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View Full Version : When guys say they have never played with an allstar.



JordansBulls
12-01-2009, 04:44 PM
I just don't get this? Why do many players say this? They may never play with allstars because they themselves are taking up at least 1/4 of the salary of the team.

I remember when people use to always say Kevin Garnett never had any talent on his teams. However didn't he take a 6 year deal worth $120 million in 1999?

How do you expect to get talent on your team when you are making $15-20 million yourself?

I can understand once you have a title contender asking for that much, but if you are on a mediocore team why ask for that much when you know it will be virtually impossible to get another star on your team?


I don't remember Shaq's deal with the Lakers initially but I believe his 1st year with them he was getting around 10 million a year. And then signed an extension IIRC after he won titles in which he began to make 20+ million a year. Once you know you are on a team good enough to win it all then that is when you should ask for the big bucks otherwise why complain when taking up most of the salary?

bigsams50
12-01-2009, 04:48 PM
But if thats the case then how could a team afford KG Pierce and Allen

sp1derm00
12-01-2009, 05:56 PM
I just don't get this? Why do many players say this? They may never play with allstars because they themselves are taking up at least 1/4 of the salary of the team.

I remember when people use to always say Kevin Garnett never had any talent on his teams. However didn't he take a 6 year deal worth $120 million in 1999?

How do you expect to get talent on your team when you are making $15-20 million yourself?

I can understand once you have a title contender asking for that much, but if you are on a mediocore team why ask for that much when you know it will be virtually impossible to get another star on your team?


I don't remember Shaq's deal with the Lakers initially but I believe his 1st year with them he was getting around 10 million a year. And then signed an extension IIRC after he won titles in which he began to make 20+ million a year. Once you know you are on a team good enough to win it all then that is when you should ask for the big bucks otherwise why complain when taking up most of the salary?


I agree with you on the notion that players should definitely not make the $15-20m in salary until they have at least contended for the title. Taking (or paying out) big money before getting a team together that can compete is not good for the team and speaks worlds about how much you really want to win.

sp1derm00
12-01-2009, 06:02 PM
But if thats the case then how could a team afford KG Pierce and Allen

The Celtics wouldn't have KG Pierce and Allen if they weren't in the decline of their careers.

PP: 20m
Ray Allen: 20m
KG: 16.5m

I believe those 3 in salary alone puts the team over the salary cap.

A team would normally not be able to accomplish this, but thanks to trades, they got PP 2 All-Stars to play with.

Chronz
12-02-2009, 05:12 AM
We cant fault players for getting what they are worth, your essentially saying KG should take a paycut for the ignorance of his management. Imagine that conversation, Hey KG I know your worth so much more than this, but I kind of maxed out on Wally Sczerbiak... so yea. Its not like KG couldnt have gotten Wins and the money, even though often times players fail to pay attention to how the salary cap works.

Players should absolutely be more conscious about how their salary effects managements ability to put players around them. And to his credit KG did in fact take a paycut so his team could bring more support on board. Sadly KG wouldve been better off keeping his money cuz those players lasted 1 season. Just gos to show why they should look out for themselves first and foremost.

I think your wrong about Shaq, I remember the Lakers had to break the bank to get him. It may have been 10M, but 10M in 96 or whenever it was, probably takes up more cap space than 10M does now.

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 05:37 AM
JB, you pose a good and legit question.

Gibby23
12-02-2009, 11:26 AM
We cant fault players for getting what they are worth, your essentially saying KG should take a paycut for the ignorance of his management. Imagine that conversation, Hey KG I know your worth so much more than this, but I kind of maxed out on Wally Sczerbiak... so yea. Its not like KG couldnt have gotten Wins and the money, even though often times players fail to pay attention to how the salary cap works.

Players should absolutely be more conscious about how their salary effects managements ability to put players around them. And to his credit KG did in fact take a paycut so his team could bring more support on board. Sadly KG wouldve been better off keeping his money cuz those players lasted 1 season. Just gos to show why they should look out for themselves first and foremost.

I think your wrong about Shaq, I remember the Lakers had to break the bank to get him. It may have been 10M, but 10M in 96 or whenever it was, probably takes up more cap space than 10M does now.
He is wrong about Shaq. The Lakers gave him a 7 year deal for 121 million. That is an average of 17.2 million a year. That was alot back then, and still is.

superkegger
12-02-2009, 11:30 AM
Just out of curiosity, what players have we heard complain about their supporting casts other than the now infamous Kobe lil ***** tirade?

