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View Full Version : Whats more important opp. field goal % or points allowed?



Kevj77
11-29-2009, 01:24 AM
What makes a really great D? Is it points allowed or opp. field goal percentage? Pace of a teams offense can effect how many points a team allows. I would pick opp. field goal%.

Thoughts?

Shady66
11-29-2009, 01:27 AM
I think its a bit of both, but i think opp field goal is most important. Someone like the Suns could have a play good defence and make their opponents shoot 45 %, but they can stillo score a lot of points because the suns play a faster style. Just an example :P

BlondeBomber41
11-29-2009, 01:28 AM
FG% obviously. Points allowed could have alot to do with tempo and teams putting in garbage points if you are a high scoring team yourself and blowing them out.

Vinny642
11-29-2009, 01:32 AM
FG% IMO too

IDB Josh M
11-29-2009, 01:32 AM
Points allowed. The opponents can have a terrible FG%, but if they have a ton of offensive rebounds and second chance points, shooting poorly from the floor is moot.

ManRam
11-29-2009, 01:35 AM
Points per 100 possessions is easily the best way to evaluate team defense. It eliminates pace almost completely, and FG% is heavily tied into it.

Kevj77
11-29-2009, 01:38 AM
Thats a good point IDB. You can hold a team to a low field goal %, but you still need to board. I agree with Shady though that a team could play good defense and still allow a lot of points because of pace and not get credit for playing good D.

BlondeBomber41
11-29-2009, 01:39 AM
Points allowed. The opponents can have a terrible FG%, but if they have a ton of offensive rebounds and second chance points, shooting poorly from the floor is moot.

If the other team is getting a ton of extra points off of put backs and second chance points then they wont have a bad FG% most of the time... so its still FG% that is the better indication.

_KB24_
11-29-2009, 01:39 AM
Points Allowed.

Good example IDB

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-29-2009, 01:41 AM
FG%

Next question

Kyben36
11-29-2009, 01:42 AM
FG% IMO, I know, there is the fact about offensive rebounds, but I think that if you shoot a higher % then the other team, most of the time, you will win, even if they still score 100 points, you should get just about as many possesions and be able to convert them at a high rate.

ManRam
11-29-2009, 01:43 AM
Again, neither...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=defeff&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=upsell&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats%3fsort%3ddefeff%26seasonType%3d2%26leagu e%3dnba

Defensive efficiency, aka points per 100 possessions.

Kevj77
11-29-2009, 01:48 AM
Well Portland leads the league in point allowed and Lakers lead the league in opp. fielg goal %. Would anyone say they are better then Boston at D. I wouldn't, but Boston scores 4 more points a game then Portland.

BlondeBomber41
11-29-2009, 01:49 AM
Again, neither...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=defeff&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=upsell&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats%3fsort%3ddefeff%26seasonType%3d2%26leagu e%3dnba

Defensive efficiency, aka points per 100 possessions.

He didnt say what is the best way of telling, he said which is the best way of the two options.... so your way of doing it isn't an option. :no:

Raph12
11-29-2009, 01:50 AM
Defensive Rating: Points allowed per 100 possessions

Kevj77
11-29-2009, 01:53 AM
Again, neither...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=defeff&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=upsell&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats%3fsort%3ddefeff%26seasonType%3d2%26leagu e%3dnba

Defensive efficiency, aka points per 100 possessions.Thats new to me. Thanks, so it puts the teams I thought were good defensively were they should be. I knew Boston was a good D, Portland allows the least amount of points and the Lakers lead the league in opp. field goal%. I'm surprised that the Bobcats are that good at D.

_KB24_
11-29-2009, 01:54 AM
Wow, just answer the question. You big shots don't to bring other methods in, just answer the questions you Stephen A. Smiths.

