10-2010, 12:43 AM
An we pull of an almost flawless game against the Atlanta Hawks to break the 4 game streak..Without Vince Carter...I guess only time will tell if he is the team cancer, but as for right now, can't say much.

ThuglifeJ
01-10-2010, 01:02 AM
Who is effecting the game in a positive way when they're on the floor.

Howard +269
JWill +159
Barnes +140
Carter +136
Anderson +108
Redick +80
Pietrus +75
Lewis +68
Nelson +28
Johnson +15
Gortat -63

Only Howard and Williams are in the top 25 in the league. Seems like Lewis and Nelson are not as productive as their replacements and Carter is not as bad as some people on this board think.


and that's with his out of character shooting %...soo go figure. Hate all you want. VC is the easiest scapegoat for any failure to the team, he IS the new guy so I wont get too mad at the irrational ppl on here.

and if VC was in at the Hawks game Magic would have won by 40 points. The Bench went nuts, VC doesnt play off the bench ,so I dont get how that makes any correlation.

Raph12
01-10-2010, 01:35 AM
Who is effecting the game in a positive way when they're on the floor.

Howard +269
JWill +159
Barnes +140
Carter +136
Anderson +108
Redick +80
Pietrus +75
Lewis +68
Nelson +28
Johnson +15
Gortat -63

Only Howard and Williams are in the top 25 in the league. Seems like Lewis and Nelson are not as productive as their replacements and Carter is not as bad as some people on this board think.


and that's with his out of character shooting %...soo go figure. Hate all you want. VC is the easiest scapegoat for any failure to the team, he IS the new guy so I wont get too mad at the irrational ppl on here.

and if VC was in at the Hawks game Magic would have won by 40 points. The Bench went nuts, VC doesnt play off the bench ,so I dont get how that makes any correlation.

These are accumulated +/- stats, Lewis and Nelson have both missed a significant amount of time (at least 10 games) which would have a large effect on those specific stats.

ThuglifeJ
01-10-2010, 04:07 AM
really I'm pretty sure they arent affected when you're not playing..
+ if that was the case VC has missed what like 6 games as well?

ThuglifeJ
01-10-2010, 04:09 AM
w.e you guys are real ignorant. No matter what, logic, big games, whatever hits you in the face your mind will be stuck on his horrid shooting week, and will fail to blame anyone other than VC for the magics problems when they have them.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 08:56 AM
really I'm pretty sure they arent affected when you're not playing..
+ if that was the case VC has missed what like 6 games as well?

Vince has missed 5 games this season so far, and they are 4-1 without Vince in the Line up.

BTW, would you like to know D12's performance the 5 games that Vince missed?

24pts, 25pts, 22pts, 20pts, 12pts.

He avg. 16pts this season with Vince in the line up.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 10:01 AM
For all those who defend VC, here is what SVG has to say Vince Carter:


ORLANDO -- No one really believes that J.J. Redick is a better player than Vince Carter. But he might be a better fit now for the Orlando Magic. It was Saturday's victory that now has Magic Coach Stan Van Gundy seriously contemplating a lineup change that would include using Carter in reserve, a dramatic role change for one of the league's most popular players.

"Nobody is set (in the lineup) if you're losing,'' Van Gundy said. "You can only take losing for so long, then you do what you have to do.''

"We have been quite a bit better this season when we've had at least one of those four guys out, '' Van Gundy said. "We just have not been very good with them – not nearly as good as we've played the rest of the games. I don't know if that's something where we need to get some more complementary players in there with them.''

Carter becomes the most likely choice for a role change among the four. Howard is the best center in the league. Nelson is the co-captain and floor leader. Lewis is in the midst of a $118 million contract, and still in his prime. Carter is no longer among the best at his position and moving into the twilight of his career.

If Carter moves into a reserve role upon his return – expected at some point during an upcoming four-game West Coast swing – it would not be unprecedented. He played in reserve one game earlier this season after returning from an ankle injury – and the Magic beat Charlotte.

