PDA

View Full Version : Kobe Has Highest Basketball IQ, Poll Says



JordansBulls
11-30-2009, 12:45 PM
Source: Newsok (http://www.newsok.com/article/3421468)




The Oklahoman recently conducted a poll among players and coaches to determine who has the highest basketball IQ in the NBA.

The results were as follows:

1. Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles 2. Jason Kidd, Dallas 3. Steve Nash, Phoenix 4. Chris Paul, New Orleans 5. LeBron James, Cleveland

zo#33
11-30-2009, 12:56 PM
I think Duncan has higher basketball IQ then anyone listed, with maybe the exception of Kobe

arkanian215
11-30-2009, 12:59 PM
i wonder what qualifies as basketball iq. a guy could really know the game but still suck at it. the list only has really good players. i just find it hard to believe that only the top players have high basketball iq's.

TheKing23
11-30-2009, 01:09 PM
Tim Duncan has the highest basketball IQ in the league... It's also interesting to see all the players mentioned are flashy guards (or SF in LeBron's case).

Tim Duncan's basketball knowledge is off the chart but just because he doesn't dunk the ball every time he's in the paint or block shots into the crowd, he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.

Raph12
11-30-2009, 01:14 PM
TD should top the list, and a couple listed shouldn't be even be in the Top 10 let alone Top 5.

Mile High Champ
11-30-2009, 01:27 PM
How do even measure something like this accuratly? The Answer is you can't. Even if I had to provide two players with the highest basketball IQ, it would not be Kobe. I would have Nash and Duncan...

ChiSox219
11-30-2009, 01:28 PM
Shane Battier...easily #1

tr4shb0t
11-30-2009, 01:29 PM
Shane Battier...easily #1

<insert any name other than Kobe here>...easily #1

ChiSox219
11-30-2009, 01:31 PM
<insert any name other than Kobe here>...easily #1

:rolleyes:

ink
11-30-2009, 01:34 PM
How do even measure something like this accuratly? The Answer is you can't. Even if I had to provide two players with the highest basketball IQ, it would not be Kobe. I would have Nash and Duncan...

Totally agree.

TheKing23
11-30-2009, 01:37 PM
<insert any name other than Kobe here>...easily #1

Mark Blount... easily #1

arkanian215
11-30-2009, 02:06 PM
battier is an amazing defender. all around iq is probably in the top 20.

Gibby23
11-30-2009, 02:57 PM
I would include Gasol in the top 10.

Ray_R
11-30-2009, 03:19 PM
yea he shows it everygame.. i use to hate kobe but respected him. back when he was a ball hog but he has been playing with his team and staring to likehim a lil more each day

albertc86
11-30-2009, 03:20 PM
I know I'm going to get flamed by the LBJ fans but I don't think his IQ is top 5 in the league. I'd put a lot of veterans before him. He's just an incredible athlete.

ko8e24
11-30-2009, 03:31 PM
I know I'm going to get flamed by the LBJ fans but I don't think his IQ is top 5 in the league. I'd put a lot of veterans before him. He's just an incredible athlete.

u wont get flamed if ur speaking the truth. he has much to learn about the game of b-ball, he's only in his 7th yr, and yes he's an athletic freak

IndyRealist
11-30-2009, 03:32 PM
I'd say LBJ is up there, not top 5 but up there. He has superior scoring ability, a good grasp of rebounding fundamentals and defense, and sets up his teammates. Putting Kobe before Kidd, Nash, or Paul seems a bit out there. And players like Battier, Brandon Roy, and even Durant might be up there before Kobe.

albertc86
11-30-2009, 03:35 PM
I'd say LBJ is up there, not top 5 but up there. He has superior scoring ability, a good grasp of rebounding fundamentals and defense, and sets up his teammates. Putting Kobe before Kidd, Nash, or Paul seems a bit out there. And players like Battier, Brandon Roy, and even Durant might be up there before Kobe.

How can you not put Kobe before those guys? Kobe seemingly has no deficiency anywhere in his game. He works on something new every offseason. This year he is making guys look foolish with the left hand and his defense is better after the addition of Artest. And what do you mean Roy, Durant and Battier would go before Kobe? Lmao.

arkanian215
11-30-2009, 03:40 PM
agreed. gasol looks like he really understands the game.

ko8e24
11-30-2009, 03:43 PM
I'd say LBJ is up there, not top 5 but up there. He has superior scoring ability, a good grasp of rebounding fundamentals and defense, and sets up his teammates. Putting Kobe before Kidd, Nash, or Paul seems a bit out there. And players like Battier, Brandon Roy, and even Durant might be up there before Kobe.

Nash has a high bball IQ.....on offense. It is basically nonexistent on the defensive end. Which is why he would not get the nod over Kobe. Heck, I think Jason Kidd has a higher bball IQ than Nash, even though Nash is the much more flashier, more efficient scorer who avgs more assists. It's the understanding of the game, and J-Kidd is a way better defensive player (tho he's lost a step or two due to age) than Nash

eugene
11-30-2009, 03:46 PM
Oden and Arenas are the lowest. Kidd, Nash, Duncan, Pau Gasol, Calderon, Billups, TPrince, Marc Gasol, Dirk and Manu would be a TOP10

HoopsDrive
11-30-2009, 03:52 PM
Duhon, hands down.

abe_froman
11-30-2009, 03:56 PM
I'd say LBJ is up there, not top 5 but up there. He has superior scoring ability, a good grasp of rebounding fundamentals and defense, and sets up his teammates. Putting Kobe before Kidd, Nash, or Paul seems a bit out there. And players like Battier, Brandon Roy, and even Durant might be up there before Kobe.

you underrate kobe's understanding of the game.

clehmun
11-30-2009, 04:08 PM
Nash has a high bball IQ.....on offense. It is basically nonexistent on the defensive end. Which is why he would not get the nod over Kobe. Heck, I think Jason Kidd has a higher bball IQ than Nash, even though Nash is the much more flashier, more efficient scorer who avgs more assists. It's the understanding of the game, and J-Kidd is a way better defensive player (tho he's lost a step or two due to age) than Nash

i understand what you're trying to say. but to be great on the offensive end, the first thing you need to have is the understanding of defense.

G-Funk
11-30-2009, 05:05 PM
Where's Nash's IQ on defense? lol and wheres Tim Duncans IQ out of the post?