BlondeBomber41
11-29-2009, 01:54 AM
Defensive Rating: Points allowed per 100 possessions

I guess the Charlotte Bobcats are the best defensive team in the NBA then. Who would of thought? :rolleyes:

Mavrix
11-29-2009, 01:57 AM
FG%

Next question

this

Teeboy1487
11-29-2009, 02:10 AM
I guess the Charlotte Bobcats are the best defensive team in the NBA then. Who would of thought? :rolleyes: Don't underestimate the bobcats. They are a good defensive team, but their offense is so bad. They have won 4 in a row I think. To the thread, I say Fg% should be number one in judging good defensive teams imo. Points allowed are skewered by a faster tempo.

Vinny642
11-29-2009, 02:12 AM
W's and L's?

ko8e24
11-29-2009, 02:19 AM
Per 100 possessions, but say u didn't have all the stats the comprise the "per 100 possessions" stuff, then u'd go with fg%

Kevj77
11-29-2009, 02:23 AM
Well judging by W and L the best defensive teams per 100 are doing very good Boston, LA, Portland, Magic, Cle, and Dallas are all top teams in the NBA. Defense matters no matter how many points you score.

shep33
11-29-2009, 02:28 AM
This is obvious, it's points allowed. If you hold your opponent to less points than any other team in the league, you'll be good. FG% doesn't really fully equate to points given up... what if a team shoots 40% from the floor, but the defensive team just hacks them allowing them freethrows. 2nd chance points aren't equated into field goal percentage either, if a team holds opponents to 40% shooting, but gets out rebounded on the offensive end, field goal % is gonna go down, but points are like more freethrows made are gonna go up.

But realistically, field goal% (defensively), and ppg allowed are highly correlated.

ko8e24
11-29-2009, 02:33 AM
Well judging by W and L the best defensive teams per 100 are doing very good Boston, LA, Portland, Magic, Cle, and Dallas are all top teams in the NBA. Defense matters no matter how many points you score.

portland is 12-7, and they are far from being a top team in the league. They too young, even with the veteran FA signing of Andre Miller.

Chronz
11-29-2009, 02:34 AM
I guess the Charlotte Bobcats are the best defensive team in the NBA then. Who would of thought? :rolleyes:

LOL Pretty much everyone when they added Tyson

Kevj77
11-29-2009, 02:42 AM
ko8e I'm a Lakers fan too, but Portland is a playoff team. Only one team a year can be the best. That doesn't mean other teams aren't good. I see Portland as a team of the future.

BlondeBomber41
11-29-2009, 02:47 AM
LOL Pretty much everyone when they added Tyson

and subtracted Emeka Okafor....

AllTheWay
11-29-2009, 02:51 AM
LOL Pretty much everyone when they added Tyson

Yeah, so outrageous with horrible defenders like Gerald Wallace and Tyson Chandler and a coach who has never even heard of defense in Larry Brown.

Chronz
11-29-2009, 03:03 AM
and subtracted Emeka Okafor....

Yea, hes really helped New Orleans defense. Hes a good defender but his lack of size and athletic ability hurt him in the Chandler comparison.

Raph12
11-29-2009, 03:04 AM
Yeah, so outrageous with horrible defenders like Gerald Wallace and Tyson Chandler and a coach who has never even heard of defense in Larry Brown.

I wonder if he's heard of "practise"?

IDB Josh M
11-29-2009, 03:14 AM
I wonder if he's heard of "practise"?

Yup, 23 times he's head of practice.

Iodine
11-29-2009, 03:18 AM
Neither.

Drating with an added infusion of rebounding percentage and of course having Gforce

DerekRE_3
11-29-2009, 04:14 AM
I guess the Charlotte Bobcats are the best defensive team in the NBA then. Who would of thought? :rolleyes:

They are at least a top 5 defensive team. They are 1st in points allowed and 2nd in opponents field goal percentage. Maybe you should watch them play before you assume they can't do anything.

rocky4104
11-29-2009, 04:18 AM
prob depends on the team - for the suns, fg % is more important than points allowed since the suns play a fast paced game, meaning more opportunities to shoot

BlondeBomber41
11-29-2009, 04:19 AM
Yeah, so outrageous with horrible defenders like Gerald Wallace and Tyson Chandler and a coach who has never even heard of defense in Larry Brown.