"I'd anticipate for now staying the way we are, and getting guys to play better, but at some point, if it's not coming around, you do whatever you have to do,'' Van Gundy said. "Right now, J.J. is very familiar with how we want to play, and he's played with these guys. We've come to trust him, and by we, I mean not only the coaches, but his teammates.''


Full article here http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/01/10/vince-carter-may-move-into-sixth-man-role/

Raph12
01-10-2010, 12:31 PM
nbafan63 has pretty much summed it up, unless Carter can drastically clean up his act, he may ride the bench for the first time in his career.

Anyone think this would end up ugly?

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 12:34 PM
nbafan63 has pretty much summed it up, unless Carter can drastically clean up his act, he may ride the bench for the first time in his career.

Anyone think this would end up ugly?

Early Playoff exit (maybe 2nd round). Ortis Smith blame SVG and JVG (they lobbied for VC) and fire SVG. Vince Carter wouldn't care, he has no heart anyways.

ManRam
01-10-2010, 12:36 PM
JJ Redick > Vince Carter???

I'm almost starting to believe it (not actually). It's not good when SVG is saying what he's saying...especially for Vince.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 12:38 PM
JJ Redick > Vince Carter???

I'm almost starting to believe it (not actually). It's not good when SVG is saying what he's saying...especially for Vince.

Did you read the 1st sentence of the article?

ORLANDO -- No one really believes that J.J. Redick is a better player than Vince Carter. But he might be a better fit now for the Orlando Magic.

RadiantShot
01-10-2010, 12:40 PM
Early Playoff exit (maybe 2nd round). Ortis Smith blame SVG and JVG (they lobbied for VC) and fire SVG. Vince Carter wouldn't care, he has no heart anyways.

Stan and Otis are usually on the same terms, but it's a possibility.

If Vince came off the bench for the rest of the season, and they didn't do well in the playoffs, Otis might be thinking about pulling the trigger on Stan, but it's not really his fault, he's trying to find the best way to win, and if that means putting VC on the bench, well, that's what he has to do.

JordansBulls
01-10-2010, 12:40 PM
like Charles Oakley said about Vince during his Raptor tenure (i'm paraphrasing)...Vince is a top 3 talent in this league, but he's bottom 3 when it comes to heart...how right he was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQAxaGLxsIw

AI says VC has heart at 32-06 to 32-51 mark

ManRam
01-10-2010, 12:46 PM
Did you read the 1st sentence of the article?

ORLANDO -- No one really believes that J.J. Redick is a better player than Vince Carter. But he might be a better fit now for the Orlando Magic.

I know. The point is, like the article says (and you said too), Redick might be a better fit than VC...and I almost am inclined to agree. That's all I meant. He's obviously not a better player, and it isn't close, but VC just isn't getting it done.


And, I don't think SVG's job is at risk. I do think he is not handling this team as well as he can, but if last year proved anything, he has the ability to be a top 5 coach in this league. I still have faith that he'll get this ship turned around.

Raph12
01-10-2010, 12:48 PM
Early Playoff exit (maybe 2nd round). Ortis Smith blame SVG and JVG (they lobbied for VC) and fire SVG. Vince Carter wouldn't care, he has no heart anyways.

2nd round would be against Boston, Cleveland or Atlanta (if they finish 1st), getting outplayed by the Celts or Cavs wouldn't be that big of a hit. I honestly don't think they'd blow the team up if that happened, but there may be some drastic changes.

prodigy
01-10-2010, 12:49 PM
I said awhile back that VC will hurt them more then help. Turk was a big part of that team. Don't be shocked if they lose in the first round.

RadiantShot
01-10-2010, 12:54 PM
I said awhile back that VC will hurt them more then help. Turk was a big part of that team. Don't be shocked if they lose in the first round.

I doubt 1st round, if we get knocked out, it's to the Celtics, or Cavaliers, end of story. I don't think Atlanta could beat us in a 7 game series, we match up good against them, but overall we're doing better, especially the way we played against them yesterday.

