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JordansBulls
01-03-2010, 10:39 PM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

Gators123
01-03-2010, 11:00 PM
Atlanta @ Miami
Oklahoma City @ Chicago
New Orleans @ Utah
Portland @ LA Clippers

Jays Claw
01-03-2010, 11:31 PM
Atlanta @ Miami
Oklahoma City @ Chicago
New Orleans @ Utah
Portland @ LA Clippers

thedfactor
01-04-2010, 12:55 AM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

GrandDaddyPurp
01-04-2010, 12:57 AM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

Ryan328
01-04-2010, 12:58 AM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

GodsSon
01-04-2010, 02:15 PM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

Chacarron
01-04-2010, 02:27 PM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

RaptorsFanatic
01-04-2010, 04:28 PM
Atlanta +4 @ Miami 7:30 PM
Oklahoma City +2 @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah +8 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers +3 10:30 PM

nitric
01-04-2010, 04:32 PM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

Vinny642
01-04-2010, 07:34 PM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM(I hope I am wrong)
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

Tha Truth
01-04-2010, 07:41 PM
Atlanta @ Miami 7:30 PM NBA TV
Oklahoma City @ Chicago 8:00 PM
New Orleans @ Utah 9:00 PM
Portland @ LA Clippers 10:30 PM

Macedonian
01-04-2010, 08:40 PM
Atlanta @ Miami
Oklahoma City @ Chicago
New Orleans @ Utah
Portland @ LA Clippers

JordansBulls
01-04-2010, 10:51 PM
VDN needs to stop taking Rose out.

Vinny642
01-04-2010, 11:19 PM
VDN needs to stop taking Rose out.

Want me to coach the Bulls?

Cubs Win
01-04-2010, 11:30 PM
I'm not watching the game but I'm assuming D-Will and CP3 are guarding each other for the most part. Can anyone confirm this for me?

Because assuming they are I'm willing to claim that D-Will is the best PG in the league. He is absolutely ripping CP3 apart right now.

Vinny642
01-04-2010, 11:35 PM
I'm not watching the game but I'm assuming D-Will and CP3 are guarding each other for the most part. Can anyone confirm this for me?

Because assuming they are I'm willing to claim that D-Will is the best PG in the league. He is absolutely ripping CP3 apart right now.

Paul is missing but Deron has the upper hand but he is starting to miss now too.

Cubs Win
01-04-2010, 11:54 PM
Paul is missing but Deron has the upper hand but he is starting to miss now too.

Deron just seems to have the upper hand every time he goes head to head with CP3. Is it just his physicality that throws Paul off or what?

Vinny642
01-04-2010, 11:56 PM
Deron just seems to have the upper hand every time he goes head to head with CP3. Is it just his physicality that throws Paul off or what?

I think where they play has something to do with it, I kinda want to win this game though, as long as we win I dont care how bad Deron ripped CP.

Sixerlover
01-05-2010, 12:11 AM
30 pts for Devin Brown so far. Unbelievable right?

Vinny642
01-05-2010, 12:12 AM
20 shots lol quite alot but hey he is on fire, Cp is getting it together.

Sixerlover
01-05-2010, 12:19 AM
Yeah that steal was beyond clutch.

Baller1
01-05-2010, 03:13 PM
Are people going to realize that they should be looking past all the hype on Rose and giving credit to the better 2nd year PG?

Westbrook ripped the Bulls last night, particularly Rose... so I ask:

Does the game last night show you anything about the comparison of these two players?

Southsideheat
01-05-2010, 03:16 PM
no one cares, really though.

cRaTeR
01-05-2010, 03:20 PM
Derrick Rose is the more skilled player, but Westbrook is not far behind.
Obviously the bulls never ever used Rose to his true potential.
Trying to turn him into the next andre miller istead of the next dwayne wade
was the wrong move.

ecorrea
01-05-2010, 03:20 PM
it was one game, roses shots wernt falling like they usually do at point blank range and he still had a decent game numbers wise.

however, i do now have more respect for westbrook. i didnt know he could score and take over a game like he did.

i still think rose will be and is the better player, but westbrook is def special.

Gibby23
01-05-2010, 03:24 PM
Rose is better. Westbrook is shooting 39% compared to Rose at 45%. Rose still turns the ball over less and has been playing better the last month or so after his onjury got better.

DaBUU
01-05-2010, 03:25 PM
Rose still had 19 pts and 7 assists on a bad night. He is surrounded by offensive crap, has no shooters and no big who can score and is still averaging close to 25 pts, 7 asts and 5 boards over the last 10-15 games. He single handidly kept them in the game in the 4th last night. all the hype surrounding him is well deserved and although Westbrook is also a very nice player, he gets to play off a beast that score 30 every night. So i'd hold up with calling him the better 2nd year guard.

Jays Claw
01-05-2010, 03:25 PM
In my opinion, Russel Westbrook and Derrick Rose are at the same level. In the near future, there is no question these guys will be the most dominant point guards. However, as of now, I would give the slight edge to Derrick Rose.

Chicagofaithful
01-05-2010, 03:25 PM
lmao you're right this one game where the entire bulls team looked horrendous is exactly what we should use to judge the 2 players. If you havent noticed OKC has Kevin Durant. Who else do the bulls have? Noah? haha even with Rose's 19 points they were still prettier than Westbrooks. Chill on the comparisons bro.... WHy dont you look at the last 3 weeks worth of play?

ManRam
01-05-2010, 03:30 PM
Here we go again...

Russy is a great player. Rose is better, and has more upside. If you think otherwise, you're misinformed. Russy is a better shooter, that's about it.

Raidaz4Life
01-05-2010, 03:32 PM
I've always thought Westbrook has more upside and its going to start showing very soon.

Chicagofaithful
01-05-2010, 03:36 PM
I guess we'll all agree to disagree.... as Ron Burgandy says

Baller1
01-05-2010, 04:07 PM
lmao you're right this one game where the entire bulls team looked horrendous is exactly what we should use to judge the 2 players. If you havent noticed OKC has Kevin Durant. Who else do the bulls have? Noah? haha even with Rose's 19 points they were still prettier than Westbrooks. Chill on the comparisons bro.... WHy dont you look at the last 3 weeks worth of play?

Why don't you look at the entire season worth of play?

Westbrook has been far more consistent, yet people still stuck to Rose. Now Westbrook has a head to head matchup under his belt. I figured people would realize just how good this kid is.

Prettier than Westbrooks?! Care to explain?

Alwaysballin247
01-05-2010, 04:08 PM
one game??? come on now...they are both good players and both one day will be really good PG's but comparing them is fine but one game saying who is better is dumb IMO

Baller1
01-05-2010, 04:13 PM
one game??? come on now...they are both good players and both one day will be really good PG's but comparing them is fine but one game saying who is better is dumb IMO

The comparison has been really buzzing in the forum recently, so I just wanted to get it going again after Westbrook and Rose went head to head.

Calm down.

blackjack_119
01-05-2010, 04:14 PM
Here we go again...

Russy is a great player. Rose is better, and has more upside. If you think otherwise, you're misinformed. Russy is a better shooter, that's about it.

Westbrook is also one of the best defenders at PG while Rose is below average.

EDIT: He is also a better rebounder. Forgot about that one.

RadiantShot
01-05-2010, 04:15 PM
Yeah a lot of people really are hopped right on top of Derrick Rose. I'm not saying Russel is better...But there are pointguards who are better right now, that's a given. Another thing...Well, some people complain that he doesn't really have anyone..That would be wrong, He at least has a good slasher and somewhat good post scorer in Luol Deng when he does post up...Tyrus Thomas can score down low when he's in the game...I agree on Joakim, he's just pathetic. What I'm saying is, Rose is there go to option, Rose doesn't have anyone to get assists from because he is there go to guy...It's not a 5 man all-star lineup.

RocketsRule
01-05-2010, 04:16 PM
Westbrook is also one of the best defenders at PG while Rose is below average.

That's not true at all. In fact, Rose is up there with Westbrook as one of the better defenders at PG. He is probably the best defender on the Bulls.

Chicagofaithful
01-05-2010, 04:17 PM
Why don't you look at the entire season worth of play?

Westbrook has been far more consistent, yet people still stuck to Rose. Now Westbrook has a head to head matchup under his belt. I figured people would realize just how good this kid is.

Prettier than Westbrooks?! Care to explain?

Dude serious? have you heard of injuries? The second Rose healed from the injury he started playing really well.

Baller1
01-05-2010, 04:17 PM
Here we go again...

Russy is a great player. Rose is better, and has more upside. If you think otherwise, you're misinformed. Russy is a better shooter, that's about it.

Westbrook is the second best rebounding PG in the entire league, only trailing one of the greatest PG's of all time (Kidd).

Baller1
01-05-2010, 04:19 PM
Dude serious? have you heard of injuries? The second Rose healed from the injury he started playing really well.

That would be a valid arguement if Westbrook wasn't playing well. Westbrook has been playing really well since game one.

blackjack_119
01-05-2010, 04:19 PM
That's not true at all. In fact, Rose is up there with Westbrook as one of the better defenders at PG. He is probably the best defender on the Bulls.

He's not even the best PG defender on the Bulls (Granted Kirk Hinrich may be the best PG defender in the game.) But Rose's defense is not good. You should watch him play more.

abe_froman
01-05-2010, 04:29 PM
Westbrook is the second best rebounding PG in the entire league, only trailing one of the greatest PG's of all time (Kidd).

no one's saying russ isnt great.yes,ok,he doesnt get recognized by espn or other ******** places like that and its sad.but he's always gotten love here and place that matter,so you can let go of that

now to rose/westbrook.but if you want career rose is better,beating him in several categories(ws,per,ts,ppg's,ect.,ect.).now for this season its been pretty even,and thats with rose starting the first month with injury(but will give slight edge to russ for so far this season..but will change soon)

its great you have love for your team and its players,but no

AddiX
01-05-2010, 04:32 PM
This year Rose's stock is depression, this dude is way over-hyped.

He is a SG who plays PG who cant shoot. Cant set up teammates, and has no clue how to run an offense.

Sure he has athletic ability and raw talent, that's why he was a #1 pick.

But he isnt a true #1 player, not even close.

Chacarron
01-05-2010, 04:36 PM
Goran Dragić is the best PG out of the 2008 draft and will prove so when he takes over for Nash after the latter retires. On a serious note, threads like this one go nowhere because of dumb assessments made about a particular player after he has "outdone" another one night. How about we try this again after the season is over?

