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View Full Version : Which case of a Legend being robbed from the game, do you find most severe?



Chronz
11-30-2009, 05:38 PM
It happens atleast once a decade, a potentially historical shattering player is lost..... which did you find to be most disheartening?


BY ERAS......



50's-60's

OK so Im reading The Rivalry and they talk about this behemoth of a man with the athleticism to match it. He was either too big or too quick for everyone in the league. He was among the first to break the color barrier, the rebounding champ Russell's rookie year, made an All-NBA Team every year, a HOF, and the first black Rookie of the Year. His career was cut short due to a debilitating fall in the last game of the regular season. Oddly enough the man was able to get a double double in a playoff match (an off game), it wasnt till a few days after that the injury really begin to show its symptoms. He spent the rest of his life a paraplegic, and died of a heart attack not long thereafter. His name was Maurice Stokes.

What could've been;
This was such a different time that the historical context of things are bit fuzzy but heres what I can gather. Assuming Stokes stayed with the team (which is a pretty sure fire bet at the time) it would be 3 seasons before the time Big O joined. At which point he wouldve been 27, the prime of his career and in the ensuing years playing with Big O at the peak of his powers. You dont think that 7 game series against the Celtics tips in their favor now? If the Royals win even 1 championship that changes the fortune of 2 franchises and 2 of the games 8 or so best players. Bill Russell and Kareem (Big O probably stays put and in winning finally earns the respect he deserved).






70's

Bill Walton - This should not come as a surprise to anyone. Big Red Pothead was lost to injury year after year. As a result we had finals with two mid 40 win teams, the uninteresting era of the 70's and if not for the merger, wouldve surely killed the league.

What could've been;
In the prime of his career he couldve been the Russell to Kareems Wilt, the era suddenly doesnt need Magic/Bird to save it, but I see no reason why they dont raise the games popularity to greater heights.






80's

Len Bias - Coke killed him, the equivalent of a SF version of Michael Jordan or poor mans current Bron, at the very least another Dominique Wilkens type talent added to Larry Bird's Celtics. Thats like the Lakers getting Worthy while already possessing a championship squad, you know how that turned out.

What could've been;
The Celtics remained competitive regardless, but they maxed out the HOF'ers. A healthy Bias to carry the load keeps Larry and McHale from rushing back too soon from their injuries. Prolongs their window of opportunity another half decade. We miss out on some classic Bulls-Celtics ECF's and the East of the 90's is strengthened.






Late 80's - Early 90's
Arvydas Sabonis - Ive already gone to great lengths explaining my hard on for Sabonis game. So I wont write too much here but even if we were to say hes overhyped, at the very least hes an All-Star Center, and dominant big for sure joining a team that most definitely couldve used his presence. Thats like adding Ewing in his prime to a team that already made the Finals without him. I think Ive said enough, we all know how well MJ's Bulls did against dominant C's.





MID 90's- Early 00's

Grant Hill & Penny Hardaway

Dont need to rehash, its still fresh in our minds. But what makes it hard with Penny is that he repeatedly tried to come back at different phases of his career and it effected his decision to leave to Phoenix. If he stays in his peak form he probably stays in Orlando so that alters Kidd's legacy. At the same time Orlando lands Grant Hill because Penny is no longer on the team, perhaps they keep Penny and sign Hill, leaving Tmac to sign in Miami. It really gets twisted when you start thinking too much about it so I just let it go. We all know what they meant considering it was like yesterday.


2000's

Alonzo Mourning - Our generation has generally consisted of bits and pieces of great players being taken away, and not so much of any 1 players entire career. Tmac and Grant Hill, Vince Carter, Yao. Its hard to say which is least a result of their own doing and their strengths as players, but losing Alonzo at the peak of his career to a kidney problem is pretty unfortunate IMO.