G-Funk
11-30-2009, 05:08 PM
Besides it was conducted among players and coaches not this idiots who love to hate on Kobe's game

ko8e24
11-30-2009, 05:14 PM
Where's Nash's IQ on defense? lol and wheres Tim Duncans IQ out of the post?

while I agree with ur take on Nash, you have to realize what you said about Duncan. Duncan has a high bball IQ, which is why he stays in the post and doesn't go out of his limitations or paremeters. He stays within the vicinity of what he does best, and thats dominate in the paint and hit that occasional 15 foot bank shot. He can certainly run the pick-and-roll when he's not in the post, and is an underrated passer around the top of the key, which gets guys like Parker or Ginobili easy layups at times. TD does have a overall high bball IQ.

VCaintdead17
11-30-2009, 05:21 PM
Do I hear, Al Harrington?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-30-2009, 05:39 PM
Duhon, hands down.

Al "Chucker" Harrington

ko8e24
11-30-2009, 05:41 PM
smush

kArSoN RyDaH
11-30-2009, 05:41 PM
kobe does have a high iq althouhg duncan does too. kobe exposes his opponents weaknesses and i think players he goes against see this.

kblo247
11-30-2009, 05:45 PM
How do even measure something like this accuratly? The Answer is you can't. Even if I had to provide two players with the highest basketball IQ, it would not be Kobe. I would have Nash and Duncan...

You think that the coaches and GMs took into account the fact that Kobe has owned Duncan for the majority of their careers when it matters most and that Nash doesn't understand how to play any sort of defense into mind when they did this poll?

Not to mention, it would be hard for players to deny it after the Olympics. Duncan and his IQ and more talented team got dusted while Kobe joined up and brought back the gold all while leading by example. Paul, Deron, Lebron, Melo, Boah, and all the players who came back from playing with him returned smarter and better players because he changed how they prep for a game mentally with and physically through his attention to detail when it comes to game tape and practice.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2009, 05:48 PM
I would think Duncan, Billups, Nash, and Kidd for instance have the highest. Kobe has the highest combination of athletic skill/size and smarts I think though

AIverson
11-30-2009, 05:51 PM
No way I'm giving Kobe credit for this. We're talking about the same guy blowing games because he was too stupid to pass the ball to a prime Shaq. He doesn't even understand the importance playing from the inside out. How is that having the highest basketball IQ?

clehmun
11-30-2009, 06:01 PM
No way I'm giving Kobe credit for this. We're talking about the same guy blowing games because he was too stupid to pass the ball to a prime Shaq. He doesn't even understand the importance playing from the inside out. How is that having the highest basketball IQ?

:confused: that was then this is now.

kblo247
11-30-2009, 06:06 PM
No way I'm giving Kobe credit for this. We're talking about the same guy blowing games because he was too stupid to pass the ball to a prime Shaq. He doesn't even understand the importance playing from the inside out. How is that having the highest basketball IQ?

First off you are in no position to criticize repping Allen Iverson who is a career loser who has fit into 0 systems and went through countless teams and sidekicks because he never developed his weaknesses of playing without the ball, playing defense, or shooting at a 45% minimum.

Secondly, Kobe played poorly in the 04 finals but you might want to re-check your facts an see that Shaq got more touches in the finals than any of the Western Conference playoffs that year which Kobe dominated.

Lastly if he didn't understand the importance of playing the right way @ 31, how would he have been to the finals 6 times, have 4 rings, a gold medal, put up numbers that only Jordan and West have in the finals, and apologize and make amends with a coach who once called him uncoachable?

TheKing23
11-30-2009, 06:12 PM
Where's Nash's IQ on defense? lol and wheres Tim Duncans IQ out of the post?

And the award for the most ignorant statement on PSD goes too...

sp1derm00
11-30-2009, 06:51 PM
Wow.

The amount of Kobe hate is pretty amazing. They specifically state that the poll was conducted amongst players and coaches. These are people who make their living playing basketball. They understand the game in ways many of us don't, and you want to second guess their opinion and badmouth Kobe simply because of your hate?

I agree that this is based a lot on opinion, but these are players and coaches, and if they say Kobe understands the game better than anyone else playing right now, they are probably right.

I can respect opinions about Duncan understanding the game extremely well, but he doesn't understand the ENTIRE game. He might have one of the best post up games in the NBA, he might know how to rebound, he might know how to defend post players better than anyone else in the NBA, but Kobe knows all this, plus is arguably the game's best perimeter player.

Kobe understands the game offensively in terms of perimeter and interior scoring. He has one of the best post up games in the NBA, and he's a guard naturally. He can defend just about anyone from 1-4, and he's EXTREMELY undersized at the 4. He understands just about every aspect of the game, and you can see it during the game. He knows exactly what is given to him when something is taken away, and that is exactly what basketball IQ is.

Can you name a player that understands all this at a higher level than Kobe?

sp1derm00
11-30-2009, 06:56 PM
And the award for the most ignorant statement on PSD goes too...

you?

TD knows the perimeter game, but nowhere on the level Kobe knows the interior game.

Nash knows defense, but he spends so much energy on the offensive end of the floor that he probably can't execute everything he needs to defensively. That's my opinion of Nash. I see him play good defense sometimes, but sometimes he just doesn't seem to be able to stay in front of a player. Nash knows how to run an offense extremely well, but you can tell that he doesn't understand a half-court offense.

When he played with Shaq, one of the games best bigmen, even last year... the Suns looked extremely lost. Nash looked lost, he didn't know how to run a good half-court offense despite his talents. He is great at running a fast paced offense, and that's where it stops.

Kobe was probably chosen because while Nash may be better at running a high paced offense, Kobe can play and thrive in both a half-court offense and a run-and-gun style offense. He can post up inside or take it outside... and either way, he's one of the best at it.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2009, 07:05 PM
I still think that players such as Billups, Paul, Kidd, Duncan, and Nash have more basketball IQ than Kobe. But none of them have the combination of elite athletic ability, and elite brainpower, that Kobe does. But as far as pure basketball IQ, I dont think Kobe Bryant is the best there is. And take in account, many players, have no clue what they are talking about when voting on these things. Hence why ex players many times make the absolute worst coaches/GM's/etc.
A case can be made either way. It is of my opinion that there are smarter players than Kobe Bryant. Not many however. And the ones I would put ahead of him dont have his natural athletic ability

nipo10847
11-30-2009, 07:11 PM
i wonder what qualifies as basketball iq. A guy could really know the game but still suck at it. The list only has really good players. I just find it hard to believe that only the top players have high basketball iq's.

+1

Young and Stupid
11-30-2009, 07:12 PM
No love for Jason Collins?

fresh prince
11-30-2009, 07:17 PM
Kobe's a good choice..He's easily the most fundamentally sound player in the game today..both offensively and defensively speaking.

