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View Full Version : The "I never jumped on Rose's Bandwagon and I'm not jumping on Jennings's either!"



KnicksorBust
12-09-2009, 02:19 PM
Rewind to 2008, and let's take a look at #1 overall pick Derrick Rose. Highly touted from the university of Memphis, Rose began making an impact very quickly with the Bulls. His flashy moves combined with great athleticism allowed him to penetrate the lane and create a lot of easy baskets. PSD immediately fell in love and a bandwagon was formed. I never bought it for a second. I knew after watching him choke in the last minute of the NCAA finals that he couldn't be THE guy and it was proven by his inconsistent performances in last years playoffs and the fact that he was a turnover machine in that 7 game series with the Celtics. Now reality is sinking in with Bulls fans that they have a very good player but not a franchise star.

Fast forward to 2009. Brandon Jennings, passed over by many teams for his alleged attitude problem, comes firing out of the gate. In his first game he puts up a near triple double with 17 points, 9 assists, 9 rebounds! In just his sixth game as a pro he scores 55 points and even leads the Bucks (sans Redd) to an 8-3 start! Who cares that the 55 point game was against the Warriors? Ignore the fact that their wins came against almost completely lackluster opponents (Pistons, T-Wolves, Knicks, Nuggets, Warriors, Nets, Bobcats, Grizzlies) because they were the hot team and he was the hot rookie! Give it a few days and here's the PSD Brandon Jennings bandwagon! I didn't jump on the Rose bandwagon and I'm not jumping on the Jennings bandwagon.

I see the numbers that these guys put up and I don't see Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups. I could see Derrick Rose having a very similar career to a Baron Davis and Brandon Jennings has some Gilbert Arenas in him. The fact is from what I've watched and read about these players, I don't see franchise player and I definately don't see Superstar.

superkegger
12-09-2009, 02:22 PM
I get the hysteria over them though. Two teams stuck in ruts for years, get a very exciting PG that looks to be franchise material.

Especially Milwaukee fans, who have been continually dissapointed by Michael Redd and Co.

1-800-STFU
12-09-2009, 02:25 PM
Hasn't really sunk in for me yet Rose isn't a franchise star....he's 20

In 3 years if he hasn't improved then ill agree with you.

ink
12-09-2009, 02:26 PM
Good thread. Completely agree. I don't see Billups, Chris Paul, or Deron Williams potential in them either.

Hawkeye15
12-09-2009, 02:26 PM
I was high on Rose, and still am. Jennings had one great game, take that away he is 17 ppg on bad shooting. He will be a good player, but its too early to tell how good.
Rose will be an awesome player

Gibby23
12-09-2009, 02:36 PM
Good thread. Completely agree. I don't see Billups, Chris Paul, or Deron Williams potential in them either.

It took Billups like 7 year to be who he is and D will started to take off in his second year and arrived in his 3rd.

Cubsfan365
12-09-2009, 02:38 PM
I bet if Derrick Rose was on the Knicks you would definitely consider him a francise player with superstar potential. I have heard that much about Gallinari, and he has nothing on Derrick Rose.

KnicksorBust
12-09-2009, 02:44 PM
I bet if Derrick Rose was on the Knicks you would definitely consider him a francise player with superstar potential. I have heard that much about Gallinari, and he has nothing on Derrick Rose.

Wow it took a full 6 posts before someone took a shot at the Knicks. Keep up the good work PSD. :clap:

Raph12
12-09-2009, 02:46 PM
It's too early to tell IMO.

Pauleboman
12-09-2009, 02:47 PM
All I can say is Choo-Choo jump on board before its too late.nice pic though

scandaless2
12-09-2009, 02:50 PM
bait thread

GreenMan305
12-09-2009, 02:53 PM
who cares what u think..

evans is better than both

RueDaTruth
12-09-2009, 02:55 PM
First of all Rose is a Franchise player. He doesn't have a good head coach or a good team around him. Once that Occurs he will prove everyone that he is. I have to agree with about Brandon Jennings he is a fraud and will continue to struggle. As far as the Chris Paul Billups comparison. Its to soon to compare Rose to anyone of them but I will say this Billups wasnt good at all when he first came in the league.

bears88
12-09-2009, 02:56 PM
all i can say is Rose and Jennings are the future PGs in the nba

Cubsfan365
12-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Wow it took a full 6 posts before someone took a shot at the Knicks. Keep up the good work PSD. :clap:
The truth is it is way too early to tell if either one will be a superstar or franchise player in the NBA. As previously stated it took Billups until his 7th season to become how good he is. With the Knicks thing, if there is this much hype around Gallinari, imagine what would have happened with the NY media if Jennings scored 55 in his 6th game or Rose scored 36 and dished out 11 assists in his first ever playoff game. You say Rose will nver be "THE guy" because he was a turnover machine in the playoffs, but the fact is he was a rookie trying to carry that team against the Celtics. If 36 pts, 11 ast in your playoff debut are not the sign of a franchise player or superstar, then I have no idea what is.

Draco
12-09-2009, 03:02 PM
Rewind to 2008, and let's take a look at #1 overall pick Derrick Rose. Highly touted from the university of Memphis, Rose began making an impact very quickly with the Bulls. His flashy moves combined with great athleticism allowed him to penetrate the lane and create a lot of easy baskets. PSD immediately fell in love and a bandwagon was formed. I never bought it for a second. I knew after watching him choke in the last minute of the NCAA finals that he couldn't be THE guy and it was proven by his inconsistent performances in last years playoffs and the fact that he was a turnover machine in that 7 game series with the Celtics. Now reality is sinking in with Bulls fans that they have a very good player but not a franchise star.

Ignore the fact that Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Chauncey Billups (who you compare to Rose later in your post) never played in the playoffs in their rookie season. And ignore the fact that Cauncey Billups was a journeyman for most of his career and didn't make a name for himself until he landed in Detroit.



Fast forward to 2009. Brandon Jennings, passed over by many teams for his alleged attitude problem, comes firing out of the gate. In his first game he puts up a near triple double with 17 points, 9 assists, 9 rebounds! In just his sixth game as a pro he scores 55 points and even leads the Bucks (sans Redd) to an 8-3 start! Who cares that the 55 point game was against the Warriors? Ignore the fact that their wins came against almost completely lackluster opponents (Pistons, T-Wolves, Knicks, Nuggets, Warriors, Nets, Bobcats, Grizzlies) because they were the hot team and he was the hot rookie! Give it a few days and here's the PSD Brandon Jennings bandwagon! I didn't jump on the Rose bandwagon and I'm not jumping on the Jennings bandwagon.

Well, goodie for you.. I don't know why anyone would want to be a bandwagon fan in the first place.



I see the numbers that these guys put up and I don't see Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups. I could see Derrick Rose having a very similar career to a Baron Davis and Brandon Jennings has some Gilbert Arenas in him. The fact is from what I've watched and read about these players, I don't see franchise player and I definately don't see Superstar.

I see a player who's better than any of the garbage currently on the Knick's roster or likely to be on the Knick's roster in the near future.

LanceUpperCut
12-09-2009, 03:02 PM
NY vs. CHI thread. I'll sit back and enjoy.

Draco
12-09-2009, 03:04 PM
Good thread. Completely agree. I don't see Billups, Chris Paul, or Deron Williams potential in them either.

Can we start a "I never jumped on the BC bandwagon and I'm not jumping on the Turk or Derozan bandwagon"? I suppose that would be an equally compelling thread.