SteveNash
01-05-2010, 04:40 PM
That's not true at all. In fact, Rose is up there with Westbrook as one of the better defenders at PG. He is probably the best defender on the Bulls.

:laugh:

Why is that, because of his block on Rondo.

Rose is terrible.

Westbrook has a case for the best defensive PG in the league.

Rose has a case for the worst defensive PG in the league.

Not close at all.

chiitownkings
01-05-2010, 04:41 PM
Rose was completely dominating Westbrook are you serious?? Or did you forget they had to put Sefolosha on him to slow him down. Westbrook was getting OWNED

chiitownkings
01-05-2010, 04:42 PM
Both are awesome!

Baller1
01-05-2010, 04:47 PM
This year Rose's stock is depression, this dude is way over-hyped.

He is a SG who plays PG who cant shoot. Cant set up teammates, and has no clue how to run an offense.

Sure he has athletic ability and raw talent, that's why he was a #1 pick.

But he isnt a true #1 player, not even close.

Thank you.

RocketsRule
01-05-2010, 04:49 PM
He's not even the best PG defender on the Bulls (Granted Kirk Hinrich may be the best PG defender in the game.) But Rose's defense is not good. You should watch him play more.

I'll give you that Hinrich is a better defender than Rose, but his defense is still pretty good. I watched him play against the Kings, and Rose virtually shut-down Tyreke Evans in the first half. From what I saw, he had the making of a pretty damn good defender.

mikantsass
01-05-2010, 04:50 PM
Are people going to realize that they should be looking past all the hype on Rose and giving credit to the better 2nd year PG?

Westbrook ripped the Bulls last night, particularly Rose... so I ask:

Does the game last night show you anything about the comparison of these two players?

Rose has played only 1 and 1/3 seasons in the NBA.... People need to stop overrating and underrating the guy...

astrosmaniac
01-05-2010, 04:52 PM
That would be a valid arguement if Westbrook wasn't playing well. Westbrook has been playing really well since game one.

the point is it not fair to compare a player who was playing hurt to a player playing healthy...

Turtle55
01-05-2010, 04:52 PM
And now I remember why I stopped reading the general NBA forum. Every time Rose has a bad game or even a bad quarter everyone wants to start tearing him down. This is ridiculous. Ever since his ankle healed he's been dominant. One bad game (which he still had 19pts 7ast) and now here it is again. Ridiculous. You want to praise Westbrook then that's great he's a hell of a player but it's foolish to feel you have to do it at the expense of Rose.

Stunner
01-05-2010, 04:53 PM
Yeah a lot of people really are hopped right on top of Derrick Rose. I'm not saying Russel is better...But there are pointguards who are better right now, that's a given. Another thing...Well, some people complain that he doesn't really have anyone..That would be wrong, He at least has a good slasher and somewhat good post scorer in Luol Deng when he does post up...Tyrus Thomas can score down low when he's in the game...I agree on Joakim, he's just pathetic. What I'm saying is, Rose is there go to option, Rose doesn't have anyone to get assists from because he is there go to guy...It's not a 5 man all-star lineup.

No he isnt, Noah is averaging a double double and was beasting the Thunder last night. 2nd in the league in rebounding and his offense is coming along.

Alwaysballin247
01-05-2010, 04:54 PM
Its hard to compare the two...Rose can get to the hoop and finish better, westbrook has a better shot...Both aren't that great at setting up teamates, westbrook might have more assist but its just bc his guys knock down shots ... also in all fairness rose should be an off guard and be on a fast break team and get to the hoop.

def end westbrook is a much better on the ball defender but gets lost at times when his man is moving and he is watching the ball...on the other hand rose is a pretty good off the ball defender but can not keep quick point guards infront of him.

who is the better Pg? I say westbrook..

who is better at taking over a game? rose

who is going to lead their team to a championship?
and who will have a better career? well those questions have not been answerd yet. But I don't think you can go wrong with either guy

Turtle55
01-05-2010, 04:57 PM
Yeah a lot of people really are hopped right on top of Derrick Rose. I'm not saying Russel is better...But there are pointguards who are better right now, that's a given. Another thing...Well, some people complain that he doesn't really have anyone..That would be wrong, He at least has a good slasher and somewhat good post scorer in Luol Deng when he does post up...Tyrus Thomas can score down low when he's in the game...I agree on Joakim, he's just pathetic. What I'm saying is, Rose is there go to option, Rose doesn't have anyone to get assists from because he is there go to guy...It's not a 5 man all-star lineup.
Just going out of his way to prove he has no idea what he's talking about. Second leading rebounder in the NBA and easily one of the most improved players in the entire league.

Stunner
01-05-2010, 05:03 PM
Another I hate Rose Thread come on Westbrook is a good player and was kinda on some one on one gunning stuff last night, while Rose was doing both. I would be glad to have both players but i put my money on Rose not being a homer but i feel Rose jus has it i dont know who da guy was dat was trashing Rose saying he doesnt know how to set up his teammates is bull if some of our players can knock down shots. Westbrook played two years of college i think while Rose played 1. They said Westbrook has his number but i bet Rose has played better against the top PG's in the league like Harris,Kidd,Nash,CP3,D-Will. Rose shots werent falling last night and he still had 19 points.

Raph12
01-05-2010, 05:11 PM
Rose<<<Westbrook

DaBUU
01-05-2010, 05:14 PM
Both are awesome!

yeah its more like this...

Hawkeye15
01-05-2010, 05:42 PM
why is anyone using a single head to head matchup to call out who is better?? Its the same thing Deron fans do with Paul, or Ming fans do with Howard.
They play a lot more games. The whole body of work needs to be addressed. If they meet in the playoffs, and one kicks the others butt for 7 games, then fine, use it

eugene
01-05-2010, 05:56 PM
Rose is still better. Don't judge after one game, watch overall...

Bullsfan22
01-05-2010, 06:15 PM
hahaha this thread is the greatest. one of the most hated players in the nba i wonder why.

astrosmaniac
01-05-2010, 06:33 PM
why is anyone using a single head to head matchup to call out who is better?? Its the same thing Deron fans do with Paul, or Ming fans do with Howard.
They play a lot more games. The whole body of work needs to be addressed. If they meet in the playoffs, and one kicks the others butt for 7 games, then fine, use it

but those matchups have a bigger sample size. 10+ matchups is a fair sample size. and on the paul/williams debate, the two are so close statistically that had-to-head is one of the best ways to compare them

JordansBulls
01-05-2010, 06:43 PM
Are people going to realize that they should be looking past all the hype on Rose and giving credit to the better 2nd year PG?

Westbrook ripped the Bulls last night, particularly Rose... so I ask:

Does the game last night show you anything about the comparison of these two players?

I didn't get to see the game so I don't know.

JayW_1023
01-05-2010, 06:59 PM
People always talk about Durant...but Westbrook has just as much superstar potential in my opinion.

IrespectNumber3
01-05-2010, 07:02 PM
You guys are rediculous... Derrick Rose is better than Westbrook...One interconference game against a superior team is meaningless

zambo4president
01-05-2010, 07:10 PM
Wesrbrooks not even in the same breathe as Rose :laugh2:

Cool007
01-05-2010, 07:12 PM
Westbrook outplayed Rose??? Wish you guys had watched the game. Rose was just destroying Westbrook in the 1st half and Westbrook was just reckless in the 1st half.

What Thunder's coach did was put Thabo on Rose and just built a wall inside so Rose doesn't go inside, Rose went inside few times and got hammered with NO CALL. Because Thabo was guarding Rose, Rose was guarding Thabo on the other side while Hinrich was guarding Westbrook and at times Bulls switched for stupidest reason and Westbrook scored - also a lot of it were on the fastbreak with Bulls turning it over.

Also, this same westbrook - last year Rose knocked down 10-10 field goals over westbrook and the same thunder team in OKC and took over the game and won it. Nobody from Bulls board came and said - yeah Rose is better because of that game.

Let their games speak - not 1 game.

Ray_R
01-05-2010, 07:15 PM
Rose<<<Westbrook

That COmin from a guy who all the Good tweam happen to be his favorite team...

Ray_R
01-05-2010, 07:18 PM
Wesrbrooks not even in the same breathe as Rose :laugh2:

thats i lil drastic Westbrooks is the3rd best playerto come out that draft class. as of right he isnt that far beihnd of rose

dominater6192
01-05-2010, 07:21 PM
That would be a valid arguement if Westbrook wasn't playing well. Westbrook has been playing really well since game one.

So since when does shooting 39% from field and averaging 3.8 TO constitute as playing REALLY well consistently? Westbrook is a very talented good young player but your comparison is based on ONE game. And you going as far to say that Westbrook DOMINATED Rose is not true. Look at the boxscore of Rose in the first quarter: 8pts 4 asts and 2 boards. That was the only quarter Westbrook guarded Rose it was Sefelosha the rest of the game. Rose was owning Westbrook so bad someone different had to be put on him.

Stunner
01-05-2010, 07:25 PM
Westbrook outplayed Rose??? Wish you guys had watched the game. Rose was just destroying Westbrook in the 1st half and Westbrook was just reckless in the 1st half.

What Thunder's coach did was put Thabo on Rose and just built a wall inside so Rose doesn't go inside, Rose went inside few times and got hammered with NO CALL. Because Thabo was guarding Rose, Rose was guarding Thabo on the other side while Hinrich was guarding Westbrook and at times Bulls switched for stupidest reason and Westbrook scored - also a lot of it were on the fastbreak with Bulls turning it over.

Also, this same westbrook - last year Rose knocked down 10-10 field goals over westbrook and the same thunder team in OKC and took over the game and won it. Nobody from Bulls board came and said - yeah Rose is better because of that game. Let their games speak - not 1 game.

Damn nuff said. lol

Cubs Win
01-05-2010, 07:26 PM
I don't think the OP even watched the game. When Westbrook tried to guard Rose, he got absolutely torched. When Rose was guarding Westbrook, Westbrook's offense was average to slightly above average. That's why they took Westbrook off of him. When they put him back on Rose in the 4th quarter, Rose immediately began to attack him again until they have to put Westbrook on someone else again. Meanwhile, Westbrook's production mostly came while being guarded by Hinrich/Salmons. Let me ask this: Over what 7 game stretch of his career did Westbrook average over 25 points per game and over 7 assists per game as the number one option on his team?

The Answer: He has never done that.