If you watch the way he sets up defenders it a thing of beauty. He makes the perfect spin or pivot based on where the defender is at that precise moment. Passing as well he always knows where his teammates are and makes the correct pass to guys where they can succeed. He knows his teammates capabilities and studies other players weaknesses to a T so on defense when he isn't gambling he takes advantage of that and is usually in the right position. You really can't fault the choice.

Brandon Roy also deserves mention

nipo10847
11-30-2009, 07:21 PM
A ball hog can't have the highest basketball IQ. However, the order has to be this imo: Duncan, Billups, Nash, Kid, CP3 .........and then the rests or who really cares.

ko8e24
11-30-2009, 07:26 PM
A ball hog can't have the highest basketball IQ. However, the order has to be this imo: Duncan, Billups, Nash, Kid, CP3 .........and then the rests or who really cares.

:pity:

RaiderLakersA's
11-30-2009, 07:36 PM
I find it funny that before anyone even paused to define what is meant by "Basketball IQ," 80% of the first two pages contains some rather dubious comments about whether Kobe rates #1. Are they talking about game knowledge, strategy, history of the game, what??? Even more laughable is how many here, keyboard ballers one and all, are quick to discredit the players and coaches who voted, only to go one fallacious step further by inserting their opinion as though it were scripture. No one cares what you THINK you know about a player's IQ. The poll was intended for the professionals who play this game. What you think doesn't matter. Swallow it, along with the bile, and let's keep it moving.

I don't know Kobe personally. I've watched quite a bit of him, but the closest that I've come to him personally was a seat about 25 rows up when the Lakers played the Warriors last year. Far, yes, but close enough to hear him not only calling plays, but coaching the other players on the court, bestowing knowledge on how to play this game that we all love. You don't have to take my word for it. Turn off your Kobe-Hater Vibrator Machines (because I'm sure many of you get off on it, the way you're quick to spew first and think second) and just watch how he relates to his teammates and the opponent.

Frankly, I could care less if Kobe's #1 or #5,001. Nothing is going to rain on this Laker ring parade we got going now. But some of you, man, you're missing it. Forget who Kobe was 4 or 5 years ago. Watch the man play NOW with unbiased eyes and tell me that you aren't witnessing (sorry LBJ, had to swagger jack that word) one of the best all around ballers to ever play this game.

kblo247
11-30-2009, 07:45 PM
A ball hog can't have the highest basketball IQ. However, the order has to be this imo: Duncan, Billups, Nash, Kid, CP3 .........and then the rests or who really cares.

Funny thing is that all the cats you named have the ball in their hands besides Duncan game in and game out more than Kobe the past couple of years :clap:

TornadoOfSouls
11-30-2009, 07:56 PM
You think that the coaches and GMs took into account the fact that Kobe has owned Duncan for the majority of their careers when it matters most and that Nash doesn't understand how to play any sort of defense into mind when they did this poll?

Kobe couldn't own **** when he didn't have another all-star playing next to him('05-'07). At least Duncan can say he's won a championship while carrying a team of role players(2003) while Kobe had to piggyback Shaq for three of his rings.


Not to mention, it would be hard for players to deny it after the Olympics. Duncan and his IQ and more talented team got dusted while Kobe joined up and brought back the gold all while leading by example. Paul, Deron, Lebron, Melo, Boah, and all the players who came back from playing with him returned smarter and better players because he changed how they prep for a game mentally with and physically through his attention to detail when it comes to game tape and practice.

Is this a ****ing joke? Duncan led a dominant US team to an easy first-place finish in the FIBA Americas Championship in 2003. Ten of the 12 players from that squad elected not to participate in Athens the following year(Shaq, Kidd, Carter, McGrady, Ray Allen, Bibby, Brand being the notable players). In addition, Garnett and Kobe turned down invites for 2004 leaving Duncan with one of the worst Olympic squads of all-time:

-weak frontline aside from Duncan
-couldn't shoot the 3-ball
-Iverson was given free reign at PG with Kidd choosing not to play for the US
-Larry Brown's stubborn refusal to play the youngsters(LeBron, Wade, and Carmelo) in favor of career underachievers like Marbury, Odom, Jefferson, and Matrix.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2009, 08:01 PM
I find it funny that before anyone even paused to define what is meant by "Basketball IQ," 80% of the first two pages contains some rather dubious comments about whether Kobe rates #1. Are they talking about game knowledge, strategy, history of the game, what??? Even more laughable is how many here, keyboard ballers one and all, are quick to discredit the players and coaches who voted, only to go one fallacious step further by inserting their opinion as though it were scripture. No one cares what you THINK you know about a player's IQ. The poll was intended for the professionals who play this game. What you think doesn't matter. Swallow it, along with the bile, and let's keep it moving.

I don't know Kobe personally. I've watched quite a bit of him, but the closest that I've come to him personally was a seat about 25 rows up when the Lakers played the Warriors last year. Far, yes, but close enough to hear him not only calling plays, but coaching the other players on the court, bestowing knowledge on how to play this game that we all love. You don't have to take my word for it. Turn off your Kobe-Hater Vibrator Machines (because I'm sure many of you get off on it, the way you're quick to spew first and think second) and just watch how he relates to his teammates and the opponent.

Frankly, I could care less if Kobe's #1 or #5,001. Nothing is going to rain on this Laker ring parade we got going now. But some of you, man, you're missing it. Forget who Kobe was 4 or 5 years ago. Watch the man play NOW with unbiased eyes and tell me that you aren't witnessing (sorry LBJ, had to swagger jack that word) one of the best all around ballers to ever play this game.

are you Kobe's press agent? Nobody disregards that Kobe is a top 3 player now, and an all time great. IQ is Larry Bird, or Chris Paul. Kobe, and LeBron too, get themselves in jams at times, but have the athletic ability to overcome. Him hitting a ridiculous fadeaway that 3 people in the league can hit doesn't make him smart.
I am not discrediting Kobe. Simply saying, there are players who most likely understand the game as well, or even better than him. But none of them have his athletic ability to go on top of that.
Why is it, that if fans don't bow down to Kobe being the best at every single facet of the game, they are haters? ITs a cop out to call people who have rational arguments that. You can respect how someone plays, and still not like him, or his team, or their fans. Keep it moving

Hawkeye15
11-30-2009, 08:03 PM
Kobe couldn't own **** when he didn't have another all-star playing next to him('05-'07). At least Duncan can say he's won a championship while carrying a team of role players(2003) while Kobe had to piggyback Shaq for three of his rings.