ProdigyI
12-09-2009, 03:04 PM
Bait thread anybody?

montazingmvp
12-09-2009, 03:04 PM
all i can say is Rose and Jennings are the future PGs in the nba

tyreke evans has been so far, by far and away better than both of them

bears88
12-09-2009, 03:11 PM
if you ask me rose has a pass first score second mentality thats why he does not score in bunches and yes Evans is good am not taking that away from him also rose has a dumass of a coach that does not use him properly

Cubsfan365
12-09-2009, 03:13 PM
tyreke evans has been so far, by far and away better than both of them
I would definitely not say far and away, he will probably hit a wall somewhere during the season. But I would consider him the best rookie PG so far, and it doesn't hurt that Martin isn't there jacking up shots all over the place.

ink
12-09-2009, 03:14 PM
It took Billups like 7 year to be who he is and D will started to take off in his second year and arrived in his 3rd.

All those players are well rounded PGs. I'm not so sure the potential is there for Jennings and Rose to become that. That's the point. It would be ironic if the Bucks got Jennings only to discover he was another version of Michael Redd.

ink
12-09-2009, 03:16 PM
Can we start a "I never jumped on the BC bandwagon and I'm not jumping on the Turk or Derozan bandwagon"? I suppose that would be an equally compelling thread.

This is the NBA forum. It's not a team forum. That's at least one major difference in the nature of the thread.


Bait thread anybody?

Sorry I didn't see it that way since I haven't seen a lot of threads about the downside of Jennings. You probably have a point with Rose doubters but I'm not that familiar with those since I mostly see him hyped up.

Ray_R
12-09-2009, 03:17 PM
It took Billups like 7 year to be who he is and D will started to take off in his second year and arrived in his 3rd.

:clap:

Draco
12-09-2009, 03:19 PM
All those players are well rounded PGs. I'm not so sure the potential is there for Jennings and Rose to become that. That's the point. It would be ironic if the Bucks got Jennings only to discover he was another version of Michael Redd.

Sure.. Billups averaged around 3 to 4 assists in his first 5 years in the league.. clearly he was a well rounded PG coming into the league. And clearly if Rose isn't a "well rounded PG" by the first 18 games in his 2nd season then "I'm not so sure the potential is there".

Draco
12-09-2009, 03:22 PM
Sorry I didn't see it that way since I haven't seen a lot of threads about the downside of Jennings. You probably have a point with Rose doubters but I'm not that familiar with those since I mostly see him hyped up.

Sorry, but the OP's criticism isn't really fair if he's bringing up Rose's rookie season playoff performance when comparing Rose to vets who never saw the playoffs in their rookie season.

ink
12-09-2009, 03:24 PM
Sure.. Billups averaged around 3 to 4 assists in his first 5 years in the league.. clearly he was a well rounded PG coming into the league. And clearly if Rose isn't a "well rounded PG" by the first 18 games in his 2nd season then "I'm not so sure the potential is there".

I don't really have any strong feelings about the topic to be honest. Every time I see Rose he's so so. That's all I really have to go on. And just because Billups took a while doesn't mean every guard with potential who takes a while is going to be great. DWill and CP3 were pretty damn good right away. Anyway, if you like Rose, that's fine too. My comments were basically a response to the hype both he and Jennings get. I don't see it justification for it yet, that's all. Maybe Jennings will go off for 81 against the Raps tonight who knows. lol.

Gibby23
12-09-2009, 03:29 PM
All those players are well rounded PGs. I'm not so sure the potential is there for Jennings and Rose to become that. That's the point. It would be ironic if the Bucks got Jennings only to discover he was another version of Michael Redd.

I don't think you can say that. The other PG's you named didn't become elite until the 3rd year they were in the NBA and it took Billips 7 years. Rose had better numbers than D will and Billips in his rookie year and was comparable to CP3. It took Nash about 5 years to be good and 9 years to be great and he is a hall of famer. Too early to count rose and Jennings out.

Trouble87
12-09-2009, 03:29 PM
Wow it took a full 6 posts before someone took a shot at the Knicks. Keep up the good work PSD. :clap:

not the first and wont be the last

effen5
12-09-2009, 03:31 PM
Ignore the fact that Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Chauncey Billups (who you compare to Rose later in your post) never played in the playoffs in their rookie season. And ignore the fact that Cauncey Billups was a journeyman for most of his career and didn't make a name for himself until he landed in Detroit.



Well, goodie for you.. I don't know why anyone would want to be a bandwagon fan in the first place.



I see a player who's better than any of the garbage currently on the Knick's roster or likely to be on the Knick's roster in the near future.

This pretty much sums it all.

Draco
12-09-2009, 03:31 PM
I don't really have any strong feelings about the topic to be honest. Every time I see Rose he's so so. That's all I really have to go on. And just because Billups took a while doesn't mean every guard with potential who takes a while is going to be great. DWill and CP3 were pretty damn good right away.

Dwil came into the league with 3 years of college ball under his belt; Paul with 2. Rose with 1.



Anyway, if you like Rose, that's fine too. My comments were basically a response to the hype both he and Jennings get. I don't see it justification for it yet, that's all. Maybe Jennings will go off for 81 against the Raps tonight who knows. lol.

I always read about how praise for Rose is an overblown issue but I've yet to see any evidence of that. When Rose played well he was deserving of the praise he received.

ink
12-09-2009, 03:32 PM
I don't think you can say that. The other PG's you named didn't become elite until the 3rd year they were in the NBA and it took Billips 7 years. Rose had better numbers than D will and Billips in his rookie year and was comparable to CP3. It took Nash about 5 years to be good and 9 years to be great and he is a hall of famer. Too early to count rose and Jennings out.

Maybe, maybe not. For my part I just find the hype annoying.

effen5
12-09-2009, 03:34 PM
Good thread. Completely agree. I don't see Billups, Chris Paul, or Deron Williams potential in them either.

And please tell me who saw potential in Billups before he got into Detroit....

ink
12-09-2009, 03:36 PM
I always read about how praise for Rose is an overblown issue but I've yet to see any evidence of that. When Rose played well he was deserving of the praise he received.

I seem to remember lots of "is Rose going to be as good as ... [insert superstar name here]" threads. :shrug:

ink
12-09-2009, 03:37 PM
And please tell me who saw potential in Billups before he got into Detroit....

Like I said, I just agreed with the thread, I don't have to defend it.

Draco
12-09-2009, 03:46 PM
I seem to remember lots of "is Rose going to be as good as ... [insert superstar name here]" threads. :shrug:

There are also a lots of "Fire VDN" threads in the Bulls forum and they mean just as much. If the OP had some solid criticism (read: valid comparisons) of Rose then the thread wouldn't be such a waste of bandwidth.

DerekRE_3
12-09-2009, 03:48 PM
And please tell me who saw potential in Billups before he got into Detroit....

Maybe the team that drafted him #3 overall? You don't draft someone that high for nothing.

ecorrea
12-09-2009, 03:49 PM
i think this thread has a lot of good comments detailing why rose isnt a bust, or not THE guy...

and the thread says more to the haters out there...

Knickorbust where ya at homy? Read the posts?

runforrestrunx9
12-09-2009, 04:23 PM
Ok so I understand many of u guys either hate rose/jennings/evans or love them. I just dont understand how u can completely judge these guys on their very short career. Many of u r saying that they dont have potential to be on Billups, CP3's, or Deron's level. well, nobody thought Deron or Chauncey would be at that level either. Deron didnt breakout arguebally until his 3rd year and it took Billups like 7 years and hes gotten alot more hype since he went 2 the nuggets.

Now Jennings and evans have played what 20 games? the fact that there is even argument that these guys r at that level shows their special. Now alot of u r bashing jennings saying he is only averaging 17 ppg without the 55 point game... dudes, do u realize what ur saying?? Ur talking about a rookie scoring 55 points!!!! thats incredible. He has shown brilliance and u cant argue that. Evans has put up a great stat line so far this season and is getting D-wade comparisons. Now i have never seen a Kings game, so i cant truly assess him, but holy ****, hes putting up 17 ppg, 5.4 boards, 3 assists and 2 steals as a rookie. Both of these guys have basically turned their franchise around and ur all saying their not furreal, how the hell do u kno!?!?

