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View Full Version : What Does Brook Have To Do?



ImNotBiased
12-14-2009, 01:55 AM
There have been countless players who haven't yet/will not receive elite status for merely being on a crappy team. What does Brook Lopez have to do, specifically (don't just say "win ball games"), to be considered top 3 center in the league? Or is he already top 3 in your opinion?

MaHaRaJaH
12-14-2009, 02:02 AM
There have been countless players who haven't yet/will not receive elite status for merely being on a crappy team. What does Brook Lopez have to do, specifically (don't just say "win ball games"), to be considered top 3 center in the league? Or is he already top 3 in your opinion?

Well he's a God in a fantasy standpoint.

ImNotBiased
12-14-2009, 02:07 AM
Well he's a God in a fantasy standpoint.

Agreed. I believe Lopez is statistically the number 1 center in the NBA as of right now. It's just people say "he's on a crappy team so he is there only option." Um... he is one of the most efficient centers in the league, moreso than Duncan even. He shoots 50% FG, 83% FT (at 6+ attempts/game), 2+ blocks, .7 stl, 19.5 ppg (leads NBA), and 9+ reb/game.

I could see why people would hold it against Brook for having numbers like that if he was shooting in the low 40%, getting his own misses and whatnot, but he is not.

MaHaRaJaH
12-14-2009, 02:34 AM
I guess they like to associate him with players like David Lee, would he really be putting up 16/10 had he not been in NYK's situation? I know the guy is pretty talented, but he only put up such numbers when he had the playing time he was given.

albertc86
12-14-2009, 02:49 AM
Duncan has been the only elite player to be considered as such without necessarily having a 'pretty' game. In my opinion, Brook falls under category where he would be get more recognition, but his team is holding him back. He does surprise me with his numbers, though. He does remind me a little of Kaman... I think Kaman would put up great numbers for New Jersey as well... Kaman is another big man that doesn't get the respect he deserves.

madiaz3
12-14-2009, 02:51 AM
Agreed. I believe Lopez is statistically the number 1 center in the NBA as of right now. It's just people say "he's on a crappy team so he is there only option." Um... he is one of the most efficient centers in the league, moreso than Duncan even. He shoots 50% FG, 83% FT (at 6+ attempts/game), 2+ blocks, .7 stl, 19.5 ppg (leads NBA), and 9+ reb/game.

[b]I could see why people would hold it against Brook for having numbers like that if he was shooting in the low 40%, getting his own misses and whatnot, but he is not.

As an overall player he's damn good, but elite? No way, especially not for a big man.

His FG% is good for a guard. Compare his FG% vs. Dwight and Bynum, or Duncan and KG. Even Yao Ming last season. (Amare's even at 56%) They are all considered elite big men and have something in common, they shoot as big men are supposed to, over 50%. In their case, over 55% is a starting point. (and no Brook's not shooting 50% now) Guards can shoot in the lower to mid 40's as long as their EFG% which accounts for threes is ~50%. Shaq in his worst statistical season of all time is shooting 50%. I know 7% doesn't seem like a lot but people would crucify Kobe or Lebron for shooting 42 or 43% on a season, that's Iverson territory...

Speaking of those big men mentioned, have any of them had such a poor season record start as the main man with an all-star along side them among other players? I know you said winning games isn't an answer, but players that are or have been referred to as truly elite have managed to yes, win games.

ImNotBiased
12-14-2009, 03:50 AM
As an overall player he's damn good, but elite? No way, especially not for a big man.

His FG% is good for a guard. Compare his FG% vs. Dwight and Bynum, or Duncan and KG. Even Yao Ming last season. (Amare's even at 56%) They are all considered elite big men and have something in common, they shoot as big men are supposed to, over 50%. In their case, over 55% is a starting point. (and no Brook's not shooting 50% now) Guards can shoot in the lower to mid 40's as long as their EFG% which accounts for threes is ~50%. Shaq in his worst statistical season of all time is shooting 50%. I know 7% doesn't seem like a lot but people would crucify Kobe or Lebron for shooting 42 or 43% on a season, that's Iverson territory...

Speaking of those big men mentioned, have any of them had such a poor season record start as the main man with an all-star along side them among other players? I know you said winning games isn't an answer, but players that are or have been referred to as truly elite have managed to yes, win games.