Is this a ****ing joke? Duncan led a dominant US team to an easy first-place finish in the FIBA Americas Championship in 2003. Ten of the 12 players from that squad elected not to participate in Athens the following year(Shaq, Kidd, Carter, McGrady, Ray Allen, Bibby, Brand being the notable players). In addition, Garnett and Kobe turned down invites for 2004 leaving Duncan with one of the worst Olympic squads of all-time:

-weak frontline aside from Duncan
-couldn't shoot the 3-ball
-Iverson was given free reign at PG with Kidd choosing not to play for the US
-Larry Brown's stubborn refusal to play the youngsters(LeBron, Wade, and Carmelo) in favor of career underachievers like Marbury, Odom, Jefferson, and Matrix.

while Kobe was 2nd banana in his first 3 rings, he was the leader of the squad that won last year, clearly. He has proven he can lead a team to a championship. Duncan has also proven this, but by no means does any of this pertain to the argument of who has better basketball IQ.

JWO35
11-30-2009, 08:03 PM
<Kwame Brown>...easily #1
Yep

TheKing23
11-30-2009, 08:05 PM
you?

TD knows the perimeter game, but nowhere on the level Kobe knows the interior game.

Nash knows defense, but he spends so much energy on the offensive end of the floor that he probably can't execute everything he needs to defensively. That's my opinion of Nash. I see him play good defense sometimes, but sometimes he just doesn't seem to be able to stay in front of a player. Nash knows how to run an offense extremely well, but you can tell that he doesn't understand a half-court offense.

When he played with Shaq, one of the games best bigmen, even last year... the Suns looked extremely lost. Nash looked lost, he didn't know how to run a good half-court offense despite his talents. He is great at running a fast paced offense, and that's where it stops.

Kobe was probably chosen because while Nash may be better at running a high paced offense, Kobe can play and thrive in both a half-court offense and a run-and-gun style offense. He can post up inside or take it outside... and either way, he's one of the best at it.

You really don't understand, do you?

First go back and read the original post I quoted... Questioning TD's IQ outside of the post is an extremely ignorant thing to do because he knows the limitations of his game. You don't see him camping behind the three point line jacking up shots, because that's not within his ability. This thread isn't "who has the best all-round game in the league"... it's about basketball intelligence. If you're going to use this argument, your discrediting the IQ of great players like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon and to a certain extent Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan... Just because they were much more effective close to the basket doesn't mean their overall IQ is any lower.

Kobe is one of the best finishers at the rim in the league but that comes down to his ability, not his IQ. His IQ contributes to him choosing the perfect moment to attack and drive but that is a completely different point. I'm not taking anything away from Kobe, in my opinion he is easily top 5 IQ wise, but to question TD's IQ because he isn't as effective 18 feet away from the basket is ignorant, plain and simple.

If anything it adds to the argument that TD has a higher basketball IQ because he's not doing the things he's not good at.

1265LombardiAve
11-30-2009, 08:13 PM
wow lebron top 5?

absolutely not

he may be the most athletic person to ever play in the nba but i dont even think hes top 50 in basketball IQ... seriously

Hawkeye15
11-30-2009, 08:18 PM
wow lebron top 5?

absolutely not

he may be the most athletic person to ever play in the nba but i dont even think hes top 50 in basketball IQ... seriously

this is common on player polls. Many are either watching from the bench, or get sick of one guy killing them, so he gets their vote. Barkley still claims McHale is the best PF ever, cause he got his *** kicked by him for years. McHale is clearly not the best PF ever. That is why player voting needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, I will believe a Shane Battier, or a Tim Duncan, or a Kobe Bryant, on their opinions. But I dont care what Brian Scalabrine, or about 80% of the league say. They simply pick the guy who give their team, or them individually, the biggest problems, and vote for them.
LeBron has an above average basketball IQ. His athletic ability is off the charts, and he gets smarter every year. He may not age as well as Kobe, but its too early to tell.

Shady66
11-30-2009, 08:19 PM
Kobes up their, my list would is
TD
Billups
Nash
Kidd
CP3
Kobe

in no order

TheKing23
11-30-2009, 08:21 PM
wow lebron top 5?

absolutely not

he may be the most athletic person to ever play in the nba but i dont even think hes top 50 in basketball IQ... seriously

So you've only seen videos of him dunking on youtube...

The way he reads the game, his vision on offense and his defense positioning puts him in the top 5 easily... oh yeah he's 24 as well.

Barack
11-30-2009, 08:29 PM
I find it funny that before anyone even paused to define what is meant by "Basketball IQ," 80% of the first two pages contains some rather dubious comments about whether Kobe rates #1. Are they talking about game knowledge, strategy, history of the game, what??? Even more laughable is how many here, keyboard ballers one and all, are quick to discredit the players and coaches who voted, only to go one fallacious step further by inserting their opinion as though it were scripture. No one cares what you THINK you know about a player's IQ. The poll was intended for the professionals who play this game. What you think doesn't matter. Swallow it, along with the bile, and let's keep it moving.

I don't know Kobe personally. I've watched quite a bit of him, but the closest that I've come to him personally was a seat about 25 rows up when the Lakers played the Warriors last year. Far, yes, but close enough to hear him not only calling plays, but coaching the other players on the court, bestowing knowledge on how to play this game that we all love. You don't have to take my word for it. Turn off your Kobe-Hater Vibrator Machines (because I'm sure many of you get off on it, the way you're quick to spew first and think second) and just watch how he relates to his teammates and the opponent.

Frankly, I could care less if Kobe's #1 or #5,001. Nothing is going to rain on this Laker ring parade we got going now. But some of you, man, you're missing it. Forget who Kobe was 4 or 5 years ago. Watch the man play NOW with unbiased eyes and tell me that you aren't witnessing (sorry LBJ, had to swagger jack that word) one of the best all around ballers to ever play this game.

this


one of the top laker posters from what i read...once again, well done RLA

nipo10847
11-30-2009, 08:30 PM
Funny thing is that all the cats you named have the ball in their hands besides Duncan game in and game out more than Kobe the past couple of years :clap:

Difference is that they made teammates better by having the ball in their hand instead of trying to score 30 ppg game in and game out with mediocre shooting %.

nipo10847
11-30-2009, 08:36 PM
Kobes up their, my list would is
TD
Billups
Nash
Kidd
CP3
Kobe

in no order

This ^.
(except I would like to enter quite a few names in between the last two.)

KnicksorBust
11-30-2009, 08:43 PM
I think Duncan has higher basketball IQ then anyone listed, with maybe the exception of Kobe


Tim Duncan has the highest basketball IQ in the league... It's also interesting to see all the players mentioned are flashy guards (or SF in LeBron's case).

Tim Duncan's basketball knowledge is off the chart but just because he doesn't dunk the ball every time he's in the paint or block shots into the crowd, he doesn't get the recognition he deserves.