Its not like Zo never had a chance to win he was 30 when it all began crumbling down, but its more like the timing in which his absence came. I liken it to Willis Reed (Honorable Mention) being lost to injuries. Zo absence came at a time when the East was totally up for grabs and lacking a true contending team.

GoatMilk
11-30-2009, 05:41 PM
i think it's Bill Walton with Bias second only because we dont know how good he would have been for sure.

i mean yeah he was probably going to be awesome in the NBA, but we never know.

Walton at least showed us what he can do when healthy

Lakersfan2483
11-30-2009, 05:42 PM
The Len Bias situation has stuck out the most to me, imagine if he had not died? His death set back the Boston franchise for quite some time.

Faneik
11-30-2009, 05:44 PM
Len Bias , I'm a Celtics fan.

Jay Williams deserves some consideration for this kind of topic.

bigsams50
11-30-2009, 05:46 PM
Len Bias. Kid had potential. I hate to see a guys life end the way his did

blackjack_119
11-30-2009, 05:48 PM
It's Bill Walton. He was the most dominant player in the game on an extremely young and equally balanced team that had already won a championship despite their youth. The Blazers would have been a dynasty had Walton remained healthy.

sofargone
11-30-2009, 05:49 PM
len bias

abe_froman
11-30-2009, 05:49 PM
The Len Bias situation has stuck out the most to me, imagine if he had not died? His death set back the Boston franchise for quite some time.

that is a myth.did bias dying keep them from picking good players in drafts(keeping them) after his death,did it keep them from trades or pursuing free agents? no

bias dying didnt set them back,bad management did(i know its unpopular to say but it needs to be said/is true)

Faneik
11-30-2009, 05:51 PM
European bias but, Drazen Petrovic also deserves some consideration.

jetsfan28
11-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Sabonis was so, so good. I still think he would have been a top 3 center in a league with some great ones, and would have won some titles. We also saw he could play in the NBA, unlike Bias (plenty of great prospects, even Bias-esque, have been busts).

Chronz
11-30-2009, 05:54 PM
European bias but, Drazen Petrovic also deserves some consideration.

About as much as Antonio McDyess does. Drazen was a great shooter but outside of that he wasnt really landscape altering.

Faneik
11-30-2009, 05:58 PM
About as much as Antonio McDyess does. Drazen was a great shooter but outside of that he wasnt really landscape altering.

He was a huge loss to the game in my eyes.

Like I said, I'm biased. He's a legend in Europe.

Chronz
11-30-2009, 05:59 PM
We're not all from Europe, but we should ALL be fans of the GAME.

JordansBulls
11-30-2009, 05:59 PM
Bill Walton clearly. He would be in the battle with the other 5 great centers for the greatest center ever.

Also the Celtics shouldn't had gotten that pick anyway. They were already the champions in 1986 and an elite team. Why the hell should a team with the best record in the league have a top 3 pick in the draft?

That would have been like the Bulls getting Jason Kidd in the 1994 draft or Alonzo Mourning in the 1992 draft.

sportscrazy34
11-30-2009, 06:05 PM
He was a huge loss to the game in my eyes.

Like I said, I'm biased. He's a legend in Europe.

I don't think your biased at all, Drazen was the first guy I thought of when i read the title thread. He would easily get my vote.

Chronz
11-30-2009, 06:09 PM
Are you also European?

Faneik
11-30-2009, 06:15 PM
Are you also European?

So if anyone thinks Petrovic's premature death was a huge loss to the game of basketball must be European, huh?

Please...You're better than that.

Don't be so sensitive just because we mentioned a guy that wasn't on your list.

Chronz
11-30-2009, 06:22 PM
So if anyone thinks Petrovic's premature death was a huge loss to the game of basketball must be European, huh?
No, I never said he wasnt a huge loss, anyone who dies prematurely is a huge loss in the world to somebody. But in regards to how his loss impacted the NBA, hes not in that company. He helped globalize the game, but he wasnt a franchise cornerstone. Honorable mention, yes. But to mention him in the class of a prospect like Bill Walton is to undermine more deserving players. I mean Arvydas not playing in the NBA wouldve had the same influence, only greater because he had a legit chance at winning a championship and was an All-League caliber player.


