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View Full Version : Why did the Yao and Tmac duo not have much success?



JordansBulls
12-31-2009, 12:51 AM
I'm sure every Rockets fan had high hopes for the duo. They began to play together in the 2004-2005 and have played 5 years together. However, they never had the success that many hoped for. Injury after injury hindered them. 2007 was the only time they played where in the playoffs they could have done some damage and Houston lost in game 7 at home with HCA.


With there time together in Houston, how do you describe the Yao and T-mac duo? Why could this duo not succeed?




Now that it appears over, what are your thoughts on the T-Mac/Yao era in Houston? Yao is to be out for the entire 2009-2010 season while McGrady's tenure seems to be over in Houston. So, who do you think was the better player for those 5 seasons they were together and what do you think of what they accomplished all things considered?

http://blog.banjig.net/files/user_uploads/137225/tracy-mcgrady-and-yao-ming-photograph-c12183239_d366dda5.jpg

They started off being hyped as the next Shaq/Kobe duo. T-Mac was one of the best athletes in the NBA at 25 and coming off of back to back scoring titles and some of the greatest statistical seasons in NBA history. Yao meanwhile had turned around the Rockets almost instantly, had showed no fear playing against Shaq and he was just 24 so the duo looked as promising as any in the NBA.

Tracy McGrady(last 5 seasons)
Regular Season- 23.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.3 spg, 42.1 FG%, 73.7 FT%, 37.3 mpg 297 games
Playoffs- 27.7 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.3 spg, 42.6 FG%, 72.7 FT%, 41.4 mpg, 20 games

Yao Ming(last 5 seasons)
Regular Season- 21.0 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 1.9 bpg, 53.0 FG%, 84.1 FT%, 33.6 mpg, 317 games
Playoffs- 20.9 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 1.5 bpg, 53.4 FG%, 84.0 FT%, 34.9 mpg, 23 games

Houston won at least 50 games and made the playoffs 4 out of the 5 seasons T-Mac and Yao were together and they had a 22 game winning streak which is the second longest in NBA history(the last 10 games were won without Yao). But they only made it out of the first round once and that was without T-Mac and losing Yao after game 3 of the semifinals killed any hope of a championship.

They had 2 chances in the playoffs with both T-Mac and Yao, but they blew 2-0 leads each time. Worse was in 2005 when they took the first 2 games at Dallas, but lost the series. However in that series there was a lot of controversy with the refs. T-Mac did have video game numbers in the series averaging 31, 7 and 7 on 46% shooting while Yao averaging 21 per game on 66% shooting. Yao also had three 30 point games, but it was truly a 2 man show for Houston as nobody else gave the Rockets consistent production.

Then in 2007 they really blew their chance because Yao and T-Mac were both 25 ppg scorers by this point and they had homecourt advantage, but blew another 2-0 lead. By this time they had atleast added solid role players like Shane Battier and Rafer Alston, but Yao and T-Mac played poorly despite averaging their season numebrs. Yao shot just 44% and T-Mac shot 39%. Unlike the 2005 series Houston did have a 3-2 lead too.

It's a shame that injuries prevented them from reaching their potential because Houston was still a good team. T-Mac in 2005 was still possibly the most exciting player in the league. He had the 13 in 33 seconds game, the duel with Dirk, the dunk on Shawn Bradley ect. and just a damn good season overall. McGrady did have three top 8 MVP finishes with Houston as well. Yao on the otherhand at his best was even more dominant when healthy, but that was very rare.

So who was the better player for those 5 years and what are your thoughts on that era?

Mavrix
12-31-2009, 01:02 AM
Bc Yao is soft and T-Mac doesn't know how to turn it up a notch in the playoffs.

Plus the fact that neither could stay healthy around the same time.

jimbobjarree
12-31-2009, 01:03 AM
because the jazz hapened

B.JenningsMVP
12-31-2009, 01:06 AM
because the jazz hapened

hahaha

blastmasta26
12-31-2009, 01:25 AM
I'm sure every Rockets fan had high hopes for the duo. They began to play together in the 2004-2005 and have played 5 years together. However, they never had the success that many hoped for. Injury after injury hindered them. 2007 was the only time they played where in the playoffs they could have done some damage and Houston lost in game 7 at home with HCA.


With there time together in Houston, how do you describe the Yao and T-mac duo? Why could this duo not succeed?