2-0 this season against the boys from GA.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 12:58 PM
I doubt 1st round, if we get knocked out, it's to the Celtics, or Cavaliers, end of story. I don't think Atlanta could beat us in a 7 game series, we match up good against them, but overall we're doing better, especially the way we played against them yesterday.

2-0 this season against the boys from GA.

Man, we SOOO need WADE. Freaking send Jameer+VC for Tmac and sign Dwade this summer and lets go 3 PEAT! Wade already said he wants to play with D12 more than anyone else in the league (even more than lebron). He wants to pair with D12, so lets clear clear out these 2 contracts and sign Wade this summer!

RadiantShot
01-10-2010, 01:05 PM
Man, we SOOO need WADE. Freaking send Jameer+VC for Tmac and sign Dwade this summer and lets go 3 PEAT! Wade already said he wants to play with D12 more than anyone else in the league (even more than lebron). He wants to pair with D12, so lets clear clear out these 2 contracts and sign Wade this summer!

Dwyane does want to play with Dwight...And Dwyane isn't liking his team as of late with how they are performing this season..

I love my boy Jameer, but Wade is just amazing, and he's already got a ring ;), so packaging him with someone Vince to get a premier player would be amazing. I think I'd package Jameer + Vince to get Wade, not McGrady..Then if anything, IF we wanted to pick up T-Mac, get him later, but he would just be an extra add.

Only problem is, would Dwyane start Point Guard if we didn't have McGrady, or do you think J-Will would take over, and Wade would slide down to SG?

We need a good Powerforward if we're going to want to put Rashard down at SF.

Overall, without McGrady it could be like this :

Jason Williams
Dwyane Wade
Matt Barnes
Rashard Lewis
Dwight Howard

That's a pretty sick lineup, but we'll just have to see what Otis does...And I don't think we should rush the trades yet, I want to wait until after the playoffs to even think about pulling a trigger on a few of the Eastern conference champions.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 01:09 PM
Dwyane does want to play with Dwight...And Dwyane isn't liking his team as of late with how they are performing this season..

I love my boy Jameer, but Wade is just amazing, and he's already got a ring ;), so packaging him with someone Vince to get a premier player would be amazing. I think I'd package Jameer + Vince to get Wade, not McGrady..Then if anything, IF we wanted to pick up T-Mac, get him later, but he would just be an extra add.

Only problem is, would Dwyane start Point Guard if we didn't have McGrady, or do you think J-Will would take over, and Wade would slide down to SG?

We need a good Powerforward if we're going to want to put Rashard down at SF.

Overall, without McGrady it could be like this :

Jason Williams
Dwyane Wade
Matt Barnes
Rashard Lewis
Dwight Howard

That's a pretty sick lineup, but we'll just have to see what Otis does...And I don't think we should rush the trades yet, I want to wait until after the playoffs to even think about pulling a trigger on a few of the Eastern conference champions.

The reason I said Jameer+VC for Tmac because I figure no way Miami takes that trade. So basically we trade for Tmac's giant expiring contract and then we would have the cap to sign Wade for the max this summer. And I'm pretty sure he will come to Orlando and play with D12 in the new arenas next year.

Raph12
01-10-2010, 01:10 PM
Man, we SOOO need WADE. Freaking send Jameer+VC for Tmac and sign Dwade this summer and lets go 3 PEAT! Wade already said he wants to play with D12 more than anyone else in the league (even more than lebron). He wants to pair with D12, so lets clear clear out these 2 contracts and sign Wade this summer!

Still not enough room dude, keep in mind the Magic are in the luxury tax.

Without Carter and Nelson's contracts we'd be at 54 which is around the cap, if you're signing a FA, you must have enough room under the cap unless it is your own player with Bird rights.

Nice try though, btw if we really could sign a max FA, I'd rather have Lebron.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 01:15 PM
Still not enough room dude, keep in mind the Magic are in the luxury tax.

Without Carter and Nelson's contracts we'd be at 54 which is around the cap, if you're signing a FA, you must have enough room under the cap unless it is your own player with Bird rights.