Please...You're better than that.
Thank you, I am.


Don't be so sensitive just because we mentioned a guy that wasn't on your list.

Im all for it, I welcome it. It allows me to have these friendly encounters.

sportscrazy34
11-30-2009, 06:29 PM
Are you also European?

100% American born and raised. Drazen was on his way to stardom when he lost his life. His work ethic was second to none and he was fearless.

Jordan's thoughts on the guy

It was a thrill to play against Drazen. Every time we competed, he competed with an aggressive attitude. He wasn't nervous; he came at me as hard as I came at him. So, we've had some great battles in the past and unfortunately, they were short battles.

Faneik
11-30-2009, 06:31 PM
No, I never said he wasnt a huge loss, anyone who dies prematurely is a huge loss in the world to somebody. But in regards to how his loss impacted the NBA, hes not in that company. He helped globalize the game, but he wasnt a franchise cornerstone. Honorable mention, yes. But to mention him in the class of a prospect like Bill Walton is to undermine more deserving players. I mean Arvydas not playing in the NBA wouldve had the same influence, only greater because he had a legit chance at winning a championship and was an All-League caliber player.


Thank you, I am.


Im all for it, I welcome it. It allows me to have these friendly encounters.


I had the feeling you knew nothing about Petrovic's career, now I'm sure.

He wasn't all-league caliber?

1993 (the year he died):

- 22.3 points/game - 11th best in the league
- all-nba 3rd team
- lead all guards in FG% - 52%

Chronz
11-30-2009, 06:45 PM
I had the feeling you knew nothing about Petrovic's career, now I'm sure.

He wasn't all-league caliber?

1993 (the year he died):

- 22.3 points/game - 11th best in the league
- all-nba 3rd team
- lead all guards in FG% - 52%

No he wasnt All-League caliber, Im speaking in terms of relative value. Players across eras have different circumstances and competition for the actual spot on the team. Arvydas was potentially on the same platform as a young David Robinson, most likely Ewings. Even as an old man on his last legs, he was able to sport per minute/ per possession #'s that HOF'ers put up. Granted it came in less than 30MPG, but its like getting a window into the kind of player he couldve been.

Drazen on the other hand did little to impact the game besides shooting. The year he died, his team won more games. Sounds like a dick thing to say, but it expresses the kind impact he really had. Yes the team wouldve been better off with him around, thats not the point so I hope your not going there, but overall you take a guy like that off the team and you expect the team to miss his presence.

If you want to compare All-League statistics, you'll find that Drazens fall way short to the norm. One of the reasons people overrate Reggie Miller is the same for Drazen. He stood above his peers, in a weak era for his position. Like Vince Carter at his worst was a better player than Drazen at his best, and Vince would have no individual accolade to showcase for it, but Drazen would. Thats what I mean when I say hes not All-League caliber.

subroc
11-30-2009, 06:47 PM
Walton...what a GREAT passing center...

ko8e24
11-30-2009, 06:48 PM
this is a very good thread indeed. :clap:

Faneik
11-30-2009, 06:51 PM
No he wasnt All-League caliber, Im speaking in terms of relative value. Players across eras have different circumstances and competition for the actual spot on the team. Arvydas was potentially on the same platform as a young David Robinson, most likely Ewings. Even as an old man on his last legs, he was able to sport per minute/ per possession #'s that HOF'ers put up. Granted it came in less than 30MPG, but its like getting a window into the kind of player he couldve been.

Drazen on the other hand did little to impact the game besides shooting. The year he died, his team won more games. Sounds like a dick thing to say, but it expresses the kind impact he really had. Yes the team wouldve been better off with him around, thats not the point so I hope your not going there, but overall you take a guy like that off the team and you expect the team to miss his presence.