I think that's the main reason. Maybe with a couple full seasons together, T-Mac could've learned how to adjust in the playoffs with Yao.

Kakaroach
12-31-2009, 01:26 AM
T-Mac handles the ball too much, their both injury-prone, and Yao didn't really develop into the elite center he is now until his 3rd of 4th year in the league. Sad, I remember when they first got those 2 Houston was going crazy and they expected championships.

IDB Josh M
12-31-2009, 01:31 AM
by all estimations, Tmac and Yao should have had half the success of Kobe and Shaq. At the very least, Tmac and Yao should have gotten out of the first round and made it to at least the NBA finals once. But they did not. Injuries and others got to them.

SA5195
12-31-2009, 01:32 AM
Injuries.

BradyIsTheMan12
12-31-2009, 01:33 AM
Injuries doomed them, Yao was better when healthy though

kblo247
12-31-2009, 01:44 AM
by all estimations, Tmac and Yao should have had half the success of Kobe and Shaq. At the very least, Tmac and Yao should have gotten out of the first round and made it to at least the NBA finals once. But they did not. Injuries and others got to them.

By whose estimations?

Tracy may have had more of the scoring touch and athleticism Kobe had but the will, work ethic, and defense were never there.

Yao may have had more size but the dominance, brute strength, agility, and downright disrespect Shaq had to humiliate his opponents was never there.

They were never as good as Kobe and Shaq not because of physical talent but because they lacked the mindset that those 2 had to step on peoples throats no matter what their differences were.

They simply lacked the ability to go for the kill that Shaq/Kobe had pre-Phil which is very sad and they never got out the first round despite their rosters or series leads.

--
Now, as for who was better I'll say Tracy whenever the postseason came around

blastmasta26
12-31-2009, 01:44 AM
I find it odd how in both of T-Mac's last two teams, the Magic and the Rockets, the best player other than him had injury problems. Grant Hill in Orlando and Yao Ming in Houston.

_KB24_
12-31-2009, 01:48 AM
In their 5 years together, they played together with 2 ankles, 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 hands, and 2 heads. Need any further detail?

Raph12
12-31-2009, 01:50 AM
Tmac is overrated and neither stayed healthy long enough.

KG2TB
12-31-2009, 01:51 AM
Injuries, plain and simple

kblo247
12-31-2009, 01:54 AM
Tmac is overrated and neither stayed healthy long enough.

Yao wasn't exactly any better

Chronz
12-31-2009, 02:02 AM
Because the team never got the role players in place to advance until Macs prime ran dry and Yao was either developing or hurting.


Tmac is overrated and neither stayed healthy long enough.

Hes actually underrated, people still dont know how good the guy was.

Ty Fast
12-31-2009, 02:08 AM
because the jazz hapened

well put

Trevor Ariza
12-31-2009, 02:17 AM
Bc Yao is soft and T-Mac doesn't know how to turn it up a notch in the playoffs.

Plus the fact that neither could stay healthy around the same time.

Look at Tracys playoff stats.

Pwned.

ChiSox219
12-31-2009, 02:21 AM
Because the team never got the role players in place to advance until Macs prime ran dry and Yao was either developing or hurting.



Hes actually underrated, people still dont know how good the guy was.

I think he gets enough credit from fans, look at all-star voting. To me, he is Lebron Lite, Great offensive player who could score at will but also set up his teammates. However, his defense was never particularly good, shooting .436/.339/.749 doesn't exactly look great, and for his career didn't get to the line as much as other stars (though 02-03 was exceptional).

Then there's that playoff thing, but I don't put much stock in that.

RaptorsFanatic
12-31-2009, 02:36 AM
Injury fail.

Failblog.......DOT ORG!

RocketsRule
12-31-2009, 03:02 AM
Like many said, injuries were the main problem. When one of them was healthy, it seemed like the other was injured.

Other factors such as not a great supporting cast and playing the Jazz three years in a row (they were a TERRIBLE match-up for us) also played a great role.

Chronz
12-31-2009, 03:08 AM
I think he gets enough credit from fans, look at all-star voting. To me, he is Lebron Lite, Great offensive player who could score at will but also set up his teammates. However, his defense was never particularly good, shooting .436/.339/.749 doesn't exactly look great, and for his career didn't get to the line as much as other stars (though 02-03 was exceptional).