ProdigyI
01-05-2010, 07:28 PM
OP was obviously trying to get a rise out of the Chicago fans

dominater6192
01-05-2010, 07:39 PM
OP was obviously trying to get a rise out of the Chicago fans

Yeah no one can be that stupid to try and pose this as a legitimate argument... especially after one game.

DCB/LAL
01-05-2010, 07:54 PM
Are people going to realize that they should be looking past all the hype on Rose and giving credit to the better 2nd year PG?

Westbrook ripped the Bulls last night, particularly Rose... so I ask:

Does the game last night show you anything about the comparison of these two players?

Doesn't matter neither is as Good as CP3 or D-Will. Their job as PGs is to bring the team to its potential and set-up other players and neither can do either.

I like Westbrook he averages about 2 points less than Rose but about 2 more ASSISTS more than Rose and also has a slightly better average in Steals per game.


"Potential" means nothing to me. I care about here and now and Roses "potential" doesn't make him a better player at the moment.

Rose is highly OVERRATED I cant believe some people even wanna throw him in the same poll as CP3, D-Will, and Nash to name a few.

bbcmillionaire
01-05-2010, 07:56 PM
Westbrook is also one of the best defenders at PG while Rose is below average.

EDIT: He is also a better rebounder. Forgot about that one.

what hahaha did you guys see the game or just watch the stats, rose raped westbrook at every turn, but westbrook is good, so is mario chalmers, their draft class had some damn good players

Baller1
01-05-2010, 07:59 PM
I don't think the OP even watched the game. When Westbrook tried to guard Rose, he got absolutely torched. When Rose was guarding Westbrook, Westbrook's offense was average to slightly above average. That's why they took Westbrook off of him. When they put him back on Rose in the 4th quarter, Rose immediately began to attack him again until they have to put Westbrook on someone else again. Meanwhile, Westbrook's production mostly came while being guarded by Hinrich/Salmons. Let me ask this: Over what 7 game stretch of his career did Westbrook average over 25 points per game and over 7 assists per game as the number one option on his team?

The Answer: He has never done that.

Wow, alright.

Then let me ask you this: Who has recorded more double-double's this season? (Hint: One has 8, the other has two).

Here's one more: Has Derrick Rose ever recorded a triple-double? (Note: Westbrook has).

Baller1
01-05-2010, 08:11 PM
So since when does shooting 39% from field and averaging 3.8 TO constitute as playing REALLY well consistently? Westbrook is a very talented good young player but your comparison is based on ONE game. And you going as far to say that Westbrook DOMINATED Rose is not true. Look at the boxscore of Rose in the first quarter: 8pts 4 asts and 2 boards. That was the only quarter Westbrook guarded Rose it was Sefelosha the rest of the game. Rose was owning Westbrook so bad someone different had to be put on him.

First of all, Westbrook averages 3.1 TPG. so you're wrong right off the bat. Secondly, Rose averages .3 less at 2.8. Guess what that leads to... I'll tell you. A higher assist to turnover ratio for Westbrook. Nice try though.

Want to play the percentage game? Rose shoots .147% from 3-point range. I just hope some of you realize how ridiculously pathetic that is. Let me go on though... Rose take two more shots per game, but averages just two more points than Westbrook, while Westbrook averages two more assists as well as 2 more rebounds. On the season, Westbrook has the highest efficiency rating of all sophomore players.

So I ask: Would you rather have 2 points or 2 assists + 2 rebounds? I know my answer.

Also, you all like to use the "Rose has been amazing since he got over his injury" arguement. Fair enough, he's been great since then. But, let's take a look. Here are some stats from both of these player's last 10 games...

Rose: 23.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.2 apg, .78 spg, all on .468% shooting. (0 double-doubles)
Russ: 17.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.7 apg, .106 spg, all on .413% shooting. (4 double-doubles)

Again, the question remains: Do you want the higher scorer or the better all-around player as your PG?

Toenail Clipper
01-05-2010, 08:12 PM
I'm going to be biased, since I hate Westbrook, but he's no where near Rose :D
LOL

Ray_R
01-05-2010, 08:18 PM
Want to play the percentage game? Rose shoots .147% from 3-point range. I just hope some of you realize how ridiculously pathetic that is. Let me go on though... Rose take two more shots per game, but averages just two more points than Westbrook, while Westbrook averages two more assists as well as 2 more rebounds. On the season, Westbrook has the highest efficiency rating of all sophomore players.

So I ask: Would you rather have 2 points or 2 assists + 2 rebounds? I know my answer.

Also, you all like to use the "Rose has been amazing since he got over his injury" arguement. Fair enough, he's been great since then. But, let's take a look. Here are some stats from both of these player's last 10 games...

Rose: 23.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.2 apg, .78 spg, all on .468% shooting. (0 double-doubles)
Russ: 17.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.7 apg, .106 spg, all on .413% shooting. (4 double-doubles)

Again, the question remains: Do you want the higher scorer or the better all-around player as your PG?


I WANT DERRICK ROSE :up: SOme ONe who can take over games and Win me a Game.

Sadds The Gr8
01-05-2010, 08:31 PM
first of all, westbrook averages 3.1 tpg. So you're wrong right off the bat. Secondly, rose averages .3 less at 2.8. Guess what that leads to... I'll tell you. A higher assist to turnover ratio for westbrook. Nice try though.

Want to play the percentage game? Rose shoots .147% from 3-point range. I just hope some of you realize how ridiculously pathetic that is. Let me go on though... Rose take two more shots per game, but averages just two more points than westbrook, while westbrook averages two more assists as well as 2 more rebounds. On the season, westbrook has the highest efficiency rating of all sophomore players.

So i ask: Would you rather have 2 points or 2 assists + 2 rebounds? I know my answer.

Also, you all like to use the "rose has been amazing since he got over his injury" arguement. Fair enough, he's been great since then. But, let's take a look. Here are some stats from both of these player's last 10 games...

Rose: 23.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.2 apg, .78 spg, all on .468% shooting. (0 double-doubles)
russ: 17.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.7 apg, .106 spg, all on .413% shooting. (4 double-doubles)

again, the question remains: Do you want the higher scorer or the better all-around player as your pg?

100% agreed! Westbrook>>>rose

Brew Crew
01-05-2010, 08:34 PM
Westbrook is a beast!

TopsyTurvy
01-05-2010, 08:40 PM
I would take the duo of Westbrook and Durant over Rose and Deng any day. I don't think Westbrook would enjoy nearly as much success if he were playing PG for the Bulls right now, hence I give the nod to Rose.

IversonIsKrazy
01-05-2010, 08:59 PM
Rose after being comfortable after his injury, has been putting up around 21ppg, 6apg, 5rpg, i still cant believe he manages to get any assists, I mean Kirk Hinrich is their best shooter, who usually shoots and misses by a little, kind of like Mario Chalmers, and their best post moves comes from a raw but improving Joakim Noah. Westbrooks turnovers is just too high, and lastly, he is shooting 39%FG, while Rose since mid-nov has been around 48%.

Rose is pretty much carrying the Bulls right now, if Westbrooke was put in the same situation, he would shoot an even less percentage to prolly abt 35%, without making the playoffs at 7th seed.

NANDOKNICK
01-05-2010, 09:04 PM
But then Duhon is on his own level.



In my opinion, Russel Westbrook and Derrick Rose are at the same level. In the near future, there is no question these guys will be the most dominant point guards. However, as of now, I would give the slight edge to Derrick Rose.

NANDOKNICK
01-05-2010, 09:06 PM
Not fair to throw Durant into it as I would take Mud and Durant over
just about any pair.




I would take the duo of Westbrook and Durant over Rose and Deng any day. I don't think Westbrook would enjoy nearly as much success if he were playing PG for the Bulls right now, hence I give the nod to Rose.

Bulls_fan90
01-05-2010, 09:22 PM
That COmin from a guy who all the Good tweam happen to be his favorite team...

LOL i was thinking the same thing...wtf does he support 5 teams??

Anyway Rose>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Westbrook

Kakaroach
01-05-2010, 09:30 PM
Their both great young PGs', I'd take Rose just of the upside.

Cubs Win
01-05-2010, 11:18 PM
Wow, alright.

Then let me ask you this: Who has recorded more double-double's this season? (Hint: One has 8, the other has two).

Here's one more: Has Derrick Rose ever recorded a triple-double? (Note: Westbrook has).

That's great and all, but double-doubles and triple doubles don't win games by themselves. I notice how you completely avoided the fact that I mentioned in which Rose torched Westbrook whenever Westbrook was "guarding him." Westbrook could not do the same. If Rose were playing with Durant at SF I could tell you without a doubt that team would be a hell of a lot better than 19-15. Even assuming Rose still played hurt for the first month or so he'd be averaging 20/8/4 while shooting about 47%. Do you understand how much easier it is to rack up assists with Durant (one of the league's top 5 scorers) on your team in comparison to Luol Deng being your best other scorer and Kirk Hinrich being the best shooter?

Are you aware that despite the fact defense key in on Durant, Westbrook is currently unable to crack 40% for his FG%? Other teams key in soley on D-Rose and he is still able to shoot almost 46% from the field (despite playing injured for the first month). Derrick Rose is easily the better player right now and will only continue to separate himself from Westbrook as their careers continue.

ChiSox219
01-05-2010, 11:35 PM
Westbrook couldn't stay in front of Rose last night, that's why the Thunder kept putting Thabo Sefolosha on Rose.

Found that interesting, considering how much talk I've heard about Westbrook's defense.

Cubs Win
01-05-2010, 11:39 PM
Westbrook couldn't stay in front of Rose last night, that's why the Thunder kept putting Thabo Sefolosha on Rose.

Found that interesting, considering how much talk I've heard about Westbrook's defense.

I found that interesting as well. Hell, if Westbrook is truly the best (or at least one of the best) defensive PGs in the league, we are in for a fun next decade in Chicago because he couldn't stop Rose at all. And I mean at all, Rose blew past him every time he wanted to.

b_rad23
01-06-2010, 12:07 AM
Westbrook right now is better all-around IMO.

Better defender and rebounder.

He needs to get his FG up.

I think Rose will be better in the long run, but Westbrook is much more well rounded ATM

J$mo0th_3o5
01-06-2010, 12:09 AM
Alston>>>>>>Rose,Westbrook

Baller1
01-06-2010, 12:22 AM
That's great and all, but double-doubles and triple doubles don't win games by themselves. I notice how you completely avoided the fact that I mentioned in which Rose torched Westbrook whenever Westbrook was "guarding him." Westbrook could not do the same. If Rose were playing with Durant at SF I could tell you without a doubt that team would be a hell of a lot better than 19-15. Even assuming Rose still played hurt for the first month or so he'd be averaging 20/8/4 while shooting about 47%. Do you understand how much easier it is to rack up assists with Durant (one of the league's top 5 scorers) on your team in comparison to Luol Deng being your best other scorer and Kirk Hinrich being the best shooter?