Nice try though, btw if we really could sign a max FA, I'd rather have Lebron.

*****, your right. So how can we get wade? straight up trade with Miami huh?

RadiantShot
01-10-2010, 01:19 PM
The reason I said Jameer+VC for Tmac because I figure no way Miami takes that trade. So basically we trade for Tmac's giant expiring contract and then we would have the cap to sign Wade for the max this summer. And I'm pretty sure he will come to Orlando and play with D12 in the new arenas next year.

Problem with that is...If he doesn't, we're screwed.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 01:24 PM
Problem with that is...If he doesn't, we're screwed.

No, then we go for LEbron!! hahahaha. Good thing is EVERYone loves D12. If we had the cap, we can get any super star to come play in a great city with a brand new arena + a stud in D12. What we need to get rid of are old has been like VC. I love Jameer, but I think he isn't what we need. We need a super stud SG to do the 1-2 punch with D12 and kick out to Shard as #3 option.

RadiantShot
01-10-2010, 01:26 PM
No, then we go for LEbron!! hahahaha. Good thing is EVERYone loves D12. If we had the cap, we can get any super star to come play in a great city with a brand new arena + a stud in D12. What we need to get rid of are old has been like VC. I love Jameer, but I think he isn't what we need. We need a super stud SG to do the 1-2 punch with D12 and kick out to Shard as #3 option.

That's true..But we still need to at least have a decent point guard to make the right decisions, and Jason..well, his decisions are okay half of the time. ;)

We'll all see where the offseason takes us, but as for now, I just want to have fun watching the Magic <3

lol.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 01:30 PM
That's true..But we still need to at least have a decent point guard to make the right decisions, and Jason..well, his decisions are okay half of the time. ;)

We'll all see where the offseason takes us, but as for now, I just want to have fun watching the Magic <3

lol.

Where u get such a cool sig? I want a cool one too after each one of my posts :)

Raph12
01-10-2010, 01:30 PM
*****, your right. So how can we get wade? straight up trade with Miami huh?

Well Carter's contract becomes desirable next season because he has a team option in 2011-12 (the team could choose to drop him). So basically if he performs at a high level during the playoffs, teams would want him not only because of his contract's clause, but also because he could better their team.

Wade isn't a likely pickup just because Miami has enough room for 2 max players and some role players. Cross him off your list now, Miami won't trade him away. Either Bosh or Amare could choose to go play with Wade in Miami (don't see Lebron wanting to play their). Pierce and Nowiztki will likely elect to stay put, Lebron will likely resign with Cleveland, Ray and Ginobli will likely stay put, Joe Johnson will probably either stay in Atlanta or go to Houston depending on how Yao bounces back.

Therefore, the only big name guys the Magic may look to pursue are: Carlos Boozer, Al Harrington, Tracy McGrady or Richard Jefferson (ETO).

The ideal situation would be signing Boozer for the MLE and getting Tmac at the vet's min, while trading away Bass and Gortat for something solid.

PG - Nelson
SG - Carter
SF - Lewis
PF - Boozer
C - Dwight
6th - Tmac

With guys like J-Will, Redick, Pietrus, Anderson and insert Bass-Gortat trade returns here they'd be set for quite some time... Of course this is all just speculation.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 01:39 PM
Well Carter's contract becomes desirable next season because he has a team option in 2011-12 (the team could choose to drop him). So basically if he performs at a high level during the playoffs, teams would want him not only because of his contract's clause, but also because he could better their team.

Wade isn't a likely pickup just because Miami has enough room for 2 max players and some role players. Cross him off your list now, Miami won't trade him away. Either Bosh or Amare could choose to go play with Wade in Miami (don't see Lebron wanting to play their). Pierce and Nowiztki will likely elect to stay put, Lebron will likely resign with Cleveland, Ray and Ginobli will likely stay put, Joe Johnson will probably either stay in Atlanta or go to Houston depending on how Yao bounces back.

Therefore, the only big name guys the Magic may look to pursue are: Carlos Boozer, Al Harrington, Tracy McGrady or Richard Jefferson (ETO).