Then there's that playoff thing, but I don't put much stock in that.
Im not buying the All-Star game as a credible source ever since Yao entered the league. But Ill admit I only said that to prove the all around dumbness behind the expression. Hes been both overrated and underrated throughout his career so how do you average that out? The fact that people cling to the 1st round thing is proof enough that hes underrated historically. People dont know just how great those first round losses were, well most of them, not all.

His defense follows the same suit, his regular season drive with regards to his defense was always in question during his Orlando career only taking it upon himself to try harder against certain matchups, but he always stepped it up come playoff time. Im talking total lockdown jobs that alter the games momentum. His Houston career aside from his first year totally diminishes his career. And while he was robbed of his prime to circumstances totally beyond his control he still maintained an ALL-League level of play in his decline. That alone says alot, Tmac may have been injury prone but he basically dominated the game at a historically elite level for 3 years, arguably 4. And spent the other half of his career performing at an enhanced AI level, yet AI will probably go down as the greater player by the masses.

HuRRiCaNeS324
12-31-2009, 03:14 AM
I think the answer is pretty obvious...

OaklandsFinest
12-31-2009, 03:31 AM
Yao is easily one of the most overrated players ever. T Mac's numbers increase into post season play where as Yao's decrease. Yao a 7'6 man was blocked by a man almost 2 feet shorter then him and people make it seem like he's a great player. He is not that. Leave him in Orlando with Dwight and they win 2 rings

NYtilIdie
12-31-2009, 03:35 AM
Bc Yao is soft and T-Mac doesn't know how to turn it up a notch in the playoffs.

Plus the fact that neither could stay healthy around the same time.

Doesn't know how to turn it up a notch? Dude averages 27 ppg in the playoffs thats one of the highest in the league.

His teammates were either hurt or never showed up.

Injuries were the big factor in their failure though

JordansBulls
12-31-2009, 09:28 AM
Because the team never got the role players in place to advance until Macs prime ran dry and Yao was either developing or hurting.



Hes actually underrated, people still dont know how good the guy was.

In 2007 I thought they were good enough to win it all.

$ NyC $
12-31-2009, 11:15 AM
Feel bad 4 em. T-Mac was the "ish" back in the day. An amazing player and great scorer. Sucks they could never put it all together.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2009, 12:37 PM
it seemed like they never clicked together while in their primes. Meaning, when one was killing it, the other was either hurt, or too young, or past their prime. Just bad timing

brandt
12-31-2009, 12:52 PM
I'm sure every Rockets fan had high hopes for the duo. They began to play together in the 2004-2005 and have played 5 years together. However, they never had the success that many hoped for. Injury after injury hindered them. 2007 was the only time they played where in the playoffs they could have done some damage and Houston lost in game 7 at home with HCA.


With there time together in Houston, how do you describe the Yao and T-mac duo? Why could this duo not succeed?

You just answered your own question. They were never on the court together due to injuries.

JasonJohnHorn
12-31-2009, 01:00 PM
Yao is a solid player, but he's not a dominant center. He's a 20/10 player but he's not a great passing center, he can't kick it out of the double team the way shaq could, the way Duncan and Garnett do, nor does he have the smooth foot work or dominant interior defence that Hakeem had. And considering he is 7'4, or 7'6, his rebounding numbers are not that impressive. Yao is certainly no bust like Kwambe Brown, or like Oden has been so far (though Oden still shows potential), but he also isn't the dominant force that the entire league was hoping he would be.

T-Mac has always been the type of player that is concerned with his personal success and his numbers. I wouldn't say he's a "ball hog", because he does move the ball well, but he wants to be the one with the ball and setting up plays and while his numbers are solid, he reminds me of Dominique Wilkens, not in terms of his game, but in terms of his status in the league. He's a high scorer who puts up great numbers on teams that can't make a playoff push.

But the biggest issue has been injuries. T-Mac doesn't under-perform in the playoffs the way he has been reported to, he just misses the playoffs with injury, or Yao misses the playoffs, and until last season they didn't have a great supporting cast.

I know people may laugh at this, but moving Francis was bad. I watched Houston against L.A. in the playoffs, and nobody has been able to run the pick-and-roll with Yao the way Francis did.

Really though, its just a matter of injuries and lack of chemistry.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
12-31-2009, 01:03 PM
injuries...

JordansBulls
12-31-2009, 01:27 PM
Let me ask you, which year would the Rockets had won a title had both Yao and Tmac been healthy?

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009

vash9
12-31-2009, 01:45 PM
Injuries.