I really can't think of any off the top of my head to be honest...maybe I don't read enough though...

td0tsfinest
12-02-2009, 12:24 PM
Duncan took a paycut to win championships. I don't know why more stars do that. I guess Cash does rule everything around us.

KnicksorBust
12-02-2009, 12:27 PM
If I was KG and you told me "Here's $120 million and you won't win a ring with us. Or here's a $100 million and there's chance we use that money properly and get you a ring." I'm taking the extra $20 million. No hesitation.

JordansBulls
12-02-2009, 12:33 PM
Just out of curiosity, what players have we heard complain about their supporting casts other than the now infamous Kobe lil ***** tirade?

I really can't think of any off the top of my head to be honest...maybe I don't read enough though...

Garnett, Pierce are some guys that came to mind. I used Garnett because he was constantly the highest paid guy in the league and when he got that contract IIRC in 1999 for 6 years at 120 million he in no way or shape deserved that.

oshea225
12-02-2009, 01:02 PM
If I was KG and you told me "Here's $120 million and you won't win a ring with us. Or here's a $100 million and there's chance we use that money properly and get you a ring." I'm taking the extra $20 million. No hesitation.

but why? honestly wth are you gonna do with all that money? no ones needs that much. people can live comfortably with 200,000 a year. why would you need that much? if i was a legitimate star nba player, i wouldnt want more than 2 mill a year. bring in some talent so i can win. im winning, im making 2 mill a year, im a star in the nba. life's pretty damn good that way. theres no need for all that extra stuff. 20 mill a year? who needs it?

superkegger
12-02-2009, 01:11 PM
Garnett, Pierce are some guys that came to mind. I used Garnett because he was constantly the highest paid guy in the league and when he got that contract IIRC in 1999 for 6 years at 120 million he in no way or shape deserved that.

KG was what, 20 when he signed that deal?

Can you blame him, at all? If when you were 20 someone dropped 120 million in your lap, would you have thought, hold on, is this going to cripple the teams salary cap, and our future ability to sign players for me to play with to win a championship? I doubt it. Every single one of us would have taken the 120 million, without a doubt.

As for Pierce, he did complain about it now that you mention it, but he was quite justified. His teams sucked major ***. To his credit, he also only missed significant time in 06-07 in the durant/oden tank off, when he was also legitimately hurt. He never walked out on his team, and even when they were terrible the season before when he had Ricky Davis, Wally, Mark Blount and Raef to work with, he played his *** off, even when it didn't matter because the talent around him was talentless.

Anyway.

I think for some guys, winning isn't always the main focus when they start their career. They want 3 things, money, recognition as a top tier player, and to win. Once they get that recognition, and the money along with it, then winning probably becomes more central. Sometimes after getting that recognition and money, some guys kinda think they're set and winning isn't that big of a deal.

It sounds simple, but how you're paid is the measure of your worth. And these guys want their peers to know that they're the top dog, and the amount your paid is a pretty easy way to look at that. Which has long become a problem in the NBA. The selfish, I need to get my recognition as the best, as well as win, just don't mesh that well.

Which is partly why I don't get Kobe sometimes. He says he wants to do nothing other than win. Which is crap, since if that were true, he wouldn't also be waiting to sign an extension to become the highest paid player in the NBA. It's not like he needs the money, at all. But it's like the NBA dick size contest. My contract is this big, I must be important. My contract is bigger than yours, who's the man now. You'd think at 29-31 year olds would be like, oh, do I really need 23 million dollars this year? If I took a 10 million dollar pay cut, what options would that allow this ball club to do? We could sign someone who would help us win it all.

/rant

oshea225
12-02-2009, 01:23 PM
KG was what, 20 when he signed that deal?

Can you blame him, at all? If when you were 20 someone dropped 120 million in your lap, would you have thought, hold on, is this going to cripple the teams salary cap, and our future ability to sign players for me to play with to win a championship? I doubt it. Every single one of us would have taken the 120 million, without a doubt.

