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Damela
12-18-2009, 07:45 PM
What does everybody thinks of Chronz list of flawed NBA cliches.

Here they are.

1. D'Antoni Ball = Inflated Stats = Bad Defense
2. It doesnt matter whether you win by 2 or 20, a W is a W!!!
3. Defense wins championships
4. Kobe suddenly got "it", and won a title

To be continued

I agree with all of them.

Reversed86Curse
12-18-2009, 07:46 PM
I personally think only one is flawed

jimbobjarree
12-18-2009, 07:49 PM
I think another flawed cliche is taking a player out when they get 2 quick fouls in the 1st helps to prolong their minutes

IRUAM #21
12-18-2009, 07:51 PM
I think you should PM him cuz I don't really care.

barreleffact
12-18-2009, 07:51 PM
kobe IMO is the same now as he always was. the only difference is the players around him. he didnt just wake up and change as ppl so desperately want to believe.

defense wins championships ala spurs, detroit, etc.nuff said

a win at the end of the day is a win. in the finals game 7 after the worse basketball execution of the season you still won by one....great game ur still a champion...or do they make trophies with asteriks?

d'antoni ball is up tempo(7 seconds or less) meaning more posessions per game and inflated stats. bad defense is just cuz he sucks in that department.

BlondeBomber41
12-18-2009, 08:01 PM
I think another flawed cliche is taking a player out when they get 2 quick fouls in the 1st helps to prolong their minutes

Nobody thinks it will prolong a players minutes... its all about making sure the player is around at the end of the game if you need him.

smith&wesson
12-18-2009, 08:01 PM
What does everybody thinks of Chronz list of flawed NBA cliches.

Here they are.

1. D'Antoni Ball = Inflated Stats = Bad Defense
2. It doesnt matter whether you win by 2 or 20, a W is a W!!!
3. Defense wins championships
4. Kobe suddenly got "it", and won a title

To be continued

I agree with all of them.

Dantoni ball does inflate stats... prime example chris duhon.

it really doesnt matter how much you win by unless your a fantacy stats guy. a w really is a w. all that matters is how many of them you have. it determins your seating in the playoffs.

I dont think defence alone wins championships, but its definalty a good part of the formula.

kobe always had it. hence the 4 rings. the only time he didnt have "it" was when his suporting cast was lacking. even then he was making the playoffs.

BlondeBomber41
12-18-2009, 08:05 PM
1. Its true... they shoot alot faster than other teams and shooting more leads to inflated stats. I dont see how its even disputable.

2. Depends. If you had a 20 point lead and win by 2 than thats not the same as being in a close game and pulling it out. No coach is gonna be truely happy with a 2 point win if they at one point lead by 20, but any coach will be happy if in a close game his team was able to pull out the victory.

3. Defense does win championships. No question. The teams that couldnt stop anyone ultimately fell while the teams that played great defense move on. Happens every year.

4. Kobe just got better teammates. Nothing miraculously happened.

Gators123
12-18-2009, 08:08 PM
I think you should PM him cuz I don't really care.

You obviously care enough to comment.

Damela
12-18-2009, 08:08 PM
I think you should PM him cuz I don't really care.

u may not care but many others do

we shouldn't be takin shots at eachother we're both heat fans

arkanian215
12-18-2009, 08:09 PM
kobe IMO is the same now as he always was. the only difference is the players around him. he didnt just wake up and change as ppl so desperately want to believe.

defense wins championships ala spurs, detroit, etc.nuff said

a win at the end of the day is a win. in the finals game 7 after the worse basketball execution of the season you still won by one....great game ur still a champion...or do they make trophies with asteriks?

d'antoni ball is up tempo(7 seconds or less) meaning more posessions per game and inflated stats. bad defense is just cuz he sucks in that department.

imo kobe is better now than ever. he's improving his offhand game. ive seen it a couple of times already this season. pretty good touch from 15-18 out but still needs work.

madiaz3
12-18-2009, 08:10 PM
Dantoni ball does inflate stats... prime example chris duhon.


No...you know what I think is the reason his stats rose? How about this:
2007-08: 22 MPG
2008-09: 36.8 MPG

Taking a career bench player and plunging him into the starting lineup produces better stats!? Someone alert the press.

D'Antoni ball =/= inflated stats.

Suns ball (specifically playing with Steve Nash as your PG) however, CAN inflate stats. The Knicks don't play anything like the PHX Suns, they don't have the personnel. (Knicks rank 28/30 in fast break points.) They don't run SSOL. The majority of their offense is in the half-court. It may just be that these players are playing better than they were the year before, an impossible to grasp concept I know.

jimbobjarree
12-18-2009, 08:14 PM
Nobody thinks it will prolong a players minutes... its all about making sure the player is around at the end of the game if you need him.