I wouldn't say they're both overrated, but great players.

bigsams50
12-31-2009, 01:50 PM
It's because they took turns getting injured

Romo2Bryant
12-31-2009, 01:54 PM
did someone said INJURYYYYY

JordansBulls
01-01-2010, 03:24 PM
It's because they took turns getting injured

Yeah only in 2008 was when one of them didn't play in the playoffs when they should have won the series.

Dee_Edge
01-01-2010, 04:20 PM
2008 was their (Yao & T-Mac Duo) best chance...T-Mac & Yao knew it too.

Chronz
01-01-2010, 05:13 PM
Yao is easily one of the most overrated players ever. T Mac's numbers increase into post season play where as Yao's decrease. Yao a 7'6 man was blocked by a man almost 2 feet shorter then him and people make it seem like he's a great player. He is not that. Leave him in Orlando with Dwight and they win 2 rings

Yaos #'s werent the problem, it was his defense (something that was a major strength in every season) Anytime you turn a driving force into a liability it changes the odds of the series. Offensively he was always great. Rebounding he was inconsistent and cost his team in deciding games. But Tmac sucked in the games where the team couldve turned a commanding advantage in the series into a 3-0 KO vs Mavs or atleast 3-1 vs Jazz. But he totally sucked in those games.


In 2007 I thought they were good enough to win it all.
I felt that way about 2008 had Yao stayed healthy, with Scolandry and Tmac not that far removed from his last great season. If Bonzi would have panned out, 2007 gets alot stronger.

PS 2005 was underrated, once the entire team was in place they were clicking, then Juwan went down and his backup had been traded, Rockets were overwhelmed and still did well enough.

Chronz
01-01-2010, 05:20 PM
Yao is a solid player, but he's not a dominant center. He's a 20/10 player but he's not a great passing center, he can't kick it out of the double team the way shaq could, the way Duncan and Garnett do, nor does he have the smooth foot work or dominant interior defence that Hakeem had. And considering he is 7'4, or 7'6, his rebounding numbers are not that impressive. Yao is certainly no bust like Kwambe Brown, or like Oden has been so far (though Oden still shows potential), but he also isn't the dominant force that the entire league was hoping he would be.
Hes the best interior defender of all time bro, he does have problems passing but hes not bad, his foot work is great for his size and lack of speed, and you trying to correlate rebounding with his height is novice bro, show me players of that size to ever rebound well outside their area. Because they cant cover ground they dont get the loose rebounds that 6"9 or some mobile 6"11 player gets.


T-Mac has always been the type of player that is concerned with his personal success and his numbers. I wouldn't say he's a "ball hog", because he does move the ball well, but he wants to be the one with the ball and setting up plays and while his numbers are solid, he reminds me of Dominique Wilkens, not in terms of his game, but in terms of his status in the league. He's a high scorer who puts up great numbers on teams that can't make a playoff push.

Fair assessment of a latter day Rocket


I know people may laugh at this, but moving Francis was bad. I watched Houston against L.A. in the playoffs, and nobody has been able to run the pick-and-roll with Yao the way Francis did.

JVG disagrees with you and hes coached both of them. Nobody ran the PnR for the betterment of the TEAM than Tmac did for the Rox.

JDizzle
01-01-2010, 05:49 PM
injuries

smith&wesson
01-01-2010, 06:09 PM
well thats easy they didnt have much sucess because you simply can not win sitting on the bench. and i think thats what those two players do best.

Verbal Christ
01-01-2010, 07:08 PM
apart from the obvious citing of injury, the front office should have capitolized on a recently joined duo of mac and yao with van gundy and surrounded them with players who were barely a few notches above rec league. it was kinda sad at times when teams were practically just counting down before they sent two and 3 at mac or yao only to have guys like sura,wesley,swift or any plethora of so-called 'role' players miss wide open shots and layups. unfortunately morey wasnt around in the early years of the pairing. i still get a kick out of all the analysts in here who dont watch what yao does regularly, the abuse he takes on the block, the effort he gives every night, that you want to somehow corrolate size with better numbers, some of you even said he's a '20/10 guy, but isnt dominant' talk about the mother of all contradictions! LOL

i think with more help, better scouting,drafting; smarter strategy by coaches as far as playing time, (van gundy used to run mac ragged) but again with crap on the bench what can you do right? that this team could have contested for rings, it was a shame, could have been something special.