TD should top the list, and a couple listed shouldn't be even be in the Top 10 let alone Top 5.

x4


You really don't understand, do you?

First go back and read the original post I quoted... Questioning TD's IQ outside of the post is an extremely ignorant thing to do because he knows the limitations of his game. You don't see him camping behind the three point line jacking up shots, because that's not within his ability. This thread isn't "who has the best all-round game in the league"... it's about basketball intelligence. If you're going to use this argument, your discrediting the IQ of great players like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon and to a certain extent Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan... Just because they were much more effective close to the basket doesn't mean their overall IQ is any lower.

Kobe is one of the best finishers at the rim in the league but that comes down to his ability, not his IQ. His IQ contributes to him choosing the perfect moment to attack and drive but that is a completely different point. I'm not taking anything away from Kobe, in my opinion he is easily top 5 IQ wise, but to question TD's IQ because he isn't as effective 18 feet away from the basket is ignorant, plain and simple.

If anything it adds to the argument that TD has a higher basketball IQ because he's not doing the things he's not good at.

Exactly. He's maximized his skills throughout his career and won 4 titles. The list of people who can say that is very small.


I find it funny that before anyone even paused to define what is meant by "Basketball IQ," 80% of the first two pages contains some rather dubious comments about whether Kobe rates #1. Are they talking about game knowledge, strategy, history of the game, what??? Even more laughable is how many here, keyboard ballers one and all, are quick to discredit the players and coaches who voted, only to go one fallacious step further by inserting their opinion as though it were scripture. No one cares what you THINK you know about a player's IQ. The poll was intended for the professionals who play this game. What you think doesn't matter. Swallow it, along with the bile, and let's keep it moving.

I don't know Kobe personally. I've watched quite a bit of him, but the closest that I've come to him personally was a seat about 25 rows up when the Lakers played the Warriors last year. Far, yes, but close enough to hear him not only calling plays, but coaching the other players on the court, bestowing knowledge on how to play this game that we all love. You don't have to take my word for it. Turn off your Kobe-Hater Vibrator Machines (because I'm sure many of you get off on it, the way you're quick to spew first and think second) and just watch how he relates to his teammates and the opponent.
Frankly, I could care less if Kobe's #1 or #5,001. Nothing is going to rain on this Laker ring parade we got going now. But some of you, man, you're missing it. Forget who Kobe was 4 or 5 years ago. Watch the man play NOW with unbiased eyes and tell me that you aren't witnessing (sorry LBJ, had to swagger jack that word) one of the best all around ballers to ever play this game.

This post was laughable. It amazes me that people would rather write a self-absorbed rant belittling people than actually contribute to the conversation. "What you think doesn't matter." How gracious of you. Welcome to an open discussion. If you had just written what I underlined that post would have been a lot better.

madiaz3
11-30-2009, 08:49 PM
are you Kobe's press agent? Nobody disregards that Kobe is a top 3 player now, and an all time great. IQ is Larry Bird, or Chris Paul. Kobe, and LeBron too, get themselves in jams at times, but have the athletic ability to overcome. Him hitting a ridiculous fadeaway that 3 people in the league can hit doesn't make him smart.
I am not discrediting Kobe. Simply saying, there are players who most likely understand the game as well, or even better than him. But none of them have his athletic ability to go on top of that.
Why is it, that if fans don't bow down to Kobe being the best at every single facet of the game, they are haters? ITs a cop out to call people who have rational arguments that. You can respect how someone plays, and still not like him, or his team, or their fans. Keep it moving

Is it not using your brain to judge what you can do with your athleticism?
"My defender is going to play this way because my three point shooter is open and I know that if he sags off me I will beat him with a quicker first step." ETC

Hawkeye15
11-30-2009, 08:54 PM
Is it not using your brain to judge what you can do with your athleticism?
"My defender is going to play this way because my three point shooter is open and I know that if he sags off me I will beat him with a quicker first step." ETC

sure it is. But it doesnt mean he has the highest basketball IQ in the league. THere is Gerald Green, and there is Kobe Bryant.
My point is, there are players who are basically as efficient, or slightly less, that have nowhere NEAR the physical gifts of Kobe Bryant. And player like Chris Paul, or Chauncey Billups, or Tim Duncan, imo, has a better understanding of basketball. They are still able to completely dominate without that athletic ability or size combination. Larry Bird is the pinnacle of basketball IQ.
THat is what I am saying. Kobe very well may have the best combination of athletic ability and basketball IQ, but i dont think he is the highest in either

HoopsDrive
11-30-2009, 09:06 PM
Al "Chucker" Harrington

Well ok... but how about this

Marcus Banks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS1yArF1RdE

That was just :facepalm:

natelpete
11-30-2009, 09:14 PM
he has the highest basketball IQ if you dont take into account all the ridiculous shots he takes instead of passing to the wide-open guy for the easy basket

LA_Raiders
11-30-2009, 10:16 PM
Duncan should be there

Kobe
Kidd
Nash
Duncan
CP3

sp1derm00
11-30-2009, 10:18 PM
You really don't understand, do you?

First go back and read the original post I quoted... Questioning TD's IQ outside of the post is an extremely ignorant thing to do because he knows the limitations of his game. You don't see him camping behind the three point line jacking up shots, because that's not within his ability. This thread isn't "who has the best all-round game in the league"... it's about basketball intelligence. If you're going to use this argument, your discrediting the IQ of great players like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon and to a certain extent Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan... Just because they were much more effective close to the basket doesn't mean their overall IQ is any lower.

Kobe is one of the best finishers at the rim in the league but that comes down to his ability, not his IQ. His IQ contributes to him choosing the perfect moment to attack and drive but that is a completely different point. I'm not taking anything away from Kobe, in my opinion he is easily top 5 IQ wise, but to question TD's IQ because he isn't as effective 18 feet away from the basket is ignorant, plain and simple.

If anything it adds to the argument that TD has a higher basketball IQ because he's not doing the things he's not good at.

I wrote one undeniable quip about TD not knowing the perimeter game as well as Kobe knows the interior game. He simply does not, therefor, he doesn't understand the game as whole better than Kobe does.

SteveNash
11-30-2009, 11:10 PM
They are still able to completely dominate without that athletic ability or size combination. Larry Bird is the pinnacle of basketball IQ.

Why because he's white? :rolleyes:

Statik1
11-30-2009, 11:18 PM
How in the hell wasn't Duncan on the list ???

Lakersfan2483
11-30-2009, 11:20 PM
The players with the highest bball IQ are Kobe, Duncan, Kidd, Nash, Billups, Wade and CP3. A lot of people have not mentioned Shaq, but he has a very high bball IQ as well.

dnl123
11-30-2009, 11:21 PM
If Kobe has a such a high basketball IQ how come he takes ill advised shots still in every single game?