The ideal situation would be signing Boozer for the MLE and getting Tmac at the vet's min, while trading away Bass and Gortat for something solid.

PG - Nelson
SG - Carter
SF - Lewis
PF - Boozer
C - Dwight
6th - Tmac

With guys like J-Will, Redick, Pietrus, Anderson and insert Bass-Gortat trade returns here they'd be set for quite some time... Of course this is all just speculation.



Boozer will demand the max or close to it. No way he signs for MLE.

Raph12
01-10-2010, 01:52 PM
Boozer will demand the max or close to it. No way he signs for MLE.

No way anyone give him the max, he's already said that he wants to play with Dwight and I wouldn't be against giving up Gortat-Bass-Filler for Boozer-Fesenko.

We need to trade Gortat and Bass anyways, getting a guy like Boozer and a young center like Fesenko in return would be fantastic.

RadiantShot
01-10-2010, 02:39 PM
Where u get such a cool sig? I want a cool one too after each one of my posts :)

Made it lol. I was going Photoshop Crazy a few weeks ago.


No way anyone give him the max, he's already said that he wants to play with Dwight and I wouldn't be against giving up Gortat-Bass-Filler for Boozer-Fesenko.

We need to trade Gortat and Bass anyways, getting a guy like Boozer and a young center like Fesenko in return would be fantastic.

What's Fesenko like, show me some stats or tell me how he plays, is he just like a throw in, or does he cancel out Gortat?

That would be a good trade, and we could actually USE Boozer, unlike Bass getting insufficient minutes.

Raph12
01-10-2010, 03:03 PM
Made it lol. I was going Photoshop Crazy a few weeks ago.



What's Fesenko like, show me some stats or tell me how he plays, is he just like a throw in, or does he cancel out Gortat?

That would be a good trade, and we could actually USE Boozer, unlike Bass getting insufficient minutes.

Fesenko is a 300lb banger and is very raw, he is only 23 years old and would probably flourish after practising with Dwight. Plus Dwight would get a large, physical opponent to play against in practise, which would improve his game against guys like Shaq, Perkins and Yao.

nbafan63
01-10-2010, 03:20 PM
Made it lol. I was going Photoshop Crazy a few weeks ago.



What's Fesenko like, show me some stats or tell me how he plays, is he just like a throw in, or does he cancel out Gortat?

That would be a good trade, and we could actually USE Boozer, unlike Bass getting insufficient minutes.

No way they make that trade, Jazz I mean...??

Raph12
01-10-2010, 03:34 PM
No way they make that trade, Jazz I mean...??

Why not, Bass and Gortat are both young and have alot of potential. Plus, Boozer wants out anyways, might as well get something solid out of it.

nbafan63
01-12-2010, 07:51 AM
Orlando Sentinel:

Vince Carter missed Monday's practice with his left shoulder injury, and it doesn't sound like he's leaning toward playing on Tuesday at Sacramento.
The injury is being called a "sprain," as well as a "separation," and Carter said he's still not ready for game action. "Everything’s stable — I can still move it around," Carter said. "It’s just that any...movement having to do with the game is a problem."


"any movement having to do with the game is a problem"...lol. so much heart...



http://static.funnyjunk.com/gifs/1232364720_jessica_alba___come_to_bed.gif

nbafan63
01-12-2010, 09:40 AM
man are they really going to keep this guy for 2 years?

D-Will4Prez
01-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Maybe Hedo did fit their system slightly better than Vince because he caused matchup problems but they improved they bench 10x over what it used to be, I still see them as a finals team atm.

nbafan63
01-12-2010, 06:44 PM
Maybe Hedo did fit their system slightly better than Vince because he caused matchup problems but they improved they bench 10x over what it used to be, I still see them as a finals team atm.


Vince is really hurting the Magic. They need to do something fast!

RadiantShot
01-12-2010, 08:27 PM
Vince is really hurting the Magic. They need to do something fast!

Calm down bro! Long season! The sky isn't falling! 26-12 and nowhere to go but up!