Are you aware that despite the fact defense key in on Durant, Westbrook is currently unable to crack 40% for his FG%? Other teams key in soley on D-Rose and he is still able to shoot almost 46% from the field (despite playing injured for the first month). Derrick Rose is easily the better player right now and will only continue to separate himself from Westbrook as their careers continue.

Is it just a coincidence that you happened to miss my entire post comparing the two? Or are you just avoiding it on purpose?

Stunner
01-06-2010, 12:25 AM
That's great and all, but double-doubles and triple doubles don't win games by themselves. I notice how you completely avoided the fact that I mentioned in which Rose torched Westbrook whenever Westbrook was "guarding him." Westbrook could not do the same. If Rose were playing with Durant at SF I could tell you without a doubt that team would be a hell of a lot better than 19-15. Even assuming Rose still played hurt for the first month or so he'd be averaging 20/8/4 while shooting about 47%. Do you understand how much easier it is to rack up assists with Durant (one of the league's top 5 scorers) on your team in comparison to Luol Deng being your best other scorer and Kirk Hinrich being the best shooter?

Are you aware that despite the fact defense key in on Durant, Westbrook is currently unable to crack 40% for his FG%? Other teams key in soley on D-Rose and he is still able to shoot almost 46% from the field (despite playing injured for the first month). Derrick Rose is easily the better player right now and will only continue to separate himself from Westbrook as their careers continue.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPLQ43JVYU

Cubs Win
01-06-2010, 12:28 AM
Is it just a coincidence that you happened to miss my entire post comparing the two? Or are you just avoiding it on purpose?

Which post is this? The one in which you mentioned how many double-doubles and triple-doubles each player had? I hope that's not the one you're referring to because that is the most assanine way of comparing players that I have perhaps EVER heard of.

Cubs Win
01-06-2010, 12:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPLQ43JVYU

:laugh: Good **** bro.

king4day
01-06-2010, 12:32 AM
I'd still take Rose. I'd love to see Rose play with Durant. He'd be sick.

sargon21
01-06-2010, 12:32 AM
rose has one of the best midrange jumpshots in the league, obv better than westbrook, look it up

king4day
01-06-2010, 12:36 AM
.

Cubs Win
01-06-2010, 12:36 AM
I'd still take Rose. I'd love to see Rose play with Durant. He'd be sick.

Hopefully Durant says he'll refuse to re-sign with OKC but he'd love to be traded to Chicago for Luol Deng straight up. :D

king4day
01-06-2010, 12:37 AM
What has Westbrook been doing that's got everyone raving? I haven't seen much of him.

Cubs Win
01-06-2010, 12:41 AM
What has Westbrook been doing that's got everyone raving? I haven't seen much of him.

He's a good defender, very explosive to the basket, and isn't afraid to sneak inside and grab a rebound that many PGs shy away from. He also gets a good amount of assists (although its hard to tell how much of that is due to the fact he plays with Durant). He's a good young PG, but needs to work on his jumpshot because for a guy as explosive as him, it is incredibly troubling that he is shooting under 40% from the field, especially with teams focusing on Durant as the number one option. He's got potential to be a great PG but isn't as good as Rose now, and his ceiling isn't as high as Rose's either.

Note: I said good defender because I hesitate to call him a great defender due to his complete inability to stop Rose.

DCB/LAL
01-06-2010, 12:50 AM
Hopefully Durant says he'll refuse to re-sign with OKC but he'd love to be traded to Chicago for Luol Deng straight up. :D

:facepalm: Oh lord first T-mac then Kobe then Lebron then Wade now Durant?

You guys said yourselves that the Bulls team is trash now I ask you why would anyone trade their Superstar for your "Crap"?

Cubs Win
01-06-2010, 12:51 AM
:facepalm: Oh lord first T-mac then Kobe then Lebron then Wade now Durant?

You guys said yourselves that the Bulls team is trash now I ask you why would anyone trade their Superstar for your "Crap"?

Hey, at least you're good at recognizing sarcasm!

(This is also sarcasm. I figured I'd let you know since you are apparently not very good at detecting it.)

DCB/LAL
01-06-2010, 12:54 AM
Hey, at least you're good at recognizing sarcasm!

(This is also sarcasm. I figured I'd let you know since you are apparently not very good at detecting it.)

Sarcasm? whats that?

dominater6192
01-06-2010, 03:19 AM
First of all, Westbrook averages 3.1 TPG. so you're wrong right off the bat. Secondly, Rose averages .3 less at 2.8. Guess what that leads to... I'll tell you. A higher assist to turnover ratio for Westbrook. Nice try though.

Want to play the percentage game? Rose shoots .147% from 3-point range. I just hope some of you realize how ridiculously pathetic that is. Let me go on though... Rose take two more shots per game, but averages just two more points than Westbrook, while Westbrook averages two more assists as well as 2 more rebounds. On the season, Westbrook has the highest efficiency rating of all sophomore players.

So I ask: Would you rather have 2 points or 2 assists + 2 rebounds? I know my answer.

Also, you all like to use the "Rose has been amazing since he got over his injury" arguement. Fair enough, he's been great since then. But, let's take a look. Here are some stats from both of these player's last 10 games...

Rose: 23.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.2 apg, .78 spg, all on .468% shooting. (0 double-doubles)
Russ: 17.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.7 apg, .106 spg, all on .413% shooting. (4 double-doubles)

Again, the question remains: Do you want the higher scorer or the better all-around player as your PG?

First of all Rose has taken 12(made 2) 3pters all year so to call Rose's Three point percentage pothetic is pothetic. Meanwhile Westbrook has shot 72 3pters and made 21 of them. So Westbrook has missed 41 more 3pters than Rose. At this stage in their neither player is a good 3pt shooter. Rose plays to the strength of his game and does’nt throw up poor shots like Westbrook. I think it’s very impressive that Rose has only made 2 3pters all year and is averaging 18 plus a game for a PG this season. There is probably only a handful of guards able to do that especially ones who have played through injury for two months. What I WOULD consider somewhat pothetic is for a guard to be shooting under 40%. Rose shoots nearly 60 pts higher than Westbrook from the field with much greater attention paid to him. Westbrook has the privellege of playing with Kevin Durant, one of the top scorers in the league, opposing defenses focus their entire game plan towards him not Westbrook while Bulls opponents concentrate most on Rose. Rose is the only PG to get consistently double teamed on pick and roll, opponents crowd the lane leaving jump shooters open and sometimes double Rose at half court. None of these precautions would ever happen to Westbrook because Durant would destroy them. Rose is the focal point of defense’s strategy while Westbrook is a second option yet still Rose is a better scorer and shoots a much higher percentage. Rose is the Bulls Go-To-Guy and game changer. He has the ability to take control of the game and as mcuh as you may argue it, it can never be proved for Westbrook because Durant will always be the better player and scorer and the OKC coach would want the ball in his hands not Westbrook. But the thing is Rose is ‘nt just this scorer that you describe him as,your argument is saying that assists are completely reflective of a players passing and facilitating ability which is complete BS. Assists also highly depend on the player's teamates ability to exectute. The Bulls are 3rd worst shooting team in NBA(.432) while Thunder are 17th best(.454). But if you take out Rose's .456 FG% the rest of the BUlls are shooting just .423 and if you take out Westbrook .398 FG% the rest of the Thunder are shooting .468. Westbrook's teamates are shooting 45pts better than Rose's. So i think it's fair to say that that the Thunder exectue better than the Bulls. Rose's assists are lower because his team can't score, he is a pass first PG not a 'scorer." He was actually criticized this year for passing too much. It is stupid to say Westbrook a better passer just because he has more assists and he has better shooters on his team. Numbers are Numbers but actually watch a BUlls game and see how many open looks Rose gives his team before you call Westbrook a better facilitator. Rose is the better PG and better player. He might not rebound as well as Westbrook or play defense as well but he can facilitate,score and completely take over a game. Don’t get me wrong I think Westbrook will be a top PG in the West one day he can do a lot of good things in every aspect of the game but he is not better than Rose right now… try and make this argument again at end of the season when Rose has 50 more games with a healthy ankle instead of comparing a season healthy Westbrook to an injuried Rose or by comparing the stats of ONE game.

mavwar53
01-06-2010, 03:41 AM
Russel is better, he is an all around player that doesn't have too much of an offense yet, he to me is a more athletic jason kidd with less passing skills but the same amount of passing skills or more than rose.

sean17c
01-06-2010, 05:31 AM
omg everyone is hating on d rose. lol. westbrook gets a few more assists because he has KEVIN DURANT!! who is putting up 30 a game. rose is our leading scorer.

rose is a franchise player with some good players around him, but the team does not mesh well. smh at comparing westbrook to rose
lmao

sean17c
01-06-2010, 05:33 AM
Russel is better, he is an all around player that doesn't have too much of an offense yet, he to me is a more athletic jason kidd with less passing skills but the same amount of passing skills or more than rose.

how is he better all around with less offensive skills then rose?
and about the same passing?

smh

fredv
01-06-2010, 06:15 AM
Didn't read thread because no one care's and thread title just shows how much the OP is biased.

quade36
01-06-2010, 10:02 AM
thread = fail;

Baller1
01-06-2010, 11:07 AM
Which post is this? The one in which you mentioned how many double-doubles and triple-doubles each player had? I hope that's not the one you're referring to because that is the most assanine way of comparing players that I have perhaps EVER heard of.


First of all, Westbrook averages 3.1 TPG. so you're wrong right off the bat. Secondly, Rose averages .3 less at 2.8. Guess what that leads to... I'll tell you. A higher assist to turnover ratio for Westbrook. Nice try though.

Want to play the percentage game? Rose shoots .147% from 3-point range. I just hope some of you realize how ridiculously pathetic that is. Let me go on though... Rose take two more shots per game, but averages just two more points than Westbrook, while Westbrook averages two more assists as well as 2 more rebounds. On the season, Westbrook has the highest efficiency rating of all sophomore players.

So I ask: Would you rather have 2 points or 2 assists + 2 rebounds? I know my answer.