That's funny you talk about Duncan and Garnett, did you know Lopez's (so far) Career FG% is higher than both of them? Take a look at their game. They are all capable of shooting away from the rim, hence their FG% is around 50. It doesn't mean Dirk Nowitzki is just mediocre and not elite... on the contrary, it's part of Dirk's skillset to not just post up as well as be near perfect from FT line. Lopez is shooting 51% (career) could put the same numbers on ANY team. Kaman is a bad example because last I checked, the Clippers were struggling and Kaman (until now, his team is more talented too) hasn't been performing the way Brooks has this season.

People always say "oh that team sucks so his stats are inflamed" or "oh his team is amazing so his stats are inflamed." Which is it... do they have good stats because the team sucks or rocks... or how about, maybe the player is actually that damn good? :P

madiaz3
12-14-2009, 07:43 AM
That's funny you talk about Duncan and Garnett, did you know Lopez's (so far) Career FG% is higher than both of them? Take a look at their game. They are all capable of shooting away from the rim, hence their FG% is around 50. It doesn't mean Dirk Nowitzki is just mediocre and not elite... on the contrary, it's part of Dirk's skillset to not just post up as well as be near perfect from FT line. Lopez is shooting 51% (career) could put the same numbers on ANY team. Kaman is a bad example because last I checked, the Clippers were struggling and Kaman (until now, his team is more talented too) hasn't been performing the way Brooks has this season.

People always say "oh that team sucks so his stats are inflamed" or "oh his team is amazing so his stats are inflamed." Which is it... do they have good stats because the team sucks or rocks... or how about, maybe the player is actually that damn good? :P

His first season he played with a certain Vince Carter and wasn't exactly the first option (he's taken nearly half the total amount of shots he took all of last season in the first 24 games this season), so the career fg% argument doesn't work too well.

Besides the fact neither of them led their teams to such terrible season starts, one looks past Garnett's slightly below 50% marker because of maybe... repeated seasons of 1.5 steals a game, 2 blocks a game, SIX seasons of ~SIX ASSISTS PER GAME.

You forgot to mention that Dirk shoots threes and Brook doesn't, his true shooting percentage has been between 57 and 60% the past four seasons.

Good players on bad teams = inflated ppg, conversely higher efficiency on better teams: See Pau Gasol: shot 50% as the main man on a bad team and led them to the playoffs in the West, joined lakers and shot 59 56 and 57 percent respectively.

If you have not seen the trend, no one considered any of these players elite until they had achieved higher levels of team success.

Faneik
12-14-2009, 08:27 AM
Robin Lopez after his brother gets drafted at #10: "Nets got a steal!"

He was 100% correct. I somehow understand the Bulls selecting Rose, hometown hero, and the fanbase wanted him. Bulls' fans probably don't regret the pick.

Imo, 8 other teams are regreting themselves badly. Especially Miami.

clehmun
12-14-2009, 12:26 PM
more flashy plays. sad, but it's true.

b_rad23
12-14-2009, 01:00 PM
Robin Lopez after his brother gets drafted at #10: "Nets got a steal!"

He was 100% correct. I somehow understand the Bulls selecting Rose, hometown hero, and the fanbase wanted him. Bulls' fans probably don't regret the pick.

Imo, 8 other teams are regreting themselves badly. Especially Miami.

Especially MIami?

Have you even seen Beasley play?

How about especially Charlotte?

Dmagic87
12-14-2009, 01:27 PM
Lopez will easily be a top 3 center... he reminds me of a Tim Duncan... I don't get how the Nets are this bad with Lopez and Harris... maybe they are tanking to get... John Wall lol

Faneik
12-14-2009, 01:43 PM
Especially MIami?

Have you even seen Beasley play?

How about especially Charlotte?

Would you still take Beasley over Lopez?

Charlotte missed out too. 8 teams did.

blackjack_119
12-14-2009, 02:34 PM
Lopez needs to be this dominant when the other team needs to prevent him from being this dominant in order to win. When teams are beating you by an average of 11 points/night. There is no desire to lock down any player on the roster. Opposing players could care less if Lopez is racking up stats. As bad as the Nets are, opponents are more concerned with resting and preparing for the next game than locking up Lopez.

masalex1205
12-14-2009, 03:00 PM
yep, Charlotte messed up taking him

It's funny because MJ gets ripped for making bad picks like Kwame Brown but he actually really wanted to pick Lopez, I even heard they told him they were going to take him, but it was Larry Brown's pick and he wanted DJ (even though we already had Felton)