If you want to compare All-League statistics, you'll find that Drazens fall way short to the norm. One of the reasons people overrate Reggie Miller is the same for Drazen. He stood above his peers, in a weak era for his position. Like Vince Carter at his worst was a better player than Drazen at his best, and Vince would have no individual accolade to showcase for it, but Drazen would. Thats what I mean when I say hes not All-League caliber.

22.3 pts/game he was a great efficient scorer.

All-NBA 3rd Team: this means he was a top 6 guard at the time.

He is in the Hall of Fame. I rest my case.

jetsfan28
11-30-2009, 06:58 PM
Petrovic was a nice player. But he wasn't remotely close to Sabonis, Walton, and Hill.



Another interesting one no one mentions is Artest. He missed a season and a half of his career as he was entering his prime looking like a star for what was at the time arguably the best team in the league. No way to really measure just how much missing that season and a half and dealing with the other ramifications of the Palace brawl, as well as his other personal problems, hurt him. I know he didn't miss as much time as those guys, but the time he missed was very impactful.

DCS
11-30-2009, 07:02 PM
Other - Earl Manigault.

Faneik
11-30-2009, 07:04 PM
Petrovic was a nice player. But he wasn't remotely close to Sabonis, Walton, and Hill.



Another interesting one no one mentions is Artest. He missed a season and a half of his career as he was entering his prime looking like a star for what was at the time arguably the best team in the league. No way to really measure just how much missing that season and a half and dealing with the other ramifications of the Palace brawl, as well as his other personal problems, hurt him. I know he didn't miss as much time as those guys, but the time he missed was very impactful.


This isn't about who was the better player. I'm not comparing them. I wouldn't compare a guard with some centers, that's for sure. You can do it, but I won't get into that.

All I'm saying is that Petrovic deserved some consideration on a topic like this. Nothing more, nothing less.

abe_froman
11-30-2009, 07:22 PM
some guys to think about:

jay williams
connie hawkins
ron harper
ralph sampson
bernard king
danny manning

AddiX
11-30-2009, 07:32 PM
No Reggie Lewis?

I gotta go with Grant Hill, he was so damn good. Theres not many players in the league now or ever who had the complete game the way he did. Guy did it all. Seeing Penny fall from the top was pretty damn sad too.

RaiderLakersA's
11-30-2009, 07:41 PM
I have no sympathy for anyone whose general stupidity led to their demise. Sorry.

bctgg27
11-30-2009, 08:07 PM
It's definitely Stokes. His numbers his rookie year were incredible. Many thought he would be one of the greatest players of all time.

Iodine
11-30-2009, 08:11 PM
Walton
Stokes





everyone else

Shady66
11-30-2009, 08:13 PM
In my opinion, Grant Hill.

His last great season before he got injured he was averaging 26, 7 and 5.

He was a mix of Kobe and Lebron, better shooter than Lebron, and most of the offencive moves of Kobe. He had a great all around offencive game. Was also pretty good defenciely, and was overall a great player. I just wish he had more of a chance to shine in Orlando. Even now we still see glimpses of the old grant hill, at 37 years old.

kinnikuman24
11-30-2009, 08:34 PM
penny and grant only because when they were good they were great. bias had potential but in basketball drafts thats all you hear potential we dont know how he wouldve played. sabonis was really good too.

crazygolucky
11-30-2009, 08:46 PM
you know, Grant Hill still plays, and while he might not be as good as he could have, he still has plenty of game, as opposed to not even being alive, like Bias and Petrovic...

In that vein i think putting him up there is a bit unfair...

barreleffact
11-30-2009, 11:38 PM
bias doesnt fit the criteria for being robbed. he overdosed. if anything, he gave it up.

Chronz
12-01-2009, 05:37 AM
22.3 pts/game he was a great efficient scorer.

All-NBA 3rd Team: this means he was a top 6 guard at the time.