Also, you all like to use the "Rose has been amazing since he got over his injury" arguement. Fair enough, he's been great since then. But, let's take a look. Here are some stats from both of these player's last 10 games...

Rose: 23.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.2 apg, .78 spg, all on .468% shooting. (0 double-doubles)
Russ: 17.2 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.7 apg, .106 spg, all on .413% shooting. (4 double-doubles)

Again, the question remains: Do you want the higher scorer or the better all-around player as your PG?

There.

Cool007
01-06-2010, 11:09 AM
Oh Westbrook is better than Rose because he outplayed him in 1 freaking game?

The same way Hibbert is better than Dwight coz he destroyed Dwight and Magic yesterday.

Dwight: 2-6fg 7-12ft 11 points 15 rebounds 0 assist 6 fouls 5 TOs 2 blk
vs
Hibbert: 10-19fg 6-9ft 26 points 8 rebounds 3 assists 4 fouls 2 TOs 4 blk

All I can do to OP is :facepalm:

Overreacting much???

Turtle55
01-06-2010, 11:22 AM
Oh Westbrook is better than Rose because he outplayed him in 1 freaking game?

The same way Hibbert is better than Dwight coz he destroyed Dwight and Magic yesterday.

Dwight: 2-6fg 7-12ft 11 points 15 rebounds 0 assist 6 fouls 5 TOs 2 blk
vs
Hibbert: 10-19fg 6-9ft 26 points 8 rebounds 3 assists 4 fouls 2 TOs 4 blk

All I can do to OP is :facepalm:

Overreacting much???

He's not overreacting, he's probably been just sitting there for the last couple weeks just begging for a chance to make a thread bashing Rose. Haters will hate.

toovey107
01-06-2010, 11:29 AM
Yes, Westbrook has played better overall this year, and is a much better defender.

But, lets not ignore the fact that he also plays with Durant, Rose was injured the beginning of the year and is still under the VDN system.

I like Westbrook , I just don't understand why some people have to start the same damn threads over and over again comparing players.

yuns554
01-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Everyone is sayin that westbrook is the far superior defender yet Rose was blowing by him non-stop, that's why they switched Sefolosha on Rose. Watch the game people

b_rad23
01-06-2010, 12:01 PM
one game vs. body of work yuns

Stunner
01-06-2010, 01:34 PM
Everyone get off Rose stick, Rose is better than Westbrook. Westbrook was gunning in that game stop hateing on Rose.

Cubs Win
01-06-2010, 02:07 PM
There.

Well you're point about three point shooting is complete BS. Rose has now taken 13 three pointers this whole year. A few of them were just because the shot clock was winding down and someone needed to throw up a shot or because the game was coming to an end and we needed three points. Westbrook's 3 Pt. % is nothing to brag about. It just means he doesn't really play within his game, like Rose does. Lets take an even bigger sample size (the last 15 games):

Rose: 22.5 points, 6.4 assists, 4.2 rebounds on 46.4% shooting (142/306)
Westbrook: 16.4 points, 7.5 assists, 3.7 rebounds on 38.8% shooting (92/237)

Looking at these, it is clear, like everyone knows that Rose is the better scorer. When looking at assists we have to consider the teammates. As someone brought up earlier, the Bulls without Rose shoot 42.3%, while the Thunder without Westbrook shoot 46.8%. Also let's consider that Westbrook has a top 5 scorer in Durant playing alongside him (28.4 ppg on 47.8% shooting), whereas Rose (as I mentioned earlier) has Deng, a slasher (which can take away assists), as his best scorer (17.6 ppg) and Kirk Hinrich as the best shooter playing alongside him (with a 36.7 FG%). So I'd say that a 1.1 assist per game lead for Westbrook is hardly an indicator that he is a better passer. Rose could easily have 3 more assists per game (and that's a conservative estimate) because of missed wide open jumpers that he created. In addition, while I don't consider rebounds that important for PGs, Rose also has a slight edge in this area (at least over the last 15 games). Then lets take a look at the shooting percentage. Rose shoots almost 8% better! Shooting 38.8% is completely UNACCEPTABLE for a PG as explosive as Westbrook, although yes, he is not as explosive as Derrick Rose this does not make up for an 8% FG% difference.

Again, the question remains: Do you want a better scorer, arguably better passer, similar rebounder, and a shooter who is in a completely different league (mostly due to Westbrook's FG%) or a decent scorer who isn't clearly even as good of a passer that seems to have an inability to shoot 40% from the field as a PG?

Cubs Win
01-06-2010, 02:09 PM
one game vs. body of work yuns

So you're saying that Rose is clearly the better player?
That's what it would seem based on your one game vs. body of work comment.

DCB/LAL
01-06-2010, 09:02 PM
Everybody acts as if Westbrook only performed this one Game. Chicago homers are horrible!

Career stats.....


Rose

Min PG: 36:47
PPG:17.3
Blk:0.3
Stl:0.8
TO:2.6
Ast:6.2
Reb:3.8
FT%:78.7
3PT%:21.2
FG%:47.1
PF:1.4

Westbrook

Min PG: 33:23
PPG:15.6
Blk:0.3
Stl:1.3
TO:3.3
Ast:5.9
Reb:4.9
FT%:79.9
3PT%:27.1
FG%:39.8
PF:2.4

Oh and for those of you who like PER like JB here they are


Rose PER: 16.53

Westbrook PER: 16.85

And some of talk about how its only one game(whcih obviously isn't only one game by looking at career stats) and that he should even be compared to Rose but yet you guys Esp. Bulls fans wanna throw Rose in the same poll as CP3, Nash and D-Will? :facepalm:


Sorry to burst your bubble but Rose and Westbrook are on the same level. And stats and numbers prove that.

Stunner
01-06-2010, 09:20 PM
Everybody acts as if Westbrook only performed this one Game. Chicago homers are horrible!

Career stats.....


Rose

Min PG: 36:47
PPG:17.3
Blk:0.3
Stl:0.8
TO:2.6
Ast:6.2
Reb:3.8
FT%:78.7
3PT%:21.2
FG%:47.1
PF:1.4

Westbrook

Min PG: 33:23
PPG:15.6
Blk:0.3
Stl:1.3
TO:3.3
Ast:5.9
Reb:4.9
FT%:79.9
3PT%:27.1
FG%:39.8
PF:2.4

Oh and for those of you who like PER like JB here they are


Rose PER: 16.53

Westbrook PER: 16.85

And some of talk about how its only one game(whcih obviously isn't only one game by looking at career stats) and that he should even be compared to Rose but yet you guys Esp. Bulls fans wanna throw Rose in the same poll as CP3, Nash and D-Will? :facepalm:


Sorry to burst your bubble but Rose and Westbrook are on the same level. And stats and numbers prove that.


No we dont we said in 2 and 3 years he will be able to be in that poll.

Cubs Win
01-06-2010, 11:53 PM
Everybody acts as if Westbrook only performed this one Game. Chicago homers are horrible!

Career stats.....


Rose

Min PG: 36:47
PPG:17.3
Blk:0.3
Stl:0.8
TO:2.6
Ast:6.2
Reb:3.8
FT%:78.7
3PT%:21.2
FG%:47.1
PF:1.4

Westbrook

Min PG: 33:23
PPG:15.6
Blk:0.3
Stl:1.3
TO:3.3
Ast:5.9
Reb:4.9
FT%:79.9
3PT%:27.1
FG%:39.8
PF:2.4

Oh and for those of you who like PER like JB here they are


Rose PER: 16.53

Westbrook PER: 16.85

And some of talk about how its only one game(whcih obviously isn't only one game by looking at career stats) and that he should even be compared to Rose but yet you guys Esp. Bulls fans wanna throw Rose in the same poll as CP3, Nash and D-Will? :facepalm:


Sorry to burst your bubble but Rose and Westbrook are on the same level. And stats and numbers prove that.

Do you realize that two of the categories you bolded for Westbrook (turnovers and personal fouls) are actually bad if they are higher? That basically removes credibilty from anything you've ever said for me.

DCB/LAL
01-07-2010, 07:38 AM
Do you realize that two of the categories you bolded for Westbrook (turnovers and personal fouls) are actually bad if they are higher? That basically removes credibilty from anything you've ever said for me.

And did you realize that everything that was bolded was the higher number GOOD OR BAD?

I stand by what I said both very simlilar and on the same level prove to me otherwise. Show me proof. Neither has an Huge accolades Rose won Rookie of the year Great! So has Emeka Okafor, Mike Miller and Steve Francis and Damon Stoudamire! Go look at all these players stats and their almost IDENTICAL to Rose stats especially Francis and Stoudamire.

Rose is Overrated! Say im wrong and prove that I am. If you disagree that is.

Cubs Win
01-07-2010, 07:46 AM
And did you realize that everything that was bolded was the higher number GOOD OR BAD?

I stand by what I said both very simlilar and on the same level prove to me otherwise. Show me proof.

I have proved it time and time again throughout this thread. If you'd like to, feel free to take a look at some of my prior posts. I'm not wasting my time re-describing the same thing once again.

DCB/LAL
01-07-2010, 07:52 AM
I have proved it time and time again throughout this thread. If you'd like to, feel free to take a look at some of my prior posts. I'm not wasting my time re-describing the same thing once again.

How? Because Westbrook has Durant? Because Rose has "crap" players according to some Bulls fans? Cause it sure AS HELL ISN'T because he makes his teammates better. If he did they'd be winning more games. Their 5 games below .500 in THE EASTERN CONF! Why is he better? Or is it because Westbrook avg 1 more turnover per game? Com'on really?

Cubs Win
01-07-2010, 07:58 AM
How? Because Westbrook has Durant? Because Rose has "crap" players according to some Bulls fans? Cause it sure AS HELL ISN'T because he makes his teammates better. If he did they'd be winning more games. Their 5 games below .500 in THE EASTERN CONF! Why is he better? Or is it because Westbrook avg 1 more turnover per game? Com'on really?

If you've read what I had to say and you're not convinced, that's fine with me. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince one stubborn Laker fan why Derrick Rose is better than Westbrook (which he clearly is). At least next time LeBron ***** on your Lakers, the classless fans of LA won't be able to throw things onto the court.