Wilson
11-30-2009, 11:42 PM
I can agree with Kobe being at or near the top.

On people's commets, I agree with Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd and Shane Battier. I've read through three pages though and not too many people have mentioned Chauncey Billups, which is astonishing. You don't need to look any further than how Denver's mentality changed when he got there. It didn't take long for the Nuggets to take his mentality and start playing defense. Chauncey is one of the smartest guys in the league and is a good teacher too.

I don't know about Steve Nash. He's shown that he understands how to break down a defense but he's never shown the ability to play good man or team defense. I don't think any of his team-mates have ever shown an improved understanding of defense after playing with him either (somebody correct me if I'm wrong though, I've not followed Nash's career extremely close apart from when the Lakers had those series' against the Suns).

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-01-2009, 04:18 AM
are you Kobe's press agent? Nobody disregards that Kobe is a top 3 player now, and an all time great. IQ is Larry Bird, or Chris Paul. Kobe, and LeBron too, get themselves in jams at times, but have the athletic ability to overcome. Him hitting a ridiculous fadeaway that 3 people in the league can hit doesn't make him smart.
I am not discrediting Kobe. Simply saying, there are players who most likely understand the game as well, or even better than him. But none of them have his athletic ability to go on top of that.
Why is it, that if fans don't bow down to Kobe being the best at every single facet of the game, they are haters? ITs a cop out to call people who have rational arguments that. You can respect how someone plays, and still not like him, or his team, or their fans. Keep it moving

Congratulations Hawkeye15, you're the biggest Kobe hater on PSD!:clap::clap:

Highlight
12-01-2009, 04:34 AM
Any player who follows the Lakers closely knows how high of an IQ Kobe has. I'm not going to call anyone a hater like some, but only people who follow the Lakers closely truly know how high of an IQ he has.

He's constantly teaching his teammates. I see him teaching players nearly every stoppage of the game. Nearly every timeout I see him talking to one of his teammates. When him and Pau talk, it's actually pretty cool to watch because you see Pau get it in 2 seconds. Pau just nods and a play later one of them scores.

During games you see him pointing to players and where they should be constantly. (Spacing the floor)

In my opinion, he has one hell of an IQ. I understand what Hawkeye is saying, with athletic ability bailing him out at times, but watching him on a nightly basis you really get to see his IQ at work.

On another note, like others have stated, other genius's of the game are: Duncan, Kidd, Billups, Wade, CP3, Shaq (Great passer for a big), Deron Williams, Battier, Nash, and I think Lebron is getting closer and closer.

JayW_1023
12-01-2009, 07:02 AM
He is up there, but so are Duncan, Gasol, Kidd, Nash, Billups, Dirk and those guys.

If Dwight Howard

Unruly Fan
12-01-2009, 09:23 AM
while I agree with ur take on Nash, you have to realize what you said about Duncan. Duncan has a high bball IQ, which is why he stays in the post and doesn't go out of his limitations or paremeters. He stays within the vicinity of what he does best, and thats dominate in the paint and hit that occasional 15 foot bank shot. He can certainly run the pick-and-roll when he's not in the post, and is an underrated passer around the top of the key, which gets guys like Parker or Ginobili easy layups at times. TD does have a overall high bball IQ.
Two thumbs up.

Double_R
12-01-2009, 10:08 AM
Lebron in top 100?

Hawkeye15
12-01-2009, 02:19 PM
Congratulations Hawkeye15, you're the biggest Kobe hater on PSD!:clap::clap:

why is that? Cause I don't bow down to him? I have repeatedly said positive things about Kobe, but like small children, some of you Laker fans only see the parts where I question him being Jesus in basketball shoes, which he is to you.
Move on dude.

Lakersfan2483
12-01-2009, 06:16 PM
Any player who follows the Lakers closely knows how high of an IQ Kobe has. I'm not going to call anyone a hater like some, but only people who follow the Lakers closely truly know how high of an IQ he has.

He's constantly teaching his teammates. I see him teaching players nearly every stoppage of the game. Nearly every timeout I see him talking to one of his teammates. When him and Pau talk, it's actually pretty cool to watch because you see Pau get it in 2 seconds. Pau just nods and a play later one of them scores.

During games you see him pointing to players and where they should be constantly. (Spacing the floor)

In my opinion, he has one hell of an IQ. I understand what Hawkeye is saying, with athletic ability bailing him out at times, but watching him on a nightly basis you really get to see his IQ at work.

On another note, like others have stated, other genius's of the game are: Duncan, Kidd, Billups, Wade, CP3, Shaq (Great passer for a big), Deron Williams, Battier, Nash, and I think Lebron is getting closer and closer.

Good post, always insightful info. from you.

dnl123
12-02-2009, 01:47 AM
So you're saying Kobe is smart because he knows how to space the floor, wow.

Kevj77
12-02-2009, 02:05 AM
ROFL... A poll that only asks NBA players or coaches and the Kobe haters want to call BS. Do any of you know more about this then actual NBA players or coaches. I don't think so.

Highlight
12-02-2009, 02:45 AM
Good post, always insightful info. from you.

Appreciate it man. I enjoy reading your posts as well.

Highlight
12-02-2009, 02:46 AM
So you're saying Kobe is smart because he knows how to space the floor, wow.

That's exactly what I was saying! At least someone here understands!:clap:

:crazy:

_KB24_
12-02-2009, 03:59 AM
Man, even if the coaches/players finally come to a consensus, these haters still won't agree.....

stawka
12-02-2009, 04:21 AM
Kobe/Duncan/Shaq/Kidd

Kobe gets the nod over the 'others' because he's still in his prime, whereas the other guys are on their way out.

Now seriously if anyone here says Kobe is not up there, needs a reality check. Same goes with LeBron, only he hasn't surpassed Kobe as yet. LeBron will be up there within a year or two, he understands the game too well - like I said, if you can't see that you need a reality check.

Highlight
12-02-2009, 04:54 AM
Kobe/Duncan/Shaq/Kidd

Kobe gets the nod over the 'others' because he's still in his prime, whereas the other guys are on their way out.

Now seriously if anyone here says Kobe is not up there, needs a reality check. Same goes with LeBron, only he hasn't surpassed Kobe as yet. LeBron will be up there within a year or two, he understands the game too well - like I said, if you can't see that you need a reality check.

Agreed.

Wisdom Listens
12-02-2009, 05:03 AM
I think Duncan has higher basketball IQ then anyone listed, with maybe the exception of Kobe

It's Duncan in my opinion. Kobe is more physically gifted obviously, but Duncan is the smarter basketball player.