He is in the Hall of Fame. I rest my case.

Dude thats the exact same thing you said in the post that preceded my response. Again....

Stats will show his production falls well short of your typical All-League Player

I know he made the team, Im speaking in terms of relative value, not in literal terms. For example, Deron Williams has NEVER made an All-Star team, does that mean you shouldnt consider him an All-Star? Obviously not, hes well above being an All-Star player, just the circumstances he was dealt prevented that. And Drazen playing in a league with very little competition at his position boosted his stock.

Lastly if your citing basketballs HOF as any sort of measuring stick, then you really arent up to speed with the games history. Any serious fan of the game knows how much of a sham that thing is.

Drazen was an icon, and deserves mention. Aside from that, hes really nowhere close to these guys.

Chronz
12-01-2009, 05:51 AM
Ralph Sampson anybody?

holocaust227
12-01-2009, 06:30 AM
I was about to say Ralph Sampson. A healthy Sampson + Olajuwon would own the league. Two very skilled big men averaging double-doubles that both give legitimate defensive presence.

Faneik
12-01-2009, 06:41 AM
Dude thats the exact same thing you said in the post that preceded my response. Again....

Stats will show his production falls well short of your typical All-League Player

I know he made the team, Im speaking in terms of relative value, not in literal terms. For example, Deron Williams has NEVER made an All-Star team, does that mean you shouldnt consider him an All-Star? Obviously not, hes well above being an All-Star player, just the circumstances he was dealt prevented that. And Drazen playing in a league with very little competition at his position boosted his stock.

Lastly if your citing basketballs HOF as any sort of measuring stick, then you really arent up to speed with the games history. Any serious fan of the game knows how much of a sham that thing is.

Drazen was an icon, and deserves mention. Aside from that, hes really nowhere close to these guys.

That's all I'm saying, that he derserved mention on a topic like this.

NBA 3rd team nominations are a sham too? You clearly haven't seen him play. Games he was on fire, getting double teamed , with 2 hands in his face still managed to make fade away 3-pt shots beating the 24secs violation. Nothing but net, it was beautiful.

I really don't care if in your eyes he wasn't All-Star caliber. And I sure won't start comparing the impact on the game of a 6'3 guard(Petrovic) with a 7'2 center (Sabonis).

Faneik
12-01-2009, 06:45 AM
Ralph Sampson anybody?


some guys to think about:

jay williams
connie hawkins
ron harper
ralph sampson
bernard king
danny manning

You really should pay attention to others posts in your own topics.

JayW_1023
12-01-2009, 06:53 AM
Grant Hill in his prime was such a treat...he had a smooth game, drove and finished with such little effort. He was a machine. No wing could dominate like that without a good outside shot since Dr. J.

eugene
12-01-2009, 07:14 AM
Sabonis for sure! If he joined NBA in his prime and not after devastating achilles injuries he would become a TOP 3 centers in the league!

Hellcrooner
12-01-2009, 08:45 AM
petrovic is the real euro what if.


also you forgot bernard king

todu82
12-01-2009, 09:14 AM
Len Bias, he could have been something else had it not been for the drugs.

Chronz
12-01-2009, 12:56 PM
You really should pay attention to others posts in your own topics.

Yes sir


petrovic is the real euro what if.


also you forgot bernard king
Again with Petro

Yes on Bernard though, he was an MVP contender at one point. See thats a significant loss, not a hapless team losing a fringe All-Star


That's all I'm saying, that he derserved mention on a topic like this.
I know, hes just nowhere near these guys is all Im saying. Remember when I said he deserved as much mentioning as Antonio McDyess, that wasnt exactly a dis so I dont know why you felt the need to repeat this stance.