Lets not act like Tyson Chandler and his 24 MPG are a huge factor on the Bobcats defense.

AllTheWay
11-29-2009, 04:20 AM
Lets not act like Tyson Chandler and his 24 MPG are a huge factor on the Bobcats defense.

I would say half a game is a pretty damn big impact, it is half a friggin game.

DerekRE_3
11-29-2009, 04:24 AM
Lets not act like Tyson Chandler and his 24 MPG are a huge factor on the Bobcats defense.

Larry Brown is the biggest factor of the Bobcats defense. Felton is a very good perimeter defender. His opponents PER allowed last year was better than every single starting PG in the league. Gerald Wallace is a good defender, Stephen Jackson is when he wants to be, Tyson Chandler plays the pick and roll very well and can alter shots...the team can play defense. To say they can't is just ignorant.

abe_froman
11-29-2009, 04:27 AM
Lets not act like Tyson Chandler and his 24 MPG are a huge factor on the Bobcats defense.

tyson chandler's been pretty good defensively this year(so far),better than you give him credit for

Hellcrooner
11-29-2009, 05:31 AM
points per posession alowed

JasonJohnHorn
11-29-2009, 01:11 PM
FG% obviously.

FG% percentage is huge, but the two are equally important. It doesn't matter if you keep a team shooting 33% but give them second chances on every play by not working the boards. the question is flawed though because it doesn't make room for the rebounding question.

If a team shoots 33% for a game but get second chances and doesn't allow turnovers while the other team doesn't work the boards and get 12 turnovers for the game, well that's not going to win anybody a game, even if the defence keeps the opposition shooting 33%. Coupled with that your team has to shoot well as well, in order to capitalize on their defence.

If you look at the box scores and see who has more turnovers, more fouls and fewer offensive rebounds, that team lost 9 times out of 10 regardless of FG%.

FG%? Not such an obvious answer, but its teh question that is flawed because basketball isn't made up of just two stats, it is a web aspects; rebounding and turnovers, defence and offence, fouls and FT%. It doesn't matter if you keep somebody under 40% or not if you put them on the line, commit turnovers and let them grab offensive rebounds left and right.

Chronz
11-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Lets not act like Tyson Chandler and his 24 MPG are a huge factor on the Bobcats defense.
Isnt his backup Diop?

Iodine
11-29-2009, 01:40 PM
Isnt his backup Diop?

Nazr mohammed And D Brown get burn before Diop

theuuord
11-29-2009, 01:42 PM
um, neither. points allowed is marred by pace and fg% is marred by type of shots taken.

you can allow a team to shoot 40% and have the best fg% defense in the league, but if all of those are threes and they're good from the line, you'll have the least efficient defense in the league at the same time.

there are four main factors that go into defense: not allowing efficient shooting (eFG%), controlling the glass (on defense, that's DRB%), causing turnovers (TOV%), and limiting opponent free throws (FT/FGA%). if you can play in those four factors at an above average level, you will have a great defense.

Iodine
11-29-2009, 01:43 PM
um, neither. points allowed is marred by pace and fg% is marred by type of shots taken.

you can allow a team to shoot 40% and have the best fg% defense in the league, but if all of those are threes and they're good from the line, you'll have the least efficient defense in the league at the same time.

there are four main factors that go into defense: not allowing efficient shooting (eFG%), controlling the glass (on defense, that's DRB%), causing turnovers (TOV%), and limiting opponent free throws (FT/FGA%). if you can play in those four factors at an above average level, you will have a great defense.