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 05:06 AM
It's Duncan in my opinion. Kobe is more physically gifted obviously, but Duncan is the smarter basketball player.

thanx for backing up that statement with absolutely nothing.

Wisdom Listens
12-02-2009, 05:08 AM
thanx for backing up that statement with absolutely nothing.

Sorry I didn't meet your expectations.

SundaeBest
12-02-2009, 05:09 AM
are you Kobe's press agent? Nobody disregards that Kobe is a top 3 player now, and an all time great. IQ is Larry Bird, or Chris Paul. Kobe, and LeBron too, get themselves in jams at times, but have the athletic ability to overcome. Him hitting a ridiculous fadeaway that 3 people in the league can hit doesn't make him smart.
I am not discrediting Kobe. Simply saying, there are players who most likely understand the game as well, or even better than him. But none of them have his athletic ability to go on top of that.
Why is it, that if fans don't bow down to Kobe being the best at every single facet of the game, they are haters? ITs a cop out to call people who have rational arguments that. You can respect how someone plays, and still not like him, or his team, or their fans. Keep it moving

The reason Kobe/Laker fans are annoyed, is because compared to players and coaches (even stupid ones, which I admit there are plenty), what have you or anyone else ever done in the NBA? Their opinions mean a LOT more than anybody else's here.

Sure you are entitled to yours, but your opinion carries about as much weight as me stating that Kobe is the best player ever to play the game. We are just fans, who see things, and have our own points of view, and have our inherent biases, and although coaches and players do too, at least they've played/coached with/against the man, so their opinions are the only ones that count compared to ours.

Lastly, the point of a player/coach poll, is to remove the idiocy of fans and sports pundits, and try to get as pure of a result as possible, and then people here who have no idea what it's like to ever even sniff the professional level second guess them, it's just laughable.

SundaeBest
12-02-2009, 05:11 AM
while Kobe was 2nd banana in his first 3 rings, he was the leader of the squad that won last year, clearly. He has proven he can lead a team to a championship. Duncan has also proven this, but by no means does any of this pertain to the argument of who has better basketball IQ.

I hate to go here, because it's not thread related, but if that douche can go, so can I.

Kobe may have been second fiddle, but Shaq never won anything without Kobe, and even after, you could argue he was carried by dwade, and that states a lot, because I HATE dwade. So the argument is pretty much moot, am I right?

SundaeBest
12-02-2009, 05:16 AM
this is common on player polls. Many are either watching from the bench, or get sick of one guy killing them, so he gets their vote. Barkley still claims McHale is the best PF ever, cause he got his *** kicked by him for years. McHale is clearly not the best PF ever. That is why player voting needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, I will believe a Shane Battier, or a Tim Duncan, or a Kobe Bryant, on their opinions. But I dont care what Brian Scalabrine, or about 80% of the league say. They simply pick the guy who give their team, or them individually, the biggest problems, and vote for them.
LeBron has an above average basketball IQ. His athletic ability is off the charts, and he gets smarter every year. He may not age as well as Kobe, but its too early to tell.

I don't really agree with your take on this. I think people's natural instinct is to hate on a player who constantly beats them, and is always on top, not to shower him with accolades.

You're argument about Barkley and McHale I agree with, but then again, Barkley is an idiot who says a lot of stupid ish, (although a very good entertainer), he is hardly credible as a source of knowledge.

I'll agree to your point of view, as long as you admit that my point also has merit, and therefore, they both cancel each other out. My whole point about this, is that what you think the players think, is about as accurate as what I think they think, neither of us is a mind reader....

Can't we just appreciate that the people who are most knowledgeable about the question at hand (I think we can agree on that, right?), made that list, and it's about as accurate and unbiased an opinion you are gonna get. Outside of players/coaches, you can't count on fans or BSPN pundits to give you a true unbiased opinion.

SundaeBest
12-02-2009, 05:22 AM
Difference is that they made teammates better by having the ball in their hand instead of trying to score 30 ppg game in and game out with mediocre shooting %.

You obviously do not follow the Lakers do you? Hate to me is when you give no credit where credit is due. And to me, you are being a class-A *******.

**Note** I absolutely HATE I mean REALLY HATE lebron, but I would never make stupid comments that don't have any merit and are based on my own biases. I respect him in a lot of ways, and the same can be said for wade, you on the other hand, are yappin just for the sake of it.

SundaeBest
12-02-2009, 05:32 AM
sure it is. But it doesnt mean he has the highest basketball IQ in the league. THere is Gerald Green, and there is Kobe Bryant.
My point is, there are players who are basically as efficient, or slightly less, that have nowhere NEAR the physical gifts of Kobe Bryant. And player like Chris Paul, or Chauncey Billups, or Tim Duncan, imo, has a better understanding of basketball. They are still able to completely dominate without that athletic ability or size combination. Larry Bird is the pinnacle of basketball IQ.
THat is what I am saying. Kobe very well may have the best combination of athletic ability and basketball IQ, but i dont think he is the highest in either

I'll agree with you on Billpus to an extent, (still don't think he has more bball iq than Kobe, but def top 10-13....

But to say that Duncan and CP3 aren't physically gifted is ludicrous, one is 7 foot with a perfect blend of strength and agility, the other is about as fast as they come, and lightning quick on his slashes/cuts, not to mention he has very good size for a pg that fast and agile.


How in the hell wasn't Duncan on the list ???
Completely agree, top 3-4 to me.

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 05:34 AM
Sorry I didn't meet your expectations.

look, Kobe and Duncan are at the top, there is no way to really decide one over the other. That'll probably be doing an injustice to one or the other's basketball intelligence and greatness

Wisdom Listens
12-02-2009, 05:38 AM
look, Kobe and Duncan are at the top, there is no way to really decide one over the other. That'll probably be doing an injustice to one or the other's basketball intelligence and greatness

They're 1-2, no doubt. However, being behind Duncan is no injustice.

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 05:42 AM
They're 1-2, no doubt. However, being behind Duncan is no injustice.

now thinking about it, there is really no shame of being behind duncan on a list. one's name being associated with duncan's name makes that individual's name even that much greater. TD and Kobe are that great.