Ok, now 2 rose. O so he has gotten off 2 a slow start and somehow that has gotten every1 2 forget about his rookie season. He put up 17 points, 4 boards, and 6 assists a game. He also led his team 2 tha playoffs and played like a 10 year vet. Now hes playing his 2nd year and he has been battling injuries all year and he plays for a dumb coach and has a pass first mentality. And what has he done?? Hes put up 16 ppg, 3 boards, and 5.6 assists. Still really impressive for a 2nd year with all the factors that r slowing him down...

Now just for fun i am going 2 bring up some superstars rookie years stats.
CP3- 16 points, 8 assists, 5 boards
D- Will- 11 points, 4.5 assists, 2.5 boards
Billups- 11 points, 3 assists, 3 boards
D-wade- 16 points, 4 assists, 4.5 boards
Lebron James- 21 points, 6 assists, 5.5 boards
Kobe Bryant- 7.5 points, 1 assist, 2 boards
Kevin Durant- 20 points, 2 assists, 4 boards
I will not put any bigmen stats here cuz we cant compare guards n sfs 2 bug guys

Now here r jennings evans and roses rookie stats
Jennings- 21 points, 6 assists, 4 boards
Evans- 17 points, 4 assists, 5 boards
Rose- 17 points, 6 assits, 4 boards

From what i can see, these 3 guys all have better stats then dwill, dwade, billups, durant and they all nearly triple kobes rookie year stats. Jennings sits with CP3 and Lebron, and tyreke and rose sit somewhere inbetween. Now mistake me if i am wrong, but that is pretty damn good.

Now i am not saying any of these guys will be superstars or not, but what i am saying is that its 2 early 2 tell. It pisses me off when people say they dont have the chance 2 be supertars cuz their stats say otherwise. I think people bash on them cuz their either jealous their own teams dont have them, or they just want 2 join into the "they suck" bandwagon.

For the record, i am a diehard sixers fan and i have no bias towards any of them.

Mr. Fluffi
12-09-2009, 04:31 PM
I have been on the Rose bandwagon and I still am :)

I understand people who think he won't be a franchise player or a superstar though, because he has really stunk it up this season so far (based on my expectations).

But still: He came into the season with an ankle injury and without the guy who put the most pressure off his back in Ben Gordon. The other guy who was a real offensive threat last year, John Salmons, is playing like crap.

The only two guys shooting a higher fg% than Rose are Noah and Gibson. While Noah has improved tremendosly he's still not a big force on the offensive end and Gibson is a Rookie.

Rose's three options at the SG spot are shooting 36.8% (Pargo and Hinrich) and 39% (Salmons) from the field. Deng is playing well, but I don't think he's the best complement to Rose (he doesn't space the floor that well because he hesitates to take 3-point shots (although that is changing right now)).

Unforunately Rose has the ability of a comboguard but the mindset of a pass-first point guard. Now add to that, that the guys he tries to pass to are not very good offensive options and he has a crappy coach and you will understand why I'm not ready to leave his bandwagon yet.

However I think this experience will get him to next level scoring wise, as he is clearly the number one-option on the team (although his own headcoach doesn't seem to recognize that) and therefore has to develop that killer-instinct he's missing right now.

JayW_1023
12-10-2009, 07:09 AM
I'll jump on Tyreke Evans bandwagon before I jump on Jennings'. Tyreke has in fact been much more consistent and efficient than Jennings...but Jennings gets all the hype.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-10-2009, 09:40 AM
Rose is highly overrated!!!

KnicksorBust
12-10-2009, 12:14 PM
It took Billups like 7 year to be who he is and D will started to take off in his second year and arrived in his 3rd.

So any PG who outproduces Billups's subpar start can reach his level of success? I don't really see how Billup's career arc helps your point. I am simply stating that from what I've read and seen about these two players, I don't think they will reach a superstar level and win rings.


The truth is it is way too early to tell if either one will be a superstar or franchise player in the NBA. As previously stated it took Billups until his 7th season to become how good he is. With the Knicks thing, if there is this much hype around Gallinari, imagine what would have happened with the NY media if Jennings scored 55 in his 6th game or Rose scored 36 and dished out 11 assists in his first ever playoff game. You say Rose will nver be "THE guy" because he was a turnover machine in the playoffs, but the fact is he was a rookie trying to carry that team against the Celtics. If 36 pts, 11 ast in your playoff debut are not the sign of a franchise player or superstar, then I have no idea what is.

Your point? So we shouldn't form opinions until there career is over? Can I debate my thoughts then?

Oh and I'm just wondering how does Gallinari fit into this thread? :)




I see a player who's better than any of the garbage currently on the Knick's roster or likely to be on the Knick's roster in the near future.

Eloquent and thought-provoking response. :laugh: It's like how can I have a serious discussion about this topic with someone like this?


There are also a lots of "Fire VDN" threads in the Bulls forum and they mean just as much. If the OP had some solid criticism (read: valid comparisons) of Rose then the thread wouldn't be such a waste of bandwidth.

The thread is mostly about how I think people overreacted to Jennings and that I never saw him as the superstar others were already projecting him to be. However I'll take a minute and talk about Rose. He's regressing and even Bulls fans have wondered if he has that killer instinct to be a franchise player. I saw all 7 games vs. boston and his NCAA Finals performance and see him as a very good player who can be an all-star but I don't see superstar. His numbers have regressed slightly from year 1 to year 2 which is an alarming trend in my opinion.

Derrick Rose
Year 1 = 17-6-4 shooting 48/22/79
Year 2 = 16-6-3 shooting 46/14/78

In my OP I compared him to Baron Davis, another athletic scoring PG who has the skills to consistently penetrate and distribute. Neither is a very good perimeter shooter. This isn't a valid comparison? I think Bulls fans would be lucky if Rose has as many clutch baskets in his career as Davis. I, however, never saw Baron Davis as a franchise player either and that's how I feel about Derrick Rose.

Gibby23
12-10-2009, 12:28 PM
So any PG who outproduces Billups's subpar start can reach his level of success? I don't really see how Billup's career arc helps your point. I am simply stating that from what I've read and seen about these two players, I don't think they will reach a superstar level and win rings.


Your point? So we shouldn't form opinions until there career is over? Can I debate my thoughts then?

Oh and I'm just wondering how does Gallinari fit into this thread? :)



Eloquent and thought-provoking response. :laugh: It's like how can I have a serious discussion about this topic with someone like this?



The thread is mostly about how I think people overreacted to Jennings and that I never saw him as the superstar others were already projecting him to be. However I'll take a minute and talk about Rose. He's regressing and even Bulls fans have wondered if he has that killer instinct to be a franchise player. I saw all 7 games vs. boston and his NCAA Finals performance and see him as a very good player who can be an all-star but I don't see superstar. His numbers have regressed slightly from year 1 to year 2 which is an alarming trend in my opinion.

Derrick Rose
Year 1 = 17-6-4 shooting 48/22/79
Year 2 = 16-6-3 shooting 46/14/78

In my OP I compared him to Baron Davis, another athletic scoring PG who has the skills to consistently penetrate and distribute. Neither is a very good perimeter shooter. This isn't a valid comparison? I think Bulls fans would be lucky if Rose has as many clutch baskets in his career as Davis. I, however, never saw Baron Davis as a franchise player either and that's how I feel about Derrick Rose.

If you read the post that I replied to, it mentioned Billups. I wasn't even replying to you.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
12-10-2009, 12:35 PM
55 point's against any team us a huge mileston. especially for a rookie..