I guess but still, more often than not it prevents players from playing the minutes they could. Like the other night with Flynn in Utah, got his 5th foul with 4 minutes left and they took him out for 2 minutes...not really worth messing up the teams rhythm for 2 minutes just to keep him in...though to be fair it all worked out in the end

BlondeBomber41
12-18-2009, 08:15 PM
I guess but still, more often than not it prevents players from playing the minutes they could. Like the other night with Flynn in Utah, got his 5th foul with 4 minutes left and they took him out for 2 minutes...not really worth messing up the teams rhythm for 2 minutes just to keep him in...though to be fair it all worked out in the end

Yeah I agree with you in that situation its stupid to take the player out, but if its two quick fouls in the 1st quarter or his 4th foul early in the 3rd quarter its smart to take the player out to preserve him for the end of the game.

iggypop123
12-18-2009, 08:26 PM
defense wins championships. of course it does, but when teams win it when they have good offenses it is ignored, but it still remains there

Raoul Duke
12-18-2009, 08:27 PM
1. D'Antoni Ball = Inflated Stats = Bad Defense- You could argue that his style of play inflates certain things, like rebounds. You can also make some pretty convincing arguments against it.

2. It doesnt matter whether you win by 2 or 20, a W is a W!!!- that is a 100% true statement. Scoreboard is everything.

3. Defense wins championships- I think it's slightly more important than offense, because.. I dunno. It's a toughness thing.

4. Kobe suddenly got "it", and won a title- True statement, if by "it" you mean "Pau Gasol".

theuuord
12-18-2009, 08:34 PM
weren't the magic the #1 defensive team in the NBA last year?

Hawkeye15
12-18-2009, 08:35 PM
1. Its true... they shoot alot faster than other teams and shooting more leads to inflated stats. I dont see how its even disputable.

2. Depends. If you had a 20 point lead and win by 2 than thats not the same as being in a close game and pulling it out. No coach is gonna be truely happy with a 2 point win if they at one point lead by 20, but any coach will be happy if in a close game his team was able to pull out the victory.

3. Defense does win championships. No question. The teams that couldnt stop anyone ultimately fell while the teams that played great defense move on. Happens every year.

4. Kobe just got better teammates. Nothing miraculously happened.


agreed dude

JasonJohnHorn
12-18-2009, 08:36 PM
1. D'Antoni Ball = Inflated Stats = Bad Defense

I don't think there is a coach in the league who doesn't respect and understand the importance of defence. That said sometimes you gotta work with what you got. With the Suns D'Antoni had a great offensive team and some of those players were so good on D, so he played to their stregnths like a great coach should do. Were the stats inflated? Yes and know. Nash's stats indicated what a great playmakers and facilitater he was and weren't inflated. QR's stats were the hgihest of his career, and other guys had the same thing (Bell, Diaw, and Marion). Some players looked a little better than they were, but that was because great players make the players around them better. The seasons those guys played with Nash and D'Antoni, they weren't as good as their stat indicated, and some were bad defenders, but that wasn't D'Antoni's fault.

2. It doesnt matter whether you win by 2 or 20, a W is a W!!!

Well, the Magic lost a couple nail bitters that were close in the finals last year, and guess what: they didn't get a ring. So yeah, a win is a win. But at the same time when you tromp somebody by 20 and let them get back in the game, or when you beat a team by a point that you should have destroyed, it is usually an indication of inconsistent play and room for improvement. So yes, a win is a win, but nobody cares how many points you win by when you win the title, but each game is a test, just because you passed doesn't mean you are going to get an A+.


3. Defense wins championships

YES!!!! It does. You obviously have to be able to score and you have to rebound, and not commit turnovers, but yeah, if a team can't play defense, they won't win titles. The Lakers in the 80's were known for their run-and-gun play, but Kareem was a great defensive center, Michael Cooper was a work hound on defence, and Magic created all kinds of match-up problems for point guards trying to score on him. And those Lakers were trumped by the defensive minded Pistons, who were then trumped by a great defensive Bulls team. Houston had great defenders, the Spurs are great defenders, and the New Boy Boys were great defenders. And Miami is probably the weakest defensive team to win since I don't know when and even they were a decent defensive team. Every dynasty played great defence. Sometimes weak defensive teams can win it, but they dont make dynasties. But no one single aspect of the game wins the game, there are always twenty different things; rebounds, scoring, passing, turnovers, fouls, ect... everything matters and the teams that do all of them well win.

4. Kobe suddenly got "it", and won a title

If "it" means two great centers (Gasol and Bynum), then yeah, but no, Kobe hasn't even gotten "it" yet if you ask me, which is why he still hoists up a disgusting number of shots on his off shooting nights. He's just on a reallly great team with a really great coach. If the Lakers trade Kobe straight up for Joe Johnson or D-Wade, or Paul Pierce, the Lakers would still be as dominant as they are because Jackson is that great and Gasol is that great and guys like Odom Bynum and Artest are that good too!