FYI This Dice guy was a 20-10 beast in his prime, and a TRUE All-Star. He was a superior player to Drazen and he was robbed of his prime, thats pretty significant no? The real big card Drazen gets to play is how much he meant to people overseas and played a pretty significant factor in globalizing the game. But what do we really miss out from Drazen not being alive? Do the Nets run off a chain of championships (**** do they even make the playoffs in 2 years?), do they weaken another Dynasty already in place like Arvydas and Walton potentially coudve? THATS ALL IM SAYING


NBA 3rd team nominations are a sham too?
No THE HOF is a sham. All-NBA Teams are a result of their era's level of competition, thus spread out across time provides very little context to a players ability.What qualifies as ALL-League play in 1 year could very well not even garner an All-Star selection in another. This is what I was telling you


You clearly haven't seen him play.
You keep saying that? It would be like me saying you clearly havent seen basketball outside of his games because your clearly overrating his skills, atleast in comparison to what All-League SG's usually put up to make the team.



Games he was on fire, getting double teamed , with 2 hands in his face still managed to make fade away 3-pt shots beating the 24secs violation. Nothing but net, it was beautiful.

His game was beautiful, that doesnt mean you should overrate him.


I really don't care if in your eyes he wasn't All-Star caliber. And I sure won't start comparing the impact on the game of a 6'3 guard(Petrovic) with a 7'2 center (Sabonis).
He was a fringe All-Star and definitely not an All-League caliber player. Was Drazen really so short? I always thought he was your prototypical shooting guard (6"5).



Hows this for a middle ground, if Drazen isnt around for those magical seasons, then maybe we lose out on some of the games best euro's, that would be a crime. But I dont like the whole 6 degrees of separation thing.

dtmagnet
12-01-2009, 05:21 PM
Len Bias was potentially a very great player, and since he died as opposed to being injured I think that is pretty severe on its own.

69centers
12-02-2009, 10:19 AM
Bill Walton clearly. He would be in the battle with the other 5 great centers for the greatest center ever.

Also the Celtics shouldn't had gotten that pick anyway. They were already the champions in 1986 and an elite team. Why the hell should a team with the best record in the league have a top 3 pick in the draft?

That would have been like the Bulls getting Jason Kidd in the 1994 draft or Alonzo Mourning in the 1992 draft.

Funny a Bulls fan wouldn't pick Bias, as most historians and critics have spoken over the years about how many titles Jordan may not have won if Bias and the Celtics continued their dominance into the 90's.

Turtle55
12-02-2009, 10:31 AM
Funny a Bulls fan wouldn't pick Bias, as most historians and critics have spoken over the years about how many titles Jordan may not have won if Bias and the Celtics continued their dominance into the 90's.

Well I'm a Bulls fan and I am picking Bias. I don't think any of the others compares to a guy dieing the day after he was drafted. To say Jordan wouldn't have rings because of the kid is a little overboard but this was the biggest star tragedy ever. Even worse when you couple it with Reggie Lewis.

69centers
12-02-2009, 11:01 AM
Well I'm a Bulls fan and I am picking Bias. I don't think any of the others compares to a guy dieing the day after he was drafted. To say Jordan wouldn't have rings because of the kid is a little overboard but this was the biggest star tragedy ever. Even worse when you couple it with Reggie Lewis.

Not sure how it's overboard, as Bias was like a Shawn Kemp with MJ's athleticism. A more powerful version of MJ, and more like a Lebron type. Coach Mike K. from Duke has always said the two best players he ever saw in college were MJ and Bias. If you put that kind of talent onto an aging but decent Celtics squad that was already making the playoffs without him, '91-'93 could have went a whole lot differently for the Bulls. While I'm sure the Bulls would have won still won titles in the 90's, I highly doubt it would have been 6, especially the earlier 3-peat.

Turtle55
12-02-2009, 11:07 AM
Not sure how it's overboard, as Bias was like a Shawn Kemp with MJ's athleticism. A more powerful version of MJ, and more like a Lebron type. Coach Mike K. from Duke has always said the two best players he ever saw in college were MJ and Bias. If you put that kind of talent onto an aging but decent Celtics squad that was already making the playoffs without him, '91-'93 could have went a whole lot differently for the Bulls. While I'm sure the Bulls would have won still won titles in the 90's, I highly doubt it would have been 6, especially the earlier 3-peat.