What did I tell you about using logic on PSD?

theuuord
11-29-2009, 01:45 PM
What did I tell you about using logic on PSD?

i'm a sucker for punishment

Iodine
11-29-2009, 01:47 PM
i'm a sucker for punishment

Go listen to slaughterhouse

Its my new plan since you like ****ing up and getting punished ill tell you to listen to musical sex instead of ALL DA WEI TURNT AWP

theuuord
11-29-2009, 01:47 PM
Go listen to slaughterhouse

Its my new plan since you like ****ing up and getting punished ill tell you to listen to musical sex instead of ALL DA WEI TURNT AWP

the slaughterhouse album was boringly effective.

Iodine
11-29-2009, 01:49 PM
the slaughterhouse album was boringly effective.

If I didnt know you were lying about one of the best albums of the year I would ***** slap you

theuuord
11-29-2009, 01:54 PM
If I didnt know you were lying about one of the best albums of the year I would ***** slap you

lol, dude, it was four emcees that everyone knew could rap their ***** off rapping their ***** off over mostly boring production.

if you liked the idea of slaughterhouse already, you'd like the album. if you didn't, the album wouldn't convince you. it was dope, but predictable dope. not one of my favorite albums of the year though. not nearly cohesive enough.

theuuord
11-29-2009, 01:54 PM
hell the slaughterhouse mixtape > the slaughterhouse album. move on is the best song they've done.

Iodine
11-29-2009, 01:58 PM
hell the slaughterhouse mixtape > the slaughterhouse album. move on is the best song they've done.

:(

It might be the fact that nothing else half decent has come out since DOOM's

theuuord
11-29-2009, 02:01 PM
:(

It might be the fact that nothing else half decent has come out since DOOM's

lol i'm so sick of doom.

Iodine
11-29-2009, 02:03 PM
lol i'm so sick of doom.

Stop being such a ****ing negative nancy. It could be worse

We could not be getting a brief reprive from WEEZY F BEI-B

theuuord
11-29-2009, 02:05 PM
Stop being such a ****ing negative nancy. It could be worse

We could not be getting a brief reprive from WEEZY F BEI-B

i'd rather listen to a drugged out workaholic like weezy than a lazy mumbler who can't even show up to his own shows like doom has become.

Iodine
11-29-2009, 02:08 PM
i'd rather listen to a drugged out workaholic like weezy than a lazy mumbler who can't even show up to his own shows like doom has become.

your such a negative nancy. next your going to tell me you dont love ante up (if you do My spirits will be crushed

theuuord
11-29-2009, 02:15 PM
your such a negative nancy. next your going to tell me you dont love ante up (if you do My spirits will be crushed

lol of course i love ante up.
and i'm not a negative nancy! how dare you

DerekRE_3
11-29-2009, 02:56 PM
Isnt his backup Diop?

Nazr Mohammed has taken all of Diop's minutes. He's been playing very well on both offense and defense.

Chronz
11-30-2009, 12:15 AM
The guy didnt want to be bombarded by advanced stats, he was just asking a simple question. Which has a higher correlation with winning. The answer is FG%, eFG% trumps that and is probably the most important of the 4 factors Id assume.


Nazr Mohammed has taken all of Diop's minutes. He's been playing very well on both offense and defense.
Holy **** you werent joking bout Nazr, is that why Tysons minutes are down or has it been his own personal struggles offensively?

DerekRE_3
11-30-2009, 12:24 AM
The guy didnt want to be bombarded by advanced stats, he was just asking a simple question. Which has a higher correlation with winning. The answer is FG%, eFG% trumps that and is probably the most important of the 4 factors Id assume.


Holy **** you werent joking bout Nazr, is that why Tysons minutes are down or has it been his own personal struggles offensively?

It's a number of things. Chandler has gotten into foul trouble early, he's had back spasms, he was still recovering from his ankle surgery to start the year, plus Nazr has been playing great so far this year.

BkOriginalOne
11-30-2009, 12:35 AM
Fg%