GodsSon
12-10-2009, 12:42 PM
from what i've seen Rose has not increased the range on his jumpshot, and has not improved his jumpshot...his defence is also very lacking for a guy who's as fast as he is....his aggressiveness also seems to be down this year, but im assuming that has something to do with the ankle injury he had to start the season

b_rad23
12-10-2009, 12:56 PM
Ok so I understand many of u guys either hate rose/jennings/evans or love them. I just dont understand how u can completely judge these guys on their very short career. Many of u r saying that they dont have potential to be on Billups, CP3's, or Deron's level. well, nobody thought Deron or Chauncey would be at that level either. Deron didnt breakout arguebally until his 3rd year and it took Billups like 7 years and hes gotten alot more hype since he went 2 the nuggets.

Now Jennings and evans have played what 20 games? the fact that there is even argument that these guys r at that level shows their special. Now alot of u r bashing jennings saying he is only averaging 17 ppg without the 55 point game... dudes, do u realize what ur saying?? Ur talking about a rookie scoring 55 points!!!! thats incredible. He has shown brilliance and u cant argue that. Evans has put up a great stat line so far this season and is getting D-wade comparisons. Now i have never seen a Kings game, so i cant truly assess him, but holy ****, hes putting up 17 ppg, 5.4 boards, 3 assists and 2 steals as a rookie. Both of these guys have basically turned their franchise around and ur all saying their not furreal, how the hell do u kno!?!?

Ok, now 2 rose. O so he has gotten off 2 a slow start and somehow that has gotten every1 2 forget about his rookie season. He put up 17 points, 4 boards, and 6 assists a game. He also led his team 2 tha playoffs and played like a 10 year vet. Now hes playing his 2nd year and he has been battling injuries all year and he plays for a dumb coach and has a pass first mentality. And what has he done?? Hes put up 16 ppg, 3 boards, and 5.6 assists. Still really impressive for a 2nd year with all the factors that r slowing him down...

Now just for fun i am going 2 bring up some superstars rookie years stats.
CP3- 16 points, 8 assists, 5 boards
D- Will- 11 points, 4.5 assists, 2.5 boards
Billups- 11 points, 3 assists, 3 boards
D-wade- 16 points, 4 assists, 4.5 boards
Lebron James- 21 points, 6 assists, 5.5 boards
Kobe Bryant- 7.5 points, 1 assist, 2 boards
Kevin Durant- 20 points, 2 assists, 4 boards
I will not put any bigmen stats here cuz we cant compare guards n sfs 2 bug guys

Now here r jennings evans and roses rookie stats
Jennings- 21 points, 6 assists, 4 boards
Evans- 17 points, 4 assists, 5 boards
Rose- 17 points, 6 assits, 4 boards

From what i can see, these 3 guys all have better stats then dwill, dwade, billups, durant and they all nearly triple kobes rookie year stats. Jennings sits with CP3 and Lebron, and tyreke and rose sit somewhere inbetween. Now mistake me if i am wrong, but that is pretty damn good.

Now i am not saying any of these guys will be superstars or not, but what i am saying is that its 2 early 2 tell. It pisses me off when people say they dont have the chance 2 be supertars cuz their stats say otherwise. I think people bash on them cuz their either jealous their own teams dont have them, or they just want 2 join into the "they suck" bandwagon.

For the record, i am a diehard sixers fan and i have no bias towards any of them.

The difference being Wade came in on a good team with two players about as good. He also played defense. Rose came in and was arguably the best player on his team and played 0 defense. Wade was also in his first year at PG.

Another HUGE difference in these comparisons is that Rose has regressed, while Wade jumped to 24-7-5 as a sophomore.

I completely agree with ink. Every time I watch Rose I come away largely unimpressed. I see the athleticism, I don't really see a guy that people were comparing to top 5 players like Paul and Wade.

I see a guy who will be a solid-very good PG (probably a top 6 PG) and really has a ton of wholes in his game.

Right now he's poor defensively, a poor shooter, and nothing to write home about as a passer.

So an athletic guy who can hit midrange and get to the rim? This is the guy we're heralding as the next big thing?

I don't see it.

mavwar53
12-10-2009, 01:03 PM
I was high on Rose, and still am. Jennings had one great game, take that away he is 17 ppg on bad shooting. He will be a good player, but its too early to tell how good.
Rose will be an awesome player

He sure wouldn't be down to 17 don't state things that are not true, take that game out and he is averaging about 19.2

mavwar53
12-10-2009, 01:04 PM
Ok so I understand many of u guys either hate rose/jennings/evans or love them. I just dont understand how u can completely judge these guys on their very short career. Many of u r saying that they dont have potential to be on Billups, CP3's, or Deron's level. well, nobody thought Deron or Chauncey would be at that level either. Deron didnt breakout arguebally until his 3rd year and it took Billups like 7 years and hes gotten alot more hype since he went 2 the nuggets.

Now Jennings and evans have played what 20 games? the fact that there is even argument that these guys r at that level shows their special. Now alot of u r bashing jennings saying he is only averaging 17 ppg without the 55 point game... dudes, do u realize what ur saying?? Ur talking about a rookie scoring 55 points!!!! thats incredible. He has shown brilliance and u cant argue that. Evans has put up a great stat line so far this season and is getting D-wade comparisons. Now i have never seen a Kings game, so i cant truly assess him, but holy ****, hes putting up 17 ppg, 5.4 boards, 3 assists and 2 steals as a rookie. Both of these guys have basically turned their franchise around and ur all saying their not furreal, how the hell do u kno!?!?

Ok, now 2 rose. O so he has gotten off 2 a slow start and somehow that has gotten every1 2 forget about his rookie season. He put up 17 points, 4 boards, and 6 assists a game. He also led his team 2 tha playoffs and played like a 10 year vet. Now hes playing his 2nd year and he has been battling injuries all year and he plays for a dumb coach and has a pass first mentality. And what has he done?? Hes put up 16 ppg, 3 boards, and 5.6 assists. Still really impressive for a 2nd year with all the factors that r slowing him down...

Now just for fun i am going 2 bring up some superstars rookie years stats.
CP3- 16 points, 8 assists, 5 boards
D- Will- 11 points, 4.5 assists, 2.5 boards
Billups- 11 points, 3 assists, 3 boards
D-wade- 16 points, 4 assists, 4.5 boards
Lebron James- 21 points, 6 assists, 5.5 boards
Kobe Bryant- 7.5 points, 1 assist, 2 boards
Kevin Durant- 20 points, 2 assists, 4 boards
I will not put any bigmen stats here cuz we cant compare guards n sfs 2 bug guys

Now here r jennings evans and roses rookie stats
Jennings- 21 points, 6 assists, 4 boards
Evans- 17 points, 4 assists, 5 boards
Rose- 17 points, 6 assits, 4 boards

From what i can see, these 3 guys all have better stats then dwill, dwade, billups, durant and they all nearly triple kobes rookie year stats. Jennings sits with CP3 and Lebron, and tyreke and rose sit somewhere inbetween. Now mistake me if i am wrong, but that is pretty damn good.

Now i am not saying any of these guys will be superstars or not, but what i am saying is that its 2 early 2 tell. It pisses me off when people say they dont have the chance 2 be supertars cuz their stats say otherwise. I think people bash on them cuz their either jealous their own teams dont have them, or they just want 2 join into the "they suck" bandwagon.