MJ-BULLS
01-01-2010, 07:14 PM
too many injuries,
and cause yao is soft and t mac hasn't played as great in the playoffs

JordansBulls
01-01-2010, 07:45 PM
Yaos #'s werent the problem, it was his defense (something that was a major strength in every season) Anytime you turn a driving force into a liability it changes the odds of the series. Offensively he was always great. Rebounding he was inconsistent and cost his team in deciding games. But Tmac sucked in the games where the team couldve turned a commanding advantage in the series into a 3-0 KO vs Mavs or atleast 3-1 vs Jazz. But he totally sucked in those games.


I felt that way about 2008 had Yao stayed healthy, with Scolandry and Tmac not that far removed from his last great season. If Bonzi would have panned out, 2007 gets alot stronger.

PS 2005 was underrated, once the entire team was in place they were clicking, then Juwan went down and his backup had been traded, Rockets were overwhelmed and still did well enough.

Yeah in 2007 they needed to play Bonzi to win it all. Not sure why they didn't. In 2008 they needed Francis to play to win it all.

RaptorizedKevin
01-02-2010, 05:50 AM
Bc Yao is soft and T-Mac doesn't know how to turn it up a notch in the playoffs.

Plus the fact that neither could stay healthy around the same time.

13 pts in 35 seconds.. isnt turning it up a notch?

barreleffact
01-02-2010, 06:07 AM
Yao is easily one of the most overrated players ever. T Mac's numbers increase into post season play where as Yao's decrease. Yao a 7'6 man was blocked by a man almost 2 feet shorter then him and people make it seem like he's a great player. He is not that. Leave him in Orlando with Dwight and they win 2 rings

how do you figure? you think they beat
the 05 spurs
the 06 heat?
the 07 spurs
08 celts
or 09 Lake show?

i dont see where they ever WIN a title. 06 would be the best bet. they def get out of the first round tho

BkOriginalOne
01-02-2010, 06:42 AM
Injuries.
IF you took Tmac and Yao when they were both playing well a few years back
AND the team still has Brooks, Scola, Lanry, Ariza, Lowry, Battier - then they'd be sick.

JordansBulls
01-04-2010, 05:58 PM
Injuries.
IF you took Tmac and Yao when they were both playing well a few years back
AND the team still has Brooks, Scola, Lanry, Ariza, Lowry, Battier - then they'd be sick.

Yeah this is it if was 2007 version of both Yao and T-mac.

Tony_Starks
01-04-2010, 07:20 PM
solely because of injuries. I don't think they've had a healthy season together yet, and probably never will!

JordansBulls
01-05-2010, 06:50 PM
Without the injuries, would they had won a title?

$ NyC $
01-05-2010, 07:26 PM
Injuries.
IF you took Tmac and Yao when they were both playing well a few years back
AND the team still has Brooks, Scola, Lanry, Ariza, Lowry, Battier - then they'd be sick.

This. They needed a supporting cast like these guys. If Yao nd T-Mac were healthy i think they could have made some noise.

tr3ymill3r
01-05-2010, 08:04 PM
one word...injuries

FaM0us Skins
01-05-2010, 08:06 PM
they both are injury prone

MiamiHeat
01-05-2010, 08:30 PM
Injuries.

simple as that.

Reyes6
01-05-2010, 08:41 PM
Not to sound crazy, but I thought it was pretty successful. Minus the whole championship challenged and 1st round issues, the team was pretty successful in making the playoffs 4 out of 5 years of them being together and giving good series in the playoffs to the Jazz, Mavs, Blazers, and Lakers. I know Yao and McGrady seemed to rarely be on the court at the same time, but in terms of being a fan of the team they did pretty well in my eyes. Nobody says Malone-Stockton was a faiure because they never won a title in Utah, but I can see they made the finals...

But I do have pretty low expectations considering I am a Mets fan.

JordansBulls
01-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Not to sound crazy, but I thought it was pretty successful. Minus the whole championship challenged and 1st round issues, the team was pretty successful in making the playoffs 4 out of 5 years of them being together and giving good series in the playoffs to the Jazz, Mavs, Blazers, and Lakers. I know Yao and McGrady seemed to rarely be on the court at the same time, but in terms of being a fan of the team they did pretty well in my eyes. Nobody says Malone-Stockton was a faiure because they never won a title in Utah, but I can see they made the finals...

But I do have pretty low expectations considering I am a Mets fan.

Difference between making the finals and never getting out of round 1.