As for Pierce, he did complain about it now that you mention it, but he was quite justified. His teams sucked major ***. To his credit, he also only missed significant time in 06-07 in the durant/oden tank off, when he was also legitimately hurt. He never walked out on his team, and even when they were terrible the season before when he had Ricky Davis, Wally, Mark Blount and Raef to work with, he played his *** off, even when it didn't matter because the talent around him was talentless.

Anyway.

I think for some guys, winning isn't always the main focus when they start their career. They want 3 things, money, recognition as a top tier player, and to win. Once they get that recognition, and the money along with it, then winning probably becomes more central. Sometimes after getting that recognition and money, some guys kinda think they're set and winning isn't that big of a deal.

It sounds simple, but how you're paid is the measure of your worth. And these guys want their peers to know that they're the top dog, and the amount your paid is a pretty easy way to look at that. Which has long become a problem in the NBA. The selfish, I need to get my recognition as the best, as well as win, just don't mesh that well.

Which is partly why I don't get Kobe sometimes. He says he wants to do nothing other than win. Which is crap, since if that were true, he wouldn't also be waiting to sign an extension to become the highest paid player in the NBA. It's not like he needs the money, at all. But it's like the NBA dick size contest. My contract is this big, I must be important. My contract is bigger than yours, who's the man now. You'd think at 29-31 year olds would be like, oh, do I really need 23 million dollars this year? If I took a 10 million dollar pay cut, what options would that allow this ball club to do? We could sign someone who would help us win it all.

/rant

honestly, at 17, i would decline the 120 million. i know the paycut is gonna help me win, and thats what i would want. given, id still have to be somewhat jealous, if you even wanna call it that, and take like 2 mill (this is assuming im a star and everything, someone "worthy" of 120 mill).

and i completely agree with that second part i bolded, thats how i feel. i get it, moneys nice. but personally i think its overrated. no one needs that much. sure, get enough to live pretty luxuriously, but im more concerned about the rings than the bling

HiphopRelated
12-02-2009, 01:37 PM
A good front office finds a way, a sh1tty front office makes excuses.

Who has won a title without a max contract? Detroit?

kEviN21
12-02-2009, 01:46 PM
KG was calling out overpaid teammates such as Wally ;)

Ray_R
12-02-2009, 02:42 PM
Just out of curiosity, what players have we heard complain about their supporting casts other than the now infamous Kobe lil ***** tirade?

I really can't think of any off the top of my head to be honest...maybe I don't read enough though...

out the top of my head i cant really think of anyone either but i feel there are a lot of players that feel that way one probally wade maybe CP3. but they arent much of a complainer

ChiSox219
12-02-2009, 03:10 PM
if i was kg and you told me "here's $120 million and you won't win a ring with us. Or here's a $100 million and there's chance we use that money properly and get you a ring." i'm taking the extra $20 million. No hesitation.

+1

b_russ
12-02-2009, 03:27 PM
Just out of curiosity, what players have we heard complain about their supporting casts other than the now infamous Kobe lil ***** tirade?

I really can't think of any off the top of my head to be honest...maybe I don't read enough though...

source (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/02/27/weekly.countdown/index.html)

This an interview with McGooter in SI. You can read the whole thing but just make sure you read this:


He smiled when asked if he ever found himself questioning what separated him from the champions of his era.

"I haven't been the guy who's been fortunate enough to play with Shaq, to play with Tim Duncan. I always seem to have average teams,'' he said. "You take me back in my Orlando days with Shaq? Come on, there are no questions. You take a healthy me and switch me out with Paul Pierce [on the current Celtics]? There's no question. There's definitely no question.''
reminded McGrady of a previous conversation we had years ago, when Garnett was being criticized for his failure to win in the playoffs with Minnesota. "I remember that,'' McGrady said. Then he shifted our talk to Garnett's championship with the Celtics last season.

"I don't know if you remember this,'' McGrady said. "But when they won the championship, he had the hat like this [turned sideways] and he looked into the camera and he was like, What are you going to say now? That's what he said. That was about all that criticism that he was taking, and now he was letting everybody know: What are you going to say now? Because you can't say it now -- I'm the best, I'm on the best team in the league.''

I Watching the Celtics celebrate on television after his arthroscopic surgery last spring, McGrady swallowed Garnett's message as if it were a personal greeting to him to not give up.