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Chronz
12-12-2009, 04:10 PM
If it were an award who would you give it to?


Ben Wallace - People talk about Detroit revitalizing his Defense but hes actually posting the highest offensive rebounding #'s of his career. Absurdly high, overall hes posting his highest PER in 4 years. I actually felt he had a bounce back season last year for Cleveland before he broke his leg, but this is going to awhole new level of bounceback.

Baron Davis - Last year was a disaster for Baron, shows up to camp out of shape, feuds with his negligent coach, and puts up the most hideous shooting% youve seen since the 50's. Luckily for him, hes no stranger to bouncing back. The last time he had a horribly down year he followed that up with the best year of his career. This year hasnt been as demonstrative but hes back and playing at an AS level again.

Earl Boykins - No greater bounce back than going from out the league to your teams MVP is there? Would be the favorite if not for him joining the season late.

Steve Nash - Bringing back the MVP talk, highest FT% & AST% of his career, posting the highest offensive rating of his career and doing so in as many possessions as hes ever accounted for.


Jason Richardson - The other Sun on the list, you always love it when a player is able to post a PER close to his career norm, yet in a drastically different fashion ie less chucking. JR was going threw this transformation last year and while he played admirably in a reduced role he was far from playing to his full potential. 1 year later and in a faster system and hes played as well as he ever has.

Jermaine Oneal - yea him

asandhu23
12-12-2009, 04:21 PM
Monta Ellis: Mopedgate and then return from Mopedgate last year. everyone thought he was done. he was not the same guy anymore. And then he just goes off on teams this year, cracks the top scorers of the season rankings and brings the all star team talks while being the team leader and league leader in turnovers.

Raoul Duke
12-12-2009, 04:22 PM
As a Pistons fan I'd have to cast my vote for Big Ben. Not only has he been putting up great numbers, he's been setting the tone for our entire team defensively.

BkOriginalOne
12-12-2009, 04:31 PM
Iverson will have the award by season's end.
Last night was his first 20 point game in over a year, and you know he wants more.

yuns554
12-12-2009, 04:34 PM
If it were an award who would you give it to?


Ben Wallace - People talk about Detroit revitalizing his Defense but hes actually posting the highest offensive rebounding #'s of his career. Absurdly high, overall hes posting his highest PER in 4 years. I actually felt he had a bounce back season last year for Cleveland before he broke his leg, but this is going to awhole new level of bounceback.

Baron Davis - Last year was a disaster for Baron, shows up to camp out of shape, feuds with his negligent coach, and puts up the most hideous shooting% youve seen since the 50's. Luckily for him, hes no stranger to bouncing back. The last time he had a horribly down year he followed that up with the best year of his career. This year hasnt been as demonstrative but hes back and playing at an AS level again.

Earl Boykins - No greater bounce back than going from out the league to your teams MVP is there? Would be the favorite if not for him joining the season late.

Steve Nash - Bringing back the MVP talk, highest FT% & AST% of his career, posting the highest offensive rating of his career and doing so in as many possessions as hes ever accounted for.


Jason Richardson - The other Sun on the list, you always love it when a player is able to post a PER close to his career norm, yet in a drastically different fashion ie less chucking. JR was going threw this transformation last year and while he played admirably in a reduced role he was far from playing to his full potential. 1 year later and in a faster system and hes played as well as he ever has.

Jermaine Oneal - yea him

Jrich is way too inconsistent

My vote is for Luol Deng, he has played really well this year.

SA5195
12-12-2009, 04:39 PM
Nash, didn't expect of him to play like the way he's playing so far.

Kakaroach
12-12-2009, 04:46 PM
I think Carlos Boozer would get some consideration for this if it was an actual award. I'd give it to Big Ben though.

Raph12
12-12-2009, 04:47 PM
Why is Jason Williams not on your list Chronz?

He came back from retirement and put up stellar numbers, he would get my vote over all of the others on this list.

Nash and Big Ben would be runner-ups.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-12-2009, 04:54 PM
Iverson will have the award by season's end.
Last night was his first 20 point game in over a year, and you know he wants more.

Shooting at 35% is good?:confused:

Shady66
12-12-2009, 05:04 PM
Pretty good list Chronz
My number one would def be ben wallace though.

Pauleboman
12-12-2009, 05:09 PM
Nash&Boozer are playing way better than I thought!Saturday Nights are great!

Gators123
12-12-2009, 05:15 PM
Ben Wallace, Pistons signed him so he could be a mentor for our other bigs, and basically get zero playing time. Instead he is the Starter and doing very well. As Raoul said, he sets the tone defensively for the team every night.

Steve Nash is also doing better then I expected.

JasonJohnHorn
12-12-2009, 05:16 PM
Most of the guys on the list are deserving. Boykins I wouldn't say is a come back really though, he just went to Europe last year because he got better offers over there, but he did get offers for the veteran minimum last year.

Only guys I wouldn't put on the list is JRich, because he seems to be playing the same type of game that he has played, just maybe he's getting more touches with Shaq not being around, and I wouldn't put Jerome O'Neal on the list because he's just too inconsistent. one night he plays like an all star and posts 22 points and a dozen boards, then the next night he'll post 8 points on horrible shooting and only grab 5 boards.

Chronz
12-12-2009, 05:24 PM
Jrich is way too inconsistent

My vote is for Luol Deng, he has played really well this year.

Deng is another guy, but I didnt like to award a young guy who should be playing to his potential in the first place. Deng had a great year, dropped off, regained alittle of his luster and is currently back to that level he was all those years back. Its a nice turn of events, but its more meaningful when it comes from a guy defying odds like Ben and the others IMO.


Why is Jason Williams not on your list Chronz?

He came back from retirement and put up stellar numbers, he would get my vote over all of the others on this list.

Nash and Big Ben would be runner-ups.
Good choice

Chronz
12-12-2009, 05:31 PM
Most of the guys on the list are deserving. Boykins I wouldn't say is a come back really though, he just went to Europe last year because he got better offers over there, but he did get offers for the veteran minimum last year.

Only guys I wouldn't put on the list is JRich, because he seems to be playing the same type of game that he has played, just maybe he's getting more touches with Shaq not being around, and I wouldn't put Jerome O'Neal on the list because he's just too inconsistent. one night he plays like an all star and posts 22 points and a dozen boards, then the next night he'll post 8 points on horrible shooting and only grab 5 boards.

Didnt know that about Boykins, its good to have him back is all.

Rich is accounting for the same amount of possessions, hes just scoring WAY more efficiently. And Jermaine having good games is the trick, he used to play bad all the time. Now hes explosive enough to have great games every now and again. That counts for alot

I rarely buy the inconsistent talk, how do you measure consistency vs the rest of the league?

Toenail Clipper
12-12-2009, 05:33 PM
I disagree with Baron Davis, he's still inconsistent.
He always throws dumb three point bricks.
Also, he should lead his team more to get a winning record.
He'll be back in his form when Blake Griffin comes back in January

Chronz
12-12-2009, 05:37 PM
I disagree with Baron Davis, he's still inconsistent.
He always throws dumb three point bricks.
Also, he should lead his team more to get a winning record.
He'll be back in his form when Blake Griffin comes back in January
Inconsistent my ***, hes ALWAYS thrown up 3pt heaves, so hes actually being consistent to his playing style by taking dumb shots.

This is why I hate the inconsistent talk, everybody uses it on every player. If he was so inconsistent he wouldnt be putting up the stats he does. Inconsistency = bad results, and the results we got from Baron were far worse.

If this is inconsistent then Id rather have an inconsistent star than a consistently mediocre player.

boms-4
12-12-2009, 05:39 PM
Walace or Nash

ChiSox219
12-12-2009, 07:21 PM
My vote is for Luol Deng, he has played really well this year.

Same here

montazingmvp
12-12-2009, 08:40 PM
how can you leave monta ellis off this list?

Chronz
12-13-2009, 03:50 AM
how can you leave monta ellis off this list?

Because of a hot streak? Hes really not back to the level he used to be at friend.

theuuord
12-13-2009, 04:04 AM
how can you leave monta ellis off this list?

How can a Comeback Player of the Year be averaging 4 turnovers a game?

theuuord
12-13-2009, 04:09 AM
to me, Wallace and Boykins are the two frontrunners, I don't like putting Nash on this list because he's not really coming back from anything; he had a near great year last year and is having a great one now. He's definitely playing significantly better than last year, but he's not really "coming back" to form as it were. Baron is also in the conversation... I would say J-Will but his playing time is going to significantly decrease when Jameer comes back, so even though he's playing well in his role now it won't last for multiple reasons.

Mavrix
12-13-2009, 04:15 AM
Erick Dampier. The guy is averaging 8.1 ppg 9.6 rpg, and 2.2 bpg...dominant on the defensive end. I'm extremely surprised by the way he's been helping Dallas win games.

sf-fanatic
12-13-2009, 04:38 AM
How can a Comeback Player of the Year be averaging 4 turnovers a game?

it doesnt matter. kobe, lebron, and dwayne have always been around 3-4 turnovers a game and have been in mvp talks. any player that controls the ball the majority of the time for their team will be near 3 turnovers a game. just look at all the superstars.

sf-fanatic
12-13-2009, 04:40 AM
Because of a hot streak? Hes really not back to the level he used to be at friend.

hot streak? this hot streak must have begun on oct 28 because you clearly aren't paying attention to his games, but instead probably watching espn keep obsessing about kobe and lebron and how good the celtics are.

theuuord
12-13-2009, 04:44 AM
it doesnt matter. kobe, lebron, and dwayne have always been around 3-4 turnovers a game and have been in mvp talks. any player that controls the ball the majority of the time for their team will be near 3 turnovers a game. just look at all the superstars.

Did you just compare Monta Ellis to 3 of the 4 best players in the game?

When Monta SNIFFS their production, we can start talking about it.

Chronz
12-13-2009, 05:02 AM
to me, Wallace and Boykins are the two frontrunners, I don't like putting Nash on this list because he's not really coming back from anything; he had a near great year last year and is having a great one now. He's definitely playing significantly better than last year, but he's not really "coming back" to form as it were. Baron is also in the conversation... I would say J-Will but his playing time is going to significantly decrease when Jameer comes back, so even though he's playing well in his role now it won't last for multiple reasons.

Agreed on the Nash bit but he has been generally viewed as an improved player, I didnt really agree with it but I had to mention it.

Chronz
12-13-2009, 05:03 AM
hot streak? this hot streak must have begun on oct 28 because you clearly aren't paying attention to his games, but instead probably watching espn keep obsessing about kobe and lebron and how good the celtics are.
you are wrong, hes not at the level he used to be, hes decent but not as good as you think he is.

Chronz
12-13-2009, 05:04 AM
it doesnt matter. kobe, lebron, and dwayne have always been around 3-4 turnovers a game and have been in mvp talks. any player that controls the ball the majority of the time for their team will be near 3 turnovers a game. just look at all the superstars.

Thats basically proving his point, when he starts producing and shouldering loads like Bron and Wade do, thats when we can overlook his ineffectiveness. Until then hes really not as good as you think. Hes got a sick midrange game but how good is his overall TS%?

sf-fanatic
12-13-2009, 05:06 AM
Did you just compare Monta Ellis to 3 of the 4 best players in the game?

When Monta SNIFFS their production, we can start talking about it.

no, i clearly didnt. you just didnt read correctly. to restate because you couldn't understand, it is common for any player that controls the ball for their team or a superstar(never said monta is one) that dominates the ball to have more turnovers because they have the ball in their hands most of the time.

when did i compare monta to the top players in the game?

Chronz
12-13-2009, 05:10 AM
no, i clearly didnt. you just didnt read correctly. to restate because you couldn't understand, it is common for any player that controls the ball for their team or a superstar(never said monta is one) that dominates the ball to have more turnovers because they have the ball in their hands most of the time.

when did i compare monta to the top players in the game?

When you tried to justify his superstar esque turnover tallies as necessary means to an end by comparing them to Bron and Wade aka guys who justify those turnover marks with supremely efficient overall play. He doesnt, so we cant overlook that fact. Teams, GM's, Scouts, and Coaches dont. What makes you so special?

NYKnicks4511
12-13-2009, 05:11 AM
Herm Edwards: Hello!?

JASON WILLIAMS!!!!!!11

sf-fanatic
12-13-2009, 05:22 AM
When you tried to justify his superstar esque turnover tallies as necessary means to an end by comparing them to Bron and Wade aka guys who justify those turnover marks with supremely efficient overall play. He doesnt, so we cant overlook that fact. Teams, GM's, Scouts, and Coaches dont. What makes you so special?

This clearly does not relate to why i was saying monta is deserving of the comeback player of the year award. when you guys hear dwade, kobe, and lebron, you guys instantly jump to conclusions that i am comparing monta to the top players in the league and calling him a superstar. NO IM NOT. monta isnt even an all star. im just trying to use dwade, kobe, lebron, and other superstars as an example of "when a player on a team dominates the ball, the turnovers will increase due to the number of times and the amount of time the player has the ball in his hands." This has nothing to do with why my warriors suck, and how the other players are carrying their teams deep into the playoffs. im not trying to argue, but im just trying to get the point across. anyways, end of argument, but i just thought that monta should be in the talks of this award if it was real, but i cant argue with the people you listed. and yes monta does turn it over a little too much, but i dont think voters ever took that stat into consideration for an award.

Chronz
12-13-2009, 06:37 AM
This clearly does not relate to why i was saying monta is deserving of the comeback player of the year award. when you guys hear dwade, kobe, and lebron, you guys instantly jump to conclusions that i am comparing monta to the top players in the league and calling him a superstar. NO IM NOT.
Let me stop you right there, nobody is saying your calling him a superstar, quite frankly I dont find you that dumb. Only an infant would think hes an all-star. We're talking about how your trying to justify an ASPECT OF HIS GAME, by justifying the means to which he attains his #'s.

Hes a decent candidate though



monta isnt even an all star. im just trying to use dwade, kobe, lebron, and other superstars as an example of "when a player on a team dominates the ball, the turnovers will increase due to the number of times and the amount of time the player has the ball in his hands."
Thats why its such a feeble argument, hes not even shouldering the burden those guys are and hes getting worse production out of it from an efficiency standpoint. Hence you cannot forgive the turnover rate. Again GM's/SCOUTS/COACHES pay attention to turnover rates, what makes you so special? This isnt something we can just casually ignore, its a significant weakness in his game.


This has nothing to do with why my warriors suck, and how the other players are carrying their teams deep into the playoffs. im not trying to argue, but im just trying to get the point across. anyways, end of argument, but i just thought that monta should be in the talks of this award if it was real, but i cant argue with the people you listed. and yes monta does turn it over a little too much, but i dont think voters ever took that stat into consideration for an award.
Depends on the voter but generalizations are fun so Ill just say yes they do. We know the point your making, your trying to make excuses for his bad play, what we're saying is that its so bad that its significantly taking away from his game. In other words, he was a better player when he didnt have the ball in his hands all the time, that was before the injury and before the move to the point. But really we couldnt expect him to play alongside Baron his entire career should we? At some point he was going to have to become a PG even if its a scoring one. And now that the time has come you have to come to grips with the reality that this is the player Monta is. Which is good but theoretical comeback of the year good?

montazingmvp
12-13-2009, 09:03 PM
Let me stop you right there, nobody is saying your calling him a superstar, quite frankly I dont find you that dumb. Only an infant would think hes an all-star. We're talking about how your trying to justify an ASPECT OF HIS GAME, by justifying the means to which he attains his #'s.

Hes a decent candidate though



Thats why its such a feeble argument, hes not even shouldering the burden those guys are and hes getting worse production out of it from an efficiency standpoint. Hence you cannot forgive the turnover rate. Again GM's/SCOUTS/COACHES pay attention to turnover rates, what makes you so special? This isnt something we can just casually ignore, its a significant weakness in his game.


Depends on the voter but generalizations are fun so Ill just say yes they do. We know the point your making, your trying to make excuses for his bad play, what we're saying is that its so bad that its significantly taking away from his game. In other words, he was a better player when he didnt have the ball in his hands all the time, that was before the injury and before the move to the point. But really we couldnt expect him to play alongside Baron his entire career should we? At some point he was going to have to become a PG even if its a scoring one. And now that the time has come you have to come to grips with the reality that this is the player Monta is. Which is good but theoretical comeback of the year good?

this is an unfair comment...monta has been playing great ever since jackson left the team...here are his numbers from his last 15 games

ppg:28.6 rpg:3.8 apg:5.2 spg:2.7 bpg:0.5 topg:3.7 fg%:.461 3fg%:.334
ft%:.821

monta is putting up great numbers aside from to's. he's scoring efficiently, playing annoying defense, rebounding decently and dishing out assists. explain to me how its justified to say that danny granger, devin harris and mo williams are allstars (all from last year) but monta isn't when he's putting up superior numbers to all of them...

he's shouldering more of a burden actually..look he's playing with...mikkie moore, radmonivic, cj watson and stephen curry. this is his supporting cast. were talking about a worse supporting cast than what kobe had around him in the mid 2000's...(not comparing monta to kobe, just comparing the role players around them)

he hasn't been playing bad, he's been playing very well actually. and we're not making up excuses, his excuses are valid...he has noone else in his entire lineup who is capable of consistently creating their own shots or creating for others...monta has to do literally everything for the warriors offense...

TheKing23
12-13-2009, 10:25 PM
Jonathan Bender

Stunner
12-13-2009, 10:31 PM
Gonna have to put Deng in there maybe and prob T-Mac also if he can stay healthy.

Chronz
12-14-2009, 03:12 AM
Jonathan Bender

Im pulling for him, kid was suppose to be Durant before Durant.


this is an unfair comment...monta has been playing great ever since jackson left the team...here are his numbers from his last 15 games

ppg:28.6 rpg:3.8 apg:5.2 spg:2.7 bpg:0.5 topg:3.7 fg%:.461 3fg%:.334
ft%:.821
Thats why in my initial response I mentioned his hot streak, the guy corrected me by saying hes been playing like this all year. So if your going to question my stance atleast understand the context of the conversation. Games in the first month of the year count as much as the 2nd one, and overall Im not going to excuse Monta from his **** play in the early going.


monta is putting up great numbers aside from to's. he's scoring efficiently, playing annoying defense, rebounding decently and dishing out assists.
Totally not what I see when I look at the stats on the season as a whole. And his last 2 years have been well beneath him, though I readily admit hes thrust into a somewhat precarious role and he is currently performing admirably but I dont think it will last and I definitely dont think hes better than say Arenas. Arenas is well beneath his former play but hes playing better than Monta and has been gone for 2 years. That a way better comeback story and its not even mentioned is basically all I was saying. If you feel hes played well enough coming back from injury thats your right, so dont take any of this personal.


explain to me how its justified to say that danny granger, devin harris and mo williams are allstars (all from last year) but monta isn't when he's putting up superior numbers to all of them...
Devin was like the top 5 or so statistically, Monta the past 2 years has been meddling around league average, Mo is no All-Star but even he has better stats than Monta. Again Im talking on the year


he's shouldering more of a burden actually..look he's playing with...mikkie moore, radmonivic, cj watson and stephen curry. this is his supporting cast. were talking about a worse supporting cast than what kobe had around him in the mid 2000's...(not comparing monta to kobe, just comparing the role players around them)

So then why mention them? As you just admitted, the teammates may be the same caliber but one player will still handle a greater role thats just how great they are, thats how far off Monta is from being at their level so hes not really as good as his bloated per game averages have you thinking. Just put it this way, if your not at the top of your role at either being the star or a role player then its possible for a role player to actually be a superior force than the alleged star.

Thats Monta in a nutshell, hes playing a role well above his skill set, perhaps if he were to get another big PG he could play off the ball and not worry about creating, and probably explains why he hates playing with Curry.


he hasn't been playing bad, he's been playing very well actually. and we're not making up excuses, his excuses are valid...he has noone else in his entire lineup who is capable of consistently creating their own shots or creating for others...monta has to do literally everything for the warriors offense...
Welcome to the life of a first option Monta, learn to handle the role. Ill put it as delicately as I can, if your impressed with what Monta is doing then we just have severely different methods of evaluating performance given a players role.

droalex
12-14-2009, 03:45 AM
I vote Ben Wallace.