Damn it Larry, Damn it

JabberJaw
12-14-2009, 03:28 PM
ultimately you are judged by your success. Sad, but it's true. Look at Al Jefferson in Minnesota. That guy hardly gets talked about and the guy is an absolute beast. Brook is a really good player, but his stats aren't telling everything. I believe he is a top 10 center, but not in the elite 1-5. The 1-5's are centers that are doing a great job, while having to share the spotlight with their teammates, while doing what it takes to win.
I think that Brook, Jefferson and Lee, should all be considered in the best of the "overlooked guys", but not the best of the best. If they can start putting up these numbers while not getting blown out and playing a lot vs the teams 2nd teamers, then they will surely get recognized. These guys are all awesome players, and have great futures. I would just love to see them on a team that can actually utilize their talents.

rapjuicer06
12-14-2009, 03:32 PM
if lopez was an elite center, they would not have the worst record in basketball.....so that is what he has to do, help his team win games

jkiddvc20
12-14-2009, 04:41 PM
Besides Harris who does Lopez have on his team. Chris Douglas Roberts is the 3rd best player and I love CDR but when he is the third best player on a team than that is not good.

Raoul Duke
12-14-2009, 04:57 PM
This thread is hilarious. You want to know what he has to do, other than win games, to be an elite player in the NBA.

Winning is what seperates the really good from the elite.

clehmun
12-14-2009, 05:03 PM
Besides Harris who does Lopez have on his team. Chris Douglas Roberts is the 3rd best player and I love CDR but when he is the third best player on a team than that is not good.

CDR and courtney lee take turns on being the 3rd best player on their team. but yes i agree with you, they're not going anywhere with those wing options (until they develop more).

but the nets have a great start. they got arguably the two most important positions covered. not many young teams have an all-star calibre PG and C to build around. and they play BOTH end of the floor as well.

jkiddvc20
12-14-2009, 10:22 PM
CDR and courtney lee take turns on being the 3rd best player on their team. but yes i agree with you, they're not going anywhere with those wing options (until they develop more).

but the nets have a great start. they got arguably the two most important positions covered. not many young teams have an all-star calibre PG and C to build around. and they play BOTH end of the floor as well.

One can only hope buddy, one can only hope...

nipo10847
12-14-2009, 10:42 PM
I can see him competing with Dwight Howard neck to neck for the #1 spot from next year. That being said Miami did not make a mistake. Beasely was the right pick. You guys probably dont watch him as much as we do. If he was in a team as the #1 option he would be putting up crazy numbers. He is playing with a superstar which puts him in a different situation than other top young players.

NYKnicks4511
12-14-2009, 10:51 PM
I'd say that Brook needs to do something funky with his hair, it's simply too plain. Look at Robin his brother, date(d?) Michelle Wie!


On a more serious note, I think 2010 via the draft of FA, or both, Brook Lopez will become more of a household name. Simply because the Nets will be winning.

BigEric
12-15-2009, 05:22 AM
I don't see that many better centers. I get to watch him daily, and he's the real deal. Who knows if he'll ever be a superstar, but he's certainly a keeper.

rabueed
12-15-2009, 10:39 AM
you know what, the Nets' young talent is phenomenal. IS anyone catching a trend from young talent lately in the league?

I remember a couple of years ago, Portland was the young talent succeeding in the league and OKC were the young talent that needed developing. Now, OKC is the young talent succeeding and the Nets are the young talent that need a little developing.

Honestly, the Nets are a great team with bad execution. They have great talent in Harris, Lopez, CDR, Lee, and Terrence Williams. However, they cannot for the life of them run their plays accurately enough. Someone posted a thread that showed how bad they are at running the pick and roll (more so rafer alston than anybody else). A few trades here and there, a couple of nice draft picks, and I can see this team in OKC's shoes in a couple of years.

Raoul Duke
12-15-2009, 01:08 PM
The Nets were constructed to be bad so that they could have a better chance of getting the number one pick next summer. That's why I don't blame them for sucking. It was a forgone conclusion.

They have zero veteran leadership and zero depth, and the team was built from the standpoint of "let's get as much really young, really promising talent as we possibly can with no regard to building a well rounded successful basketball team because we don't care about our fans this season we only care about getting Lebron next season and moving to Brooklyn kthnxbye".

Raph12
12-15-2009, 01:34 PM
He needs a trade to a team that's already established (ie. Gasol to LA), then we can see what he can really do on a court.