Bird, McHale, and Parish were on their last legs. Bias MAY have been great (we really don't need to run through the entire list of next great superstars who never lived up to their college billing do we?) but we'll never know. If he was an all star level player Boston still probably wasn't going to beat Chicago in Jordan/Pippen's prime. I'm not knocking those Celtic teams because if they were in their prime with Bias they would have been ridiculous. But by the time Jordan starting winning titles Bird and company were worn out. Bias AND Lewis together could have really made things interesting but we'll never know.

BTW, knowing JB I seriously doubt Len Bias costing Jordan titles never even crossed JordansBulls' mind when he voted.

69centers
12-02-2009, 12:59 PM
Bird, McHale, and Parish were on their last legs. Bias MAY have been great (we really don't need to run through the entire list of next great superstars who never lived up to their college billing do we?) but we'll never know. If he was an all star level player Boston still probably wasn't going to beat Chicago in Jordan/Pippen's prime. I'm not knocking those Celtic teams because if they were in their prime with Bias they would have been ridiculous. But by the time Jordan starting winning titles Bird and company were worn out. Bias AND Lewis together could have really made things interesting but we'll never know.

BTW, knowing JB I seriously doubt Len Bias costing Jordan titles never even crossed JordansBulls' mind when he voted.

Sort of true, but in both the 1991 and 1992 playoffs, they still made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, so with Bias in the mix, who knows. McHale averaged 20PPG in the 1993 playoffs without Bird or Lewis, but again, what about with a prime Bias??

Parish was definitely not on his last legs from 1990-1993. The guy played until 1997.

Turtle55
12-02-2009, 02:25 PM
Sort of true, but in both the 1991 and 1992 playoffs, they still made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, so with Bias in the mix, who knows. McHale averaged 20PPG in the 1993 playoffs without Bird or Lewis, but again, what about with a prime Bias??

Parish was definitely not on his last legs from 1990-1993. The guy played until 1997.

But wasn't it a significantly diminished role for several of those years? I remember him backing up Zo in Charlotte and then backing up Longley I think in Chicago. We'll never really know what Bias could have been or meant. I feel that the Celtics would not have gone through those dark ages they experienced if the two forwards had not passed away.

Silent
12-02-2009, 02:51 PM
about as much as antonio mcdyess does. Drazen was a great shooter but outside of that he wasnt really landscape altering.

he was avrg 26 pts a game before he died he was a big part of the nets future

Preuss-is-right
12-03-2009, 03:48 AM
If we're looking at hyped players that were robbed its easily Grant Hill. He was the next Jordan. He was supposed to average a triple double in his prime. He was awesome and lived up to every bit of hype for 6 years then it all shattered just as fast as his ankle.

If we're looking at promising players that could have been perrenial All-Stars then that list is WAY too long.

abe_froman
12-03-2009, 04:04 AM
Not sure how it's overboard, as Bias was like a Shawn Kemp with MJ's athleticism. A more powerful version of MJ, and more like a Lebron type. Coach Mike K. from Duke has always said the two best players he ever saw in college were MJ and Bias. If you put that kind of talent onto an aging but decent Celtics squad that was already making the playoffs without him, '91-'93 could have went a whole lot differently for the Bulls. While I'm sure the Bulls would have won still won titles in the 90's, I highly doubt it would have been 6, especially the earlier 3-peat.

while bias would have kept them going(and maybe avoid the dark ages of the mid 90's) and might have produced some battles.you are really underrating those bulls teams of the early 90's.

Raph12
12-03-2009, 04:18 AM
Not a lot of guys know about Mo Stokes, the guy could've been legendary, maybe even better than Bill Russel, who knows... anyways he gets my vote.