For the record, i am a diehard sixers fan and i have no bias towards any of them.

evans is averaging 20 not 17

ManRam
12-10-2009, 01:11 PM
I'm not a hard core Rose fan, but I think he will be a star. I am not, however, on the Jennings' bandwagon, and never was or will be any time soon. If you ignore that one game...he has been average this year. It was absolutely ridiculous how overhyped he got very quickly. Never ever seen anything like that before...especially for someone so undeserving. People already claiming other teams' draft as busts, people anointing him an all-star already, him popping up in top 10 and even top 5 PG lists already...etc. All of that is absurd.

Evans is better than both RIGHT now, and I think he will have the better career. I think Jennings will have the lesser career of the three.

Pauleboman
12-10-2009, 01:24 PM
55 point's against any team us a huge mileston. especially for a rookie..

I think both players will have success in the nba!

jim51990
12-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Rondos better then both of them

Gators123
12-10-2009, 01:35 PM
Rondos better then both of them

:hide:

icon1914
12-10-2009, 01:43 PM
So you knock Rose and Jennings, by comparing them to Billups?

Please do some research and tell me what Billups was doing during his first 2 years in the NBA.

Rose has hit a wall, but I think in time he will get over it and Jennings is having a very solid rookie season. To you downplay his 55 point game by saying it was against GSW. Using that logic someone bust 55 on the Warriors every game. 55 is a great achievement against any team.

Plus didn't Jennings have a 30+ point game on Denver? On Billups?

If you don't like these two guys fine, but time will tell where they end up... while the future is not set in stone.... its looking bright for Jennings and Rose.

Bullsfan22
12-10-2009, 02:31 PM
It's funny how people can come to conclusions like "he regressed" and for one doesn't know he was favoring an injury the first 15 games of the season and literally took jump shots all game and averaged 15 points. Secondly not knowing the kind of offense or lack of offense we run is vanilla. Lastly the team hasn't played 25 games, yet you classify him as regressed. I laugh at most people in the nba forum because everyone have their own "agendas". either you market your star player as the best in the league or the biggest up and coming star, or you make threads or attack players you simply just don't like or think they got to much props for their accomplishments. kobe drops 55 or a game winner laker fans want to celebrate why not? but haters take it as he's being overrated or over hyped. The same laker fans that celebrates kobe accomplishments switches rolls when lebron gets 55 or when jennings droped his 55. To make what I said as simple as possible fans on here promote their star player whenever they can and the haters roll around and say he's over hyped and fans of different teams switch rolls. I'm not attacking anyone just using laker/kobe and cavs/lebron fans as an example. That is why the nba general forum is pure junk.

drama1386
12-10-2009, 02:43 PM
all i gotta say is that I like rose & jennings and haters will hate.

Bullsfan22
12-10-2009, 02:49 PM
all i gotta say is that I like rose & jennings and haters will hate.

x2 man. when will people give props to players and not let what homer fans say affect how they think about the player? you can make 1,000 BJ scored 55 points and drose didn't threads and I'd still think "dang that man jennings can ball" "kobe got his 81 against a bad raptor team" SO WHAT HE DROPPED 81! "lebron is only good because he's physically gifted" SO WHAT, ITS A REASON THEY CALL HIM KING JAMES. "Rondo is only good because he plays with 3 all-stars" SO WHAT DIDNT HE DAMN NEAR AVERAGE A TRIPLE DOUBLE IN A PLAYOFF SERIES? like I said in my last post "nba general" is purely for entertainment.

Draco
12-10-2009, 03:48 PM
So any PG who outproduces Billups's subpar start can reach his level of success? I don't really see how Billup's career arc helps your point. I am simply stating that from what I've read and seen about these two players, I don't think they will reach a superstar level and win rings.

So any PG who isn't consistent as a rookie in a playoff series can't reach Billups' level of success? Billups' career doesn't help your point.. if anything if you take into consideration all three of the veteran point guards you've mentioned as well as a Nash, Harris and plenty of others you'll notice there isn't a single pattern of maturation and production at that position.



Your point? So we shouldn't form opinions until there career is over? Can I debate my thoughts then?

Their career.. Did you pay attention when grammar was taught in primary school?



Eloquent and thought-provoking response. :laugh: It's like how can I have a serious discussion about this topic with someone like this?

You have yet to post anything thought provoking.



The thread is mostly about how I think people overreacted to Jennings and that I never saw him as the superstar others were already projecting him to be. However I'll take a minute and talk about Rose. He's regressing and even Bulls fans have wondered if he has that killer instinct to be a franchise player. I saw all 7 games vs. boston and his NCAA Finals performance and see him as a very good player who can be an all-star but I don't see superstar. His numbers have regressed slightly from year 1 to year 2 which is an alarming trend in my opinion.

Derrick Rose
Year 1 = 17-6-4 shooting 48/22/79
Year 2 = 16-6-3 shooting 46/14/78

In my OP I compared him to Baron Davis, another athletic scoring PG who has the skills to consistently penetrate and distribute. Neither is a very good perimeter shooter. This isn't a valid comparison? I think Bulls fans would be lucky if Rose has as many clutch baskets in his career as Davis. I, however, never saw Baron Davis as a franchise player either and that's how I feel about Derrick Rose.

Get real. It's only 20 games into Rose's second season. Rose came into the season with an ankle injury and the Salmons and Miller haven't been playing at the same level they were at last season. There's more going on with the team that affects the individual success (or stats) than you're willing to acknowledge.

Bulls fans on PSD are typically no differen't than fans of any other team on PSD. If the team isn't doing well; fire the coach, trade 3/4 of the team and question your budding superstar.

king9er
12-10-2009, 04:11 PM
I was never big on rose but I like jennings not because he puts up like 50 shots a game and for a 33% fg rating but the kid is clutch.

C_Mund
12-10-2009, 04:19 PM
Wow it took a full 6 posts before someone took a shot at the Knicks. Keep up the good work PSD. :clap:

It took less than a half season before you take shots at whole careers.

Cool007
12-10-2009, 05:46 PM
It took less than a half season before you take shots at whole careers.

Hahahaaaaaaaaa

PWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!

:clap:

Lizard King
12-10-2009, 05:56 PM
Lol Knicks.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2009, 06:02 PM
Finally. I never jumped on either one.

The hype Jennings is getting right now is so stupid.

People want him to start with Wade in the ASG.

Come on.

As for Rose, I see the potential but how is he ahead of Johnson in the ASG voting.

KnicksorBust
12-10-2009, 06:05 PM
So any PG who isn't consistent as a rookie in a playoff series can't reach Billups' level of success? Billups' career doesn't help your point.. if anything if you take into consideration all three of the veteran point guards you've mentioned as well as a Nash, Harris and plenty of others you'll notice there isn't a single pattern of maturation and production at that position.



Their career.. Did you pay attention when grammar was taught in primary school?



You have yet to post anything thought provoking.



Get real. It's only 20 games into Rose's second season. Rose came into the season with an ankle injury and the Salmons and Miller haven't been playing at the same level they were at last season. There's more going on with the team that affects the individual success (or stats) than you're willing to acknowledge.

Bulls fans on PSD are typically no differen't than fans of any other team on PSD. If the team isn't doing well; fire the coach, trade 3/4 of the team and question your budding superstar.

When did I use Billups as proof of anything? He is just a representation of a status level that I don't believe Rose and Jennings can reach. "It's only 20 games..." so what? When are we allowed to look at his production and evaluate it? I mean you want to tell me he's not at 100% because of his ankle then fine but enough of this setting an imaginary limit necessary to talk basketball. It's pathetic. You complain I'm not acknowledging anything but you haven't given me anything to discuss. Meanwhile I've backed my claims with facts. I say he choked at the end of the NCAA Tournament(fact). I say he was inconsistent in the playoffs (fact). I say he was a turnover machine in that same Celtic series (fact). I say his numbers have slightly regressed (fact) this season. I say he reminds me of a lot of Baron Davis (opinion) because they are both athletic PGs who can penetrate and distribute but are subpar perimeter shooters. I believe neither to be worthy of Franchise status because to me neither can carry a team a title.