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 05:43 AM
BTW Wisdom Listens, I don't know why, but I haven't seen you post that much here on PSD. Or maybe I've overlooked. Who's your favorite team, player etc. Just curious

kArSoN RyDaH
12-02-2009, 05:44 AM
this is common on player polls. Many are either watching from the bench, or get sick of one guy killing them, so he gets their vote. Barkley still claims McHale is the best PF ever, cause he got his *** kicked by him for years. McHale is clearly not the best PF ever. That is why player voting needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, I will believe a Shane Battier, or a Tim Duncan, or a Kobe Bryant, on their opinions. But I dont care what Brian Scalabrine, or about 80% of the league say. They simply pick the guy who give their team, or them individually, the biggest problems, and vote for them.
LeBron has an above average basketball IQ. His athletic ability is off the charts, and he gets smarter every year. He may not age as well as Kobe, but its too early to tell.

okay so your saying that the guys who play the game dont know what their talking about? i dont understand people on here. everything that mentions kobe people try to bash him and take credit away from him. now if these are the players and coaches voting for kobe having the best basketball IQ it is true. these guys know the game more than any of us will ever know. yea you also forgot how lebron tears up defenses and gives teams problems but the players dont think he has a high IQ? you think that was a mistake? no. that alone right there just proves you wrong. if the league was going based off who tears them apart, and lebron clearly does that and dont forget carmelo anthony tooo, then these guys would be on this list but their not therefore makin this poll valid and your statement FALSE!:facepalm:

Wisdom Listens
12-02-2009, 05:49 AM
BTW Wisdom Listens, I don't know why, but I haven't seen you post that much here on PSD. Or maybe I've overlooked. Who's your favorite team, player etc. Just curious

I don't really post much in the NBA forum, that's probably why you haven't seen me. T-Wolves are my team, Garnett is my player. It's a tough time being a Wolves fan right now, for sure.

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 06:02 AM
I don't really post much in the NBA forum, that's probably why you haven't seen me. T-Wolves are my team, Garnett is my player. It's a tough time being a Wolves fan right now, for sure.

well good luck to ur franchise for the ture, and i hope the whole rubio thing works out for yall, and I hope Rambis can bring something new to the franchise

Wisdom Listens
12-02-2009, 06:18 AM
well good luck to ur franchise for the ture, and i hope the whole rubio thing works out for yall, and I hope Rambis can bring something new to the franchise

Thanks for the kind words man. I would wish you guys luck as well, but I'm sure you don't need it.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2009, 01:36 PM
okay so your saying that the guys who play the game dont know what their talking about? i dont understand people on here. everything that mentions kobe people try to bash him and take credit away from him. now if these are the players and coaches voting for kobe having the best basketball IQ it is true. these guys know the game more than any of us will ever know. yea you also forgot how lebron tears up defenses and gives teams problems but the players dont think he has a high IQ? you think that was a mistake? no. that alone right there just proves you wrong. if the league was going based off who tears them apart, and lebron clearly does that and dont forget carmelo anthony tooo, then these guys would be on this list but their not therefore makin this poll valid and your statement FALSE!:facepalm:

how many ex players are complete screwups as talent evaluators when they are given that position? A ton. I am simply saying, just cause someone plays in the NBA doesn't make them an expert on talent evaluation. They got there for a number of reasons. I am not 6'8". If I were, it would probably have helped my quest to play basketball. While I basically think media awards, and coaches awards are all jokes, I want to believe the players, but I remember, I was biased to thinking how good a player was if he crushed us in conference play, putting him above a clearly better player whom I didn't see much, if any. Kobe has beaten up on more teams with his roster behind him, and many guys individually will not be able to get that out of thier heads, and hold him to a higher degree, even if there are others who clearly understand the x's and o's, and reading the game better.

Wilson
12-02-2009, 04:52 PM
Guys, I've not always agreed with hawkeye in the past but I don't think he's just trying to drag Kobe through the mud here. He's not saying Kobe is dumb and relies purely on his athletic ability. He's saying that Kobe uses a mix of athletic abillity and intelligence to succeed.

I agree with him. Kobe will turn the ball over a lot from trying to do too much and even now will get caught up in one-on-one battles sometimes. Defensively he won't always put a hand up, and last season he even had a small habbit of just running past the shooter trying to get on the break before the ball even hit the rim.

I'm not saying he's stupid though. His knowledge of the triangle offense and vision within it is undeniable, which is why he's able to pick his spots offensively and have defenders guessing whether he's going to shoot or pass even while he's in the air. He knows how get guys in the right place to take advantage of defenses. He will communicate on defense and get in the right place for rebounds.

Ultimately though, it is a combination of this and his athletic ability which makes him the best (IMO) player in the league. He came into the league as an amazing athletic talent, and has grown to become one of the smartest. The combination of both is what has made him so special. So saying that he is not the absolute top of the mountain in intelligence isn't a knock on him, because it isn't one single thing which makes him who he is.

Highlight
12-02-2009, 05:22 PM
Guys, I've not always agreed with hawkeye in the past but I don't think he's just trying to drag Kobe through the mud here. He's not saying Kobe is dumb and relies purely on his athletic ability. He's saying that Kobe uses a mix of athletic abillity and intelligence to succeed.



Agreed. Hawkeye isn't bashing at all. He's just giving an honest opinion that makes a lot of sense.

Lakeshow86
12-02-2009, 05:25 PM
Dennis Rodman was the smartest guy ever to play

philab
12-02-2009, 05:50 PM
Kobe's definitely up there as one of the smartest. He does make some poor decisions though, which drops him slightly in my book. I've got Duncan, CP3, and Nash ahead of Kobe. Billups and Kidd right with or just below him.

Wisdom Listens
12-02-2009, 07:06 PM
Dennis Rodman was the smartest guy ever to play

No doubt. Rodman was definitely the smartest ******** person in the NBA.

_KB24_
12-02-2009, 09:57 PM
No doubt. Rodman was definitely the smartest ******** person in the NBA.

:laugh:

GspLAL
12-02-2009, 10:49 PM
Funny thing is that all the cats you named have the ball in their hands besides Duncan game in and game out more than Kobe the past couple of years :clap:

Don't bother, those kind of people are still stuck in 1997.

HoopsDrive
12-02-2009, 11:35 PM
no doubt. Rodman was definitely the smartest ******** person in the nba.

rofl

Hellcrooner
12-03-2009, 12:16 AM
if they realy made something remotley close to the truth it would infuriate you a LOT.

Timmy D, Nash and KIdd still make the top ten.

B the other 7 would be ALL of them FOREIGNERS who have been teached fundamentals and etc in FIBA.

If Dirk, Pau, Manu etc didnt have MONSTER IQs how in hell could the comepte against players that are MUCH TOUGHER and ATHLETIC phisically?

Hellcrooner
12-03-2009, 12:18 AM
Arvydas Sabonis is probaly the highest IQ paleyr ever.

dnl123
12-03-2009, 02:24 PM
That's exactly what I was saying! At least someone here understands!



.:facepalm: