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Wilson
11-29-2009, 04:07 PM
Just wondering what everyone thinks about them. A lot of times a team will lose on the second of a back to back and the games on consecutive nights is used as an excuse. I really can't see why it should be.

These are world class athletes, and they should be able to play 40 mins two nights in a row. The travel isn't exactly gruelling, teams fly first class, on their own planes. It's not like they're spending hours on end cramped in between two strangers with a screaming baby behind them.

If it's a home game then you don't need to worry about the travel, so there's even less excuses there.

I'm just tired of hearing this excuse, I really don't understand it.

DerekRE_3
11-29-2009, 04:12 PM
Just wondering what everyone thinks about them. A lot of times a team will lose on the second of a back to back and the games on consecutive nights is used as an excuse. I really can't see why it should be.

These are world class athletes, and they should be able to play 40 mins two nights in a row. The travel isn't exactly gruelling, teams fly first class, on their own planes. It's not like they're spending hours on end cramped in between two strangers with a screaming baby behind them.

If it's a home game then you don't need to worry about the travel, so there's even less excuses there.

I'm just tired of hearing this excuse, I really don't understand it.

Only way to understand it is to have to do it.

ko8e24
11-29-2009, 04:14 PM
When you've gone thru the yrs of being an nba basketball player, and you know that basketball is your profession, and you've trained your body during the offseason and in the middle of games during practice time, and you're fully healthy, then an nba player should have no excuses. Everyone has to go thru the same moderate to arduous physical times in the course of an NBA Season.

tr4shb0t
11-29-2009, 04:22 PM
Every team faces it, so it's fair in that regard. I think it builds toughness. The one thing they could do would be to make sure if a team is playing back-to-back then their opponent is also. But it's just the regular season, so it shouldn't matter.

Raph12
11-29-2009, 04:30 PM
No, nobody should use it as an excuse.

jetsfan28
11-29-2009, 04:33 PM
It's not just playing back to back though. Kobe Bryant, for example, has played 1100 games if you count playoffs, plus he practices hours a day, plus he's played in the olympics, plus preseason, etc. All of that accumulates, and makes it difficult to play back to back days. It's not like it's an isolated thing, it adds up and makes it very difficult to recover.



It's like a pitcher in baseball. Most pitchers can go back to back days during some random week in the middle of May. But by the end of the year when they're more tired, or as they get older, they can't as mch anymore. And the way NBA players constantly train and constantly play, it's even more extreme.

Wilson
11-29-2009, 04:37 PM
It's not just playing back to back though. Kobe Bryant, for example, has played 1100 games if you count playoffs, plus he practices hours a day, plus he's played in the olympics, plus preseason, etc. All of that accumulates, and makes it difficult to play back to back days. It's not like it's an isolated thing, it adds up and makes it very difficult to recover.



It's like a pitcher in baseball. Most pitchers can go back to back days during some random week in the middle of May. But by the end of the year when they're more tired, or as they get older, they can't as mch anymore. And the way NBA players constantly train and constantly play, it's even more extreme.

That's a good point, I hadn't thought about that. Good answer.

ko8e24
11-29-2009, 04:58 PM
but ive rarely seen kobe get affected by back-to-back games. maybe some of the younger guys on the squad, but not kobe. even when he was in his early 20s he was okay with the back-to-back situations (but then again, you had shaq to take upon majority of the load, so that helped)

gcoll
11-29-2009, 05:05 PM
These are world class athletes, and they should be able to play 40 mins two nights in a row
They can. But they're playing against another world class athlete who had the previous day off.

It basically comes down to this. Do you think playing basketball makes you tired? If you deny that fact you can claim that back to backs do not matter.

Go_NUGGETS
11-29-2009, 05:06 PM
Why does FACTS have to be described as EXCUSES?????


...Having to sleep on a plane after a game and suddenly wake up when you arrive early in the morning to the next destination....Then having to get up a few hours later for the scheduled shoot arounds and team prep....It's not EXCUSES, it's FACT that it creates fatigue in comparison to the well rested team, and the more you progress through the season the likely you are to not play to your full potential.

Go_NUGGETS
11-29-2009, 05:08 PM
....Plus you gotta consider the fact that the players dont get time to rest and heal injuries that may have occured on the first night of a back-to-back...Lots of things you need to consider when shedding light on this subject.

Bashna
11-29-2009, 05:12 PM
Why does FACTS have to be described as EXCUSES?????


...Having to sleep on a plane after a game and suddenly wake up when you arrive early in the morning to the next destination....Then having to get up a few hours later for the scheduled shoot arounds and team prep....It's not EXCUSES, it's FACT that it creates fatigue in comparison to the well rested team, and the more you progress through the season the likely you are to not play to your full potential.

+1.

Also, just because they're world class athletes doesn't mean their bodies dont have wear and tear, playing basketball, or any sport for that matter takes a toll on your body, ligaments, muscle, tissue, etc, and even if you train, practice, prep, and take care of yourself to the fullest, playing 40 minutes of basketball, not counting the practices and shoot-arounds is harsh on your bones and body. That's not taking into account the travel time, your body goes through carcadian rythm's (sleeping cycles and such) and when this is distorted (play a game until 10pm est get on plane, fly 6 hours, sleep on the plane, or not, get home, sleep, wake up early for practice) that distorts your psyche and sleeping patterns that have tons of effects on your mind and body. Not to say that you should use Back-to-backs as an excuse to lose the 2nd game, but to say there are no effects is idiotic.

gcoll
11-29-2009, 05:13 PM
....Plus you gotta consider the fact that the players dont get time to rest and heal injuries that may have occured on the first night of a back-to-back...Lots of things you need to consider when shedding light on this subject.

The thing I don't understand about the "shut up! back to backs don't matter" people is...how do they justify substitutions during a game?

Using their "these are world class athletes" reasoning, surely they should be able to play an entire game of basketball.

Wilson
11-29-2009, 05:24 PM
The thing I don't understand about the "shut up! back to backs don't matter" people is...how do they justify substitutions during a game?

Using their "these are world class athletes" reasoning, surely they should be able to play an entire game of basketball.

I think most players in the league could play a full 48 minutes. Obviously you don't want them playing that in every game because they would wear down during an 82 game season.

However there's a difference in playing 48 minutes per night over a full season, than playing in between 30 and 40 minutes on consecutive nights.

Jetsfan gave a good answer though. Playing in on consecutive nights will magnify any injuries or fatigue you might have, especially late in the season.

gcoll
11-29-2009, 05:33 PM
Speaking of back to backs...the Suns have a bunch of tough back to backs coming up.

Play the Cavs on the second night of a back to back in Cleveland.

Play the Lakers on the second night of a back to back in LA.

Play the Nuggets on the second night of a back to back in Denver. (one night after playing the Magic)

Bashna
11-29-2009, 05:37 PM
Speaking of back to backs...the Suns have a bunch of tough back to backs coming up.

Play the Cavs on the second night of a back to back in Cleveland.

Play the Lakers on the second night of a back to back in LA.

Play the Nuggets on the second night of a back to back in Denver. (one night after playing the Magic)

not to mention 2/3 of our loses were to Orlando and LA on back-to-backs...

The Suns play uptempo so it's a bit harsher for them considering back-to-backs, but thats the toll you take when you run like that...

But honestly. back-to-backs should be less for excuses and more managed, i wish the NBA would make it so there were less back-to-backs, especially traveling back to backs, but, what can you do...

gcoll
11-29-2009, 05:39 PM
^It's not just the uptempo. It's the fact that our uptempo style relies on Steve Nash, who isn't a spring chicken.

Raph12
11-29-2009, 05:40 PM
Tonight the Orlando Magic will play their fourth game in five nights, we will see how they look on both ends, there is one variable though... they are playing against the Knicks.

Bishnoff
11-29-2009, 05:41 PM
I hate them and wish they were abolished. Other team sports (such as Soccer, Aussie Rules Football) get at least 4 days rest in between games. Some may say that Basketball is less demanding physically but still, I believe that at least 1 full days rest is merited.

DenButsu
11-29-2009, 09:08 PM
Here is a complete 2009-10 season schedule analysis (hoopsworld (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=13508)).

I've ordered it by number of b2bs.


HOME Road
Team +4 +5 +6 Long +4 +5 +6 Long B2Bs Long Month Nat TV
Charlotte Bobcats 2 2 1 6 2 1 1 6 23 17-Mar 4
Chicago Bulls 2 1 1 6 3 2 2 7 23 15 - Dec/Jan/Mar 18
Detroit Pistons 1 1 1 6 2 0 0 4 23 15-Dec/Mar 9
Atlanta Hawks 2 0 0 4 3 0 0 4 22 15 - Nov/Jan/Mar 13
Denver Nuggets 1 0 0 4 4 2 1 6 22 16-Mar 29
Houston Rockets 2 1 1 6 2 0 0 4 22 16-Dec/Mar 7
Indiana Pacers 1 0 0 4 3 0 0 4 22 17-Jan 3
Los Angeles Clippers 4 1 1 6 3 3 2 8 22 16-Mar 13
Milwaukee Bucks 3 2 1 6 2 1 1 6 22 15-Jan/Mar 1
New Jersey Nets 3 1 1 7 4 1 0 5 21 16-Mar 2
Toronto Raptors 1 0 0 4 2 0 0 4 21 16-Nov/Mar 2
Washington Wizards 1 1 1 6 2 0 0 4 21 16-Jan/Mar 16
Dallas Mavericks 2 0 0 2 3 1 0 5 20 15 - Nov/Jan/Mar 20
Golden State Warriors 3 2 2 7 5 3 0 5 20 16-Mar 11
Los Angeles Lakers 3 2 1 6 3 3 1 8 20 17-Jan 25
Memphis Grizzlies 1 0 0 4 3 2 0 5 20 16-Nov 2
Minnesota Timberwolves 1 0 0 4 2 0 0 4 20 16-Dec/Jan 2
Philadelphia 76ers 1 1 0 5 3 1 1 6 20 17-Mar 9
Phoenix Suns 2 1 1 7 5 2 0 5 20 16-Dec/Jan 25
Sacramento Kings 5 2 0 5 2 2 1 6 20 17-Mar 1
Orlando Magic 2 1 0 5 2 0 0 4 19 17-Jan 32
Portland Trail Blazers 3 1 0 5 5 2 0 5 19 16-Nov 24
Utah Jazz 2 1 1 6 4 1 0 5 19 17-Mar 21
Boston Celtics 1 1 1 6 2 1 0 5 18 17-Mar 32
Cleveland Cavaliers 1 1 1 7 2 1 0 5 18 17-Dec 29
Miami Heat 3 3 2 6 3 2 1 6 18 17-Jan 23
New York Knicks 3 2 0 5 2 2 0 5 18 16-Mar 10
Oklahoma City Thunder 4 1 0 5 1 0 0 4 18 16-Mar 3
San Antonio Spurs 3 1 1 6 2 1 1 8 17 17-Mar 28
New Orleans Hornets 2 1 0 5 2 1 0 5 16 17-Jan 16

DenButsu
11-29-2009, 09:09 PM
Tonight the Orlando Magic will play their fourth game in five nights, we will see how they look on both ends, there is one variable though... they are playing against the Knicks.

IIRC the average win rate for 4th game of 4-in-5s in extremely low. I think they're the toughest games to win in the NBA, especially if they're on the road.

Shady66
11-29-2009, 09:15 PM
I dont like them, it gives the other team an advantage (even though it is only a little)

Kakaroach
11-29-2009, 09:27 PM
I've never heard of players complaining about back-to-backs or using them as an excuse, but fans/commentators/analysts do.

thephoenixson28
11-29-2009, 09:43 PM
Its funny cuz we lose to the lakers on a back to back and they say no excuses, but they lost to the nuggets the next day they said it was cuz of a back to back.

Wilson
11-29-2009, 09:46 PM
Its funny cuz we lose to the lakers on a back to back and they say no excuses, but they lost to the nuggets the next day they said it was cuz of a back to back.

Some did, but there were also a number of Laker fans in the Nuggets forum after that game claiming the Lakers just got beaten up by the Nuggets, with no excuses.

thephoenixson28
11-29-2009, 09:55 PM
Some did, but there were also a number of Laker fans in the Nuggets forum after that game claiming the Lakers just got beaten up by the Nuggets, with no excuses. That's cuz they would have to eat there words. I wouldn't go back on my word if I said no excuses either. We all know the back to back had a affect on both teams

_KB24_
11-29-2009, 10:19 PM
I've never heard a player/coach use a "back-to-back" as an excuse for a loss. They may be fatigued, but who doesn't work in life? It seems like only fans use it as an excuse to help them cope with a difficult loss.

Aarick
11-29-2009, 10:26 PM
cant say im a fan of the back-to-back. i like it cos i get to see more basketball but you can see the players are fatigued. the problem is the travel. it shouldnt be too hard to have most back-to-backs at home. so you can finish one game go home sleep and be rested for the next game.

Storch
11-29-2009, 10:26 PM
no excuses unless you are a big man

iggypop123
11-29-2009, 10:38 PM
its not a big deal unless its with denver. they have the added advantage of the elevation. thats double advantage. but for most b2b means nothing, just didnt get to sleep alot thats it

ChiSox219
11-29-2009, 10:40 PM
but ive rarely seen kobe get affected by back-to-back games. maybe some of the younger guys on the squad, but not kobe. even when he was in his early 20s he was okay with the back-to-back situations (but then again, you had shaq to take upon majority of the load, so that helped)

Last year, Kobe shot under 43% on 0 days rest, all other times he shot almost 48%


Only way to understand it is to have to do it.

+1

jimbobjarree
11-29-2009, 10:43 PM
Jazz have always sucked in b2bs, never get the same intensity second time round. Surely the time when we lost in triple overtime to the Heat then played the Magic the following night would have played a big factor in the blowout though.

thephoenixson28
11-29-2009, 10:50 PM
I've never heard a player/coach use a "back-to-back" as an excuse for a loss. They may be fatigued, but who doesn't work in life? It seems like only fans use it as an excuse to help them cope with a difficult loss. I heard a bunch of players/coach saying they hate back to backs.

_KB24_
11-29-2009, 11:11 PM
I heard a bunch of players/coach saying they hate back to backs.

Links?

Raph12
11-29-2009, 11:44 PM
IIRC the average win rate for 4th game of 4-in-5s in extremely low. I think they're the toughest games to win in the NBA, especially if they're on the road.

Well surprise surprise, the Magic win again, they also won in Atlanta on a b2b Thursday night... looks like the b2bs and road games just don't faze this team.

ChiSox219
11-29-2009, 11:54 PM
Well surprise surprise, the Magic win again, they also won in Atlanta on a b2b Thursday night... looks like the b2bs and road games just don't faze this team.

They usually don't faze, or have minimal impact on the best teams in the league, especially those that have depth like the Magic.

Raph12
11-29-2009, 11:59 PM
They usually don't faze, or have minimal impact on the best teams in the league, especially those that have depth like the Magic.

True, but for the record, it was the core of Lewis (26pts), Howard (24pts) and Carter (23pts) carrying most of the load offensively.

ChiSox219
11-30-2009, 12:08 AM
True, but for the record, it was the core of Lewis (26pts), Howard (24pts) and Carter (23pts) carrying most of the load offensively.

True, but I think a core consisting of three all-stars sharing the load + quality bench players will have more success on no rest than a team like the Heat or Cavs, with one guy + role players.

Raph12
11-30-2009, 02:06 AM
True, but I think a core consisting of three all-stars sharing the load + quality bench players will have more success on no rest than a team like the Heat or Cavs, with one guy + role players.

Agreed, just saying that the better players in the league aren't fazed by any of these variables.