DCB/LAL
01-07-2010, 08:08 AM
Well you're point about three point shooting is complete BS. Rose has now taken 13 three pointers this whole year. A few of them were just because the shot clock was winding down and someone needed to throw up a shot or because the game was coming to an end and we needed three points. Westbrook's 3 Pt. % is nothing to brag about. It just means he doesn't really play within his game, like Rose does. Lets take an even bigger sample size (the last 15 games):

Rose: 22.5 points, 6.4 assists, 4.2 rebounds on 46.4% shooting (142/306)
Westbrook: 16.4 points, 7.5 assists, 3.7 rebounds on 38.8% shooting (92/237)

Looking at these, it is clear, like everyone knows that Rose is the better scorer. 1.)When looking at assists we have to consider the teammates. As someone brought up earlier, the Bulls without Rose shoot 42.3%, while the Thunder without Westbrook shoot 46.8%. Also let's consider that Westbrook has a top 5 scorer in Durant playing alongside him (28.4 ppg on 47.8% shooting), whereas Rose (as I mentioned earlier) has Deng, a slasher (which can take away assists), as his best scorer (17.6 ppg) and Kirk Hinrich as the best shooter playing alongside him (with a 36.7 FG%). So I'd say that a 1.1 assist per game lead for Westbrook is hardly an indicator that he is a better passer. Rose could easily have 3 more assists per game (and that's a conservative estimate) because of missed wide open jumpers that he created. In addition, while I don't consider rebounds that important for PGs, Rose also has a slight edge in this area (at least over the last 15 games). Then lets take a look at the shooting percentage. Rose shoots almost 8% better! Shooting 38.8% is completely UNACCEPTABLE for a PG as explosive as Westbrook, although yes, he is not as explosive as Derrick Rose this does not make up for an 8% FG% difference.

Again, the question remains: Do you want a better scorer, arguably better passer, similar rebounder, and a shooter who is in a completely different league (mostly due to Westbrook's FG%) or a decent scorer who isn't clearly even as good of a passer that seems to have an inability to shoot 40% from the field as a PG?

Ok now your just looking at the things that BENEFIT Rose!

You talk about how Westbrook averages more assists because he has better teammates right? But you fail to mention how Rose is the Bulls #1 option and takes 2.3 more shots than Westbrook a game didn't you? Or about how Westbrook isn't the #1 scoring option for his team why not mention any of that?

Oh and a little FYI a guy by the name of Jason Kidd shots 40% from the field and thats pretty much his career avg too and I would say he turned out just fine didn't he? Oh and Westbrook shots 39.5 not 38.8 from the field. Guess why Kidd turned out fine? Because he is a PG who SET-UP his teammates! Just like Westbrook!

DCB/LAL
01-07-2010, 08:10 AM
If you've read what I had to say and you're not convinced, that's fine with me. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince one stubborn Laker fan why Derrick Rose is better than Westbrook (which he clearly is). At least next time LeBron ***** on your Lakers, the classless fans of LA won't be able to throw things onto the court.

Awe now your getting all BUTT HURT because someone disagrees with you. :violin:

Read my post above and prove me wrong then.

Cubs Win
01-07-2010, 08:21 AM
Ok now your just looking at the things that BENEFIT Rose!

You talk about how Westbrook averages more assists because he has better teammates right? But you fail to mention how Rose is the Bulls #1 option and takes 2.3 more shots than Westbrook a game didn't you? Or about how Westbrook isn't the #1 scoring option for his team why not mention any of that?

Oh and a little FYI a guy by the name of Jason Kidd shots 40% from the field and thats pretty much his career avg too and I would say he turned out just fine didn't he? Oh and Westbrook shots 39.5 not 38.8 from the field. Guess why Kidd turned out fine? Because he is a PG who SET-UP his teammates! Just like Westbrook!

I'm not sure what Derrick Rose taking 2.3 shots more per game has to with this argument. The fact is Rose is a #1 option and Westbrook is a #2 option. Rose SHOULD take more shots! And let me ask you this: Do you think Durant hurts or doesn't help at all in terms of Westbrook's assists? Or do you think having one of the top 5 scorers in the league would help Westbrook's assist numbers?

Another thing, don't compare Russell Westbrook to Jason Kidd. Kidd is an accomplished veteran and future HOFer. Russell Westbrook is a second year PG with solid numbers. If you are comparing Westbrook to Kidd, it would be just as fair for me to compare Rose to Dwyane Wade (which I'm not claiming it is). And second, why don't you actually read what I wrote. Westbrook's FG% is 38.8% over the last 15 games, which were being compared (not 39.5% which you mistakenly claimed).

DCB/LAL
01-07-2010, 08:32 AM
I'm not sure what Derrick Rose taking 2.3 shots more per game has to with this argument. The fact is Rose is a #1 option and Westbrook is a #2 option. Rose SHOULD take more shots! And let me ask you this: 1.)Do you think Durant hurts or doesn't help at all in terms of Westbrook's assists? Or do you think having one of the top 5 scorers in the league would help Westbrook's assist numbers?

2.)Another thing, don't compare Russell Westbrook to Jason Kidd. Kidd is an accomplished veteran and future HOFer. Russell Westbrook is a second year PG with solid numbers. If you are comparing Westbrook to Kidd, it would be just as fair for me to compare Rose to Dwyane Wade (which I'm not claiming it is). And second, why don't you actually read what I wrote. 3.)Westbrook's FG% is 38.8% over the last 15 games, which were being compared (not 39.5% which you mistakenly claimed).

1.) Let me ask you this would you say D-Will is not as good as CP3 because he averages almost as many assists and points but he has Boozer, Okur and the overall better team? No you wouldn't would you?

2.) And im not so much comparing Westbrook to Kidd you said shooting 29% is unacceptable and im proving you can be an ELITE PG and shot 40%

3.) Sadly for you all 82 games count and not just the last 15 games so at the end of the year you look at the overall body of work through the course of the year and not just the Games that benefit Rose.

Cubs Win
01-07-2010, 10:42 AM
1.) Let me ask you this would you say D-Will is not as good as CP3 because he averages almost as many assists and points but he has Boozer, Okur and the overall better team? No you wouldn't would you?

2.) And im not so much comparing Westbrook to Kidd you said shooting 29% is unacceptable and im proving you can be an ELITE PG and shot 40%

3.) Sadly for you all 82 games count and not just the last 15 games so at the end of the year you look at the overall body of work through the course of the year and not just the Games that benefit Rose.

1) Actually it's quite the contrary. I consider D-Will to be at least as good and am pondering wether or not he is better than CP3. This is because he can have similar statistics over the course of the year, but seems to dominate the head to head matchups.

2) An ELITE PG can shoot 40% when they have the passing ability of Jason Kidd. Westbrook clearly does not have the passing ability of Jason Kidd. Just because Jason Kidd was (and maybe some say still is) an elite PG that shot around 40% doesn't mean any PG can shoot 40% and be elite. They would still need the same level of tools as Jason Kidd (or different tools better than him in different areas) to be considered elite. Russell Westbrook doesn't have this.

3) I decided to compare Rose's and Westbrook's last 15 games after the guy I was debating with decided to compare their last 10 games. These are the games when both players were 100% healthy. That seems more fair to me than comparing Rose at 80% health to Westbrook at 100% health (and not even mentioning the fact that Rose wasn't healthy while putting up equivalent numbers to those of Westbrook).

Once again, you are proven incorrect.

DCB/LAL
01-07-2010, 06:06 PM
1) Actually it's quite the contrary. I consider D-Will to be at least as good and am pondering wether or not he is better than CP3. This is because he can have similar statistics over the course of the year, but seems to dominate the head to head matchups.

2) An ELITE PG can shoot 40% when they have the passing ability of Jason Kidd. Westbrook clearly does not have the passing ability of Jason Kidd. Just because Jason Kidd was (and maybe some say still is) an elite PG that shot around 40% doesn't mean any PG can shoot 40% and be elite. They would still need the same level of tools as Jason Kidd (or different tools better than him in different areas) to be considered elite. Russell Westbrook doesn't have this.

3) I decided to compare Rose's and Westbrook's last 15 games after the guy I was debating with decided to compare their last 10 games. These are the games when both players were 100% healthy. That seems more fair to me than comparing Rose at 80% health to Westbrook at 100% health (and not even mentioning the fact that Rose wasn't healthy while putting up equivalent numbers to those of Westbrook).

Once again, you are proven incorrect.

Dude believe what you want YOUR a HOMER and its obvious. Rose is good but so is Westbrook and NOTHING Rose has done proves to me that he is better.

If your gonna say he is better please present info that ABSOLUTELY shows that Rose is better. You cant can you?


And FYI were not the only one's that feel this way. Here are some opinions NOT from BULLS HOMERS LIKE YOURSELF.




Oklahoma City vs. Chicago: Both teams are intriguing — the Bulls are playing well, the young Thunder are threatening to make the playoffs in the loaded West — but the best individual matchup will focus on dynamic PGs Derrick Rose of Chicago and Russell Westbrook of OKC. Both are freakish athletes in their second year, and while Rose's numbers are strong, Westbrook has developed into a bit more efficient a point guard, averaging 7.3 assists and 3.1 turnovers to Rose's 5.7/2.8.

Link- http://embed.technorati.com/sports/article/on-the-schedule-battles-of-the/


Here's one from 2008..



So, does Westbrook actually compare to Rose? This may be a little out there but I will explain later. First we will look at the intangibles, then we will look at the stats.

Derrick Rose lead his team to the championship but choked and missed some free throws.

Positives: Great size, advanced PG game and makes teammates better, he is a "World Class Athlete" and knows how to win. Gets to the basket and finishes. Makes good decisions and creates shots for his teammates. Good shot mechanics. Wants to make the big-play and takes it in his hand to win the games.

Negatives: Not a great shooter or free-throw shooter, needs to learn how to get through the pick and roll and is a shaky defender but it didn't show in college because he had such an advantage in athleticism it didn't show.



Russell Westbrook really took his game to the next level when it came March. That being said, Derrick Rose and co. stopped them despite Westbrook's best offensive game of the season.

Positives: The best on-ball defender in the NCAA, gets to the basket and finishes. He has a great upside, likes pressure situations, and is a very hard worker. His athleticism is right up there with Derrick Rose. He is a late bloomer. He's a good passer who lead his team in assists even though he was mostly playing SG.

Negatives: Not a great free throw shooter or shooter, (but a report from Portland said that he shot over 70 percent from the NBA three in their workouts). He needs to realize his upside and potential. Labeled a combo guard and needs to improve decision making and ball handling.



Edge: Even



Here is a quick look at their very comparable stats:



Derrick Rose

MIN
PTS
REB
AST
TO
A/T
STL
BLK
PF
FG%
FT%
3P%




29.2
14.9
4.5
4.7
2.7
1.77
1.2
.4
1.7
.477
.712
.337




Russell Westbrook

MIN
PTS
REB
AST
TO
A/T
STL
BLK
PF
FG%
FT%
3P%




33.8
12.7
3.9
4.3
2.5
1.74
1.6
.2
2.4
.465
.713
.338




They are almost identical except in points per game. This is probably because UCLA has more scorers on their team. It's just too close to call.

EDGE: Even



The "IT" factor

RW: Array of dunks against Cal. On the break he is a beast.

DR: He has the name Rose. He is a world class athlete, and you can’t argue with the No. 23.

Small edge: Derrick Rose



Offense

RW: Dunking and a decent pull up J. Great lateral movement.

DR: Dunking and absorbing contact and finishing after changing his shot. Great lateral movement.

Edge: Rose



Defense

RW: Defensive player of the year. He locked down everybody and stayed there with Derrick Rose in the Final Four. Gets to the ball and gets a lot of steals. He has long arms and keeps them in the passing lanes. He works hard and takes pride in his defense.

DR: Has great quickness and as a result gets a lot of steals. However, he doesn't know how to pull or get around screens albeit still works hard at it.

Big edge: Russell Westbrook



Athleticism

Everyone can see that Russell Westbrook is almost there but he just isn't used to his body yet.

Small edge: Rose



They are really close in all of these categories. The only distinct difference is in both of their defensive games. Westbrook pulls away from Rose in this category.

All the above being said, I believe both are going to be All-Stars. I think this justifies the Sonics' pick of Russell Westbrook at No. 4.



Link- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/33176-derrick-rose-vs-russell-westbrook-are-they-comparable-or-am-i-crazy


Please stop being a Homer Rose and Westbrook are on the SAME LEVEL and You've shown nothing to PROVE OTHERWISE! And no your Homer STATS that you choose to twist to make Rose look better and Your REASONING for Discrediting the Advantages Westbrook has are BULLS**T. Westbrook is the Better passer and avg more assists because he sets up his teammates better.


Some would even Argue that Westbrook is better.

Cubs Win
01-07-2010, 06:28 PM
So basically you couldn't argue against any of the stats I presented so you claimed I'm a homer. Then you quoted a blog that could have been written by anyone and followed that up with an analysis of their college games. And you say I don't bring good information to the table?

How am I twisting Rose's stats to make them sound better? Numbers are numbers. I compared their last 15 games just as the previous poster compared each of their last 10 games. Also, how is it "********" to discredit Westbrook for not being able to shoot 40%? Should I have just made up a percentage and claim that Westbrook shoots as well as Rose?

You also avoided one of my questions, so I'll present it again: Would having Durant on your team hurt or not effect at all the number of assists a PG gets? Or would having one of the league's top 5 scorers help a PG's assist numbers. When his team shoots about 4% better from the field, how can you not say it is easier to get more assists?

Once again, you have failed to successfully dispute any of my arguments.

DCB/LAL
01-07-2010, 06:45 PM
So basically you couldn't argue against any of the stats I presented so you claimed I'm a homer. Then you quoted a blog that could have been written by anyone and followed that up with an analysis of their college games. And you say I don't bring good information to the table?

1.)How am I twisting Rose's stats to make them sound better? Numbers are numbers. I compared their last 15 games just as the previous poster compared each of their last 10 games. Also, how is it "********" to discredit Westbrook for not being able to shoot 40%? Should I have just made up a percentage and claim that Westbrook shoots as well as Rose?

You also avoided one of my questions, so I'll present it again: Would having Durant on your team hurt or not effect at all the number of assists a PG gets? Or would having one of the league's top 5 scorers help a PG's assist numbers. When his team shoots about 4% better from the field, how can you not say it is easier to get more assists?

Once again, you have failed to successfully dispute any of my arguments.

1.) Yes you did discredit his Assists and even stated that Rebound isn't that important did you not? You put your twist on it being giving reasons why Westbrook was better at Reb and *** but failed to tell everyone why Rose avg more PPG and thats Bull.

2.) You answered the question for me You have to hold all the players to the SAME LEVEL or else its Bull!

Yes Westbrook has Durant so what it doesn't make him anyless of a PG because he has a Star playing along side of him. Thats non-sense that'd be like saying Oh Stockton wasn't as good a PG Malone made him look good. Or Magic wasn't that GREAT he had Kareem thats PURE NON-SENSE!


And before you go off and say dont compare Westbrook to Magic or STockton let me tell right now IM NOT COMPARING WESTBROOK to MAGIC OR STOCKTON im just SHOWING HOW STUPEFYING your Reasoning is.

And ive disputed your arguments now DISPUTE MINE!

Cubs Win
01-07-2010, 07:15 PM
1.) Yes you did discredit his Assists and even stated that Rebound isn't that important did you not? You put your twist on it being giving reasons why Westbrook was better at Reb and *** but failed to tell everyone why Rose avg more PPG and thats Bull.

2.) You answered the question for me You have to hold all the players to the SAME LEVEL or else its Bull!

Yes Westbrook has Durant so what it doesn't make him anyless of a PG because he has a Star playing along side of him. Thats non-sense that'd be like saying Oh Stockton wasn't as good a PG Malone made him look good. Or Magic wasn't that GREAT he had Kareem thats PURE NON-SENSE!


And before you go off and say dont compare Westbrook to Magic or STockton let me tell right now IM NOT COMPARING WESTBROOK to MAGIC OR STOCKTON im just SHOWING HOW STUPEFYING your Reasoning is.

And ive disputed your arguments now DISPUTE MINE!

1) Would you rather you're PG have 10 assists and 3 rebounds or 3 assists and 10 rebounds? Point made. Rebounds are not as important to a PG. And we have both stated why Rose gets more points per game, he is the number one option and takes 2.3 shots more per game and shoots and a much higher percentage.

2) So you're saying I should have just decided that Westbrook also shot above 45% like Rose does, although he clearly does not?

And you're saying when looking at how many assists each player receives, you should absolutely not at all look at how good the players around him shoot and score? Is it automatic that because someone averages more assists than another player they are without a doubt the better passer? Hint: No it is not. Yes, Westbrook is better than Rose at getting assists with their current respective teammates, but you claim that we should not even look at who those teammates are. That's just ignorant.

So once again, yes you have disputed my arguments but once again unsuccessfully, as I have each time ripped your arguments apart like a wet paper bag.

DCB/LAL
01-07-2010, 07:50 PM
1) Would you rather you're PG have 10 assists and 3 rebounds or 3 assists and 10 rebounds? Point made. Rebounds are not as important to a PG. And we have both stated why Rose gets more points per game, he is the number one option and takes 2.3 shots more per game and shoots and a much higher percentage.

2) So you're saying I should have just decided that Westbrook also shot above 45% like Rose does, although he clearly does not?

And you're saying when looking at how many assists each player receives, you should absolutely not at all look at how good the players around him shoot and score? Is it automatic that because someone averages more assists than another player they are without a doubt the better passer? Hint: No it is not. Yes, Westbrook is better than Rose at getting assists with their current respective teammates, but you claim that we should not even look at who those teammates are. That's just ignorant.

So once again, yes you have disputed my arguments but once again unsuccessfully, as I have each time ripped your arguments apart like a wet paper bag.

1.)No point not made because Westbrook is better in BOTH ASSISTS and REBOUNDING not just ONE!


2.) Dont know where you got the 45% shooting thing from.

3.) While Yes it may affect it answer me this in the end of their careers and this is just a "what if" for you to think about ok? What if at the end of his Career westbrook leads Rose in assists will people discredit him and would it make him less of a PG because he had Durant? IF you say YES then you'd also have to say the same about Stockton who played with a Hall of Famer and Magic who played with some as well and THAT IS JUST NONSENSE!

Plus wouldn't having Durant affect his assists # due to the fact that Durant is the #1 option and has the ball quite a bit? Rose on the other hand has the ball almost EVERY POSITION does he not?

Baller1
01-08-2010, 12:06 AM
I thought I was going to have to come on here and waste an hour of my time disproving Cubs Win. So, I want to say thank you DCB/LAL. Saved me a lot of time, because you have completely **** on Cubs' arguement.

Baller1
01-08-2010, 12:14 AM
1) Would you rather you're PG have 10 assists and 3 rebounds or 3 assists and 10 rebounds? Point made. Rebounds are not as important to a PG. And we have both stated why Rose gets more points per game, he is the number one option and takes 2.3 shots more per game and shoots and a much higher percentage.

2) So you're saying I should have just decided that Westbrook also shot above 45% like Rose does, although he clearly does not?

And you're saying when looking at how many assists each player receives, you should absolutely not at all look at how good the players around him shoot and score? Is it automatic that because someone averages more assists than another player they are without a doubt the better passer? Hint: No it is not. Yes, Westbrook is better than Rose at getting assists with their current respective teammates, but you claim that we should not even look at who those teammates are. That's just ignorant.

So once again, yes you have disputed my arguments but once again unsuccessfully, as I have each time ripped your arguments apart like a wet paper bag.

What point did you make? Westbrook averages more assists and rebounds... you literally just shot down your entire arguement right there.

You claim Rose is a #1 option, while Westbrook is a #2. That is correct. But, shouldn't a #1 option have A LOT more oppurtunities to rack up assists? Being the #1 option (and the PG for that matter), Rose has the ball in his hands EVERY single possession. Am I wrong? Therefore, more oppurtunities to pass and set up teammates.

Another point: Rose is the #1 option and you claim teams know this, therefore they focus on him when playing Chicago; correct? Well, putting it that way, Rose should demand double teams being Chicago's #1 option, leading to open players and cutters. On the contrary, if he isn't double teamed regularaly, doesn't that just prove to us that he isn't much of a threat so teams don't feel the need to double him. I mean, lets look at it this way. You specifically said, Rose has terrible shooters and a bad offense to play with. If this is true, then teams shouldn't be afraid to double him.

So any way you look at it, double teamed or not, Rose should be averaging more assists than Westbrook.

Now, I'd love to hear your excuses for this one.

Cubs Win
01-08-2010, 01:59 AM
I thought I was going to have to come on here and waste an hour of my time disproving Cubs Win. So, I want to say thank you DCB/LAL. Saved me a lot of time, because you have completely **** on Cubs' arguement.

You've yet to disprove me once, so what made you think you would start now? DCB/LAL was also unable to construct an argument that could disprove any of my factually correct statements of Rose's superiority over Westbrook.


What point did you make? Westbrook averages more assists and rebounds... you literally just shot down your entire arguement right there.

You claim Rose is a #1 option, while Westbrook is a #2. That is correct. But, shouldn't a #1 option have A LOT more oppurtunities to rack up assists? Being the #1 option (and the PG for that matter), Rose has the ball in his hands EVERY single possession. Am I wrong? Therefore, more oppurtunities to pass and set up teammates.

Another point: Rose is the #1 option and you claim teams know this, therefore they focus on him when playing Chicago; correct? Well, putting it that way, Rose should demand double teams being Chicago's #1 option, leading to open players and cutters. On the contrary, if he isn't double teamed regularaly, doesn't that just prove to us that he isn't much of a threat so teams don't feel the need to double him. I mean, lets look at it this way. You specifically said, Rose has terrible shooters and a bad offense to play with. If this is true, then teams shouldn't be afraid to double him.

So any way you look at it, double teamed or not, Rose should be averaging more assists than Westbrook.

Now, I'd love to hear your excuses for this one.

Actually, the point I was making about rebounds and assists were that you'd rather have a PG with 10 assists and 3 rebounds than 3 assists and 10 rebounds. Why? Because rebounds are not as important of a statistical measure of a PG's ability. However, DCB/LAL did not understand this.

Just because Rose is a #1 option and Westbrook is a #2 option doesn't mean Westbrook gets less opportunities to pass the ball as a PG. Westbrook has the ball in his hands basically as much as Rose. Just because the plays are designed to get the ball to his #1 scoring option doesn't mean the ball doesn't go through him. Rose, however, as a #1 option has these plays created for him rather than allowing them to create for someone else with the scoring potential of Durant. So yes, once again, you were wrong.

Next point, if you've watched Derrick Rose at all, you know opponents double team him more than most other PGs in the league (much more than Westbrook) because of his dangerous scoring ability, which Westbrook must therefore lack. But you obviously don't know too much about basketball if you think double-teams mean automatic assists. When he gets doubled and trapped outside the 3 point line (since it is almost always on a pick and roll with a big man) the man that is left open is a big man, most often Noah, just inside the 3 pt line. Not a shot that Noah should be taking and because of this extra passes need to be made in order to get a good open look.

But I will ask you one last time to answer a question. Both you and DCB/LAL seem to avoid it everytime I ask it.

Would having Durant on your team hurt or not effect at all the number of assists a PG gets? Or would having one of the league's top 5 scorers help a PG's assist numbers? If you once again show an inability to answer this question, you are basically admitting that Rose is indeed the better PG as you would once again have no response that could be twisted to make it seem as if Westbrook is better.

DCB/LAL
01-08-2010, 11:48 AM
You've yet to disprove me once, so what made you think you would start now? DCB/LAL was also unable to construct an argument that could disprove any of my factually correct statements of Rose's superiority over Westbrook.



Actually, the point I was making about rebounds and assists were that you'd rather have a PG with 10 assists and 3 rebounds than 3 assists and 10 rebounds. Why? Because rebounds are not as important of a statistical measure of a PG's ability. However, DCB/LAL did not understand this.

Just because Rose is a #1 option and Westbrook is a #2 option doesn't mean Westbrook gets less opportunities to pass the ball as a PG. Westbrook has the ball in his hands basically as much as Rose. Just because the plays are designed to get the ball to his #1 scoring option doesn't mean the ball doesn't go through him. Rose, however, as a #1 option has these plays created for him rather than allowing them to create for someone else with the scoring potential of Durant. So yes, once again, you were wrong.

Next point, if you've watched Derrick Rose at all, you know opponents double team him more than most other PGs in the league (much more than Westbrook) because of his dangerous scoring ability, which Westbrook must therefore lack. But you obviously don't know too much about basketball if you think double-teams mean automatic assists. When he gets doubled and trapped outside the 3 point line (since it is almost always on a pick and roll with a big man) the man that is left open is a big man, most often Noah, just inside the 3 pt line. Not a shot that Noah should be taking and because of this extra passes need to be made in order to get a good open look.

But I will ask you one last time to answer a question. Both you and DCB/LAL seem to avoid it everytime I ask it.

Would having Durant on your team hurt or not effect at all the number of assists a PG gets? Or would having one of the league's top 5 scorers help a PG's assist numbers? If you once again show an inability to answer this question, you are basically admitting that Rose is indeed the better PG as you would once again have no response that could be twisted to make it seem as if Westbrook is better.

Ok so I just got done reading everything you just said and NOTHING you've said Proves that Rose is Better than Westbrook. Throw out stats that prove your case or wins THROW ANYTHING OUT THERE that'll help your case. Theres nothing.

Numbers are about even.

Wins Westbrooks team has more DESPITE playing in the WEST and DESPITE missing the playoffs last year unlike your Bulls who FYI were a .500 team last year and made the playoffs and according to many Bulls fans were a good team considering they played a hell of a series against the Celtics. Yet you sit up there and say WESTBROOK HAS THE BETTER TEAM?

Please tell me what makes Rose better? Cause you've failed to do that to this point. And no I dont want numbers from the last 15 games.

Cubs Win
01-08-2010, 01:12 PM
Numbers are about even.


When you include when Rose was playing injured, yes. Now what does that tell you. An injured Rose is comparable to a healthy Westbrook apparently.



Please tell me what makes Rose better? Cause you've failed to do that to this point. And no I dont want numbers from the last 15 games.

Why not? That's when both players were healthy. You don't want to compare the two players when they were both playing at 100%?

Here's how you know Rose is better(even though I've already proved it many times):

If for some reason (which they would never do) the Bulls offered to trade Rose to OKC straight up for Westbrook the Thunder would accept without hesitation. But luckily no one in the Bulls front office is stupid enough to offer that trade.

DCB/LAL
01-08-2010, 01:19 PM
When you include when Rose was playing injured, yes. Now what does that tell you. An injured Rose is comparable to a healthy Westbrook apparently.






Why not? That's when both players were healthy. You don't want to compare the two players when they were both playing at 100%?



Here's how you know Rose is better(even though I've already proved it many times):

If for some reason (which they would never do) the Bulls offered to trade Rose to OKC straight up for Westbrook the Thunder would accept without hesitation. But luckily no one in the Bulls front office is stupid enough to offer that trade.

Dude all I hear is excuses from Chicago fans I even hear it in the NFL forum "if Forte wasn't hurt" or "if Deng wasn't hurt" and of course "if Rose wasn't hurt" stop with the excuses. Kobe plays hurt every game and STILL puts up his numbers and some people consider Lebron better! Does it matter that Kobe is hurt? NO! Nobody even argues that.

Stop making excuses he's played Basketball his WHOLE LIFE he's a PRO for a reason its his job to adjust especially if he is healthy enough to play.

Cubs Win
01-08-2010, 02:04 PM
Dude all I hear is excuses from Chicago fans I even hear it in the NFL forum "if Forte wasn't hurt" or "if Deng wasn't hurt" and of course "if Rose wasn't hurt" stop with the excuses. Kobe plays hurt every game and STILL puts up his numbers and some people consider Lebron better! Does it matter that Kobe is hurt? NO! Nobody even argues that.

Stop making excuses he's played Basketball his WHOLE LIFE he's a PRO for a reason its his job to adjust especially if he is healthy enough to play.

Still doesn't matter. The question I'm asking is: Is it more fair to compare a player at 80% vs. a player at 100% or when both players are at 100%?

Different injuries have different effects on different players. When you take Derrick Rose, the most explosive PG in the league, and hurt is ankle which slows him down, obviously that will effect his level of play. Apparently not to the level that he is worse than Westbrook, but rather a non-100% Rose = 100% Westbrook.

The fact that you can't understand this is mind-boggling to me.

DCB/LAL
01-08-2010, 02:11 PM
Still doesn't matter. The question I'm asking is: Is it more fair to compare a player at 80% vs. a player at 100% or when both players are at 100%?
Different injuries have different effects on different players. When you take Derrick Rose, the most explosive PG in the league, and hurt is ankle which slows him down, obviously that will effect his level of play. Apparently not to the level that he is worse than Westbrook, but rather a non-100% Rose = 100% Westbrook.


The fact that you can't understand this is mind-boggling to me.

Oh im sorry I didn't Know Rose was Hurt last year as well cause looking at their STATS they were very SIMILAR LAST YEAR AS WELL!


But im sure that was because Rose was Hurt right? :rolleyes:

Cubs Win
01-08-2010, 02:26 PM
The difference: Rose is one of the hardest workers in the NBA and is now clearly better than Westbrook.

It's kina sad you keep going to the past and to blogs to try and make your point. We are comparing the two players right now. Not last year, not when they were in college. :facepalm:

DCB/LAL
01-08-2010, 02:38 PM
The difference: Rose is one of the hardest workers in the NBA and is now clearly better than Westbrook.

It's kina sad you keep going to the past and to blogs to try and make your point. We are comparing the two players right now. Not last year, not when they were in college. :facepalm:

And RIGHT NOW Westbrook and Rose are on the SAME LEVEL I dont give a damn about Rose potential and what he can be.

Like you said were comparing them RIGHT NOW and RIGHT NOW they have VERY SIMILAR STATS no denying that. Thank you for proving my case!

Enough said im out.

Cubs Win
01-08-2010, 02:48 PM
Good cause you still never proved anything, so I win. :D

Rose > Westbrook

End of story.

Baller1
01-08-2010, 08:19 PM
The difference: Rose is one of the hardest workers in the NBA and is now clearly better than Westbrook.

It's kina sad you keep going to the past and to blogs to try and make your point. We are comparing the two players right now. Not last year, not when they were in college. :facepalm:

By making that statement, I assume you know all about both players' work out habits. So please, fill me in a little on Westbrook's work ethic... I already know it by the way, so don't try to make **** up.

And don't go look it up now, anyone can read.

Cubs Win
01-09-2010, 12:34 AM
By making that statement, I assume you know all about both players' work out habits. So please, fill me in a little on Westbrook's work ethic... I already know it by the way, so don't try to make **** up.

And don't go look it up now, anyone can read.

Can you tell me where I said anything about Westbrook's work ethic? I said that Derrick Rose was one of the hardest workers in the NBA.

What does that say about Westbrook's work ethic?

Don't put ****in' words in my mouth just because your losing an argument. Instead of spending time losing a debate over this topic you could have been working on your Hooked on Phonics program so you don't put words in people's mouths.