It took less than a half season before you take shots at whole careers.

:laugh: People need to realize that both Derrick Rose and Brandon Jennings were annointed the next Kings of the NBA during their rookie seasons and all I'm saying is I didn't buy it last season for Rose and I don't buy it for Jennings this season. They are not superstars. I also think I'm not the only one who sees it that way.

bleedo83
12-10-2009, 06:16 PM
eric gordon is the best guard from the 2008 draft

CQSox305
12-10-2009, 08:21 PM
Like a homer I jumped on the Rose bandwagon. From what I have seen from Jennings which isnt much he looks pretty legit.

Vinny642
12-10-2009, 08:28 PM
Sign me up on this thread.

Lizard King
12-10-2009, 08:40 PM
Lol Knicks.

chicago lulz
12-10-2009, 08:52 PM
I understand what OP is trying to say as far as the not jumping on bandwagons goes. Being a Chicago resident, I jumped on the Rose-wagon as soon as we drafted him. The thing with Rose is that he doesn't really have any good developmental coaches. Also, there isn't that killer instinct that a lot of All-Stars have. With little to no help from his supporting cast, and a horrible coach in VDN, I can understand why he isn't doing so well this year. I can give other reasons, but there is no point.

The fact is Rose isn't doing as well as last year. But you have to remember it's only been 20 games. Give him some time to develop, and maybe a decent coach to help him through. Randy Brown and Lindsey Hunter can only help so much. I feel it's too early in the season to say he's regressed as a player.

The reason people compare him to the likes of Paul, Williams, etc, is because he has the potential to reach their level, and if not, a level below them (which is still great in my book).

What I hate about a lot of PSD posters is they come to these conclusions so quickly. Everyone is in a rush to have these players become All-Stars or superstars so quickly. So if they have a good year, then people jump all over it. When they have a bad year, other people will jump all over it. (notice how I'm not singling out OP because a lot of posts in this thread are similar). I think it's a bit moronic to do so. Give these players some time. If by the end of the year, Rose is averaging lower numbers than last year (depending on the situation), and it continues on to the next, then it's time to worry.

People/fans need to be more patient.

nrvana
12-10-2009, 08:59 PM
we're still taking passengers aboard the Rodrigue Beaubois bandwagon =)

Bulls_fan90
12-10-2009, 09:06 PM
I bet if Derrick Rose was on the Knicks you would definitely consider him a francise player with superstar potential. I have heard that much about Gallinari, and he has nothing on Derrick Rose.

LOL the guy obviously has a hard on for that Italian bust. "This sweet shot by Danilo Gallinari at 9:33 of the second quarter marked the first field goal of the prized rookie's NBA career." :laugh::laugh::laugh:

KnicksorBust
12-10-2009, 09:22 PM
LOL the guy obviously has a hard on for that Italian bust. "This sweet shot by Danilo Gallinari at 9:33 of the second quarter marked the first field goal of the prized rookie's NBA career." :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Hi, I'm a Bulls fan and I have nothing intelligent to say.


Lol Knicks.

Hi, I'm a Bulls fan and I have nothing intelligent to say.


I understand what OP is trying to say as far as the not jumping on bandwagons goes. Being a Chicago resident, I jumped on the Rose-wagon as soon as we drafted him. The thing with Rose is that he doesn't really have any good developmental coaches. Also, there isn't that killer instinct that a lot of All-Stars have. With little to no help from his supporting cast, and a horrible coach in VDN, I can understand why he isn't doing so well this year. I can give other reasons, but there is no point.

The fact is Rose isn't doing as well as last year. But you have to remember it's only been 20 games. Give him some time to develop, and maybe a decent coach to help him through. Randy Brown and Lindsey Hunter can only help so much. I feel it's too early in the season to say he's regressed as a player.

The reason people compare him to the likes of Paul, Williams, etc, is because he has the potential to reach their level, and if not, a level below them (which is still great in my book).

What I hate about a lot of PSD posters is they come to these conclusions so quickly. Everyone is in a rush to have these players become All-Stars or superstars so quickly. So if they have a good year, then people jump all over it. When they have a bad year, other people will jump all over it. (notice how I'm not singling out OP because a lot of posts in this thread are similar). I think it's a bit moronic to do so. Give these players some time. If by the end of the year, Rose is averaging lower numbers than last year (depending on the situation), and it continues on to the next, then it's time to worry.

People/fans need to be more patient.

It's an interesting point about his lack of quality coaches. You look at some of the big men like Bynum and Howard who get former all-stars helping them and even they aren't at their full potential yet. I still disagree about how his career will play out but I would like to know what people think of me comparing him to Baron Davis.

1-800-STFU
12-10-2009, 09:29 PM
I think thats spot on pre-injury Baron. I think his upside CAN be higher but right now that is what I think of him.

kblo247
12-10-2009, 09:35 PM
I'll say it again.

Chicago should have drafted Mayo and Evans is the ROY.

TheKing23
12-10-2009, 09:54 PM
I'll say it again.

Chicago should have drafted Mayo and Evans is the ROY.

I think if Chicago had another shot at the number 1 pick knowing what they do now they would take Brook Lopez. He's everything they are missing right now and would form a fearsome frontcourt with Joakim Noah.

Not discrediting Rose but PG's like him are easier to come across (Brandon Jennings, Tyreke Evans, Russell Westbrook etc.) than a center with the physique and attributes Lopez has. Kirk Hinrich is still an extremely serviceable point as well.

PG: Kirk Hinrich
SG: John Salmons
SF: Luol Deng
PF: Joakim Noah
C: Brook Lopez

That's a solid, young starting five right there.

thornga2
12-10-2009, 10:39 PM
-Jennings said that the Knicks made a mistake by passing him up.
- So far he has backed it up.
- A Knicks fan isn't sold.

Hard to believe. How's Jordan Hill doing anyway? He's 2 years older than Jennings and making on real impact.

sofargone
12-10-2009, 10:50 PM
Can we start a "I never jumped on the BC bandwagon and I'm not jumping on the Turk or Derozan bandwagon"? I suppose that would be an equally compelling thread.
How was that necessary?

These two will be perennial all-stars, top ten NBA players in the coming years.

Jacob K.
12-10-2009, 11:38 PM
im on the jennings bandwagon, i dont even care

Draco
12-11-2009, 01:57 AM
When did I use Billups as proof of anything? He is just a representation of a status level that I don't believe Rose and Jennings can reach. "It's only 20 games..." so what? When are we allowed to look at his production and evaluate it? I mean you want to tell me he's not at 100% because of his ankle then fine but enough of this setting an imaginary limit necessary to talk basketball. It's pathetic. You complain I'm not acknowledging anything but you haven't given me anything to discuss. Meanwhile I've backed my claims with facts. I say he choked at the end of the NCAA Tournament(fact). I say he was inconsistent in the playoffs (fact). I say he was a turnover machine in that same Celtic series (fact). I say his numbers have slightly regressed (fact) this season. I say he reminds me of a lot of Baron Davis (opinion) because they are both athletic PGs who can penetrate and distribute but are subpar perimeter shooters. I believe neither to be worthy of Franchise status because to me neither can carry a team a title.



:laugh: People need to realize that both Derrick Rose and Brandon Jennings were annointed the next Kings of the NBA during their rookie seasons and all I'm saying is I didn't buy it last season for Rose and I don't buy it for Jennings this season. They are not superstars. I also think I'm not the only one who sees it that way.

The "facts" you've posted don't convincingly lead to the conclusion that Rose isn't a franchise player.. which is of course your opinion.

And you mentioned Billups in your first post....

/ridiculous thread.

Draco
12-11-2009, 01:59 AM
How was that necessary?

These two will be perennial all-stars, top ten NBA players in the coming years.

It wasn't.. which is why I didn't create that thread.

Stunner
12-11-2009, 02:13 AM
Dis **** is still goin on everybody its to early to tell y everybody carring about these players u guys are acting like they are going to pay u 2 back them up or sumtin. GO TO BED. All of these players will do good in the NBA. GOD, Rose judgement on him will be based off what happens next season if he gets another star, Evans and Jennings will be based on in year 3, CP3, D-WILL AND BILLUPS are good now doesnt matter when it happen they are great players in the NBA now!

Cool007
12-11-2009, 11:53 AM
For whatever it's worth, Rose is averaging close to 20ppg 7apg in his last 7 games - even with the crappy surroundings and in blowouts where he doesn't even play 4th qtrs much. Even with the stupidest coach coaching and no other star player to help him out nor a big man who can do anything to help him that Billups/Nash/CP3/Deron has always had... Billups had a luxury to play with Prime KG + Sheed, Nash had a luxury to play with Prime Dirk + Amare, CP3 with David West, Deron had a luxury to play with Okur + Boozer as their big men.

If Rose had any big men like that who can score from outside and inside, he would be sure-fire star right now. It's way easier and faster to develop when you have a big guy who can help.

Just keep things in the perspective instead of jumping onto conclusions - bangwagon jumpers.

GAWDtv
12-11-2009, 12:48 PM
You are bitter!! I pick Tyreke Evans as the ROY and his bandwagon is empty

Ethix11
12-11-2009, 01:31 PM
Tyreke Evans Bandwagon! FTW

WadeCounty
12-11-2009, 02:34 PM
I never jumped on their band wagon :D

chicago lulz
12-11-2009, 04:34 PM
Hi, I'm a Bulls fan and I have nothing intelligent to say.



Hi, I'm a Bulls fan and I have nothing intelligent to say.



It's an interesting point about his lack of quality coaches. You look at some of the big men like Bynum and Howard who get former all-stars helping them and even they aren't at their full potential yet. I still disagree about how his career will play out but I would like to know what people think of me comparing him to Baron Davis.

Oh, I have no problem with the Baron Davis comparison. I don't know if you stated your reasons as to why you think so, but I wouldn't take it as an insult regardless. I would like to hear your reasons though (and I'm asking this in a non-douchebag kind of way). And I agree with what you said about Bynum and Howard. And with guys like Devin Harris who had Avery Johnson coach them. I think that's what Derrick Rose needs. We'll just have to wait and see how his career pans out though. You may be right, you may be wrong. If you being right means Derrick being a Baron Davis (before his injuries or whatever), then I have no problem with that.

I just don't see how people jump to conclusions to quickly. I remember when Danilo got injured, people were calling him a busts and what not. It was some of the most idiotic things I've read, since he didn't even play a game, and he's obviously doing real well this year.

We shall see. For my sake, I hope Rose can get to the Paul, Williams level.

Tony_Starks
12-11-2009, 04:34 PM
This




Rose took the Bulls to the playoffs last year and lead his team to 7 games against the (then) world champs.


Jennings is the first rookie in over 30 years to put up 55 and has lead the Bucks back to respectability and more than likely the playoffs.

They're both future allstars.



but you're not sold........

IRUAM #21
12-11-2009, 05:29 PM
Tyreke Evans

Gators123
12-11-2009, 05:39 PM
Rose took the Bulls to the playoffs last year and lead his team to 7 games against the (then) world champs.



I'm Pretty sure Gordon was a huge part of that. Look at the bulls now without him.

chiitownkings
12-11-2009, 05:42 PM
Derrik Rose will be awesome. Just needs some better players around him. Also he's only 20. I have faith in him

ionndell8
12-11-2009, 05:48 PM
The only reason Rose looked good is because they had Ben Gordon on their team. They had a way better team last year, just look at the playoffs against Boston, with Gordon on the team and what he did i think made Rose a better player. Now that Gordon is gone, they will probably be in last place and back in the lottery the next 5 years because first of all i don't see any of next years free agents going to Chicago, because Chicago will suck again every year, Rose will start trouble now that they are losing again, Coach Vinny will be fired, and they will be lucky to get 19 wins this season.

Cool007
12-11-2009, 06:02 PM
The only reason Rose looked good is because they had Ben Gordon on their team. They had a way better team last year, just look at the playoffs against Boston, with Gordon on the team and what he did i think made Rose a better player. Now that Gordon is gone, they will probably be in last place and back in the lottery the next 5 years because first of all i don't see any of next years free agents going to Chicago, because Chicago will suck again every year, Rose will start trouble now that they are losing again, Coach Vinny will be fired, and they will be lucky to get 19 wins this season.


Wow!!! :facepalm:

KnicksorBust
12-12-2009, 01:22 PM
Oh, I have no problem with the Baron Davis comparison. I don't know if you stated your reasons as to why you think so, but I wouldn't take it as an insult regardless. I would like to hear your reasons though (and I'm asking this in a non-douchebag kind of way). And I agree with what you said about Bynum and Howard. And with guys like Devin Harris who had Avery Johnson coach them. I think that's what Derrick Rose needs. We'll just have to wait and see how his career pans out though. You may be right, you may be wrong. If you being right means Derrick being a Baron Davis (before his injuries or whatever), then I have no problem with that.

I just don't see how people jump to conclusions to quickly. I remember when Danilo got injured, people were calling him a busts and what not. It was some of the most idiotic things I've read, since he didn't even play a game, and he's obviously doing real well this year.

We shall see. For my sake, I hope Rose can get to the Paul, Williams level.

Agree to disagree.


This




Rose took the Bulls to the playoffs last year and lead his team to 7 games against the (then) world champs.


Jennings is the first rookie in over 30 years to put up 55 and has lead the Bucks back to respectability and more than likely the playoffs.

They're both future allstars.



but you're not sold........

Leading the Bulls huh? Was he leading them in game 2 with his 10 points on 5 of 11 with zero free throw attempts? Or was he leading them in Game 3 with his 9 points on 4 for 14 shooting, 1 of 3 from the FT , and 7 turnovers? Maybe you mean game 5 where he had 6 turnovers, 5 personal fouls and shot 7 for 16 from the field with zero free throw attempts? Rose had an incredible game 1 and a very strong game 4 (despite 7 turnovers). He and Salmons were co-heroes of Game 6 and then he had a mediocre game 7 when it mattered most. By my calculations he won them 2 games and lost them 3. He played a combined 123 minutes and 7 seconds in games 2, 5, and 7 and shot a total of ZERO FREE THROWS! That's outrageous. That's not a franchise player. It's just not.

Jennings brought the Bucks back to respectibility? Maybe for the first 11 games of the season. Despite their seeding in the pathetic eastern conference they are 2-8 in their last 10 and he's shooting about 35%. When they finish the season with about 37 wins and miss the playoffs come talk to me.

drobe86
12-12-2009, 01:44 PM
You gotta be kidding me. Rose and Jennings are suds, and will be future all stars. IDk where the hate is coming from but I wonder if you people watch the games sometimes...

drobe86
12-12-2009, 02:01 PM
To the guy who started this thread..... Explain this to me so Rose and Jennings won't be superstars but Gallinari will?

drama1386
12-12-2009, 02:25 PM
Agree to disagree.



Leading the Bulls huh? Was he leading them in game 2 with his 10 points on 5 of 11 with zero free throw attempts? Or was he leading them in Game 3 with his 9 points on 4 for 14 shooting, 1 of 3 from the FT , and 7 turnovers? Maybe you mean game 5 where he had 6 turnovers, 5 personal fouls and shot 7 for 16 from the field with zero free throw attempts? Rose had an incredible game 1 and a very strong game 4 (despite 7 turnovers). He and Salmons were co-heroes of Game 6 and then he had a mediocre game 7 when it mattered most. By my calculations he won them 2 games and lost them 3. He played a combined 123 minutes and 7 seconds in games 2, 5, and 7 and shot a total of ZERO FREE THROWS! That's outrageous. That's not a franchise player. It's just not.

Jennings brought the Bucks back to respectibility? Maybe for the first 11 games of the season. Despite their seeding in the pathetic eastern conference they are 2-8 in their last 10 and he's shooting about 35%. When they finish the season with about 37 wins and miss the playoffs come talk to me.

wow. a knicks fan questioning the respectability of an organization? when was the last time the knicks were respectable? :confused:

Chronz
12-12-2009, 02:43 PM
Wrong time to make this thread buddy, Chi fans are annoying but Rose's play of late has humbled them. But yes he got too much pub for his mediocre playoff series.

Chi City23
12-12-2009, 02:43 PM
Leading the Bulls huh? Was he leading them in game 2 with his 10 points on 5 of 11 with zero free throw attempts? Or was he leading them in Game 3 with his 9 points on 4 for 14 shooting, 1 of 3 from the FT , and 7 turnovers? Maybe you mean game 5 where he had 6 turnovers, 5 personal fouls and shot 7 for 16 from the field with zero free throw attempts? Rose had an incredible game 1 and a very strong game 4 (despite 7 turnovers). He and Salmons were co-heroes of Game 6 and then he had a mediocre game 7 when it mattered most. By my calculations he won them 2 games and lost them 3. He played a combined 123 minutes and 7 seconds in games 2, 5, and 7 and shot a total of ZERO FREE THROWS! That's outrageous. That's not a franchise player. It's just not.

:laugh2: wow!!! you do realize he was a 19yr old ROOKIE right? AND he was playing against one of the better defensive teams. I'm not saying Rose is or should be an Allstar at this moment but everything about him says he could and should be.

MGB
12-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Agree to disagree.



Leading the Bulls huh? Was he leading them in game 2 with his 10 points on 5 of 11 with zero free throw attempts? Or was he leading them in Game 3 with his 9 points on 4 for 14 shooting, 1 of 3 from the FT , and 7 turnovers? Maybe you mean game 5 where he had 6 turnovers, 5 personal fouls and shot 7 for 16 from the field with zero free throw attempts? Rose had an incredible game 1 and a very strong game 4 (despite 7 turnovers). He and Salmons were co-heroes of Game 6 and then he had a mediocre game 7 when it mattered most. By my calculations he won them 2 games and lost them 3. He played a combined 123 minutes and 7 seconds in games 2, 5, and 7 and shot a total of ZERO FREE THROWS! That's outrageous. That's not a franchise player. It's just not.

Jennings brought the Bucks back to respectibility? Maybe for the first 11 games of the season. Despite their seeding in the pathetic eastern conference they are 2-8 in their last 10 and he's shooting about 35%. When they finish the season with about 37 wins and miss the playoffs come talk to me.

As has been already mentioned, you're pointing out how Rose was only the star of a couple playoff games, but how many playoff games do most future franchise PG's star in?

You're basically knocking him for not being a franchise all world point guard during his rookie season after coming into the league with just 1 year of college ball. It's widely recognized that PG is one of if not THE most difficult transition to make coming into the NBA.

edit: Rose probably has another good 2-3 years before he can really be judged. Take this season and next and he's still only where CP3 was during his rookie year...

MJ-BULLS
12-12-2009, 02:58 PM
rose is still a real young player people, all he needs is some better pieces around him and a good coaching staff that can use rose to his strengths he hasn't rally played good this year do to horrible coaching this year.

PurpleJesus
12-12-2009, 03:09 PM
they are twenty year old players playing the hardest position in the league, and they have shown tremendous ability, so right now I would say they are closer to being stars in the league than not being stars.

KnicksorBust
12-12-2009, 03:59 PM
To the guy who started this thread..... Explain this to me so Rose and Jennings won't be superstars but Gallinari will?

When did I say that? Just making things up as we go?

I think Rose is better than Jennings. I just don't think either will be a franchise player and after having to read all this stuff about how Rose was amazing last year I'm getting a little satisfaction about being right that he's just very good but not elite. This season I see all the Jennings hype and I'm just throwing it out there that I think it's garbage. He had a hot start and now he's already hitting a wall. Obviously I don't think either one is a bum and I'd take them both on my team in a heartbeat, I just think the hype was out of control.


wow. a knicks fan questioning the respectability of an organization? when was the last time the knicks were respectable? :confused:

Rspectable 2004. Good 2001. So since my favorite team hasn't been good in a while I should switch teams or not be allowed to have an opinion? What's your point here? :laugh: Not my style.



:laugh2: wow!!! you do realize he was a 19yr old ROOKIE right? AND he was playing against one of the better defensive teams. I'm not saying Rose is or should be an Allstar at this moment but everything about him says he could and should be.

I think he'll make some All-Star teams too.


As has been already mentioned, you're pointing out how Rose was only the star of a couple playoff games, but how many playoff games do most future franchise PG's star in?

You're basically knocking him for not being a franchise all world point guard during his rookie season after coming into the league with just 1 year of college ball. It's widely recognized that PG is one of if not THE most difficult transition to make coming into the NBA.

edit: Rose probably has another good 2-3 years before he can really be judged. Take this season and next and he's still only where CP3 was during his rookie year...

I'm not really knocking him if you read carefully. I'm just pointing out things that I've seen from games that I've watched that lead me to believe he's not a star. Neither one has their team over .500 right now and yet people still think they are the next elite players of the league. Well guess what? Those people are ****ing wrong.

Tony_Starks
12-12-2009, 04:16 PM
When did I say that? Just making things up as we go?

I think Rose is better than Jennings. I just don't think either will be a franchise player and after having to read all this stuff about how Rose was amazing last year I'm getting a little satisfaction about being right that he's just very good but not elite. This season I see all the Jennings hype and I'm just throwing it out there that I think it's garbage. He had a hot start and now he's already hitting a wall. Obviously I don't think either one is a bum and I'd take them both on my team in a heartbeat, I just think the hype was out of control.



Rspectable 2004. Good 2001. So since my favorite team hasn't been good in a while I should switch teams or not be allowed to have an opinion? What's your point here? :laugh: Not my style.




I think he'll make some All-Star teams too.



I'm not really knocking him if you read carefully. I'm just pointing out things that I've seen from games that I've watched that lead me to believe he's not a star. Neither one has their team over .500 right now and yet people still think they are the next elite players of the league. Well guess what? Those people are ****ing wrong.



I find it ironic how you left out his total dominance of game 1 of that series. Also you forgot about the block on Rondo, I believe it was game 6, to win the game in OT. As others have mentioned, this was being done by a rookie. If you're going to knock him for every mistake at least give him his props on the other side of the ball.

As far as Jennings presently, as we sit, they're in the playoffs. If you want to speculate and say they won't make it thats fine, but that is speculation. Im giving facts. Fact is he's putting up 20 a night. Fact is people are actually talking about the bucks for the 1st time since Ray Allen was on the team. These are facts.

If you personally don't think these guys are as good as everybody else seems to believe then I respect your opinion. I so happen to think they are franchise changing players soon to be on Chris Paul and D Williams level.

vash9
12-12-2009, 07:02 PM
i never jumped on either of the bandwagons, but i think they are both solid players.

Rose is a beast, but not really high on him.

Jennings would have been a great Nets player considering we almost drafted him, but not too high on him neither.